Dr. J Jackson-Beckham

Pop the top off your favorite brew and settle in for an enlightening episode of The DC Beer Show, as hosts Michael Stein, Brandy Holder, and Jacob Berg take you on another craft beer journey.

We've got all the events coming up in DMV, but today's focus is on the incomparable Dr. J. Jackson-Beckham. In this special session, Mike Stein dives deep into the world of craft beer through the lens of academia, sustainability, and inclusivity. You're in for a treat as Dr. J. shares her insights and refreshingly candid perspective on the industry. 

She enlightens us on the finer points of gardening and non-beer libations and takes them on a journey through the cultural significance of sustainability in beer-making. She and Mike examine the evolution of the industry and the symbiotic relationship between localism, environmental stewardship, and social responsibility. Dr. Beckham's eye-opening interview reveals that beer is more than just a beverage; it's a catalyst for change and a mirror of societal values.

Throughout this thought-provoking episode, the underlying current is Dr. Beckham's contributions to the dialogue on equity within the beer community, offering an inspiring glance at how one can influence meaningful conversations both inside and outside traditional academic realms.

Then, it's time to wind down with reflections on beer fact Fridays and musings from Josh Chapman on the quality and ethos that make the brewing community genuinely exceptional. 

Whether you're a casual enthusiast, a seasoned beer sommelier, or somewhere in between, this episode will leave you enlightened and possibly even inspired to sow the seeds of sustainability in your backyard — both literally and metaphorically. So, let's raise our glasses to Dr. J. Jackson Beckham and another insightful episode of The DC Beer Show — where every conversation is fermented to perfection. Cheers!

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Creators & Guests

Host

Brandy Holder

This southern girl got a late start in the beer world, but with such a bold and intoxicating personality behind the name, booze was destined to be a part of her endeavors.

Host

Jacob Berg

Jake’s beer education began when his dad brought home a 6-pack of Brooklyn Lager in the mid-90s. It was love at first sip.

Host

Mike Stein

Michael Stein is President of Lost Lagers, Washington, DC’s premier beverage research firm. His historic beers have been served at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of American History and the Polish Ambassador’s residence.

Producer

Richard Fawal

President of DC Beer Media LLC and Publisher of DCBeer.com and The DC Beer Show

What is The DC Beer Show?

The official podcast of DCBeer.com! This is a show about breweries: the business, the beer, the craftspeople who run them and the drinkers who love them. Join us as we speak with brewers, brewery owners, and all kinds of folks involved in the craft beer scene.

Jacob Berg [00:00:05]:
Welcome everyone to the DC Beer Show. We are at DC Beer across social media. Brandy with the good hair. What are you drinking tonight?

Brandy Holder [00:00:18]:
Oh, Jake. I love you. Jake is joking because hair is not good. Hair has been in hat for days. Jake, what have I not consumed since I got off work today? It was a long day today. So I opened this smoked Hellas from Schilling when I first got home. I shared that with the partner. That was delish.

Brandy Holder [00:00:40]:
And then Jerry of Share A Pint Hey, Jerry. I know you're not on Instagram, but I know you're gonna hear this. Hey, Jerry. What's up? He brought to the last beer share this Ein stock doppelbock from from Einstock Olgert Olgert, and it is delicious.

Jacob Berg [00:00:58]:
Heck, yeah. I love

Brandy Holder [00:00:58]:
that one.

Jacob Berg [00:00:59]:
Icelandic beer worldwide.

Brandy Holder [00:01:01]:
Yeah. Thanks, Jerry. That was very I thoroughly enjoyed that. And then I said, fuck it. And I made a, a Negroni with, rest in peace, District Maid. Hey, Alex. Mike Stein, what are you drinking?

