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Garage to Stadiums is one of the Top 5% of podcasts in the world. From the bars to the arenas, learn the fascinating stories of how our biggest rock music legends made the leap. Each episode reveals the stories, songs and little known facts of the journey from obscurity to fame of one of rock music’s biggest stars. Join us on Garage To Stadiums as host Dave Anthony teams up with an author of a rock biography or director of a rock documentary to explore that journey, their early years, the stories behind the scenes, their top songs, and their place in music history.
Learn about the passion, talent, luck and even scandal that often came together to propel these stars from obscurity to household names.
Speaker 1 0:02
Hi there. I'm Dave Anthony and this is the garage to stadiums podcast. On each episode we tell you the story of how one of our music legends rose from obscurity to fame and play some of the songs that mark that journey
David Anthony 0:18
Welcome to garage two stadiums. Today's story is about the band Rush. Rush is a Canadian band hailing from Toronto, Canada and consists of lead singer Geddy Lee guitarist Alex Lifeson and drummer Neil here, and this is a band known for its loyal legion of fans worldwide attracted to the precision musicianship of this band whether on record or in concert rushes third, behind only the Beatles and The Rolling Stones in number of consecutive gold or platinum albums. And to talk about rush and its journey is Sam Dunn, an award winning documentary filmmaker Sam's first film metal a headbangers journey premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival in 2005, and has become the definitive documentary on heavy metal music and culture. He's also won the prestigious 2016 Peabody Award and International Emmy Award for his work on the Netflix original series Hip Hop evolution. Some of the bands that Sam's covered in his docs include ZZ Top Iron Maiden, and Alice Cooper. Sam's documentary, entitled rush beyond the latest stage made its debut at the 2010 Tribeca Film Festival, where during the 2010 Audience Award, the film was also nominated for Best long form music video at the 53rd Grammy Awards, and features an array of rock luminaries commenting on the band rock. Sam, welcome to garage to stadiums.
Unknown Speaker 1:50
Thank you, Dave. Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 1:52
All right, let's first talk Sam about banger films and your incredible array of projects, films, etc. What was the inspiration to start banger?
Speaker 2 2:03
Well, I co founded banger with my business partner, Scott McFadden in 2004. And it all began with an insane idea, which was that a smart in depth documentary should and could be made about heavy metal music and culture, which at that time, for many people seemed like an absurd idea. But lo and behold, took us three years to raise the money two years to make the film. And the film premiered at TIFF 2005. And basically started us on this path of making documentaries and series firstly, with big rock and metal music artists like Russian, Alice Cooper and Iron Maiden and others. And then pivoting into doing series on genres in metal, hip hop, K, pop, pop, and on so started with that idea that film about a style of music that's pretty polarizing could be done in a way that could both be attractive to the fans who love and know the music, and accessible enough that it could appeal to a broader audience. We realized, well, if guys like Getty or Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath, or Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden or Alice Cooper are appreciating the way we're approaching this, then well, maybe there's opportunities to tell their their stories. So, you know, one of the bands from that first film that really deserved the big story and no rush was right at the top of the list.
