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Northwest Arkansas's go-to show for real estate agents, brokers, and investors looking to zoom in on the local market. Join us as we sit down with the leading voices in the area to hear how they're investing in NWA.
Hosted by (in order from left to right) Brian Wagers, Zach Stanley, and Brandon Still.
Zach Stanley: [00:00:00] Welcome to Northwest Arkansas Investing Podcast. Today, we have Josh Safran with us, entrepreneur, investor, co-owner, operator of The Gents Place in Bentonville, and director of Plug and Play of Northwest Arkansas.
Brian Wagers: We're gonna dive into scaling labor-intensive businesses, like here at The Gents Place, the future of NWA, Walmart Home Office campus, and how Josh thinks about investing in entrepreneurship today.
Zach Stanley: When you zoom out across business, investing, startups, and real estate, what do you think actually creates long-term success today?
Josh Saffran: Uh, uh, first of all, thank you for having me, guys. Of course. You guys have a fantastic podcast, and I'm honored and thrilled to be a part of it, so thank you for including me. Of
Zach Stanley: course.
Josh Saffran: I think the key word in there is long-term. I guess that's two words. But, um, I think, I think making money and making money fast is what everybody wants to do, right? I have a dollar, and I turn it into $2 tomorrow. Yep. Uh, being patient, being mindful, you know, long-term. I mean, you're talking about long-term wealth.
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: Um, the stock market goes up and [00:01:00] down, right? You, you buy a house, and it's... and you, and you flip it, and then turn, turn around two years later, and you buy another house, and you lose two, 200 grand on the house. So I think, again, just staying diversified, but really being focused on being patient and understanding, uh, what's happening in the marketplace long-term.
There's so many different areas to invest your money.
Brian Wagers: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: Uh, and I'm a big believer in really trying to spread it across as many different areas as possible. Yeah. And not checking your portfolio every day. I mean, it's just, it gets uber frustrating. Yeah. And again, you're in this for the long haul. Yep.
Uh, and that's the key phrase that you guys had in there is long-term, being very patient and being very diversified.
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Brian Wagers: 888-TCS-MGT-5.
Zach Stanley: We interview a lot of people on here, um, real- people that have 150 units, people that are solely commercial, uh, some business owners. And I, and I like- I'm, I'm really looking forward to your perspective because you're a bit local business owner here, and you're diversified in investing in that capacity and probably different other capacities as well, um, across...
So, so you are pretty diversified in your investments, you would say, and, and that's probably a key to success, would
Josh Saffran: you- Y- yeah, I've had a long-term financial advisor- Mm-hmm ... a shout-out to Joe DiMauro in, in- Yeah ... in New York for 25 years. Okay. And so he's kinda managing a lot of the money. [00:03:00] Uh, he's always talked to me about having three different buckets of money: your today money that you need to live and pay bills, your next 5 to 10 year, whether that's college or weddings or things along those lines, and then your retirement.
Mm-hmm. You need to be contributing money to each of those different areas. Um, and so I've been very focused on that for a long period of time. Uh, when you own a home, obviously there's, there's, uh, value there. When you're opening and owning a business- Mm-hmm ... which is what we've chosen to do here, and, and put money there, I think that's important.
Uh, but, uh, putting money and saving for retirement, I mean, I t- I'm telling my 20-year-old, like, "Start thinking about those things now." He's like, "Dad, I'm 20." I'm like, "I hear you-" Yeah ... uh, "but the more you can do that now, the more it will scale and grow over a period of time." And I just think that's super, super important.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Brian Wagers: Y- you said you, you've been connected with your financial advisor for 24 years now. Give us a quick version of your entrepreneurial journey and how you got to where you are today.
Josh Saffran: Yeah, I moved down here, uh, 15 years ago. Wow, it's 15 years. Um, with one of the CPGs. You know, 15 years ago, when somebody moved here, [00:04:00] you either worked for Walmart, most likely you worked for a supplier.
Mm-hmm. And so that was always the ongoing joke. Yep. Uh, and so I, I continued that path for a few years and then, um, I got terminated from, from a role here with one of the big CPGs, and I really didn't know what to do. I'd never... I'd always been a high performer, and I'd always done well, and we just didn't see things the same way, and I said, "I'm never gonna be in that boat again."
Mm-hmm. And I wanted to own my own business, and I wanted to be able to diversify, uh, and also stay in the CPG space. Mm-hmm. And so that's really the impetus where, to where The Gents Place came from. I really wanted to be responsible for my own success and not always reporting up to somebody else- Yeah ... who was making the decisions, and that's really where the entrepreneur journey started.
Zach Stanley: So, uh, let's, let's dive a little bit into that, that pivotal turn point, uh, where- You said, you said you were terminated from... Would you say that was what spurred you on towards your entrepreneurialship?
Josh Saffran: A thousand percent. Yeah. I- terminate's a strong word. We, we mutually agreed that we were- It is a strong word.
It was my word. It was my word. Uh, we mutually agreed to part ways. It wasn't working. Yeah. And so I didn't have a [00:05:00] job. Mm-hmm. And I was like, yeah, I, I, I just have always wanted to own my own business. My dad owned his own business when we were growing up, and the mistake he made, it did fail, but he left his career to open this business and poured everything into it.
And when, when the business failed and went bankrupt, he didn't really know what to do. Mm-hmm. So I said, I gotta keep and have a day job, and then I gotta be able to open something and have my wife step in and run it. Mm-hmm. Um, and that would give me something to have passive income at some point when I was thinking about retiring and moving away from it.
But it's, um, entrepreneurship is not for everybody. No. It, it's, uh, I think everybody thinks it's glamorous because they walk into a place like this and think it's beautiful and- Mm-hmm ... and it is, but it's really hard. It's 24/7. Um- A
Zach Stanley: lot of background stuff ...
Josh Saffran: there's just, you know, the w- the wash- the dishwasher or the washing machine's not working.
You gotta show up on a Friday. There's so- I mean- Mm-hmm ... somebody's not happy, and you have to have a career discussion. It's just- Mm-hmm ... it's always here, and I t- I tell people that, it's... You need to be prepared if it's something you wanna do 'cause it's not always glorious. Mm-hmm. It's very, very hard work.
Zach Stanley: Yeah, so you can, you can w- in your... I mean, in that moment, [00:06:00] when you m- mutually agreed to part ways, um, I mean, you might've been thinking like, "Oh, crap," like, "We gotta figure this out." Like, when you decided to go, "Hey, full-time entrepreneurship," were you like, "This is plan A. We gotta make plan A work"? Is that, is that the mindset you had into it?
Or, or walk me in a little bit into that.
Josh Saffran: I just knew, knowing my personality-
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm ...
Josh Saffran: when you work for other people, and you're part of a, a supplier that's got bosses and bosses and bosses and bosses, you're working really hard, and you're getting a paycheck every two weeks, and you got your benefits and your, your healthcare and all that other stuff-
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm
Josh Saffran: But whatever you're building does not go to your own personal satisfaction and growth and wealth.