Michael Stein [00:01:15]:
Well, in my stein, technically a Tubinger, I am having the Czech style Dark Lager from Wayfinder Secret secret. It's not a secret that this Czech style dark lager is absolutely delicious. In my humble opinion, of the I think it's half a dozen I think it was 6 beers that just came into town from Wayfinder, which is originally brewed in Portland, Oregon, that this secret secret, Czech style dark lager is the best. Completely biased, being the son of a man born in Czechia, currently seeking dual citizenship. Totally biased for the Czech style dark lager, but it's a dark lager. It's dynamite. Mister Berg, Jacob Scoops Berg, if you will. What are you drinking this evening?

Jacob Berg [00:02:14]:
Just shout out to Wayfinder. I believe that if you're making a cold IPA and you're unsure of where to turn, their witchy brew really is sort of like the gold standard in cold IPA. It's not just an India pale lager or hoppy lager. There's a process behind it. It's very cool that we get Wayfinder now. We are awash with good lager. Right? We got Live Oak. We got that drop of notch.

Jacob Berg [00:02:39]:
Now we got Dovetail. We got Wayfinder. Happy, happy. Anyway, speaking of lager, I've got started today with dinner, a lawnmower beer considering that I just had to mow my lawn in March, which I'm not terribly thrilled about. New Allagash, spring summer seasonal surf house. It is the sticker, you know, like a Czech style light lager. They hit it with a lot of citrusy hops. I wanna say that it's a lemon drop hop, but it's not really.

Jacob Berg [00:03:14]:
It's probably something more like Calista, but it's super citrusy, super lemony, really nice, easy drinking. Then in Brookland, where I live and near where Brandy lives, there's a Norwuz Persian New Year Festival every year. And I just randomly got to the metro, saw people partying, figured, hey. I'll swing through. And lo and behold, what were they drinking But New Day IPA from Back Home Brewing, a contract based beer brewed in Staten Island, hopefully soon, a brick and mortar location in Brunswick, New York. Zara, the founder, the brewer, the owner of Back Home was in Brookland selling cans. And so I've got here this is a tax purposes alert. She handed me a 4 pack for a sample.

Jacob Berg [00:04:10]:
Thank you, Zara. Back Home New Day IPA, a hazy IPA with apple and sumac, traditional Persian New Year foods. Sumac's kinda lemony. You don't really, really get it because hops can be lemony. The apple is there. Anyway, 7%, a lovely beer. Look forward to better beer stores in the area. Alright.

Jacob Berg [00:04:33]:
We got a bunch of stuff going on. First and foremost is, Birch and Barley is usually closed on Tuesday, but they're gonna be open on Tuesday, 26th. Brandy, why is that?

Brandy Holder [00:04:47]:
Well, I was hoping you'd bring that up, Jake. So I'm super jazzed. I miss the brewers brunch at Birch and Barley back you know, right the day after Savor. I miss that. I miss that so much. And since I have been curating, coordinating this this women's panel at Other Half, which is has already happened because this comes out on Friday. So happened last night. Hopefully, it was great.

Brandy Holder [00:05:13]:
I was like, I'm gonna go all out for women's month. So I reached out to Greg, and I was like, hey, what do you think about this? He was like, hell, yeah. Let's do it. At Birch and Barley, Tuesday, 26th, we will be having a beer pairing dinner. The menu looks incredible. It's a 4 course dinner. And, Megan and Anne from Lost Gen and Bonnie from Wheatland Spring will be there. And I have been so jazzed because I wanted to bring together Anne from Lost Gen and Bonnie from Wheatland Spring.

Brandy Holder [00:05:45]:
They'd never even met, apparently. And because I've I'm manifesting a collaboration between the 2 breweries. I'm manifesting it so hard to the point where I was like, hey, let's do a beer dinner. So I'm so grateful and thankful, for all of this, and I'm so excited. It's gonna be delicious. So I hope you guys come. Come to Birch & Barley on on Tuesday. I'm jazzed.

