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Interesting people, insightful points of view and incredible stories on what’s popping and not popping in marketing, tech, and culture you can use to win immediately. Brands, Beats and Bytes boldly stands at the intersection of brand, tech and culture. DC and Larry are fascinated with stories and people behind some of the best marketing in the business. No matter how dope your product, if your marketing sucks your company may suck too. #dontsuck
DC: Brand Nerds, welcome to another edition of Brand Beats and Bytes. But this time we coming at you with the What's Popping and Brand Nerds. We have an alum in the building.
LT: And we love that. We love that.
DC: I just love it. Larry. When we have alums come back, this particular alum, uh, LT, as you know, kicked off Album Four for us. He was track number one. So. Of our fourth year, this brother was number one out the box. He was out the box and a Brand Nerds. We need you all to know that sometimes our Brand Nerd alums will step to us with an idea. And we'll go, Hmm, that sounds kind of dope to us. And that's what happened here with Phil Colón.
And for those of you all who do not know Phil Colón, who I call. Okay. That's what I call him. Blanco. Uh, we have been friends for decades. Um, he is one of the best marketers I've ever met. Because he has this combination of using data and also most importantly, blending instincts with this LT.
LT: Yep.
DC: And at the end of the day, if all we needed was data and research Brand Nerds, then researchers would be running all of the biggest brands and businesses in the world, but they are not.
They are not. Cause you got to be able to look at the data and discern it. And then you got to be able to put your proverbial finger in the air and go, what's happening out here on the streets, right? Phil Colón is one of these brothers who understands. What's happening here in the streets. And it's with that, that we are incredibly excited to hear what Phil has in his mind about the intersection of sports and culture and our What's Popping today.
So Phil, you're going to launch us into this. You're going to launch us into this Phil.
Phil Colón: Wow. Well, look again, thanks for the introduction. I'm always looking forward to chatting with you and Larry about general topics, things that are in the now. I love to talk about things that are in the, into the, into the tomorrow.
Um, and I think in this case, this is a. Now and tomorrow. Okay. And, um, and, and I, I felt like there was an opportunity for us to talk about how sports is now the biggest thing and news and entertainment. Today. Um, and some of the things that are happening within the realm of sports, some of the micro trends that that are that are happening there.
Um, our brands are now looking to leverage sports and fandoms to try to, uh, create their brand narratives. Um, and make them fit in this very emotional triggering medium as sports. Um, and this is all happening in light of AI and how we're moving further and further away from the, the human reality. Um, and, and, and now how sports being the ultimate human experience is, is kind of taking the forefront and saying.
People still need to engage in ways that they can feel and touch emotionally, spiritually. Um, the ebbs and flows of, of, of sports, the agony of defeat, the thrill of victory. Um, and how brands now see that as a perfect opportunity, um, to sit in that space and be able to tell their brand story within the context of sports.
LT: That's a good one D.
DC: Oh, yes. Oh, really good. So no, go ahead. Go ahead. There you go what I love about the topic Blanco and and LT is Sports has the emotionality that you spoke to Phil but sports also has the money Yeah, and and so in 2022 revenue on sports Was, uh, um, a little more than 400 billion, four, 400 billion, and by 2028 it's expected to grow to, uh, uh, about 680 billion.
So let's roll it up to 700 billion, and that's on compounded growth rate of, uh, about 9.1%. So if that continues by 2030, uh, thereabouts. Sports will be a trillion dollar industry trillion. So when you, when you can combine emotion, which is sports and dollars, you, you have me at hello.
LT: Yeah. Can I also get some more context?
Were you done with that thought, D?
Go on, brother,
DC: please.
LT: Yeah, more context to, uh, which I think is huge here Phil and DC. Think about, I mean, 10, 20, 30 years ago when there were television shows and movies that the bulk of the culture saw. And people call it water cooler conversation. That's right.
DC: I remember that. Yeah.
LT: Right now, I would suggest that the water cooler, uh, since so many people only go in for a couple of days a week or don't go in at all, it's really the, for many people, it's the water cooler at the dog park where people go every day. Yeah. That's things have changed too. That's a little thing. D D you and I've talked a little bit about.
