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Candid conversations for the church. Host is Ardin Beech of Windsor District Baptist Church, Sydney, Australia. Co-hosted by Jonathan Hoffman.
Well, here we are back again. Another episode This Week At Windsor. My name is Jonathan Hof. We are missing Arden Beach today, but I am joined by not just one guest but three. One of whom was a cohost before in a previous interview, Gwen Parkhill.
Jonathan:Good to see you, Gwen. How are you?
Gwen:So good. Nice to be back.
Jonathan:Great to have you back. We are doing a Mother's Day edition this Week At Windsor podcast. So, we're talking all things mothers, motherhood, and I'm just acknowledging up the front here. Even though I do have four children, this is not my area. Okay?
Jonathan:So, Joanna, if you're listening to this. So I I I've been acknowledging my ignorance right out the right out the gate. But it is a great privilege to to have you all here. I thought, we might just start, so people understand who's in this conversation. Maybe tell us your name.
Jonathan:Tell us, sort of where you're situated in life and, yeah, how old your kids are.
Gwen:I'm Gwen Parkhill, and I've been here a couple of times before. And I've got two kiddos. I've got an eight year old boy and a five year old girl, and we homeschool. And my kids are neurodivergent, so that adds a little something to the mix of what motherhood looks like for us.
Kathy:I am the other end of the spectrum.
Kylie:Yeah. You are. Kathy Johnson.
Kathy:I have four grown up children. I've got a 36 year old, 33 year old, and two 30 year olds. And I did check that last night. Yeah. That's a question.
Jonathan:There you go. All over 30, like
Kathy:I know. And me so young.
Jonathan:Yes. I know. Right? How did
Gwen:you manage that? Like, 25 here.
Jonathan:12 years old. And?
Kylie:I'm Kylie Faulks, and I have just over three and a half year old boy, a newly turned two year old daughter, and we have baby number three on the way in about five weeks time.
Jonathan:Wow.
Kylie:So we're in the depths. Yeah.
Jonathan:Somebody describes, you know, having a third child. It's like, imagine you're drowning. Someone throws you a baby.
Kylie:I have heard that. Yeah. I've also heard number three just fits right in.
Gwen:So we'll see how we go. Yeah.
Jonathan:Yeah. So some may have had that experience Yeah. Say that it was ours. But I know. Yeah.
Jonathan:Three was the tipping point. But so I thought I'd start, off the bat. What is something that men just don't get about being a mother? Just in your experience, this thing is really hard to translate to your spouse, to your partner. What's something we just don't get?
Kathy:I think one thing, now that I've got grandchildren so my husband comes with me when we mine the grandchildren. And, generally, on these days, he looks at me and says, I don't know how you did it. I honestly don't know how you did it. So I think in back in my day, I remember at work, you're at home with the children. And I think they don't actually get that intensity of that day to day grind to the continual demands.
Kathy:That's such down, have a cup of coffee on your own. Can't do anything on your own. I think maybe that's what they don't get maybe.
Jonathan:Mhmm. Very cool.
Gwen:That mental load as well of, like, my husband's amazing, and he does work from home, but I'm not certain he'd remember to brush their teeth every day and things like that, you know, just all these little things that I'm constantly thinking of, like, have to do this and we have to do that. I don't think it's the same in his head.
Jonathan:Does it come to you naturally? Or is it like are you like, okay. I gotta manage. Got my systems and Yeah.
Gwen:A combination of both.
Jonathan:Okay.
Gwen:But the systems are natural to me. Okay. I'm very type a.
Jonathan:Okay.
Gwen:I have my system. But then but then I'm like stressed by my system. I'm like, it's 8PM, we should be flossing teeth. We are not flossing teeth and now I'm very stressed. The system is chaos.
Gwen:Gotcha.
Kylie:I was gonna say mine would have been the mental load though.
Gwen:It's been
Kylie:booking their appointments, making sure those appointments are booked, that we're going like, managing everyone's schedules, making sure that everyone's where they need to be and that, you know, got enough time to get between the two things too. And I'm very systems organized too. Like, we have a routine and these are things need to be done. And so, yeah, I was gonna say it's the mental load, and it's even like once the kids are in bed, what other things do I need to get done? Like, load of washing on.
