Ep. 126: A Hunters Insight on Mental Fitness

Travis Bader sits down with the adventurous and passionate outdoorsman, Matt Jenkins. Join them as they delve into Matt's love for hunting, his experiences in the wild, and the importance of connecting with nature. Discover how Matt's journey led him to embrace the beauty and serenity of the great outdoors, and gain valuable insights into mental health and its relationship with outdoor activities. Don't miss this engaging conversation that will leave you inspired to embark on your own outdoor adventures. Tune in now and deepen your connection to the natural world.

https://www.instagram.com/mattjenkins

https://www.wellnesstogether.ca/

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

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ca.

So a while back, I was recording a
podcast with Sean Taylor, episode

number 85 out at his house in Roslyn.

And we wrap it all up and he
says, have you met my buddy?

Matt Jenkins got to talk with this guy.

And then again, talking with
Steve Wilson in episode one 20.

And he's talking about
this Matt Jenkins guy.

You got to talk with him.

He loves to hunt.

He's such a great guy.

And I've heard your name before, and
I've, I've seen you on different internet

forums, but we never had the opportunity
to meet up until, well, a little bit ago.

So why don't I just start off here?

Welcome.

Back to the Silvercore podcast, Matt

Matt Jenkins: Jenkins.

I'm super happy to be back.

Thank you.

Travis Bader: Well, we were, so,
uh, Bredow was looking for a place

to run a program during OPEC.

And I guess that's the, the law
enforcement, uh, show and tell

big trade show type thing for,
uh, the gun industry and security.

Type companies.

And, uh, so Breda Stoker, Shani
reaches out and says, Trav,

we're looking for a range.

We want to arrange where we can run.

And X, Y, Z, we got full
auto, we got suppressors.

We've got all the cool kitten toys.

And so I said, yeah, the range
Langley, that's your ticket.

You got to check out the range Langley.

They're perfectly set up for it.

Like, no, no, no, no, no.

We want an outdoor range.

And they got all these
different requirements.

I said, no, no, no, no.

You want the range Langley.

And here's why anyways, they looked at it.

They said, okay.

Fair enough.

You're right.

That's a place to go.

I'm there.

I show up, I say hi to everybody
and do a quick post on social media.

And like, literally I post this
thing out, I have a picture in.

Ding, there's Matt Jenkins.

He says, okay, I'm in.

Can I come?

What's up?

I said, yeah, you just got to
have a badge, which you do.

And, um, and you're in there.

So that was, that was the first time we
actually got to meet face to face and

really glad I was able to get to meet you.

That's pretty cool.

And then

Matt Jenkins: what happened?

We, uh, decided to sit down and report
a podcast and , as I, as I do, you get

a case of the cold feet and you start
thinking about what you said and what

you didn't said and say, and all of a
sudden like, Ooh, I'm overthinking this

one and I think we gotta do it again.

Travis Bader: Well, I thought
it, honestly, I thought it

was a really good podcast.

I, I really enjoyed it.

There's a lot of information in there,
but, uh, when you said pull the plug,

I talked to the, the social team, I'm
like, yep, we're pulling the plug.

And then later on, you're like, you know,
I really wish I was on this one course.

And it's some great information in there.

And I really wanted to get
that information across.

And so I said, great.

You know, the, my job here is to
portray the best possible you.

And if you weren't happy with the last
one, even though I thought it was pretty

good, you did a pretty damn good job.

Matt Jenkins: I appreciate that it,
uh, of course the immediate feeling

goes to guilt because looking at,
uh, the production value and I don't

know how much of the studio you can
actually see in the YouTube, but it's

a pretty impressive facility and coming
in for a couple hours and then having

it scrubbed was, I felt pretty bad.

You know what?

Travis Bader: This is
all part of the process.

And I, I was mentioned earlier.

So Anthony Stasek or he XSBS owner of,
uh, co founder of, uh, through dark, I

think it'll actually, yeah, there you go.

Shameless plug.

Wearing a through dark shirt.

Honestly, they fit the
last 30 or so podcasts.

You'll notice I'm wearing their kit.

Anyways, he's in the UK.

We set the time.

I'm up around two 30 in the
morning to record the podcast,

drive out here, getting myself
all ready doing jumping jacks.

I got to be on.

I can't be all groggy and the time rolls
around to record and he doesn't show up.

I'm like, Oh, I missed it by an hour.

I'm an hour early.

So I wait another hour and
no, I'm actually Day early.

So, okay.

Regroup again the next
day, get up proper time.

This time, Anthony doesn't show up.

So we regrouped again a couple of days
later, but that was a few mornings of

getting up, but this is all, this is all
part of doing a podcast, so it's all good.

Um, yeah.

And you know, shamelessly.

So here's another plug, uh, coming up.

Let's see when this, yeah, this will be
coming out before, uh, such and Latty.

He has.

He asked if I could give an 11
minute talk and I said, sure,

yeah, I can give an 11 minute talk.

I've got to figure something
to talk about here.

And he says, well, what if you
talk about, uh, mental health?

And the outdoors and, uh,
what all that means to you.

So from my own selfish perspective, this
is fantastic because I'm just going to

be pumping you for information too, and
looking at your perspective and I'll

be using all of this to help create
my talk, which in, Typical ADHD style.

I have yet to begin.

I'll make

Matt Jenkins: sure I trademark everything
I say before March 30th, and you'll

be paying me for everything I say.

I love it.

Are you going to be there?

No, I won't.

I'll be back up in God's country
and the Kootenai's not down in.

This, uh, I don't know how to call the
lower mainland anything positively and,

uh, PG rated, but it's, it's a place.

It's a

Travis Bader: place.

You know what, when you get outside
it for a little bit, like I grew up

in Surrey and I've heard all of the
Surrey jokes and everyone talks about

Surrey, what are you talking about?

This place is fantastic.

Surrey's the best, right?

When I moved out of Surrey
and I saw something a little

different, I'm like, oh, Okay.

I get where they're coming from.

I get where the jokes are coming from.

Not that I'd disparage it in
any way, but when you're in it.

What is Surrey?

Yeah.

When you're in it, it's hard
to see outside of it, right?

It's,

Matt Jenkins: uh, I grew up in Langley
and, um, you know, when, when I went over

to Surrey, I just, you kind of get back to
Langley, just feel dirty, you feel dirty

and you've got to go up and take a shower.

I love it.

But, uh, no, it's good.

I'm, I, every time I had the opportunity
to come back, uh, Moving out of

the lower mainland was fantastic.

Uh, it was a great opportunity and being
able to move for, for the job was, it

made things really easy, but I'd have
to admit, uh, I was driving around Fort

Langley the other night, uh, beautiful
weather, no traffic and it was There is

part of me that does miss living down
here and it's days like those, okay, this

is, this is nice and nice and nostalgic,
but I'm not coming back anytime soon.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

There's something to be said for
few less people, a little bit

easier access to the outdoors or a
lot easier access to the outdoors.

And yeah, uh, you know, my head's
clicking in that direction too.

I mean, that would, um, we'll see,
we'll see what, uh, what comes in time.

Dude, these are nice this time of year.

Yeah, yes they are.

So your background, you got into.

You, I think you mentioned before, you're
more of a gun guy than you are a hunter

and everyone that has introduced you, you
to me describes you as a hunter, right?

Matt Jenkins: I suppose that's
the power of perceptions.

Um, grew up, uh, in Virginia.

Um, I tell everybody how I ended up in BC.

I just got lost on my way to Alaska.

That's the short, that's me,
uh, shortening that story,

but, uh, grew up shooting.

Um.

You know, being that I grew up in the
United States, it was shooting things

like handguns and AK 47s and AR 15s.

I actually had never touched a bolt
action rifle until I moved to Canada.

Go figures.

Yeah.

Um, don't come from a family of hunters.

Um, about 16 years old, got into hunting
through my, my still best friend.

Uh, his dad really took
me under his wing and.

I, from our first trip in, I guess that
would have been September, September

youth season of 2007, uh, the O'Klean
and Sinker, everything around, everything

from that point on really revolved
around how do I do this and yeah, the

rest is history, but I still do consider
myself, uh, more, more well versed in the

firearms realm than the hunting realm.

But again, perception
is an interesting thing.

What kind of a hunt was it?

I was a mule deer hunt, um, up in, I
guess it would have been the North end of

region eight off the Okanogan connector.

And I had no idea.

I knew I was going two weeks before.

So I'm buying hunting magazines
and I'm like, Oh, you know,

tips to shoot a white tail.

Okay, cool.

Well, geez, a white tail and a mule
deer, that's gotta be the same thing.

If it works in the magazine, it's
going to work where we're going.

Hey, stupid, you're a
different species for a reason.

Sure, sure.

Yeah.

Uh, and then a couple of months later,
did another hunt with, um, again with

Dan and his dad and his little brother.

And, and we were lucky.

We got, uh, Back to back
success and, and was hooked.

Um, what

Travis Bader: was it that hooked you?

Matt Jenkins: I always had an interest
in it, you know, growing up in the

States, the Sportsman's channel, there
was 15 versions of wild TV down there

and they all had hunting content.

And I always thought, you
know, I love being outdoors.

I love firearms.

This is kind of seems like a
good way to put it together.

Although I, I, uh, it was interesting,
even from a young age, thinking

about hunting, I was hooked.

When I looked at the guys in the
tree stands and the ground bonds, I'm

like, I don't think I can do this.

Like, I'm, I'm too ADD.

I'll be going stir crazy and a deer
is going to walk in front of me and

I'm going to have no idea it's there.

Cause I'm going to be too busy, you know,
counting leaves on trees or something.

And what did you find?

Uh, I found that, uh, well we, we had
it, honestly, we had it pretty cushy.

We were in a camper in
the back of the truck.

We were cruising around on quads.

It was a pretty, pretty
cushy introduction to it.

Um, but yeah, Yeah, the, the places
hunting has taken me, the people it's

introduced me to, it's second to none.

I'm very hobby heavy skiing,
mountain biking, hunting, shooting.

But, uh, if I had to strip all of
those things away and be reduced

to one passion, hunting would be
obviously what reigned supreme.

Getting into skiing and re introducing
myself to mountain biking really

was something essentially to
pass the time between, you know,

November or December in some cases.

And then, you Uh, September

Travis Bader: again.

So you were out mountain
biking today, weren't you?

It was Steve.

Matt Jenkins: Yeah, I
am physically abused.

Travis Bader: Well, that's
his bread and butter, right?

It is.

Matt Jenkins: And he, uh, he, he was, I
was quick to point out to him this morning

as I was cursing and swearing and sweating
that he's been riding all winter and I

haven't touched my bike in nine months,
so I'll hang on to that little thing.

That I, you know, hopefully
I'm not that bad all season,

but it was, uh, it was awesome.

And, uh, coming full circle back to
Steve, he actually ran the mountain

bike program when I was in high school.

Uh, he was a teacher of mine.

And the last time I rode the
woodlot 19 years ago was with

him and my best friend, Dan.

