Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.
Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.
Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.
To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:00:24] Dan Ryan: Welcome. Today's guest is a leader in the hospitality and hotel management industry. He's passionate about maintaining teams of excellence. He's developed a leadership strategy called river guide leadership. He's forward focused to the future of the industry, and also has created a ton of leaders, ladies and gentlemen, the president and CEO of Chesapeake hospitality.
[00:00:47] Mr. Chris green. Hey Chris, how are you buddy? Hey, Dan.
[00:00:50] Chris Green: Good to see ya. Um,
[00:00:52] Dan Ryan: so through this whole pandemic, one of the things that has been great. For me. And also I think for the industry as, [00:01:00] as, as hard as we've been hit, um, it's just these new relationships that have fostered and to be able to connect with other leaderships who were supportive, uh, with entrepreneurs and, and vision and sharing.
[00:01:11] And like, I just want to put you into that category and it's been so great to get to know you over this past year and a half. So I just want to start off by saying thank you.
[00:01:20] Chris Green: Well, I agree, Dan, and I think that we've had, we've had some time on our hands to really think deeply about relationships. Yeah.
[00:01:29] How industries intertwined, how different types of industries might be able to do business as we emerged from this deep change in our world. And, uh, it's, it's really helped me to meet a lot of new people yourself included. I mean, it's been great to talk to entrepreneurs and in similar or Alignable industries that, that, that we can think about the future together and collaborate and really see what's possible.
[00:01:54] So I've, I've had a great time. That's been one of the bright spots with the pandemic, frankly.
[00:01:58] Dan Ryan: Yeah. Well, [00:02:00] and also in, in, through all of this and, and having you speak to this network of entrepreneurs that I'm involved with, one of the things that really struck me, that we didn't expound on as much, but I could tell it just from your heart, that, um, how at all costs you develop such a group of leaders that you work with and that no matter what was coming, you did everything in your power to keep those leaders.
[00:02:26] With you on and aligned. I was wondering like, T tell us about that whole process and coming out of that, because I think that that caring and sense of, um, allegiance is really going to inform the whole rest of our conversation because it's like, it's such a deal part of you.
[00:02:43] Chris Green: Sure, sure. I can't really point to a specific time in my career when it became.
[00:02:49] My ultimate priority. But at some point I'm guessing in my early to mid thirties, uh, when I realized that there was no important job that I had none in, in leadership, [00:03:00] none, then making sure that the rest of the leaders were better than I was that they had every tool, every capacity, every training opportunity.
[00:03:08] Um, because from the minute they became a leader there, her whole world was opening up ahead of them. And in our job, looking back as leaders who've been through, been around is, is not really telling them how it's supposed to be, but letting them see how it's going to be and let them define their future with us supporting them.
[00:03:26] So it was a huge shift for me and how I led my people, how I learned to lead my departments at that time or my own, and ultimately lead an organization like Chesapeake. But, but I've seen so many people thrive when we place. Listen, you can talk to all of them. Fortune 500 companies in the consults and they say, sure, you've got to invest.
[00:03:48] And you've got an investment. The truth is, is we really don't. We've got a lot of competing business priorities and what I had to do, and what we've had to do at Chesapeake is we've had to set aside these other competing business [00:04:00] priorities to make sure that the one thing that matters is our primary focus.
[00:04:04] And interestingly enough, all the other competing business priorities seem to really take care of themselves when you have great leaders at the house. And, um, I'm just really proud of what we try to do. It's if you draw out your career, if I drew out my career and said, someday, I would love to be in a position to influence 3,300 lives and help people see their positive future and see the outcome they want to see for their lives.
[00:04:29] I don't think I could have named what that title would have been, but it ended up being the job that I have now. So pretty exciting.
[00:04:36] Dan Ryan: Well, hearing you say, like at the helm and being a leader yeah. Um, this whole idea of, uh, of your river guide leadership. Um, I'm kind of, my brain is going back to like, I love studying ancient history and the whole and the Peloponnesian war and the Athenian Navy.
[00:04:56] And there was a time when they were going out [00:05:00] to Sicily to kind of take over, take over the island or retake over one of their colonies. I forget all the details. And then the Admiral who was in charge of these ships that went to go take it. Basically, they, they were all, they all offloaded onto the beach and then the Admiral burned all the ships and he's like, all right, go.
