Teach Me About the Great Lakes

Stuart goes solo (Marc Maron-style!) to talk with Dr. Rosalyn Putland about her fascinating research on the soundscape ecology of Lake Superior.

Show Notes

Rosalyn's paper "A song of ice and vessels: Seasonal trends in the soundscape of the western arm of Lake Superior".
Wikipedia: Bortle Dark Sky Scale
NOAA: What is a hydrophone?
Duluth Grill
Canal Park

Host & Executive Producer: Stuart Carlton
Co-Host: nobody :(
Producers: Hope Charters, Carolyn Foley, Megan Gunn, & Irene Miles
Associate Producer: Ethan Chitty
Edited by: Quinn Rose
Podcast art by: Joel Davenport
Music by: Stuart Carlton

Creators & Guests

Stuart Carlton
Stuart Carlton is the Assistant Director of the Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant College Program. He manages the day-to-day operation of IISG and works with the IISG Director and staff to coordinate all aspects of the program. He is also a Research Assistant Professor and head of the Coastal and Great Lakes Social Science Lab in the Department of Forestry & Natural Resources at Purdue, where he and his students research the relationship between knowledge, values, trust, and behavior in complex or controversial environmental systems.

What is Teach Me About the Great Lakes?

A monthly podcast in which Stuart Carlton (a native New Orleanian) asks smart people to teach him about the Great Lakes. Co-hosted by the awesome staff at Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant.

Disclaimer: This is an automated transcript, we apologize for any errors. If you notice any problems, please email the show at teachmeaboutthegreatlakes@gmail.com. Thank you.

Stuart Carlton 0:00
teach me about the Great Lakes. Teach me about the Great Lakes. John, welcome back to teach me about the Great Lakes a twice monthly podcast in which i Great Lakes novice as people who are smarter and harder working than I am to teach me all about the Great Lakes. My name is Stuart Carlton and I work with Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant. I'm rolling solo today. That's right, I'm doing a solo podcast. We have a lot going on, and our CO hosts couldn't make it, but that's alright. If it works for Marc Maron. It worked for me. And so I will just do this Marc Maron style. And so what does that involve? I'm supposed to talk about myself for a little bit, and then we'll go straight to the guest. But I don't have a lot to say. And I don't have like a fascinating early career of comedy and debauchery to talk about. And even if I did, I wouldn't talk about it with you. But I don't so I think we'll just go straight to the guests. This is actually a cool guest. Her name is Dr. Rosalind Puntland. She studies soundscapes in coastal and marine bio or in marine and freshwater environments. And she's going to talk to us about some of her work in Lake Superior. It's kind of a cool paper that I'll put a link to in the show notes on how things go in the ER on the soundscapes and Lake Superior and she's going to share that research with us. And I'm really excited. Both because I think the research is fascinating and because she's a researcher, which means it's time for you know what?

Research researcher teaches about the Great Lakes. Our guest today is Dr. Rosalynn Pentland. She is a senior scientist at the Center for the environment in fisheries in the UK. But up until recently, she was a postdoc in the Great Lakes area. That's what we're talking about today, Rosalynn, how are you today?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 1:51
I am great. Thank you. How are you?

Stuart Carlton 1:53
I'm really good. I'm so excited to talk about this. So the name first of all, the name is good. But the name of the paper that we want to talk about today is a song of ice and vessels, seasonal trends in the soundscape of the Western arm of Lake Superior. And I think the coolest thing about this is that you actually completed it, which with that naming scheme, you know, maybe maybe you wouldn't have left but you did. So this is about soundscape ecology right. What is soundscape ecology Exactly.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 2:17
That's a great question. A lot of people don't know a soundscape as you know what a landscape is right? It's your round around us every day, we go outside. And there's birds and trees and rivers if you're in a really nice house, somewhere in the middle of the woods, or those roads with cars and things like that. So when we're talking about the soundscape, we're talking about the sounds that are emitted by all of those things that you see around you, except just close your eyes, and what are you listening to. So that's the soundscape. I have been working in this for the last 10 years and in a variety of different habitats. So whether it's Marine, and then luckily, this latest paper of mine is on a freshwater environment, which is so exciting. And I'm really looking forward to talking to you about it today.