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: And I just thought there was always something inside of me that said I want to, to explore that, and I also felt there was an opportunity to do more here in the community, which I n- I'm sure we'll talk about- Yeah ... a little bit about this community, how amazing it is. Mm-hmm. And being able to give back and, and help others.
Mm-hmm. Uh, and that, that, that really just clicked for me that that was something that was really important.
Brian Wagers: That's huge. When you sa- so 15 [00:07:00] years ago, is that when Jen's Place started? Or what you got you into-
Josh Saffran: So Jen's Place has been open for eight years. So, um, 15 years been here. I worked with Colgate-Palmolive, fantastic company.
Left there, got divorced, like a lot of stuff happening all at the same time. And, uh, again, when we parted ways with this job after, after Colgate, then I just decided I wanted to do something. And I didn't know what I wanted to do. Mm-hmm. I knew I wanted something walmart.com/amazon-proof. You know- Okay ... how they're taking over the world?
The day that a barber pops out of your mailbox and starts cutting your hair, you know, that's some George Jetson stuff that's- ... I just don't see that ever happening. Yeah. And so I really thought, "Okay, you know, you have to protect yourself from these big companies that are- Mm ... gobbling up everybody in the world."
And I thought the barber shop was, was a good, safe place. Mm-hmm. And then I, we layered in, uh, networking and connectivity, so now it's called a, a business and barber lounge, and we've kinda really built on the networking piece-
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm ...
Josh Saffran: which, as you guys know, is super important in this town.
Zach Stanley: Very. Very, very important.
I mean, I think you, you even see, Brian, with [00:08:00] contracts, closers, and connectors, like how important that is. I mean, would you agree with that?
Brian Wagers: Yeah, 100%. This is still... Like, as fast as we're growing, it still has a small town feel, and we talk- Mm ... about it all the ti- Like it, it's a lot different when you can shake, shake someone's hand versus just an email from someone out of state.
You know, there's a lot of moves that are happening, you know, from connecting and, uh- And
Zach Stanley: there's people calling. I mean, I mean, I will share absolutely no names, but, like, the other day I got called and someone wanted an opinion on somebody, and an honest, open opinion of how I felt about somebody, and that's the kind of conversations that are happening in the background with, like, you know, having a good reputation, like being here local, shaking hands, being in person.
Like, those conver- kinda conversations are happening, and that's kinda why I l- I like this area. It's like, it's very... You know, we're growing really quick, but, like, people really wanna know, like, what is this person actually like? Like, are they a good person? Like, do they rub you wrong? So that, that's really cool as well.
Um, Josh, uh, looking back, what are some of the biggest lessons, like when you [00:09:00] first got started? Um, I'm sure you've probably learned a million lessons, um, and you could probably tell us about a million lessons, but if you could pinpoint a few when you first were getting started, what are a few of those lessons that you learned early on?
Josh Saffran: It's interesting when you're an entrepreneur and you own something, everybody looks to the owners. But there's 25 people that we employ here across both locations. Mm-hmm. And this is their job, and we're responsible to ensure that they get paid every two weeks, that they're continuing to grow personally and professionally.
We have lots of good conversations with the team about- Mm-hmm ... growth. Um, and so we're responsible for their wellbeing. We're responsible that they can buy a house and buy a car. And so I hadn't really thought through that as much. Like, you knew that you were gonna have people on your team, but then they really become part of your family.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: And you really wanna see them grow and ensure success. Mm-hmm. And so I hadn't really thought through that impact, but the amount of HR conversations that we're having- Wow ... and not the stereotypical HR, like you're doing something bad, but the growth and the sitting with people. I mean, this is a barbershop that provides [00:10:00] 401- Mm-hmm
for their employees, that there's a set schedule, that they get paid time off- Mm-hmm ... um, that, that they can get a gym membership paid for them. Like, this is not standard in this industry. Yeah. And so we've really invested a lot of our time and equity into ensuring that these people are happy in their job, happy in their career, and can have growth.
And I hadn't really thought through-
Zach Stanley: Yeah ...
Josh Saffran: that, that impact. And after eight years, it's really important to myself and my wife, Emily.
Zach Stanley: Do you see a lot m- uh, a lot higher retention with your barbers than other-
Josh Saffran: Yeah. I mean, this industry is typically the grass is greener down the block. Yeah. And so I can, I can go...
I mean, there's tons of great places that cut hair in Northwest Arkansas. Yeah. Tons, tons, tons. And so I can go down the block and get a dollar more an hour, or I can... You move from a, a, a paid job here, these people are W-2 employees, to a commission or a booth rent or whatever else- Mm-hmm ... they wanna do. And we do have turnover.
I mean, it's just the nature of the world that we live in. Right, right. But we, we have people here six, seven, eight years.
Zach Stanley: Wow.
Josh Saffran: Um, when you're here seven years with us, we pay 100% of your healthcare. Wow. I mean, like, it's a big deal. [00:11:00] Again, it's, it's unheard of. And so you wanna retain and grow and develop people, and we, we, we do have a good track record of keeping most people here for a long period of time.
Zach Stanley: Yeah. Well done.
Brian Wagers: You first get, you first got started, what made you choose to stay in NWA versus go back where you came from?
Josh Saffran: H- my, my journey, you know, I'm a, I'm a New Yorker, you know? I love, that's why I love the Yankee hat. Yeah, yeah. So I've worked hard to remove the accent as much as possible. But grew up in New York, New Jersey area, moved to Minneapolis, big city.
Mm-hmm. Moved to Boston, big city. Moved back to Hoboken, New Jersey, big city. Mm. Moved to Chicago, and then I came here kicking and screaming. And I, I, you know, 18 months, get me out. Like, this is... What's, what am I gonna do here? I don't have any family here. And I, I love it. I mean, this is where all my kids have all gone through high school.
My son's at the University of Arkansas, my daughter's in Springfield at college, and this area has just grown on me, and it's become home. Mm. And I could see where I'm doing half a year in retirement somewhere else, but roots are here, and, and I really enjoy being a part [00:12:00] of this community and, and don't plan on leaving here anywhere else.
Zach Stanley: What was your... In New, in New York and Chicago, what was your perception? Was it hillbillies and moonshine, or...?
Josh Saffran: It, it's so funny. It's really, really, really so funny. Like, I talk to people here today that don't like New Yorkers and have this perception everybody's nasty and direct, and it's, there's garbage piled up, and everybody's rude.
Not reality, right? Yeah. And then the perception from there to here is, uh, uh, nobody has teeth. There's no running water, right? Like, all this stuff, and none of that's true either. Yeah. And it's like, you gotta come see both places and visit it. My, my buddies from college, I grew up... I went to college up- Mm-hmm
University of Delaware. They've never been to Arkansas. They're planning on coming for the first time, and they're giving me, you know, "Arkansas? Like, just like, what am I gonna do in Arkansas?" Yeah. And they're gonna come down here and be blown away- Mm-hmm ... by how amazing this place is. But you have to see it to believe it.