And then here we are.

19 years later, writing again.

So it's life is funny.

Travis Bader: He mentions
you or he alludes to you.

Anyways, I don't think he used
your name, but he talked about

you in his Ted talk that he did.

He did.

Yep.

Yeah.

That was, that was a really good Ted talk.

I was, uh, maybe I should talk with
him about my little 11 minute speech.

I got to put together, but he
did a damn good job on that.

Matt Jenkins: Phenomenal.

I, um, I, you know, I, I look at the, the
Ted talk and I remember talking to him

prior, him asking me if he could use a
kind of a very, uh, sort of an anonymized

version of a connection with me.

He did put my picture up there
just without the name attached.

And I watching the final production,
it's one thing to sit and have a back

and forth conversation, but it's another
thing to be standing in a box on a stage

and have a, uh, basically turn your,
what's in your head into a product, right.

And have, you know, little to no
prompting capture that audience.

So I.

Pretty wild and yeah, it was very
humbling to see that final product and

how'd you feel a lot of gratitude, right?

You know, it's um, I've had amazing
connections with people my entire life

and it's Phenomenal the impact that we
can have on one another without you know

The smallest gesture can mean so much
to other folks and the fact that other

people view me as having a phenomenal
impact on them enough to use them

on a Uh, Ted talk is beyond anything
that I think I'm well could have done.

Travis Bader: Isn't that funny
how, how we can interact with

people throughout our life and the
little actions that we can make.

And we don't even understand the impact
that it's having on those around us, other

through our example or through, uh, just
like how I'm learning about you through

Sean and through Steve and through other
people or, uh, or directly, you know, I, I

had, uh, uh, one person reach out and, um,
he was telling me a little bit about what

he does and, and, uh, I looked over any on
his, I think it was on his Instagram feed.

I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool.

He's got some neat mugs he's got,
uh, and he puts out there and I'll

pick one of these things up and he
comes back and says, you're the first

person to purchase a mug and he has no
idea how these little things, uh, can

impact someone is what he said to me.

And I'm like, okay, that's cool.

That's interesting.

You know, just taking the time to, to
always be conscious of what we're doing.

And I guess it's sort of a balancing
act because you don't want to

always be thinking, well, what
are people thinking about me?

Right.

It's exhausting.

Right.

But in the same breath, you want to
make sure you're always conducting

yourself and comporting yourself
in a way that you're not detracting

from somebody's joy or their life.

Then you're hopefully, you
know, Adding to their joy.

Matt Jenkins: Yeah.

And then the way, you know, I look at
situations is, is what can I do and

what can I provide in terms of value
to the connections I have, right.

Whether it's, um, you know,
a venture at work, right.

What can I do to add value to this
unit I'm working with, or this, this,

this program that I'm involved in
to what can I do to add value to the

relationships I have with people, right.

Um, with friends and family, I don't know.

I, sometimes I miss the mark by a mile,
but, um, when, you Thinking in terms of

that of yeah, you certainly want to add
something you want to contribute You

don't want to become you don't want to
be a cost if you're a cost to something

you're in some cases doing it wrong I
mean there are some things where you can

you go into a situation knowing that you
are going to be the beneficiary of it

But it certainly feels good to be you
know Try to be the the person providing

something to others and if it's a two
way street then It just means that

relationship or that, uh, connections
beneficial all across the board.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, it's, it's one of these
things that a giver will always find

takers hanging around them, right.

And you don't, and you have to
guard yourself against that.

You definitely don't want to
find yourself in a position where

you're being viewed as a taker.

And quite often a giver will look at
that and they'll try and reciprocate.

And like, you know, just last time when we
recorded, I was out with a friend of mine.

Now I went to school with his son.

And I just spend more time with, with
the father than I do with the son.

And the son owns a number of
restaurants throughout Vancouver.

So we're going around, checking out a
bunch of these different places and ask

for Luigi poor house, Carlino's, um, like
a bunch of Italian, he's Italian fellow.

And, uh, brings me to one of
their places and the guy who's

running the place comes up.

She's like, Oh, this is
this thing, rum baba.

I make these myself in house.

I want you to have it and
ends up giving me this thing.

And so I find something else to
purchase and I basically pay for the

price of the, uh, the, the Marambaba.

And here I'm thinking, you know,
I don't want to be on the negative

end of that, that exchange.

And when we left there, um, My
friend, he says, why'd you do that?

Don't do that.

Travis.

He's trying to do something nice, right?

And it looks bad on you.

It looks bad on me.

And so that's one of the areas where,
where I have a difficult time navigating.

Cause I never want to be on
the negative side of that.

Um, I don't know.

You like that.

Is

Matt Jenkins: that, I, there, you know,
when you know somebody well enough,

um, there certainly is, you know, a
back and forth of, you know, favors or

knowledge and you're, you're, you have
that sort of, you're not keeping track.

You just, you want to, you want to
help somebody, you know, that they have

something that they can provide to you
and knowledge or, you know, I'll let

you, Steve and me, for example, right?

I, the amount of knowledge he's pulled
from my brain on the hunting and the

firearm realm, couldn't put a price on it.

Meanwhile, he's been
wrenched on my bike all week.

And, you know, it's just
one of those things.

You surround yourself with
people you can lean on.

Then it It's what friends
do for one another.

But if it's a connection that isn't
as deep, then, you know, yeah, I feel

compelled to pull my weight per se.

Travis Bader: So, you know, talking
with Steve, I definitely get the sense

that there's, um, uh, there's more of
a emotional and kind of, even it's kind

of spiritual connection that he's having
with the outdoors and the hunting.

Yeah.

That he's either, uh, grown on his
own with your help or, but I get

more of the sense it's something that
you've assisted with in that process.

Matt Jenkins: I, I think that's, it's
given me entirely too much credit.

He, uh, yeah, Steve's a guy who again,
uh, was a mentor of mine educationally

and also doing a lot with the outdoor ed
programs back when I was in high school.

And, uh, Certainly a fellow that I
looked up to because, you know, he had

all of his wilderness first days, he
had done trips to the Arctic circle.

He'd been, you know, on the ice roads
up North, um, you know, led groups of

kids and, and done a tremendous amount
of experience in the back country.

So all I did was kind of say,
Hey, you know what you're doing.

Only difference is now is, is, you
know, The purpose for you being in

the outdoors is a little different,
so here's how we're going to take

the skills you have and apply them
to something a little bit different.

Um, and now there was some teaching
along the way, I'm not going to

tell you how many years it took
him to actually complete it.

You know, shoot a grouse with
a 22 from 10 yards away, but

we'll let him sweat over that.

Now that I put it out into the world,
but, uh, yeah, for the most part, and you

have somebody who, uh, is, is switched
on, uh, knows what they're doing and

the skills are highly transferable.

I didn't do much.

Travis Bader: Just tell
me about that process.

Cause so, okay.

A friend of mine recently,
he's like talking to me

about a few different things.

He's a, Very intelligent individual.

He's like, do you read much Nietzsche?

He says, I'm like, well, a
bit, you know, I've read a bit.

I want Montesquieu, right.

Or Schopenhauer.

I'm like, no, you really should.

You really should.

Right.

And, um, gives me some book
recommendations and I said,

well, do they come with pictures?

They don't.

And so, but, uh, Schopenhauer,
um, by all accounts so far, what

I'm reading, he seems to be, uh,
Pretty critical about hunting.

He makes a statement about hunting
and he says, the satisfaction of

hunting lies in the process of the
chase and the exercise of skill rather

than in the death of the animal.

In this respect, the true hunter
is more interested in the pursuit

itself than in the final result.

Matt Jenkins: Absolutely.

I couldn't have, couldn't have
put it any better than that.

Um, the amount of years I tag soup,
uh, or the amount of times when

I'm out with somebody and I, I get
with more satisfaction over, you

know, helping them or assisting
them to me, it doesn't matter.

Right.

At the end of the day, we are successful.

I don't care who pulls the trigger.

That is not, it's not a thing for me.

Right.

Um, So again, to help, uh, to help
with that process has been phenomenal.

And you know, when I think back on the
trips I've done all over BC, up North,

the Kootenays, proximity to the lower
mainland, some of the most, the stories,

the memories and everything came from,
you know, the people I'm with, the

places I am rather than, you know,
what we're taking physically, taking

home from that trip or taking from that
landscape, of course, tremendous bonus.

Uh, and, and the pride you have
when you are successful in that

trip, you can't replace it.

Um, And that's where I think we, you
know, as hunters who are comfortable

having difficult conversations,
it's really important for us.

And if you've, if you don't hunt,
it's really hard to understand

because again, the classic adage
of, well, how can you admire

something if you're going to kill it?

Well, you know, obviously at
face value, that seems like a

very accurate statement, but.

Really, when you get into talking with
people who are passionate about it, it's

sort of that's kind of the culmination of
the effort you've put in the preparation,

the physical preparation, you know, you
can't just go walk up and down the hills.

You know, without prep, preparing
your body, otherwise you're going

to be a liability or at the very
least you're going to be miserable.

Yeah.

Um, you know, where do you go, uh,
access your, your, your kit, your

equipment, um, finding those people who
you can intrinsically trust, because

there's a lots of times I've been
hunting, I'm like, this is terrible.

This is a terrible experience and
I don't want to be where I am.

I want to be sitting on a beach somewhere.

That's it.

That's all.

I don't want to be sitting on a beach.

I hate the beach, but
I want to be anywhere.

What I am when I'm cold
and I'm wet and I'm tired.

And all I see above me is, is,
uh, mountains and false summits.

And, uh, and then when you're
successful, it just really puts into

perspective, everything that you've
done to get yourself to that point.

And the amount of pride I take.

Um, and the, how seriously I take the
act of mentorship is, is colossal, right?

If people are trusting me to give them
those experiences or pass on those

skills to them, it's not something that
I take for granted because it's 2024.

The resources we have, you know,
arguably in certain aspects, you

can't replace a mentor to go out there
with you, but let's be honest, right?

Through your podcast, through, um,
good, uh, folks instructing hunter

safety courses through guys like
Steve Fernella, there's so many

ways you can learn these things.

Refine them on your own.

Mm-Hmm.

But, you know, uh, there's lots of ways
you can do it without a lot of help.

So the fact that people are
still turning to me, um, is Yeah.

It's something that I
don't take for granted.

No.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

That, that mentorship program is
something that is one of the most

difficult pieces of the puzzle for Mm-Hmm.

Those people.

Absolutely.

I mean, there's only so many
podcasts you can listen to.

Only so many YouTube videos
or books you can read.

Mm-Hmm.

. But to actually have somebody to kind of
take you in and show you the ropes, to

help you be successful, can it, it can
be dejecting, it can be discouraging.

Absolutely.

You go out there over and over again.

For me, I've never made
the animal, my prize.

Just like in business, I don't make money.

My prize, if I make money, my prize,
I'm always going to be chasing it.

If I make the enjoyment of what
I'm doing and the pursuit of trying

to provide excellence best of my
ability or quality to the end user.