Stuart Carlton 2:58
Yeah, great. So okay, so soundscapes are the different sounds that are out there, right as we walk around, sometimes natural sometimes not. Like right now if I close my ears, I can hear an air conditioning, that's part of my current soundscape. It's a really crappy window unit. So if you see me start to sweat, it's not your fault. It's mine. But But what what is the ecology part? So so so we know what the soundscape is what what kind of things do you study, I guess, with the ecology part of it generally, and then we can move into this paper specifically.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 3:26
Yeah, so the ecological side of it comes from both the interaction of sounds with how we behave, or the animals that I study how they behave. So, you know, if you weren't back 1000 years ago, you animals would have only been listening to each other, to the sound of wind and waves or rain, as well as their, you know, similar species or in predators and prey. But now, we're also looking at the kind of interface with humans. So what are we creating what sounds that we getting in the environment? So whether that be in a trust or system cars, planes, or in the aquatic environment, vessels, ice augers, fishing vessels, anything like that,

Stuart Carlton 4:06
so all these things in the right in the guests terrestrial environment in the aquatic one, are now part of the soundscape, and it has changed. I guess the different components that and you talked about this, that you have some fancy words, right. And so the words you use for your components if I remember and Lord knows I'll probably not pronounce these right but so we have geo phony is a phony or phony phony, bio phony. Isn't that a phony? Those are the components you're talking about? Let's talk about those kind of one at a time to understand what they are and how they might contribute. So the first one you talked about is geo phony. Tell me Tell me about

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 4:39
that. Yeah, so geo phony, you break it down all of these phony basically means sound. So geo is geological, predominantly activity. So kind of natural sounds, but nothing to do with animals. So in a soundscape those are mainly forms of weather, whether it be rain, wind, like ice movements as well. And then geological activity. So things like earthquakes and we can record earthquakes from from many miles away and actually pick them up through vibrations in the land, but then that can just pay into the air or the water environment as well.

Stuart Carlton 5:14
Okay, that makes sense. It's a lot of weather a lot of Earth as the Earth have, like, I guess the Earth has some sort of base level of noise, right that it makes.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 5:21
Yeah. When it's rumbling and all those tectonic plates moving around, out in the in the big ocean. Can

Stuart Carlton 5:26
you hear that tectonic plates? Do they make sounds that we can hear? I mean, outside of earthquakes,

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 5:31
I guess, I guess, which only really when the big earthquakes happen, that we pick it up as out

Stuart Carlton 5:36
or at least on our time, who knows what's happening on geologic timescales, right? Maybe there's stuff. Okay, bio bio Sony. So bio I can do this one. Bio means like having to do with life, right. And so, so bio phony is is the different sounds that animals make? Is that right? Is that like vocalizations? Or is it you know, if a fish wiggle Well, or an animal runs through the forest, maybe? That would that kind of spy or phony as well?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 6:01
I guess so. But we as scientists are maybe interested in their vocalizations. And but, you know, some animals can make kind of passive sounds as well, so then they're not necessarily known for it. You talk about fish actually wiggling and it's kind of like that. So some fish have like bony structures on their fins. And if they rub those against the rocks, that'll produce a sound but that's thought to be an active like, you know, they're they're deciding to make that sound they're not just you know, when they're moving along.

Stuart Carlton 6:28
So here you're more interested in the ones I actively choose. And like you know, different fish drums make noises or what's the what's the fish that oh my god, I even picked it in our draft. The fish that makes all the sound wallets reproducing? Bourbon bourbon bourbon

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 6:44
Babbitt? Yes. Is that it? That's the only freshwater cod species. And then some of the fish that most people will be will be familiar with. Because they sound like on a matter payer, the what they call it basically, is what they sound like. So drums grunts. Yeah, exactly. Right. They sound like

Stuart Carlton 7:02
okay. And then Anthro propone Would you consider separate from bio phony? Just I think because it's easier to classify it that way. I assume even though people's people are people are alive. But if they're performing that's, that's human based noise. And so that tends to be like we consider machines and things like that. Is that right?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 7:18
Yeah. Yeah. So things from human activity, which you know, it doesn't necessarily have a negative connotation. More so now people think of like the effects of noise produced by people. But yeah, that's activity planes. People walking on ice when lakes freeze over. All of that produces sound environment.

