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A podcast focusing on the perspectives, lives, and stories of Kansans to provide greater insight into the state we all call home.
AAK_Ep26
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[00:00:00]
Introduction and Special Guest Announcement
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Gus Applequist: Welcome to Ask a Kansan,
Sydney Collins: a podcast where we're amplifying, uncovering and connecting Kansas.
Gus Applequist: And today we have, uh, a special treat.
Sydney Collins: We have, uh, Greg Victors, who is the Wichita War dancer. So you may see this set is a little different than normal. Mm-hmm. Um, so, uh, Wichita War Answer Greg, um, brought in his own chair with this amazing blanket.
So if you haven't heard of the Wichita War answer, he does a lot of different things around the country, around the world, um, really connecting people with, um, native culture.
Greg Victors: Mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: Um, do you have a better description of that? No, I honestly think that was really good. Okay.
Gus Applequist: I, yeah. This conversation is, uh.
I, I just wanna like, acknowledge it's, it, it's hard, it's scary for those of us that haven't, it's very
Sydney Collins: scary.
Gus Applequist: Had these kinds of conversations [00:01:00] before to, to do it. And so this, this is one of those times where, where we just, uh, we did our best and hopefully, hopefully it's a good conversation that is enlightening for, for you, our audience.
Sydney Collins: Yes.
Meet Greg Victors: The Wichita War Dancer
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Sydney Collins: So without any further ado, um, here is, uh, Greg Victors, the Wichita War [00:02:00] Dancer.
Greg Victors: We
are[00:03:00]
Sydney Collins: Hello? Hello, hello. Hello. How's it going? How
Greg Victors: are you guys?
Gus Applequist: We're very well. Good. Glad to see
Greg Victors: you. Good date. Let's, uh, do a. Teach you something real quick. Okay. Oh, let me do this. Yeah,
Gus Applequist: actually,
Greg Victors: how's that right there? Yeah. Testing 1, 2, 3. Unique New York. Uh, teach you something real quick. Uh, Plains Indian Sign Language.
A universal way of saying hello. Is this right here? Hello? Hello. How are you? I mean, it's like this too. Yeah. But this is kind of a universal for Hello. Thank you. Um, good. That kind of thing. I love that. So, wow. Hello. Wow. How are you guys? Good. I'm Sydney. We haven't officially met. Yeah. All right. And I'm Gus.
Sydney and Gus, thank you guys for having me on today.
Sydney Collins: Thank you. Really appreciate that. For coming up. Um, for, um, our [00:04:00] listeners, can you introduce yourself for us?
Greg Victors: Sure. Uh, thank you for tuning in to this special edition of Ask a Kansan called Ask a Wichita War Dancer. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, I am Greg Victors, AKA, the Wichita War dancer.
I'm not really sure which camera I'm supposed to be. All of 'em. All of them. Okay. It's fine.
Understanding Native American Culture and History
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Greg Victors: Uh, I am a Native American performer. Uh, I'm also a Native American advocate, uh, educator and, uh, storyteller and I travel all across the United States. I've been to several different countries across the world, showcasing and, and educating people about my Native American culture.
And I'm based outta my headquarters in Wichita, Kansas.
Gus Applequist: Wow. Wow. Well, you know. First thing I have to say is like, you're by far the best dressed of any of our Thank you. Thank you. A hundred percent. Our classes join up a little bit. No, I'm just kidding. No, no. It's, it's fascinating honestly, to see your whole [00:05:00] regalia.
Greg Victors: Well, you know, and when I do this, uh, it's always a mission of mine to be able to let people know this is the real me. You know? Uh, it, it's, it's a struggle for some of our native people to walk in two different worlds. Um, you know, and, and there's always this, oh, well, that's a costume. Well, no, it's not a costume.
This is a regalia. This is traditional wear, and this is a reflection of my identity, who I am. Throughout my entire life, you know? And so this was just a representation of me, of who I am and the people that I represent. So appreciate those, those words.
Gus Applequist: And I can tell that it's a full commitment thing.
Like you had to come quite a bit early today in order to prepare. So we appreciate
Greg Victors: that. I did, I did. Yeah. I, uh, it takes me, uh, a couple hours to get ready, um, to, to put things together, you know, and so, um, it's a traditional, uh, regalia that I wear, and so, you know, it has, I, I'm able to pack it up and, and kind of, you know, get it to where I can travel.
And so, like I said, I've been all [00:06:00] over the world, so I always gotta fit it in a small little bag. So, um, yeah. You know, like I said, it's a commitment, but it's, it's a passion. When you have a passion, you're, you're committed to, to making sure you, you do what you need to do.
Gus Applequist: Certainly, well, with full knowledge that this question goes deeper with you than some of our other guests.
Greg's Personal Journey and Kansas Connection
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Gus Applequist: Could you tell us about your roots here in Kansas?
Greg Victors: Oh, definitely. Uh, Gus, I, I would love to be able to do that. Um, it's not a long answer. I mean, it's not a short answer, so bear with me. Uh, I, I kind of have a, a little story about, uh, you know, the plight of our native people and, and how Kansas plays a role in that and, and my connection to Kansas and Wichita.
Um, before I start though, I say a little unprofessionalism. I'm sorry, I woke up today with these allergies. I'm wasting. Oh, you behind? We're all that way all days. It had to be today. I'm just kind, got some things going on, so bear with me. I [00:07:00] apologize for all of our wonderful listeners out there. Uh, please forgive me.
Um, but a little bit about our history and why I go into it is because, you know, and, uh, the, uh, you know, the public school system, American school system, um, a lot of people always come up to me at my shows and my events and they, they, they don't know certain things. And, and it's like, well, you, you've been taught his story, you know, uh, everything's different through his story.
Well, this is our story. And so I, I, I try to tell people, um, a little bit more than what they might have learned, um, no fault of their own in school. It's just, uh, what we, we decided to learn. You know? And I picked up that right away as a kid, you know, learned about. The French and Rope spears, reign of terror and all of these things, and then we get to our section and it was like, oh, would this happen?
And let's move on. You know? So I feel a responsibility to be able to, to share those things with the world. But back to your question, um, you know, a long time [00:08:00] ago, there's researchers that have suggested that before colonization, before, uh, European contact, we were, uh, a nation of about a hundred million people.
And Wow. You know. About that time, um, after colonization, there was, you know, the idea of America. And since that time there's always been an Indian problem. And so, uh, it went in stages, each generation. Um, the first stage was of course, a disease and, uh, you know, our people didn't do very well during that time.
Then the next stage was termination, just straight out termination at that point in time, uh, native people, native citizens, we weren't considered humans. Um, and so it was okay to, to get rid of us, uh, but that was costly. You know, ammunition and, and just the amount of, of our people and population here, it, it was difficult to, to carry that through.
Then came starvation and what that looks like, uh, especially for our plains tribes, the buffalo, you know, uh, getting rid of the [00:09:00] buffalo. Now our main food source is depleted and now we're struggling and we're all starving. And then after that came, you know, uh, legislation and laws that were passed, the Forced Indian Removal Act in the 18 hundreds.
The Boarding School Era and Its Impact
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Greg Victors: So let's displaced these natives, put 'em on reservations and, you know, and then that was an, that was another era, but in my opinion, you, you know, uh, not trying to rate, you know, this type of genocide, but it, my saddest one is the, the boarding schools era. And for those of our people who don't, uh, understand what the boarding school era is, it was a time, um.
Of assimilation. Uh, there was an Indian fighter, retired Indian fighter who had an idea of Indian schools, basically a vortex or a portal to where a native would enter and out would come a totally assimilated acculturated American. Um, and, and, and I say this is the saddest for me because it targeted our, our, our young defenseless uh, children.
And [00:10:00] it was, it was legal, uh, during that time because there was a campaign, a United States campaign called Kill the Indian, save the Man. And it was to, to, to, uh, absorb the native, but keep the man. And so that's where this came from. And so it was, it was legal for the government to come to reservations and steal kids and take 'em off to these schools, not, we'll see you back at Thanksgiving and, and you're gonna get a break.
No, this was, you never seen your children again. Grandparents never got to hug their children again. And in these schools, they started popping up everywhere. And one of them was in Lawrence, Kansas. Uh, we know at today as Haskell Indian Nations University. And I, and I tell this story because that's kind of where my, my story begins.
In the beginning it was like an institution. Then it changed for like the next 20 years. You know, the purpose and, and, and it became like a preschool that, or it was like a elementary, then it went to like high school. But over time, society changed and, and, and the [00:11:00] errors were, were, were trying to be fixed.
And so a lot of different leaderships took it over at different, certain times. But overall, once we got to about the seventies, it actually became, um, a college. For native students all across the country to go to school and receive an education. And so, uh, the Haskell Indian, uh, junior college is what it was called, uh, before it was like an institution, a trade school, a vocational school.