Zach Stanley: Yeah, the Natural State. I, I, I represent a lot of out-of-state, uh, investors, and especially coming from, people coming from, like, the coast. They'll come here and they're like, "This is beautiful. You have streams." I'm like, "Yeah, it's the Natural State. Like, you have... We have mountains for here." Yeah. Uh, [00:13:00] and they're, they're blown away by this area.
I think it speaks volumes. Um, now, The Gents place is incredible. Uh, when... You've talked about customers remembering the experience, uh, of, about being more than just a haircut. Can you explain, uh, uh, dive a little bit more into that?
Josh Saffran: Yeah. I, I mean, it's, it's really, really, um... If you guys left today and said...
And you guys came in and got services this morning and said, "I
Zach Stanley: got- A- absolutely incredible, by the way.
Josh Saffran: Thank you. Thank you Yeah. Said, "I got a, I got a really good haircut," or, "I got a really good shave," I would be disappointed. Mm-hmm. And you're like, "What do you mean you're disappointed?" You can go... And again, there's dozens of places, whether it's Clips place or, or a barbershop in town, and you can get a great service, match the service that you got today, but how was the experience when you walked in?
And there's interesting things here that you probably wouldn't have noticed. There's a concierge welcoming you at the front- Mm-hmm ... that she or he doesn't cut hair. They're pouring you a cup of coffee. They're making sure you get checked in. They're helping you with membership questions. The phone doesn't ring here.
Nothing worse and m- more- Mm ... more frustrating when you get your hair [00:14:00] cut and somebody goes, "Hold on, I gotta go answer the phone."
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: The phone doesn't ring here. We have a third-party call service. Wow. Like, even the things with the music and the relaxation room. And so we really want you guys to come in who have high stressful jobs, like family things, problems, challenges, always moving, to be able to close your eyes and enjoy the experience of the 30 minutes to an hour and a half.
You had an hour and a half worth of services this morning, right? Yes. And you're... Yesterday- Mm-hmm ... you're like, "That's a lot." Now I'm looking at you like you're, like, in the zone, which is- Yeah ... like, that's, that's... But w- we want that from our guys. I
Zach Stanley: think I saw Brian asleep, actually, in the chair.
Brian Wagers: Yeah. It, it was nice to have that, uh, coffee right after.
But yeah, it i- it's like a spa, uh, like almost, you know, mixed with a haircut, and like you said, it's a... You can gather your thoughts and think about business and, uh, be peaceful. So I think, uh, yeah, it was great. H- how is it like operating a business? You know, even, even having a barbershop alone is pretty labor-intensive, you know, having all these different components of, you know, almost hospitality, you know.
How is that for [00:15:00] you operating the business?
Josh Saffran: I, I have to remind people, um- Rent and people are expensive. Like, and you guys know these types of things. And so, uh, people are, "Oh, well, well I go down the block and get my haircut for 30, 40 bucks, but here I gotta pay for a membership that's $500. I mean, you guys must be making a ton of money."
And I kinda always laugh and chuckle. I'm like, "I mean, you're sitting in a build-out right now that is like nothing else that's in this area from- Yeah ... from, I mean, the cost to build this and all the details. And so it's, it's an expensive, high overhead, labor-intensive business where we're investing so much in our people- Mm-hmm
that, um, it, it's, it's, it's rewarding. Uh, but again, it's also... it's als- it's a challenge. Yeah. I mean, it's a hard business to run because of the overhead that comes along with it. I
Zach Stanley: w- I would say f- speaking from a firsthand experience, and I, the f- l- I would say maybe a few years ago, I'd been in the gents place, and I always...
I remember at the time trying to convince my wife to let me get a membership. Uh, but now coming in here as well, um, it... you just feel special. Like, I walk in, [00:16:00] I'm, like, offered a potentially, like, an Elijah Craig or something, and I'm like That's nice. Now, not 9:00 AM in the morning. But, like, I could see myself coming in here later in the day- Yeah
on a Friday and having something like that and winding down, and, uh, this backroom experience, uh, is super special. The secret door, the lockers. I mean, you just... That's the s- something for me personally that would make me definitely choose this over, like, just a good cut. Yeah. Uh, because I, I feel special, and I want to feel special.
Like, if, if someone doesn't wanna feel special, they're lying. Um, that, that's kind of what sells me on this.
Josh Saffran: Well, the business lounge... So we're, we're sitting in a VIP business lounge that's one of one that we built here- Mm-hmm ... specifically for the Walmart campus, which I'm sure we'll talk Walmart campus soon.
So, like, we're behind a, a speakeasy door. Yeah. And we've created this business networking hub where we want guys to be able to come in and do business deals. Yeah. Whether you're here for a real estate investment meeting, or whether you're sitting here, uh, at the bar and you're exchanging a business card with somebody that then turns into a business deal- Mm-hmm
that happens here [00:17:00] all the time. Yeah. And people are coming here with their laptops, and they're not even getting a haircut for the day. They're not getting a service, and they're walking out with three or four business connections that are gonna help them grow. And you go, "But I was just at my barber shop," right?
Mm-hmm. And that's really, that's really special about this place.
Zach Stanley: 100%. I, I... A quick question for you. So now you're, uh, from, uh, the public lens, and I'm, me being public, you're scaling now. Uh, how do you main- maintain, like, consistency while scaling? Um, how, how do you balance that?
Josh Saffran: That's been really, really challenging.
Mm-hmm. I mean, we had the other location that's been open for eight years, and then Walmart approached us and asked us to be here, and we've been open for about eight months. Yeah. And so we were d- we, we were gonna start with a whole new team here, but then we figured out w- because they're five miles apart, people would wanna see consistency between both locations.
Mm-hmm. So we split, and we pulled about 30% of our team over from there to here-
Brian Wagers: Mm-hmm ...
Josh Saffran: uh, which then causes a little bit of disruption around, "I used to do this, and now I'm over here, and now I have a new team."
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: Um, so we really had to spend a lot of time thinking about the [00:18:00] way to scale. Um, Emily and I are only two people, and so we- Yeah
you know, we try to pour into the business as much as possible. But we've now gotten to a point where we have a great manager here and a great manager at the location, and I am sort of overhead and seeing this place through. I work out of here on Fridays- Mm ... and sh- and my wife's sort of over there.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: That allows us to be paying attention to both but also give the managers the freedom to run the business. Yeah. But scaling is really hard, and we had somebody come up to us last week and go, "Hey, you ready to open a third location? I got a, a property for you in such and such town." And I'm like, "Dude, we're not ready yet."
Eight months in. We're still, we're, we're still, like, recovering from what this was to b- to build this out.
Zach Stanley: So scaling now, y- have you had to take a deep breath and, like, let go of some things that previously you would have hold tighter onto?
Josh Saffran: It's... My wife and I talk about it. It's the hardest thing that we have to do.
