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We’re excited to announce the launch of “Voices from the Hill” a podcast dedicated to showcasing the incredible talent right here in our literary backyard. As a proud member of this vibrant community, Telegraph Hill Arts & Literature believes our local authors deserve a platform to share not just their published works, but the stories behind them.
If you’re a Bay Area author interested in being on the show, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us at submissions@telhilit.org.
Welcome to Voices from the Hill, celebrating the vibrant literary voices of the San Francisco Bay Area. I'm your host, Jennifer Barone, along with Joseph Carboni, owner of Telegraph Hill Books. Each episode, we sit down with a local author to explore their creative process, inspirations, and the unique stories that shape our community. Today, we are joined by Kerry Donoghue, poet, writer, and author of the short story collection Mouth from Unsolicited Press that explores the many forms of consumption, not just food or drink, but emotional, relational, and existential hunger. Kerry's work blurs the line between poetry and confession, exploring the raw edges of motherhood, desire, and womanhood with unflinching honesty and wit.
Jennifer Barone:Her writing captures both the beauty and the mess of being human. And we're so excited to dive into her creative process today, her inspirations, and what she's exploring in her latest work. So let's jump in. Kerry Donoghue, welcome to Voices from the Hill.
Kerry Donoghue:Thank you so much.
Jennifer Barone:We're so excited to have you here. I got a chance to first hear Kerry read at the recent Petaluma Poetry Walk, and she just blew everyone away. She had me crying. She had the whole room crying. And I yeah.
Jennifer Barone:I was I had also read the synopsis for Mouth, and I was like, what an amazing topic for a book. And I I love this topic so much. As a person who also writes about, like, food, I'm I'm hungry. I know I am. I was like, what a great like, but it's an existential hunger.
Jennifer Barone:Right? It's not, like, just the physical we're talking about in your work. I think the mental, the emotional, the spiritual too. So what's the passage that you've chosen to read for us today and let us know why it holds special meaning for you.
Kerry Donoghue:Okay. So, I'm gonna actually read the ending of the book and the end story is called Jenny. And, just so you know what's happening here, Jenny is the main character. She really wants to live as a mermaid and she's been doing it secretly and now she's gonna have her big moment. Her best friend Laurel, she's in love with her.
Kerry Donoghue:Laurel doesn't know this. And then there's also one more character, Jenny. I'm sorry. Nora is the main character. Jenny is, Jenny Hanover, which is a dried stingray that sailors used to bring home.
Kerry Donoghue:So it's like fashioned like a seductive woman. So they're all three of them are here. Okay. The next morning, packed and prepped, I head outside to sit atop the hose caddy and take in the sunrise. My birthday, the future, together now.
Kerry Donoghue:It's here, Jenny says. I can't believe it. Try. A sense of peace washes over me and I sleep the day away. At 04:00 that afternoon, I meet Laurel two blocks from the beach just like we planned, except I've also got hair extensions in and I'm pulling a suitcase behind me.
Kerry Donoghue:Draped across my arm is a garment bag. Happy birthday. Jesus, what'd you bring? She asks. A surprise, I say.
Kerry Donoghue:I wanted to show you something. Very mysterious, but I'll follow you. We walk. Though the water isn't in sight yet, it's in the air, a salty lightness that slowly slips past my lips. The closer we get, the more sand blows across the sidewalk, stinging my shins.
Kerry Donoghue:Then, when I think my knees will buckle with anticipation, it's right in front of us, wide and welcoming, the sand, divoted with thousands of footsteps. Beyond that, sunlight chips the waves, pelicans dive bombing. I steady myself with the sidewalk handrail. I'm gonna change, I whisper. Laurel points to the restrooms.
Kerry Donoghue:Bathroom's there. I'll be here. Inside the damp cinder block bathroom, I fill my lungs with three deep land breaths, each one gritty with the scent of salt and urine. Brackish. This bathroom must be what brackish smells like, I think, smiling.
Kerry Donoghue:I enter a stall and get to work, snapping, taping, glittering. In twenty minutes, I'm reborn. Happy birthday, Jenny's beaming. I am too. When I come out, I don't even pause at the mottled mirror above the sink.
Kerry Donoghue:I don't need to. I shuffle along with bound steps, my feet giddy with the prospect of their new role. I pass the outdoor showering area and head straight to the volleyball nets where Laurel's stretching her quads. She gapes. Tail, clamshells, me.
Kerry Donoghue:What's all this? Behind her, the indigo hour that's always felt like coming home. I inhale. You inspired me. Laurel's eyes move up and down my body.
Kerry Donoghue:What do you think? I ask. Overhead, gulls squawk just like my seashore sleep enhancers. I feel calmer, stronger. Laurel circles me.