And so to kind of tell you a little bit about my tribes and the people who I, I represent, uh, I'll, I'll kind of continue with this story. There was a, a young man named Juan, and he was a member of the Hanno Autum Nation. Can you guys say hanno au
Gus Applequist: au tum.
Greg Victors: Okay, let's try that again. These guys just had lunch
Au
Gus Applequist: Autum.
Greg Victors: Okay. Very good. Very good. Now they were a, I, I wanna say a Southwest tribe because right now, uh, the Don Autum is in Arizona, but I'm speaking before the [00:12:00] border. There's a border right now that goes right the through the middle of our people, uh, Mexico and America. But our lands originally were from around the Sonoran Mountains all the way up, uh, north part of, of Arizona.
I know we all like to go hang out in Scottsdale and Paradise, uh, valley and all those places you see these beautiful houses on, on these mountains. Well, that's the original homeland of the Autum people. And uh, that's where a young man was from. His name was Juan. He grew up, uh, in humble. Humble way. And when I say that, I mean he, he grew up in a home that was made out of, uh, cactus, ribs and mud.
And he lived on a dirt floor. And, uh, that was his life. And he was happy. He was a good kid. Went to school, had a brother that went to the military, and then, uh, worked for the BIA Bureau of Indian Affairs. And through that, he found out about Haskell. And about that time, Juan had just finished, uh, high school and he was, um, thinking about a future, you know, [00:13:00] and, and that part always gets me, because this is a time before social media internet.
You can just pull it up and see what you're, what you're doing. This was unknown. This was unchartered territory for, for this young guy. And, but he wanted to make a life for himself. He wanted something different. And so we heard about this place called Lawrence, Kansas, and he wanted to get an education.
So he worked and, and had a lot of, a lot of fun, uh, you know, buying a plane ticket, a, a bus ticket and a cab to get him to where he was on campus. And he started going to school there, doing really good. Same time, there was a young lady by the name of Sandra and she, Sandra Mina, and she was a member of the, uh, Ponca Nation.
They have a reservation in Oklahoma called White Eagle. And so, uh, she was just finished up high school and she was a, she was a hippie, she was a flower childs and joy her summer, having a good time. But she had dreams of being a teacher. She wanted to be a teacher. And, uh, she heard about this school as well.
Went up there, joined every club that's in there. Anybody that got [00:14:00] these old yearbooks can find her. Um, just really outspoken, really outgoing, and uh, made a lot of relationships with the professors. And they said, well, we got a student here that. That needs a little, needs a little help. English wasn't his first language, and uh, we, you know, you have a connection to all of these students.
Well, tho that they ended up, uh, falling in love, getting married, both getting their degrees, getting married, moving out to Arizona, and those are my parents. And so that's how my story starts. Uh, Lawrence, Kansas. Um, I was born in Phoenix amongst the Autum people. Um, but over the years we, we kept having this relationship with, uh, the Punkass and, and, uh, Wichita, Kansas.
Uh, my grandparents lived there. They, they moved up, um, you know, a little bit before the war, but kind of during war times. There's a lot of jobs, unemployment that wasn't down in the reservation. And so my family moved and, and my grandfather went to war and then come home and then let's just put our roots here in [00:15:00] Wichita.
And so, uh, when I was in Phoenix, I was born and raised out there. And then, um. You know, in our culture, we value our elders. We, we value them, we understand, uh, you know, sometimes situations call for, for your, for your elders to be put in a care facility because you just don't have the means to take care of them.
But we do our best to be able to take care of our families and, and make 'em a part of who we are. And, uh, you know, my, my grandparents got down a little bit and, uh, we moved back to, we moved to Wichita permanently. And so I'm, I've been a resident there. Wi Wichita's been my home, you know, let's round it to about, you know, 50 some odd years.
And, you know, that, that, that's home for me, that's headquarters. I love the prairie life and I feel attached to it. And so, um, it's been, you know, great growing up and being in Kansan and, uh, enjoying my life here in Wichita, the prairie life. Wow. So that's wow. My Kansas connection of, of why [00:16:00] I, you know, people always ask me, well, how did, how did you end up here?
You know? Mm-hmm. And so that's, that's a little bit of a history lesson and, and then a little bit about me, how I got to be here.
Gus Applequist: Thank you. That was a wonderful answer. Long way to get
Greg Victors: there. But,
Gus Applequist: um, gimme just a second. Think about,
Greg Victors: well, I could also add on to that. Um. I also have another, if we wanna go further back to my Kansas connections with my mother's, people of the Ponca.
Um, I, I mentioned the, the Forced Removal Act and, and everybody having to move to reservations. And so there's always a misconception that the Trail Tears was just for like Cherokees and Choctaws, but a lot of tribes had had several long walks and journeys, um, to their people moving on to reservations.
And the Poncas were one of those at the time of the removal. Uh, our Ponca people were, uh, our homelands at that point were northern Nebraska. [00:17:00] At a place called Niobrara And, uh, we were, after about, I think it was about 30 years of a treaty, then a broken treaty, then they sold our lands to neighboring Dakota tribes.
And after all of these things, and, and instead of making things right, uh, they said, well, you guys just are gonna have to get outta here. And so, um, we had a trail of tears from about a, I think it was about a 600 mile, uh, walk. And, uh, it was, it was kind of in the springtime, so, uh, treacherous rain conditions, a lot of flooding, a lot of mud tornadoes even.
And so about a third of our population we lost during just making that journey. Um, but we came through Kansas Marysville, um, uh, Manhattan Council Grove on down to Emporia, all the way out to Parsons in I iola. And, uh. To a place called Baxter Springs, Kansas. And so, um, during that, during [00:18:00] that trek and that journey, we, uh, a lot of our people, you know, not even the strong survived, you know, we lost a lot of people, women, children, elders, uh, some of our chiefs.
They lost their wife, their mom and their children all in this journey. And so we, we were settled in, in Baxter Springs, uh, for a little while. There was, uh, tribes there, uh, deja relatives, kpa, um, the, uh, different tribes there. And it was, I was told, uh, through my oral history that we almost ended up there.
Um, just because the soldiers that have to accompany us, they themselves were completely exhausted and it was costing a lot of money. Um, but then the final word came from dc We're moving them to Oklahoma. And so, you know, I have a deep Kansas connection because I feel, I feel. That spirit here, you know, it, there's really not words in, in English to describe, you know, my connection to, [00:19:00] to how I feel about things.
And in Kansas, we have a deep spiritual connection to, to feeling, uh, spirits and, and feeling our people of the past and, and, and their footprints are here. And we we're connected to that. And, uh, it's almost, I don't know what you could say, like a meta, metaphysical, supernatural feeling that we have connection to our environment and to our people that's been through here.
Um, you know, there were a lot of tribes, you know, at one time, you know, the ponies and the Wichita, they had a huge civilization here in Kansas. And then you had other tribes like the, the JE and uh, kaas and just different tribes would come through Kansas because this was a resourceful area. Lots of rivers, lots of game.
Um, there was a buffalo trail that ran through the Western part. Um. I feel connected and that's, I think that's one of the reasons why I love Kansas so much is because I feel connected to my ancestors. And I'm gonna [00:20:00] admit I'm, I'm kind of a Star Wars nerd. You mean you're gonna
Sydney Collins: get along great.
Greg Victors: I know we got some Lord of the Rings fans as well.
But I, I saw a meme the not too long ago, and it said something like, being a Native American is the closest thing to being a Jedi. And that just, that just really hit Oh, that's a, because you know, it's, it's this force, this living thing around us that binds us all together and we feel connected to, you know, the earth and, and the wind.
And the sun. And, and we just, we're just connected to this, this, uh, this way of, and, and it goes all the way through the plains. And, and when I'm back with my ancestors in Arizona, I feel that way, uh, with the, the Saguaro and the desert and our mountains. And so there's this deep connection there. And so, uh, I like that.
I like that. Wow.
Gus Applequist: Beautiful. This episode is sponsored by Renaissance Cafe, serving northern Italian cuisine prepared with a fresh, contemporary influence. The Renaissance Cafe is one of Kansas' favorite [00:21:00] restaurants, whether you're planning a romantic dinner date, a family celebration, or an intimate meal with friends.
The Renaissance provides a unique dining experience with an old world atmosphere. Open Thursday through Saturday evenings. The Renaissance Cafe is located just south of Salina in as area Kansas. Visit renaissance cafe as area.com to book your reservation today. You know, one of the things we talk a lot about on this podcast is, is the beauty in Kansas and how it's in some people's minds a subtle beauty that has to be uncovered and and discovered.
Yeah. Um, but, but I think you put great words to that beauty just now, and that was Oh
Greg Victors: yeah. I, I think it's just the sign of the times, you know, people have to be entertained. They have to see something. Yeah. It's gotta do something. It's gotta, it's gotta, you know, we live in a world that's fast paced and, and it's gotta be grand for us to appreciate it.