Michael Stein [00:06:09]:
Well, Brandy, if I'm not mistaken, the dinner is supporting excellence in the industry. And if I were to paraphrase and steal a page from Chaka Khan's playbook, I would say ain't nobody does it better than you, DC beer co owner, Brandy. So Thank you. Shout out to Wheatland Springs and of course, Lost Generation. And I have to say, despite getting close to or maybe even at or above 10,000 breweries in the US right now, With Lost Generation being one of the newest breweries in DC, we are constantly reminded how good their beer quality is. And I really feel like they've had others step up their game. We've noticed a wonderful increase in the beer quality at City State. We had our share at Hellbender.

Michael Stein [00:07:01]:
I had not one but 2 absolutely dynamite lagers at Hellbender, so shout out to our old friends, Ben and LT. So we're really excited for beer excellence. Outside of beer excellence at Church Key on Tuesday, what else are we looking forward to as we cruise? Just absolutely charged through women's history month.

Brandy Holder [00:07:23]:
I'm excited because, you know, I know you've heard me speak of this, but the women's panel is a huge deal for me. I've been so overly, you know, excited and chill bumps constantly just thinking about it. But, you know, the bearded godmother, whom we've recently had on, is one of the panelists. And she's visiting always all the way from Georgia because I really love that she gives all these beer facts and comes in as in a new way to the social media plat platform, the education of beer. And because she's visiting, I wanted her to have a legit DMV visit. So we are heading out to Virginia on Saturday. So tomorrow, if if you're listening to this, we'll be at Wheatland Spring from 12 to 2 and at Dynasty. Shout out to Dynasty.

Brandy Holder [00:08:12]:
Love you, Favio and Travis and Lauren and Ramon. So we're gonna be out there, and then I gotta drop her off at the mayor airport. So if you're out that way, we're we wanna give Virginia love too because I know we always stay in the in the DC, in the district. So, come hang out. And then after after next week, hopefully, things start to calm down for me a little bit. But I'm looking forward to our beer share on National Beer Day at Third Hill. We haven't been to Third Hill for an event yet, so I'm excited. Are you guys gonna show up maybe, or you have other big plans for National Beer Day?

Jacob Berg [00:08:47]:
I mean, I live every day like it's National Beer Day, but I will

Brandy Holder [00:08:51]:
Amen, Jacob.

Jacob Berg [00:08:52]:
Yeah. But I will be at Third Hill.

Michael Stein [00:08:55]:
But there's only this day with the legislative significance since your omnibus to make everyday beer day has failed in in the in the DC Council, editor burg. Alright. All kidding aside, fresh jokes aside, what else are we looking at? We have the beer share coming up at 3rd Hill. Super, super excited for that. What else is going on in the next few days, weeks, even even into April?

Jacob Berg [00:09:23]:
The window for early bird tickets to the Maryland Brewers Festival is closing, so you should act soon on that. Perhaps as soon as you're listening to this, smash that pause button. That is going to be May 11th over at Caroll Creek. It always looks lovely. That's why Fox 5 puts it on like their, like, late night weather cam. You can see the water sparkle off the creek. They keep adding breweries. There are a host of new breweries popping up, places I haven't been, like RAK, Random Acts of Kindness, right on the creek.

Jacob Berg [00:09:56]:
I believe that's an ex Sapwood Brewer striking out on their own over there. Sapwood makes good beers. He made beers at Sapwood. Ergo, I think he's probably a pretty good brewer. So very interested to see, how that shakes out. We also have another DC Brau heavy metal collaboration, another darkest hour beer. I know that Mike Stein and I recall, Savor the Swill, the brow darkest hour Hellas. There's going to be a slightly overhopped amber.

Jacob Berg [00:10:29]:
And so if you're a fan of Cap City's RIP, although it's being brewed in Atlas, amber waves, maybe this is gonna be something, coming up April 6th release at blackhatblackhat.