Stuart Carlton 7:40
Sure. And as you said earlier, these are sounds that are relatively new, right, since I don't know the Industrial Revolution, or whatever, certainly in the last 1000 years.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 7:46
Exactly. Yeah. Yep. So we can, they can track it back that when industrial revolution happened, suddenly sound became a thing.

Stuart Carlton 7:53
Yeah. Suddenly, we started exerting ourselves, or at least speaking. Oh, yeah. So this has been studied in marine systems more than than Lake systems. And so I guess my question is like, so what is the soundscape like in? So you studied? I can't remember it was Lake, superior, Western arm, right? And so in Lake Superior, like, if you want to characterize the soundscape, how would you characterize it?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 8:16
Well, actually, Lake Superior is pretty quiet, in the grand scheme of things. So what I was listening to is in the western arms close to Duluth, and superior, which are the two of the major ports in the Great Lake. And so there was a lot of vessel activity during the summer months, right when those commercial vessels transiting along the coastline for various activities. But then, during the winter months, Duluth is one of these cool ports that actually closes, because of the the ice cover. And during the time when I was recording, it was 100% ice cover at certain times. And so it was shut down for almost, I think it was six weeks, eight weeks. And so that meant you suddenly removed that kind of component of anthropogenic activity. And that was super cool to see. Because what what we'll do then able to hear, and you know, we started to pick up potentially some some biological sounds, maybe different different species of fish. And then you can hear it, you know, ice movement, and it's this super airy core sound that I mean, I think of it as like a Star Wars sound to me, where you can hear like the ice cracking and crunching and moving on the surface of the water.

Stuart Carlton 9:29
One thing you said, Is that also you start to hear more fish species, right? Is that because they weren't making noise before? Or that they were harder to hear with all the ship traffic and everything?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 9:41
That is the question that I honestly don't know the answer to. Because, you know, when you have human activity, it's very loud in the environment. And so it has this kind of activity called masking. So what we generally term it as, where you can't hear maybe what could be going on at the same frequency. The because it's much quieter. So it's also sometimes called like, the room effect, you know, when you go to a party, and lots of people are talking at once, and you can't hear the person talking next year, kind of the same concept in a soundscape, that, you know, one fish might not be able to hear another one, because of all the activity going on around. So during the summer months, they these fish could be making sound and we just weren't able to pick it up. And at that time, but then during the winter, we are suddenly able to hear all these fish and, and it's kind of they're almost got their own own niche in the in the environment. And you know, when it's quiet, let's all talk to each other. And then when it's loud, they might stop that, as I say, as a question that is going to be for future work?

Stuart Carlton 10:44
Sure, sure. So we don't know. But so it's, I mean, you don't want to catastrophize right. And it has been like, you know, but you could see that, potentially, that the sounds could really be disruptive them. And if the animals can't find each other, especially because I don't actually I'm not alone. knowledges. But I would imagine when you get the ice cover, things get pretty dark in the lake. And I would think that sound becomes relatively more important, right. And so if they can't hear each other, because of masking, or because they shut up to listen to the ships roll, I guess I can be bad.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 11:16
Yeah, and that's what various managers on for different organizations are looking into. Because this is now like the new pollutant of the environment is noise pollution. And so you know, it's now coming into legislation in various countries that we have to control how much noise is produced by different types of vessels? That could be things like speed reductions put in place in certain busy areas, because the slower a vessel is actually the quieter it is normally. And so you know, slowing down traffic in particular environments where there's species that we're interested in could be beneficial. Oh, geez. Yeah. So a lot of so but it's a positive thing. We are looking at the levels of noise in various areas. And you know, hopefully, it means there's gonna be more environmental management in the future.

