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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Jesse French
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man Podcast. My name's Jesse French. I am one of the hosts of this conversation and excited to welcome a good friend of mine named Adam Benjamin. Adam is a longtime friend of Restoration Project. I have known Adam, I think, for going on eight years, and excited to be able to welcome Adam into this conversation. And he is a trustworthy, a thoughtful, and a good man. And Adam.
Thanks for joining us.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, happy to be here. I'm excited to be with you and have a conversation today. Looking forward to you.
Jesse French
I've given this introduction a couple times so I I don't wanna wear it too thin, but before we actually dive into what we're talking about, people, this is the proof that restoration can be a real thing. Adam and I went to bitter rivals in college and and we're really good friends, people. And so like
Adam Benjamin
And God has done good work in your life based on your poor decisions. It's all right.
Jesse French
It is! There it is! This is why I'm friends with Adam, is that he he's spicy too, and you know, he can be wrong also. And so there's there's room in our relationship for for his incorrect assessment of allegiate merit. How's that? No, joking aside, man, thanks for joining us. Adam, we are in a series talking about fatherhood and trying to explore some different
Categories of how we father our kids to try to unpack that a little bit in some ways, hopefully, that enable us as dads to be to be more aware, to be more intentional in terms of those relationships with our kids and and how we're entering those. We've had some great conversations around our words and our presence. And I've loved those episodes that we've had. And today I want to have a conversation with you and kind of tee it up through.
Some ways that we maybe commonly can look at our fathering and some opportunities through this lens of like, man, when can we crush it as a dad? which is just a funny phrase. I feel like I'm, you know, middle school daughter saying that and I should like get an eye roll because that feels like more cool lingo probably than I should use. But when do we crush it? And then when do we miss it? And I think it's important to talk, just even before we dive into that, around like,
And I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the on some of this. We want to view it through the opportunities to to really take advantage of it and then when we can miss it. And this is done in a posture of honesty and not like get your act together scolding us as dads, you know, from like a shame based motivation. It more is just the heart of where are opportunities where we really can take advantage and if and if we're maybe not aware of it, when we can miss it. Does that make sense? Not like a man, you're gonna botch it, dad, if you know, you don't do those four things. That's not the heart at all.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, I think the purpose here is really to bring some awareness, right? Awareness in what's going on with our kids, in ourselves, things like that. And I think once we have that awareness then we can then maybe make choices or engage differently.
Jesse French
Totally. Totally. That's well, well said. So I just want to jump in. You and I had shared a couple of ideas beforehand. And I want to wonder about a couple of different spaces that I think give us some opportunity to be aware, as you just said, and allow us to be able to, when we are aware, to take advantage of how we step into that in some thoughtful ways. And so when when we think about this notion of man, how do I crush as the data or where can I miss it or where do I waste it? The first one that I wanted to
explore with you was this notion of focus time. Yeah. And, you know, the the phrase quality time, I think is one that is in our language, which I think is good. But I think there's something interesting about this notion of focus time, that there's a quality to that, a undistracted nature of that, that I think when we are aware of that, can absolutely take advantage and and really pour into our relationship with our kids. So curious how that idea for you lands as
thinking through as a dad, man, I I have an opportunity around this this ability to give undistracted focus time to our kids. How have you seen that play out in your own life, Adam?
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, I think what initially comes to mind is one of my strongest love languages myself is quality time. And so it has been a little bit natural in this area for me. But I think we've all heard the phrase like, How do you spell love to your kids? It's T I E. Yeah. And I think that's absolutely true, especially in a world that is really begging for our attention. It's really prioritizing where do we want our attention to go.
and there are lots of choices. There are the natural distractors of work and keeping a home moving forward, things like that. And then there are distractors that we choose. And so I think there are sometimes it might be easier to say what it's not, right? And focus time is not, you know, on and off your phone again, you know, trying to do five things at once and I guess acting as though you're paying attention to your kid when they're saying, Hey daddy, daddy, look at me. I think we all know when it's not.
might be a little harder to identify when it is, but being aware of the times when, that's actually not focused time right now.
Jesse French
Yeah.