Speaker 1 3:38
That's so cool. That first low budget film you guys did that was so successful, almost was a sampler pack for what was about to come through the entire career. And taking that point, you feature a number of rock luminaries in the rush documentary, Rush beyond the latest stage. It's an incredible array of people that are in this one. Gene Simmons of Kiss, Billy Corgan, Smashing Pumpkins, Kurt Hammett, Metallica, Trent Reznor, Nine Inch Nails, Taylor Hawkins, Foo Fighters, I mean, a wide range of of genres, even in that guest list. And so while Rush was not a band that was loved by the critics, it's incredible, the effusive praise that all of these guys keep on to rush, what was the common view that, you know, they had of, of rush? Well,
Speaker 2 4:31
I think for those musicians, there's two things. One is just the undeniable musical prowess and talent of that band. So, you know, many, many a young person grows up wanting to be the next Neal peered, wanting to be the next Geddy Lee and wanting to be the next Alice life lesson. So there's that musical side of it that just appeals to young people. All, who just wants to become the best at their instrument that they possibly can. And that's very powerful. And it was powerful for me even though I didn't go on to be a professional musician, I grew up playing the bass guitar, and I sat my bedroom hitting, you know, stop, rewind, play, stop, rewind play on my cassette deck, trying to learn how to play Geddy Lee parts, so I can I could relate to that. I think the other big piece is rush, have had a very unique ability to do their own thing and not bow not accommodate the wishes of the mainstream the wishes of commercial interests, etc. And they are one of those very rare artists who have had long careers and have completely done it their own way, all the way through. Yeah. And I don't think there's a lot of artists that tick that box. I mean, Bowie would be an obvious other example. And there's probably others as well, but in the rock world, Rush occupy a very unique place and that they, they just said no to any outside influence on how they were going to make their music, how long the songs were going to be, how, how elaborate and ornate, their lyrical content was going to be, et cetera. And I think for musicians that you mentioned, that's like the gold standard. Yeah,
Speaker 1 6:33
that's a great point. The point about the musicianship in particular, if anyone in the audience is is seen rush live. I mean, this is a note for note band. When you see these guys, it's like listening. You're you've got the crowd with you, which is great. But man, these guys are not just phoning it in. This is note for note playing these awesome songs. And that certainly came through when you talk to those guys. Let's go back to the beginning. Where did the guys in rush Alex Lifeson Geddy Lee, Neil Pierre, where did they grow up? What was their family life like Getty
Speaker 2 7:10
and Alex, were the sons of immigrant families that that grew up in the neighborhood Willowdale in the north of Toronto, which at that time, as I understand was a brand new suburb in the 50s, and 60s, you know, you go any north of any further north of Willowdale, and it was farmland, which, of course, for those of people that know the geography of the Greater Toronto Area, that's no longer the case. The suburban sprawl goes on for kilometres beyond that now, but that was the neighborhood that they grew up, I suppose, in many ways, kind of a classic post war, largely immigrant neighborhood, Neil, quite differently grew up in the farmlands of, of Southern Ontario. His father ran a farm equipment dealership. And so his upbringing was, was quite different in a lot of ways than then then Gideon Aleksis.
Speaker 1 8:16
Yeah. Didn't get his parents meet in a concentration camp during the war, and eventually survived, came to Canada. And then they opened a convenience store and his dad died at an early age. And, in fact, Gettys name Geddy Lee comes from his real name, which is Gary weinrib. And his Polish mother had a difficult time saying Gary, and it came out as Getty. And then of course, his school friends started calling him Getty and it stuck in when he was looking for a stage name. He, in fact, combined his middle name Lee with that moniker Getty and came up with Geddy Lee, where did they start first playing like How old were they? Well,
Speaker 2 9:07
Getty and Alex met in junior high school, I think around the age of 14 or 15. Wow. Their first shows were in, you know, church basements, community hall basements, probably a few, you know, high school parties, in in and around, you know, the northern Toronto suburban area, that's a really cut their teeth.
Speaker 1 9:34
These guys are 19 or 20. And they're in it's in the early 70s. They're playing bars six nights a week in Toronto. I mean, they can barely get into bars, but they're in their plan, six nights a week, and something incredible happens. And tell us about what that was and how it broke rush into the next level.
Speaker 2 9:55
Yeah, well, the big breakthrough moment. That that re Lee put rush into a much bigger conversation was the result of a of a woman named Donna Halper based who is a DJ in Cleveland? Who played working man on the radio, right. And the short version of the story is the phone didn't stop ringing. I think the joke goes, you know, is you know, is that, you know, is that the new Led Zeppelin song? Yeah, the name started to grow. And it it sort of paved the way then for the band to start touring throughout that that area of the United States. And it was really, that radio combined with those early touring days that that that really broke that really broke rush.
Speaker 1 11:28
You can see why working man would work in a working class blue collar town like Cleveland was in the 1970s. In fact, Sam that opening riff pan that sounds like an industrial machine in a factory. Yeah,
Speaker 2 11:42
it's, that's a super heavy song, you know, that's emblematic of Rush, as we were talking about earlier of really being inspired by the Zeppelin's and the who's and that that late 60s, early 70s, early 70s rock sound right, like that's where that song is coming from. It's about it's probably the most straightforward rush tune ever created. We all know that. They're, they, they they go off on a on a on a vast musical adventure. It's a much more experimental territory. But the you know, that work, that working man tune is about as bread and butter as it gets for rush.