Stuart Carlton 12:03
Yeah, I hadn't thought about it. I mean, it's all told me about it's a form of pollution. So so the other kind of weirdo form of pollution that you didn't learn about necessarily when you were a kid? Well, I didn't learn about when I was a kid was light pollution, right? And so they developed this thing I think it's called Well, I know, it's called because I just looked it up. It's called the bortle scale. And like they have these maps and everything. Is there a similar scale for sound pollution? Or is it kind of to nascent for that type to be the case,

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 12:28
it's very early days, in terms of management for that, you know, the more that we share different scientists in different countries, then hopefully, over time, that'll be a thing that we can map found in various areas. That's something I'm involved with, with my current job is I map sound in the North Sea and around Europe, with other countries. And we're kind of looking at that management system. Lake Superior and the Great Lakes, there's very little has been done in terms of sound. You know, this is one of the first papers that's been published on sound, as well as my colleagues who've worked on it in the past and, and you sort of hope that maybe in the future, more people are going to be interested in sounds in the Great Lakes.

Stuart Carlton 13:08
I mean, it's such a small field, I would assume that it's, it's, you got to find a couple of good researchers who are interested in that.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 13:14
Yeah. And and like soundscape ecology is not easy, because as many of the listeners will know, like, if you live around the Great Lakes or even small lakes in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, they freeze the half of the year and so suddenly, like, the ways you normally put equipment out, become not possible.

Stuart Carlton 13:34
Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that for a second. And then I'm gonna compare the freshwater to the Marine, but but so how do you measure this I'm envisioning? Well, actually, what I was originally envisioning was a graduate student with like a stick and a microphone on the end of the stick. And they have to sit there for like trends or like certain amount of time, but I'm guessing that's not how you actually do it.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 13:52
That's how it was done all school back in the day, somebody would go out with with headphones and stick a microphone underwater, and listen to the sounds. Now not so much. It tends to be very autonomous. So we actually put, it's called a hydrophone and underwater microphone, and it's all like a remote unit. And we deploy it on a very, very large weight at the bottom of Lake Superior. So it was about five meters above the lake bottom. And it had an acoustic release on it, as well as a load of other equipment. So basically, the vessel then goes back out a couple months later, and send it a ping and it pops out some some buoys and floats to the surface. And then you pick it up with a vessel, because obviously, you can't have anything on the surface a because you don't necessarily want people to know that you got expensive equipment underwater. That B when the ice comes, it would all just tear it all up. So it has to kind of be right underneath the ice.

Stuart Carlton 14:52
And so some of these Yeah, that's right. But some of these you left out for the entire iceberg. She must have had external battery packs or something like that.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 14:57
Yeah, they can last several months on I'm recording, I wasn't recording continuously, I was kind of recording for a little snippet every 10 minutes, just to kind of give you a little piece of information about what's going on. Yeah. And then we went back once the isotope cleared up, and we could get back on a boat and go out and pick up our equipment. And hopefully, it returned to the surface, which it did. So it's always a danger losing equipment when you work in the aquatic environment. But yeah, it's all there. And it was all good.

Stuart Carlton 15:25
That's good. I'm glad they're still there. And what a cool way to just submerge those in. But then you do kind of hope hope, hopefully at some telemetry or something so you could find them? If not, what's weird, the state of buoys in Lake Michigan, their their most famous things we do at Sea Grant are probably those data buoys this podcast excepted. Could we like put recorders on the bottom of the data buoys? Would that be something because they're out for like four or five months a year? Never during the winter because of the ice. But would that be I wonder if that's something we could do?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 15:53
Yeah, this is something that's been talked about, with actually collaboratives I've worked with and they've said, you know, you can put things from the surface, the only thing you aren't going to pick up a lot of is any surface movement. Oh, yeah. That happens if they kind of go up and down, up and down, you're gonna lay out a lot of bobbing motions, which, you know, you kind of have to live with what you can get. And, you know, if you if you can get out the boats going out to put that out then great.