Kylie:I've gotta fold that washing. Gotta get that away so that when somebody else is in the house, they can find the kids washing. It's not just shoved in a basket.
Gwen:Yeah. 100%.
Jonathan:I realized some of this might be easier for some of you than others to remember. But what was the transition like from no kids to your first kid? Like, well, how would you how would you describe that that I'm looking at a lot of smiles. I don't know if that's like shared shared misery or looking at it earlier. Yeah.
Jonathan:Yeah. Yeah. What was that what was that transition like?
Kylie:I'm gonna say a lot of people have asked me how we've gone from was one zero to one or one to two hardest, and they were very different in that going from zero to one child. No. Three times not even the right word, but it's just gone from, you you know, you can slowly drink your coffee in the morning to, oh, I've gotta actually, like, after this child, I've gotta get from here. The extra time it takes to get in the car and get somewhere, it was just that extra time. But then going from one to two kids, you already know it's gonna take ages to get anywhere and to get them strapped in, making sure the nappy bag's packed, things like that.
Kylie:So I feel like the transition from zero to one wasn't like it was a shock, but it wasn't terrible. Zero to two has been more manageable, especially as I've got a little bit older because I kinda know what to expect in that everything takes forever to do.
Jonathan:So the time thing, the the the the used to kinda having time to yourself, doing things at your pace to now kind of your time's tethered to somebody else.
Kylie:Yes. I could literally just pick up my handbag and walk out the door. Yeah. Now it's have we got enough nappies in the bag? Are there shoes in the car?
Kylie:Do we have I've actually gotta strap you in. Oh, no. I need need a nappy change before I strap you back in. Things like that. It's just adding that extra layer of, you know what?
Kylie:I need to leave an extra fifteen minutes at at least to buffer myself to make sure we get somewhere in time.
Gwen:How about you, Herzra?
Kathy:Number one, we just had no idea what we were doing. We couldn't really believe the hospital had let us leave with this baby that we really were completely unqualified to look after. So So I think with one, everything you're learning and everything you're wondering, is that normal? Is am I doing that properly? Whereas I think, yeah, I think the second you kind of know what you're doing.
Kathy:And by the time we had three and four, we really the mechanics of it we knew.
Kylie:Mhmm. And then they're completely different personalities.
Kathy:Well, is yeah. That's why you don't really even know. Oh, it's very different. But the mechanics of it and the stress levels, I think, are less.
Gwen:Look, my first is autistic. So we had no and we didn't know. Kids don't come with a label, you know. So we got home. He doesn't sleep at all.
Gwen:He doesn't settle. He doesn't everything was really, really hard. And everyone who came into the situation to help us out would have advice that just didn't work or that they looked at it and go, well, my kid wasn't like that. I have no idea what's going on. So for us, it was like we thought it would look one way, it looked really different and it was a lot of trying to figure out how to make this work for us, not knowing what was going on.
Gwen:We And didn't get a diagnosis till he was six. So a lot of just trusting, I'm praying, I'm trying to figure this out, I'm listening to everybody, and I'm trying to figure out what's gonna work. But it was really tough. Like, first three months, I don't think he slept really more than an hour. Wow.
Gwen:And I was so sleep deprived and trying to figure it out. And just feeling like you're failing so much because you don't know what's going on and no one else is having the experience.
Jonathan:I'm glad you brought that up, that sense of failing. And I I wonder, can you recall the things you were worried about before Hand about being a mother? Because I remember some conversations that we had, Joanne and I had, and and hearing her say, I'm worried about this, worried about that. And I'm curious, like, can you recall the things you were worried about before the kids came? And did that change with after they changed?
Jonathan:Like, were you worried about different things? Yeah. And if so, what were they?
Gwen:That's a really good question. That's deep.
Jonathan:That's why I get paid a bit of
Kathy:Yeah.
Gwen:Know. Right? I think
Jonathan:All the sponsors know
Gwen:each other. Exactly. No. Well, you know, it's a funny one because I think on the one hand, when I was going into having a baby, I thought I'd be so good at it because I'm the oldest child and I had done tons of babysitting, then teaching, then tutoring. I had done the kid thing.
