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The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. Author and lead pastor of Sandals Church, Matt Brown debriefs current issues shaping our culture from a spiritual perspective.
Hey, Debrief listeners, thanks for joining us for our special episode of favorites, where we took our favorite clips from the last year and compiled them into one long episode. And don't worry if you like any of the clips or you want to go back and watch the episodes, you can find all the episode specifics in the description. Let's jump in. All right, Christina from Bellflower. Hey, Christina. There are so many different Bibles available to choose from. How do you know which Bible is best to begin with? There's KJV, CSB, FSB, NIB, I don't know, NIB is, maybe she means NIV, and many more. I'm wondering what the differences are. Yeah. So there's tons of translations. And so here's a sad thing is, is, uh, publishers like to come up with translations because they don't want to pay royalties to others. Oh, so that's why. So like in my, I just finished my book on Monday. So what I do is I use multiple, um, translations because if you use a certain percentage of one translation in your book, you have to pay a royalty. Oh wow. But if you mix it up, you don't. So if you're wondering, I'm going to go ahead and say, I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations because I'm going to use multiple translations if you use a certain percentage of one translation in your book, you have to pay a royalty. Oh wow. But if you mix it up, you don't. So if you're wondering when you read my book, why does he keep bouncing around with all this? Because I don't want to pay a royalty to the NIV or to, I don't know if anybody owns the King James. The new King James is owned by somebody. But yeah, so there's what I would say is all the translations are great. I think the King James version is the least great because it's not based upon the best manuscripts. So we've found more manuscripts, we have earlier manuscripts than we did several hundred years ago when they translated the King James Version. And so a lot of people think the King James Version is the only authorized version. It wasn't even the most popular version. So there was a huge push in the 19th century to push the Schofield Bible, anybody that's like into the Rapture, anybody that's a, what do you call it, into Dispensationalism, so the Scofield Bible, they worked really, really hard, raised a lot of money to get those Bibles into the homes of people in America, and so that's why so much of the theology, so who believes that? If you saw the Jesus Revolution, I mean, that's the Scofield Bible. You know, people that have identified, you know, the end times in a very, very specific way that comes from that but the King James Version became popular for two reasons because it was given free to people in the West and we are very poor so I tell people all the time if you want to know the history of America racist illiterate and poor those are the three things that you need to understand so all of our kids understand the racism but they're like I don't understand why people didn't stand up in March I'm like they didn't have time to protest yeah they were poor and they were going to starve. That's why they had 12 kids get to work, sweetie. Right. Because they just they just couldn't make it. And it was it was it was rough out here, but it was racist. It was poor and it was illiterate. So the school system in America started to use the King James Bible because it was the only book people had in their homes. And so they started to use the King James Bible, because if you know, we just think of books like, oh, just take a book home. But it was the only way kids could study at home because it was the only book that they had in the homes. And so that's really where the popularity of the King James Version came up. I personally like the Christian Standard Bible. I think it's fantastic. I think they do a great job. I actually didn't agree with one of the ways they translated a passage in 1 Corinthians 5.12. I wrote a note, they changed it in the updated version. So yeah, I was like, hey guys, this is not what this means. And so you got to know that all translations are committee. Yeah, so they're sitting in their committee. And, you know, every every translation committee has a theology. I think that's a challenge. But, you know, like when the TNIV came out, you know, there was a lot of things. Well, they're getting rid of, you know, the male pronouns. But like, for example, this verse, there's so many verses where it's really problematic. If any man would come after me, well, what about you? Yeah, so it needs to be translated if any person. So there are times where we need to have a non specific gender pronoun. It is a person's not a pronoun. What is person? Because he her is pronoun. So but where you make you need to make it gender neutral because the audience needs to understand that they're inclusive. And so people get really upset about that. I do think God's God's pronoun should remain he because, not that God is a he, but because Jesus calls him father. And so people are like, why does God have to be a man? And I'm like, well, Jesus said. I'm like, look man, if there's anybody who knows what God is better than me, it's Jesus. So I'm going to go with him. And I'm not going to fight Jesus on calling him dad. I'm just not. And that's not because I think men are better. I mean, Jesus tells the woman at the well that God is not a man, He's spirit. So God is not, does not have genitalia. He's not human. He is spirit. And so that's important for us to remember. But we are to look to Him as a Father because men carry a portion of who God is that is to be respected and revered. And that's just important. Women carry a portion of who God is to be respected and revered because you have the ability to create life. Men don't have that. And so we seem to understand that it's a beautiful thing. So I would say the Christian standard Bible, the version I have is the Holman standard Christian Bible. The new one is better, the CSB, and that's the one where I wrote