Stuart Carlton 16:19
Yeah, that's interesting, because we have these temperature strings on him that measure temperature at depth every you know, X number. I don't know, it's in my deal. I'm a social scientist. But But I wonder if we could you know, duct tape one, two, Hmm, interesting. Well, I'm sure our partners have lost the Great Lakes observing Observing System, or, I'm sure and limb no tech, I'm sure they're thinking about this harder than I am. But that's, that's cool. But so I guess then the depth you set them that makes a difference, right? So what near the surface, you're gonna get any waves? I bet you could get rainstorms and things like that. Exactly. Yeah. is five meters? Is that just kind of something you picked? Or is it like? I guess we don't know. So and so you're, you're sort of limited in your worldview, to where your world? Sound, I suppose in terms of what what depth you chose, but fish may be or other animals may be at different levels? Right? Is there? Are there implications of that? Or is that just kind of how it is?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 17:09
Yeah, I mean, in the past, I've always put close to, you know, my record is close to the bottom, just to pick up any fish sounds really. Because, you know, you're kind of assuming there's gonna be a lot of activity around the lake, bottom, protected area, all of that. But they'll definitely be differences through the water column. And other folks, so Jay Austin, who's one of the co authors on the paper that I publish, you know, they've looked at acoustic levels through and hopefully that's going to be something that they'll be publishing in, in a few years time or in the coming months even.

Stuart Carlton 17:40
That sounds good. All right. Well, I forgot so so we found out about the winter ice and a little bit, but I realized I haven't even asked you for like the main deal in your paper, which is looking at seasonal trends, right? And so So I think broadly, what I would expect is right during the peak boating season, which is probably going to be summer, right? Because you get more recreational boating and you get whatever commercial stuff is happening in there, you're gonna be hearing a lot of both sounds right? And then if you can pick up, can you pick up weather that deep? Beyond ice, maybe you'll hear rain and stuff like that? And then maybe that'll change as the winter comes in. But But is that right? Or what is sort of the general trends that you found in your paper?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 18:15
You described it very well, actually, the season, okay. Yeah, the Great Lakes is a super cool ecosystem, the fact that you have such stark differences between winter and summer. So it's a fantastic ecosystem to work in, because you get that 100% ice cover potentially happening every winter port closures, and so you're kind of picking up, you know, an environment without genic activity, which was was really cool. But in terms of seasonal trends, yes, there is. So activity heightened in the middle of the summer months. And during sort of spring and the fall, we could pick up some weather activity. And I kind of, during my paper, I had an ice plot that kind of showed some of the types of activity that we picked up sort of week by week. And you can see that during the kind of spring and fall, you get a real mixture of everything. Whereas during the height of the winter, it's mainly ice, almost 100% Ice sounds. And then during the peak of summer, it's mainly 100%. vessels.

Stuart Carlton 19:16
Yeah, that's cool. But I think having a record of that is really important, right? A lot of times I, a lot of times what I say about sciences, a lot of science is sort of the art of proving the obvious, right? Because you need to establish that base before you can then do the next round of things. And so that's really, really critical. All right, a couple more questions that I think are important. What is the coolest thing that you heard? So when do you go through? Do you actually listen to all this? Or do you like do some sort of automated analysis, using I don't even know like waveform visualizations or something?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 19:47
So when we had the recording equipment out there, it was out for like a year and a half almost. So I can't listen to all of that. I would be here listening to them for the next time. Yes, basically. And so I actually listened to full moon and new moon recordings. A lot of people asked me why I do that. And that's because my next question, yeah, the light levels, you know, are at the peak during the new moon, and then the lowest during the full moon. And there's been a lot of studies showing that fish actually will vocalize more or less depending on lunar activity. When is brighter in the environment, they may be quieter, because you know, they don't want to make themselves heard. But then other species actually don't want to vocalize when it's dark, because they don't want to give away where they are. So I kind of chose these two, it's nice to pick those based on the lunar calendar. And it means that I'm not having to use like a random day calot calculator to choose what days of the month I choose.

Stuart Carlton 20:49
That's unbelievable that I didn't realize that it was that the moon had that big of an effect even far down in Lake Superior, that that's just stunning. To me, that's amazing that that fish and presumably other animals are that responsive to the face of the moon,

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 21:03
definitely, in the top few meters, at least. And then there are a lot of fish species that will kind of migrate up and down the water column during the day in the night period. So yeah, it's nice to have some sort of link to potential violence to your activity, when you choose your random days to listen to.