Yeah. I think you bring up several good points. One of those is you just talked about look, there are things that will inherently pull our attention and our focus away from our kids that are kind of just natural in terms of like just maybe a normal part of living. But then there's also those things that we have more of a choice where we're we're choosing to divert our attention through. I think that's a helpful point, right? Because it I think it what it is doing is it's underlining, look, because of the
kind of the normal maybe arc and normal is a is a broad term, but like the normal arc of our life of navigating family, you know, home, job relationships already sort of puts a default mode of that requires a lot of our attention and a lot of our focus otherwise. So we're already at a at a challenge there. And then what you added onto that is then of course there are other things of which we can choose that then continue to divert our attention away. And so I think even just that piece is a helpful like, look the
Maybe the general trajectory is towards multitask, maybe towards less focus. And if we don't intentionally go about that, it it probably just stays in that natural inertia of multitask, let's get things done.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah. Yeah, and I think too with focus time, I maybe jump into this more than I want to, but sometimes the time is a to do list thing and a box to check rather than a relationship to engage and a relationship to enjoy. And at some time, maybe it's better than not, but at the same time I think how we show up, I think that's the focused part of the time. How we show up in that time is important.
Jesse French
Yeah, I think well said. Because our kids know they they have a sense of like it's my dad's present here. and so I think that is, I mean, to go through that that lens of like I think we crush it as a dad when we have the sense of like, man, I am willing to enter into this, not from the checkbox mentalities you're talking about, but to give as much of my attention and my presence to my child here as I'm able to. And and I think too
There's an element of this and maybe some of the things that we're gonna talk about that I'm okay using that language of crushing it because they're not like these focused time really is maybe not the splashy super visible outward behavior, right? To where like your friend or your neighbor's like, Man, Adam, like you just crushed it. You took your kid on some, you know, seven day backpack trip to Nepal, you know, right? Or something like that. But it's it's it's actually it's more hidden. There's just less of a
kind of showy nature to that, which I I think also then helps and gets at like the root of the motivation.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, and I think if the focus time is only the big things like you described, I actually don't think that's gonna land sufficiently over the time that you are raising your kiddos. I think the focus times are there's a lot of windshield time, right? We're in the car, taking them to whatever activity. I know that's been some of the more recent times I've had with my son have been in the car. Kind of the day to day, what does that look like? It doesn't have to be this big production.
It can be a fifteen minute thing, a five minute thing before bed, right? Yeah. It can be the little bits because over time that adds up and that instills in our kids, Hey, my dad, my dad cares about me, right?
Jesse French
That's right. That's right. I appreciate you saying that. I think that is so true and and hopefully that's good news to us as dads, right? Yeah.
Adam Benjamin
That's
smaller bar to reach, right? Mm-hmm.
Jesse French
Mm-hmm. But there's a again to your point originally, there's an awareness of there's a smaller bar, and yet the hopefully the the consistency of of offering that over and over is there. One of the friends that I was talking with about kind of before this conversation, just from a real practical standpoint, we were we were kicking this around and kind of around this focus time piece. And he's like, you know, I think just one really practical piece where we can take advantage and crush it as a dad is
When we're with our kids in the evening, like put your phone on, do not disturb. Yeah. And I'm like, that's that is so brilliant and it's so basic on one level, but also challenging probably for all of us. And so again, not not that that's the silver bullet, but it is such a practical thing that is moving us into, man, I can give my undivided and focused time to my kids, even in, you know, in an evening for for twenty minutes for more, right?
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, absolutely. As much as you can structure that, right? Some jobs may not enable that, but as much as you can really say, Hey, this is your time, right? There might even be structure around that saying, Hey kids, this actually isn't your time and I'm gonna focus over here so that when I'm done you do have my attention. I think there's some honoring in that, both of what we're responsible for and for the kids and and being really clear with them.
Jesse French
You bet. Yep. Yeah. Really well said. Okay. So we can crush this with our dad when we're willing and able to offer focus time to our kiddos. I think another one that I'd want to kick around with you was this notion of generosity. And maybe I'd just ask you, Adam, like even just initial reaction to you hearing kind of that word in the context of your relationship with your kids, like
What things come to mind? What kind of initial reaction to that concept comes up in you?
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, there are a couple of things. I think the first one is the default, at least that I experienced, is no, right? And I think that starts from a good place when our kids are, you know, just learning to walk and they're getting into everything. You're constantly saying no for their own good. Right. But our kids now, right there at the stage where that's no longer the case. And so shifting kind of the trajectory of can I shift more to a yes in whatever that might be? Can they have applesauce for dinner?