Speaker 1 12:21
So imagine, you know, for those of you listening, who have kids, or maybe you're this age, but they're 19, or 20. And this song breaks, as Sam said, the Midwest, they're put on the opening act circuit for bands like kiss and Manfred Mann and Uriah Heep. And you're 20 years old, now you're playing not the bars in Toronto, but 10 to 15,000 people every night. It's just incredible.
Speaker 2 12:49
As you say, they really started to hit their stride in those early days of touring, touring the Midwest, and you know, playing loud, heavy, aggressive, musically dense, or rock music, but they were the furthest thing. From what you it's a band who plays that music to be like, you know, and that's what Jane gets at Jean gets out in our film is, you know, these guys were not out partying and hanging out with, with girls. It's gene jokes. I think he says, you know, they were in their rooms, hotel rooms, reading books. You know, that just gets to the uniqueness of this band in many ways on the surface. They were another. You know, they were another 70s Hard Rock Band, but they were they were different. And they were setting their sights. Ultimately, we now know on far more ambitious and frankly, kind of intellectual territory when it comes to what they wanted to do with with their music. How
Speaker 1 13:59
would you describe each of Getty, Neil and Alex in terms of personalities?
Speaker 2 14:04
Oh, wow. That's a great question in as small a nutshell as I can put them in. I mean, you know, Getty firstly, my sense of Getty is that he's tremendously ambitious, highly a highly motivated individual to understand and absorb as much of the world around him as he possibly can. Right. So he's very driven to be the best possible bass player he can be. He's very driven to know as much as he can about baseball. He's driven to know as much as he can about wine and photography and and on and on. So that's Getty to me, Alex is probably the funniest person I've ever met. Hands down, and it's something that a lot of people don't know about, Alex
Speaker 1 14:59
Wow. Oh, the funniest guy you've ever met that saying something. I understand Alex's real name is Alex Zavod. Genomic and his parents immigrated from Yugoslavia, the former Yugoslavia. And of course, he changed his name to Alex Lifeson for the purposes of touring with Rush,
Speaker 2 15:16
Alex. You know, my impression of Alex is that he is, firstly a fantastic guitar player plays a very interesting role in that band musically because Getty and Neil are such busy. No dance players. And
Unknown Speaker 15:37
Alex and Alex, Alex is underrated as a guitar player. In my mind,
Speaker 2 15:41
I think Alex brings frankly, like a lot of the taste to to Russia's music. He's the one in many ways, and people often probably won't see it this way. That's, that's kind of brave enough to sit back and just layer on what needs to be layered on to the music, which I really admire him for. And I don't think he gets enough credit for that. Because, frankly, if he was ripping on as many notes as the other two, I don't know, if Russia's music, nearly as listenable as it as it is, Neil rest in peace. Yeah, the poet in a drummer and drummers clothing, you know, he's a deep intellectual. He's a deep reader. He's a deep observer of the world around him. I speak in the present tense, because I feel like he's still here because of the legacy of music that he's left behind. Right.
Unknown Speaker 16:37
So absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 16:39
He is. He's probably got the biggest brain of any musician. I've had the opportunity to meet. And I've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of musicians over the last 20 years. So, Neil, Neil, is that he is he is a deep intellectual, lyricist, and probably the if not one of the most best rock drummers ever walked the planet. Yeah,
Speaker 1 17:08
he definitively comes up in everyone's list, it seems. There's been a number of significant challenges the band has faced, after that initial success with working man from watching the film. You know, they put out a couple of albums that are not that well received after that album, that first album that the Cleveland station had discovered. And the crowds start to dwindle to show up to see these guys. And what happens next is really interesting and resulted in a turning point. And effectively, it sounds like the record company, sort of put these guys up against the wall and said, Okay, guys, this is it. What's it gonna be? Because we need something to move some product here. And the band has an interesting response.