Michael Stein [00:10:42]:
Yeah. So we love amber ales because we're old school like that. We also love GoGo and DC hardcore. But, yeah, I was just talking to Meth Gunasingh, who's a brewer at Atlas Brew Works, and he had just finished up a batch of Amber Waves Ale, which was the beer that was made in DC's first brewery since the the last one closed in 1956, that's Capital City Brewing. So those beers are actually coming out. If you go to Capital City, they have a Kolsch and an Amber, and those beers are actually coming from Atlas, who's done a bang up job on those. They've now got the GABF hardware to prove it with their stout, but we love the old. And we also wanna usher in the new.

Michael Stein [00:11:22]:
You know, we're in an age of all these closures, but we're pumped. New breweries are still coming online. Brewers who worked for their old brewery now opened a new brewery, and we wanna see that circulation continue. We wanna see the blood pumping and the blood flowing and new things going.

Brandy Holder [00:11:38]:
Before we finish off March, I wanna give so much love. I know I've been giving love. We always give love. But to all the women in beer, it's been an incredible month for myself. But just don't let, you know, your feelings start to simmer. Just keep supporting and keeping awesome, and, keep finding ways to help other people. I do hope before we kick off April that I will see everybody next Wednesday, the day after the dinner, the pairing dinner. I'm gonna be so tired, so you gotta come keep me awake.

Brandy Holder [00:12:16]:
But we're gonna be at the Solace at the navy yard. So we're gonna have a all night happy hour. Super shout out to Solace for giving us a huge discount to our group. We'll be there from 5:30 until, I don't know, 9:30, 10. Who knows? And, they're giving us 25% off of our tabs all night, like like industry folks. So come on out. Don't let it go to waste, and, I can't wait to cheers with everybody.

Jacob Berg [00:12:43]:
And I've seen the weather forecast already for next Wednesday, and I hear it's partly cloudy

Brandy Holder [00:12:50]:
Oh. With a chance of cops. Oh. I

Michael Stein [00:12:53]:
don't know. I'll play

Brandy Holder [00:12:55]:
I'll play south.

Michael Stein [00:12:57]:
Jake, you might you might have taken some of my crazy pills on the water on the waterfront.

Brandy Holder [00:13:04]:
We're just gonna keep, you know, crushing the solace puns.

Michael Stein [00:13:08]:
No. We love it. Brandy, I love that you're treating March, like snallygaster week. You're just back to back to back. I love it. Keeping that fire burning, keeping the lights just cranking. We'd love to see it. So come see us at Solace in Navy Yard, a wonderful little location there, you know, a stone's throw from Atlas Navy Yard and then Blue Jacket further down the strip, towards

Brandy Holder [00:13:33]:
It's really pretty there. Like, it's huge. And it looks out on the water. So, I mean, it's I mean, yeah. I love that place.

Michael Stein [00:13:41]:
Off the water if we truly happy hour into the wee hours. But we'll see. Regardless, it's a great deal. Yet another reason you should report, you should support DC beer on Patreon. We love to see it when new supporters come in. And a massive thank you to everybody who's already supporting the DC Beer Show and all the work we do at DC Beer Media on Patreon.

Brandy Holder [00:14:04]:
I can't wait to, you know, reflect on meeting Doctor J Jackson Beckham because she is a role model, an icon, really, in the beer industry in the in this world that we live in. And, you know, when I announce the panelist to all the other panelists, they're like, holy crap. Doctor Jay's coming. Oh my god. I get to meet Doctor J. Like, all the other women on the panel, they're like, oh my god. Oh my even, you know, Matt Splein, the GM of other half, his one of his bosses in New York was like, oh my god. You got Doctor J? That's huge.

Brandy Holder [00:14:41]:
So I'm so thankful, and I feel honored to, share the, quote, unquote, stage with Doctor J. And, I can't wait to hear more from her.

Michael Stein [00:14:51]:
Doctor J. Jackson Beckham, thank you so much for joining us on the DC Beer Show.

Michael Stein [00:14:57]:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Mike.