Mm-hmm. And we have to understand that if we're not as involved, maybe there may be a m- a mistake or two that we, we are not catching.
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: But that has to be okay, otherwise we're gonna drive ourselves nuts. Yes. And so that's hard-
Brian Wagers: Mm-hmm ...
Josh Saffran: um, 'cause [00:19:00] this is our baby and this is our blood, sweat, and tears, and money poured into this.
Yep. But the reality is we have two great managers, and we have to let go and let them fail fast and make a few mistakes- Mm-hmm ... and pull us in. But we ha- we also can't step too far away, where all of a sudden that we're having significant issues. So it's a really tough balance to figure out.
Brian Wagers: For other business owners, what, what are you d- keep holding tight to, and what are you d- what are you delegating?
What are the first things that you're delegating, and what are the things that you still hold onto? I
Josh Saffran: mean, the culture is paramount. I mean, we, we are really focused on having the right people come in the door and ensuring that they have, uh, an ex- an outstanding experience. Um, the running the day-to-day operations, and, "Hey, we're out of soda," or, "We're out of paraffin wax," or, "This person didn't have a great experience today," and normally I'd jump on a call and say, "Hey, what happened?"
or, "How can we fix it for you?" We have to give some of those things to the managers. I mean, they're highly capable to do those things. Mm-hmm. Um, we really wanna bring the right people through the front door. It's my job and my wife's job. It's like a thr- it's a three-headed monster. It's our job to, to market and bring the [00:20:00] right people in, and that's from who she talks to on a regular basis, and myself.
Mm-hmm. And we're gonna continue to be passionate about that, but maybe a little bit less when the people get checked in at the front and the back of the house. I have to trust that the processes are in place to have great experience, but we're not gonna let go of marketing and trying to attract and bring the right people in the front door.
Brian Wagers: What kind of systems have you evol- It sounds like you, uh, the phone service, I th- feel like that's genius, 'cause that i- that is a problem in, in any industry. If I'm getting a haircut,
Zach Stanley: I don't wanna hear da-da-da-da-da-da.
Brian Wagers: Yeah. The, the- ... not only the sound, like, you know, you talk about the peace and the, you know, the, the freedom here, but also just, you know, keeping the barbers in the, in the seat.
You know, that, I feel like that's a great play on systems. What, what else, what other systems have evolved since- Being in the business for so long
Josh Saffran: Um, well, again, it's really important, as you mentioned, the concierge folks, the folks up front have to be focused up front. In addition to the phone not ringing, to your point, the barber leaving your side to go [00:21:00] check somebody in or check somebody...
Like, we just don't do that. Mm-hmm. Like, we need them to be at your side and having good, empowering conversations when they're back behind the chair. I think we're, we're dabbling a bit on the third-party concierge where, where we have real people now doing it as opposed to, you know, embedding some AI technology- Hmm
and starting to think down that route. You know, AI is changing the world, as we all know, and so while you're not gonna have, uh, AI cut your hair, but maybe from a customer service standpoint, there's ways we need to be thinking about that. The CEO and founder of the company, uh, at- based out of Frisco, he's really, really into what the next two to three years look like.
Mm-hmm. And it's probably less about what services do we change, but more to how do we embed some AI into the thinking. Yeah. And that's probably gonna be in the customer service and concierge way. The other piece that we're really targeting right now is when you guys are sitting at the barber chairs, maybe doing some marketing, uh, creating an experience in the chair where, where businesses can market to...
You know, y- I have your undivided attention for 35 minutes sitting in that chair.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: And so do we have an opportunity now to have clients [00:22:00] sponsor Gents TV-
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm ...
Josh Saffran: and run some advertising when people are in the chair? So we're toying with that a little bit- Yeah ... as well now.
Zach Stanley: At Advantage Title and Escrow, we don't just close deals.
We partner with realtors to protect their clients from contract to close. Because closing isn't just paperwork, it's people. We strive to educate, communicate, and safeguard every step of the process so your buyers and sellers feel confident, informed, and secure. Whether it's first home or forever one, we're with you every step of the way, doing our best to clear the path, catch the details, and keep the closing table as stress-free as possible.
Advantage Title and Escrow: because your clients deserve more than just a closing
Since you are an operator, has that affected how you evaluate investments as a whole now? Like, seeing... You- you've seen your business through your lens, and now when you're approached with other investments, has, does that change how you evaluate those?
Josh Saffran: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is... Being in this business, a- a- again, when you're thinking about investments, the way I tend to think [00:23:00] about it is I am writing a check for something that I hope that that goes up and grows.
Mm-hmm. Right? I mean, that's the way it's doing it. But owning a business, uh, I tell people, like, they, like... I said, "Why do you wanna own a, a small business?" They say, "I wanna make money. I wanna make money quickly." "You're in the wrong business." Yeah, yeah. Like, you... This is not the way to do it. How do you make money quick?
Well, I mean, go, go flip a house, which again, there's pros and... Like, there's hard to do. Yeah. Go put it all on black at, at the casino. Yeah. Like, right? Like, uh, go put money in Nvidia or go get on the SpaceX, uh, IPO. Yeah. Like, there's ways to make money quicker. Mm-hmm. But if you're in a, open a business and you start a small business, I mean, it's a long, long, long term, the amount of capital that you're deploying up front versus how long it takes to make the money back.
Mm. I, I love coming in here and the feeling of being a part of the business and the community, and I know that if we do this right, this can be here for many years and there's passive income.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: But if you're looking to make money quick, as an operator, I mean, this is just not the way to do it. It's
Zach Stanley: just- What I see is, uh, you're, you're basically...
You're like, "How, how can I best serve the people that are coming in the door?" [00:24:00] And then the money comes after that. That's, that's kinda what I see.
Josh Saffran: The, the model, and it's, and as I explain it, I think it's really part of our secret sauce, so I'm sharing secrets with you guys here- Mm ... in front of all your listeners- Thank you.
Thank you ... is when the team, we pour into the team. When the team loves coming to work... And think about your job. When you love going to work, you perform great. Mm-hmm. When you perform great, you sell something, and then you make money. So when the team is doing a great job cutting your hair or doing a shave, and they're happy and they're speaking highly of the business, you as the client have a great experience.
You as the client having great experience then goes to their friend and says, "I'm gonna spend money on cologne or buy a membership." Mm-hmm. And so we start there, and that's where we pour our, all our energy in. Yeah. Um, and that's really unique, I think, in this industry.
Zach Stanley: 100%. Let's, let's dive a little bit, take a little segue into, uh, Plug & Play.
Uh, for people that are unfamiliar, can you give us a quick overview of what that is and how you're involved there?
Josh Saffran: Yeah. It's, it's really, really, really interesting business. Again, I had to do a s- a significant brain shift coming from selling a widget to [00:25:00] Walmart or Target or wherever I was in my career, and I get a call from a recruiter About four and a half years ago, and then he says, "Don't hang up on me.