Money will be a natural
by product of that.

Just like in hunting, if I make the
deepening of the connection, my connection

with the natural environment, my end
goal, the default of all of that will be,

I'll start learning where the animals are
and when they are and how they're moving

and, and I will be successful in it.

Um, but.

But I've never, ever left a hunt and been
like, man, I wish I didn't go, right.

I could see if I had picked
the wrong group and maybe some,

some teammates to go out with.

And, uh, it was a wrong selection.

Thankfully that's never happened to me.

And Uh, time and effort goes into
making sure we're very selective

about those who we will go out.

Cause it'll push you, it'll, it'll
push you mentally and physically.

And if you're already kind of seeing
some ragged edges before you even

get out there, they'll, they'll show

Matt Jenkins: through.

And not only that to the ethics
piece, of course, you know, being law

abiding, but, uh, you know, there's
lots of ways where you can be compliant

with, you know, the wildlife act,
the firearms act and so forth, but

you're skirting that gray area, making
decisions that Are unethical, right?

Mm-Hmm.

. Uh, and I've always taken a,
I've always, yeah, I've always

taken that pretty seriously.

Um, realizing what's at stake.

You know, every time it seems
like every time the regulations

come out, we're losing a bit.

And not to go down that
rabbit hole, 'cause that's a

podcast in itself, , but, um.

Always being mindful of projecting that
good professional image of somebody

who knows what they're doing, who's
somebody truly appreciates what they're

doing and somebody that can back up what
they're doing with good points in a,

in a conversation with people who have
a different viewpoint about hunting.

It's important.

And I, uh, there are people that I've
hunted with who I've watched make

decisions sometimes in front of me,
or just sometimes through hearsay

or, or, uh, stories from clients.

Friends that I trust and I'm
there, that is enough for me

to say, Nope, I'm, I'm good.

I'll go with somebody else.

Right.

You're, you're not, my hunting
with you is not worth me being

associated with those behaviors.

Travis Bader: You know, it's,
you're talking about gray areas

and is there anyone really looking
over my shoulder at the moment?

I'm out in the woods, right?

Is it, I don't know.

What are the odds?

Anything would happen, right?

The second, that sort of thinking
starts to creep in, um, in

anybody, you've got an issue.

I think the best way to approach it is
to mentally role play ahead of time,

what you do in different circumstances.

And so when you're presented with
it, you've already got a framework

that you can kind of work with.

Yep.

I mean, I like I'll set an alarm for
a water fowl hunting when the alarm

goes off, there's no more shots.

We'll hear shots half an hour to
an hour after all of that, but

there's a difference between being
a hunter and being a poacher.

Yes.

And I know that if I were
to take a shot after that.

I wouldn't be feeling good about myself.

I wouldn't want to tell my friends
about, Hey, look at this, look

at this animal I've harvested.

Or well, how could you, right?

There's no story there, right?

He, he just got to, yeah.

And, and what's that worth
to you, you got to live with

yourself for the rest of the time.

And at the very least there's that on
top of that, then there's your reputation

and criminal charges and seizures and
all the other things that go with it.

So it's not worth

Matt Jenkins: it.

Maybe for some folks looking for views on
YouTube, but that's certainly not for me.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Wasn't there a couple of those things

Matt Jenkins: recently?

Yes.

So some sort of recent thing in my brain.

I think that it's applicable to,
but I can't remember who and where.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Yeah.

No.

And that's one of the things, you know,
there's pressure, people feel pressure

and they'll put it on themselves.

They want, they don't want to be, um,
coming back is unsuccessful, but if, and

I think that's where Renella kind of,
you know, help hit the nail on the head.

Um, and he tried to show the process, And
the pursuit rather than the end result.

Cause prior to this, like I've
never been a big watch and

hunting on TV type of person.

Uh, and in fact, when Rinella
came out, I'd never even heard

of him for the longest time.

And people kept bringing his name up.

I'm like, who is this Italian person
they keep talking about, right?

Meat

Matt Jenkins: eater was
the gateway drug for me.

No, it really, Oh yeah.

Now you look at my hunt, my
YouTube algorithm and it's,

it's, it's a rabbit hole.

Yeah.

That's my Saturday night.

Not my Saturday and Sunday mornings.

I work shift work, but per
se, my, my weekend mornings

off is spent with YouTube.

Just.

If I can't do it, it's always
interesting to watch the stories

that other people have and.

Uh, you know, there's a lot of
good content on there, but I'm

pretty choosy in what I watch.

It's gotta be authentic.

I don't like a lot of production value.

I don't like, you know, the, you know,
if you've got a list of sponsors a mile

long and there's more product shots than
hunting, I'm probably not interested,

but, uh, yeah, the, my favorite episode
of meat eater, um, Was one where nothing,

you didn't, didn't shoot anything.

I'm fairly nostalgic.

I like to go to the same places.

I, it's really cool to
reflect on memories.

I've made hunting in
places year after year.

And, uh, that particular episode of
Mediator, I think it was back in season

five, you know, he's talking about how
he's been in this, hunting the same basin

with friends and family for, for years.

Decades.

And so I, I kind of identified with it.

Right.

And I remember a friend of mine
saying, well, that was so it was dumb.

He didn't shoot anything.

I'm like, that's kind of the point.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

No, that's totally the point.

And I think when people start
connecting with that, they realize,

you know, maybe there's something
a little bit deeper to all of this.

Yep.

Um, no, you know, you were
talking about, uh, being mentored.

And the people that you have
mentored, what are you looking for

when you're looking at somebody
who wants to get mentored?

Because there's a lot of people
and they come out and they say,

like, you'll see them on the
forums or I'm looking for a mentor.

Can you tell me the best place to hunt?

And, uh, can I just tag along
with you in your honey hole?

And, and, and they get
ripped to shreds, right?

So if somebody is listening to this
and they're thinking about posting

on these forums or introducing
themselves to different groups, um,

and Um, you know, like this morning
I was, you know, I'll save that one.

You tell me, um, before my ADHD
kicks in, what are you looking

for in somebody to mentor?

Matt Jenkins: Uh, I'll, I'm,
I'm selfish with my time and my

knowledge to a certain extent.

And, uh, as much as I like to share
knowledge on the forums and share

things in controlled environments, if
I'm out in a situation where there's

a lot of variables I can't control.

Like hunting, if you're not somebody that
I know who has an aptitude to do the right

thing, who has the ability to, um, you
know, be safe and be ethical, probably

not going to go out on a limb and mentor
you in those field conditions, right?

Uh, you want to go to the range,
you want to have a conversation.

Absolutely.

Right.

Um, but if I'm actually going out there
to do the thing with you, I, I'm, I'm

very choosy and selective and I having
that connection, um, is imperative.

Right.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

You know.

So this morning I was out with my son
and we were checking on nesting boxes.

Yep.

So I've never done that before.

There's a Instagram feed.

It was pit water fowlers.

You heard of them?

Matt Jenkins: Uh, I'm familiar with
where like the pit river marsh is.

I've never checked the nesting boxes
and I'm not too familiar with their,

their organization to be perfectly

Travis Bader: honest.

Well, I'm, you know, I'm just.

I've, I've waterfowl hunted, you know,
ducks, geese, all the rest and, and, uh,

but I've never participated in nesting
boxes for like wood ducks and stuff.

So I thought, well, I'm seeing
this thing on social media.

They're looking for some help.

All right, we'll get up.

We'll try it out.

To pit and met up with a group of people.

Everyone's got the same interests.

They all get the same sort of ideas.

They've all got their, it was a
chance for everyone to get together

and talk about how their hunts were.

And, you know, if I was brand new to this,
the amount of knowledge that I would just

get in from going out and helping on one
of these things without even asking for

help, um, I would learn a heck of a lot.

Absolutely.

And, and I think if somebody is looking
for a mentor, I would look at those sorts

of things, you're fishing game clubs.

What can I do to help out
at your, your game dinner?

Right.

That's not hunting, but you're
going to make some connections.

Um, okay.

I'll get muddy and dirty
and pull out poles and slog

through in my waders and the.

You got to work for it.

Matt Jenkins: Right.

That's it.

There you go.

You know, there's a big difference.

And I think that, uh, you know, I look
a lot, a lot of the posts on, you know,

uh, I try to stay off the hunting forums.

Now, um, I look at some of
the posts I wrote 10 years ago

and I'm like, you opinionated.

23 year old, shut up.

Yeah.

I thought the same thing.

That's what I read about.

Fair, fair and valid, fair and valid.

We'll leave it at that.

But, um, you know, there's a
big difference between asking,

asking for advice, right.

Or, um, but again, talking back to
that idea of value, um, I think there's

a lot of folks who are getting into
hunting who truly don't appreciate

the amount of effort that goes in.

And, you know, through that mentorship
equation, there's a big difference

between, um, You know, forming kind
of a, a back and forth, you know, Hey,

this I'm now, I'm kind of developing
somebody I want to hunt with.

Right.

I'm mentoring you.

It's because I want to be able to phone
you and say, Hey, let's wake up at three

o'clock in the morning and drive for three
hours and hunt for six hours and then

drive home and sleep for the next 18.

Right.

Um, it's not somebody that I want to be,
you know, kind of leading to water per se.

Travis Bader: Right.

So here's some data.

The basic dues, you got to work
for it, put yourself out there,

um, have some skin in the game.

Don't always just be hand
there with your hand out.

But what would be some of the don'ts
that, um, uh, a mentee could do?

What are some things that would
immediately turn them off from

being mentored by yourself or

Matt Jenkins: anybody else?

If you start the conversation with,
okay, like, where are we going?

Can you send me some eye hunter pins?

Probably not.

Right.

Um, I, uh, I'm fortunate in that, you
know, living in the West Kootenays,

there's so much outdoors at my disposal.

I can drive 20 minutes in any direction
and, and, you know, not every day,

but have elk bugling back to calls.

Pretty rad, right?

Considering the full days I would
put in a day hunts, uh, going up

to region eight, living in Langley.

It's, it's pretty cool.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, if I'm, Because we have so
much at our disposal, uh, when I'm taking

new folks out, or my, my wife and I's
two good friends in Castlecar, they're

at, we, they, they've gone all in, right.

You know, they're, they're looking at
rifles to buy, they've got their core,

they've got their pal, they're, they're
really, um, I think trying to seize the

opportunities we have with where we live.

And it's cool that because of how much we
do have around us, when I'm taking those

two out, we're kind of learning together.

Right.

A lot of the spots we went to this
fall, I had never been or had been,

but hadn't really invested in.

So now I'm like, Hey, let's try spot A or
B or C or D as I'm picking up on things.

I can sort of, you know,
explain what I'm looking at.

And it's, it's, we're
both learning together.

So we're, we're, Sort of helping
each other level up per se, right.

I'm gaining knowledge about a
different area and they're just gaining

knowledge about something entirely new.

So it's, it's really cool.

Travis Bader: Have you ever had
somebody go and burn one of your spots?