Michael Stein [00:14:59]:
Yeah. It's my pleasure. You are a very important person in the beer world, not just because me, some some person says that, but because people whose work I respect so much more than me have said this expressly. You wear many hats. You have titles with one of the, biggest, trade firms in the beer world, but you're not coming to us as representative of that. Tonight, we're talking about some of the other hats you wear. I'm asking you to wear the hats of brewer, writer and recovering academic. So these hats you wear I was going to say thank you so much for coming to speak about, the rise of authoritarianism and autocracy around the world, but that's actually a different podcast, that's not tonight's podcast.

Michael Stein [00:15:49]:
But first off, happy spring. What's growing in your garden right now or what do you plan to plant? What are you reaping? What are you sowing?

Michael Stein [00:15:58]:
I mean, we only have a half an hour, so that's tough. But I will say early spring stuff is out right now. And so lots of coal crops. Got our greens, cabbages, got a lot of peas out. I my peach tree is, like, in full bloom right now, so it's got beautiful, bright magenta blossoms on it right now. I've got 4 apple trees. They're just starting to show me a little bit of buds. Our fig tree is budding.

Michael Stein [00:16:29]:
My grapes are coming along. So we grow we grow a ton of, like, just, vegetable crop, but, the fruit is like fermentation fodder. So, it's exciting to see that stuff come back.

Michael Stein [00:16:44]:
That is super exciting, hearing about everything that is that is and will be. So I'm wondering, what beers, ciders, wines, teas, coffees, or other delicious, beverages are you currently enjoying these days?

Michael Stein [00:17:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. Such a good question. So, it's an interesting time to ask because I am currently taking a long hiatus from from alcohol. So I have been drinking a lot of, like, nonalcoholic stuff just to kind of, like I'm late to the party. Right? Like, I know it's huge. But getting, like, really into not only, like, any beers, which, you know, are just, like, exploding, but some things that people are doing with spirits. I'm I'm loving the stuff that's literally just, like, really herbaceous elixirs where they're just sort of like, this isn't supposed to mimic a a standard spirit.

Michael Stein [00:17:47]:
It's just like a thing we made up and it tastes amazing. That's been really exciting. I've been, like, reuniting with coffee quite a lot and, like, just sort of enjoying it. And it's interesting because, you know, I, I'm in the middle of going for level 3 Cicerone, passed the tasty portion, missed the written exam by 3 points the first time I took it, so I got a retake. But, you know, in doing so, I think I was just, like, so laser focused on beer, you know, as part of that preparation. And actually just spending some time, like, thoughtfully drinking other stuff is been, like, really, really, really helpful for me, as far as just expanding how I think about things, expanding, like, my sensory work, just getting better at, like, tasting things. And then, you know, the last sort of thing I did before my break started, I was at Cidercon, which is a conference I love. It's I think it's my 5th year at CiderCon.

Michael Stein [00:18:51]:
And I did a, a sensory seminar at CiderCon that was geared towards the certified pommelier certification. And, you know, a lot of the cider tasting strategy in Lexicon comes from wine, which, you know, it's different. It's a little bit more deductive tasting. And again, like, I just, like, learned, learned so much. And, like, anybody who's seen me at CiderCon knows I'm like a kid in a candy shop. I love new stuff. I love the fact that I know absolutely bubkus spelled apples. Like, I just I love that I'm such a noob.

Michael Stein [00:19:27]:
Like, it's so fun. And, that's so I would say, you know, of the semi recent things that I've been drinking on the alcohol front, you know, the the cider exploration always gets me excited every year.

Michael Stein [00:19:39]:
Cider is a wonderful beverage, and I think one that folks really embedded in the beer world are lucky to get out and bring a beginner's eye or a brand new pallet to it. You made a decision to leave academia and to pursue equity work full time. And you've had great success from this outsider's perspective. You've had great success doing that. But I'm wondering now reconciling, you know, you have all this expertise in academia, sometimes it's described the pathway of academia is a one way path. If you leave, it's more akin to a divorce than a career trajectory shift.