I have an interesting job for you. Think about networking in this community and engaging in entrepreneurship." And I'm like, uh, like, it all in my wheelhouse. So Plug and Play is a Silicon Valley-based venture capital company that has 60 offices around the world, and from an investment standpoint, this is a fun story.
Our CEO, um, he bought a piece of property in Palo Alto, which we call the Lucky Building now. Mm-hmm. And he had tenants in his building, so talking about commercial real estate. Mm-hmm. And these tenants couldn't afford to pay him rent, so he said, "Let me just take equity in your company." Well, that was Google when they had three employees.
That's right. So he stepped in something- Yeah ... and then he had a similar situation where he was an early investor in Dropbox and PayPal, and now the way the company works is two sides. We're an early-stage investor in technology, so we'll write $50,000 to $100,000 checks in pre-seed and seed companies.
Brian Wagers: Okay.
Josh Saffran: Um, and hopefully we have, we can grow that.
We have 38 [00:26:00] unicorns in our portfolio, billion-dollar companies.
Brian Wagers: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: And then the side of the work that I'm on is we work with companies here to help them, specifically in supply chain, problem solve- Mm ... and we will introduce them to startups that can address the issues that they're trying to solve. So if we're in the supply chain space, which is where I'm at, and somebody's looking to figure out how to autonomously unload trailers instead of having a human do it- Mm-hmm
we will scour the globe and find the right startups for them to then go pilot with and hopefully commercialize this technology within their building.
Zach Stanley: Wow. Wow.
Brian Wagers: That's awesome. And th- and there's such a huge need in Northwest Arkansas, and there's a ton of n- noise around the startup industry. What, what excites you about the, the startup and, and innovation industry?
Josh Saffran: What's really cool for me, again, I'm, I always tell the... I'm like, "I'm the old guy with the beard, with the gray beard with these folks," 'cause- ... I'm talking to 20 to 35-year-old founders, entrepreneurs that have this wonderful, amazing idea. Mm-hmm. And we talk, again, everything with AI right now is, is, uh, [00:27:00] is crazy, but I get to hear some of these things.
We were just out in our, at our... We do this a biannual event in Silicon Valley, and, um, we had StarCloud out there, who the CEO and founder, he just, uh, had got $250 million i- in, in raise and investment, and he's putting, uh, data, uh, AI data centers in space.
Zach Stanley: Wow.
Josh Saffran: That's why I'm like, "Wow," like, "Who comes up with this stuff?"
This guy's 38 years old. I mean, they're already gonna be a billion-dollar company in valuation. Wow. And he said, "Well, there's, there's... We're gonna run out of room to do AI data centers in, in the, on Earth, and so I'm just gonna put this satellite up in space, and we're gonna run an AI data center out of space."
I'm like- What? And I hear these types of presentations and things all the time, and there's really interesting things going on, and obviously people are, like, on board. They wanna invest in this type of stuff- Yeah ... because, like, this is, this is... We're talking on an investing podcast. Like, wouldn't you wanna invest in something like that really early on?
Zach Stanley: Yes, 100%. Well, and that, that... I mean, this isn't even on it, but that, that leads me to this. Like, how do you personally choose what to say yes and no to? [00:28:00] And I feel like that's really important.
Josh Saffran: That's really, really, really hard, and that's really hard here in Northwest Arkansas right now from a s- I think there's a lot of money of folks here in this community that wanna invest in startups and technology.
Mm-hmm. I think the first things that you look for in these founders are, one, are they good founders that have successful exits? So, so we have a few of those folks here in town- Mm-hmm ... that have had successful exits and have done those types of things. And then is, the most important thing is what is the problem you're trying to solve?
And this is where startups and founders really get lost. They build a cool widget because they can.
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: But they're not thinking about what's the problem that they're trying to solve for. Mm-hmm. And they have to be able to go to Walmart or Tyson or J.B. Hunt, and Walmart, Tyson, or J.B. Hunt has to say, "This is cool But you're not solving a problem for me, so I'm gonna pass.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: And they have to figure that out. And a quick story I'll tell you. Of course. There was a guy at one point, if you've ever been in a Walmart warehouse or DC, and if you've been in there, they're huge, and they have these old bikes, almost like the Wizard of Oz bikes that they ride [00:29:00] around, the supervisors to get from one end to the other.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: And this guy came to me. He goes, "I have this great innovation that I wanna sell to, to a Walmart or a Target or whoever." I said, "What is it?" He said, "It's this scooter that they get around much faster than the bike, and it's tracking, uh, them and w- how many steps and what are they doing and how prod- productivity, how much of their productivity is working."
Right. I was like, "That's cool." And I started talking to Walmart, and, and I started talking to Target, and I started talking to Costco. And the reality is it's not a need for them. Like, the little bike is getting people around, and it's doing the job. Yeah. So while the technology was cool, it's not solving a problem.
Right. And in their world of 1,000 things to do, this was the millionth thing to do.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: And the s- the, the startup founder ended up not moving forward because he realized my technology was great-
Zach Stanley: Yeah ...
Josh Saffran: but it's not solving an important need for somebody when they already have something that does the job.
Zach Stanley: That's so important. That's so important. Well, and well, you did touch on it here and there, but, like, why... in, in that story even, but, like, why do you think Northwest Arkansas has become such a place for that sort of, that sort of thing with, like, startups and entrepreneurship in [00:30:00] general?
Josh Saffran: Well, when you, you know, when you're a startup and a founder, end of the day is you- one of two things.
You need your technology to be embedded, um, through a commercialization rollout with a company- Mm-hmm ... and/or you want somebody to buy you, right? Those are the two ways that they wanna do it. Mm-hmm. And so when you're here, and you have Fortune 2, unfortunately, we need to get back to Fortune 1 with Walmart.
Mm-hmm. And you have Tyson and J.B. Hunt and ArcBest and Simmons Food. Like, there's really good companies here- Mm-hmm ... that are looking to move things forward. And so, um, when they... people talk about Austin and what was going on there for all those years, there's a lot of opportunity to grow here. And then you think about the Waltons and all the money that they're pouring into the ecosystem.
Mm-hmm. You know, everybody here now wants to do healthcare. Why? Because Alice is so passionate about healthcare. Mm-hmm. So you got all these people interested in bringing healthcare-based technology to the region because they know that there's somebody interested who also has the funds to back and support those initiatives.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: So that, you see a lot of that stuff happening here at the same time right now.
Zach Stanley: Yeah, they're almost seeing her as, like, an anchor point for, for that. Yeah.
Josh Saffran: Well, whether it's the outdoor recreation with- Mm-hmm ... Tom and Stuart and what they're [00:31:00] doing. I mean, like, everybody's trying to flood the area based on what's, what's important and passionate, and there's a lot of money here ar- to invest in those types of things.
Brian Wagers: There is. Yeah, you're, you're seeing companies from all across the country. What, what do you think Northwest Arkansas, uh, residents take for granted that these other companies are noticing about NWA?