Kerry Donoghue:Can I touch it? Please. She kneels down and I shake as she fans her fingers around the sequin swirls, studying the patterns, the metallic thread a fantastic find in the clearance bins at the fabric store. In her hand, the iridescence flashes. You look beautiful.
Kerry Donoghue:The three of us shuffle across the cool sand, me barefoot and wondrous, Laurel struggling in her boots, Jenny peeking out from my suitcase. Laurel's right. At this time of day, there are only a few people out, jogging after work or walking their dogs. We wait for them to pass us, and once they do, I'm already standing on damp sand with a lurch behind my ribs. My hands move to my chest, trying to keep it all in.
Kerry Donoghue:Here's your dream, Kansas, Laurel says, grinning. What do you think? I could just sing. So I do, the lilt spouting up from my throat from deep in my chest as if it too has been simply waiting for this moment, as if I need it to breathe. It's better than I ever imagined.
Kerry Donoghue:I open my suitcase and pull Jenny out, resting her on the suitcase facing the sea. Oh, wow. You brought her, Laurel says. Home, Jenny answers. I step farther out and gently lower myself to the sand.
Kerry Donoghue:It's soft and smooth, making it easy to crawl into the ocean. Foam swells against my breastbone, the saltwater stinging my cheeks. Feels good, right? Laurel calls. It's perfect.
Kerry Donoghue:Every word now flowing, a song. Though my movements are stilted because of the binding, I feel lighter than normal. Pushing myself from the sand, I roll onto my hip and marvel at my tail's cerulean brilliance under the last smolder of sunset. I stretch into the water and then flick my tail. Oh, such a cool photo.
Kerry Donoghue:Don't move. Laurel holds up her phone trying to get a shot. But since I'm this low in the waves, I'm at their mercy as they crest over me, each swell larger than the previous one. Sky deepens into sea. Some people are afraid of water, the way they're afraid of shadows, the darkness, the shifting, the clutching undertow.
Kerry Donoghue:But that's not being afraid of water. That's being afraid of yourself, the unknown, what you won't emit in the dark, what you 'll do when your dream crests. Nora, Laurel shouts. She's knee deep in the waves, arms beckoning me back, but the call is too loud. The waves are lifting me, welcoming me, pulling me farther.
Kerry Donoghue:Be free, Jenny whispers. Whispers. With each splash, my ears dip lower into that muted world. Laurel can't swim, so she screams from the shore, her voice winging with the thermals. Gleaming.
Kerry Donoghue:I'm gleaming. Maybe it wasn't Laurel or Jenny. Maybe it was always me. I stretch my arms wide. A Jenny unfurled home.
Jennifer Barone:Oh my goodness. I can't tell you how much that speaks to me. I'm a mermaid. Like, that's my fantasy dream. Really?
Jennifer Barone:I've always since I was a little girl. Like, I was just thinking as you're reading that, like, where you got that idea to write that story because, like, there's been this upswell of mermaid culture. I don't know if you've seen it. Like, there's been document. It's been amazing to and I'm like, I didn't even realize that this exists like in The United States and like, I wanna join.
Jennifer Barone:I don't care how old I am.
Kerry Donoghue:I want a monofin. You should read that. You can make one.
Jennifer Barone:What gave you the inspiration to write like about some of these characters? Because this book of short stories is like different characters like with different aspects of consumption and aspects of hunger. Right? Of the existential type. What inspired you for some of these characters in Mouth?
Kerry Donoghue:I think, you know, I grew up in an Irish Catholic family and there was an alcoholism in the family and so there was a lot of like secrets and I felt like a lot of time I couldn't be who I wanted to be or I had to be a certain way. And so I'm very drawn to characters that no matter what they want to be, they do it. And for her, I felt like that's like one of the most freeing things. Like, she's dangerous but she's free but it's it's a woman. Like, the whole combination of like Mhmm.
Kerry Donoghue:Independence and self sufficiency was really attractive to me and that's why I ended the collection on her because to me she's like, she gets her dream. Mhmm. No matter how strange that dream may feel and that's something I really I admire and I also struggle with. Are we able to get our dreams? Like, what happens if you do get it?
Kerry Donoghue:And what if you do get it? What if it's not what you thought it would be? Mhmm.
Jennifer Barone:That seems pretty common that people get to that realization point and then they get depressed or they get like disappointed because it was so built up Mhmm. Like their whole life, this desire. Yeah. I think maybe that's part. So it sounds like in a lot of these stories that you're getting into the underlying subconscious realm Mhmm.
Jennifer Barone:Of some of these characters. Can you speak a little bit about that?