Stuart Carlton 21:23
That's really cool. Is there that same trend in marine as well, you know, being saying lunar trend and marine animal vocalization?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 21:32
Yeah, so that's where it's been found in particularly around reefs, to both rocky reefs and coral reef areas. This is a very significant trend. And so that's a lot of what I was basing my paper off, I was, I was gonna do the same thing in a freshwater environment, as they've found for many, many years in

Stuart Carlton 21:50
the Marine. And you found the same thing in the freshwater, then that's, that's really cool.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 21:54
I wouldn't say because I didn't have a huge number of fish sounds. And because I didn't have cameras, I can't identify what fish I was particularly listening to, I'm assuming it's fish and the paper actually just refer to it as biological sounds. Because I can't make the assumption even though there's not a lot of, you know, other vocalizing animals in the lakes. You know, when you're working in a marine environment, you could turn around and say what, it might be a marine mammal, or it might be a certain type of invertebrate. But here, yeah, so we're mainly thinking it's probably going to be one of those fish species.

Stuart Carlton 22:28
Yeah, yeah. Wow. That's really cool. All right. So when you're listening to so here's my question. What did you hear anything like really cool or unusual? You know, I mean, ideally, you would have heard like, some sort of sea monster or lake monster that was never been found before. You obviously wouldn't tell us about that, though. Because the government would be. So that's fine. I don't expect you to tell us about that. But But South of that, was there anything really kind of cool that you heard?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 22:52
I think, honestly, the ice sounds were the coolest things I had. I've also recorded in small lake environments. And I think the sound of people walking on ice is actually pretty cool. Some people think that's a bit like what, you know, hearing the crunching sound a couple meters below the letter surface is it's interesting to think okay, well, whatever is living underneath, actually can hear me walking along too.

Stuart Carlton 23:15
Well, this is really fascinating work. And I'm, I'm newly obsessed with a so there's a guy Brian pitch announced gets his name, and he does soundscape ecology at Purdue, and they've got an app and everything for some community science. And so I I've heard Brian speak about it. And he's got fancy microphones too. But But I hadn't really given it much thought until I saw this paper, which is so relevant. And this is just I am truly obsessed with underwater sounds in the Great Lakes. And so I really thank you for coming on to talk to us about that. But that's actually not why we invited you here on teach me about the Great Lakes this week. The reason that we invited me, invited you excuse me on teach me about the Great Lakes is to answer two questions. The first one is this. If you could choose to have a great donut for breakfast or a great sandwich for lunch, which would you choose?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 23:59
As a British person, I have to say a great sandwich for lunch, because I'm not a huge donut fan.

Stuart Carlton 24:06
Or they're not I don't know, or they're not donuts in the UK or what's the deal with that?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 24:11
They're you when you go to a beach. Maybe you might get them like a local stand. Yeah, Konstam a huge stone out person. I want to try the crow nuts though. They sound good.

Stuart Carlton 24:23
They sound good in a certain kind of way. Right? That's right. The lights lights look good on Coronas. I haven't had one either. Even I have limits. Okay. But so you were studying you were at the University of Minnesota right reopened Duluth? Yes, as a University of Minnesota Duluth. So when I go to Duluth to visit my Minnesota Sea Grant colleagues, I am going to go out to lunch and I'm going to get a sandwich where in Duluth should I go to get a great sandwich?

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 24:49
I would definitely recommend going to the Delete grill not only through their food but also for the carrot cake. That is

Stuart Carlton 24:56
amazing. Now this is not part of the question. However you I completely agree. I'm gonna go look at a picture of this carrot cake. Okay, great. And so the other thing that we're trying to do is part of the reason for this podcast is we want to encourage people to think of the to recognize what a amazing resource The Great Lakes are both, you know, scientific biologicals, other freshwater, but also a cultural resource. And so we'd like to ask our guests What if there's like a special place in the Great Lakes to them, or place that they'd like to share with our audience and maybe what makes it it's special.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 25:27
For me being a delayed and living there for almost three years. I used to just love, like walking along the coastline of Lake Superior. Just down in Canal Park. Or yeah, hiking along the coast. Yeah, it's, it's so it's just, it's a lovely place to be.

Stuart Carlton 25:49
That's wonderful. I thought you were gonna say five meters from the bottom of Lake Superior.

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 25:54
Well, I wish I could have gone that. That deep down. Yeah. A little bit cold for me to

Stuart Carlton 26:01
be cold. A little bit cold. Yeah, yeah. What is this? Well, you're five meters from bottom. I didn't ask and then I anyway, um, what is the depth? Their total in the area? Right. Where was it? Like 50 meter? I don't even know what the

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 26:10
depth is. Yeah, yeah. It was around 50 meters. Look at that.