the note and said, and you know, it's funny when you read new Bibles, I find errors in them all the time. Makes me feel so good about my book because there are errors all in my book. But you know, just certain things like, instead of and, it'll be a-n. You just find mistakes. I'm wondering if AI, GPT will change that. Because it will be way better at catching stuff than human beings. I just bought a Christian, Tony Evans Christian Standard Bible. Study Bible. Yeah, so I love the CSB. I would love one day to partner with CSB to write a real Bible study. That would be awesome. Yeah, I think we could do that together. So this is right in front of me, for those who are watching. This is the Holman Christian Standard Bible. So now they just call it the CSB, the Christian Standard Bible. They dropped the Holman. The Holman is the publishing, but it's the latest manuscript evidence. What I love about it is any verse that's challenged or has a problem, they bracket it. And then they're going to tell you right below what the problem is. This is not in some manuscripts. This has been changed. This could be translated this way or that way. They give you the variation. So when you're in committee, let's say there's 10 of us, and 7 of us want to translate it this way, and then 3 don't. What they do is they tell you what the three, the dissenting opinion was. And it's never like this verse is black versus this verse is white. It's the difference is this verse is black or this is dark gray. That's going to be the difference in the translation. It's not like there's no verse that says Jesus isn't the son of God. So don't think that. It's exactly what is he saying, what is the context. So the question we had earlier about the swords, that's one of the bracketed texts when you read that in the Gospel of Luke. Jesus tells them to get two swords. And they said, we have two. And he says, I think in the Brahman Holman, it's, that is enough. It can be translated, that is good, or you have done well. So they're not exactly – Jesus is affirming something. They're not exactly sure how he's affirming that. And so there just are some things in the Bible. And there are some words guys like, do you know what Noah built the ark out of? Does anybody know? Pitch, gopher. Yeah, gopher wood. So what is gopher wood? I have no idea. No one knows. Nobody knows what, what go, so, so what is gopher wood? That's literally, uh, the, the consonants are G V R, gooper. Nobody, nobody knows what that is because the Hebrew language ceased to exist in 200 AD. So they just quit using it. They started speaking Greek. So it's not until really after Christians and we start exclusively speaking Greek that the Jews are like, okay, the temple's destroyed. We've got to go back and really start working on the Hebrew again. But you know, it's just like, are any of you guys an ethnicity? I mean I know you're black but are you anybody speak a language? No we're all just lame Americans. But like a lot of people I was out to dinner last night with some Chinese church members and I asked them I said can you speak Mandarin and they're like oh yeah of course and I was like why do you say of course? I said a lot of my Chinese friends can't. Just like a lot of second or third generation Hispanics speak zero Spanish and and so that's what happened with the Jews is Hebrew was a language where, okay, yeah, you can read the scriptures, but how do you buy groceries? How do you get a job? How do you work? And so it just kind of fell out of favor. And then especially when they translated the Bible into Greek, it's called the Septuagint, they just started using it exclusively in Greek. And so just so you know, Jesus, Paul, the disciples would have been most familiar, not with the Hebrew version of the Bible They would have been familiar with the Greek version of the Bible and there are some differences so So they're all great the translations are great I hate it when you know pastors and I do this I'm just as guilty as this you know make a big deal about the original language Any and no pastor that you will ever meet is going to be as good as a committee of of linguistic scholars who have dedicated their life, not to preaching, but to understanding every nuance. They know the history of the word. They know all of that. And so, you know, I like the CSB. I preach a lot in our church out of the NLT. And so the NLT is unique because they believe, like I do, that the early Christians did not read the scriptures. They heard them. So the Bible was not written to be read, it was written to be heard. And so I love the NLT because it communicates well to the ear. And so some people say, well, it's not literal. Well, sometimes literal is really hard to understand its meaning. And it's why I don't like the King James, because when you give the King James, then I have to translate the English to you. Like you don't even know what the English word that I'm using is. And so now I'm doing a whole nother step that I don't think needs to do. But some people are King James only. They're all about the King James. It's just their tradition. There was a movement in the 70s when the Living Bible was translated. The Amplified Bible came out and the NIV came out. There was this reaction, this negative reaction, which is so hilarious because do you know why we have the King James Bible? Because guys like William Tyndale died, were burned at a stake so it could be translated from Latin into English. But then they're like, oh no, now it's frozen in time. I mean, we just keep doing this and it's like, look man, we need to update the language so that the people can understand. Because language is dynamic. It's always changing. It's not frozen in time. It's why when you're a kid and you study Shakespeare, you're like, what? What did he say? Well, because English has changed. And so, yeah, these are great questions. Thanks guys. We don't have any questions by guys. Oh, we did it? No male questions. McKay's looking at me. Yeah, yeah. Matt's looking at me. Let's do one more. Right there. One more. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. As he's coming up, so this is my good friend Tyler. So his wife is actually here, Stephanie. Let's give her a hand. She did 199. I'm just kidding. Yeah, so Stephanie started the debrief with me and I'm so grateful. So this is why I love Stephanie. So she was actually, I think my assistant at the time and we were sitting down to record and I said, we need a feminine voice. And she was the only woman in the room. So I said, I was like, you guys should just, I said, just jump behind the mic. And she was so great. And so let's give her a hand. You were awesome. We love you. Yes, Stephanie. Woo! Okay, my question, it kind of ties in with the last one. And I work in a very male field and I've come to see the decline of men wanting to be in church, be a part of church, especially with my age group, millennials. And I'm just wondering why that is and what I can do, what we can do as a church to change that. That's great. Thank you very much. So I think that it's a direct result of the feminization of culture. It's just a reality. You know, we've forgotten what men are. Tammy and I were watching The Bachelor the other night and the guy had hair on his chest and everybody's like ooh like that's what a man looks like I don't know I don't know what you guys think but I don't wax you know like you know and seriously I mean think about that we're trying to make men look like women and it's it's because you know there's a reason we say toxic masculinity but we don't say toxic femininity how many of you have ever met a toxic woman okay yeah I mean, boo. Both genders are prone to sinfulness. And so, you know, I think that men get a bad rap. And so, ladies, you need to champion men. You need to be there for men. For a lot of history, women got a bad rap. They didn't have a voice. They had not much authority. And here's what we always do. The pendulum swings too far. And so now guys don't want to get married and why would they want to do that? Why would they want to step up and be a man and have a family when they're going to work hard and you can leave him and he loses half of everything he has because of what you did. That's our culture. Right. I prayed with a guy today. I can't be this specific. I prayed with a guy today who literally got moved out of his house because his ex said it was his and the court just believed her. And he's out of his own home. And you know, I don't want to get any more specific than that, but that's ladies, you've been given a lot of power. You didn't have it, but now you do. And so what we need to say is we need to equally admire both men and women and celebrate both men and women. have to do is we have to celebrate things about men that maybe make us uncomfortable. You know men get angry but if we ever go to war we're gonna need a little anger. We're gonna need a little masculinity. You know we can't have lieutenant latte right charging the front so in his skinny jeans you know what I'm saying? We need real men and so what we have to do is, part of that ladies is being involved with the educational system and calling out feminism when you see it. Boys aren't good at sitting still and being quiet. It's why my grandchildren will probably have all female professors. going that far academically anymore because they just they don't want to sit still. They don't want to play your games. They don't want to live life the way you do. And so we have to learn how to tap into that masculine spirit and say, look, it's OK. And I try to speak to men in our church. I think it's why Jordan Peterson's so powerful and so popular. I think it's why Joe Rogan is so popular. And I don't agree with everything that either of those guys say. I don't agree with everything I say. But what they are is they're unapologetically men. Right. And and and what I love about Jordan Peterson is, you know, ladies, we've only talked about equity in the cool jobs. We don't talk about equity in the crap job. Yeah. You know, we don't want equity in bricklaying. You know, Tyler's in construction. You know, I mean, when's the last time you got a contractor and a woman showed up and said, where are we going to put this bathroom? You know? I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying it's rare. It's extraordinarily rare. And men have to do difficult, hard jobs that oftentimes involve death. And we need to thank God for men that are willing to do those jobs. I think healthy, secure women want strong, masculine men. We don't want Lieutenant Latte. You know, we... Unless he's making you a drink. Well, my husband makes me coffee almost every morning, except for this morning. What happened? No, I'm just kidding. We strong, healthy women recognize their need for strong masculine men. men and I think when you rage against, I mean it's beautiful how God has made us complimentary and we have to celebrate each other. We have to celebrate. I don't want to lay bricks, you're right, and I don't want to run into war. I will make the pancakes for when the men come back or whatever and I am perfectly fine. I don't want to run out there. Yeah, we are either raised to be men or we're not. Yeah, that's true. And so I think about my grandfather. You know, I have a clip that's going viral right now. And where I talk about not fighting. And somebody said something really disparaging about my grandmother. They called her a female dog, actually. That was their post. Which didn't offend me, I just laughed. Because I know who my grandmother was. And your name calling doesn't impact who she was. But let me tell you who she married. She married a man who lied about his age. Who said he was 18. And he got on a boat. And he fought a country he'd never heard of. To set Chinese people, Korean people, and Filipinos free. That's what he did at the age of 16. He was shot and he was wounded. My whole life he pointed at me without a finger because as he charged a beach he lost that finger he was so maimed by a grenade that they told my great grandmother he was dead for three months because his dog tag blew off onto somebody else and he called my grandmother who had to drive my great grandmother to drive to Auburn City Hall because they're the only one the phone so she could talk to her dead son Wow and he said mom I'm not dead. My great grandma