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah. This might be kind of like a wild connection. So when I was younger, I grew up in the suburbs of LA And it was like the eighties and nineties and there were a lot of earthquakes and like serial killers and just like weird And things going so, we would hang out at the mall because that was like a safe place for us to be. And I didn't realize how much of my life I had spent at the mall until I was putting this collection together but like, we would go my grandma would exercise there and I learned to drive there and I had my first kiss there and like I was literally working there until I was like 25. So to just to to get into that idea of like what people consume, like I spent a lot of time watching people, what they ate, what they wore Mhmm.
Kerry Donoghue:And like wondering like what does that mean? If you're wearing a label, like a fancy shirt, what do you want me to think about that? And I was very curious about that tension between what we portray and what's hidden. And I feel like a lot of that comes into like It's kind of revealed by what we consume. So, it's just kind of a maybe like an eighties rooted cycle that I can't shake but it's it's fascinating to me.
Kerry Donoghue:I'm still like obsessed with it.
Jennifer Barone:Is there some aspect of that that plays out in your personal life too or just mainly in how you perceive others?
Kerry Donoghue:That's a great question. I do find it really interesting, especially in an American society because we do have so much waste. We do have so much everything's so in your face compared to other places. And so I'm very curious about what that says about our culture and what we're doing for the future. Mhmm.
Kerry Donoghue:Especially now I have kids, so I'm kinda trying to teach them like, do you need that water bottle? Like, do you need that fancy whatever, you know? And trying to to teach to them the difference between need and want. Mhmm.
Jennifer Barone:Go I feel like the mall environment, because I had a little bit of that growing up in New York City, but like, it there is a detachment from like the natural world. Right? And I loved the story of the the mermaid going to the sea and it feels that was also jumping out to me as an aspect of that story of, like, a contrast Mhmm. Between, like, the natural world manufactured industrial like, you know, marketing driven world that feels a little fake or detached reality. Is there an aspect that of that that that contrast that plays out in your writing?
Kerry Donoghue:Yes. I feel especially in terms of women and like the boxes we're in, at least for me when I was growing up, I felt very much like I was supposed to be one way, you're supposed to be a good girl, you're not supposed to do that, you know. And it all tied into like how you looked and how you acted and what your appearance was. And so I like to put them in those artificial boxes and then kinda see what they're gonna do. And like she This character, Nora, she lives by the ocean and she just hadn't gone because she was so scared to like finally do it, to finally get her dream.
Kerry Donoghue:So, I guess that's another tension between like the manufactured and the natural and like where we're going with that as a society but also women.
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. How does the role of being a female writer which is already challenging. Right? We're we're considered sort of still a marginalized group a lot of the times. But also, you know, being a mother like play out in your writing.
Jennifer Barone:Those are there's a lot there in both of those two roles.
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah. The motherhood thing I think comes up a lot in there because I wrote most of these stories before I had kids. Mhmm. And then I edited them after I had kids.
Jennifer Barone:Is it a different mindset?
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah. I was so Oh, these fellows. Yeah. Like this one, my first
Speaker 3:story,
Kerry Donoghue:I wrote it when I was 26 and I was like, I don't want kids, I'm fine, whatever. And then I was looking at it when I was like 40 and then I was like, oh, like I get what was missing this whole time and only because for me personally because I had a kid that I understand what she was getting at but I couldn't understand it because I hadn't lived that aspect before.
Jennifer Barone:Mhmm.
Kerry Donoghue:So that kinda blew my mind. And so just that idea of do we have kids? Do we not have kids? What's our choices? You know?
Kerry Donoghue:And like, what are our limitations too? And I find that very interesting because it is so many times so out of our control.
Jennifer Barone:Well, I feel I feel like I was really moved and really touched when you were sharing some of your poetry that was about the process of motherhood. Mhmm. It would felt very raw Mhmm. And almost, like, intimate and we were being brought into your personal world. Like, how do you balance your what to say?
Jennifer Barone:You know? What do you keep private in your work versus like what do you share in terms of being able to really be truthful, honest, fearless, and connect to people?
Kerry Donoghue:I am not sure I'm good at that. I tend to just let it rip no matter what, whether it's good or bad, and I'm trying to find the balance of that because there is like a lot of access there, you know. But I do think like if I am writing to try to connect with someone, I have to be honest. And that poem that you're talking about, that was the worst time of my life and so I just was like, this poem is for me, I have to write it exactly how it happened. Mhmm.
Kerry Donoghue:And that's like the one time I've written something that wasn't for anyone else. And so, it's interesting to me to see how people react because it was just so private. And I actually promised myself I would never read that poem. It was about an abortion basically. Basically.