Stuart Carlton 26:14
I don't know why, I guess that I just did. Well, this is really fascinating work. Like I said, I I encourage everybody to go check out the paper. Read it. We'll have links to it on our show notes at teach me about the great lakes.com/sixty The number six zero because this is some episode 60. But if people want to find out more about sort of these lakes observing, or maybe the work that you did now, there in the UK is probably somewhere different. But is there a good resource for people to go to? I

Dr. Rosalyn Putland 26:36
would suggest people check out the University of Minnesota Duluth, Biology Department page, as well as the Large Lakes Observatory.

Stuart Carlton 26:44
Great and look for those links in the show notes. And for now, Dr. Rosalind Pentland, a senior scientist at the Center for environment and fisheries in the UK, and former postdoc at the University of Minnesota. Thank you so much for coming on and teaching us all about the Great Lakes Thank you.

Again, fascinating interviews some really interesting work in soundscapes I'm yeah, cool stuff, right and another form of pollution, which is a little bit depressing. You know, it's amazing this sort of just the effect that we have on the environment all over intentional and unintentional.

Hey, everybody, this is Stuart I'm checking the box Jason because we have a breaking bit of information here. And that is that Rosalyn last night after we recorded was able to send me in two sounds from her actual recording device I should have asked if she named them she should have named them. But anyway, she sent me these sounds from her recording device and so I've got two of those here and so we're gonna get a chance to play them. And so I think that'll be cool to play them and listen to him. So this is what things sound like underwater and the first sound is called example fish sound on identified one so let's take a listen

wow, that's really rhythmic in the way that is and you can hear that that's that's really really cool. But then so that's the bio phony right but if you hear in the background, I don't know if that's just noise in the microphone with almost it does sound underwater, right. So you can probably hear some geophones in there too. Let's let's listen to that one more time. That was really cool

wow, that's neat. Okay, and then the second sound she sent is just called boat so I'm assuming that's some sort of a boat let's check that out too.

Whoa, okay, so you can really hear it must be about passing by the microphone. Right? You can hear it getting closer and getting louder and then and then fading off into the distance let's let's hear that one one more time.

That's cool stuff. That one actually reminds me of let me see if I can find the sound effect. Right here that reminds me of the THX sound you know, when you go to the movie theater, or I don't know if they still have those in the movie theaters, because I'm pretty sure the last movie I saw in the theater was the social network which would have been like 2010 or so. Because I know old and I have kids and you know life is busy. But Oh, that sounds a lot like the least used to play this sound in the theater a lot the THX sounds let's check that out now.

So maybe the fish can get their own movie theater together and just time it with the boats going by to test out their their sound system. Anyway, that's neat stuff, it really does go to show you, you know the amount of sound that we're creating potentially underwater with that boat stuff, and you can see why it might be disruptive. And it'll be interesting, potentially sad, interesting to hear how those studies, you know, as people continue to study this and study the effects, is it something that, you know, over a period of 100 years or more might start to have an effect on fish distributions or populations or it might, you know, create a new artificial or a new selective pressure, whatever, I'm not sure. We'll see what since we're here playing sounds of boats, we might as well go with our favorite boat sound, of course, from our friend Kevin bean, on the research vessel, the Guardian, which is being repaired right now. So it's not out this friend, the poor guardian. It's been a bit thanks to COVID Since it's done a lot. But we'll hear from The Guardian right now to what the heck

thanks to Captain Dean for that one. And thanks to you for listening. Now, like I said, I'm recording this the next day. So I don't remember exactly where we are where we're going to insert this. But we'll just put it in right now and of the breaking news segment. Thanks a lot, and enjoy what remains of the show.

That's gonna do it for this week's show. Thank you so much for tuning in. If this were like Marc Maron, this is the point at which you'd like chimes in with like, some guitar playing, I guess cuz you know, he plays guitar but to me, it's like well, who would be so egotistical and like arrogant to be like well now I'm gonna use this time to show my guitar skills. It's like what does that even do? You know, it doesn't really belong in the thing. Exactly. So I don't know exactly who would do that but it's not something that I

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