passed out. That's a different breed of man. Right. Come on. That's what I'm saying. That's a different breed of man. And and and not just white men. There were black men. Right. Who got on segregated ships to fight for this country, this broken, racist country. But they loved it. Yeah. And man, I just think we need to raise men like that again. And we need to, you know, like we want everything safe. Ladies, God did not make us to be safe. That's why we're so thick headed. He made us to be dangerous. And there's a part of us and I want you to think about that when Adam and Eve sin, God puts a flaming cherubim in front of the Garden of Eden with a sword. Do you want to know why that is? Because Adam was badass. And you ain't keeping him out unless you put a powerful angel there with a sword. That's who Adam was. You ever think about who named a lion? Come here, kitty cat. He did. You have no idea who you are as a man. And so we're talking about women because we're talking about the role of women, but what we need is strong women to call out men to be strong Yeah, that's good to call out and And that's what we need and to affirm our masculinity and to affirm that we are different You know I love my wife. I am NOT a woman. I don't think like her. I don't process like her I don't see the world like she does I love her and she gives me a different set of eyes. But I give her a different set of eyes. And you're right. Somebody breaks into our house, my wife doesn't want to be equal. She's like, you go die. You, you. Even for the bugs. Yeah, you're not this head, you're that head. Go. Forget the murderer, the cockroach. I don't want to be, you know, equal. Man, I felt the Lord on that. That was really good. Yeah, thank you. Like super, super, super good. Thank you for that question. Seems like social media is overflowing with scary clickbait videos on the end times and I'm tired of being caught up in the fear and urgency of these claims. Are there any words of wisdom you could pass on to people like me on the subject of the end times? Are the other sermons or books you would recommend for those of us who would like guidance in this area? Yes, everybody who's ever taught in the end times has been wrong. Okay, in the entire history of Christianity, not one pastor has been correct. Okay. So what are the chances? So what are the chances that you're going to name the person you're listening to right now on social media? What are the chances that they're correct? Nobody knows. And let me just say this, man, for all these Christians who are, you know, we made a joke the other day. I love Babylon B, man. It literally, there's two things I want in the morning before I read my Bible, coffee and Babylon Bee. And Babylon Bee's made fun of me by the way. So yeah, it's fine. When I had Mark Driscoll on the podcast, yeah, they made fun of us, which is fine. You know, if you can't laugh at yourself, you don't know yourself. So what was I saying? You said you love the Babylon Bee. We're going to talk clickbait on the end times. Oh, yeah, yeah. And it just had a picture of persecuted Christians in Asia praying for Americans because we can't go to Disneyland. It was just like, it was hilarious. And so here's the thing, let me just put this out there, for everybody who feels like this is the end times and you had to get the vaccine shot and that's the mark of the beast. What do we say, was it 15 years ago? I don't remember. men on the beach of Alexandria who were beheaded by ISIS because they were Christians. So talk to me about what you're facing right now. Like just, I mean, help me understand how what you're facing right now is as bad as those dudes who all 21 of them got their heads cut off because they wouldn't renounce Christ. That was like, was it 10 years ago? They're on the beach in orange suits. They cut their heads off. They were Coptic Christians. Coptic Christians have been persecuted for 2000 years. 2000 years. 2015. So get over yourself and your little latte violations and Just understand the church has been hunted by the beast in Revelation and that beast is not some future present It was a real beast that was hunting a real church in Rome who were being burned Heads were cut off their children were being sold into slavery Their lives were ruined because of their faith in Christ the book of Revelation didn't just not mean anything until today. It meant something to the church in Rome and they were being hunted by Nero. And 666 may have a number today and by the way, you know my take on it, it's probably AI, it's probably chatGBT, that's probably, it ain't Trump and it's not Biden, it's probably some, here's what I think, I mean I think that there's, God created us in his own image and we sinned, I think we're going to create AI and it's going to kill us. That's what I think. I think when we try to mimic what God does, it's what destroys us. God gives us sex to create life, we do it our way and it brings death. God creates us, we create artificial intelligence. If 666 means anything in an actual number, 666, that's the actual number in the Greek, if it means anything today, it's some kind of computer code and it's probably some kind of convergence of artificial intelligence and human life. It's not your social security number. I mean, but I'm probably wrong just like everybody else. But that's what I think. You know, but all these guys, here's what they're doing. They're scaring you to build their church and build the following. They don't know. Yeah, it's clickbait. I listened to a pastor say this, and this is a famous pastor, and I actually like a lot of things that this guy does. He said 100% Israel's at war right now. He said that last week. 100% Israel is not at war right now. 100%. They are not at war right now. Like you will know when they're at war. Everyone will know. You're not going to need to put the pieces together. You know? And so we just got to understand. And some of these things, you know, well how do we know when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the temple? I don't know how to be any clearer than that. You know? When someone who makes them out to be God is standing in the temple, okay? But