Um, but the other thing is, but sports, right, there's the Super Bowl every year. College football championships getting bigger and bigger with the playoff system now going to 12. The NBA is, is, is the, the largest global league, right? When you say, you know, when you think about globally, right? Um, and then of course you have premieres, the premiership in England and whatnot.
But the point is. The sports keeps going. And when you think about, there's not that many movie stars left because people, you know, aren't going to the movies in the same way. And they're, and the fragmentation of entertainment, they're not watching the same streaming shows and whatnot. People are all still watching these big tent events in sports.
So the amplification of that gets even bigger. And so then the brands want to even be more involved because there's hardly any of these things left. For people for brands to really connect with people in a large way and also as Phil, uh, so aptly let off that is emotionally tugging people. So it's only skyrocketing even more with that context.
DC: I agree.
Phil Colón: Yeah. So, so absolutely on, on all of those fronts. I thought the, the Olympics this year was an interesting pivot point in that. It was, it was interesting because the lead into the Olympics was not as strong as I remember it. And I don't know whether or not that was just timing. It's in Paris.
LT: We did a show about it, Phil.
We were saying, will the Olympics big be big or not? Yeah, I agree.
Phil Colón: Yeah, it, it, it kind of came in. you know, in third gear. Um, and but when it arrived, it arrived with great fanfair and a lot of that was led by some of these wonderful athletic stories that came out of the Olympics. Um, that that reminded us At a moment where society is at the highest in terms of division, in terms of our divisions and just all the vitriol that's out there.
It reminded us that sports is the ultimate human interest story and that we can find ourselves in any athlete, no matter. Who you are, where you come from, what language you spoke. There's something about that grit, determination, story of struggle, perseverance, and in some cases victory that everyone loves.
And so something that came in slow, really revved up in a way that I've never remembered in terms of the olympics. And so, and so I feel that kind of set the tone for where we are now. And when you kind of talk about those numbers, DC that, that, that you, that you said, I've got some other numbers to talk to you about too, is there is no bigger business DC, opportunity now than sports. Period. And so also because of some of those numbers, DC, in many cases, some leagues are not sustainable financially, right? Because there's only so much you can get from a streaming contract. I say streaming now because I don't know if that networks can even, can even compete.
Um, in, in, in a space where the Amazons of the world are, are, are, are putting up so much money for streaming rights of, of games and, and leagues. Um, and so this is where I feel like brands always pick up the slack, right? Any, anytime there is a gap in between, you know, profitability and revenue, brands usually come in to save the day.
Right. Right to say, Okay, well, wait a minute. You've got something I need, right? I've got something you need. Where can we find this happy medium? And how can we create this win win? So, so what I, what I looked at, uh, DC and Larry was I always try to look at things through subsets. And so, I said, okay, great. I was, you know, I launched a property called El Show a year ago.
Uh, and just to give you some context, El Show. Is a is a is a social media platform geared towards elevating and celebrating Latino baseball athletes, right?
LT: Love that name too.
Phil Colón: Thank you. And I launched that because I saw that. Even though Latino players make up 38 percent of the league in terms of the athletic participation.
LT: We're talking MLB here, right?
Phil Colón: We're talking MLB. Thank you, Larry. Um, the amount of media sources that cover that cohort are extremely low relative to the size of the population and the participation level of the players. And so, and so, when I looked at that, then I said, well, wait a minute. When you look at the players, then you see that the majority of those players, Spanish is their first language.
English is the second. So there's even less media sources. That speaks to those players in language and culture. Uh, and so I felt like there was an opportunity to not only help those players better express themselves in their language to their fans, but also an opportunities to brands to help initiate that conversation between the players and their fans.
And so El Show was born from that. So moving forward into today, this is why I wanted to have this conversation.
DC: Before you move forward, were there any people that you talked to in conceiving El Show, who might, as we, as we pivot to today, who might find a bat in Yankee Town to get themselves back into this series.
I'm just wondering if that was a part of the thinking of El Show, that the Yankees who spend more money than everybody might find themselves not getting drubbed by the Dodgers. I'm just wondering.
