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This week Derek, Reed and Bryn work with the garage door up. Step in and listen as they explore some of the underlying assumptions of Essential Dynamics and what they've learned from so many amazing guest.
Join Derek Hudson as he explores Essential Dynamics, a framework for approaching the challenges facing people and organizations. Consider your Quest!
And that sound means it's essential dynamics time. Welcome to the podcast that examines the dynamics that are essential to understanding how we progress. I've learned a lot from my friend, Derek Hudson, who has come up with this philosophy or this perspective, anyway. Derek, are you on the line? Are you there?
Derek:I'm here. Can you hear me, Reed?
Reed:Oh, there you are. Sprint is working today. Good. I'm I'm pleased that you're you're with us. Tell me, Derek, we've, over the last oh, I don't know how many episodes we're on now, 40 some episodes we've done together, of essential dynamics.
Reed:I think we're we're amassing a lot in our storage closet that seems very, very interesting, and I wanna come back and unpack a few things. Do you mind if we do that today?
Derek:That would be great. There's, like, so much in my head, and I have notes everywhere that aren't all connected yet.
Reed:Oh, good. We want to empty your head. No question. So, so, Derek, what do you looking back on these, I don't wanna get too nostalgic, but looking back on these, wonderful hours that we've spent together, what have you learned about the essential dynamics?
Derek:Hey, Reid. Great question because, you know, to be clear, essential dynamics is a way of learning things. It's not it's not the answer. It's it's an avenue to, you know, some questions to ask. And so what I've learned is that, the quest is just an inherent part of the human experience.
Derek:Sometimes we talk about, you know, story, but there's no story that isn't, you know, a quest. And so there's all kinds of stuff you can talk about with respect to an organization, a society problem, or a person that, you know, that has a story around it. And the story always has to deal with the fact that it's harder to get the thing done that than we want.
Reed:Is that does that apply to everything?
Derek:Well, the things that are easy to get done, we just do, and then there's no story. I I don't struggle to have enough to eat. Mhmm. There's not much of a story in, you know, getting nutrition in my body.
Reed:I understand.
Derek:But there's all kinds of really cool stories of survival I've read where that, you know
Reed:That is the case, of course.
Derek:That's that's a factor.
Reed:Yeah. And have you ever been on yeah. Our engineer, for instance, Brynn Griffiths, has lost his stomach, and I hope he finds it someplace because I haven't misplaced it.
Derek:That doesn't mean he threw up because something was gross. I mean
Reed:No. No.
Derek:Lost his stomach. Great. Can you hear me?
Bryn:Stomach. Do you want me to explain that quickly?
Reed:Yeah. Explain that. Yeah.
Bryn:Okay. I was, I was diagnosed with, I believe it's stage four stomach cancer, which isn't usually very good, good prognosis with that one. However, the option for me was to get rid of the tumor. They took the entire stomach out. So and then they attach the esophagus to the small intestines.
Bryn:They just kinda pull together, stitch it up, and so I've I've learned how to eat differently, but we all find a way to get the nutrition. It's just that we all go about it in different ways. And for me, it's been a bit of a struggle, but I'm now dealing with it, and it's a lot easier for me now to get the nourishment and the calories I need. You guys may be looking to cut calories. I'm looking to load up.
Bryn:So everybody everybody sees life a lot differently, and, we still all get the job done. At least I like to think that way.
Reed:Yeah. Yeah. And in our jargon of essential dynamics, what Derek has helped us understand is that what looking at your constraints, Bryn, like losing a stomach to me is a big deal. And you have been a hero of mine because you just accept it and have moved on and continue to survive. I have not heard any complaints from you.
Reed:I'm I don't know what it what it entails. I'm sure there are complaints, and I and I'm sure there are adjustments that, you know, for instance, I would not be willing to make.
Bryn:Well well, let me say that being part of what you guys are doing here with your podcast has been great for me just to sit back and listen. Right? So I've I've believed and when you go through something this dramatic and it, you know, to lose your stomach and almost your life because it's a eight and a half hour surgery, they have it done and I have some complications and there were a couple of nights where we weren't sure if I was gonna make it through, but yet here we are. But the two things that I've really started to, take a good look at here in the last almost two years is there's two words that now control my life, and that is simplify and focus. So what I'm doing is I take my life and I'm trying to simplify it as much as I possibly can, and then it's important for me to focus.
Bryn:And I guess if I was going to try to describe it in a different manner, it's I compartmentize the things in my life. And by doing that, it allows for less life clutter. And I see a lot of that in what you guys are talking about. And when you guys are talking with all the guests we've had on, it's just it's been fabulous for me. I've really enjoyed every minute of it because it kind of it it does sync up with my messaging that I'm trying to tell myself as I as I go through this.
