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Orthodox Christian Parenting, hosted by Faithtree Resources Executive Director (and mom of four!) Michelle Moujaes, is a weekly podcast for parents and grandparents navigating the holy struggle of raising kids in the Orthodox Faith. Each episode offers honesty, encouragement, and practical wisdom from the Church—creating space to exhale, freedom from the pressure to be perfect, and openness to grow as you raise children who are deepening their knowledge and love of Christ.
So we pick Rosie up, and we drive up to the hospital, and there's a feeling of, like, anticipation and, oh my gosh, this is happening. And the five of us, you know, say a prayer. We know that on the other side of this, there is something happening. It's tragic.
Michelle Moujaes:Meaning, you have somebody donating a heart, which meant somebody was not here. Okay.
Elias Hajjar:And we were we were always aware of this burden knowing that in order for our daughters to live a healthy life that someone else was gonna lose a son or daughter. And even in all of our posts and every and every prayer that we said, we we prayed for the donor family. Yeah. Not knowing anything about them, where they were coming, what what was going on in their life or what happened for this to to be. And that that's of all the stuff that we've gone through, like, that piece of it is is the toughest.
Elias Hajjar:Sure. Recognizing that, you know, in in our happiest moment, it it could possibly be it it would it would be the worst possible the worst possible moment for someone else.
Michelle Moujaes:Welcome to Orthodox Christian Parenting, where we bring the church's timeless wisdom into the everyday chaos of raising kids. I'm Michelle Moujaes, and today's conversation is the second half of one of the most moving interviews we've done on this show. Joy and Elias Hajjar are back with us to share the rest of their story and to illustrate how God shows up even in the hardest of times. Their lives have been completely transformed by their children and especially through their daughter Rosie who was the recipient of a heart transplant. I am confident that their example of faithfulness, strength, and the willingness to do the next hard thing will inspire you just as it has me.
Michelle Moujaes:Just wait. This conversation is a game changer.
Elias Hajjar:You know, of all the times we go to the hospital, it's always a big pain in the butt getting registered and where are we going, and do we go to this room or that room? With this time, when we showed up at the hospital, it was like a like, the red carpet had had been laid out for us, and the doctors were were there. The nurses were all, Fiving. They were this is happening. It was exciting.
Elias Hajjar:And
Joy Hajjar:Yeah. They really believed me.
Elias Hajjar:It was it was quite an experience. And then, you know, obviously, all my my siblings that were here came. All of of Joy's siblings were here. My grandparents were all together, and it was like this exciting time, like, where it was like we finally had something hopeful to to Yeah. There was a rally around.
Elias Hajjar:Chance.
Joy Hajjar:Yeah. We we were we were getting this we were getting this chance. Meanwhile, on the other side, Rosie's surgery, like I said, was twelve hours long. We read messages from everybody who was really there with us. Really there with us.
Joy Hajjar:Right, Michelle? Like, didn't she I felt like like it was
Michelle Moujaes:We were literally just clicking update, refresh, refresh, refresh, waiting.
Joy Hajjar:I know. Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:And it's funny because the Orthodox world is small because it goes viral. So it was all of a sudden, everybody's calling everybody and everybody knows all the things, and you're waiting in real time.
Joy Hajjar:In real time. Well, Rosie comes out of surgery.
Elias Hajjar:Well, the doctor the doctor comes out first, and this is you know, that it was a twelve hour surgery that started at midnight. Doctors are superheroes. And and this doctor
Joy Hajjar:Oh my gosh.
Elias Hajjar:They had to go to harvest the organ. And and we we found out later, and then we'll get to the to the donor side, but the heart came from Knoxville, Tennessee. So they they took
Joy Hajjar:Or out
Michelle Moujaes:no. Detroit. Detroit, Ohio. Yeah.
Joy Hajjar:So it's a seven hour drive that came by helicopter.
Elias Hajjar:They came so they had to go inspect the heart in the donor's body to make sure that it was gonna be okay. In the meantime, they're prepping us.
Joy Hajjar:Rosie.