I feel like that's a pretty good clue. Like, I don't know. So most of these guys are trying to scare you. So are we in the endgame now. This is the endgame. And so why hasn't Jesus returned? Because one of you knuckleheads needs to give your life to Christ and when the full number of the elect have been saved, he'll return. Specifically, by the way, the full number of the elect are of every tribe, every tongue, every nation. Zechariah says that there will be at least 10 people represented from every ethnicity. Why 10? That's the number to create a synagogue. There will be at least 10 men from every tribe, every tongue, every nation who give their life to Christ. Jesus Christ came to save all nations, all peoples, not just Americans who had a good run when everybody thought the way that we thought was the way. That's not what they think anymore. And we have got to figure out how to engage with culture. We have to make a better argument. We have to win. That's what the church had to do for hundreds of years. So we went from being hunted to converting the Roman Empire. Not because we won elections, but because we won hearts. We changed lives. And, you know, we're not going to change America by making a stand on abortion. Adopt. Help out single moms. Do whatever you can to help women choose life. That's how you change the world. That's how you change the world. You know? And so there's not one passage in the New Testament that speaks about abortion. But do you know that abortion was extraordinarily common in Rome? Especially if you were a little girl. So you have a little girl, right? I do. So, so if Tyler was a Roman, he probably would have had you take your daughter and set her at the steps of a local temple to die on the steps. And you know who scooped her up, Christians. And they didn't care what color she was. They didn't care what ethnicity she was. And then all of a sudden, in 30 or 40 to 50 years, we have this church that's every tribe, every tongue, every nation. Because Christians didn't protest abortion, they scooped up unwanted babies. And they said, we'll raise them, we'll raise you. And that's how the church became so diverse, so incredibly diverse. And it changed. And again, I'm not saying abortion is right. I'm just saying you don't change anybody by shouting that. You change that by actually coming along women who find themselves in a difficult situation. And you say, we're going to love you and we're going to be here. And let me just say this, change, really changing someone's life is hard. I just finished my next book. It's called Everyday Miracle and one of my chapters is on healing the broken heart and I have this friend in my life and she's been my friend since we had this ministry called JC's Girls and if you want a good laugh go back and watch that. You know but we didn't change many prostitutes we didn't save many porn stars because it's really hard to change people. But this gal came out of prostitution and she was changed. And here's what I learned in that ministry. You can't just save women from that by proclaiming the truth. You save women from that by moving them into your home. And my friend, she was moved into a home in our church. A husband and a wife. I want you to imagine Tyler telling you, we're moving a prostitute into our home. And it took 10 years. 10 years. And she hugged me for the first time at her 40th birthday. And you said, what's the big deal? She didn't want to be touched. Male touch? Dangerous. Even from her pastor. And she hugged me for the first time. And that's in my book on how to heal a broken heart. It took years, years and years. And she's still not healed. She's healing. And so here's the thing, guys, we don't change people by screaming at people. We change them by inviting them in our homes and saying, I'm going to love you and I'm going to go through this life with you. I mean, that's why I love you so much, Steph. I mean, we've been together, I don't know how long. Yeah, a long time. So you were a kid when I met you, a college kid. You know, not that you're old now, I'm not saying that. But, you know, I mean, I've prayed with you. But I'm very far from that. Yeah, I prayed with you with tears, you know, when you were like, I don't want to be single. I prayed with you with tears when you got married. You know, I prayed with you with tears, you know, you know, when you had kids. I called you on Christmas Eve. Do you remember this? I do. Because your mom died. You know, and it was Christmas Eve. Yeah. But you're my friend and I love you. And you guys can't tell, but she's crying. Sorry, I didn't tell you I was going to say that. But why did I call you on Christmas Eve? Because you're family. Yeah. And I... And I did not take a lot of calls that day. I know. I'm sorry. No, but I wanted to talk to you. Yeah, yeah, I know. I knew. You've lived with me. You know, and people don't realize that's Christianity. Christianity is, you know, Stephanie, you're my sister in Christ and I love you and I'm there for you and we've had, you and I have had some hard talks. You've challenged me. You've said, man, I don't think you should go with that. You know, and we've been blessed by each other and it's not perfect and it's messy and it's not easy but the Christian life transformation does not happen from an altar call. It happens from relationship. And he said, well Pastor Matt you should give an altar call. Okay, Jesus didn't, God didn't send an altar call. He sent his Son. Relationships change people and that's how we change people and so sorry I made you cry, but that's life. That's how we do this. And so... And I would say on that same tone too, even back to Bailey's question, where she's getting nervous is what she's seeing on social media. And social media will show you the things that it knows you want to look at. And so for you, your social media is full of videos about the end times, because you've seen those before, you've looked at them, so it's telling you this is everything that's out there. Mine is not. There's more out there. And just be aware of the way that social media is built to show you the things that it wants you to see. And it makes you think that's all