Yeah, I mean, sure, why not? Right. Random examples like that. But I guess the awareness there is shifting from we probably say no early on and shifting, hey, can we get more towards a yes? And then the other thing is, and it just dropped out of my mind. I hate it when that happens. the other thing with generosity is really of ourselves. And letting them know who we are. And I know as
Dads are trying to get to know our kids, especially as they are growing up and they're trying to get to know themselves, but giving of ourselves, of our stories. my kids are often begging for, hey, tell us another story. Tell us another story. they tend to go towards, you know, funny things that happened in high school and college, but there are moments where it's, hey, and here's a real life example of what I experienced around your age. Yeah. I think that's where the real generosity.
comes in of ourselves. So shifting from a no to a yes where possible, but also that's probably may a maybe a practical example. but I think our kids just want us.
Jesse French
Man, I l I love that you said that. Why do you think, Adam, that's true around and our children's desire for more of us, for and the example you give of like, man, I I wanted more examples and more of a sense of of the stories of who my dad is. Why do you think that is the case?
Adam Benjamin
Hmm. I think it helps them really figure out who they are. Where do they come from? I think there's a groundedness in that. I also think in that generosity, like if focus time lands in a place where they know they matter, I think generosity in this case, they land in a place of they're worth it.
And if we can offer ourselves to them, they now know, Hey, I'm worth it.
Jesse French
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's true. That, hey, I'm worth it, right? As we think about the everyday or the the litany of of requests and pieces like that. To operate out of the place of like generous with our yes, it has a sense of like, man, that there is enough, right? And our kids, you know, we've we talked a while back on one of these conversations around like abundance and scarcity and those different mindsets of like the generosity.
But man, there is enough. And I think what you just said is when we can have that awareness and operate from that place, some of the byproduct of that is our kids feeling like I'm worth it. Right. There is enough that my father has to give to me. And the kind of the through line or the the result of that is like, there's a worth there that is communicated.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah. And I think generosity can oftentimes be associated with stuff and things and opportunities and bet that if we were to if our kids were able to be true and honest with themselves, those things can be cool. But if those aren't available, I think they ultimately at a deep soul level want us as their dads. That's right.
Jesse French
Yeah, I had a conversation with a buddy last night and his kids are a little bit older, they're in their twenties. And he was saying, you know, one of one of his sons is like working and working full time and kind of in that that phase of life. And my buddy just said, you know, I realized he gave the example, he was like backing up this trailer into his garage. He's like, I've done this a thousand times. And he's like, I ended up jackknifing it and
Like the tongue of the trailer broke the headlight on my truck, you know, like a bummer, not catastrophic, right? But just like, that's a bummer. And he said, you know, I actually went out of my way to tell my son about that, to say, Hey man, look at this. I just botched it. And his point, I think, was one of he was generously sharing his mistakes. And he's like, I was doing that to try to hopefully communicate to my son, like,
Hey, failure and mistake is a reality, right? And I'm sure that's present, you know, as as he's working, right? And learning and figuring it out. But even just that notion of the generosity of of that you're talking about of ourselves, of our mistakes, of our failures, even I think when we're aware and can can offer that open handed, the the irony is that it's a wonderful gift to our kids.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, it lowers the bar for them, right? Dads tend to be superheroes at times. And we don't know when that label is taken off. And I think if we can paint a clearer picture of reality for our kids, that helps them place themselves in the world of saying, Hey, well, if if dad can make a mistake, then I probably can too and it's gonna be all right.
Jesse French
That's right. That's right. Okay, I want to go into one other couple other categories quick. I wanna offer up creativity as a place of we can crush it as dads when we are aware of our ability to bring creativity to our kids. And conversely, I think when if we don't, we can miss it. And so again, I'm just putting you on the spot, Adam, but why do you think creativity is an important space for us to be aware of as our dad and in the sharing of that with our children?
Adam Benjamin
Yeah. this one's hard for me. I am a I'm a routine guy. It I I have have routines and so this one is does not come naturally to me. But as I thought about creativity, and you kinda cue this up, it's really I think creativity is a discovery process for our kids. We kind of mentioned, you know, figuring out who they are. And I think it's an opportunity to jump in for us to see who they are, for ourselves to continue to figure out who we are.