Elias Hajjar:They're prepping Rosie to to take her in. So and they don't they don't open Rosie until they actually have the heart. This is like
Michelle Moujaes:I trust
Joy Hajjar:yeah. It's really annoying. It's really annoying.
Elias Hajjar:And and, anyway, I don't know how much of this you really want, but, like
Michelle Moujaes:I'm dying. I mean, it's it we take so much for granted.
Joy Hajjar:Yes. We do. Yes. We do.
Elias Hajjar:And so the doctor is on this helicopter ride, you know, couple hours, then performs a twelve hour surgery, and then now is sitting with us in the room Yeah. Explaining that Yeah. Everything went really well.
Joy Hajjar:Went really well.
Elias Hajjar:That it's a good heart. It's a healthy heart. It came from a 22 year old man that was a little bit smaller in stature, so it it Fit. The size fit well. It was a little bit big for her at the time, but she she ended up you know, she grew grew into it.
Michelle Moujaes:How old was Rosie at this time?
Joy Hajjar:12? 11. Rosie was 11. And and small. She looked like she was, you know, in kindergarten still.
Joy Hajjar:She hadn't grown for many years. Actually, I meant to bring that the growth chart because, you know, it's like this was her, and then it showed transplant, and then it went like this. It, like, really was that it was that severe. But Rosie spent four weeks in the hospital recovering. So we spent Christmas in the hospital, Christmas morning with our the little kids.
Joy Hajjar:It was, you know, it was kind of a long and just how are we gonna adjust? How's everything gonna go? The medicine, it was a lot to kind of focus on to get her healthy. She lived you know, did school from home for a few months just while while she we were doing masks before COVID. It was a whole thing.
Joy Hajjar:We kept keep her healthy.
Elias Hajjar:Hand sanitizer and yeah. I mean, all of it.
Joy Hajjar:So she was in sixth grade when that happened. She started junior high, seventh grade, August, which was, you know, nine months later, and walked into the high school. She'd grown a little bit. She walked into the high school with her backpack and purple running shoes, and I watched her walk into school. And Rosie had missed a lot of school in her youth, and I was overcome with this, like, intense gratitude.
Joy Hajjar:I could not believe that Rosie was walking into junior high like a normal kid. And I felt compelled that this family has to know what they've just done, what they've given what they've given Rosie, because I don't know that we would have been there without them. So I came home, and I wrote a letter to the donor family.
Michelle Moujaes:Isn't it typical that you don't get to connect with donor families? Like, what's that look like? Or you can just choose to if they choose to?
Joy Hajjar:Through, like, the donor, we have Life Connection of Ohio who works with the hospitals in and around this area, and then there's donor services of Tennessee, Gift of Life Michigan. So through these organizations, they connect. So I wrote a letter anonymous.
Elias Hajjar:But it's all on the donor's request. Donor wants to donor doesn't wanna
Joy Hajjar:wanna know anything
Elias Hajjar:Then then they have the right to to not know anything.
Joy Hajjar:I all I can do is send this letter Yeah. Hope that it gets to them. And then if they want to reach back out, they can. Well, after a year, they had it. So I called, like, Connection of Ohio.
Joy Hajjar:I said, did you send it? Yes. We sent it on this day. Okay. And I go, oh, that's too bad.
Joy Hajjar:But I respect everyone's story and privacy and whatever they wanted. A whole year after that so it's been two years since her transplant now. We wake up in the middle of the night.
Elias Hajjar:Well, I I'm awake. Joy's sleeping.
Joy Hajjar:Oh, yeah. And Eli goes, you awake? I'm like, no. What's up? He was like, never mind.
Joy Hajjar:We'll talk to him.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Like, now
Joy Hajjar:I'm awake. Now I'm awake.
Elias Hajjar:So I get a message. And
Joy Hajjar:I'll tell you what they said. They said, hello. We are reaching out because we saw your Facebook page, and we know that your daughter is carrying our son's heart. And we have confirmed this, but if you wanna go through the proper channels, we just wanna say we'd love to meet you. So I call the hospital, and I say these people have reached out to us.