that's out there. Get into relationship with people who see differently. Look at the Bible for yourself. Get out of, I think it's, because I do this all the time. I'll spend time on TikTok and I'll do, I need to get off of here. Because this is, it's telling me things that I think, it thinks I want to hear. And you all of a sudden spend a couple hours on there and you're getting real weird about what you believe and what you think. And it makes you think that's what everyone thinks. Absolutely. And so here's the problem with social media. And I don't know what the right answer is because, you know, I'm a libertarian at heart. And so I may not agree with what you do, but I want to live in a country where I get to be who I want to be and you get to be who you want to be as long as that doesn't negatively affect either of us. I'm not a big fan of morally making people live like me and I don't want you to make me live like you. That's the beauty of America. Those white dudes with wigs, they got a few things right and that was one of them. And so we need to stand up for that. But the problem is, you know, these algorithms, they know that two things really affect you. So enragement leads to engagement. So if it can make you mad, that's what the computer program knows. And the other thing is it can make you afraid. Yeah. And so, and then there's sex. So, so enragement, fear, and then horniness, right? So those are the things that, that it knows that it can, it can lure you in. And, and so their advertising dollars are based upon eyes watching. Yeah. And so, so they don't care. They don't care about your mental health. They want you to stare at that thing all day long. And, you know, and so, and so, and so this is a big problem. This is the problem with free. Everybody wants everything for free, so these companies have to make money. And so when we used to pay for television and there used to be advertisers, right, there were limitations on what you could show because they realized when they'd gone too far. Now when it's so specific and it's just you and the privacy of your own home, man, let it go. And so now you think, everybody, you know, and it's like oh my gosh What the other day you're afraid he's rivers drying. Is there irrigating it? Yeah, the book of Revelation says it's like oh my gosh They're irrigating it, you know, and nothing on my social media has told me that Yeah, so so so, you know Bailey are we in times? Yeah, we have been for 2,000 years. Could Jesus return tomorrow? Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, but none of these guys, gals, they're never right. They're never right. And nobody goes back and apologizes to all the poor Seventh-day Adventists that sold everything and sat on their roofs waiting, I think it was in the 1920s, for Jesus's imminent return. That's awkward. You sold everything you had and you were sitting on the roof because Jesus can't lift you up off the floor. He's got to pull people out of the grave. Jesus could come out of the dead, but he can't lift me off the ground. I've got to help Him. And there's multiple movements like this, you know, out of the Schofield Bible. And this, oh my gosh. And so when you read those scriptures through the Schofield lens, guess what you see? That's all, wow, there it is again. We are all looking for evidence to support what we already believe. That's what social media does. Is it, you know, so this one thing happens, this must be true. And this is why, you know, there's, you know, people think we're more racist when we're not. It's way less racist. But because social media is affirming these things, oh, this must be happening everywhere. You know, some Christian was persecuted, oh, this is happening everywhere. And it's like, look, you know, it's just generating whatever's going to get you to stay on. And we need to know that. So, so Bailey, I'm sorry. You know, and I did teach on revelation what a year and a half ago. Yeah, 2020 I did teach on it. Nobody cared because people thought the pandemic was over. I just timed that series poorly. You know, I wish Putin would have called me and then I would have known, oh, we got to wait until you invade. You know, nobody knows who Gog and Magog is. I hear all this. It's like, okay, you know, and it changes and it has changed, you know, from century to century. A lot of people thought Genghis Khan was God and may God. Well, nobody cares about Genghis anymore because he's dead. And Mongolia doesn't have an awesome army, but they did at one time, and they were convinced that's who that was. And so these things change based upon whatever the current enemy is. young people today who just feel like they can't they can't be a person of faith and hold the science. How do you do that? Because you're both. So I grew up not really even knowing or thinking there was a conflict. Okay. So I went to public school from you know first grade through my PhD. Okay. Everything. So you didn't have professors that were anti-God when you were in school? I did. Yes, I did in graduate schools where I started to run into them. Amazingly so. When I was working on my masters at Texas A&M, and A&M is supposed to be a fairly conservative public school, but I ran into some issues with other... I was really horrible at debating science and religion. My first year as a grad student, we had one main office where all the physics grad students were and I was kind of trapped in the corner and there was this really good atheist on this side and this really good atheist on this side. What I mean by that is if you look at the bookshelf, they both have Bibles on the bookshelf. They love to get in arguments and they love to destroy you and try to use science to destroy the Bible. Wow. And so I would constantly, I guess, argue, debate with them like that. And I don't think I was good at it all. And my other friends who were Christians in the department said, why do you even debate with them? Shut up. You're going to get killed. It's two on one and they're ready for you. You know, they've prepared everything. And they were really good at this. I finally figured out, and my other Christian friends said, quit debating, quit debating. I