Bryn:It just syncs up beautifully.
Derek:Yeah. Hey, Reid. Can I try something? Please do. You said, you know, what have I learned?
Derek:So I think the essential dynamics framework, people, path, and purpose, opposing forces, there's a quest. The the opposing forces on the purpose side, we can talk about purpose x and purpose y. You know, we have to we have to achieve, you know, sort of these, maybe potentially conflicting objectives, drivers and constraints on the path side, and then the needs of the individual needs of the group on on the, people side, that's that's holding up. And that that gives us a context where we can have all kinds of great conversations. But I'm wondering if there's some missing pieces.
Derek:And so I'm I'm gonna throw some other words out there, and this maybe you guys can see if they if they fit the model. I don't wanna complicate the model, because the model's nice. And like Brynn said, I'm looking for simplicity and clarity. It's important in our own lives, certainly important in organizations. So here's the concept.
Derek:I'm gonna put a link in the show notes, but Andy, Andy Matyschuck, has a website where he's got a bit of a, of a wiki of his thinking, and he calls it working with the garage door up. Love it. And so essential dynamics is this, you know, process of discovery. So essential dynamics is those things. And one of the things I was asking myself is, well, what are the principles, or what are the assumptions that kinda have to be valid for essential dynamics to be relevant?
Derek:And, I don't I wanna think through this. I don't know if I wanna, like, pile them all on the model. And so now it's there's a fold out and, you know, all this all this stuff. But here's some principles, and I might not even get through all of them in this conversation, but just toss them out. So the first principle, that I'm thinking that might be relevant is the idea of agency.
Derek:That we can, you know, we can make choices, that we're responsible for the choices that we make. If you go to the seven Habits of Highly Effective People, it's habit number one, be proactive. Work in your circle of influence. And, you know, we heard Kristen Cox, you know, talk about that too. Like, her work is to kind of clear things out, so you look at the things that you can have an impact on, and focus on those.
Derek:So is that, relevant, necessary? Is it so obvious you don't need to talk about it? What do you guys think?
Reed:Well, I don't think it's obvious. I one thing I have learned in all this, in all our efforts and and interviews, with great people, I I have noticed a theme among well, was it Alex Alex Clark and Katie Burgess. Do you remember Katie Burgess? I Yep. And and, and other people we talked to, Jeff Tetz.
Reed:All these are people who have, as well as as, Christian, what you just mentioned, these are people who have positive attitudes about their lives and are able to embrace change in a way that, that can affect it. It sort of it sort of happens naturally that they're going to influence people because of their their self confidence. I I see a lot of leadership qualities in these people, because I, as a as a callow sheep, wants to follow them. And, and so I find I find inertia, which we've touched on in other episodes, to be a real constraint in that I don't want to get out of my apartment because I know I can survive here.
Derek:So so, wow. That's that's really interesting. So Yep. Stephen Covey said, you work in your circle of concern, not, no. Sorry.
Derek:Pardon me. You work in your circle of influence. That's it. I may have said it wrong earlier. Working your circle of influence, the things that you can have an impact on, it gets bigger.
Derek:Your capacity to influence the world gets bigger when you work on the things that make, you know, that make an impact that you can choose. One of the things I'm wondering about. Yeah. And one one of the things I'm wondering about with, social media, this this idea identity politics, you know, talk talk about, you know, the the hardships that people face in the context of being a victim, that doesn't help people because, you know, all of us are have challenges. And when we work on stuff that we can have an impact on, you know, our capacity grows.
Derek:And we can't fix the world. Right. So if you're trying to fix the world I really like, Jordan Peterson's comment to, angry young men to clean up your room. You know, don't go protest and chain yourself to something. Clean up your room, get a job, you know, be the master of yourself, and then, you know, you can have an impact on the world.
Derek:So I do think agency or be proactive is an assumption that should get called out explicitly, because it's there's a real risk that we're gonna put our energy into, you know, writing our congressmen. I guess none of us have one, but, you know, and, you know, chain ourself to tree and trying to get the world to change when the real work is, just in our own in our own minds, in our own hearts, in our own homes.
Bryn:You know, I always remember something my dad once told me when I was a kid. And he said to me he looked me right in the eye, and he said, you're not going out dressed like that, are you? No. Anyway, it's got nothing to do with this whatsoever. But, anyway, I just thought I would throw
Derek:that in. The Yeah.
Bryn:The one thing for me, though, Derek And
Reed:there was forget.
Derek:I'll never forget. Glad pants, though, Brenda.
Bryn:I remember. Yes. It was. The the the one thing that I've taken out of all of the the episodes that you guys have done, and it boils down to what's important to me. As I said, simplify and focus.