Kerry Donoghue:And it was it was surprising to me after that I read that how many people came up to me and like we cried together. Like, I could not believe that and that was many years ago, you know? So, that kind of stuff resonates and I feel like especially now like we need that connection as women. So I'm not going to mince words or hide things because that's not gonna help anything.
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. How do you face that fear of basically exposing, you know, what's really raw and really personal in your life when you go to share your work?
Kerry Donoghue:I think I just have to pretend no one's there or that no one or maybe just one person's gonna read it. And even if one person did read it and they were like, yes, then that would make me feel like I did it. Like I did I wrote it right. Mhmm. You know what I mean?
Jennifer Barone:Mhmm. I
Kerry Donoghue:I I just I just have to pretend like it's like a blinder, I guess. I'm trying to get better at it too in terms of like reading and like just being exposed is so uncomfortable for me. Mhmm. But it's part of the part of the deal. So working on it.
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah.
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. It is. I sometimes I feel like you never know, right, how your work is gonna touch somebody. And so there there does feel like there's an importance to share our truth. Are there things that you feel as a woman writer to you, like, that are kinda still off limits, still a little taboo, still, like, places where, you know, women really need to, like, get into those spaces and branch out?
Kerry Donoghue:I am all for just pouring it all out. So in my collection, I pushed myself to write about really uncomfortable things. Like there is a sexual predator that one of the stories is about and it was really important to me to include that from the perspective of the man because, first of all, I wanted to kill him so bad. Like, I just wanted to kill him dead, but I couldn't because I wanted to let this speak. Like, do we care about it now that it's from a man's perspective or do we care about it from the victim's perspective?
Kerry Donoghue:And so I wanted to mess around with that tension and see how people reacted to that because it is something that no one ever talks about and there's no, even now, even in the news, do we just pretend that's not happening? Mhmm. You know? So, I
Jennifer Barone:do think
Kerry Donoghue:there's it's important to just lay it all out.
Jennifer Barone:It's interesting that you mentioned too growing up in the mall culture and that there used to be these sort of serial killers. For women and children specifically, this was always terrifying. Yes. And we're hypervigilant probably as adults because of this Totally. Environment that we grew up.
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. And I don't think many people get to that perspective. We often see, like, movies about these characters and they're sort of semi glorified, which is also horrifying for all of us. But yeah. I mean, are there still, I wanna say, aspects of your childhood, like your upbringing that you're still diving into?
Jennifer Barone:Do you feel like it's this rich what even if there's dark things in it, this rich, like, sort of play land to pull from still in your writing.
Kerry Donoghue:Yes. Absolutely. And I love that you brought that up because So basically, was the Night Stalker that was like a big deal for us and he came to our town and I remember he had killed a woman that was like blocks away from us but still nobody knew where it was. And so I remember my dad keeping us all in the living room and he's like, we're gonna sleep here tonight and then I'm gonna stay up and make sure that everything's okay. And so we never talk about that as a family but I was like, do you remember that?
Kerry Donoghue:So just kind of tapping into wild stories with my brothers and such. And with the religion and the alcoholism, there's just a deep well of stuff that I didn't know affected me even now and I'm 46.
Jennifer Barone:Right.
Kerry Donoghue:So, my therapist is the best. Just to bring that stuff up with her, I think honestly therapy is one of the best ways to become a better writer.
Jennifer Barone:Well, also back in the eighties, there was such a stigma against therapy. Our parents' generation did not wanna go to therapy or resisted it. Yes. But now, these newer generations that are coming are really embracing therapy. Lives now.
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. Does that play into characters in your stories as well?
Kerry Donoghue:I think I write from the old perspective where my characters are afraid and they don't One of the hardest things that they have to do is to say what they want. And so I'm interested in that kind of growth and how somebody becomes becomes comfortable and becomes who they really are. Mhmm. Maybe because I didn't really have that as a kid, so I'm constantly working it through with my characters. But yeah, that's really interesting.
Kerry Donoghue:I haven't written any stories with characters now and I wonder how aware they would be.
Jennifer Barone:Do you think people's identities are driven by this kind of desire and hunger that's underneath the surface.
Kerry Donoghue:I do. I do think that is we've got these secret hungers and it's driving us and nobody talks about them and we're all just in the world trying to survive with these secret wants. Mhmm. And I just find that so vulnerable and interesting. Like, what do you want?
Kerry Donoghue:What are you doing?
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. I mean, what do you think we're really hungry for in general as humans right now, beneath the surface?
Kerry Donoghue:I wonder if it's like a true connection. Like to be seen for who we really are. Like not like a social media scene, but finding a community. I think that's been something that seems like we really need to do more of, like a real in person community, especially post COVID. I feel like we're not quite healed from COVID and all the insulation that we had.