Phil Colón: Well, we did, we, we, you know, so ironically enough, we did have a conversation with Juan Soto is one of the first people that we interviewed.
DC: Okay, Soto. Okay, Soto. Okay.
Phil Colón: And, and, uh, and we actually interviewed Bope. He's Filipino, but you know, and so he kind of did his thing last night. So, um, um, yes.
DC: But I digress. Please continue. I digress. Yes.
Phil Colón: That's a whole other, that's a whole other podcast. I'll have a lot to talk about that, but that's a whole other topic.
DC: Okay. Keep going. I'm sorry, bro. I'm sorry.
Phil Colón: No, no, no, no. This is all good. Um, and so then I started looking at it more broadly and then I said, well, wait a minute. Let's look at NFL, NHL, Uh, tennis, golf, so on and so forth. And what I've observed is that it feels like the leads have reached their plateau as it relates, as it relates to, uh, season ticket holders, uh, increasing the, the number of, uh, fandoms here in the U S and they're all looking towards overseas to expand the fandoms.
Um, you know, NFL had the game in Brazil this year, uh, MLB had the first game in Mexico City this year. Uh, I'm sure the NBA is going to be doing some games overseas, uh, the following years. But, but, but expanding on, on that, right. Expanding in terms of the reach. And so, um, and so, you know, again, this is all happening in the general market, you know, uh, uh, uh, you know, construct.
Again, looking at it from a Latino perspective, looking at population trends, looking at World Cup coming up, looking at what fans have been able to demonstrate during the World Baseball Classic, um, the, the, the, the recent, uh, soccer series that happened in Miami where the fans were climbing through the HVAC to try to get into the game.
Um, it is. Incredible, incredible passion and fandom that I feel like brands have not connected with. And so we launched Supremo off the back of El Show's success because we saw an opportunities to help brands fit within that conversation of player and fan. And we see the Latin community, not only here in the States.
But in Latin America, the Americas and also Europe as being a catalyst to help not only leagues but brands further connect with the new generation of consumers and fans.
LT: So Phil, I have a question for you. Have there been any brands that you point to Within that sphere with you know brands that are really adept at uh trying to go after the latino customer the latino consumer in a way that's working and that is sort of a model for others because I think what happens is and just quick tangent, but it goes, but it's important.
DC and I've seen this time and time again, you might get a brand person. I'm making this up at P&G who sees the Latino audience and they really are, are there, you know, feet first they're in. And then all of a sudden that person gets moved to another brand. And now the new brand person wants to do what they're going to do in there.
They have a different emphasis and that becomes a big issue. When, when you're dealing with big CPG marketers, but I would love to hear if you have any, um, you know, hey, these guys are doing it right. Kind of, um, models for us.
Phil Colón: Wow. Uh, you know, I, I don't have to look further than, you know, you and DC on this call to point to what good looks like, uh, in terms of like effectively leveraging culture.
Uh and branding like there's there's there's very few people that fit that bill. But I would say that our alma mater Coca Cola does a pretty good job of diving in with their dollars When they see that there's an opportunity to capture uh, right a share of marketing and you know in share of of wallet, um, Uh, i'm always going to say no. Um, because guys I always feel like more can be done. Right. Right. And, and so I guess I'm an optimist in that sense. Um, you know, you know, look, as it relates to the Latin market, I don't think any one brand has really nailed it because, and this is the important part, and this is what I wanted to speak about here.
There's a difference between in language and in culture. And I, and I say those two specific terms. With great specificity. And this is why. Let me explain what that means. So in language is in language, right? So what does that mean? So for instance, we interview Juan Soto and Vladimir Guerrero, um, earlier during spring training for El Show, right?
Yes. Junior was more comfortable speaking in Spanish to us because he felt like he can better express himself in Spanish. And I'm like, bet we want that, because we don't want, we don't want you to miscommunicate. Mm hmm. Right? Mm hmm. Juan Soto, also Spanish first language, but he wanted to express himself in English.