Elias Hajjar:And And we were, like, skeptical.
Michelle Moujaes:We were like Like, we
Elias Hajjar:weren't like, oh, sweet. Wow. It was like, who are these people, and why are they reaching out to us on Facebook? You know? All this stuff on Facebook too.
Elias Hajjar:It's like, you don't know what's real or not real. So we go
Joy Hajjar:through the process. The proper channels, and they say, yes. Well, it turns out that the father of this young man had started working for donor services of Tennessee and had been able to make the connection and had seen a story
Elias Hajjar:a newspaper article.
Joy Hajjar:Yeah. A newspaper
Elias Hajjar:article that they found. That said, you know, 11 year old girl receives the life giving lifesaving heart transplant at the University of Michigan. And they had known that their son's heart had gone to Michigan at the same time. And so they made the connection and then Google us, found the Facebook page, and then reached out.
Joy Hajjar:And then and then confirmed it. So we met Mike and Tammy Wells over Zoom. It was 2020, so we couldn't really meet in person right away. We met in Zoom, and first thing I said to them when we met on a call like this was, I am so sorry for your loss and for the pain you've endured. And Mike said to us, we have felt so much joy since meeting since finding Rose.
Joy Hajjar:And December 14, we got the call for Rose. Rose was getting her heart transplant. And that day, we were thinking about the donor family. And after we met Mike and Tammy, she sent me this card, and she sent me a heart strip, Michael's heart strip. And she said to me, I wanted to share one of Michael's heart strips that were given to me by his nurse.
Joy Hajjar:Looking at them, I knew that his heart was going to belong to someone else. At least I prayed that it would. I just had to trust God with the rest because only he knew how the story of one heart would continue, and I'm so glad it did. Much love, Tammy. So while we were moving on to a hopeful, healthy future for Rose, she was saying goodbye to her son, Michael.
Joy Hajjar:They are now our family. They were surprised us for Rosie's sixteenth birthday. They were at Rosie's graduation. We spend every Thanksgiving together. It's Michael's birthday, couple days before Thanksgiving, and we share that together.
Joy Hajjar:Rosie took her spring break trip to Knoxville to meet their new little grandbaby. We love them, and we now feel like we've always been family. And it makes no sense, and it makes all the sense in the world that this happened. It's one of those things where, like, if there's ever an example how two things can happen at once, how the worst thing can be the best thing, like, this is it. So it's hard to articulate, and it's really hard to put our, you know, words to.
Joy Hajjar:But Rosie was just in London, and, you know, she shared every moment of the trip. And every day is a blessing. It's a day to honor Michael's gift, and it's to keep his heart, you know, going and living. And and I think the Wells feel that too. I I
Elias Hajjar:Michael was a special needs adult, and and he was nonverbal. And so and and Mike and Tammy had spent their whole life, like, caring for him. And and, you know, everybody they always would say he had a great personality. You know, he he was very expressive.
Joy Hajjar:Funny. He loved to eat.
Elias Hajjar:And he but he couldn't he couldn't speak. And so now there's this almost like a sense of, like, life carrying forward with Michael. It threw Rosie, and it's it's a miracle. It's it's just it's and it's I know for them, it's almost you know, you can never I'm sure you can never replace, you know, a loss of a child, but this is the next best thing. And and this is it gives it also gives them a sense of of hope and and and love that they can still share that love with Rosie, and Rosie feels it.
Elias Hajjar:I mean, Rosie considers them. Like, I mean, she probably tells them stuff that she doesn't tell us. You know? I mean, I think they have that relationship. And and we we respect it, and and we are happy for her that she has it.
Elias Hajjar:And, you know, there's no feeling of and there's no other feeling other than just love and happiness.
Michelle Moujaes:It's a gift.
Elias Hajjar:Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Did they get the letter? That's what I wanna know.
Joy Hajjar:Oh, right? They moved.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, the letters
Joy Hajjar:never got to them. They wish they had known sooner. They kind of sought us out. They found us. The letter never got to them.