Kerry Donoghue:So I think I'd be very curious to see how we kind of change as a society over these next maybe like ten years and kind of deal with that collective trauma.
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. That does seem to be like a a really big theme. I feel like loneliness might also be like some kind of theme that's going through some of these like stories For that you have in your book. Like what what role does loneliness play perspective about shaping someone's desire or hunger?
Kerry Donoghue:I think it's a huge driving point because it's self imposed. Like, these characters want something so bad that they can't get there or they can't get over themselves to get it. Mhmm. You know, I've had the same issue and stuff and it's interesting to me to see how people handle that. Like, do we just keep that secret?
Kerry Donoghue:Do we, you know, show up and connect and embarrass ourselves? Like, how do we how do we get there? And if I wanted to see each of the different paths that they took to get there. And if they can't get there Mhmm. Then how do we live with that, you know?
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. Well, how do you find, like, community? Like, especially being a writer sometimes, I find, like, writing can be a very solitary or isolating activity, like going into your own psychology or your own imagination. But how do you find community?
Kerry Donoghue:I mean, I think San Francisco's pretty incredible town for a literary connection and I love to just go to like Litquake or like I did my MFA at USF and so I still have friends that are from that program and, like, we meet still, like, once a year at least, if not more, and they're wonderful. And just trying to push myself into, like, you know, conferences or, like, AWP, like, just being out with other writers Mhmm. Is pretty pretty rejuvenating and, like, there's nothing like a room full of writers. Yeah. Good and bad.
Jennifer Barone:Do you ever get together and write with other writers?
Kerry Donoghue:I don't. Do you? Sometimes. Really? Yeah.
Kerry Donoghue:I try. How does it feel?
Jennifer Barone:It feels energizing because, like, sometimes it's just about the sitting and the doing. Yeah. And I love being next to somebody, like, really going for it on their computer or writing, and it's just their energy just stokes my energy, and, yeah, it kinda goes Do from you share it after? I like sharing a little bit.
Kerry Donoghue:Okay. A little. Interesting. I think I'm such a control freak. I'm just like, I'm not sharing till it's ready.
Kerry Donoghue:And, like, it's not a great characteristic to have, but, like, that's more of my approach. Yeah.
Jennifer Barone:I know. Writers, I think, tend to be that way. We're very, like, protective of Yeah. Our work. Yeah.
Jennifer Barone:Well, there's this underlying, I think, between your stories and even that, there's this underlying theme of vulnerability and exposure. Being vulnerable, that just plays out maybe through both. Do you have special writing rituals or what is your writing world like?
Kerry Donoghue:That's so interesting. We were just talking about this with some friends of mine. My writing routine is chaos. So, I have two kids and I also just got diagnosed diagnosed with with ADHD. ADHD.
Kerry Donoghue:Oh, wow. So there's a lot going on in my head all the time. So for me, having the calmness is really the most important thing. So a lot of times I will have music on, also depending on what I'm writing to kind of set the mood. And I like to walk on the beach.
Kerry Donoghue:I'm in Pacifica, I like to walk right there before my day starts. So, I can just kinda get centered. And then I just try to get it in where I can. Usually, it's like on the couch at 10:00 at night just trying to knock it out after everyone's in bed, you know? So, I am a night owl in that sense.
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah, I wish it were more refined. But it's me in the couch and 10:00 and some chocolate.
Jennifer Barone:Did getting that diagnosis give you better perspective on some of your habits and how you could work better?
Kerry Donoghue:It's pretty new so I'm still learning how to work better and now I'm on medication which I've been very curious to see how it's gonna affect my creativity. Okay, interesting. Yeah. So I think part of it is like I think the hyper fixation of ADHD helped me with this writing and knocking it out and not giving up on it. But I would also feel like I don't live the most balanced life in that sense.
Kerry Donoghue:Mhmm. Like, it's very easy for me to just think about that all the time and then when I have to think about dinner or my kid needs help with homework or my brain's just kinda like, So, I'm gonna see how this path goes but it was a huge relief to get it.
Jennifer Barone:How does being a mother like play into your writing life? Because I know like some friends I have who have kids know, they're always just like striving to find that space or carve out that space or they have to create like certain habits or rituals that give them that space in their life. But there's also a plethora of other experiences that come with being a mother that can play into your perspectives, right? But how does that show up in your life and your work?
Kerry Donoghue:You know, it's funny, I didn't wanna be a mom because I was so worried that motherhood would ruin my creativity. And I didn't My first kid I had at 35 and then I had another kiddo at 40. So I was kind of like, okay, I feel more set in my career, my book is kind of set and I couldn't believe it. Motherhood actually, I think, opened me up emotionally in ways that I couldn't access without that. I think because of the the physicality of birth and kids throwing up on you and all the things that are physically happening, all the changes happening to you all the time, it was really freeing to me emotionally.