No problem. Whatever you feel is going to make you better tell your story. That is the difference between in language and in culture right? Where Spanish is in language that's in Spanish, right? Or, or in English culture is I'm going to talk about my experiences growing up as, uh, as, you know, Dominican and DR or Puerto Rican in the Bronx.
I'm bringing that cultural insight into when I communicate. And so oftentimes. And it's surprising that brands still do this. They simplify it. They say this is only language or only culture. It's both. Interesting.
DC: Interesting.
Phil Colón: Right? And so no one has fully connected those dots. And maybe it's because the majority of CMOs are not of that culture.
So there's no direction coming from the top to the bottom or understand that culture to be able to fully, uh, you know, uh, explain it, you know, to their marketing, uh, you know, director, so, and so forth, or maybe the agencies that are in pole position. Don't necessarily understand that either. It cannot communicate that effectively to their clients.
And so there's always this gap where these, these arguments that took place was like, can you understand the numbers? The market is huge. The spending power is incredible, but we, we can't crack the code. And I think the reason why they can't crack the code is because they're not approaching it holistically.
Great.
LT: Agreed.
Phil Colón: So, so, so then you get one or two results. The one result is like, you know what, I tried to put some money against that demo. It didn't return what I wanted. I'm going to keep it moving.
LT: And Phil, that's why I asked you, was there any good model? Cause I haven't seen any, you know that, right?
Phil Colón: Yeah, that's what I mean. Like I, I want to be able to say yes. You know, I can clearly point to the work that we've done historically that that's been, that's been great, but I, you know, I, you know, you know, people do your homework, you'll see what that is, but like, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's still boggling to me that no one's taking the time to figure out why that unlock has not been done to the extent where it can be done.
Right. And so, and so I'm always looking for that case study, that brand that, that's going to say, you know what, Phil, I'm going to let you ride this. You know, I'm going to give you the opportunity to lead this as a subject matter expert and take me to the finish line. So I'm with a little bit of leap of faith.
Yeah. A little bit. Cause I say. The numbers are what they are. The market is who it is. It's not disappearing. It continues to get so there. There's no mystery about the market. The mystery exists on the approach to unlocking that market and DC. I see you're shaking your head because you're so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so you I came in on, on, on, I came in on the momentum that you created. And Larry at Coca Cola is no different from when you were at Coca Cola and you and Steve Horne were trying to convince Coca Cola, look, there's an unlock here for Sprite.
You don't understand what it is.
LT: Right.
Phil Colón: Well, you have to believe me that I do. And Steve Horn came along and said, wait, I've got some numbers to help you out, make you feel a little bit more comfortable. There are some, there are some things we can look at that, that there's some bubbling areas that, that, that, you know, if we can fuel those, we can create some growth.
But ultimately it took a leap of faith. by management to say this brother DC, he's got something. I don't know what it is, but my gut, right? Did we have this conversation at the top of this hour? My instincts are telling me that I should allow this to sail and let's see where it goes. And we all know where it went.
Right. And, and, and even in even so, even Even that blueprint you would imagine would get repeated over and over again. It's only getting repeated by the students of that footprint, which who we know, Daryl Butler at Google Pixel, all of a sudden there's culture in that advertising, right? So, so Sean Tresbett over at Taco Bell, all of a sudden there's culture in that, in that approach.
And, and I can name more of our alumni, right? You know, uh, uh, you know, Trevor Edwards, who was the CEO of Nike 10 years ago and had Nike on that trajectory. Guess what? They just changed their CEO because all of a sudden they understood, Oh damn, it was culture that got us this, this place. Hmm. Oh, it was culture. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't efficiencies on e commerce.
DC: No.
Phil Colón: It was, culture got us here. And so now that CEO, you know, you take your bain and associates with you, and I need a culture person. I need a person that understands the importance of building relationships. With retail partners, relationships with influencers, relationships with culture shifters, right?
Because that's going to ultimately drive the growth of my company moving into the next 10, 20 years. And so, and so I wanted to give this context because sometimes it's hard for people to understand when you're talking Latin and language and culture. But when you take a real life example. Of something that had an unlock and no one had the key except for, for, for a few chosen folks that understood it and had the opportunity to unlock it and we saw what happened, right?