Michael Stein [00:20:22]:
You're 100% right that leaving academia is like a divorce. And, like, I'll be more I'll put a finer point on that. It's like a divorce where you really do love the other person, but like, everything is so utterly broken that you can't see a pathway forward. So it's just, like, gutting on every level. Like, if you could leave angry and burn it all down, it would be way easier. But, like, that's, unfortunately not what it's like a lot of the time or at least, wasn't like that for me. When I left higher ed, it it wasn't to stop being it was an academic. Right? It was to be a better academic.

Michael Stein [00:21:03]:
So, you know, I've I've tell everybody, like, my research is better now. You know, my teaching is more impactful now. My service, has far greater impact now. Right? So, like, ironically, like, I'm a far better academic outside of academia than I ever was inside. Like but I think the other piece to that, and certainly influencing my decision to go into sort of equity work, is higher ed has equity problems. Right? And and some of them are really serious, whether you're talking about, you know, how we how we use, well, not we anymore, how how adjunct labor is used and, and used in a hard exploitation sense. You know, we talk about the cost of college and accessibility. We talk about how debt is leveraged just to give people access.

Michael Stein [00:22:00]:
Like, there are a lot of problems that were hard for me to wake up every day and, sit well with. Right? Like, it felt it felt tough. So, you know, coming into a space where someone was like, hey. There's a lot going on in this particular industry, in this, you know, in this social formation, we don't really understand that. We need somebody to figure out what's happening. And I was like, oh, you need a researcher. Right? And then they were like, yeah. We need somebody who who can, like, help us develop some best practices and share them.

Michael Stein [00:22:37]:
And I'm like, oh, you need a teacher. You know? Like, I I say it sort of jokingly, but in a in a very real sense, like, I don't feel like there was any translation from my prior, skill set and profession into this one. I just felt like it just clarified everything that I already wanted to do, and I I got to do it in the place where I where it actually fit.

Michael Stein [00:23:01]:
So it's refreshing to hear there's not really a lot of, you know, transformative work or a shifting of of metrics that needed to happen to get you there. And and as we're looking forward sort of thinking ahead, I I wanna go back actually to a chapter in a in a book you wrote, which to my research very limited was published 10 years ago in in 2014. The book is called Food and Everyday Life and your chapter was Drinking Local, Sustainable Brewing, Alternative Food Networks and the Politics of Valuation. And I'm wondering if you feel that there's been significant changes made in the practices of sustainable brewing and alternative food networks.

Michael Stein [00:23:46]:
It's so amazing that you think about that. First of all, like, the fact that that was 10 years ago is wild. Like, I'm just like, oh my gosh. That's incredible. So that that chapter in particular was actually, it was actually a chapter from my doctoral dissertation that I published in this edited collection, the Food and Everyday Life collection. And I can't even it's hard to quantify how much has changed since then. Right? So, you know, I was looking at this the other day. I was trying to talk to someone about it is, like, when you write research about culture, right, or about history it's, like, literally still happening.

Michael Stein [00:24:39]:
So it's it's very much writing about a moving target. And that was certainly the case already 10 years ago or probably 12 years ago when I was actually writing this chapter that, like, it was, like, hard to write and be accurate because stuff was changing so fast then. But you know, in that chapter, what I really was getting at or looking at was that, you know, breweries were doing something different in terms of like how they generated value for the products and experiences they sold. And, for those of you who are, you know, wondering about that, you know, my dissertation work was is called a cultural economy. So it's sort of like an economic analysis, but it it kind of contends that, like, numbers are and supply and demand are not the only thing that drives, right, economic action and trends. Culture does too. And so in this chapter, I was looking specifically about about the culture of sustainability, locavoreism, you know, AFNs or alternative food networks. Right? And I was looking specifically at a couple of breweries who were, like, kind of trading on the value of sustainability and localism, but they were doing it super differently.