Bryn:All these people there's so much stuff going on in the world here, and these people have got it together because they've been able to simplify their messaging to themselves first before they go out and push it on others. And I I I've enjoyed that. That's been that's been huge for me, Derek.
Derek:Oh, awesome. Can I go on, like, we could go on this one forever, but, there's a few more I wanna try in
Bryn:the time that
Derek:we have? Oh, cool. So another one is, I'm gonna call it natural laws. That we work in natural systems, the systems have limited resources, there's uncertainty, there's opposition, and then there's natural consequences. And maybe that's packing too much in one concept, but if you think about it, we a lot of a lot of stuff you read these days, people are complaining about stuff that's just, you know, it's subject to natural law.
Derek:You know?
Reed:Explain that more. Give me an example. I'm having trouble following.
Derek:Well, for example, the idea that, you know, the way to fight poverty is to give people more money. When the way to fight poverty is is to help people create value. You know, if people create value, there's value to share. If all we start doing is, you know, paying people to exist and I don't mean that I'm not opposed to to welfare for people who need it, but ultimately, the system has to create value. And if the system doesn't create value, it can't grow.
Derek:And if we're just moving stuff around, you know, we're messing with natural laws. Like, you know, that's not how you create abundance is by moving it around. You create abundance by creating value. Or this idea that we want, the COVID modeling. We want the calculation, so we know what's going to happen, so we know what to do.
Derek:You know, the government's hiding the modeling. Well, I've done financial models my whole professional life. They're not worth the spreadsheet cells they take up because we don't know what's gonna happen. And so we we fight against uncertainty when the natural course of action is, is we don't know what's gonna happen. You know?
Derek:And there are consequences.
Reed:Shouldn't we plan for uncertainty to a degree? Shouldn't shouldn't, I I get frustrated when, I hear politicians say well, in in United States, for instance, when they when it's hurricane season, nobody could have foreseen this. We could not have seen the devastation, but it happens every year.
Derek:Well, you know, and where I got that when COVID hit was, you try and get any service, and you call it up, and this is what you hear. This is what I hear. It's not what you say. It was what I hear. As anticipated, call volumes are higher than anticipated.
Derek:Yeah.
Reed:Yeah. Yeah. So, yes, but we we tend to we tend not to, plan for inevitable. Well, I don't wanna be a a Debbie Downer, but as you say, as we said throughout this throughout this process of this podcast, constraints are going to happen. We don't have to look for them.
Reed:We don't have to have to create them. They're going to create themselves.
Derek:Yeah. So we have limited resources. There's opposing for forces. There's uncertainty. And then everything we do, every choice we make has consequences.
Derek:So that's what I'm calling natural laws, and something in there tells me once in a while we need to remind ourselves, you know, that that's where we are. It reminds me of a canoe trip that I went on years ago, and I wish I I gotta dig these words out, but the guide, he was training us to be guides for a scout trip. And he gets
Reed:Was I with you, Derek? Was I with you on that canoe trip canoe trip?
Derek:Yeah. But but you fell out and we never got you back. So
Reed:I do remember that one now.
Derek:Yeah. Anyway, he said, the river is three things, and I they started with r, and the only one I remember is relentless. Wow.
Reed:Okay.
Derek:Right? So so nature is relentless, and, you know, we could wish it wasn't, but the hurricane is gonna be relentless. Gravity is relentless. Viruses are relentless. You know, it's a it's a cold, dark world world that we live in.
Derek:And we're we're we don't use our time well if we're complaining about the natural consequences or the natural risks or uncertainty of life. So that's one of my principles, I think, in like I put yeah. Time is limited.
Reed:Yeah. Time is relentless too.
Derek:Yeah. Is it time is, you know, extremely relentless. So let me qualify that with another principle, which I'm not sure, like, these are, like, kind of like physics. This is given. This is the way
Reed:Yeah. Yeah.
Derek:The world is. We can act, but we live in this environment where it's, you know, relentless forces. On the other hand, there's a principle that I'm trying to understand where it might fit, and that is, the principle of, abundance or optimism. Stephen Covey talked about the abundance mentality. I got this great quote.
Derek:I had to dig it out. And it's, it's Sam Sam Gamgee in Lord of the Rings where he says, that there's, the people, fought because there was there was something worth fighting for. You know, the people in the great tales, they never gave up because there was something worth fighting for. Or even just, you know, I mean, Geoff Tetz, you talked about him. He just said, you know, everybody has potential, untapped potential.
Derek:So I wonder if that's a principle. Like, why would we bother with a mental framework? Why would we bother with trying to improve systems if we didn't think we could improve them?