Gwen:I thought for sure this is the thing that is just gonna come naturally to me. And then I got thrown this kiddo who was so out of the box that I completely I think it just wrong footed me completely. So going into it, I think I just had this confidence and the sense of I'm gonna do it right. I know exactly how this is gonna look like. I'm gonna eat the healthy food, gonna sleep in this way, it's gonna be amazing.
Gwen:And then I had this little dude who didn't do anything that I wanted and I had no level of control over that. And it just completely was like, oh, no. I don't know everything here. I have to completely reinvent this wheel. So for me and then I think that was the warriors.
Gwen:I still wanted the same thing for him, but I had to find a whole new way to get there. Mhmm. So I don't know if it was different. It was just the the reality of it looked very different.
Jonathan:Like you got a curveball.
Gwen:Total curveball. Yeah. Absolutely.
Kylie:I was gonna say fairly similar. Like, I had a bit of an idea going in of, you know what? I can change a nappy.
Kathy:I can
Kylie:do, like, things like the basic routines of especially looking after a baby. But then it's the demand of they're there all the time. There's no reprieve. And I think it was more something that I didn't necessarily think or prepare for was the, like, the demand on me that there was no reprieve, especially like with a newborn. Yeah.
Kylie:Like this child's with me. Hi. I'm I'm feeding them. I'd like I can leave them with other people to give them a cuddle or have a sleep. But you know what?
Kylie:I've still like it back of my head. I'm still caring for this child. I'm still there and they yeah. They're with you all the time. And even when they might be having a nap or at like someone else is taking them for a walk, they're still on your mind.
Kylie:Mhmm. Like, it's the Yeah. That constant, I don't stop thinking about them. I don't stop thinking about are they meet needs being met? How like, are they okay?
Kylie:Things like that. And also, do what I need to do next for them? And so I think I had logistics of, you know what? We can we can we've got the clothes. I can manage, like, to get this stuff done.
Kylie:But the mental side of, okay, it's it's taking a lot of mental energy to be a mom.
Gwen:I 100% relate to that as well. If there there's just no pause button to find your feet a
Kylie:little bit.
Gwen:Yeah. Twenty four seven. They grow up.
Kathy:They grow up.
Gwen:Yeah. Which is why we need to talk to people like you where you're like, it will come. There are different seasons here.
Jonathan:Yeah. Sure. Do you remember what Kathy, were you worried about anything beforehand, or were you was it just like, oh, this will be great. You know? We'll we'll be fine.
Jonathan:And
Kathy:I think being responsible for another person and realizing any medical decisions, you're responsible for their day to day care. You're responsible for I think that that weighs more heavily than you maybe think it will be.
Gwen:I have a question for the ladies actually. I was pondering this. Is yourself, just before you had your first baby, if you could go back and give yourself advice, would it be?
Kylie:Your house doesn't have to be tidy. Yeah. That's good advice. We still survive.
Kathy:You're capable of more than you probably realize.
Gwen:Love that. Yeah. It's deep. That's beautiful.
Jonathan:You got twins.
Kathy:My god. Twins.
Jonathan:Bonus baby. Bonus baby. There you go. Bonus baby. They're a lovely part of our church.
Jonathan:We love them, obviously adorable. What would you say that was like though getting that news like, oh.
Kathy:That I still remember. I was at the obstetrician's office. He had a new portable ultrasound machine. Mhmm. And he said, oh, this is new.
Kathy:We can see the baby. I'm eleven weeks pregnant. And he puts his machine on and he just stops. And I'm thinking, that's not right. And he said to me, what do you see?
Kathy:And I said, I see two round things. And I'm thinking, is this a headless I'm what I was looking at? Headless baby. And he said, yes. There are two of them.
Kathy:Oh. I remember Warren had just left to fly to The UK. So when he finally called in, he was very excited. He'd had an upgrade to business class that he wanted to tell me all about. And I'm waiting for my moment.
Kathy:He's like, oh, are you gonna ask me how my appointment? Oh, yeah. How'd that go? Yeah. We're having twins.
Kathy:And there was just a silence at the end of the line
Jonathan:and Oh.
Kathy:For the next three weeks, every time he called, he was like, we won't fit in the car. For me, we'd had a few friends that had had twins, and we were telling them, okay. And I sort of started laughing. I think I maybe went into shock for about two weeks. I just kept laughing a bit maniacally, really.