But no, the, the way you, you, you're out on the prairie, you see the wind blow. It's gorgeous. It's beautiful. Mm-hmm. You know, you, you see the sunset and, and you see morning or you see the morning sun come up, you see the dew just [00:22:00] on a flat, please. Piece of prairie, you know, it's gorgeous. You know, it's a, you know, I'm a spiritual person and that's our, our creator's creation.
And every morning we're reminded about that. We, we get in our grind every day, get to work, get to hustle, and get, get to moving. But sometimes we need to stop and, and look at these gifts that the creator gives us and our life and, and how special it is to not overlook that, you know? And so that's what, that's what I love about it.
Cultural Differences Among Native Tribes
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Gus Applequist: I think that we have many blind spots, uh, as, as people that, that are not native to this land. Uh, and, and I think one of them is, and you've touched on it already, but is the differences between different native populations and, um, different tribes. And, uh, so I, I, I'm curious, you know, as you interact with, with tribes that are not, you know, ones that you're from, uh.
You know, you have shared experience with them, obviously [00:23:00] being persecuted, uh, similarly.
Greg Victors: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Um, but, but can you highlight for us some of the cultural differences that may not be obvious to us between these different native people?
Greg Victors: Well, yeah, certainly that's a, that's a good question. Um, there is a lot of differences.
You know, I, at one time I told there's almost about a 900 different Native Nations in Canada, United States, and in Mexico. All indigenous cultures all different. But I think the misconception is that, you know, oh, they're native, so they all know each other's, uh, language. We know each other's custom. But, you know, it's definitely not like that.
There's so many differences when it comes to religion, when it comes to spirituality, when it comes to our language. Um, and just different customs, you know. And so I, uh, fortunately enough grew up in a traditional. Family, Ponca family. What that means is, you know, we spoke our language. We, we practice our religions.
We, we know our ceremonies and customs. And so I've had [00:24:00] an opportunity to be, to be groomed in that way. Um, and so one of the parts of that, I, I also was raised by my grandparents and our Ponca tradition. It's, it's, um, it's, it's, uh. It's like customary for your newborns to be raised by your grandparents.
And, and so, um, I, I, I learned a lot and, and they were always going. And when I mean going, they said, well, this is our, our Panka traditions, but we have neighbors over here. Let's go be with them and make relationships with them. And so I learned, started to learn a lot about different tribes and different customs and different, different ideologies from different places.
And so we'd pack up and we'd take a trip, we'd go to the East coast and we'd learn things about different natives from the east coast. We go to the southwest or we go up to the, the coastal region. And these are all different things, you know. Beautiful cultures, you know, and, and, and, but it's, it's all very distinct, you know?
And, and it's, [00:25:00] it, like I said, it's a misconception that we're all alike. We all have the same, and even in my tribe, they're, they're two different, two different tribes. They speak different languages, different dialects, different customs, different religion, different beliefs. And so, you know, not only did did I grow up having to walk in a balancing two worlds mm-hmm.
Uh, but I also had to balance both of my tribes and, and my people. And so, um. But you do it because your ancestors went through so much. You know, I, I told you some of the atrocities and some of those things and, and yet we're here, you know, we're still here, you know, so back then our ancestors were, were brave enough to, to take this underground, to do things in secrecy and, and have a secret, uh, culture and, and, and do these things because a lot of these, you know, speaking your language or, or doing what I do right now, I, I, in the old days, barely a hundred years ago, I might've been prosecuted for it.
Um, I, I could've went to prison or even, you know, killed [00:26:00] for practicing my culture. And so, um, I think our, our old ones knew that eventually someday society would change its mind about us. And I think they preserved it and, and just passed it along as much as we could over the years and over the generations so that we could.
Do what we're doing today so that we could have a ponca on ASCA cans. And, you know, and, and, and I believed that they thought of that. You know, uh, we're, we're a resilient people, but we're never down. We go through a lot of hardships, but we're never down. We keep getting back up. And I think that has been the biggest part of, of who we are and why we're still here as people.
And I'm, and I'm always proud of that. But back to your question, a lot of differences, a lot of different things that are beautiful and, and you do your best to try to understand. Um, like I said, I travel coast to coast and so I, I'm always learning, I'm always learning about different cultures and, and, and different customs that our native people have.
And even more than that, I, I, I've been to about four continents all over the world, and there's always some indigenous [00:27:00] culture. Wherever they're at. And it's, it's so, um, interesting to me how alike some of our indigenous cultures are, how we share certain things with the Aborigines of Australia and thing, and, and people like that.
Um, so it, it, it's beautiful. You know, it's something that connects us. You know, we, we got these things that we're all connected through, but, you know, we find those, uh, beautiful parts of who we are as a people. Wow.
Sydney Collins: Where do you think your passion comes from?
Greg Victors: Um, it comes from my ancestors. Yeah. You know, I, I have a, you know, we, we grew up in, in, uh, in an environment where, you know, um, my elders, they, they always were always passing this along.
And I, I think it goes back to what I just got done talking about. And, and I think that is my passion because I feel a responsibility. I, I feel it's my job now to teach this out to the world. Um, and, and, and doing what I do as a native [00:28:00] performer, Wichita war dancer. Um, this gives me the opportunity to share that culture and to be able to explain things to, to natives, to give them that courage to, to be who they are and, and to never be ashamed of their culture, but at the same time, reach non-natives, non-native people and say, this is who we are.
We've always been here, and, and, and this is how you can include us in society. And so my passion and drive come from just the sacrifices that those ancient ones. Uh, uh, went through, you know, they paid an ultimate cost. They paid a significant price. They had to endure so many things. Like I said, imagine getting your kids taken away from you never seeing them again or being removed from your house, just pulled outta your house today and moved to a different place that you don't want to be.
But yet they knew they kept this going and, uh, you know, they knew someday somebody would accept what we do. And so that's why I feel a responsibility to be able to, to get out and do these things. Take a drink of [00:29:00] water.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Yeah. Please feel free. I'm gonna do this.
Greg Victors: Ah, I love you guys' setup. You got a real nice vibe here. I had an opportunity to see a couple episodes and I was like, oh man. But when I got here, it looked a little, so I was like, oh wow. It looks different. Yeah. But I love it though. It's a good vibe here.
The Story of the Wichita War Dancer
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Gus Applequist: So we've talked a little bit about the big picture, but I'd like to focus just a little bit more for a minute on you.
Could you tell us kind of the story of Wichita War dancer? How did you get started on this path? Oh, and, and, um, you know, what were the developments along the way and, and, and you know, where you're at today with, with this passion of yours?
Greg Victors: Oh, uh, yeah. I, I started, za was said, I was groomed and raised by my elders of my people.
And when I say elders, I mean, you know, grandparents and aunts and uncles and, and, uh, elder members of the tribe, people would, would, would come up to me and, and [00:30:00] all, you don't know it when you're young, but you're being groomed. This is how you do this. This is how you perform here. This is what you say.
This is how you pray. This is, this is how you, uh, conduct this ceremony. There's this set of rules that you follow, you know. You think of it as just, you know, protocol, but really you're being groomed, uh, into being, uh, a traditionalist, a, a person who can, can perform these things. And so, uh, I started at a young age and, uh, just being groomed by, by my elders, and this is the way we do things.
This is, this is why, you know, all of these questions were there. And they would, they would tell me and instruct me a lot of times about days of the old and, uh, you know, the old ways. And, and this is why we did it. And so it was all of this, these teachings that was being, uh. You know, thrust upon me and I was just, you know, my job was there to absorb it.
And, you know, uh, I got it started, uh, at a young age. I have a older brother and I have a [00:31:00] younger sister. Uh, they got started a little earlier than me. I was a little still kind of, kind of a wild kid. Um, and so I started a little bit after them. But, you know, I can honestly say I've dedicated my life, uh, to being a native, uh, a native person.
And, and these dance, this is just a part of one, part of, of what we have in our ceremonies. We also are, are, are talented singers and, and, and artists, you know, and. It's just learning these things and, and passing them on, appreciating the, the pres preservation that's been done up to that point, and you do your best to carry it on.
Um, but yeah, I got started at, at, at an early age. And, you know, along the way I, I just took guidance from my elders and, and my, my relatives and, and people, you know, wanting to see me do, do good things. And, you know, one of the things that my elders would always tell me, they would, they would always tell me, um, take care of this culture because it can take you [00:32:00] places that you can't even imagine or can't even dream.
And I think about that now. I, I never once knew when you're a kid, that your elders and your people and your support are someday not gonna be here. You know? And now they're gone. And now I think about it, and now I think about them and I, and I, and I'm always recalling, what did they tell me? What did they say?