So, so long winded way of saying Larry, DC I can't necessarily point to anything that I feel has unlocked potential.
LT: TBD.
Phil Colón: TBD.
LT: D, you have anything to add to that?
DC: I do but go ahead Larry, go ahead. I want to go back to the Olympics and how you said started off slowly in terms of engaging you. And then they really captured not only you, but millions of others.
LT: By the way, NBC deserves huge kudos for that.
DC: NBC and, uh, and brother Lass, also an alum, alumnus of the show, fellow brand nerd.
But what they did this year, Is they added culture because they brought Snoop to the party.
LT: Yep.
DC: They brought Snoop. Now would the Olympics have been fine without Snoop? Of course it would have been, but why did they decide this year, this year? That Snoop was a necessary element as Snoop was airware. He was airware now before they had Snoop and Kevin Hart doing a nice little commentating thing.
This is four years ago, commentating thing. So they were in studio doing some pandemic
too. So pandemic, yeah, now they go, okay, we need to bring Snoop all the way out. That was adding a culture point. Here's the second, second thing I'll, I'll say, no one would debate the impact technology has had on the globe.
No one will debate that. Technology impacts the globe because of software. Bill Gates became Bill Gates because of software. He said to himself, you know what? I may not necessarily own the PC market, physical hardware PC, but I can put the software on all of it. And the software arguably has become more important than the hardware.
Now, Apple has this. Dual thing going on. They have the hardware and the software, but mostly a software that dominates. What I'm yearning for as it relates to this venture that you're in, uh, Blanco and beyond is that my brothers and sisters of color understand their software. 38 percent of major league baseball is called Latino software, and they can place that software anywhere they please.
And if they do that, they can then run the hardware. So this, this, this, a new venture, what's the name of it again? Blanco? Oh, so no, no, no. El Show. I thought you had another thing on the brand side. Was it called Supremo? Oh, Supremo. Okay. So, so, uh, L show and Supremo. If that 38 percent of the Latino software decides it's going to put.
Apply that software to the hardware called El Show and whatever network that is on streaming or otherwise. All of a sudden, brother, you don't have to go and ask a brand. If they want to play the brands will be compelled to play. They'd be, they would be compelled to play. So I, I want my, uh, uh, uh, Black and Brown brothers and sisters to understand their power as a software.
That's my desire.
LT: That that's a huge point. And before we end, I want to build on what you said, D this is huge. As we're talking about this, you guys, whatever you want to think about the NFL, brilliant marketers. Like they understand who their consumer is. Almost to a fault, right? I, you know, like the no fun league, but they, they, they really understand how to bring people to the TV sets.
Cause that's what it's about. Right. And when you think about the NBA, what David Stern did and Adam Silver's picked up again, what I mentioned before, globally. They know who their consumer is. They're very happy with it being a young African American person of color. Who's what we call in our parlance, the brand lover.
They embrace that. They're all in on that, right? Major league baseball guys, who's their, who's their brand lover. I would posit to you that major league baseball is still living in 1975. When the, when Carlton Fisk hit the homer in game seven, and the whole world in, in their parlance was really, but the U. S. was watching. So they still think that it's, you know, the America's pastime. It's not anymore. They've been blown, the NFL passed them long ago. The NBA, again, has youth, and they're still clinging on to that. When they should go all in and that's where you come in, Phil, where, you know, the, the Latino culture should be like, not only embraced, but leaned in all the way to understand who their consumer is, which then will impact you though, because they're still trying to hang on.
I don't know if you guys saw this. They signed somebody for the postseason, Strauss. Have you seen, uh, on the side of Helmetsville? Are you watching this? Yeah.
Phil Colón: It's hard, it's hard not to notice that. What is that?
LT: No one knows that. I looked it up. It's a German apparel company. What? Like, what does that have to do with anything? That is one of these indicators. They don't get marketing. They're not more marketing oriented. They don't know who their consumer is. And these, these folks came to them and threw some money at them and they took it. Instead of again, understanding who's your consumer, who's your brand lover going forward, where are we going?