Um.

Take them to a place and then the
next thing you know, all their

buddies are coming out there too.

Matt Jenkins: Probably, but at the same
time, Um, I'm, you know, I'm not going

to share where I go on a podcast, right.

But I feel that there, if I'm
sitting to somebody and you can have

a conversation and you either know
where you don't, okay, this, this

person's, you know, they're, they're
passionate, they've invested in things.

Having a conversation with
somebody like that, who's like

minded and put similar effort in,
I'm pretty cavalier with people.

Spots, because let's be honest, right?

If, if I end up talking and I
mentioned the name of a drainage

or a road or whatever, and the guy
goes, Oh, like, you know, all of a

sudden we're both, again, we're both
benefiting from that conversation.

But again, if I can sense somebody
is on the taking side of the

conversation, then obviously there's
going to be a lot less given up.

Right.

Travis Bader: So you're down here in
the lower mainland for another course.

Correct.

What's that course?

You started telling me about it.

I was like, Oh no, no,
no, sounds interesting.

Let's save it.

Matt Jenkins: Um, yeah, so I'm, you
mentioned already, I do carry a badge.

Uh, I'm with your CMP second generation
police officer, um, and through

those family connections and friendly
connections with the force, uh, starting

my career, I knew I wanted to have
a huge emphasis on wellness, right?

I wanted to, um, Be physically,
mentally, mentally and emotionally well

throughout my career, and I wanted to
learn the skills to, um, pass on to my

peers to make sure that they were all,
you know, not on the same page because

everybody's Perceives things differently,
but, um, sort of lead by example, but

then when I did have a peer that was
struggling, I was able to, uh, try my

best to, to give them a leg up right now.

I'm not being a clinician, but
there's an incredible amount of.

Uh, you can get through just
peer support by relatability.

So, uh, down and back in November, I
had the, the pleasure of being on a

course, um, which was what the RCMP calls
the proactive support response team.

The RCMP loves attack acronyms.

So P CERT, and it is a
new peer to peer model.

Um, we're, uh, Available 24 seven to
respond to things such as an employee in

crisis, uh, for suicide, uh, self harm
intervention, post critical incident

support, um, or dealing with prolonged
exposure to any sort of potentially

psychologically traumatic event, right?

PPTE, I think is the other acronym,
uh, that, that would, it's been

floated around quite a bit lately.

So when, You are dealing with
something, um, you can't just

suck it up and move on, right?

Um, it's, we as police officers
are no different from anybody else.

We take things home.

We, we have to look after ourselves.

Um, so by taking that course, the
skills I learned, the knowledge I

obtained with how to Be that peer
who, you know, I can't fix you, right?

I can't remove the memory of a scene
you've attended from your brain, but just

to make those phone calls and make those
connections or have those in person, um,

sessions to talk about a traumatic event.

There's a lot of power in that.

And simply knowing that there's peers
out there who are looking out for

people when the old ways was to suck
it up, find a way to deal with it.

That's probably unhealthy, very beneficial
to have that training back in November.

Um, And it's interesting because a lot
of the things that I learned and, and

the mandate and how we respond to those
post critical incident or, or traumatic

files is something that I was already
doing fairly unofficially, right?

If I knew, uh, friends of mine, uh,
Um, not even an area that I worked

and had attended something that was
unpleasant to say the least for me to

pick up a phone call and say, Hey, I,
you had to deal with something that

I wouldn't want to have to deal with.

How are you doing?

Right.

How is it affecting you?

Right.

What's your plan for tomorrow?

Really basic questions.

Um, you know, would
never, what was it like?

What'd you see?

What'd you smell?

Those are not questions that
are beneficial to somebody after

they've just, you know, Experience
something not so nice, but, um, and

then having a conversation, right.

And seeing where it went.

And, um, it's always tough, even with
people, you know, at a cold call and try

to have a conversation about an experience
that they would probably choose to forget.

Um, but it was always left with a huge
sense of like, okay, you know, I've, if I

was in that person's shoes, I would want
to know that I had had that experience.

Um, I took some time off a couple
years ago for my own mental health and

the, the, the two people that phone me
when they found out that I was taking

time off, I will never forget that
gesture and all it was was, Hey, I

heard you're taking a bit of time off.

Are you okay?

And is there anything
that I can do for you?

Um, what did you say?

I said, uh, I said, whatever Mountie says.

Yeah, I'm fine.

That's right.

Feeling inside, not expressing.

Um, But overwhelmingly grateful
for the phone call and there,

these are people that I, you know,
have been to all kinds of files

with who I would trust implicitly.

So the fact that they reached out means
a lot and I never held it against the

folks who didn't reach out either.

Um, that's not a thing, right there
because the stigma still exists

because there are people who maybe
are not progressing in their own path

to wellness for them to reach out.

It certainly wouldn't more do more
harm than good because it's always

nice to know that people care.

But yeah, I never held it against her.

I never kept score of who
called and who didn't.

I just know that it felt really good
to know people were looking out for me.

Travis Bader: I got to wonder, um, and,
and this probably would form some of

the training you've done and we've gone
through the delicate balance between,

uh, asking too much or not asking enough.

Cause if you go to, if you're not
reaching out and you're not asking, I

mean, you're, There there's no impetus
for an individual to at least say, or

know that they're being cared for there's
they've got support, but if you're

reaching out and asking too much, could
that not also have the same sort of

effect of having to relive these things
over and over again, as I just grew up.

I'm fine.

I'm good.

Right.

Matt Jenkins: Yeah.

And, uh, you know, I, I always
tread lightly and, and feel out the

conversation because again, if, if
you're having an acute psychological

trauma response to something that is,
that you will never forget, you don't

know what your trigger is going to be
six months, nine months down the road.

Um, and also vicarious
trauma is a thing too, right?

It's something that I was.

I knew it was a thing, but I always
felt that I had a pretty high threshold

for, you know, having really frank
conversations with friends who had

been to files that I didn't go to
and just talking shop essentially.

Um, it's a tough balance because there's a
lot of things I don't need to hear, right.

Even hearing about things that
are, you know, are not nice to

hear about, but you also don't want
to cut that person off because.

If they need to express it because
they're, they're hurting, right?

You don't want to stop them, but
it's a very tough balance to strike

in a group setting, you know, with
that piece or unit, um, one of the

foundational baselines for how that
model is moving forward is, is that when

you're doing your check in phone calls
or sometimes in person geographically,

uh, when, when appropriate.

And if you're doing an in person session
with the team that went to, uh, Um,

some sort of traumatic file, you know,
the kind of the, one of the ground

rules is, is that, okay, today we're
going to get together, uh, we're going

to talk about, um, you're going to
acknowledge the event, you went to a,

You know, an officer involved shooting,
for example, at its worst case, right?

We're not going to talk
about what you did.

We're not going to get into
the details, what you did,

what you saw, what you smelled.

Those are things that are better left
to discuss with a, with a clinician.

But what we are going to talk
about is what your role was, right?

Were you the first member on scene?

Were you physically involved?

Were you the backup member?

Were you, were you sitting in the office
taking a statement and your radio is going

off in your ear and you feel like you let
your team down because you weren't there?

That's a thing too, right?

What was your role?

How is it affecting you?

And now, what have you found
beneficial to move forward?

And being able to then also reel
people in if they start going down

the rabbit hole of, you know, the
sights and smells and things like

that, that can trigger somebody else.

Again, if I'm the guy in the office
who is just putting my duty belt

on and my friends are in a fight
for their lives, I don't need to

know what was happening on scene.

Because that may just exacerbate
my feeling of guilt because

I wasn't out the door.

Right.

If I finished my coffee before
I started my police car.

Oh my gosh.

Why did I do that?

That there's just certain
things you don't need to share.

Hmm.

Interesting.

At some points.

Right.

I don't want to say car wash, but
yeah, there's certain things better

left for a different setting.

Travis Bader: So, and you're mentioning,
so physical, mental, emotional health.

I would say out of the three, physical
would probably be the most important.

Matt Jenkins: I don't think
you can put a value on it.

Um, obviously, yeah,
physically you have to go home.

You have to be physically
alive to go home.

That is important.

But think about the damage,
the dimensional and emotional.

Uh, trauma can cause, right?

That can lead to the physical, right?

That can lead to self
harm or suicide, right?

Um, and also too, the body
doesn't know whether it's,

uh, mental or physical trauma.

If you have that trauma response, the
body just knows trauma is trauma, right?

Of course, there's the physical pain.

Your body knows that you're in a
situation that invokes that fight or

flight response, and the way your brain
perceives it really doesn't differentiate.

So the, the You know, the snowball
effect of, um, what that mental and

emotional trauma can do is that can
lead to, you know, the physical stress

responses, you know, uh, affecting sleep
and weight gain and all those things

can be a by product of that physical.

So, you know, I've sort of contradicted
myself cause yeah, you have to go

home physically, but to not deal
with the other things would be a

disservice to yourself and your peers.

Well,

Travis Bader: and I, this is without
any research, this is just my own

layman's approach at looking at
things, trying to mentally Think

myself into a better mind space or, uh,
mentally use that to help my emotional

responses to whatever I might think.

Be it's pretty impossible for me.

I don't know, maybe some people can do
it, but, uh, for me getting up and going

for a walk, going for a run, taking
care of that physical thing, first

and foremost, the other thing seemed
to follow from there and allows me to

be able to then deal with the mental
and deal with the, uh, the emotional.

But I don't see it the other way around.

I don't see myself trying to work on
myself emotionally or mentally, and then,

okay, now let's go out and I don't see the
same, um, cost benefit as I do of let's

get out and get that heart rate going.

And all of a sudden things start
to click a little bit better and

allows me to do the other one.

So.

I, I don't know if that's a thing or
not, or if that's an ADHD or me thing.

It kind

Matt Jenkins: of goes back
to the power of perspective.

And, you know, for example, I've
had some injuries, uh, and one of

the things that I find is that I
have a tremendous amount of, uh,

difficulty trusting my body, right?

You know, even the prospect sometimes,
luckily I've worked through a lot

of these, uh, issues that I've
sustained from some on duty injuries,

some off duty injuries, and just
the fact that I'm not 15 anymore.

Um, and, So at sometimes the prospect
of I'm going to go for a run today.

And then I start thinking about what if
I get into that run and I start hurting,

what if something creeps back up?

It's a pretty crappy feeling and it really
stalemated me a long time with fitness.

I like being active and it's a part
of that sort of personal wellbeing.

So to, you know, I'm
physically, I'm healed, right?

I've got, I have had great practitioners
that have get and trainers and

coaches that have gotten me back
to the point where I, yes, I know

I can physically trust my body.

I'm no longer injured, but then having
to work through the mental piece

of, Hey, I'm You're not injured.

You need to start trusting your body and
you need to start working back up and

increasing that threshold of physical
training To again learn to trust your

body So it really feeds back and forth,
but the mental piece for me has been

huge over the last couple years But
again, right if you've ever been through

that then you can maybe identify it
with it and if you haven't then it's a

perspective that is just it's Not maybe
not as common as the other way around

Travis Bader: So what do you
find as an effective method for

yourself dealing with that mental

Matt Jenkins: piece?