How would they have handled this? And, um. I, I think about that and, and what they've instilled in me. And, you know, sometimes when I'm, when I'm overseas, I'll think about that. I was like, they were right that I'm going to a place that I can't even pronounce. And, and, you know, they, they saw a future for me.
And so that's, uh, a big part, uh, of what I do when I'm a performer. Wichita War dancer. Um, I danced and performed my whole life. Um, it's something that I, that that was just always a part of who we are now. We, we're not a culture that has a lot of written history, um, but a lot of our history is passed down through song, [00:33:00] um, in this society, singing and dancing karaoke, that's just kind of a hobby, something fun to do.
But it was a big part of our culture. You know, we, we have a lot of our, our, our, um. History intact through ancient, ancient songs and, and customs and religions that we have. And you know what? I dance it, it's a, it's a representation. It's an interpretation of, of a battle or maybe, uh, someone that had to go through some hardships.
And so that's what this represents. And, and the style of dance that I do here is called the War Dance. And this is a, the, uh, it's called of a fancy war dance. And it was a dance that was created out of our, our love and passion that we have for all of our creators creations, uh, including our four-legged relatives, especially being the horse.
So this dance comes to, uh, as a dance that represents the gift of the horse. The horse, uh, uh, you know, our elders had visions of it, of this dance happening while they were singing. And so, um, I'm very fortunate that I'm a [00:34:00] member of the Ponca Nation because. Uh, we're the originators of, of a lot of our dances that we, we practice and other tribes do it now.
Um, and so I'm extremely blessed to, to be able to say, I'm, I'm dancing in a way that my ancestors created. And so we believe we got these dances through our creator himself. And so I'm just happy to, to be a part. Uh, uh, I'm a little puzzle of that. But, uh, I danced for many years, um, did a tour. I left the United States for like three years.
Wow. And, uh, that, that was back when I was a youngster. And, uh, you know, Kuhn continually traveling, you know, and then, uh, I, I kind of, you know. Started feeling the wear and tear and thought, you know what? I need to take a break. And never walked away from it. I was always there, but, you know, I went on to, to get an education, uh, receive a master's and a bachelor's and several other degrees and, and, you know, hit the books and kind of started another life in that way.
And then, [00:35:00] um, full circle coming around. You know, my parents had gotten down a little bit in their health and I moved back home to take care of them. And I remember one day during, uh, during breakfast, I just made breakfast. I sat down and they looked at me and they told me, they said, we, we want to see you dance one more time.
And I didn't like how that sounded, you know, it really. Hurt my feelings a little bit because I know what that meant. We wanna see you before it's our time, you know, and so talk about pressure, you know, I was like, okay, well I'm going to the gym today. Um, I was extremely outta shape, so I just started putting it together.
I have a brother who beads I have, I have family who, who helped me out, my sister and, and all of our people. And, and, and I do my bead work as well and Wow. Uh, make my own regalia. And so it was just putting things together and, and, and getting it going. And, you know, I started again, but this time I didn't really compete as much.
Uh, and it was mainly just kind of this [00:36:00] show, kind of like what I do now and kind of an educator to where I have, uh, a platform and that's what I do depending on my audience, you know, obviously I'm not gonna hit kindergarten with some big topics, but, you know, definitely I do a lot of speaking at colleges and universities and so I kind of always.
Have a mission for our native and our non-natives to be able to, to, um. Understand our current issues. You know, I use this as a platform to talk about some of the things that are, are hot topics for our native people. Um, there's a misconception in, in his story again, uh, that we got moved to reservations and the boarding schools happen, and now we're at this peaceful co-existent, but we're, we're still battling.
You know, today we still have battles and even today, and there's a courtroom happening right now where natives are fighting for our sovereignty. We're fighting for our rights, we're fighting for our water, we're fighting for our environment. Um, there's a lot of, lot of things that are [00:37:00] going on that we're always trying to fight for our human rights as people.
And so, um, you know, that, that's, that's what I use what I, my platform to do. I, I educate about the past, but then I also talk about the contributions that our native people have made to society and, and the world, you know, since then. Um, and so I, uh. I use that as an opportunity to talk about our, our people and where we're going and the futures that we have.
Um, we still have, uh, some tribes in this country who are living third world, you know, and they need a lot of help, but we also have some tribes who are doing extremely well and they, if, you know, branched out of gaming and they're in own native enterprises and they're, they're doing big things in tech and energy and different things.
And so, uh, there's, there's a lot to talk about when it comes to our native people. And so I just kind of go out and, and I do a performance and then I educate. 'cause before I used to just [00:38:00] do dancing and, and people were kind of, I felt like they weren't getting what that is. And so I dance, I'll perform, and then I talk about.
You know, uh, something that's their historical areas. Um, then I'll perform a little bit more and I talk about the symbolism of my regalia. And then, uh, I talk about, and it depends on why I'm there. Um, I remember one of my favorites was, uh, I did, uh, a military base and, um, you know, I have a, a grandfather, a great-grandfather who was an actual ponca code talker.
And so I, I, I got to address them about the military and, you know, the stories I heard from him, uh, as a ponca code talker. And so, um, you know, I just, I just, you know, love sharing those, those types of stories. So
Symbolism and Significance of the Regalia
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Sydney Collins: can, um, can you tell us what the symbolism is of all your regalia?
Greg Victors: Well, well, let's start with, uh, like I said, this, this, uh, regalia represents the horse.
So this is supposed to be a [00:39:00] dance of the horse. So you see. What I have here. Mm-hmm. Kind of like ACEC Clydesdale, um, it all is a representation of the, the movements of a horse. So life before the horse was extremely difficult. So once horses came to us, we, we thought of it as something that was great and grand and a wonderful gift from our creator.
And through that, this dance was, was created the speed, the agility, um, and the courage. You know, people who have experience with horses, they know horses can be spooked and, and they're, you know, so imagine the courage of, and the bravery of a horse that, that, that's running along 10,000 buffalo and, and hunting and, and or running into a battle or, or you know, having to be able to do things in harsh conditions, weather conditions.
And so that's where this dance was created. Uh, it's a dance that I do, uh, but some basic things about my colors. Um, what do you think of when you see these colors? Red? Orange and white. [00:40:00] Well, what comes to mind?
Gus Applequist: Sunset was something I thought of.
Greg Victors: Let's give a round of applause over here. Um, no, that's exactly what this is.
Okay. There's these, these colors represent the sun. And whenever I'm doing a show at hearing Kansas City or in Kansas, people say Kansas City Chiefs. I'm not gonna lie, that was gonna be my answer. That's, that's just a coincidence. Um, so if they're listening, they need me to come perform at their games, let me know.
Um, no, I'm just kidding. Uh, these represent the sun and they're, um. The sun to our native people, that, that, that morning sun is what I'm talking about. Those deep colors of red and orange and purple and pink. And that's the most sacred time for our native people. It's a time where we're all praying, we're all harnessing our energy for the day.
It's a time where we're, we're giving, um, you know, energy and sacrificing, uh, prayers for people that might be sick in our family. And so it's just a sacred time in our ceremonies. It's, it's the time [00:41:00] where the sun. Um, another misconception is that we have a sun God, and we have a river God. And, and, and for a lot of our plains tribe, that's not true.
A lot of our natives, that's not true. We just have one creator, but we respect. Um, you know, certain entities in this world, a as a being like a, a, a sun as, as the grandfather or, or you know, the, the water and the streams as a woman. And so we, we believe in these things and so we believe that the sun is the strongest and the morning.
And that's when you ask, you know, the creator during this time with the sun to, to help you throughout the day because the sun has a big job. It wakes up the world, it just doesn't wake up. You know, certain animals and people, it, it tells the plants and that vegetation to awaken it, it just wakes up the world and it's has to be super strong to wake the world up.
And so that's why I use these colors to represent the, the morning sun. [00:42:00] Um, this, uh, headdress that I have is, was typical plains here in this area. Um, a lot of different tribes use this hedger made out of porcupine quill and quill deer tail. And so, uh, but the most important part that I have here are these eagle feathers.
Now, the eagle is our, our most sacred messenger to our people. It's the most sacred entity. It's a, it's a way we create, uh, or we, we speak to our creator. It's, uh, what we use in our religion and in our ceremonies to, to have a direct link to our creator. And so that's why we have, uh, eagle feathers on our, on our.
On our head. And so this, this regalia, uh, uh, like I said, was created by me and, and a brother, and just different people that, that helped me out. Um, and, you know, it's really, uh, a passion for what you do. Um, bead by bead, stitch by stitch. Mm-hmm. Uh, a lot of this comes together, but it takes about three years to make a, a regalia.
So I'm constantly [00:43:00] working, constantly sewing. Um, I get excited over fabric sales, um, you know, things like that. So you're always working, you're always fabricating, but it goes back to passion. It goes back to loving what you do and having responsibility to your ancestors to make sure these things survive and continue into the future.