Kathy:So I think that was my body sort of reacting. But I mean, how amazing is our God? You know, these girls have been just an incredible blessing to our family. And, you know, I look at them now, I'm like, oh, so blessed to have them.
Jonathan:I love the unpredictability of that. And like, it's just God just drops this on you. Yeah. Like Yeah. Here you go.
Jonathan:And and it's like I wonder if you can tell me a little bit about that growing up process because you know, you said all your kids are over 30. You've made it to the other side. Yeah. And I wonder as you look back, how did the meaning of motherhood change for you, if at all, in that time or maybe develop is maybe a better word there?
Kathy:Yeah. I think it definitely changes. And when they're little, you're physically doing everything for them, and the physical demands are great. And, yeah, when you've got four of them my oldest was six when the twins were born, and he was very good with them, which is helpful. But when you've got four of them, you're on the run all the time.
Kathy:Like you said, you're planning all the time. You're managing all the time. And then they get older and the physical demands, you know, they can get dressed. They can walk to the car. Hallelujah.
Kathy:They can strap themselves in and they wonderful. But then the mental demands, I think, start because suddenly they're out in the world, They're dealing with some people who are lovely, some people who are not so lovely. They're dealing with who they are in the world, expectations. So that mental load, I think, becomes greater. And then I think I reckon for boys about 21, girls about 19, if you get to there, happy days.
Kathy:Because after that, they just they give me so much back if I need advice. Beautiful. You know, I have three health professionals and one cyber guy. So problem with my computer, I know who to call. Problem with my anything, helpline, I don't know who to call.
Kathy:And I love that. Yeah. And I think spiritually, you want, obviously, to follow Christ. That's your thing as a Christian parent. And for me, for them to be able to tell me how they're going in their Christian walk, and I might have a question for them.
Kathy:Said, oh, this is what I think you should do, mom. Well, I'll pray about that for your mom. It's amazing.
Jonathan:Yeah. Very special. Very, very special. What has mothering taught you about God?
Kylie:For me, I'm gonna say to pray way more than I have been. That I was gonna say that is I remember particularly with my first, that's all I could do at times that I
Kathy:was like,
Kylie:I don't know what to do. He's not asleep.
Kathy:Mhmm.
Kylie:He's had it hasn't fed. All I could do was fall on my knees and pray. And that's probably been the biggest change in motherhood for me in that just those little prayers and praying and just taking it to God going, nothing is too silly. I'm gonna pray that you fall asleep.
Gwen:Yeah. And I do all the time.
Kylie:Yeah. I'm gonna pray that you eat your dinner. And they might seem like small mundane things, but our God loves to hear from us and he is the God of mundane things as well. He wants the big things, but he also wants the small things and he wants us to take everything to him in prayer. And so it's those silent little prayers that help me.
Kylie:And I think, yeah, for me, that's the biggest thing in turning to God daily, hourly, minute by minute, asking him for help and saying that I can't do it. I actually need you to help me do this. I need you should be doing this for my kids. Yeah.
Jonathan:So would it be fair to say that you being in constant demand Yeah. Kind of makes you aware that, well, maybe I can actually maybe God's could I'm
Kylie:in constant demand of God now.
Jonathan:I can be in constant demand of him. Yeah. Like, maybe I can add to his divine load of, like Yeah. What he's
Kylie:It really is that the more demands my kids put on me, the more don't wanna say demand of God, but the more I, like, call out to God. And there's even times where the kid's having a rough day, they're emotional. I'm feeling tired. I'm feeling exhausted. And even the other day, was like, just give me joy in our day.
Kylie:Let me find the joy in my kids. Let me find the joy in our day together.
Gwen:That's that's a 100% my experience, well, of like, this is so out of your control. And this is so much more than what you like, the demand of children is so much more than what a human being can actually meet that it really does drive you to your knee. I love that.
Kathy:I would agree with that. I can remember when my girls were maybe two, and it was pretty hectic time. And I can remember going to my bedroom, shutting the door behind me, and saying to God, no. These are the children you've given me. Look what you did.
Kathy:Yep. And so I'm gonna need your help yet to go back out there Yeah. Yeah. And deal with the situation that we're currently. And I think also just the love you have for your children, great, and you realize that's God's love for people.
Kathy:Mhmm. And you think, wow. If I'm who's imperfect, I love my children like this. How much more amazing is God's love, which is perfect?