Josh Saffran: Uh, I mean, right now there's s- there's so much going on here in the supply chain space, in the healthcare space, in the outdoor recreation space.
I think what the Mars family has done here with home building and construction has put them on the map, right, and has done a lot of different things here. So the area's becoming very diversified. I think people are also realizing the cost of living here and to bring your startup here is much better than Silicon Valley or Austin or Nashville.
Mm-hmm. Even though we're seeing pricing go way up here- Mm-hmm ... it's still much below, in many cases, uh, where it is in other parts of the country. I think there's a lot of interesting, good opportunities, um, and you guys know there's 31 new people moving here every day. Mm-hmm. So people are seeing tons of opportunities still in this area.
I think [00:32:00] we are struggling as it's saturated, and the reality is I, I, I think we're not even clear, near the top yet.
Zach Stanley: Yeah. Are, are there any, are there any technologies or industries that you're especially bullish on, on over the next, like five to 10 years?
Josh Saffran: I mean, obviously it's easy to cop out to say AI.
Zach Stanley: Right. Right.
Josh Saffran: Um, but that's the reality of the situation. Mm-hmm. You know, every startup I'm talking to now has changed their domain name to .ai. And I'm like, "Well, you're not an AI company, but they have to... Everybody's gotta be playing in this space." Right. Right. I think the way people are shopping is changing dramatically.
I think the days of you going out to website, fill in the blank, and buying a new brand-new brown Nike hat, uh, Yankee hat- Yeah ... excuse me, like that's changing with LLMs, and that's changing with a- with agents right now, and it's changing with ChatGPT and Perplexity and, um, it's ha- changing fast. Mm-hmm. And you're gonna be quickly at a day where your, your agent is going to know, um, what you need to buy, and it's just gonna show up at your door.
Mm-hmm. Like think about that for a second. You're not gonna go to a website and say, "I'm gonna buy a pair of new tennis [00:33:00] sneakers," and shop and find your size. Like you're gonna... We're gonna get to a point where stuff is showing up at your doorstep because your agent is gonna know what you want, and it's gonna know your shopping behaviors, and there'll be a credit card saved.
We're not there yet, but we're not far from those ways of thinking. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that is changing the way that everybody's thinking about startup technology and what they wanna bring to big companies. Mm-hmm. Because think about the big companies, they've invested billions of dollars into their website for human eyes to look at it, and the reality is now human eyes are looking at it, but also LLM and- Mm-hmm
and agents are now starting to shop for people. So it's happening super quick.
Brian Wagers: Yeah. You, you, uh, mentioned that Walmart reached out to you on this, this home campus. So just shifting briefly before we get into the fire round about a little touch on commercial real estate and then being part of this Walmart campus.
What was it like, uh, being part of the, the Walmart campus opening?
Josh Saffran: We have had... Since the other location opened eight years ago, we, we get approached multiple times a year about would you like to [00:34:00] open in Kansas City or Tulsa or Little Rock or all these places. We always look at it and it's, and, and it really has to be right fit, right location, right time, right population and demographic.
And when Walmart came to us, it was super humbling, and I'm like, "All right. Well, we're four to five miles away, so we need to build something with an incremental value, otherwise you're cannibalizing the other location." Mm-hmm. So we had to put a lot of thought into that. But when the biggest company in the world comes to you and says, "We're building this campus, and we wanna bring all these amenities for all these associates, and we're looking at a barbershop, and we want you," like, how do you say no to that?
Mm-hmm. You know? Like, you really can't.
Brian Wagers: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: And we were excited. And so this was a multi-year back-and-forth project. I had to go to the CEO of The Gents Place and say, "I wanna build this speakeasy back here," which didn't exist. Mm-hmm. We had to get Walmart's permission to kinda, to think through some of these things.
I mean, even when you guys walked in, that picture, that portrait of Sam Walton hanging over the fireplace- Mm-hmm ... like, we had to get permission to, to do that. Yeah. Like, we had to tell people, "This is what we wanna do." But when, when they come to [00:35:00] you and they say, um, "We want you to be on campus," the answer is yes.
Then you figure everything out from there.
Zach Stanley: Yeah. Since you started eight months ago, is there any, like- Anything you can h- help us dig into as far as scale, numbers, insight? Have you seen it take w- with this location? Like h- how, how are things going so far?
Josh Saffran: I mean, knock on wood, I mean, I couldn't be happier.
I mean, the- Yeah ... we're, we're... the member count is continuing to grow. The feedback has been incredible.
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: Uh, we're starting to f- get people that are utilizing the business lounge, which is probably, uh, on my radar to continue to figure out how to utilize this room a little bit more often. Right. Uh, as new businesses are opening, like we're excited Flyway's supposed to open soon- Mm
which is gonna help the post five o'clock traffic.
Zach Stanley: Yep.
Josh Saffran: Um, a lot of the campus closes, you know, 4:30, five o'clock, and our barber shop's open till 8:00. Yep. And so when, when the brewery opens, people are not drinking beer most likely at two o'clock on a Tuesday. Yeah. Yeah. We would expect that that's gonna help the evening traffic here.
So Walmart's been great. They've been a fantastic partner. Mm-hmm. When we have an issue, question, or concern, they're very fast to respond, [00:36:00] which I wasn't sure that was gonna be the case. I mean, they've been wonderful to work with. Mm-hmm. And as the campus continues to grow and fill out, there's gonna be more and more people coming here.
Brian Wagers: Well, what was it like being part of this, uh, development to... and any kind of numbers that you can share as far as tenant improvement, that you had to do some of this yourself and kind of rents that you're seeing that you're paying too?
Josh Saffran: Yeah, I, I didn't really know. I mean, I, I know Walmart is a landlord 'cause they have tenants in their, in their brick and mortar, in their footprint, you know, whether it's the Smart Styles or the taco shop or whatever, so I'm sure they're doing that.
Mm. But I think this was a whole new initiative for them.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: And we really went back and forth with them, and I think what was exciting was- They know that they needed these business to be successful. Mm-hmm. Like, it's a bad look if six months in the business saying, "I can't afford to pay my rent, and I, I'm not driving enough business," and all of a sudden there's a commercial real estate sign out front saying, "Hey, we need a new tenant here."
Yeah. So they were very clear that we wanna help you guys be successful. Mm-hmm. [00:37:00] And that really made us feel good. Yeah. I mean, and I, I don't think anybody had thought about, at least on our side, I mean, we built this into the lower level footprint of a multi-level parking garage. Mm-hmm. So there were a lot of things that we didn't even think about as we were doing construction, which added some costs about spray foam for the ceiling for sound and vibration.
Mm-hmm. Like, it was a whole new initiative, and Walmart was very collaborative during the process. I mean, again, they know that these businesses have to be successful for many, many reasons. One, for the associates- Mm-hmm ... that wanna use them, but two, it's not a good look if you're opening 30-plus, uh, businesses on campus and half of them close because the demands for rent and cost are outweigh the revenue coming in.
Yeah. So they've been great partners.