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Learn more at Cohort Digital. So Cindy, we've used Cohort for several different projects. Yes. Uh, for, for Feely, and it's been very successful and really pleased with the information. Yep. Alyssa does a great job.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Both ly, um, and Hanson, we've used both. [00:44:00] Um, basically we give them the creative and they really hone in on getting it seen by people.
And the best part is, is you get the results in front of you. Mm-hmm. Um, like we got an email from Alyssa and her team yesterday. Yeah. And it was like, Hey, this is what's performing. This is what's not performing. These are the changes we suggest. And like, it's really like, oh yeah. They take the work out of the data piece that some people don't really get.
And it's, it's great.
Gus Applequist: And I love, uh. Like, there's a lot of of organizations in this space doing this kind of work mm-hmm. That are just kind of checking a box. Yep. But that's not cohort. They're always bringing their creativity to the task and, and surprising us in the ways that they find opportunity for our marketing dollars online.
Sydney Collins: Yep. So make sure to go to the website cohort digital, there's no.com, it's just cohort digital. Um, and learn more.
Modern Components and Competitions
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Gus Applequist: I love how, how you're using some modern [00:45:00] components to Yeah. Make it probably easier and more durable. Yeah. There's a
Greg Victors: competition component. Um, I, you know, uh, our native dances now, it's almost like a circuit, like a rodeo circuit.
There's something happening everywhere. And, you know, uh, I grew up like that. Where we compete here, we compete here, and, and we travel all across the country. And, uh, you know, I, I got in a position to where, you know, I could compete and win. You know, I, I don't know. I don't want to really brag about it, but, you know, uh, I, I won, you know, many titles, uh, state, federal, and, you know, national titles throughout my life.
And, um, it's just been a wonderful journey to be able to represent my people and, and share this culture. But at the same time, we travel.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Greg Victors: And so I've had to make, you know, little adjustments to it because when I'm dancing and there's some video, I think that's gonna be up. Yeah. Uh, showing me dancing, you know, it's a, it's a full on movement, and so some of these things have to be really, really secure.
Um, you know, the dance that I do [00:46:00] is kind of a young man's sport. Um, and so as an older guy, you know, it can be kind of tough.
Staying in Shape and Healthy
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Greg Victors: So I don't look at, but I, I kind of stay in shape, you know? Uh, I like to, to stay, uh, working at it and, and just being, you know, healthy as best as I can. Um, but one more thing about the, the competition.
Oklahoma World Championship
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Greg Victors: Every year in Oklahoma, they have a, a world, uh, championship and, and people from all over the country, there's visitors from all over the world. Everybody's at this competition. In Oklahoma, and that is the, the world title. And I never, I never, I never performed for it. I never danced. Uh, I always had this feeling of I've already won so many titles that, that, you know, let somebody else, you know, have that.
And so I ne I never, never went for it. But here we go again with my parents, you know, you know, uh, I, I, I, I love my folks, you know, I try to make them happy and they, they wanted me to perform in this, and they want me to do it, but it's such a ar it's like a tournament. It's like a [00:47:00] tournament. If you could think about it.
All the dancers show up, and then it's just dwindled down to a final four. And in 2020, 21, I made the final four. Wow. And I was extremely happy to do that. But when you're in the Final Four, then you, you, uh, you dance solo in front of thousands of people. Oh, wow. And you perform. Yeah. And so, uh, you know, here I am past my prime, you know, and, uh.
But you know, you, it is just experience and, and you, you, you know your craft and you, you, you stick with, you know, what you love and what you do and you, you think about your family and your people and, you know, I was happy to say in 2021, I, I won the World Championship title there, brought it back to Kansas.
And, uh, I was extremely happy to do that. Got to meet the governor. She gave me a, a nice little award. And so I was happy to do that Same thing in Sedgwick County. I got some recognition there as well. So, yeah, it's, it's been a wonderful, [00:48:00] wonderful journey to be able to do this. And I've been extremely blessed.
Dancing for a Cause
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Greg Victors: And when we dance and when we perform, you know, a lot of our people they dance for, the people they dance for, for, uh, sickness or they dance for hardships. Uh, people might be going through. We're always dancing. We dance for people. We, we dance in, in a way that, you know, we'll be beneficial to people. And so, um.
I, myself, I dance for the creator as well. Um, I imagine the creator giving me this gift and in life, and I could have easily turned away from it, but I didn't. I went right with it the whole time. And so I, I, I perform in a way as if the heavens are open and, and the creator Wakanda is looking down upon me, smiling and happy that I've, I've done this craft as long as I can do and will continue to do as long as I can.
Respect and Appreciation for Native Culture
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Gus Applequist: For listeners of our podcast and people that, that have seen you or will see you dance in person, how can they show their appreciation and respect for what you do?[00:49:00]
Greg Victors: That's a good question. Um. How can they respect or show appreciation? Um, I, I, I would say just, uh, you know, learn to live with our people in mind. You know, you can do me a great service by, by remembering who we are as a native and, and what we've been through. And, um, understand the things that we're still going through.
You know, I, I had mentioned the, the different audiences, uh, I performed for, and, uh, I always love to perform for our, our, our youth, our children. Um, when another native, I, I was that native child, you know, uh, having to be able to balance two worlds to fit in in this society, but at the same time, keep my culture intact.
Um. So it's a, it's a, it's a wonderful blessing to be able to, to be an example for our native youth and, and, and to be able to show them there's a way that they can balance both worlds. [00:50:00] Um, but at the same time, it's just as important for our non-natives students as well. Um. They can benefit from seeing my show.
They can benefit from having me come to talk to them just by understanding, you know, we, we were in, in, in, in society, you know, here or anywhere else. When you don't know something, when, when something's foreign to you, when it, it can be kind of scary. You don't know what to expect. And I think that has been the problem with some of the things that happened to our people in the past.
Instead of looking at the, the, the accomplishments and, and the, the potential that we had as people and the way that we can help, uh, you know, things could have been different if there was a little more compassion and humanity for, for each other. And so I love reaching out to non-natives and, and just like I said, our children because, um, our youth are extremely important to our native culture, our elders and our youth.
Everything is our elders and our youth is so [00:51:00] important. And so when I perform for our youth. I, I, I'm not just looking at them, I'm looking at their future. There's gonna be a governor out there, there's gonna be a mayor. There's gonna be, they're gonna be possibly a president. And I want, uh, little Joey who's gonna get a bill.
He's governor and he's gonna get a bill, uh, uh, concerning my, our native people. And I want him to remember, Hey, I remember this native person that came to my school and he talked about what they're going through. This might not be a good idea for him and his people, and I want him to. You know, be able to make those decisions with, with, with our people in mind.
Or, or, or maybe, uh, Angela's gonna be president of the United States and something's gonna cross her desk, and, and she's gonna say, you know what? I remember these native, this native guy coming to my school and, and touching me in such a way that I'm not gonna sign this and, and, and it's gonna harm his people.
And so I, I also have a little bit, little bit of an ulterior motive. I'm [00:52:00] trying to reach a generation to understand us and, and to help us in the future. And so, uh, just building this world, you know, um, to help our people, you know, and it's, uh, I, I believe it's beneficial for, for, you know, whenever I'm have the opportunity to come out and, and perform and just kind of have those thoughts that, that I, if I can at least touch one person that might be all the, the only person that can make the biggest thing impact for my people.
Misrepresentation in Popular Culture
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Gus Applequist: One of the things I gripe about a lot on our podcast here, gripe,
Greg Victors: gripe, is let's do the gripe session.
Gus Applequist: Is, is Misrepresentation of Kansas in Popular Culture Yeah. On movies and tv. And, and it strikes me that, uh,
the, the feelings I have about Kansas are probably magnified in the representation of, of your people in popular culture. And so I don't, I don't necessarily want to want to continue to gripe on it, but I want to ask you, [00:53:00] what can people, what can creatives, what can artists and filmmakers, um, and, and authors, what can we do to better represent you?
Greg Victors: Um, basically what you're doing today, having me come on. Giving me an opportunity to address, uh, your audience, sharing your, your, your wonderful, beautiful studio with me to be able to talk about some issues, you know? Um. You know, uh, we, we, you know, you've heard people say you can't fix the past. Well, you can try to at least make things better.
Mm-hmm. And what you're doing with Ask Aans, and this is a good example of that, you know, reach out to, to the natives, reach out to the native people, reach out to the artists that we have. We have a lot of artists. We have a lot of producers. We have a lot of people who are doing great things right now and reach out to us, get our, get our viewpoints and, and, and collaborate with us.
And, and I think, uh, just doing what you're doing, uh, gives us an opportunity to put ourself out there and pop culture. You know, [00:54:00] uh, I. Misrepresentations are, are, are there, they still happen. Um, you know, I talked about the Kansas City Chiefs and, and the whole mascot debate and, and all of those things are, are really, really huge.