Michael Stein [00:26:03]:
Right? So, like, one brewery was very much about how local, like, hyperlocal it was. It literally had, like, a kind of a beer CSA where people could, like, order their beer and pick it up at the at the farmer's market that was across the street once a week. They had a foraging program so that people who, like, forage their food like, I got a pawpaw tree at home. I could forage my pawpaws and sell them to the brewery who would use them in a beer. Right? So, like, that was how they did sustainability. Contrasted it with a different brewery who had, like, just a super state of the art facility. Right? So, like, really great solar capacity, c02 recapture. Right? Like, they were doing all these other things, and it was so interesting to me that both of them were sort of trading on the logic of of sustainability, but, like, doing so ex very, very, very differently.

Michael Stein [00:26:59]:
What I've seen in the la you know, over the years since then is that, if those two examples 10 years ago sort of represented 2 ends, it's almost like the spectrum has entirely filled out. Right? So people have, you know, adopted any number of these different practices, you know, whether they're like some of it's about new technology and some of it's about sustainable reuse and some of it's about sourcing and ingredients. Right? Everybody's sort of taking on these these types of practices and building them into just what they do from the start. Like, it's not special anymore, which I think is really great. And maybe for me, you know, given the work I do, perhaps like the most significant thing is that there has been for some, this natural connection to social sustainability.

Michael Stein [00:27:54]:
Yeah. That's very well said, and it is remarkable to think about 2 ends of the spectrum full of different ways to hit that goal, you know, with different balance points and on the spectrum of, you know, social, people, people power and making sure that there's sustainability within our people from the from the HR, you know, back of house side to our customer service to selling direct to consumers, that whole spectrum. It's it's really quite remarkable. So when this episode comes out, we all we all hear you will have already paneled at other half, but, we just have to give a shout out to Latrice Harris, the Birie godmother, who is, you know, Brandy was just mentioning earlier in the episode about, bringing some educational newness to the social media space.

Michael Stein [00:28:56]:
I love Latrice. I love what she's doing. We we got in contact, like, very early in sort of the evolution of what she was doing. It was so obvious that, like, she's just like a bright charismatic spark, and that, like, she was gonna have a natural audience. You know, it helps that she's like like a really, really talented epidemiologist and educating the public is like what she does as a professional. So I I always laugh because I'm just like, I can I love it when I can see it? Right? Like, people who do this sort of educational work and, and turn it and kind of bring all that skill to the beer space. Like, it's beautiful and wonderful. And, she's she's such a kindred spirit, and, I'm super excited to hang with her.

Michael Stein [00:29:50]:
Well, Doctor J Jackson Beckham, thank you so much for joining us on the DC Beer Show. It's been a real pleasure speaking with you.

Michael Stein [00:29:58]:
You too, Mike.

Jacob Berg [00:29:59]:
Thank you, Doctor J Jackson Beckham, thank you, Mike Stein. Excellent interview. Alright, folks. You're gonna see a bunch of us in Virginia. Come tomorrow, even if the weather doesn't cooperate, we will. Parting thoughts from both of you.

Brandy Holder [00:30:15]:
I just wanna appear on a beer fact Friday. Wink wink, Latrice. That's Michael.

Jacob Berg [00:30:20]:
Beer fact Friday. It's Friday. It's the DC Beer Show. Alright. So, again, we're at DC Beer across social media. I wanna leave you all with parting thoughts from friend of the show, Josh Chapman of the late great Black Narrows, who says Zara is an absolute gem. And for me, back home beer is exactly what the hope for the future of beer looks like. A standard where the quality of the beer is only exceeded by the quality of the people and ethos behind it truly representing a time and a place.

Jacob Berg [00:30:56]:
Well said, Josh. Thank you, everybody, at DC Beer. We'll see you around. You all, everybody.

Brandy Holder [00:31:02]:
Oh, that was beautiful, Jake. I liked how you ended that. Well done, sir.