Joy Hajjar:They sought after the fact.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Joy Hajjar:So but the timing is like it wasn't the right time. You know? It needed to be a little bit later. Maybe Rosie needed to be older. I don't know, but I'll tell you
Elias Hajjar:what.
Michelle Moujaes:We trust. God provides in that. If you could speak to people who not everybody will have this experience, but so many churches are filled with those people and all of us who have something hard to navigate. Yep. Is there anything that you saw or that happened with you that was particularly helpful that I mean, I know you shared that people just saw needs and started meeting them.
Michelle Moujaes:But if you were to talk to people in our church communities and say, this was a really great way that families walked with us through the darkest times. What would that be? I'm I'm assuming for the Wells, it would be a little different. But Right. For you guys, like, how how can we as as parts of the body of Christ, how can we walk with families Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Through things like this?
Joy Hajjar:Yeah. And that's one of, like, the gifts of going through something is, like, well, we're all going through something. And, often see people I know from, like, a long time ago, and they'll share something here or there. And I'm like, oh, that'd be weird if I reached out. And it's and I when I heard from people who, you know, hadn't been in my life for a long time, I felt so much gratitude that they thought of me, wrote to me, said a prayer for me.
Joy Hajjar:It it's really it's really the simplest things, and it's showing up with whatever you have to give. I believe that every mother in a hospital room wants fuzzy slippers and a blanket.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. That's
Joy Hajjar:it. That's it. That's the win. More than food or all that ever, fuzzy slippers and a blanket carried me through some cold nights. But how can people show up?
Elias Hajjar:I think to piggyback off of that, just letting like, to Joy's point, every time we would get a message on Facebook or a text message, like, we're thinking of you or praying for you
Joy Hajjar:so sweet.
Elias Hajjar:Oh my it gosh. Mattered. It mattered. It mattered to us, and and we felt that. And so that would be my only my only addition to what Joyce said would just be to to make sure you like, don't we want it Don't let the awkward Yeah.
Joy Hajjar:We want it. Conversation stop you.
Elias Hajjar:The awkward Right.
Michelle Moujaes:Right. Right. Right.
Joy Hajjar:You know? Like, we want Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Get in there. Like,
Elias Hajjar:we yeah. I mean, we we that's why we put it all out there. And so when when you, you know, do that, it it does it does mean a lot.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that so much. I I remember this. I don't know. It just came to my mind. I saw your mom one time, Joy, and I said to her, how are you doing?
Michelle Moujaes:It's hard to watch your children go through something so hard. And she said, I'm doing okay. She said, I'm not worried about Rosie because she has joy, and I know joy. I am worried about joy because I know she's carrying, you know, so so I have the the mother's heart and the grandmother's heart, she said, but I'm so encouraged because she is not walking alone, which I was like, oh, that's so a reminder that like That is in there and walk with people. That's the business of the church.
Elias Hajjar:Yeah. And every time we'd come home and we'd be in church on Sunday, you know, or the priest would always, you know, recognize or or say, let's say a prayer for Rose. And the Rose was always at the top of the prayer list, still is at the top of the prayer list on Sundays. You know, that that that power of prayer is is is real.
Michelle Moujaes:Enormous. Enormous. We cannot take for granted. I don't believe that, you know, God has already predestined all the things. He listens to the prayers of his children.
Michelle Moujaes:That's why we pray. That's why we go before him. I do believe that. Okay. I know that I'm gonna overstay my welcome with you all, but I just have a couple of questions that I wanna put out for our audience.
Michelle Moujaes:And we always give our audience a chance to write in questions. And so if there's a mom or a dad in the hospital right now or sitting in a room or waiting for test results or any of the things that can be so hard for us as parents? Do you have any pearls of wisdom that you would offer them?
Joy Hajjar:Yeah. I mean
Elias Hajjar:You're you can do
Joy Hajjar:it. You can do it. You're stronger than think you are.
Elias Hajjar:And and
Joy Hajjar:That's so cliche.