Kylie:That's yeah. One thing that we have a little good night saying to our kids. It's mommy loves you, daddy loves you. And then for each kid, Owen loves you, Ruth loves you, Jesus loves you the most.
Gwen:Oh, I
Kylie:love Reminding them before they go to bed that Jesus is the one who loves them the most. And they'll say it to us now as well that Jesus loves me the most. And, yeah, it's that, you know what? We love you, but Jesus loves you more.
Jonathan:Yeah. How about you, Gwen? Anything anything else that you think motherhood's taught you about God?
Gwen:So much. I was pondering this in terms of the Bible and whose life looks the most like mine and the types of demands that are on it. Thinking about, you know, Ruth, all these women in the bible. And honestly, it's actually Jesus, I think. And and that's not to say that I'm anything like Jesus, but that he is feeding the hungry.
Gwen:And he is reaching out his hand to the sick and the hurting, and he's teaching, and he's comforting in the middle of the night. And he's all of these things, and the model of love that is encapsulated in Jesus is the direction that I wanna walk, and it's not necessarily that I'm ever gonna achieve that, but it's like the orientation of my life and the place where I find, when I was talking about, like, not knowing what to do and how to help my kiddo, there I see a pattern of love that I do wanna bring into it. You know, I don't know exactly what the mechanics that's gonna look like and it's gonna change, but to look to Christ and go, I want to be as much as I can in my very fallible way, a mirror of that love and that constant pouring out and that walking beside and discipling, that's where I find so much encouragement. And I never saw it that way before until I had kids.
Jonathan:Fascinated that you make that connection with discipleship. And I think about I think it's Mark's gospel where Jesus it it says, you know, he he picked them. He he picked his disciples, and he appointed them that he might be with them. Mhmm. And so when you ask how's God gonna save the world?
Jonathan:Well, he's gonna save the world by being with them. And so that's a beautiful link, think, to, you know, what is a reality for so many mothers, which is the the the time of being with them. And and it could be anything. It could be feeding. It could be, hey.
Jonathan:We're gonna go this direction. Hey. We're gonna I'm gonna teach you something here. Hey. Hey.
Jonathan:We're gonna I'm gonna sort out a fight between between between you. So, yeah, I love that you made that connection. I wanna raise a perhaps a tough issue, and I say it's one that I've encountered as a pastor. And and I'm curious as women, as mothers, how you handle spaces like this. We've been talking a lot of you know, about, you know, what it means to be a mother, you know, having children, that experience, what it's been like for you.
Jonathan:But I'm very conscious that there's many women who would like to be a mother who who aren't or who can't. And I'm conscious that there's a lot of women who perhaps were only mothers for a very short time and, you know, and still mothers, not so taking that away from them, for whom the experience of motherhood has been perhaps the greatest tragedy of their life. I'm curious, how do you how do you as women interact in that space? How do be grateful for what God has provided for your life? How do you be honest about the challenges and the struggles, but also dignify that there's other people for whom this is a point of grief.
Kylie:It is tricky supporting women. So there's the the women who've become mothers and have lost their babies. So we actually miscarried our very first pregnancy. And one of the reassurances that a few friends gave me is one thing I didn't realize is how many women miscarried their babies. And so many moms came out of the woodwork and just shared, especially that reassurance that I'll meet that baby in heaven one day.
Kylie:Mhmm. And I think that's a reassurance that I've been able to share with other moms that baby's loved. But, yeah, that God has placed a child in our life for however long, and he loves them, and he's with them, and that he has a plan for our lives. And I know it's so hard to hear at the time, but how that can then be used to encourage other moms and go, God is using this. Sometimes we don't know why.
Kylie:We don't know when we we'll know why. We never know what God's doing, but he's got such a bigger picture for us and how some of our encouragement can encourage another mom or a mom to be. And I think it's yeah. It is tricky that there are so many women who want to become moms, and it's just not happening. And I think that's where it's really hard, and they have to trust in God's timing and go, this is where God wants me to be.
Kylie:And when he wants me to be, he wants me to be turning to him. And, yeah, it I think it is just having that care for them and that love for them that, you know what, we're there to support them through every step and to encourage them and told them through the hardships and know that got a God of comfort, and he comforts us. Even though we might have a desire or a plan that God's got a much bigger, better plan for our lives. And, yeah, and sometimes that is really hard. And it really hurts that you don't necessarily get what you want, but it's what ultimately God wants.