But in, in my viewpoint, don't get me wrong, I don't want this taken outta context, but when it comes to that type of, uh, representation, uh, I mean, they're important for stereotypes. They're important for combating stereotypes and seeing our people in a negative way. But at the same time, um, I grew up in a, in a timeframe time period where I was secure in my identity.
I always have been secure in my identity. I'm not worried about. You know, what someone says about me or, or calls I, I, I, I think I've just toughened myself up to not, um, feel those types of words. The way I had an ancestor. My, my, one of my ancestors tell me long time ago, my, one of my great grandfathers, he says, why are you worried about what [00:55:00] they say to you?
And the words that they call you, the slanderous words that they call you, that's not even your traditional language. And so that kind of hit me in a way, oh man, you know, that's, those words aren't even from our vocabulary, so why are you letting it affect you? And then those words started to slide off all the misrepresentation, all the stereotypes.
I was secure in my identity and always have been. But, you know, um, reaching out. To, to native so that we can talk about our sovereignty issues. Uh, we're battling sovereignty, our, our environment. And like I said, um, things that affect us as people, you know, our water rights, our environment, um, all types of different things.
We are working very hard as native people to, to, to fight. Every year we get our land, our lands annexed or reappropriated territories, and those are sold off to billionaires or whatever. So we gotta fight these kind of things. And being on things like this or reaching out in any, whatever media you have gives us a voice.[00:56:00]
It gives us a voice, and that's one of the biggest ways that we can fix all of those misrepresentations about our people.
Gus Applequist: Hmm. Thank you for sharing. Hmm.
Sydney Collins: How can people find you?
Greg Victors: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: What,
Greg Victors: uh, well, I was told there would be links somewhere. There will be links associated on this. Um, but the best way to to go is to Wichita war dancer.com, and that'll send you to, to a place to where you can send me a message.
And, uh, like I said, I, I love being able to go out and, but this is just one part of, of, of what I do. I also, uh, you know, like I said, I'm an advocate for our native, uh, rights and, and, uh, I also perform, one of the things I I, when I first started doing this, it was almost like, um, you know, November was a big month and I got November coming up, so it's not too late to book me for your event.
A little plug there. Mm-hmm. You know, uh, it, it's not too late to do that, but, [00:57:00] you know, it used to be just in November and, and what I feel.
Showcasing Native Culture Year-Round
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Greg Victors: Now as, as I'm really proud of, that's something that I've been able to, to do, uh, personally, is that I've always said it's not just about November, you know, you can celebrate our culture all year long.
It doesn't have to be Thanksgiving, it doesn't have to be native November. You can celebrate our people throughout the year because we've been here, we are here and we want to be included. And so now I I, I work all year long, you know, I, I've had an opportunity to be independent and do this for a living and so.
You know, I, I, I'm booked for festivals. I'm, I'm booked for events. Mm-hmm. That will, you know, people will reach out to me and that's all it is. Just, if you have an event, just reach out to me, you know? And, and you never, you, you always, I, I always hear people that, well, we don't know. We didn't wanna offend you if, if we ask if you could be a part of this.
And I was like, no, we, we, you know, we like Cinco de Mayo too, you know, you know, we like Christmas, we like holidays, you know, we, we, uh, we, we'd love, I'd [00:58:00] love to be included. And so, you know, just this year, uh, it's like I, I I'm constantly busy now throughout the year and I, and I, I, I like that. I like to feel like I've been able to, to convince people that, you know, we have a beautiful culture.
We're year round, you know, and, and we have a lot of knowledge. We have a lot of ability to be able to, to showcase, uh, our, our, our native heritage in a way. Uh, that's, um. Positive and, and, and full of energy and full of, uh, knowledge. So yeah, it's, it's been a, it's been a wonderful time to be able to do that.
And like I said, I'll, I'll do this as, as long as the creator wants me to do this. So
Sydney Collins: we had a, this is kind of a tangent, but, uh, let's go on a tangent session. A couple, a couple weeks ago, um, maybe a month ago, it seems like yesterday we were able to have, um, Dr. Shield chief, um, Grover on, and he's part of the Ponty Nation.
Yes. Um, but he's a, a professor at ku. [00:59:00] And so one of the things that really resonated with me out of his conversation was he goes, we're still people. We're still here today. We're not the past.
Greg Victors: Right, right. And
Sydney Collins: that was, we, we talked about a variety of different things in that conversation, but that was the one thing that really.
Um, stuck out to me. Um, and then now that we're having these conversations, there's other thing, other events that, um, are around Kansas that people do have an opportunity to learn the history piece of it, but it's also making sure that you're learning something from those. So if you, um, are down in Medicine Lodge and do, um, oh, Tanner, I'm blinking now.
Peace Treaty. Um, uh, they have, um, that event where, um, they have the big powwow every couple years mm-hmm. To where go ask questions, go learn. Um, there's a, a couple different things like, uh, um, [01:00:00] Tanner's gonna help me have to help me out here, um, at Refuge Mountain Men. Um, well, they'll bring people in. Um.
Some of them are native and so, um,
Gus Applequist: mountain Min Rendezvous. Yeah. Rendez de Yeah, I've heard of that. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Um, to again, learn how things were in like 1850 and how people lived on the land and how, um, so again, I'm going on a tangent here. I don't know if this is really a question or not. Um, but just encouraging people to listen and learn and it's not just entertainment.
Greg Victors: Yeah, most definitely. Um, you know, uh, that, that's extremely true. We are here, you know? Mm-hmm. Despite what we've been through. Um, you know, what the, the atrocities that we've had to endure and the things that we've had to, to live through.
Historical Atrocities and Resilience
---
Greg Victors: Um, you know, we're, we're coming up. Uh, I know this'll be, this will probably, I think is gonna be in [01:01:00] October Yeah.
When this comes out. But, you know, we're getting close to nine 11. You know, and, and one of the, what we start seeing is never forget, never forget those bad things that happen. Never forget, you know? And so a lot of times people say, well, that happened to you a long time ago. Well, that didn't even happen to you.
It happened to your people. Well, it's the same philosophy. Never forget, we're never gonna forget Wounded Knee, we're never gonna forget Sand Creek Massacre. We're never gonna forget, uh, Ponca Trail of Tears, you know? So we, we just like the average person, we, we want to be able to honor, uh, those sacrifices that people made.
And we're still here, but, you know, along to like how you be, you were talking about, you know, we are here, we're, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're just kind of in the crowd. And, and you might not see us unless I'm, I'm like this, but, you know, uh, we, we we're, we're average people. We, we love to, to go out and do things.
Balancing Cultures and Living Fully
---
Greg Victors: I, myself, I. Big Sinatra fan. I love jazz. I, I love being able to put on a nice suit, you [01:02:00] know, and, and I just, uh, en enjoy my life and, and, um, like to do things out in, in, you know, the world. And, but you know, I always, uh, I always, like I said, that goes back to, to balancing and, and walking in both cultures and being productive in both, you know, you're only here and we're not guaranteed.
Uh, tomorrow. So it's a short time. We're not, we're not promised tomorrow, you know, and, and so we have to make the best of it and, and live in that way.
Encouraging Engagement with Native Events
---
Greg Victors: But yeah, I really encourage people for, for events that are coming up and to reach out to the native people there, there's always, there used to be this, this, uh, you know, it's almost like native people.
We're, we're, we're, we don't want to offend them, so let's just leave them alone. Well, we don't want that either. That's almost. Just as offensive. Mm-hmm. You know, we don't want, we don't want to, we wanna be sensitive and, and we don't want to, we don't want to offend them in some way, so we're not gonna invite them.
So I get that a lot. Well, we always aren't sure that, you know, this would be something you would be interested. And I'm like, yeah, anything we can put our native people and, [01:03:00] and, and out there and then it, it, it helps people understand us more. You know, there's a lot this, you know, this country was built on, on immigrants, you know, and, and there's a lot of immigrants here and it seems like we know about these immigrants and this immigrants, but it's like our, our own native people that were here, we're still kind of a mystery.
And so now we're being, uh, put out in the forefront and, and we're, we're coming to events and we're doing certain things and there is a lot of learning to be done. And, and it's not just entertainment. Um. It's a big part of our, our culture that we're, we're recognized as our contributions, like I said, the code talkers, um, um, a descendant of, of one of our great chiefs, the chief standing bear, um, who won a pivotal case.
It was the first Native American to ever take a case writ of habeas corpus and, and to the court. And, uh, Juan, the very first, uh, United States court case as a ponca proving that all natives are [01:04:00] people. We we're just, people we're, you know, that's all we were fighting for. That we are human and we were subject to be protected under the Constitution.
And so we, we have a lot of different things that, that we can be proud of as native people. And so yeah, bring, you know, have that opportunity, uh, to showcase our, our native culture and our native people. And, uh, you know, it's, it's a wonderful, beautiful time to be able to do that.