Um, having lots of good conversations
with peers who are, are, are fit,

who train, um, my physiotherapist
has been phenomenal, right?

Very wise, very smart guy.

Um, does a lot of training
on his own, right.

And be able for him to kind of reinforce
the fact that like, yeah, I'm, I'm working

you and I'm treating you to keep the
maintenance program, to keep me moving.

You're not injured, right?

Go for it.

And that helps the mental side.

Yeah.

It helps the mental side.

If I go him and say, Hey, my knee hurts.

Right.

And he does some diagnostic checks
and he does what he needs to do.

And he says, no, man,
if it hurts, it hurts.

And we can try to figure out
why, but diagnostically go

for a run, see what happens.

And then I go for that
run and I'm like, Hey.

Cool.

Yeah.

And next thing you know, the next
day I'm out and I'm running again,

or I'm wrecking or, or whatever.

So it, yeah, they really do
kind of feed off one another.

And then again, uh, maybe, you know, the
knee hurts again or something else tweaks.

And next thing you know, I'm back
to that place of, okay, the physical

pain is gone, but I feel like I
don't want to test the waters.

Travis Bader: I'm still toying with
this, this idea of ignorance is bliss.

Um, I mean, I, It's like for the
longest time, I had no idea that

what I put in my body, what I ate had
an effect on how I felt afterwards.

I would just eat and maybe I felt
a certain way, like the two things

just didn't correlate to me for
whatever reason, or like, you know,

some, my wife's a chef and she's got
a fantastic palate and I'm eating

stuff like, oh, this is great.

She's like, I don't know, don't you taste?

And she picks up all these little things.

And all of a sudden I'm
thinking about, I'm Yeah.

Okay.

I recognize this now and now it
doesn't taste so great anymore.

Right.

Same thing with physical on my body.

If I, I don't know, I
I've got the ability.

I just turned my head off when I'm hurting
in the, in the body, unless it gets

really bad and my body stops working.

And, um, and I, I don't know if
that's a good thing, I don't know

if it's a bad thing, but the same
thing for mental health, like.

If there's people around you
that are like, oh my God, what a

terrible situation you're just in.

And I, I don't know how you're
able to go through this and they're

reinforcing all of these, all of their
perceptions and negativities about it.

And maybe you're like, I
never thought of it that way.

I never tasted those flavors, right?

Um, I'm, I'm still playing
around with this, this whole

idea of ignorance is maybe bliss.

Matt Jenkins: And to a certain
extent, you're absolutely bang on.

Uh, and again, another one of the things
that, uh, is in that, um, piece or

bottle when we're phoning and checking
in, you're, you're acknowledging

that event, but you also want to
acknowledge that whatever, whatever,

whatever Huge range of feelings or
emotions that person may or may not,

very importantly, may not be feeling.

That's okay.

If I'm phoning you to check in
and you say, Hey, you know what?

Yeah, it wasn't great,
but I feel fine, right?

This isn't the first time
I've been through this or I

have my healthy coping habits.

I have my friends, I have my family,
whatever that they have, to, to

be okay, then, then they're okay.

Right.

And you almost want to give them a
high five because you're like, awesome.

Great.

If things change, of course we, we should
revisit this, but I don't want to, we,

we can't be assuming that people should
be feeling a certain way, or we shouldn't

be assuming that everybody's going to
react the same to something traumatic.

You know, there's, and.

We all kind of have our thing.

There's certain types of files that
may affect me more than my peer.

And there's certain things that,
you know, vice versa, right?

So we just have to acknowledge
the, the range of emotions.

But then the other important thing with
that too, is, is that if you get used

to somebody from a peer support unit
calling you after everything that may

be psychologically triggering, it's
another step in reducing that stigma.

Because if you're like, Oh, I went
to X or Y or Z, I know somebody from.

Um, uh, a peer to peer team
is going to be reaching out.

You become, you expect those phone calls.

Um, if you don't need
any supports, then great.

Right.

Uh, if things change, then
you know where to find us.

But then maybe on the 10th file you've
been to, and this is going to be the

10th check in you're going to get
either in person or over the phone.

Maybe that's the time you do need

Travis Bader: support.

Maybe you're looking forward to it.

Like, when are they going to call?

When are they going to call?

When are they going to

Matt Jenkins: call?

This is bothering me and I don't
know what I have available for help.

Right.

So the fact that you don't have to look
for those answers, you don't have to

feel guilty for asking for support.

I've been to files where, you know,
you get back to the detachment, like,

all right, how's everybody doing?

Is anybody need a debrief?

And you kind of look
at it around the room.

Travis Bader: No one else

Matt Jenkins: wants one.

I'm putting my hand back down.

Right.

And so just, if you know that those things
are in place, you don't have to be the

one when you are having a, A terrible
day, for lack of a better way to put it.

You don't have to be the one
to put yourself out there.

Right.

Because even among trusted
peers, it is a tough thing to do.

Travis Bader: So if we can recognize,
and you said that, you know,

typical Mountie thing, I'm fine.

Right.

I'd say that's typical in a lot

Matt Jenkins: of groups, right?

Not just Mounties.

We didn't, we didn't patent the term.

Travis Bader: Um, if we can recognize.

That very often people are
just going to say, I'm fine.

No, things are good.

Right.

All right.

You guys receive training on
like nonverbal paraverbal type

cues that you might be able to
pick up on that indicators that

maybe the person isn't fine.

Matt Jenkins: Yeah.

I mean, um, Just going back to
our training, even at depo, right?

When you're as green as it gets and
you're wearing your stupid little blue

cadet epaulettes at Regina, freezing when
it's minus 85, body language is huge.

And again, this isn't
unique to policing, right?

If you've, if you're, if you're, if you
like interacting with people physically

through conversation or even if it watched
a movie ever in your life, the things

that can be betrayed silently are huge,
but we still can't force people, right?

Like, you know, if I,
well, yeah, I'm fine.

Yeah.

I'm good.

Right.

To, to, to proak and to prod, all I'm
going to do is probably annoy that person.

Right.

Um, so that's when you have
to kind of shift into like,

okay, you know, are they fine?

Well, probably not.

Right.

But all I have to do is trust that.

If I say, okay, hey, you know what?

I'm happy to hear you're fine.

Um, I'm going to send you an
email and it's going to have

all your, your benefits, your
access to psychological support.

I'm going to pass off our email
proxy and our phone number should

you need to reach back out.

Um, and I just want to acknowledge
the fact that it's okay to be fine.

You don't have to feel anything
after this and just reinforce that.

However, their feelings, okay, even if
they're not being honest and also too,

with that stigma still existing, it might
take some time and it's entirely possible

that they don't know what they're feeling.

Right.

You're upside down and backwards and
you're like, what did I just see?

What did I just do?

I don't know what.

What,

Travis Bader: how am I,
yeah, how do you process it?

You know, in line with the whole
ignorance is bliss thinking that,

uh, I've been toying around.

I also look at, uh, societal perception.

I think a lot of times, uh, people can
have psychological and mental issues

based on how they feel others around
them are perceiving it or the societal,

I think you, I mean, you You think of
the, uh, the age old Vietnam veterans

coming back and shell shock and PTSD
and all the things that were just kind

of new at the time, or at least new
terms, um, they weren't being greeted

back with hugs and high fives, right?

They weren't being greeted back as tragic.

Because society is looking at any, all
of a sudden, all these things that these

people left to do, that they felt they're
doing their best and risking their lives

in order to help and do the good thing.

And they're coming back and everyone's
kind of turning their back on them.

I think that may have a far more.

Uh, detrimental psychological, uh,
consequence than, than the actual

event itself, because then you start
thinking about the event and start

ruminating on it and going back through
it, and maybe I should have done

things differently as opposed to people
that could have been through the same

situation or were welcome back as heroes.

And thank you so much.

And it was terrible, but
it needed to be done.

I think the, the whole societal
perspective is, uh, plays a very big role

Matt Jenkins: in this.

You know, I, I had a, I, every time
I'm down and I have some free time,

uh, I, I try to always get into my old
high school, um, and just, you know,

go to, you know, Steve's classroom
where he has kids and say, Hey, I'm

here, ask me some questions, right?

Or don't, I don't really care.

I'm just happy to go be that
sort of community presence.

And I did it in at home as well,
being the school liaison for high

school for, uh, just about five years.

And I had interaction with a
couple, uh, students yesterday

and they had, Great questions.

Right.

Cause you know, they were asking
me, you know, how do you deal

with what you see on the job?

And I said, man, I'm just a human.

I'm just a guy just like you.

I'm not putting this uniform on doesn't
remove my empathy or my sense to feel.

Right.

Um, and I thought it would give a
couple of really mature questions

for coming from some high school
kids, essentially of, you know, how

do you deal with what you've seen?

How do you deal with what you're done?

Right.

Have you had certain types of
interactions with people and being

able to say like, yeah, I have.

And it was not great, but You know what?

These are my supports.

And more importantly, here's
how you can apply these same

things to your life, right?

Just because I'm a police officer doesn't
mean that you can't apply the things that

I do to when you have a bad day at school,
because a bad day is a bad day, right?

Some are worse than others, but who
am I to judge what they're feeling?

So, you know, talking about those,
you know, things that I do, staying

hobby heavy, being physically active,
having an amazing spouse, who's, who's

my biggest fan and supporter, having
friends that I can talk to, um, who

aren't in law enforcement is great.

And if they have, If they can apply
those things to any aspect of their

life or future careers, then hopefully
that's a nugget that I've given

them that they can carry forward.

Yeah.

Travis Bader: Putting the uniform
on doesn't make you superhuman in

the same way we all learned as kids,
wearing a cape doesn't mean you can

Matt Jenkins: fly.

Yeah.

Right.

It was probably a shattered
roof or two that seen kids

that learned that the hard way.

Um, and, uh, but even too, as, um, you
know, You know, peer to peer, right?

I think that we,

when we're, um, interacting with
folks after an event, um, You

know, we need to just be completely
judgment free again, what they're

feeling, what they're not feeling.

And that it's interesting.

You know, you, you'd asked me, this is
where the ADD brain of mine came in.

Cause you asked me what I was just
down for now, and I was talking

about something I did in November,
but trust me, there's a connection.

Uh, so the course I was just doing
last week, um, Was what we call

the national reintegration program.

And I want to preface this by saying,
um, proactive support response

team, national reintegration.

I can't take any credit for
anything because I was a

candidate in these courses, right?

People way smarter with
way more experience than me

have developed these things.

All I've done is be on the
winning end of learning from

these people to help my people.

Right.

Which is everybody in policing
is one of your people, right?

And every time something tragic happens,
you're reminded that just because

you didn't know somebody doesn't
mean they're not one of your people.

So, you know, to have that, um, that, that
piece or piece to be able to, um, see what

your peers need after a critical incident
in that, that, um, imminent stage.