Kerry Donoghue:And so, you know, I didn't wanna lose that part of me when I became a mom. It was very important to me and it's very important to me that my kids see me do this. You know what I mean? So, I have like a full time job but like they came to my read, my book launch and stuff and it was like huge. Like, couldn't believe my kids were there, you know, and I had to change what I read, but like It was was for me, motherhood blew it all open.
Jennifer Barone:Wow.
Kerry Donoghue:And I don't know if that's the case, but it was it was something I did not expect.
Jennifer Barone:I have heard from some friends of sometimes like you have to be really organized to be a mom and it's like that. All the things that you have be doing. It's like you become hyper productive. Yeah. I mean, I'm like,
Kerry Donoghue:if I have ten minutes, yeah, I'm gonna knock something out, you know?
Jennifer Barone:But it's kinda counterintuitive to what, like, people, like, fear about being a mother and being a writer is so interesting to me.
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah. I think it like forces you into routines. I'm not a very good at routines. So, that's something I Do
Jennifer Barone:you like the chaos? Like, does the chaotic environment like sort of like actually support you in some way?
Kerry Donoghue:No. No, it doesn't. Oh.
Jennifer Barone:I hate the chaos.
Kerry Donoghue:I hate it so much and these pills have been amazing. No. It's a lot, you know? And, like, I have to fight for my writing time, which I am happy to do. But to balance like all the things in my head all the time, it's it's too much.
Kerry Donoghue:Mhmm. So, I'm trying to trying to get better about it,
Jennifer Barone:but it's gonna be a
Kerry Donoghue:long journey,
Jennifer Barone:I think. Yeah. So, you need a little bit of the structure. Yeah. Well, let's go into a little bit around the poets and writers selection that you were selected for two twenty twenty five poets and writers get the word out publicity incubator for this book, Mouth, your book of short stories.
Jennifer Barone:What was that experience like? Was that supportive in a huge way for releasing this book? And, you know, what were what were your learnings from it? And I'm wondering too if there's, like, anything you can share for some of the up and coming writers.
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah. I mean, that was truly, truly wonderful. My book came out with unsolicited press and they're a very small publisher in Portland. And I don't have an agent and I don't have a publicist, so everything that I am doing, I'm doing myself. And so being in that, the cohort was just incredible because I got to see First of all, I got to get ideas about how to better present and, like, publicize myself, which was invaluable.
Kerry Donoghue:And then I also got to see the other writers and how they handled it. And they were all with with small presses, but it seems like some of them had, like, publicity teams and stuff. Mhmm. So it was really interesting to see their journey with that support. So I can't say enough good things about it.
Kerry Donoghue:It was truly wonderful. It was a huge help, a huge boon into getting my book in the eyes of other people.
Jennifer Barone:Yeah.
Kerry Donoghue:So That sounds amazing. I would suggest everyone apply for it if you're a writer.
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. If you had like one nugget that you could pull out for some of the up and coming writers that you learned from that, what would you say? You know To do to promote yourself.
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah. It was interesting because my book I started the program in January and my book came out at that same time, so I was the first one to go in my program. And I was so anxious and truly, I think my anxiety could have ruined the experience and the person that we were working with was really good about making sure that we would stay grounded through this whole crazy journey of publication. And I think listening to them and hearing what they had to say about your publication day and staying grounded. It's just the first day of your journey, you know, it's not like the be all end all and, you know, not getting stuck inside your head and just like letting yourself feel what you're gonna feel but also knowing this could be a really long journey.
Kerry Donoghue:So that was very, very grounding and it really helped me not ruin it for myself, you know, because I feel like I could've. Just like worrying about everything and like trying to do everything and, you know, It could have been too much, but I kept coming back to the group and we still all talk and everything. So, I'm grateful for them and just the sanity of them.
Jennifer Barone:What an awesome support system. Yeah. That was amazing. Did you have to work with an editor too on this book?
Kerry Donoghue:I don't think so. Didn't really get many edits back, which Yeah. I was worried
Jennifer Barone:It is a big fear a lot of the times that somebody might change your work.
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah. And, I used to work as an editor, so I felt comfortable doing it myself too, but I did want just another opinion, but I didn't get too much feedback back.
Jennifer Barone:It's so good to have those support systems. Yeah. Well, I also loved hearing your poetry and I'd love for you to share if you would
Kerry Donoghue:Yes. Absolutely. Both. Yes. So, this one has not been published and you've heard a version of it.