Closing Thoughts and Gratitude
---
Gus Applequist: Well, thank you so much for taking so much time to, to be here with us today.
No problem. And showcase who you are and, and tell us more about yourself. Um,
Greg Victors: is that, is that our time really? I feel like we just got started. We could probably
Sydney Collins: be here for another hour. Yeah. But I think I only got halfway through my questions. I was like, I got all ready to go
Greg Victors: now. I'm now this is it. No, no.
I, I enjoy it. And like I said, you guys, uh, I'm extremely proud and I know he's not here, uh, on camera with us, but Tanner, you know, as a part of [01:05:00] this program. Mm-hmm. And he reached out to me, uh, have a little relationship with him. We've been working on several projects, uh, for the past couple years. And the guy's really talented.
And so when he asked me to do this, I was like, yeah, put me on the schedule. Let's love it. Let's, let's make this happen. And, and, and so, you know, I'm, I'm extremely, uh. Happy for him. So I want to give him a, a nice thank you for, for suggesting me to be, to be on air with all of you guys. And I thank you for your time and you know, keep doing what you're doing.
I, I, I think, you know, Kansas is one of those states that has kind of had a, its own misconceptions throughout the years, but, you know, this is a beautiful place. I've, I've lived on the east coast, the west coast, and, uh, different places across the world and, and, you know, Wichita's home, you know, it's a, it's, there's a lot of beauty in, in just the lifestyle here.
And believe it or not, people are friendlier here. I tell people that all the time and, and they're like, really? I was like, no, Kansans were, they're friendly people, you know, and so. [01:06:00] Yeah, everybody has conflicts where they're from. Mm-hmm. You know, um, might not like the politics, might not like the way things are being handled or this, but you know, when it comes down to it, you know, we're here.
And the way I see it, I, I was put here to be able to do what I do and, and, and I do my best to be able to represent Kansas and uh, our native people just all over. So thank you guys for having me on and it was a good time. Thank you.
Sydney Collins: Thank you. Yeah. Want to spread your organization's message across Kansas?
Consider becoming a sponsor. Ask a Kansan has unique focus on Kansas and its people by sponsoring our podcast. Your organization can reach people from Cando to Kansas City, Wichita, Washington, and all the great places in between. We have a variety of sponsorship packages available To fit your budget and needs for more information, visit ask a kanza.com/sponsorships or call us at (785) 571-9507.
We hope you enjoyed the [01:07:00] conversation with, um, Greg, uh, the Wichita War Dancer. I feel like I just nodded and smiled a lot, that whole conversation, but it's just his passion just shows through and that's like, I feel like that's all you can do. Mm-hmm. Is just make sure that you're. Getting all of the amazing information and passion that he's just, that just pours out of him.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. It struck me that, that there's a lot of, of cultural differences in the way we communicate.
Sydney Collins: Oh, yeah.
Gus Applequist: And, um, I got that both from the details of what he was saying, but also how he said it, that like, um, he kind of encircled the topic and, and kind of looked at it from different angles in his conversation.
Another thing that kind of struck me from from that was, I don't know how many conversations I've had with Native Americans, to be honest with you, and, and the, the realization that [01:08:00] like, uh, we're both humans, but, uh, you know. It's, it's weird to say this, but his ancestors were here like much longer ago than mine.
Like, I don't know how else to say it. Like, I just don't think about that very often. Mm-hmm. You know, that, that, that, uh, yeah. That I don't think of myself as an immigrant, I guess. Mm-hmm. But compared to him, in some ways I feel like I am an immigrant.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. I don't know much about like, my family history other than like my grandpa was, you know, half Syrian.
My dad, I think is some type of European, 'cause I have a, I have a lot of adoptions in my family. Mm-hmm. But, um, yeah, it's just something, I think it's more of an educational thing for me is, and you touched on this a little bit, and we touched on this, um, a little bit too when we talked to, um, Dr. Uh Carlton.
Yes. Um, is. The history that we're just like, not, not necessarily [01:09:00] not taught like it's on purpose or anything, it's just it's not covered in your normal, we have
Gus Applequist: a blind spot.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, ed, like in your normal education. Mm-hmm. Especially I feel like in Kansas and in the Midwest and in the Plains, I'm sure it's like that also on the coast, that there's stories and histories that we have zero idea about.
But, um, in the plains there, there are so many other stories that we just. Don't know about, just 'cause it wasn't part of the educational system
Gus Applequist: when, when he said that there were a hundred million native Americans here. Mm-hmm. That is mind boggling. Yeah. Like I, um, I think we have this, I think I've said this on the podcast before too, that, um, when European explorers and settlers came to the United States, they had preconceptions about what they expected to find.
Yeah. And, and in many ways what they found far exceeded those expectations. Like there, there were, uh, you know, especially in Central America, there were civilizations that they visited that were far more advanced than the ones that left [01:10:00] in, in Europe. Mm-hmm. And, um, yeah, I just feel like we have so much to learn and I'm so eager to, to learn more.
Yeah. Um, so yeah. Hope you enjoy that conversation.
Sydney Collins: Um, I get, look in the, uh, description below. There'll be links. We'll link all of, um, that information, so mm-hmm. Yeah. Hopefully more conversations will.
Gus Applequist: And yeah, I, you know, we say this a lot, but if there's conversations that you think we need to have, be it with another Native American or another people group culture that we
Sydney Collins: are just not aware of, to be honest.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. We love it when people point out our blind spots. So yeah. Talk to us.
Sydney Collins: Okay. I see we're in the rectangle on the screen. Yeah. Yes,
Gus Applequist: yes, indeed. We have a, uh, we're in the rectangle for you today. Okay. I'm gonna put my paper over, um, and I'm, I'm changing things up today, so. Okay. Today's theme is made in Kansas.
Oh. And rather than have you guess where things are, I'm gonna have you, I'm gonna give you three clues and then you're gonna have to tell me what the product is.
Sydney Collins: Oh, no. It's made
Gus Applequist: in Kansas. Okay. Okay. [01:11:00] Um, are you ready in there? Cool. All right. Okay, here we go. So, round one,
Sydney Collins: ding, ding, ding.
Gus Applequist: This product is made in Bush, in Kansas, and here are your three clues.
A Kansas original that can turn a quiet evening into a lively soundtrack. Two, it's an odd cone over bowl silhouette that doesn't look like other cookware. So hint, it's some sort of cookware. And three, last year Kansans crown it as the state's coolest thing,
Sydney Collins: cone over bowl cookware.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm. And it makes noise
Sydney Collins: and it makes noise.
Oh, is it some kind of popcorn? Yes. You got it.
Gus Applequist: Very good. I'm proud of you. Uh, uh, it is Adam Popcorn Popper. Ah, since 1952. Uh, yeah. It's still made in Bush tin by Quinn Craft Products. It's a clever aluminum design that keeps kernels from burning. [01:12:00] And yeah, in 2024, Kansans voted at their People's Choice.
Coolest thing made in Kansas. So we'll go on round two. Uh, this one you can be found in Goddard and Mulvane, Kansas. There's two locations. Oh. Um, it is classic Road trip fuel with Serious Chew. Okay. Um, it is salty and savory, and finally it lasts a while.
Sydney Collins: Is it some type of beef jerky?
Gus Applequist: Bingo. See, you were really on it today.
I'm, I know my snacks. Yeah, from Stru Lockers down there. Popcorn
Sydney Collins: and Beef Jerky. Yeah, this, you're right down Sydney's alley.
Gus Applequist: Uh, the str family's butcher shops and Goddard and Mulvane have been producing jerky, snack sticks and brats since late 1970s. Recipes. So good. They've won awards across the country,
huh?
Yeah.
What do you know? And I see you didn't bring samples, so I'm so sorry. This, this came together today so I didn't have time to just run down to mul. I'm so sorry. Um, oh, next, uh, run three takes us to Wichita. [01:13:00] Oh, no. Um, this is found at the very front of an airplane, not for looks, but for lift s size one, two, sometimes the pitch adjusts automatically.
Sometimes it's fixed, and number three, without it, an engine makes a lot of noise, but goes nowhere fast.
Sydney Collins: Okay, so it's makes the engine go. Is it a prop?
Gus Applequist: Yeah, it's Macauley aircraft. Propellers made in Wichita. Macauley has been making propellers since the 1930s, which is, you know, about as long as planes have been around. And today their aluminum and composite models are in service on 350,000 plus aircraft worldwide.
Wow. So that's pretty cool. Alright, round four. This is, this is a new community for me. M Kansas
Sydney Collins: M, okay. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And this product is made from yesterday's harvest, which is recycled farm steel put back to work. It is trusted by gardeners, trail [01:14:00] crews, and even wildland firefighters. And it is tough enough to chop, scrape, and dig all with one thing swing.