Brian Wagers: Yeah, I think, uh, I guess we could expand more on that, how it opened your eyes to the commercial real estate development. You know, we were actually in this, uh, private room talking about a retail development project we had going on, and you had some insight from being involved in this on-campus project on, uh, some of those tenant improvements and [00:38:00] some of the, you know, triple net structure.
So how has that kinda opened your eyes to the commercial real estate and structure there?
Josh Saffran: I, I, again, I think when you're working with a landlord and you're working with somebody that owns the building, and in any negotiation you need a win-win-win. Like, you need a... Like, you have to... The landlord has to be able to make money on what they're putting out or otherwise it makes no sense.
Mm-hmm. And but the business has to be able to make money and be able to afford to pay the rent. Mm-hmm. And you guys drive around town here, and with all the new commercial real estate going up, there's plenty of opportunities- Yep ... to when your five-year, uh, ends, right, your lease agreement, I can pick up and go somewhere else.
Like, I have the right to do that. The landlord has the right to not, not wanna renew with me either. Mm-hmm. So there's so much commercial real estate going here that you really want to ensure that you have a good relationship where the landlord is super happy and the tenant's super happy. Mm-hmm. And again, we've been very pleased with the way that that relationship's gone here.
If something is wrong, we pick up the phone and call Walmart, and within hours we get a response and help. Um, [00:39:00] but I think going back to your point, which is on the financial piece, um- I- if Walmart would have come to us or any landlord would have come and said, "This is the rent, and it's gonna be $25,000 a month," I mean, how do you, you know, how, how do you...
You can't win that way, you know? Mm-hmm. And then you look at opening a Gents Place in some of these markets where commercial real estate rent is 3X, 2X what it is here. Mm-hmm. I mean, I know how much revenue it takes to be profitable here, and you look around and you say, like, "That's really hard to do."
Zach Stanley: Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: Really hard to do.
Zach Stanley: 100%. We're gonna transition into, like, asking some investing questions, and then we got a fire round for you. Um, over the years you've done a bunch of stuff, uh, let's say 25 years ago, starting with your, um... I forgot the guy's name up in New York, uh, your financial advisor. Joe
Josh Saffran: Tomorrow.
Zach Stanley: Joe Tomorrow. Shout out to Joe Tomorrow. Shout
Josh Saffran: out to Joe D.
Zach Stanley: Um, but if you're, you're taking your philosophy then from investing to now, how has it changed over that 25 years? Or has it changed? Y- y- And that's okay if it hasn't.
Josh Saffran: Well, I, I think the importance [00:40:00] of telling people new in your career, you need to be maxing out your 401.
Brian Wagers: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: If you're not doing that, you're s- you're silly. Mm-hmm. I mean, I understand that, well, I gotta pay my bills, and I gotta buy a car, and I gotta go get new clothes for work and... But the reality of the situation is there is disposable income that people are making that they're spending on $8 cups of coffee and, right, the $20 sandwich for lunch or whatever it is, and if you're putting 100 bucks away into your 401or your retirement, your Roth IRA, whatever vehicle that you're trying to do at the time, um, you will be shocked at how much that compounds over years.
And you can go pull it up in Gemini or, or ChatGPT, right? If I invested $1,000 at age 22 every month versus starting at 35-
Brian Wagers: Yeah ...
Josh Saffran: it's, it's insane, and it's facts. Mm-hmm. Right? And so I, I think that's just so important that people are paying attention to. S- start thinking long-term investments as early in your career as you possibly can.
And I was super proud of my son. He said to me, "Dad, um, I wanna pull money out of my savings account, and I wanna start investing in a Charles Schwab account." He [00:41:00] said this at 19.
Zach Stanley: That's
Josh Saffran: great. I wasn't thinking that way at 19. And so he showed me the other day, he's, like, up 50%.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: And it's, you know, it's not tens of thousands, but it's he...
And he's so proud. Right. And he's looking at his investments, and he put some money in Nvidia, and he put some money here, and he... I'm like, "That's great." Yeah. Like, that's the mindset that you need at that age, and I don't think I was thinking that way at 20. Yeah. And that probably cost me a big part of why, you know, why I don't have as much money in my retirement as I'd like to have today.
Zach Stanley: Yeah. I mean, think about the compound interest at 19 versus 29 or 39. So it's
Josh Saffran: incredible. Yes. It's absolutely- But they're not seeing that, well, 65 is so far down the road. Yeah. But the reality is maybe you retire at 55 in that example because you've been starting so much earlier.
Brian Wagers: Yes. Gaining back years.
Just final question before we get into the fire round here. What, what principles have mattered most in building wealth over time?
Josh Saffran: Um, I, I think, again, as, as I talked earlier, like not trying to make a, a buck quick. Um, I'll probably tell you one of my early, my 25-year-old horror [00:42:00] stories where, you know, you're investing in the pink sheets and you're investing in the, the penny stocks.
And you're saying, "Oh, this stock's cost, you know, 87 cents, but imagine if it goes to $10." Well, it's 87 cents for a reason, right? Yeah, I know. I mean, like, there's, there's a reason that it's 87 cents. And so I think you just have to be disciplined. I think that you have to understand that you're gonna make mistakes.
Mm-hmm. Learn from those mistakes. Uh, I think not paying attention to your portfolio every day is really important because when the stock market goes down or, or housing prices go down and you're looking at it, it's all paper. It's not real money at the moment- Yeah ... right? And so you have to just be real disciplined to understand it's a long game and pay attention, uh, diversify as much as you possibly can.
You know, I try to-- trying to get people here in this community that are so heavily invested in real estate. I got a few friends like, "Hey, I got 100% of my money in real estate."
Brian Wagers: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: It's like, whoa. Yeah. I mean, it's great when it's great, but like, hey, why not invest in some technology? Yeah. Why not invest in some of these startups?
And so- Mm-hmm ... well, I'm not comfortable doing that 'cause I don't know what I'm doing in this space. Mm-hmm. And so I'm just gonna invest in what I'm comfortable in, which is good. And for most people re- investing [00:43:00] in real estate's been great.
Zach Stanley: Yep.
Josh Saffran: But you never know what tomorrow's gonna bring. And so it's really important to be thinking about these other spots to put your money because you, you need to be mindful that not everything goes up all the time.
Zach Stanley: Yeah. Last five years have been anything but normal, and it's not very typical for... I mean, uh, we were just talking in our brokerage meeting the other day about how in Oklahoma you'll-- or these, these other markets, you'll own a home for 10 years, and it'll go from 115 to 130,000 in 10 years. Yeah. Like, that's...
That, that, and what we've seen here is crazy. Yes. Like, at-- people need to know it's crazy.
Josh Saffran: Right. 'Cause I think Florida now, I mean, there's a ton of homes on the market, and values are down. Mm-hmm. And like, so if I'm gonna buy a $500,000 home and six months later it's worth 350,000, again, paper money, but you sure as heck aren't gonna s-sell it at that point.