But then too, with the reintegration
program now, um, Employees who have

been off work, uh, whether it's from a
critical incident, whether it's from,

um, any sort of suspension, whether
it's from even a matter of pat leave,

if they're having some anxiety about
getting into the workplace to have this

really open ended program to be like,
what do you need from peers to make you

more comfortable back at the workplace?

Do you want to go to the range?

Do you want to stand outside the
range and hear a gun going off?

And then maybe you get a little
closer and then maybe you

stand next to me when I shoot.

So you're re acclimated to that sound.

Let's go to the range, right?

Are you having anxiety over
body image because you went

off and you've gained weight?

Let me order your new duty belt for you.

Um, if you've lost faith in your
team and the organization, let's

do something team building, let's,
let's go to an escape room, right?

You mentioned that.

Anything, anything that you need, it,
it, it was a phenomenal program and

putting that affected member first
when we're surrounded by red tape

in a, in any, Large organization.

It was a really a breath of fresh air.

And again, the more we're learning last
week, the more I'm thinking of Friends

and partners and peers that I've had
that I'm like what an absolute Tragedy

that people that I know in respect to
are now retired Could this have prevented

them from retiring if they're done with
policing they're done with policing But

so many people who could benefit from
things like this To put them first in the

organization to get them back to work to
look at them as a person and not a tool.

To empower them to get back to what
they hopefully still like to do.

Travis Bader: And this might be a
two part thing, but you mentioned

before, one of the tools that
you use is to be hobby heavy.

Oh yeah.

What do you mean by that?

Matt Jenkins: Um, yeah, so, um, My
personal identity of Matt is so much more

important to me than Constable Jenkins.

I even just kind of cringe
whenever somebody calls me that.

I always introduce myself as Matt,
just about 90 percent of the time.

Um, I love what I do.

Uh, and Let's make no mistake.

I love what I do.

I want to do anything else and
I've had some amazing opportunities

with some amazing people.

But at some point I'm going to hand that
badge and that gun in, and I'm going to

walk out a door and it's going to be done.

Right.

And somebody, hopefully we've got our,
uh, resource levels up a little bit.

So hopefully there's somebody taking my
place the day I walk out that door at the

end of my career and that organization,
the gears are going to keep turning.

Right.

Right.

So what I'm doing now to preserve my
personal identity through being hobby

heavy and having true passions is a
very important investment in myself.

Um, uh, a fella who I worked with early
in my career, who I have a tremendous

amount of respect for, he actually
took the core examiner course from you.

Um, he told me Was this

Travis Bader: just recently?

A year ago.

Here you go.

Okay.

Yeah.

I ran a class of new
examiners through a couple of

Matt Jenkins: months ago.

Oh, it would have been longer than that.

I want to say within the last 18 months,
probably within a year and 18 months ago.

Um, he'll remain nameless, but I hope
that, you know, that when I'm sharing,

I hope, I hope he hears it and I hope
he gets, it puts a smile on his face.

Cause again, the impact
he's had on me is huge.

And he says, you know, There's a
lot of similarities between you and

I, you like to shoot, you like to
train, you are so keen on learning

everything that this job has to give.

He says, but Hey, here's
another piece of commonality.

We both love hunting.

I was a guide.

I guided for years.

All I do now, the closest thing I do
to hunting anymore, and the closest

I've done to hunting in years is
shooting animals on the side of the

road when they've been hit by a car.

Don't be me.

Fight for your hobbies and fight
for your friends who are not in this

organization, because when that day comes
that you have a terrible day and you

need to take some time away, or you're
floundering a little bit, you need to

have that identity and those connections
because that will reinforce that there's

more to you than the uniform you wear.

Travis Bader: That makes
a hell of a lot of sense.

Yep.

See, when I first looked
at that being hobby heavy.

My mind originally went to a hobby that is
going to be tied in with some sort of, uh,

social aspect, social aspect outside of
perhaps what you're doing, but it doesn't

necessarily have to have that social

Matt Jenkins: aspect.

It certainly helps, you know, going
to, uh, Red mountain and riding the

chairlift in the singles line all day.

I'm skiing.

So I'm having fun, but I, uh,
anything you do with, with, with close

friends is 10 times what it is by

Travis Bader: yourself.

You see that Harvard study, the 80
year study where they, uh, log people

from different, um, regions, different
ethnic backgrounds, different, uh,

nationalities, different genders, right.

And they try and get this,
uh, It's the longest study on

happiness that's ever been done.

Matt Jenkins: I haven't, I'd
be interested to see it though.

Travis Bader: Okay.

The end result of that was the
number one predictor for happiness

in people across the entire spectrum
with strong social connections.

Yeah, I could see it.

Yeah.

And it boils down to how integrated
are you with other people?

And do they have your back?

Do you have their back or your
relationships, just likes and hearts

and thumbs up on, on Instagram, right?

Or are they sitting down face to face
and having some real conversations?

That's your number one predictor.

Are you able to have
strong social connections?

And I'm reading this study and
it's got a comment section and the

huge number of people that say.

I wish I had a connection.

I wish I had somebody
else I could reach out to.

So many people.

I don't have a good friend
that I can, I can talk

Matt Jenkins: to.

It's, it's sad to hear, right?

I, and I, my friends
have made me who I am.

Um, you know, I've got incredible friends.

I don't feel worthy of their
friendship most days and I

wouldn't trade them for it.

And it's my best group of
friends came from high school.

Um, my, I met my wife in grade nine
and now most of her friends are

now married to most of my friends.

So it's, it's unique, but, uh, yeah,
the fact that, you know, like I said,

19 years ago was the last time I
rode the woodlot in Maple Ridge with

my best friend, Dan and Steve, who
I'm staying with Dan this weekend.

We still hunt together and he's
still my best friend is, is awesome.

And I wouldn't trade that for anything.

Um, Not to discount the friends I've
made through work because I have

incredible peers and there are people
that have truly turned into lifelong

friends that started with policing.

Um, but yeah, I just, I cherish the,
those old friendships are irreplaceable.

Travis Bader: When you hunt,
do you typically solo hunt or

are you hunting with others?

Matt Jenkins: Hunting with others.

Um, size of the group.

Uh, it varies, you know, like when
we go on our, our almost annual elk

trip, it could be eight, 10 guys, but
we're not all hunting together because.

Right.

I mean, it's something to be said
for hounding, sounding like a herd

of elk, but it's not productive.

Right.

Uh, kind of my tagline is when I'm hunting
alone, it's for participation points.

It's me looking at a K it's a nice day.

I only have, how many more
Septembers do I have in me?

Lots, but not a lot at the same time.

Right.

Um, I just need to go do something, right?

I need to go drive up a road, hopefully
not come nose to nose with a grizzly bear.

And if I see or hear critters, great.

But if not, I can watch
YouTube for the other 11 months

out of the year this month.

I need to get after it.

Right.

But my, I'm doing it for
the sake of doing it.

But again, when you're sharing that
experience with your friends, again,

like we've talked about a couple
of times already, that's truly what

makes that experience more special.

Right.

And again, my desire to go skiing and
mountain biking alone, the same thing.

I'm not going to pass up a nice day when
you're hooting and hollering down a trail

with friends like we were this morning.

It's just smile.

My face is authentic, right?

You can't replicate it.

So

Travis Bader: the positive mental
health aspects that you get from

being in the outdoors or from hunting,
where is that derived from for you?

Matt Jenkins: Just doing something that I
have a tremendous amount of passion for.

Right.

Um, Um, and passion at the
most basic level of just out

there learning, being present.

Um, I think that's why hunting is
one of the reasons, there's a million

reasons, but one of the reasons why
I do appreciate it is, is that, uh,

it forces me to be present and it's
interesting hunting with folks.

Cause, uh, again, being ADD and having
my brain doing 90 things at once, people

have said like, you know, they watch
me when I'm walking through the woods.

I slowly, I start hunting and I
slowly just end up walking as I

start thinking about Everything else,
but actually hunting and next thing

you know, I'm trampling around, not
being quiet, not looking around.

And then I just like snap myself back.

Like, Hey, dummy.

We're here for a reason.

It's not to go for a walk, right?

Let's be present.

Let's, let's look and, and
have that just be present.

What style

Travis Bader: of hunting do you typically,
uh, find yourself defaulting to?

I know some people love to still hunt
and some people just love to lay up.

And, uh, what do you find?

Some people just drive
the logging roads, right?

And not, not looking down on or up to any
of these, but everyone's got their style.

What, what do you find is
most effective for you?

And then what do you find
is, uh, most meaningful

Matt Jenkins: for you?

Um, The harder you work, the more,
the more you feel like you've earned

what you have come home with or not,
even if it's just a memory, you're

still coming home for something.

Uh, there's a time and
a place for everything.

Um, my in laws have a
cabin up in, uh, 330.

So that'd be the Clinton Loon,
uh, Loon Lake Kashkuk area.

And a lot of times hunting there
is driving because the terrain is.

In my opinion, obviously this
isn't fact more productive just

to see a lot of ground, right?

Sure.

Um, it, you had some fires, you've
had a lot of hunting pressure.

Um, so for, for, to me, walk through
the woods, walking through the woods

and rolling terrain, that's when
I get bored and my brain wanders.

Um, as opposed to, again,
driving and covering ground.

Mm-hmm.

It can't be more productive.

But I also get terribly bored of that.

Two or three days in, I'm like, I don't
want to sit in the driver's seat anymore.

Um, I love mountain hunting, uh, which
is really funny because my first couple

of years of hunting, when I was still,
uh, let's say building some grit, the

last thing I wanted to do was go uphill.

I'm like, you're not dragging
me up that hill, the more

colorful expletives in there.

But there's a story that still hangs over
my head that I will never, will never

be forgotten among certain circles about
the first time on my first elk hunt.

Okay.

Let's hear it.

All right.

Dragging me up a hill
was a difficult task.

Travis Bader: Kicking and screaming

Matt Jenkins: the entire way.

Yeah, not quite.

Not quite.

I was, I was 19 years old.

So I, yeah, no, I, you, no, not
quite kicking and screaming,

but I wasn't happy about it.

I didn't know what I was getting into.

Um, and you know, now.

It's not to say that if
you're not physically exerting

yourself, it's not worth doing.

That's not the point I'm making at all.

Because there's a lot of people
who physically can't hunt that way.

And for me to discredit their experiences
would be incredibly selfish and just

But, uh, you know, back in November,
um, had, you know, a weekend away.

I was down here for that course.

We left and we went up, uh, drove up
in the interior for four or five hours.

We hunted all day on Saturday and
Sunday morning and drove home.

And all we did was just
find the nastiest animal.

You know, nastiest places to hike into.

And it's what we did and I
loved every second of it.

Right.

Um, from a productivity standpoint,
going to places that other people aren't

willing to go means you're probably
going to see more critters too, but the

places you end up when you're suffering
and dying and you're going to pill,

and then you look around and you're
like, Oh, Yeah, this view is worth it.