Excuse me.
Sydney Collins: Is it a machete? This, this is
Gus Applequist: kind of like a family of things. It's not really one thing, so,
Sydney Collins: oh, is it just like shovels and stuff? Is it Yeah, pretty much. Gardening utensils. It's,
Gus Applequist: it's Rogue Hoe Tools, uh, manufactured in Munden by ProHoe Manufacturing. Uh, each hoe is made from recycled agricultural disc blades.
That's how they're Oh, that's brilliant. That's they brilliant. Mm-hmm. And yep. They, their tools are, are used in backyards and wildfire lines and have a, a national reputation. I also noticed like they have a very unique logo. Um, yeah. If you're, if you're listening to the podcast, I would describe it as like a, an elephant head with tusks and like bat wings for ears.
Yeah. I don't know how
Sydney Collins: it's like it was shadowed incorrectly, almost like it's supposed to. [01:15:00] Uh,
Gus Applequist: I'd love to talk to someone at rogue. Tell
us about your logo.
Sydney Collins: It kind of looks like. Leaves in a way.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm. And the, the trunk of the elephant seems to be holding like a maple leaf
Sydney Collins: or something. I think it's holding like stuff from the ground, like stuff you hoe up.
Ah, like leads,
Gus Applequist: ah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes way more sense than a maple leaf.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. That's definitely not a maple leaf. I don't know what maple leaf you're looking at, but that's not a maple leaf.
Gus Applequist: Alright. Uh, doing pretty good here is round five. Oh my gosh. We, my, there's more. I like this game, Mound Ridge, Kansas.
This is one of my favorites. My Okay. Known for cutting sharp stripes. Steered with two levers and its name makes you think of something small and jumpy, but this machine definitely isn't.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: I feel like I'm a riddle master now. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: This one is hard cut stripes, [01:16:00] two levers, but bouncy has a bouncy name.
I wanna say it's some type of like mound ridge. This is something I should know.
Gus Applequist: You, you definitely know this. I've just gotten creative with my clues.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. 'cause it's not coming.
Gus Applequist: I'm gonna give you a one word hint that should fix it. Okay. Lawn.
Sydney Collins: Lawn. Oh, I'm assuming a lawnmower. It's grasshopper.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Good job.
Grasshopper. Um, which I have to, I have to admire Grasshopper for sticking to their guns. All these years. Their, their product. That's a logo. Well, yeah. Their logo and their product design has, I mean, I'm sure it has progressed. It's not gone anywhere in 70 years, but their color scheme and their basic look has not changed.
It is, yeah, it is very consistent. Um, and I think they have a really good reputation from what I hear. Yeah. So there you go. You have it or sorry. So there you have it. Uh, uh, [01:17:00] popcorn popper, road trip jerky, airplane propellers, hose made from Kansas Farm Steel and mowers. Tough enough for big league fields, all made in Kansas.
And that's your wearing the rectangle for, uh, this episode.
Sydney Collins: Well, awesome. Okay. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Did you have anything for today?
Sydney Collins: I have my flowers here.
Gus Applequist: You, yeah, you're gonna have to tell our audience about your little hobby here. Alright.
Sydney Collins: So I have talked a lot on the podcast. Try not to put these directly in front of my face about my ditch flowers.
So it is fall, which means all of the sunflowers and yellow flowers are um, out. But here I wanna point out, so if you are ever on a country road, there are different types of flowers. Do I know the names of them? No. Do I notice them? Yes. So, for instance, not all yellow and brown flowers are sunflowers. For instance, this little guy, you see how his petals, her petals, I don't know, um, are pointy in shape rather than rounded.
Like our little friends over here, [01:18:00] different yellow and brown flower. But this little guy, let's see. These little guys are, do, do, do, where'd you at, are rounded on the ends. Um, or am I pointing to the same thing? I might be pointing? There's there is a third type, no. Okay. So these are pointy and long too.
These are pointy and long, these are a little rounded and long, but then you have your normal, like traditional sunflower, which is, um, short and rounded. Hmm. So one, there's three different
Gus Applequist: types. Syl, Syl, that
Sydney Collins: I don't know. We'll have to take a picture of it. And we
Gus Applequist: need, we need biologists to come tell us
Sydney Collins: We need a flower People.
Uh, who are the flower people? Horticulturists. There you
Gus Applequist: go. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: That's what we need. Um, and then obviously you, I like picking all the tall grasses in the grains and all the fun stuff. I have zero idea what these little purple things are called, but I love them.
Greg Victors: Mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: Uh, one of these days I will learn the [01:19:00] names.
It's not gonna be today.
Gus Applequist: I want to PII said in introducing this, that, uh, to introduce your little hobby, it's a beautiful hobby and you do a great job with it. Yeah. Um, and
Sydney Collins: it's my little ditch flowers. It's
Gus Applequist: cool that you find these things in ditches, underappreciated and, and make something really,
Sydney Collins: I was picking, I was picking some this past weekend.
I was telling this story to everyone. I'll tell it to the world now. So, um, I was on my way to pick, go from McPherson to Salina. Decided to just take a couple back roads to see what I could find. Um, 'cause I knew stuff was blooming. And so I ended up, um, right next to this farmer's house, did not realize I was next to his house when he comes out on his a TV.
Looking at me real weird in his, in, in the ditch of his freaking field. And I go, I'm sorry, I'm picking all your flowers. He goes, baby, those are weeds. I was like, well, they're flowers to me. He goes, pick away and then just leaves[01:20:00]
Gus Applequist: one man's wheat. One man's wheat is another's. He
Sydney Collins: treasure. Mm-hmm. Um, I will, a couple of things that I have learned. Um, while doing this, make sure to shake them out. Um, or you will get some critters in your car that you're kind of stuck with, that you can't get out and it freaks your kids out. Um, I have brought home giant grasshoppers before on accident, um, and some fun spiders and other bugs.
So yeah, if you
Gus Applequist: decide to do this, be very careful with where you park and Yes. And you know, if you're seeing lots of signs around that are saying not to to, yeah. Be careful where you go.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Like pay attention to what's going on. Don't just like, Ooh, this is a pretty flower. No, but pay attention to where you're at.
Gus Applequist: If you do create something like this, please send us a picture. 'cause it's great to see what's possible. Mm-hmm. Uh, with, yeah.
Sydney Collins: Also, um, you can start. Getting seed [01:21:00] packets for perennials. Um, now I think there's some that you can plant in the fall to where they're ready in the spring, and then you can cut your own flowers in your own front yard.
That's what I'm gonna start doing next year because I'm over buying flowers. I am perennial all the way. Nice. I'm done with it.
Gus Applequist: I have. Okay. I have two random, uh, flower based tangents. Uh, Hannah and I for my birthday, uh, since I'm a huge space geek. We went down to the Cosmos sphere. Yeah. And we, when we were there, we saw a documentary about the Monarch migration.
Oh. Which was unbelievable. It was an older documentary, but to. Beautiful. And um, so it kind of got us excited about having like a butterfly garden. And so we, we planted one. Um, and the farmers out there are gonna hate me 'cause we did plant a little bit of milkweed, which is what? The monarchs Oh yeah.
That's the only plant the monarchs will lay their eggs on. Mm-hmm. Which is just crazy. Or their place, their cocoons. I don't know what, how, one of thanks. Um, but it's incredible how many butterflies we [01:22:00] have really around our whole house now. They're everywhere. It's, it, I mean, we didn't used to have any butterflies.
Now they're all there. So, uh, yeah. If you're interested in that, give yourself a, a, a chance to plant a butterfly garden. Yeah. The other thing I was gonna say, this is just a random story and because we can fill time with random stories, um, as, as a little nerdy sixth, seventh grader, I, I did a thing at our local community access television, uh, where our coworker Devin worked for a while.
Yeah. Um. They had a thing called Tuesday Night Television where all us nerdy kids would go there, and then they would have us basically produce a television show. It was one of the first times I was around cameras and, you know, really excited about all this. And, um, there was a gentleman who had a show that we produced several times.
I don't remember his name. I, I think he was with Pet Pets Flowers here in Salina. Okay. But he did flower arranging on camera. Mm-hmm. And he had the little spongy [01:23:00] block and stuck stuff in it. So every time I watch somebody, uh, arrange flowers, like I watched you work on this a little bit earlier. I'm reminded of that, uh, of that time in that, in the movie studio or the TV studio.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: So, sorry. That's my A DHD brain coming out.
Sydney Collins: No, it's all good. All right. Well that is our time for today. Um, thank you for, if you've lasted this long, make sure to like, subscribe, share with someone. Um. Yeah,
Gus Applequist: the best way you can support the podcast is tell one other person about the podcast. Yeah. Um, it makes all the difference for us.
Have a conversation. Yep. We'll see you next time on.