go, I lost, didn't I? I lost. I'm losing debates, aren't I? And then what happened was before I left and came out here to finish my PhD at UCR, I kind of won the last debate. I asked my other friends, did I win? They go, no, yeah, yeah. So I'm going to walk away a winner. I'm not going to have any more debates with them. I think I won the last one. I'm going to win. But it took me a long time to figure out there was even this world of science and faith and science and religion. Like it was in academia to have these discussions. I was just having these debates with other graduate students in physics who were atheists. And so I didn't know the terminology either. And I finally figured out what they thought about me. And that's why I couldn't understand or respond to their questions. It's called God of the Gaps theory. And I don't really know very many Christian scientists who all who have that theory, but I found realize that atheists think that. The God of Gaps theory is this, that the only reason why you or I believe in God, or the only reason why a scientist believes in God, is because there's unanswered questions of science. Science can't explain this yet, so you need a God. As soon as science can explain everything in nature, there's no need for a God. I've never thought that, but it took me forever to figure out that's what they were saying. And all their arguments they were trying to show, see, once we find the Higgs particle, which is now found. I still remember one debate with them saying, once we find the top quark, the bottom quark, and the Higgs particle, it's all over with. Now we have found all of it. Physics is done, the world is over with, no need for a God. And that was assuming that I believe in God because there are some questions that science hasn't answered yet. I'm like, that isn't why I believe in God, but I didn't really grasp that God of the gaps theory. Yeah, and you're old enough to kind of scratching their heads going with the breaking down of the DNA sequence and stuff like that where they're seeing code and they're kind of going, okay wait a minute, this certainly looks like it's been programmed by, and they might not use the word God, but some form of higher intelligence. Are you seeing that or no? I mean, I've seen that in my area of astrophysics with Big Bang Theory and so forth. I've seen that. And in genetics, I'm really interested in genetics, by the way. And I'm going to talk about more of that later because I think there's an audience question that involves some ideas I have about genetics. So I've actually gone to – got some money from the Human Genome Project just to study. I'm a physicist, not a geneticist, but I wanted to get educated on it and bring some of it back. And I brought what I learned about genetics back into my science and faith classes too. But yes, there's a thing called the Anthropic Principle. It basically means, what are all the things in nature that have to be extremely finely tuned for us to be here? Some of these things, like for example, if the neutron is slightly, slightly more massive than the proton, you reverse it and no universe, essentially. Now when people first started coming up with all these different things, like if gravity was slightly weaker, we would have expanded and stars would never form. It was slightly stronger, the universe would have already collapsed on itself. The universe wouldn't be here. There was about 29 when this kind of became very popular decades ago. It's like these 29 different principles. Now what are the odds that these are all this finely tuned? And the odds aren't one in a million, one in a billion, one in a trillion. They're one in a trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion. They're like ridiculous odds. And if you talk to statisticians at some point, it's like we just say there's no chance this is happening. And this is where infinity comes in. So where an atheist comes in and by the way there's more than 29 things, people have come up with over a hundred. There's over a hundred different variables in nature including genetic stuff like this that either humans wouldn't be here or even the universe wouldn't be here if just one of these goes wrong. So we're super fine-tuned. The odds that we're here are so astronomical that it's hard to believe we're here. It's much easier to believe in a creator than not to believe in a creator because the odds are just against it being a fluke. So, what was I? I don't know, you're the genius. Anyway, so this principle is basically the issue that... Are you... Oh, infinity. That's what I was trying to say. So what you have is... But if you give... Here's what you get. If you give an infinite number of attempts, the probability is one, we're here. That's the argument of the atheistic philosophers of science. If the universe has an infinite number of attempts, the problem is with that, and I bring up a lot of time with physicists, there's no such thing as infinity. Infinity is not a real number. It's a construct. It's a concept. It doesn't exist. But yet with these multiverse theories out there, there's an infinite number of universes. There's an infinite number of Matt Browns out there, an infinite number of temples. We all know there can only be one, except for the MMA fighter who knocked out his opponent this weekend, I got to say. You guys see that Matt Brown one? Yeah, he's been losing. So it's been tough. Every time he gets knocked out, everyone texts me like it's me. So sorry. But there is an MMA fighter named Matt Brown. That's great. So and the problem is you need infinity to get a lot of these theories to work and you will have and the people that mostly will say things against infinities are mathematicians not physicists. It's like the physicists love it and you'll have some famous mathematicians who will say, quit using infinity so much. You're treating infinity like it really exists. And I don't believe there's an infinite number of anything. But infinities are often needed to get over this idea that to work around what's highly unlikely we're here without a creator. What I say is to work around the mathematical improbability. So what you have to do is throw