And the story of course
is, is something special.

Travis Bader: No, I remember years ago,
I was probably griping about something,

a friend of mine, who's offered a lot
of business advice over the years, he's

run a lot of very successful businesses.

He just looks at me and laughs.

He says, Travis, one thing
I've learned in my life is.

Is that nothing that I've received that I
can deem as worthwhile has ever come easy.

And I think that just
kind of sums it up for me.

It doesn't necessarily
mean physically exerting.

But without effort, you
don't have that same reward.

Matt Jenkins: No, you don't
feel like you've earned it.

Yeah.

I don't anyways.

I agree.

That's not to be said that I'm always, I'm
not going to pass up an easy opportunity

if it presents itself sometimes from
driving on the road and there's a

legal elk there, then I'm not going to
have to sweat and cry about to get to,

um, don't tempt me with a good time.

But at the same time, uh, you know, I'm
I, I've said to that experience would

be a little bit lacking too, right?

Gonna take it if it comes up, but, uh, you
know, when I look at the effort I put in,

in other areas and come out unsuccessful,
I guess it would be kind of ironic of all

of a sudden I see something that I can't
pass up standing in the middle of the

road, but, uh, it's never what I count
on and it's never what I'm looking for.

Right.

Where'd you get that hat?

So, uh, my, uh, trainer, she
ran a gym in the West Kootenays.

Um, her, uh, partner is now starting
to make some hunting content.

Uh, I'm a sucker for supporting local
and, um, He said, Hey, you want a hat?

I'm like, sure, I'll wear it.

So here we are.

So he's, uh, no official affiliation,
uh, wearing it, isn't a plug.

It's just because it was the hat
that was in the car and, uh, he's got

horses and he, you know, basically
wants to document some hunts and do

it from the lens of between the ears
of a horse and also being BC resident

hunter doing a DIY, because I don't
know about you, but I don't personally

know many, uh, Resident hunters who are
completely self sufficient with horses

without, again, using somebody else.

I'm really looking forward to
seeing what he comes up with.

Um, and again, back to kind of
the mentorship piece, I was able

to take, um, um, me and, and
her partner, Brad to the range.

And, you know, Brad says, I've been
hunting forever, but I've never

been really much of a shooter.

Um, man, I just did her core last year.

She's just got her pal.

She got a Tikka for Christmas.

And I said, cool, let's
go to the range, right?

Let's kind of get you set up for success.

And when you shoot long enough, you just,
You learn a thing or two along the way.

So to be able to go to the range with
them, I had a ton of fun and we spent

a couple hours and went from, you know,
here's how you set your rifle in sandbags

and here's how you position yourself
behind the gun to watching men hit steel

consistently at 300 yards away, which some
people are like, well, that's chip shot.

But remember where you started from.

Even a hundred yards
is a long way at times.

Right.

So pretty cool.

Right.

So that's Forged in the Wild.

Yeah, Forged in the Wild.

That's Brad's, uh, um, Brad's, I guess
you could say side hustle, passion

project, however you want to put it.

Cause

Travis Bader: I've seen that popping
around a little bit and I just, uh,

figured I'd get a little backstory.

I figured you were
wearing it for a reason.

No,

Matt Jenkins: genuinely, no, it was
either that or the faded RCMP hat

that's sitting on my dashboard and
we'll leave that one in the car.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like that joke, I had a guy in
the class years ago, I remember I was

teaching and I like to start every
course off with introductions, right?

I want to see a person's background.

I want to get to know them.

What's their name?

Why are you taking this course?

What kind of experience do
you have in this field, right?

And I do that for two reasons.

Number one, it gives me an idea.

If I've got a class full of experts
in there, I'm not going to be teaching

a course down here and vice versa.

If everyone's brand new, then it allows
me to gauge it, but it also provides an

opportunity for everybody in the class
to have the spotlight put on them instead

of being in there with their arms crossed
and sitting back in their chair and

looking up and all right, instructor,
how are you going to impress me?

Okay.

It, it draws them in and it creates
more of a, um, an interactive

environment right off the bat.

Anyways, I asked this guy and first
thing he says, well, you know,

my name is so and so, and I'm a
firefighter and then something else.

And I say, well, you know how you
can tell a firefighter, right?

And.

All of a sudden his face just changes.

Just

Matt Jenkins: like a
vegan and a crossfitter.

Travis Bader: And his face changes
and the class is like, how?

I'm like, oh, don't worry about it.

Matt Jenkins: Yeah, you missed the

Travis Bader: joke.

But the punchline on the joke,
how can you fire, how can you

tell a person is a firefighter?

Don't worry.

They'll tell you.

Yeah.

We're in the RCMP cap in here.

How can you tell your RCMP?

Oh, don't worry.

You got the kit, he'll tell you.

But, um, yeah, probably a good call.

Cool looking cap.

Matt Jenkins: Yeah.

Thank you.

I, again, I'm, if, uh, if it
wasn't cool, I wouldn't wear it.

So it's, uh, it was an unintentional
plug and I, I I'm, I'm looking forward

to suiting what he comes up with.

Travis Bader: Is there anything
else that we should be talking

Matt Jenkins: about?

No, talk about core instruction a
little bit, that journey for me.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Okay.

Let's hear that one.

Cause I remember when he became a
core instructor, because I saw you

all over, I never met Jeff, but you
had your name as your, uh, as your

handle on the different forums.

Yeah.

And, um, you're still up there, not very
incognito in your name change, by the way.

That's what it is.

Um, Is what it is.

But I remember, man, I was like,
who is this guy and look at the

amount of passion that he has.

I mean, so passionate.

And, uh, I remember that was the one thing
that struck me when I saw it over and

over again, going through there really
has a lot of heart in this, what he does.

So tell me about your,
your journey through.

As a

Matt Jenkins: core instructor,
it was fairly organic.

I didn't even seek it out.

To be honest with you.

I, uh, uh, did my courses from a fella
named Ken Archibald out of Colorado.

I lived in Langley and took his courses
solely as a matter of proximity.

Right.

Um, so.

And, uh, kind of fast forward a
little bit after that, I worked at

Wholesale Sports, um, ended up, you
know, migrating behind the hunting

counter, running the hunting section.

And I remember Ken had become
a customer, he'd be buying,

come and buying stuff for him.

He'd bring students in and, and, you
know, sort of, uh, you know, walk them

through purchasing a gun, which is
awesome because how intimidating it

can be to be on the other side of that
counter and really not knowing much and.

And, you know, wanting to get the
best product to, to get you set up.

And, you know, at some point he says,
you know, like I've, I've really come

to respect your opinion and bring here.

And I come in to see you and I tell
people coming to, to see you, um, the

way you provide knowledge to people
across a gun counter, I think you

could do the same in the classroom.

Would you ever thought
about being a core examiner?

Well, no, fast forward again, there
it was in, uh, April of, 2013, uh, 22

years old, had no business getting my
core instructor number, but there I

was and, um, started working with Kent,
started teaching the course for him.

And what first started with essentially
following his curriculum, right?

Fantastic teacher, tons of passion.

Um, and then.

Agreed to disagree on certain things, but
his heart was always in the right place

and the jokes, the laughs, the organic
connection we had with the students.

I always really appreciated that.

And as I was teaching and becoming
more confident, more comfortable

interjecting my own stories and jokes
and things, I really took it to heart

of if you're paying to be here, How
can I give you the best product?

Right.

I hated thinking of teaching as a product,
but essentially it is, it is a service.

It is a service.

Right.

Right.

So that's when looking at the forums,
like, you know, if you were sending your.

Your 10 year old son, daughter, and you're
again, you're, you're putting your faith

in that person to set them up for success.

How do, how do, how do I ensure
you're getting your money's worth?

Right.

And getting a lot of that input
and taking notes and really

taking it to heart was great.

Um, I still pass out at the end of the
week, you know, your stereotypical,

you know, one to five rating.

How was the course?

This, that, and the other,
what can we do better?

What did you like?

Don't teach a lot anymore,
but I still, I read every one.

Yeah.

Would

Travis Bader: you pass it
out before the test or after

Matt Jenkins: the test?

Uh, I passed it out with the exam and
I said, don't put your name on this.

There isn't a spot for
your name on this form.

Don't leave it in your test package.

When it comes back to me, I want you
to feel confident that this is as

anonymous as you want to make it.

And I'm not going to review
these until I get home.

And I've kept every single
one, um, mostly good, obviously

some bad, but such as life.

Did

Travis Bader: you find value in those?

Because quite often I would
find people, Oh, it was great.

Oh, it was awesome.

But they don't have anything
to really compare it

Matt Jenkins: to.

If they didn't put handwritten comments
and they just did the, you know, the

one to five, they meant nothing to
me because it was usually, you know,

Threes or fives or whatever, right?

It's all very perception based.

But if I read a comment and it
said, uh, you know, whatever, right.

I would take it to heart, right?

If I'm noticing a theme, um, if I was,
you know, sure, I have my cheat sheet

and I'm ticking boxes as I'm teaching
to make sure I hit the relevant points,

but sometimes something gets missed
and you're going, oh, this came up on

the test and I really don't think you
covered it that well, mental note.

Cover X or Y or Z better.

Cause you're noticing that trend.

So I'd say kind of 50, 50, but enough of
a benefit that I continued to do them.

And then, yeah, so that was my
journey of teaching core, um,

that a huge passion for it.

Um, the thing I found though,
is, is working with Kent, he

had a, had a classroom, all
kinds of mounts on the wall.

You know, you could point around the
room, this is, this your birds, here's

your, any critter you could want in BC.

It was there.

Yeah.

Moving away, trying to do my own
thing, not enough business where

I am to, you know, lease any,
anywhere and do it full time.

And honestly with, with the job, probably
not something that I really could have

done with the same degree of passion.

Right.

So to go to, um, you know, rent the
conference room, having a contracting

out to educational facilities and
basically doing it out of a couple

of rubbermaid totes, bringing in
some, uh, antlers and some dead heads

that have been acquired and donated.

It wasn't the level, it wasn't.

The quality of product that I was used to.

So really quickly, my passion to
do it, it just dropped off, right?

So I, I love doing it.

Um, I, I love providing it to
friends, to family, you know, if

you want to challenge the exam.

Um, you know, we'll do it, uh, if I have a
group together and I have the right venue,

I've done it at a couple of gun clubs,
which, you know, if we've ever been in a

gun club, a clubhouse, they're rustic, but
it kind of lends back to, again, you've

got the, you know, the scuzzy old, uh,
faded mountain goat on the wall and stuff.

So at least there's stuff
to point out, right?

I enjoy classes like that.

Uh, but just, you know, to go to the
best Western and say, I need your,

your, your 25 seat banquet room.

Nah, no interest really.

And yeah, I was lucky,
uh, Kent and I for years.

For years, we, we got to go for hunt.

We got to go for hunt.

But of course, with us teaching,
the fall was the busy time.

Yeah.

Did you ever hunt with him?

Once.

Yeah.