Speaker 2 17:58
Yeah, well, I think this arguably, is probably the most important moment in Russia's career. After that initial album, their music gets increasingly experimental, and they start really pushing themselves as musicians. Importantly, you know, the original drummer John ROTC, who is on the first rush album, leaves the band. And he's replaced by Neil on the second record, which is an enormously important moment in this band story, of course, because it kind of opens this vast opportunity to kind of basically create whatever they want, because Neil is so tremendously talented on the drums. But what happens is, by the time they get to the album, caress of steel, which, you know, I think Getty jokes in the film, I think we were pretty high when we made that record is that they've really pushed themselves to the outer limits of experimentation and progressive rock to the point where maybe, you know, they're starting to push it too far. And and and there's no semblance as you say, of a working man, the band that made working then several years earlier, it seems to have left the building and they get put under pressure by the label. Now the label is saying things like we want to hit we want we can you guys like put some like a bad company song. This is the were the labels out of that time.
Speaker 1 19:37
Yeah. And keep in mind, these guys are still what? 21 probably at the time, like, I mean, you'd think that the record company says jump and a 21 year old is gonna go yes, I will deliver sir.
Speaker 2 19:48
Yeah, they're they're right in their early early 20s. This is 1975 I believe. Christopher Steele comes out. Anyway. The The most important word was what rush said to the record label. And they said, No. And they set their sights on creating, which still to this day is probably the most important record in the story of Rush not necessarily the most commercially successful. But of course, that album is 2112. Right? And 2112 still stands as one of the most and ambitious and successful which is key Rock Albums of All Time. You know, famously, one side of the record is one song, including several movements, Allah a classical composition. And the other important thing that happens of course is not only that they say no, but the audience says yes in response to that music. And this is the moment when rush earns their complete musical freedom, right for the rest of their career. From now on, Rush does things the way they want to and that's the way it's going to be and so that's you know, that's why 2112 is such an important album in the rush story.
Speaker 1 22:24
Van goes on to release a trio of albums that puts them into the top rock acts of the late 70s as it yield songs like closer to the heart.
Speaker 1 23:17
That was followed by another key song spirit of radio.
Speaker 1 23:54
Sam next comes kind of the killer Pinnacle album in 1981. When the guys are still like they're in their late 20s And they've got all the success. But man, this next album is the one that if you were in high school at the time, everybody talked about this album, the songs from it which we're going to play a couple of Tom Sawyer limelight. Tell us about that incredible album moving pictures like what what did it do for this band?
Speaker 2 24:27
Well moving pictures of course Stan's is you know, the most well known album by rush to this day. This is the moment when they start to draw on other musical influences than the kind of classic rock and early heavy metal. The songs get shorter. They get a little leaner, if you will. The the keyboards become a bigger part of the actual bedrock of the songs. It's not just guitar riffs that are driving music anymore. And, you know, you alluded to the fact that you know, after this after what they've done on 2112, they push themselves even further out into the outer reaches of, of progressive rock, particularly on the album hemispheres and songs like Livia, stron, Giotto, where they were now creating songs that they could barely even pull off in the studio, like it kind of the, you know, the fingers were bleeding to the point where they're like, Okay, you know, let's take the foot off the gas here.
Speaker 1 25:30
And then that's it. I guess that speaks to the course correction that they constantly seem to do they go down a path, they course correct to place these guys in any genre is difficult, because they keep adapting.
Speaker 2 25:41
Yeah. And so, you know, the songs you mentioned, like closer to the heart spirit of radio, and perhaps most famously, Tom Sawyer, you know, are, are products of that new mentality that Russia is bringing to their music, you know, leaner, shorter, more direct, less meandering, less experimental, all of that kind of stuff. And, you know, as Neil says, in our documentary, all of a sudden, you had kids walking down the high school halls saying, Hey, have you heard the new rush song? Have you got the new rush album? And as I think he puts it, you know, it's like, that's actually the moment and by possibly the only moment that in quote unquote cool to load to love rush, right, because those songs that I mentioned, are like getting heavy, heavy, heavy rotation on rock radio, and if you've got a radio on in 1981, you're pretty much guaranteed to hear those songs. Yeah, pitchers is the next step forward. Because it's It's the moment when rush becomes a full on popular band in the mainstream.