Yeah. Right? So then, like, so it's really important to understand what's happening. And to your guys' point, and you know it better than me, this market in real estate has been hot for a long time.
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm. It's not gonna stay hot like that forever. It's not
Josh Saffran: possible to
Zach Stanley: stay this hot. And I'm see- I'm seeing it, like, [00:44:00] kinda flatten out and peop- and sellers are going crazy.
And it's like, no, this is... We're, we're, we're trending back to normal. Like, we have not been normal, and I'm actually kinda glad to see it, like, going a little down. Sellers are thinking it's all the agents' faults right now. It's really just your house is priced high. They'll, they'll go through a cycle to think it's the agent's fault, then it'll go back to-- then they'll finally realize, oh, it's just the market, and then they'll hire the same agent again.
So, um, we're gonna get into the fire round real quick here. Okay. Um, biggest mistake entrepreneurs make scaling.
Josh Saffran: There's a couple ones. I think the, the easiest one for me to say, and I sit with founders, I just had multiple meetings here this week, is to diversify your team.
Zach Stanley: Mm-hmm.
Josh Saffran: I'll sit in a meeting, and there'll be three engineers, nerdy, smart guys, and I'm like, "What are you guys doing on marketing?" And they're all looking around at each other.
Or, "What-- Do you have a fractional CFO?" Like... And they're all... But they got the-- they built the coolest widget of all time.
Zach Stanley: Yeah.
Josh Saffran: Or I got a sales guy that's sitting in the room, and [00:45:00] he couldn't tell you how the product's being built. He just wants to sell and push it. And so I think, you know, I got an- another guy who's a buddy who says, "I don't wanna hire all these people, but I'm gonna ask the same question in ChatGPT- Mm-hmm
as if it was looking for a, a CFO response and a CMO response." And so make sure you diversify your thinking and the people you're surrounding yourself with. Mm-hmm. Try to have a yin for your yang and try to have somebody that balances out where your strengths are. Uh, I've seen too many people that are just comfortable in working with their friends, and their friends have very similar skill sets.
Mm-hmm. Which is great, but it also is blinding you to all the other stuff that you're not paying attention to. That's a great point. So be diverse in the people that you're surrounding yourself with, whether it's employees, founders, fractional folks, or mentors. Mm. Get people with a different vision than you have because otherwise you're gonna miss out on a lot of things.
Brian Wagers: That's great insight. Most underrated business skill.
Josh Saffran: Uh, a million percent is networking, and in this town it's networking. Mm-hmm. And I've gotten to know you through multiple different people. Like, our paths [00:46:00] hadn't really crossed a lot, which was... But, you know, I know through Mike Dooley and through other people, and then you start to engage, and now I'm thinking, "All right.
How do I connect you with others?" Because again, in this town, that's super, super important. Mm-hmm. Um, if you're not out having coffee meetings once or twice a week or you're not having lunch meetings or you're not connecting with new people, and you pay it forward because it's the right thing to do.
Mm-hmm. I may not be able to solve your problem, but let me introduce you to other people who can help. It will come back to you in spades. Like, people will come find you when they need you. Um, in this town, if you're not networking and you're not engaging authentically- Doing the right thing ... you're totally missing out.
Zach Stanley: Mm. Amazing. Uh, best investment you've made.
Josh Saffran: Uh, I w-- if I said marrying my wife, is that, would that be okay? That would be,
Zach Stanley: that would be.
Josh Saffran: Well, and I think it's important- Mm-hmm ... because I had this vision for this business. Mm-hmm. But I also told you guys early on that I, I knew from my dad's past, like, not to leave my day job.
And so when Emily and I got married, I said, "Hey, I'm gonna continue to work in, [00:47:00] in this, in Plug and Play and do these things, and I need you to step away from your nursing job and run this business." And we wouldn't be successful at The Gents Place without her doing it. So I think, again, investing in relationships.
Mm-hmm. This was the most important one that has led to the success of The Gents Place by far.
Zach Stanley: I 100% agree. I love this. Biggest business partner.
Brian Wagers: Yeah. Okay, if you were starting over today, no network, no platform, no existing business, what would you focus on first?
Josh Saffran: Starting today with no network, no pl... Ooh, God.
Mm-hmm. Um, I had a buddy that just moved here, a New Yorker, with the New... like the stereotypical New Yorker with the accent. Like, just super fast, super char- hard-charging, high pace, um- And I've had to give him counsel, like, "Hey, like dial it back a bit." And, and he's do- And he's great. He's fantastic, and he is doing
He is starting, he's building his network. He's going out to Million Cups, and he's going out. And so if you have no network, this is a really easy town to go out and build that. And I think, again, that's the first place you should start, and then [00:48:00] the business results and relationships will come with it. So he's three months in, and I just met with him the other day, and he's now found his people, and he's now found his purpose.
But it was a lot of hard work to start to figure out where he fits in coming from New York to here.
Zach Stanley: Yeah. Love it. Is there anything that you would like to plug here at the end of the podcast? Anything fun, exciting on your mind or ...
Josh Saffran: Yeah, I think, um, we talked a little bit about community. Mm-hmm. Um, part of what we do here at the barbershop, um, we realized that we can give back, and a lot of our members are, are well off or well-to-do and have money to, to donate but just don't know where to, what to do with it.
Mm-hmm. And so, uh, The Gents Place is very focused internally on veterans. Mm. And so we do like a big, uh, in September, October, we do a big, uh, Operation Gentleman it's called. Okay. We're having guys come in and, and donate suits like you're wearing right now- Mm-hmm ... lightly used, and we send that off to Fort Hood for veterans that are coming out and looking for jobs.
Mm. So we're really focused on veterans. Yeah. And that then my wife and I decided about five years ago to start our own 501[c][3]. [00:49:00] It's called, uh, Gents Giving. We do a charity event, uh, in November either the Thursday before or Thursday after Veterans Day. This year it's November 12th after Veterans Day. And we'll put about 150 people in a room drinking high-end allocated bourbon, so almost like a Thanksgiving type setting- Yeah
with steak and shrimp dinner, and we'll donate $100,000 net proceeds, 50,000 to a veterans charity, a different one each year, and $50,000 to pancreatic cancer.
Zach Stanley: Wow.
Josh Saffran: And so tickets are gonna go on sale soon. Um, it's a wonderful event, and, uh, we really want people to continue to support the type of stuff like that that we're doing here in the community.
Zach Stanley: How can people buy those tickets?
Josh Saffran: Uh, it's gentsgivingnwa.com I think- Okay ... or find Gents Giving on Instagram. Yeah. Um, uh, we already have ... We haven't even started yet, uh, with ticket sales, and we have multiple tables already pre-booked. Wow. Like, that's how, that's how the demand for this thing has gone in the last few years.
Zach Stanley: Josh, loved having you on the podcast. You're great. You have your own podcast as well. You spoke well, and we're really thankful to have you on.
Josh Saffran: Yeah, thank you for having [00:50:00] me.