Elias Hajjar:But and and know it and and, you know, just keep reminding yourself of that. You know? And that's the hardest part. You know? Even to to today, like, I still have to tell myself, like, I'm literally in my head saying, you can do this.
Michelle Moujaes:You got this.
Elias Hajjar:You can do this. You can do And and I think just knowing that and and believing it is is that's all you got. You know? Yeah. That's all any of us have.
Michelle Moujaes:If you could go back and whisper one thing to the younger versions of yourself when you were 25 or 26, whatever you were, what would it be?
Joy Hajjar:Oh my gosh. The icon above the altar at the church has the Virgin Mary and the words more spacious than the heavens from the all creation rejoice. And I because I sing in the choir, I see it like it's like at my eye level, more spacious than the heavens. And a few years back, I went and asked father Michael, what does that mean? What's what what they talk what does that mean?
Joy Hajjar:And he said it refers to the womb of the Theotokos, more spacious than the heavens. She made space. She said yes. She was willing, and she didn't know what was coming next. She didn't know what she was, you know, agreeing to, but God spoke to her.
Joy Hajjar:The angel spoke to her, and she was willing to endure what whatever was necessary. So for someone in a hard time, one thing is to pray to the theotokos, who is our example of someone more spacious than the heavens to carry to be so open to the will of god no matter how hard it's gonna be. And, also, we have no idea what is next. We have no idea that what we think is gonna be the hardest thing could be the most beautiful and life changing thing. I was 25 going in to have my first baby 27 going in to have my first baby.
Joy Hajjar:I had no idea that I would be here today talking about my 19 year old daughter from having a heart transplant, and now we've enlarged our family to include four more, now they have a little baby, individuals who now are a part. We if we think we know, then it's then it's limited. And God's plan is is limitless. One other kind of remarkable miracle. And and if if if these stories like, I don't know that I have the words or, like, the inspirational quote, but I do have stories.
Joy Hajjar:And one of them is last August, we drove Rose to the University of Michigan for her first day of college. That is the same drive we took because the university Hundreds of times. And the hospital are right next to each other. That's the same drive we took hundreds of times when Rose needed treatment, was sick, was in testing. That drive usually meant, we're headed for it.
Joy Hajjar:Did we pack our bags? How long are we gonna be gone? Is she gonna be okay? What's the next step? We we drove up there always with anxiety and unknown and fear.
Joy Hajjar:And then in August, we drove up there to drop her off to start college, and we moved her into her dorm room and took her up to the 3rd Floor and looked out her window. And what did we see? But CS Mott Children's Hospital right in front of us and those same windows that she would now look out of as a university freshman were the windows she would look out of as a young lady not knowing what the next day would bring as a sick child, you know, in the hospital. And it was like, I don't know how we got there. I don't know.
Joy Hajjar:But we trusted. We did the next hard thing. We were supported by thousands of amazing people who carried us. We had churches praying for us. And, I mean, when it comes down to it, that's all you can do is just kind of have trust that it's going to work out as it should even when it feels like the worst.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it. This is from a priest's wife in the state of Kansas, and she asks, our parish has a family right now going through a very hard medical crisis with their child. We want to help, and we want. We don't want to make it worse. What can families do, and what do families in the middle of a crisis actually need from their church community so that we are clear on what we should not do even if we do that with good intentions?
Elias Hajjar:A good question.
Michelle Moujaes:It is a good because I feel like I'm the one who's always afraid I'm gonna say it so wrong, or I'm gonna, like, stir the pot in, like, a bad way.
Elias Hajjar:We always appreciated the the priest coming and praying. There there's also, like, sometimes where we had people at the hospital not at the best time.
Joy Hajjar:Well, because sometimes you're kind of living there in the slippers.
Elias Hajjar:And so it it can we we always tried our best to you know, we understood that the people that were coming to the hospital just wanted to love us and support us. Yeah. But sometimes it it you need to be alone. And and then it's sometimes you need people to be there to distract you.
Joy Hajjar:Yeah.
Elias Hajjar:So it's tough. It's not. I don't think there's a a right or a wrong answer there. I think everybody's different.