out math because that's what infinity is, right? So math is gone because we have this number that goes on forever. So you're nodding. Yeah. So infinity is not on the real number. Like that was my best shot at brilliance. Yeah. No, infinity is not on. I'm looking for affirmation. You guys were always very clear about boundaries and expectations. Thinking back, initial conversations, I remember being like, you guys would always say, you're allowed to have a Valentine, and so I think I always had a Valentine every year, on top of you being my Valentine. So, well you were very social, much more social than your siblings. Yeah, I was a little extroverted out there. Not anymore. Adulthood has made me, just every year I feel like I'm more of a shut-in, but it's okay. No, I feel like you guys made very good boundaries and expectations. I think my favorite conversations were it was never well, not that you didn't say this but You saying this wasn't the main point was like I made mistakes and now I don't want you to make them That was a part of the conversation but I feel like the heart of it every time you guys would share and mostly you would be just that every every heartbreak leaves baggage every time and so why would you not like you can fully date fully go out there fully figure it out have the least amount of hurt and heartbreak and bad experiences and I feel like that didn't click for me until high school until said boy yeah made me have a hard year like I feel like that I just would have taken you seriously so much of being little and young just felt like your parents don't know anything. And yeah, like I said, every year into adulthood it's been like, wow, they were so right. And they still are. And what I would say, this is to Arlena, is I was trying to spare my children the heartbreak of those early romances. And so, I remember vividly my first girlfriend, like, oh my gosh, all the feels, all this is incredible. My first kiss, and then 10 days later she's done. And I'm like, I've already jumped off the cliff. Like I'm like, oh, but I'm falling alone. And so, and that happened multiple times. And I think it jaded my heart towards women because I was that kid that was like your brother, all in. You know. Falls off a cliff every other day. Yeah, falls off a cliff, you know, all in. And so I just tried to spare you from that. And then I, when I was 18 and I started dating seriously, you know, I didn't make it until I got married to have sex. And I told you guys, I feel like that was one of the greatest failures of my life. And I wanted to give you the best opportunity to experience sex within the context of marriage. Ultimately, I knew that would be your choice, but I feel like I wish I would have listened. And so I talked to you guys about, and your mom and I talked to you guys about our failures and our mistakes and our hopes and dreams for you. But ultimately it doesn't matter what we hope or dream. It's about you and what you desire and your choices. And so I think early on you have to manage that very closely and then you have to start to release. And I remember you graduated from college. I'm like, Maddie, we need to be dating. And you were like, so we, it flipped, like it flipped. It went from me being this linebacker protecting you to I'm like, you know what girl, you got to put the vibe out. Yeah. Have you heard of this guy? He seems nice. You should reach out to him. Yeah. No, I was like your agent, man. I was like, hey. Yeah. So because I thought you were beautiful and amazing and incredible and ultimately, right, God was working in your life and ultimately brought Logan into our lives, which we love. But I thought that that was something that was really important. You know, your sister was a little different because she was so introverted. She was a little easier because you were very social. You know, so each kid is different. But just be clear, and what I would say as parents is be as honest as you can and open as you can so that your kids always know, I may not agree with mom and dad, but they're the most honest with me. And they're the most real with me. And I tried to explain to you guys why I disagreed with what your other friends' parents were doing. And here's the thing that I learned is most parents are cowards. And so like you would wanna go do something and all 10 of your friends are going. And I'm like, no. And you, and then I would have three parents call me, oh, thank you so much for saying no. I wasn't comfortable with this. I was like, are you kidding me? Parents give into peer pressure. I'm like, that's stupid. And so I would never allow you to spend the night with a girlfriend if they had an older brother. I was like, there's no way! Because many of the things that happened to me when I was exposed to porn, when I saw things I shouldn't have seen, it was never my friends my age. It was always their older siblings that were doing things that they shouldn't have done. And that's what got me into trouble and really pushed me into an area, you know, where I remember being at my friend's house and they were going to put a movie on and I'm like, oh I'm just sitting there and all sudden It's naked people and I'm like, yeah, you know, I just wasn't ready for that. And here's the sad thing I wasn't even interested but I would now I'm exposed and so and that was older siblings So I really challenged you guys on that and and and and parents are probably a little too paranoid now But have conversation with parents. Here's the expectations that we have And and so I made lots of mistakes. Thanks for listening to the Debrief podcast with Matt Brown. If you enjoyed this episode, consider liking, subscribing, and sharing it with a friend. If you'd like to submit a question to Pastor Matt, you can do so at move.sc.ask. And if you would like to support the work we are doing, consider donating at donate.sc. Thank you again and have a blessed day. donating at donate.sc. Thank you again and have a blessed day. as well as on YouTube. You can also give to Sandals Church at any time by going to donate.sc. Thanks for being a part of this place. Thanks for being a part of this place. We hope you have a great summer.