Speaker 1 27:24
We just heard the song Tom Sawyer, the incredible lyrics of Neil pure the synthesizers of Getty, Alex, as you said, filling it in and making it sort of palatable. That song was everywhere in that era, and I've even heard the Foo Fighters sing that song, they love that song. If you want to see a funny version of the song Tom Sawyer, check out the movie I love you, man, starring Paul Rudd and Jason Segel. There's a hilarious scene where they both ride together on one Vespas singing the tin and what's interesting there's another tune that I think is a clue to the personalities in this band in particular Neil and that song is limelight.
Unknown Speaker 28:35
Stage approaches the
Unknown Speaker 28:45
Gilded
Speaker 2 28:55
Age I think this signals a trance formation or a shift in the subject matter of Neil's lyrics, you know, for many, many albums, the subject matter has been fantastical, very literary, very lofty, lyrical matter. Now, I think it's almost like the lyrics are becoming more earthly and and autobiographical. They start to become more about what's going on around them or in their own lives. And specifically, Limelight really kind of echoes what we talked about earlier, which is that this is not a band that does what they do because they want all of the trappings that usually come with being a rock star. In fact, they're in many ways the complete opposite of that, particularly Neil, who is making this movie Music, principally because he wants to make the music. And this may seem like a kind of minutia anecdote, but I think it speaks to something larger that when they recorded albums like Neil's favorite part was rehearsing and putting the songs together. And then as soon as he laid the track down in the studio, it's like I'm done. It was Getty and Alex. And as far as I understand, largely Getty, who would spend days and days and days in the studio, tweaking and perfecting, and working on the nuances of the sound, and the production and the levels and all of that stuff. It's the doing of the music that's most important. And everything else around it is kind of uninteresting, or on inspiring to him. And I think that that's kind of what Limelight is getting at, in my view. Where
Speaker 1 30:48
would you say rush sit, Sam, in music history? What will they be remembered for? You know, the documentary does a good job of telling what others thought, but where do you think they sit? It's funny, Gene Simmons says, people always go, what are they? Are they this? Are they that are they and he goes, they're just rush, man.
Speaker 2 31:07
I mean, on one hand, I think rush will always be known as this band that just had the guts to push music, as far as it could be pushed within the wrong context. You know, churt, such tremendous musical ambition. I think the part of rush that doesn't get highlighted enough. And I think really what they need, should be recognized for now and into the future is, is, is actually a tremendous integrity and tremendous work ethic. Because I've had the, you know, the wonderful opportunity to spend time with them. Especially recently with Getty. These guys work very, very hard. And I and it's maybe a mundane answer, but it's an it's an answer that isn't given very often, because maybe it's not that sexy. It's not that appealing. But there's a tremendous amount of grit. There's a tremendous amount of kind of old fashioned working class, like, this is what we do for a living. And there's also a tremendous business acumen that doesn't get talked about very often. Either, that that's interesting. That's interesting, a lot of really good decisions along the way. It's a band that was very well managed, as well. And I don't think it's those aspects of the band's career that get highlighted enough, but as I've spent more time with them, and had a chance to have hindsight on working with them on the on the documentary now, I think it's, it's, it's those aspects, the work ethic, the business acumen and the integrity. That is really what made rush who they are.
Speaker 1 32:59
That's a interesting answer. You know, it really speaks to these bands are really entrepreneurs at the end of the day, and they're on this journey where they have to adapt and they have to, you know, adapt to the market conditions, they have to do their thing they have to put in the work. And, you know, in terms of success, it's interesting. Well, the critics may have said, well, you know, the prog rock, progressive rock, whatever, you know, the fans vote with their dollars and rush, as we said at the beginning has the third most consecutive gold platinum studio homes by a rock band, topped only by the Beatles and The stones. So that's called a successful business. 40 million albums sold is estimate, if you wanted to give the folks listening, your all time. Three picks I know it's hard that they can choose to listen to now we'll have a more in depth garage to stadiums playlist for folks at our website. But I want to hear the SAM Dunn three picks that he would say reflect rush to him to big
Speaker 2 34:09
catalog Dave. I would pick I'd like to pick a few songs that span across the catalogue. The first song that comes to mind is an instrumental and Slavia strong Giotto off of hemispheres. Alex's guitar solo in that song I think is one of the most beautiful parts of any rush song and maybe doesn't talked about enough
Speaker 1 35:12
Yeah, people may not have listened to that that may be a lesser known song, which
Speaker 2 35:17
is always been one of my favorite rush tunes. It just represents rush at the peak. So, so many songs to choose from, but a song I'd like to pick is also a song that maybe doesn't get talked about much. It's off of moving pictures, but it's the last song in the album called Vital Signs. Yes,
Speaker 1 35:39
that's a cool tune. I didn't know I didn't know anyone else knew that song. So I'm just lucky to hear it.