And the routine can kind of make that more challenging. Creativity brings a sense of, hey, if there's something new that you're interested in, go for it. There's a capability associated with it of, hey, even in adulthood, if something piques your interest, well, man, your whole life you've been trying new things, you've you've gone about things different ways. Yes. Why not now? Right. I'm not saying I'm good at that. That's actually a an area that is difficult for me, but I can see
Like the discovery of oneself and the a cape like the knowing of, hey, I'm capable can come of that. Yeah.
Jesse French
Yeah, I think that's well said. Because when we are willing to explore, to be creative, to try. You talked a second ago about like what is the bar that we're aiming for. I feel like when when we are in and pursuing creative spaces with our kids and with our dad or with our kids, it expands kind of the arena to say, look, this there is so much value in that discovery, in the trying that is apart from, you know, desirable outcome, right? Of like it's only good if it's
If it's perfect or if the skill is mastered, right? Like creativity removes that constraint to say, now that discovery is good and right. And that's actually there's a teaching to that. But that I think what you said, right, when we're in those spaces, the discovery of who our children are and who they are becoming, it feels like it opens up a different piece of them or it gives an opportunity for us to really look deeply into who they are in some really important ways.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, doing the same thing over and over, which is my default, we see the same responses and same things and going about it a different way, bringing in a new activity or a known activity but from a different angle does view the situation differently and we can learn something. Totally. I think there's the potential, the greater potential for failure. And in you know, in the example with your your buddy you were talking to, like we will try something new.
It won't work out every single time, right? And that's okay.
Jesse French
Yeah. Yeah, probably more than that's okay. Like that's actually really really needed.
Adam Benjamin
Exactly,
exactly. We're all human, right?
Jesse French
And that's the word I was just gonna say, right? There is the discovery and the valuing of us as humans, right? as dads and as our kids, for our kids, man, that feels so so important. I think we can crush it as dads when we understand that as a necessary piece to foster and to pursue with our kids. Man, I think we miss it if we are only trying to focus all of the polish and all of the, you know, accomplishment is is where we should aim. So
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, it's it's the journey rather than the destination is kind of what comes to mind for creativity, right? Yeah. There's a journey in creativity and I think our culture is more about destinations in general. Right. What have you done in sports, in school, in like accomplishment, accomplishment, like you said. But the journey is where we discover ourselves.
Jesse French
Yeah, agreed. Last space that I wanna wander around in terms of as we're aware of it, we we have this chance to to really take advantage of it and connect with our kids is the space of levity. And you know, I've I think that when we as dads have more of the awareness of our lightness, our humor, our goofiness, and actually are aware of of how much that is needed.
think when we're aware of that and can offer that, I think it's medicine to our kids. And I think it can be such a challenge because there's I can view it through a lens that says, man, that's not responsible or that's not productive or efficient. We need to get these things done or, you know, we need to be able to instill these character traits. But I think, man, we miss it. Like because again, I think the the underlining of when we offer levity to our kids, I think they have the sense of like, man,
Things will be okay.
Adam Benjamin
Totally.
Jesse French
Right? Like there my dad can bring that. There is room enough in his life to offer his lightness and his goofiness to me. He is not so burdened by the pressures and the weights of the world that there is not room for that. And so it almost is this communication of like, hey, joy and lightness can exist in our family and in our dynamic. And I feel like levity helps communicate that.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I was on the same wavelength as you in the words I put to it is that there's a grounding experience in that. it's fun, right? As kids, who doesn't want to have fun? And that's, you know, hopefully a big definition of an upbringing is hey, when I was a kid it was fun, right? But there is a groundedness to it that, hey, the pressures of the world, the pressures that the kids are experiencing in that moment can melt away.
Because right now my dad's not caring about that. So it actually must not be that important. Yeah. And it's not a conscious thought. But if we can sit here and laugh till we cry, right? It doesn't have to happen every day, but if we can have levity consistently, then there is a a lightness in our experience of the world, right? My kids are in middle school. Middle school is typically not a fantastic experience for most people. And levity, I think, has helped
navigate some situations where, hey, what they feel at school maybe isn't that big. They might experience it big, but they come home and there's a lightness. It's not continued on at home, that heaviness that they may carry.