Kerry Donoghue:I keep changing the ending. So, we'll see what you think of this ending.
Jennifer Barone:Let's see.
Kerry Donoghue:But this one is called Somehow. Your feet have always been my favorite part of you. Such impossibly small things when paired with the sky stretched hope that they'll move you across this wide, wild world, safe and steady when I no longer carry you. Toes you stuck in your mouth more than a few times up your nose, toes that propelled your funny first wobble across the apartment into our open arms, silly donut socks, sparkly red sandals, soles I could hold in the palm of my hand until somehow, too soon, you needed real shoes with a lesson in how to tie them. An impossible task, really.
Kerry Donoghue:Bunny ears, loops, how does anyone teach this? But we find a way because that's our job. And then one day you come home from school, first grade with a proper backpack now, jangling with your treasured trinkets and wide eyed you whisper to me that you had to do a drill where you learn to hide in case a bad person comes to your school and tries to hurt you. My breath catches as I choke down my greatest fear while your terror struck face forces me to envision 24 pairs of little sneakers crawling across the linoleum, dodging Spider Man backpacks, unicorn sweatshirts, trembling hands shoving their screams back into their mouths, trying so hard to stay quiet, the scariest game of hide and seek you'll ever play. Then you whisper to me that the best place to hide is on top of a toilet seat with a stall door locked so the bad person can't see your feet.
Kerry Donoghue:You are seven years old and I have to explain why someone would ever want to hurt you. Protecting you is my job, but how can I admit that when you go to school, you aren't mine anymore? That you're not safe. You're not. That school budgets get cut with the same fervor that billionaires get protected.
Kerry Donoghue:That there are only four school counselors for five schools worth of kids, and your underpaid teacher, a kind, tired person I have only met a handful of times, will be the one doing anything they can to protect you from everything we think, hope, pray will happen somewhere else. Why are the only ones who understand this crouched inside a bathroom stall, little toes gripping for dear short life because the adults who could stop this won't. Some nights when the house is quiet and my thoughts are too loud, I catch myself staring at your light up rain boots where you kick them off in the living room, a thoughtless moment, that promise of later. And I can't, but, of course, I do every morning as you run to class and I wave goodbye from the gate, praying you'll be fast enough when it counts. So to the chambers packed with comfortable leather loafers, you cowards of quiet, how many little pairs of shoes will it take for you to do your job?
Kerry Donoghue:Or will you continue crouching, bowing down to a gilded god, palm out, wallet full, proud of a legacy that leads back to your useless, unmoving lips?
Jennifer Barone:There's so much sort of wanna say, like, one of the things that I think most writers or maybe women writers too is this how do we attack or how do we explore the concept of sort of anger that we have Mhmm. About some of these issues, about just how we've had to move through Yeah. Your 40 years of life. It's yeah. I mean, it's really, as humans and also as writers a challenging thing.
Jennifer Barone:How do we express anger? How do we deal with that, grapple with that?
Kerry Donoghue:I think you just do what feels best to you and if you can put it into some kind of a form that feels true to you but also makes sense to someone else Mhmm. That's pretty powerful. Mhmm. I don't like the idea of limitation or self editing, you know? I wanna hear how it feels for you.
Kerry Donoghue:I'm interested in that. I don't want the sweet condensed version. I wanna hear your raw pain because that's what connects us as people. Especially with everything going on right now.
Jennifer Barone:What's the difference for you, like, between exploring some of these issues in a short story or a different format as opposed to poetry?
Kerry Donoghue:That's that's a great question. So for me, poetry is like a diary. Mhmm. When I was younger, I was terrified that my brothers would read my diary. So, I would write Did you have a lock?
Speaker 3:I did have a lock with,
Jennifer Barone:you know, they had tools. Oh, no.
Kerry Donoghue:Did they get
Jennifer Barone:them? I
Speaker 3:don't know.
Kerry Donoghue:I have no idea. But, I would write it in like these coded kind of like poems. It was like my first attempt at poetry, I see now. So, when I do write like It's very easy for me to hide in fiction but when I cannot hide something, I will put it in a poem.
Jennifer Barone:Interesting.
Kerry Donoghue:And so, that's why it's always so hard for me to read these poems because they are so personal in a in a way that I can't pretend.
Jennifer Barone:You know what Was I poetry your entry point into writing? What was your first like
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah. When I applied to my MFA program, I was like, I'm a poet. And then they were like, no, you're not. You know
Jennifer Barone:what they say, no. They
Kerry Donoghue:didn't say it explicitly, but it was a vibe. Right? And it was more like, oh, like, I felt more I felt more free in fiction. Okay. But I do keep coming back to poetry in a way that I don't know.