Speaker 2 35:46
I may be biased because I'm a massive police fan. And this is their most obvious tip of the hat to the police that you could possibly imagine.
Speaker 2 36:28
Sometimes, it's just such a shift in their their sound. And I think they pull it off really, really well. It's got that kind of lean power trio vibe to it. And it's got beautiful, the vocal work on that song I think is beautiful. You know, people talk about Tom Sawyer and limelight and red bar Jetta and all the other songs out that album. But the last track vital signs is tremendous. And I think it speaks to the fact that that's why that album is so incredible is because all of the songs on that album are so strong. So yeah, we'll signs would be my my other pick, I pick a song off the album counterparts. And this is in the 90s when, after moving into a very keyboard heavy direction in the band there another
Speaker 1 37:17
another move a little too far and see and then they kind of reeled it back and they returned
Speaker 2 37:23
to a much more rock field on counterparts. And I've always loved the opening track animate on that on that album.
Speaker 2 38:00
Animate I think is a song that kind of represents rush into the 90s, which doesn't get talked about very much. But yeah, it's always been a favorite of mine.
Speaker 1 38:10
Sam, this is kind of our final question. Tell us a little bit about the latest project that Bangor films has been working on.
Speaker 2 38:17
Yeah, well, we have a lot of shows in in production or in development of banger which is too early to mention. But we do have a show on Paramount plus that stars Geddy Lee from rush. And the title of the show is perhaps the longest title in the history of television which of course is apropos because it's about a member of rush. And it's called Geddy Lee asks our bass players human to and essentially it's a it's a travel show where each episode get he goes to meet with one of his favorite bases and spends time talking about a bit about music and a bit about the base but it's it's largely about what these bases do in their off time. And so the episodes are on les Claypool from Primus, Rob Tokyo from Metallica, Chris Nova salvage of Nirvana and Melissa Alomar who played bass in hole and smashing pumpkins. So it's a it's a fun travel show with Getty that we're super proud of, and I think shows the side of Getty, which is beyond the masterful bass playing in the music side of him and really shows him as just a really interesting person that has infinite curiosity about the world around him.
Unknown Speaker 39:37
I really appreciate this.
Unknown Speaker 39:39
Thank you, Dave. Pleasure to be here.
David Anthony 39:46
Special thanks to Sam, our guest today who produced and directed rush beyond the latest stage, and some closing notes on Rush. You can catch the rush induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on YouTube. The foo fighters in ducted them and there's a great video of Dave Grohl on Taylor Hawkins of the foods playing that 2112 piece, complete with 70s wigs and rock outfits. If you want some recent clips of Rush playing without Neal peered there is that video of them playing the Taylor Hawkins tribute with Dave Grohl and also Chad Smith of the chili peppers, taking turns on the drums, playing 2112 and working man respectively. And finally, if you want to hear in my opinion, one rush album that demonstrates the incredible musicianship of this three piece band. I'd recommend you stream the album moving pictures widely considered their best album, and the one that led to their stadium success. For those of you who want the garage to stadium definitive playlist of Rush go to our website garage to stadiums.com, where we've posted that playlist including Sam's three picks, and the episodes transcripts. While there you can see our other episodes and we hope you enjoyed our show today special thanks to our guests Sam Dunn of banger films and
Speaker 1 41:04
our producer Reese waters. I'm Dave Anthony and you've been listening to garage to stadiums another blast furnace lamps production. See you next time for another garage to stadium story.
Unknown Speaker 41:25
This has been a Podstarter production
Transcribed by https://otter.ai