Jesse French
Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, Adam, as you're talking about that, I think this is maybe some of the crafty, gracious nature of who God is, is that you know, we're we're kind of talking through these four spaces of the need to be aware of these and to offer focused time and generosity and creativity to our kids, which I think is true. But I think what also is true, which is feels like kind of like a little ninja move maybe is our kids are also offering that to us. Right. Like
their levity, their creativity, I would say their generosity. They are also inviting that to us, not because they sh have to as a requirement, but it's just natural. And so I think that's some of the interesting interplay, right? Is we need those things as much as they do. And so again, not that we're pawing that off on our kids to give that to us and to meet our needs, but it is this like two way street about that, right? That yeah I think about the levity of of my kids and
their humor and their silliness that like they are naturally bringing that and I have a choice to be able to respond to engage in that that is actually needed by my soul in the same way that I need to offer that to them. So it does feel like these things are this kind of reciprocal dynamic that's present.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, it's interesting you say that. I think there you know, the the word that we hear often is there is that invitation to that. And what a helpful gift, like you were saying, to have that as we as adults get into our adulting and everything that comes with that, to be reminded of we do have a boy inside that often needs tending. And part of that tending is, hey, let's go have a good time.
Let's go be creative. Let's kind of put the worries of the world away. And it's not always, Hey, how does this boy need to be comforted? That is, I think, a big part and what does that boy need? But I think that boy is also saying, Hey, I wanna go run and play. Yeah.
Jesse French
Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that our kids are part of that process. Yeah. What a what a remarkable and amazing gift that that is.
Adam Benjamin
Absolutely. Mm-hmm.
Jesse French
Adam, as of round the corner on this, you and I had the chance this past summer to help lead Restoration Project's father son weekend called Man Maker Base Camp. we could chat for so many hours around like the importance of that. I think the the fun that we had around that. But I'd love to just kind of ask you as we wrap up, you know, without going into all of the minutia what that weekend is, it's a three day, two night camping experience for dads with eight to eleven year old sons.
And really kind of laying the found the groundwork for that son's passage to manhood, allowing that dad to connect deeply. But I just want to ask, like, how did you see, cause I would say both of us would say, man, those when we told those dads at the weekend, like the fact that you are here, like you're crushing it as a dad to like to have this time to do that. But just curious, how, how did you see, you know, even in the context of that weekend, some of these factors at play or or other ones of just seeing dads have the awareness of, like, man, I'm going to take advantage and really crush it.
In terms of pouring into their sons.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, I mean obvious easy one is they said yes to a whole weekend. Right. A weekend that does not have cell coverage. And so you are you are there. And so that's the big giving of time. And the experiences that we have there tend to focus that time in a really intentional manner. And the dads engage it, right? That's why they're there. They want to do that. I think we have a ton of fun, so there's levity.
Right. We have some pretty unique experiences that bring in creativity and the requirement of that. And so I think it's a really, really cool way, though it's a curated experience. It's a really cool way to say, you know what? This doesn't just have to be a weekend. It lays a foundation of like, I've done it before. I now know how to do this. It's a great time and I can take some of these things home. I don't have to just come up here a weekend a year or whatever and
Do this. Yes, it's fantastic. Please come. It's a great time. And it lays a foundation for like we were talking earlier. What does the day to day look like? How can I shift a few things? How can I be aware of like, man, that was a great weekend? How can I incorporate pieces of that into my day to day such that, you know, we all come back from retreats and have like the mountain high, and eventually, you know, that tends to fade. How can we apply that such that, yeah, it's not going to be the same type of experience at home, but
we can learn from it and bring that and incorporate that into our everyday rhythm.
Jesse French
Yeah. So true. So true. I wanna like spill all the fun surprises around like what that weekend held and
Adam Benjamin
Yeah. Let's just have to find out. Let's just have to go.
Jesse French
They will. for sure. Well, Adam, thank you for just your willingness to join in this conversation. Thank you for jumping into it and the the thoughtfulness around this awareness and the invitation for us as dads, man. I appreciate I appreciate what you brought and the chance to chew on it.
Adam Benjamin
Yeah, and thanks for being able to have this conversation. I appreciate you inviting me. Glad to be a part of it and it was fun to even think about it knowing this is what we were gonna talk about. Yeah. it was really helpful for me. So thank you.
Jesse French
Yeah, you bet, man. Guys, thanks for tuning in. We're excited to an honor to have you bring this podcast into to some portion of your life. So thanks for doing that. And we'll look forward to the next conversation ahead.