Reed:What do you find missing then? What what do you find in essential dynamics that is not describing this? Or or is it failing to describe
Derek:Well well, I'm kinda thinking that essential dynamics should be kind of neutral, and then you can lay values on top of it. But I'm not really sure about that. Like, for example, I've said that the purpose needs to always be about improving people's lives. Like there's no there's no other, you know, as human beings, there's no other purpose that ultimately, you know, maybe improving one person's life, or society, or some, you know, the people that buy You're on
Reed:to something there, Derek. Now all the people we've talked to who have been effective in their lives have had an attitude. It's been a it's been, they have some sort of confidence. I'm not sure how to define it yet either, but look at Bryn. Bryn's had these enormous challenges, health challenges, and has come back to, work here with us, which is probably his career highlight.
Bryn:It's up there.
Derek:It's up there. Yeah. Yeah.
Bryn:Has the check cleared? I just don't want
Derek:I wanted
Reed:to double check. But I I I'm saying everybody we've talked to and things that we admire, we're naturally drawn to, are people who are able to, take the constraints the constraints and take the take the, the difficulties, the opposition in stride. And and I don't one thing we've been missing to seeing in all of these interviews with people with with, all their disabilities or their challenges, whatever there had been
Derek:Yeah.
Reed:I had missed sadness. Now the sadness had to have occurred. I'm sure for Brynn, it occurred, but I have never heard him utter something in the present tense about that.
Bryn:But that's because and I can't speak for everybody else we've talked to that have had challenges. I use that to feed my fire. And I tend to be a positive kind of guy for the most part. I've always been like that. So when something bad goes wrong, I use that and the network of people that I associate with, who are an unbelievable support network.
Bryn:Those are those are, I guess, those are, kindling for my fire. And then when you add what we have been talking about now for, I don't know what, forty plus episodes,
Reed:where
Bryn:I can take a little more kindling off of listening to you guys and your guests, and I use it to continue to feed my fire. That's what it's all about for me. But but Derek, I'm not sure we're gonna ever get a lot of these questions fully answered because the moment we start answering these questions, we're gonna have a few more. But I kinda find that that's exciting to me.
Derek:Well Yeah. You know, it really is. Hey, Reid. Going back to sadness, I'm just thinking of, two comments that we had in previous episodes. One was Mackenzie Brown, where she said you just kinda have to sit with it.
Reed:Yeah. You gotta you know,
Derek:and we were talking about residential schools, and, you know, you gotta you gotta feel that, and you gotta sit with it, and then you move forward. Just don't bounce through it, and then No.
Reed:Or ignore it either. You don't ignore it either. Yeah. Especially in the picture. She was very effective about that.
Derek:And then Katie Burgess, super positive person. When she talked about her injury, she used the word grief. And she said, you know, sometimes I just have to stop and grieve, that I can't walk, and then I keep going. Yeah. And then we talked more generally about this idea of opposition.
Derek:And we like the concept because it makes for a good story, but the reality is that it hurts to to hurt.
Reed:Yes. Yeah. Hey. This is hard.
Bryn:I I have to jump in because this is what I do here, is that we're gonna be always asking great questions here. The problem we have now is we don't have enough time to do that because we have more guests coming up.
Reed:Oh, that's right. We do. So, Brynn, just, well, we'll talk again because Oh, yeah. We'll we'll this is this this self analysis of what we're doing, and this reflection on, I on our what we've learned is as important as the quest itself for me. I think it is the quest.
Reed:I, for me, I am I am learning so much about myself because we are asking these questions.
Bryn:All you have to do is yell. I'm I'm listening to the show when I'm not on it.
Derek:Hey. Yeah. So thanks guys for letting me, yak out loud for a few minutes.
Bryn:No. I've enjoyed that. That was great, and thanks for having me on.
Reed:Hey. Well, for Brynn Griffiths in the studio, thank you, Brynn. Derek, where can people find you if they, if they wanna get ahold of you?
Derek:Just come on down to derek hudson dot c a and let me know what, what questions you have.
Reed:I think that would be great. Bryn, do you have an, a website people can can visit?
Bryn:Best way to track me down is Bryn, b r y n, at road fifty five dot c a. That's my that's the best email address to get me at. And, and then the other one is I'm on Twitter, which is at Bryn mighty mouth. So those are the best ways to get a hold of me.
Reed:Thank you, Bryn. And, of course, I'm Reid McCollum, and if you need to get in touch with me, my number is +1 800 I'm lonely.
Derek:That's what I
Bryn:have written down here.
Reed:Yeah. It is. It's great.
Bryn:Okay.
Reed:Yeah. Well, that this has been a great talk. Let's talk more, and always be thinking about it. And, for Derek Hudson, our guru, if you will, and Brynn Griffiths, our engineer in the studio, I'm Reid McCollum reminding you to consider your quest.