After years of when he was
away, I'd be teaching when I

was away, he'd be teaching.

So finally the stars aligned back,
uh, right before I went to depo.

So really when our paths in life were
diverging, ultimately permanently, I was

able to get away for a weekend with him.

We, we got a four point and at all
the hunts I've been on and the amazing

memories I've made that full circle
piece was, A memory I'll cherish forever.

Right.

That's pretty cool.

Travis Bader: I remember one year, uh,
Kent put out an advertisement and it

was like full page advertising either.

I know the one.

I know where this is going.

You know where this is going?

I think it said like voted number one
in, in BC and I remember calling him up.

I've talked with him like, Where
the hell were you voted number one?

Like, what, what was
this whole thing about?

He's like, well, I don't know.

My mom said I was pretty good
or something along those lines,

Matt Jenkins: right?

It was probably me and
Kent BSing after a class.

Well, we think we're pretty good at this.

Let's say we're number one.

Who's going to say no?

Well, hi Travis.

Travis Bader: That was so funny.

I'm like, what is this voting thing?

Like, I don't, I don't get this, right?

That was, I thought that was funny.

Um, um, um, yeah.

Interesting.

Interesting to community and the industry.

It's, um, it's different
than I see in the States.

In the States, you go to Marty Hayes's
school, firearms Academy in Seattle.

And he says, here's what I do.

Here's why I do it.

Here's why I think it's great.

But you know what?

There's other people in town.

Why don't you go down the
road and talk to, go to a

Thunder Ranch and go over here.

And you know what?

If you find something that works better,
come back to me and then let me know.

And we'll see if we can integrate it.

There's this sort of brotherhood or
camaraderie that, that we seem to see

that's, uh, uh, really prevalent here.

What I've seen in Canada is
there's a, sort of this prestige

that people think they have.

Like I, I took a two day course.

I got a firearms license, right?

I got my hunting license and
look out if you're an instructor.

Now you're really special, right?

Yeah.

And oftentimes, not always, but a lot
of times there's sort of a dog eat

dog, maybe it's a lower barrier to
entry industry, but the competition,

I think gets ahead of some people.

And in order to be competitive, they
want to tear down those around it.

Cause there's two ways you can
have the tallest building, right?

Build the tallest building.

Knock everybody down.

Or knock all the other ones down and
that knock them down attitude that

I've seen time and time again, I don't
see the same in other industries.

And maybe that's just business.

Maybe that's how everyone operates.

But, um, I I've, I've looked at it and
I look at it as an industry that, uh,

hunting everyone's like, oh, they're
trying to take our hunting rights away.

Firearms.

Oh, they're trying to take our guns.

And they're feeling attacked
on all these different angles.

And I don't know if it's sort of, this is
how we even the playing field is this, the

mountain hunters will look down on the,
on the truck hunters, the, uh, black rifle

shooters will look down on the, um, the
muzzle loaders or whatever it might be,

but that sort of, um, mentality I've seen.

A lot.

Nobody wins.

No, they don't.

And I've seen it a lot.

And that was part of the reason why
I started the Silvercore podcast,

because I reached a point within,
uh, my business where I just saw

negativity over and over and over again.

And I thought, should I look at
getting into a different industry?

Or is there a way that I can
bring some positivity into a realm

of what I know and what I love?

And so that, that whole aspect of trying
to bring positivity and growth to others,

and I've just broadened it out into all
of my different ADHD kind of interests.

Um, I don't know, it is, is from an
instructor, from your perspective,

is that what you've seen as well?

Matt Jenkins: I, I think, I remember
when I was teaching a lot, um, my sense

of competitiveness wasn't coming from
the place of I want to be the, the

guy, because that's silly, but I took
a huge amount of pride in, um, just

being, I guess, grounded in my approach
to instructing, and I say it, Anybody

who's been around me for a while,
and I've imparted some knowledge on,

I say, don't trust any one person's
opinion, including my own, right?

If I tell you something about maybe a
piece of glass or a gun or a particular

hunting thing, go and test it and
validate it and pressure test that

against other people's opinions, right?

So if you notice a trend, am I fighting
against the, you know, and same goes

for again, any instructor, any, you
know, Any person again, but there's

some obvious exceptions to this.

People who are true savants
and artisans of their craft.

Yeah, there are, you know, validate
people's opinions and, um, Yeah.

Pressure test what you're hearing.

Right?

And again, but this goes back to me again,
me trying to be grounded in my approach.

If somebody comes to my class
and says, what gun should I buy?

And I said, well, you got to get
yourself a 264 windbag because

that's my preferred rifle.

Anybody knows anything about
the 264 windbags like you.

No, don't go buy one of those.

I will never buy another one again, but
I love the gun I have, but because I

love it, it's just not the right tool
for the job for most folks, right?

So being able to separate your bias or
your preferences to what needs to be done.

The needs of the individual is something
that I took very seriously and I guess it

started from working, uh, in a business
selling those things to say, well, this

is what I shoot and here's kind of my
preference and here's what I'm doing.

But let's look at things that may
fit the bill for you a bit better.

Right.

Um, so kind of that's, I, I sort of
took ownership over giving that high

quality product and not displaying a
lot of bias or being grounded enough to

look at other people's experiences or
what they needed, which may not be what

I needed and be able to say, okay, this
is what I shoot, but this isn't for you.

This is maybe what you should
be doing or buying or trying.

Um, but at the end of the day, no, like
nobody wins by knocking anybody else down.

Right.

And just sit and have a
conversation with you of what I've

learned and what you've learned.

Um, there's tremendous
value in that for everybody.

Travis Bader: You know, it brings to mind.

I remember when I was kind of getting
into mountaineering, just like,

like hiking and I'd rock climb and
I would be out in the mountains.

I'd do stuff, but not from a serious
sort of mountaineering standpoint.

And a friend of mine just
got out of the British army.

He was, um, working with special forces
to do the SAS selection a couple of times.

And so I'm like, I better get myself
kind of sorted out before going out

and doing some hikes and getting
into the mountains with them.

He's now a full fledged ACMG
guide and doing well with that.

And, um, I started asking around
what, What, what are the best boots?

Like I need a good pair of boots, right?

The ones that fit you.

Right.

And they say, Oh, get some Danners.

Danners are the best, right?

You know, okay.

So I go buy some Danners and
remember the first hike we went

out and I learned two things.

Number one, boot recommendations, like
a lot of things are very, very personal

and what might be best for that person
definitely wasn't the best for me.

And my, my feet took weeks.

I was in flip flops for weeks
afterwards because they were just.

My, when I was pouring out the rain,
it was all red and blood coming out.

It was, it was so bad.

But the other thing that I learned on
that one, which I thought was kind of

interesting, which ties in with this
mental health thing as well, that, um,

is kind of the theme of what we wanted to
talk about was, okay, this guy, special

force working with them, um, tough guy,
who's, I can't complain on this hike.

And I'm like, my feet are bleeding
and I know this short way into it.

And this was a long, long go and cold.

And anyways, uh, there was me, him and
one other fellow and this other fellow,

I remember at one point he was like, oh,
I'm kind of hungry or I'm kind of cold.

And he's piping up and I'm like, whoo, I
sure as hell wouldn't be saying anything.

Right.

I don't want to look like that.

And this guy turns around and says,
okay, stop, administrate yourself.

And I thought, okay,
that's kind of interesting.

Right.

He's like, just brew, brew up some tea.

Right.

Fix your socks, fix your boots.

Right.

Um, get, get a jacket on if you're cold.

Right.

And so I'm quickly, and I was
a little chilly as well, and

it was freezing weather out.

So I'm putting my jacket on, but it's
cause this other guy put his hand up.

Right.

And, and, uh, all of a sudden the dark
place that my head was in as I'm hiking

up and cold and hurt and, and in pain, um,
I'm feeling It's not, it's not so dark.

I can, I'm in pain.

My feet hurt and everything else, but
I'm not going into hypothermia anymore.

And this whole approach of not
trying to be the tough guy, stop,

administrate yourself because
we're in it for the long haul.

Right.

And that little piece of information,
Which other people may have picked up

in their youth and I didn't pick up
until I was in my twenties or whenever

that was, um, I've tied over into my
physical health, into my mental health.

Okay.

I recognize something.

I'm going to stop.

I know where I want to go.

Quick admin back on the road.

Here I go.

Two things I brought up out of that one.

So I agree.

Don't trust just cause one caliber
works for you and you loved it.

It's

Matt Jenkins: not going
to work for everyone.

Yeah.

I mean, and, and, and gun specifically,
you're one of those funny ones where if,

if you're asking me questions long enough
about, you know, gun a versus or caliber

a versus, you'll contradict yourself,
you end up contradicting yourself and

not accidentally and not because you're
flip flopping just because if there

was one that reigns supreme, then why
would we have a new one every week?

That's right.

Ron Spomer would be out of work.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Travis Bader: This is it.

It's the one, one

Matt Jenkins: cartridge.

This is the one to rule them all.

But that's what we hear every week.

Travis Bader: Right.

I love it.

I saw you writing something

Matt Jenkins: down there.

Just to, just to close in comment, uh,
just on the topic of mental health,

but we'll leave that be till we're,
if we're, when we're wrapping up.

Travis Bader: Well, is there anything
else we should be talking about?

Matt Jenkins: I don't think so.

Um, Yeah, like it, uh, I've,
I've got tremendous friends.

Hunting's been tremendous.

My, my career's been fantastic.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Uh, um, I'm feeling very fortunate that
I've had the opportunity to put myself

in a position with developing instructor
profiles and all these courses to, to,

to, uh, To really do the work to increase,
you know, the odds of physical, mental,

and emotional survivability of my peers
and putting myself in a position where

that is becoming a huge passion of mine
to see people be successful, right?

From, you know, the firearms instructor
realm to having the post critical

incident to getting them back to work,
there is a lot of that full circle.

Ideally, I would never have to, you know,
use a lot of those skills, but being able

to hopefully impart knowledge on people
in different realms is, is amazing.

And I'm thankful I've had the
opportunity to, and yeah, that's just it.

And again, on the topic of
mental health, the resources

out there, um, wellnesstogether.

ca is one that comes to,
comes to mind for everybody.

Um, If you're in the RCMP and the
Canadian forces, there's a lot of

specific ones that I won't go into
because we have a very diverse audience,

but I'm really hoping that something
I've said identifies with folks and.

And whether it's mentorship or mental
health or anything, it's just, yeah,

I hope people find value in this.

Cause that's the game.

Travis Bader: I'm going to put links
to all these things that you've

talked about in here, in the podcast
description, uh, I'll put a link

to your, uh, your social media.

If people want to reach out.

And I'm pretty

Matt Jenkins: boring on social

Travis Bader: media, but
Matt, I know this is our first

aired, second recorded podcast.

I'm looking forward to our third recorded
when we do that after this one airs.

Thanks.

Thank you so much for being on this summer

Matt Jenkins: football podcast.

I, I'm humbled to be here.

Thank you.