Kerry Donoghue:It's kind of like a grounding thing. You know what
Jennifer Barone:I mean? The minute somebody tells me not to do something I wanna
Speaker 3:do Yep.
Jennifer Barone:I'm a little bit rebellious. But you're a beautiful poet. Oh, thank you. I I I can see that maybe poetry, yeah, is this liberating platform for you to go into the personal. Yeah.
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah. And I like the short, you know, I like short fiction and I like poetry both because you it is so brief and you have to make it count. Yeah. But, yeah, poetry is like even more so.
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. So you've got a new novel that you're working on that's coming out next year.
Kerry Donoghue:No. No. I don't have a novel. Oh, sorry. I mean, I have a novel that I'm working on but it's not coming out yet.
Kerry Donoghue:A hot mess in my computer.
Jennifer Barone:So, you can or cannot talk about it.
Speaker 3:I can talk about it. Yeah.
Jennifer Barone:Yeah. Tell us a little bit about what's inspiring you for your next work.
Kerry Donoghue:So, I guess I have maybe the first draft done. But it is a dual perspective novel that takes place in San Francisco in the, I think, like, twenty ten ish. And, there are it's a mother and daughter and the mother is an end of life alcoholic and she is unhoused. And the daughter is, like a successful marketing person and she's kind of secretly drinking mouthwash as well. And so, it's the back and forth about addiction and how we treat each other.
Kerry Donoghue:The mother ends up this goes in a fictional wet house. I don't know if you're familiar with that. So a wet house is basically where it's a safe place where end of life alcoholics can drink safely. They can have an address, they can have a room, they can basically be safe while they drink and it saves money for the city and such. There's one in Seattle but there has been talk about one coming to San Francisco.
Kerry Donoghue:So, so the mother lives in this wet house and are just It's that tension between a mother and a daughter and what happens when you have the mother that maybe you don't need that doesn't work for you? Like it's not What is that relationship when you guys aren't like the best? Mhmm. Maybe not the right mom for you. And like how can you really know someone in terms of addiction and how do we connect and grief.
Kerry Donoghue:Wow. Super So depressing. There's a lot
Jennifer Barone:of deaths in there though.
Kerry Donoghue:Yeah. And so it's been it's been really nice to to work on. I started it in the city and it was when we lived in the city and I just couldn't couldn't get it right. And I think I had to physically leave the city to start getting it right. And so, even though I'm just like in Pacifica fifteen minutes away, it's been a huge boon.
Kerry Donoghue:So to have that distance from the city, it's been huge.
Jennifer Barone:That's amazing. That sounds really juicy and really good and really on topic for a lot of things that people are going through right now. Yeah. I feel like COVID brought out a lot of this unconscious subconscious world for people. So sounds amazing.
Jennifer Barone:Well, I love to end our podcast on your work. I mean, it spans so many different layers of depth. But whether it's your poetry or short stories or this new work coming out that you're working on, but what is it that you're feeling lately that you really wanna leave your readers with?
Kerry Donoghue:I was talking to someone about this recently and it's it's kind of just like that feeling of yes. Like for me as a reader, when I read something and I'm like, yes, that's exactly how it is. That's exactly how it feels. That is my favorite part of reading. So as a writer, if I can connect with someone on that specific level, like that's it for me.
Kerry Donoghue:Then I would feel like it was a win.
Jennifer Barone:Excellent. That inspires me so much and so do you, Kerry. I just wanna thank you so much for coming out here from Pacifica and sharing your book Mouth with us, your process, your perspective. It's just been such a pleasure to get to know you better.
Kerry Donoghue:Thank you.
Jennifer Barone:Thank you, Kerry. Yeah. For listeners who would like to learn more about Kerry Donoghue and her work, you can visit kerrydonoghue.com or find her on Instagram at Kerry Donoghue. And also, come and find her books at all your local independent book stores including Telegraph Hill Books. Thank you, Kerry.
Jennifer Barone:Thank you so much. This podcast is brought to you by Telegraph Hill Arts and Literature. If you enjoyed today's episode, please follow, subscribe, and leave us a review. Visit tellhighlit.org to find out about our local events such as author talks, writing workshops, and more. Consider making a donation to support our public programs.
Jennifer Barone:If you are a Bay Area author interested in being on the show, we'd love to hear from you. Reach out to us at submissions@telhiit.org. Thanks again for tuning in. I'm Jennifer Barone along with Joseph Carboni at Telegraph Hill Arts and Literature. And this has been Voices from the Hill.
Jennifer Barone:Until next time, keep reading, keep writing, stay inspired, and come visit us at Telegraph Hill Books in North Beach, San Francisco.