Kylie:And that's a really hard lesson to learn and a really hard hard lesson to hear that, you know what, those women who have a desire to become a mom, and God's just not providing in the way that they want. And so I think it is turning back to him and going, God's got a plan for me, and I have to trust it. And sometimes there's a lot of grief involved with that.
Gwen:I've heard that the two great struggles that people have with Christianity are the hiddenness of God and suffering. Mhmm. And I think it was John Lennox or somebody who said that the the answer that Christianity gives sometimes isn't a perfect reason why, but it's a God on a cross. You know, that he experiences both there. Right?
Gwen:When he's calling out my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? He's in pain and he's feeling the separation and what we can offer in faith sometimes isn't the perfect answer but is a God who has experienced the things that you're experiencing, and there's incredible comfort in that.
Kathy:They're all good answers. I think maybe as a community, we need to be inclusive, not just make them feel not they're part of that gang sort of thing. And, yeah, build relationships, I suppose.
Gwen:It's a great wisdom to just weep with those who weep. Mhmm.
Kylie:I mean, in the book
Gwen:of Job, there is something to be said for saying nothing. Just being there with a person in their grief. Yeah.
Jonathan:I'm glad you brought that up, Kathy, about the community because I think the church has an opportunity to be really countercultural. When we look about we look at the church, God brings together people from all different backgrounds, all different ages, all different cultures, all different experiences, different levels of intellect and physical ability and and, you know, social class and he puts us all together in a context of grace and love and acceptance. And so I think if there's any place where we should be able to provide some some healing and support, it should be the church. How can the church be different from mothers? How can the church show up for mothers in a way that is different than the world, different than what we see?
Jonathan:Like, what would it be like? And where would you love to see the body of Christ just show up and be different?
Gwen:I mean, we see in the world this weird combination of motherhood as this great Instagram experience where you can be like a baby announcement followed by, and then they're really annoying and we're done with this, you know. And maybe the church can be the reverse of that, where on the one hand, we we always celebrate life and we're always honest about the hardship of it, but this constant reminder that there is a purpose. There is a goodness. This is a long slow journey. It's going to change.
Gwen:Your kids are gonna grow, and they're gonna change and to have a place where you're reminded of that, where you're picked up on the hard days, reminded that this is good and this is beautiful for you, for your kids. When there are people that celebrate with you on the good days, they give grace throughout the whole experience, that's really important.
Jonathan:Kind of the long haul that that sort of the slow, not not not the immediate, but just long relationship Yes. Keeps showing up.
Kylie:It's a long term game. Yeah. Yeah. And that's one thing that like, I'm very early in my motherhood and it's been taught as a lot of people said, you're playing the long game.
Jonathan:Mhmm.
Kylie:And it's not about what they eat for dinner tonight. You're raising a person. And so I think as a church coming together and everyone says it takes a village to raise child. Being that village, it's also being a villager and being there, not expecting everyone to come and go, we're all gonna support you, but also supporting others. That that village, you're part of the village or a villager, you contribute, you support the other moms, you listen to them when they're having their hard days, you do celebrate their joys.
Kylie:And just sitting with them and going, you know what? I'm gonna offer you practical support. Let's go get a coffee. Let's have a meal together. Let's have a play date with our kids.
Kylie:So you know what? I'm not sitting in my house with my kids playing by themselves. They've got someone else to play with, and I can chat to another mom at the same time. And it's also just sitting and, like, praying with them and going, you know what? It is hard.
Kylie:I'm gonna pray. And sometime like I said before, some all we can do is pray. And so I think it's about developing those connections and having that more more than that superficial how's your day? How did they sleep? Things like that.
Kylie:And just going deeper than that and going, you know, what what are you struggling with? What are the joys? Is there something that you're reading in the bible at the moment that's been really encouraging? Or how can I help you sit and read your bible? Things like that.
Kylie:And just building those connections and those friendships that last. So as our kids grow, we grow together too.