Michelle Moujaes:Just be open
Elias Hajjar:to it. Yeah.
Joy Hajjar:And and and I don't know if this is just me being, like, now realizing this as the older I get is, like, believe people when they tell you what they need.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Joy Hajjar:So when they say you know, because I I also like, no. No. No. No. I you said this, but I think you need this.
Joy Hajjar:I don't think that's helpful. I think if someone says, I I think the older we get, the more honest we should be with, you know, like, this is what I need, and this is what I don't need, and and believe people when they tell you.
Elias Hajjar:Yeah. And I would let the family know, like, to be Be honest. Honest. You know? Like, say, like, what can we do to help you?
Elias Hajjar:And and and maybe they don't know, which makes it even harder. But Yeah. I think just being honest and then believing people when they say
Michelle Moujaes:it when good. That's so good. Because we're sometimes so polite or so we try and over Right. Provide. But just let's all just be super Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah, super truthful. Can you give us an update on Rosie?
Joy Hajjar:She'll be 19 in a week or two, and she just finished her freshman year at University of Michigan.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it. What's she studying? Tell us what she's studying.
Joy Hajjar:Health sciences, biology. She, you know, is interested in the medical field in some way. I think she has you know, her story can help a lot of people. She can relate to being a kid in the hospital, And I think that goes a long way because, you know, when you know what it's like, I think you could really have a good impact on on kids. And I want to say that Rose takes really good care of her heart.
Joy Hajjar:She takes really good care of herself and that the journey continues, that she's on very heavy medication, and she's under close supervision to make sure that that she stays as healthy as possible. And that we have taken a step back now that she's in charge. Wow. When your kids turn 18 too, they take their, like, their medical records, you need permission to
Michelle Moujaes:I know. It's kind of the worst. In California here when they turn 12, and then we they have to give permission. Yeah. I remember I walked into the doctor's office.
Michelle Moujaes:I was like, she doesn't even know her Social Security number. Like, what are you talking about? Wow. That's so crazy. I know.
Joy Hajjar:It's like But They look at Rosie, and they go, is it okay if she stays? Referring to me. I'm like,
Michelle Moujaes:what? Yeah.
Joy Hajjar:So I actually I'm okay taking the step back and and giving her she is more than equipped to make some great decisions for her life, but we will face each challenge. There have been a few things that have come up. She got appendicitis this year, which, you know, opened a whole can of worms. But her life is is is open, and she feels good, and she's healthy. And we are grateful and thank god every day.
Michelle Moujaes:Joy and Elias, you are an example to all of us. We're so grateful that you were willing to share your story.
Joy Hajjar:Thank you, Michelle.
Elias Hajjar:Thank you for giving me
Joy Hajjar:lot to me. I'm so grateful for this podcast. I have learned so much, so much. And I've wanted to be asked to share our story. And, you know, I asked my daughters, Dahlia and Jasmine, today before school.
Joy Hajjar:What am I gonna say that, like, gives someone something good to think about or something interesting? And Jasmine said, if you just, like, tell tell the truth, it's interesting enough, mom.
Michelle Moujaes:Absolutely. And you guys have journeyed through some pretty hard things really, really well. So thank you for being the example.
Joy Hajjar:Thank you, Michelle.
Michelle Moujaes:Beautiful. We love you both. Love you. And thank you for being with us today. I want you to hear this clearly, especially if you are right in the middle of something hard.
Michelle Moujaes:You are not being punished. You are not forgotten, and you are not alone. The God who walked with joy and Elias through the hospital rooms and the surgery waiting areas and those long, long nights is the same God who is with you in your hard thing, whatever it is. He is not standing at the end of the road just waiting for you to arrive. He's walking right next to you the whole way.
Michelle Moujaes:And the church, his body, his people is here for you too. Sometimes we just have to let them in. Don't forget to download the free digital discussion guide in the show notes. And if you want more information about becoming a donor, consult your priest to see how organ donation may be possible. If today's conversation moved you, please share it with a parent who needs it.
Michelle Moujaes:Remember, we carry each other through these things. Until next time.