They don't understand any of that and it's so apparent and that's why, yes, they're going to get good viewership because the Yankees and Dodgers, for Christ's sakes, right? But the Major League Baseball keeps going downhill because they don't know who their, who their consumer is, who their brand is. And that's where they need your help, Phil.
And we'd be happy to help them too. And until they get that straight, Ooh, it's tough for anybody to partner with them. So that's my way on that.
Phil Colón: Ooh, preach, preach, preach Larry. Um, I, I would, I would say to give them some kudos. They launched the first kind of Latin orientated campaign this season. Um, Yes.
And, and they've been running some of those ads during the World Series. So I give them props for that. I think they've taken a step towards that direction. Um, and I think that's a positive one, you know, and, and, you know, I think what most people, uh, outside of maybe just us Brand Nerds, uh, don't understand is that most of these leads are comprised of attorneys.
LT: That's exactly right.
DC: Ah, great point. That's a really good point.
Phil Colón: And attorneys are built to, to, to mitigate risks.
LT: That's the words I was thinking. The exact one's built.
DC: That's what, that's what they do. That's what they do.
Phil Colón: And so, but, but, but that's what they do. But CMOs fly in the face of that. So, you know, we want to innovate and push the envelope.
So when you have. That, that tug of war, if you will, if it's not a healthy tug of war, then the default is always going to be risk adverse, right? And so I think the leagues may suffer from a little bit of that. Um, and, and, and so that might get in their way, but it doesn't preclude brand saying, okay. you know, leagues, you won't go this far.
I'm going to go a step further. Uh, and the leagues do not mind as long as the brand is picking up that bill, go forth and prosper. What happens to the league, however, is you start to fall short of your fandom goals to keep fueling the growth of the game And and so it's it's it's a it's a long tail strategy Yes, it's a long tail strategy that still requires some innovation and some leap of faith Because you've got to at some point lean on the culture that got you there Right and that's going to take you further You And so I think that's kind of where we are. keeps me always optimistic is that, you know, I know what good looks like. I've been to what good looks like. So I know that there's a path to get there. And so, um, and so look, man, if you. Yeah. The, the, the, there's, there's, there's one role that I would ever consider in my life today if I had to go back on the, on the client side, and that would be CMO of MLB. Now, y'all can make that call. We can, we, we, we, we can make some magic happen.
DC: Ah,
LT: yeah. I think that's the perfect,
I think that's the perfect mic drop. We, we totally, we, we, um, if, if we had any influence, Phil, we'd be saying, yes, make this,
Phil Colón: but, but, but, but besides that, look, I, I, I think, I think, you know, look, I love this podcast because this podcast always leans into. What's now and what's next with a heavy emphasis on, on, on cross cultural and, and, and intersectionality. Sports is going to be the biggest, is the biggest thing that's happening in media and entertainment today. And it's going to increasingly be that way. It's going nowhere. So it'll be who brands to tighten up their sports marketing approach.
Um, put in people in the agencies in place to allow them to better take advantage, advantage of these opportunities and create some wins. And I think there's a lot there to be had. And, and, you know, I, you know, I think the Latin space is still a white space opportunity with plenty of opportunity on the marketing, on the media.
And on the product side,
LT: That's it. And Phil Colón for CMO of MLB.
DC: Mr. Manfred. You need to be given a call to this gentleman directly, Mr. Manfred.
LT: Right. Can make something happen, dude.
DC: Respectfully. Respectfully.
Phil Colón: I love to talk to the commission. Um, so, so there you have it. There you have it.
LT: That's a mic drop. D I see it. That's it.
Phil Colón: One other thing. One other thing. At. show.us at ElShow.us on TikTok and Instagram and wearesupremo.com. That is wearesupremo.com. If you want that software we'll put up. We'll put this in the show notes too, Phil. We'll put it in the show notes. And thank
you brothers.
LT: Brand Nerds. Thanks for listening to brands.
Beat some bites. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Tamen Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate, and Tom DiOro.
DC: The podfathaaa.
LT: That's right. And if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share. For those on Apple Podcasts, if you are so inclined, we love those excellent reviews you give us.
We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to next time where we will have more insight, more enlightening, talk about marketing.