Kathy:I think it's really hard when your kids are little. It's isolating, and it's hard to get to church. And I remember those days, and I know you and I spoke last week because I know you had a hard week. And I remember, you know, we would come sometimes, and one of us would be in Croatia, and one of us would be somewhere else. And you go home, like, why did we bother?
Kathy:Yeah. But I'm glad that we did bother. It is a season, and it can be a tough season. But I think as a church community, we may need to maybe be better at looking out for that and saying, well, how could I help in that situation? Or how can we support those families?
Kathy:Because it's a it's exhausting having people, and it can be isolating if you're used to being at work five days a week, and now you're at home, or you're at work and at home trying to do everything. I think our families have a lot of time pressure on them. And I think that's hard then to see where does church community fit in with that. Because if you're busy, you're working, you're at school, your weekends are busy with sport, where does where does that church community fit in? And I think that's a real challenge for families, probably more so than it was in my day.
Kylie:I think it's also acknowledging that, you know what, we as a family that you don't always fit into though, like, you do have those hardships. I think it's acknowledging that and but also being okay with it. Like, when we rock up to church half an hour late because we've had a morning getting out the door, it's thanks for being here.
Kathy:Mhmm.
Gwen:Like Yeah.
Kylie:You've made the effort. Thanks for being here. I know you probably you didn't spend much time in church because you were going between changing a nappy, taking a child into the going, you know what? That's hard. But thanks for being here and actually showing up.
Kylie:We had a hard week last week. Yeah. And we
Gwen:I was behind you. We're like And they're up.
Kathy:And they're up. And up. And they're there.
Kylie:We were yo yos. Going up and down. But we were able to have that community and that fellowship afterwards. And even though we didn't get to sit in much of church, we still people acknowledged that was a hard week. But you know what?
Kylie:You made it. And we were able to actually just spend time chatting with others after church. So even though thankfully the sermons online, we can listen later on, but we still had that time to be in community. And so we're able to have that fellowship still with our brothers and sisters in Christ, even though being pulled all different directions, we still were able to have quality time.
Jonathan:Yeah. Well said. We might finish with just a plug for, our playtime ministry, which has kicked off again recently. Yeah. We have two people who are involved in organizing that, Kylie and Kathy.
Jonathan:So, yeah, tell us a bit about how's it you've been up and going for about a term and a half now.
Kylie:Just over term. Yeah. So that was one thing. When I was thinking talking about being a villager, it's being there. And that's one thing that we really felt that the families in our church really needed somewhere where that they could come and just be together.
Kylie:And that was something that was a few of us moms that really played on our hearts that, you know what, playtime is a place where families can come. And that's what we really wanted. So, yeah, we have our playtime on Thursday mornings at 09:30 here at the church, and it's just a place where kids can come. And so zero to fives is our, like, target age group, just those really young families. And it's a place where families can come and bring their kids.
Kylie:They could have a play. We have a little bit of structure to it. So we've got some music time, and we've got some time where we're sharing the gospel with our kids. So this term, we're doing people God gave us people to help us. And so just looking at all the different occupations and how God gives people to help us and just we can turn to the Lord for our help as well.
Kylie:And so, yeah, we've got that playtime. It's a time where the kids can play together, but also families and parents and carers can have that time to fellowship and chat. So while their kids are playing, yes, you'll be interrupted by your child playing. But it's a chance to connect with others and just go, hey, how are you going? And building those relationships because relationships take time.
Kylie:And so expecting for a five minute chat after church to build a relationship. So this is a place where we can be more intentional and actually get to know each other a bit better. Our kids can get to know each other. My two year old is now asking for a nearly four year old. Are we gonna get to see them at playtime?
Kylie:And I was like, yeah. Yeah. You'll get to play with them today. And just, yeah, building those our kids are building relationships, but as families, we're also building relationships with each other. And that yeah.
Kylie:We're there to support each other.
Jonathan:Well, this has been, a very enlightening, a very lively conversation. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us, for sharing, yeah, your experience. It's just been an absolute delight. So probably the first one to wish you all happy Mother's Day. But please, yeah, if you're interested about playtime, check out our websites.
Jonathan:You can find more details there, Thursday mornings. If there's anything in this conversation that you'd like to follow-up on, yeah, just send us an email. We'd love to follow-up on the conversation with you. For another episode of This Week At Windsor, this is Jonathan signing off saying Arden Beach, where are you?