[00:05:17] So not saying that you burned all the shifts, but it's almost like this pandemic made so many decisions for us that that was almost like the ship burning. And then you're just forced with one way to go, which is forward. So like walk us through some of the really incredibly difficult times that you went through and what, what gave you hope.
[00:05:35] Chris Green: is twice in two weeks when I've been kind of confronted with some kind of ancient thinking, I on a complete side out and maybe we'll talk about it somehow we'll leave it in.
[00:05:44] But I was talking to somebody about the ship of Theseus, which is a thought experiment. I don't even know if you're familiar with it. No, I'm not, but maybe we can weave it into the leadership discussion, but this, so this is very interesting that twice in two weeks I talked about ancient ships. So listen, [00:06:00] we have core values at our company.
[00:06:02] And for me, core values are more than a statement on a piece of paper. There are literally how I live my life. One of our core values is integrity and integrity to me is either always true or it's not at all. It has to be always true. And that's a very difficult standard. So when we were faced with the ban that our company revenues were going to drop to near zero, who knew how long we had a choice to make, we had a choice to make of, if we believe what we said, that we care about our people and our culture and that our people are Chesapeake.
[00:06:34] And that was the difficult choice to make. But, you know, not one person on our board even hesitated when the decision was made to retain a hundred percent of our corporate team so that we would be the same company emerging on the other side as we're going in. Because the fact is, um, that, that this wasn't, this wasn't a normal industry downturn where companies have to shed a little bit of payroll or adjuster staffing.
[00:06:57] This was just a massive pause that was created by a [00:07:00] pandemic that no one in our lifetime has ever. So, how do you handle it professionally? I don't know. We just did it the way we know how to do it at Chesapeake and that meant leaning into our people. Um, so it was tough because I mean, as you can imagine, finances are tight and it was difficult, but when you'd have a group of partners, like I do that are committed to the same vision of people.
[00:07:22] First people, first people first, it sends a message to the marketplace. If you talk to some of our owner clients, I've received numerous, thank you letters from them of how we stayed the course that we didn't just jettisoned everybody and, and cut the, you know, cut to the bone and try and make it through that.
[00:07:39] We, we changed the way we did business to, to lean into our clients, to help them through the most difficult time in their, their investment careers or their own careers. And I think as I look back on this, I think we also did a great service to our leaders in our company, the next generation of leaders, because we showed them that.[00:08:00]
[00:08:00] You can make a tough decision. And the tough decisions often are ver are painful, but they're also very, very, can be very, very right and can create an outcome, which I would say, as I look at the marketplace now and how much we're moving forward aggressively, um, with development and growth opportunities that speak to the market about who you truly are and whether you really believe what you say.
[00:08:25] Dan Ryan: So w I get the feeling from our previous conversations, that those really difficult Congress, uh, really difficult decisions that you and your leaders made were all also around people.
[00:08:37] Chris Green: They were all around people. They were all around people. We did two things, uh, listen, the hotels. I mean, unfortunately at the hotel level, there was no revenues.
[00:08:46] There had to be, there was no way to keep the entire staff. I mean, we were. There just wasn't any, but what we did do immediately, and I've told a little bit of the story, other places is we broke our corporate teams into support for our exiting [00:09:00] associates support for our current associates and then support for our current clients.
[00:09:04] And then we also took a sales organization and we moved them into recovery planning immediately. Like they probably March 25th, 2020, we were in recovery planning and sale and marketing. So we had teams focused on the care of each individual constituency, and then we had the focus on the future. And so our, one of our core HR leaders took, and we built out a platform on our web page that helped all of our marketing associates know exactly where they've had to go every leak for every state resource of unemployment.
[00:09:38] Benefits training anything, job opportunities. We built up this platform and we spoke directly to that team to help facilitate them because the best we can do is care for them through this difficult time. And then we invested in time, you know, training for our corporate team and enhancing skillsets through the pandemic to make sure that our corporate team not only kind of stayed the course, but thrived and came out of it [00:10:00] stronger.
[00:10:00] And then we spend time focusing on our clients and made sure they knew that we turned all of our resources that were normally whether they're revenue generation or whatever, into capital preservation and cashflow planning to protect them and their assets through this. And I'm happy to say every one of our clients navigated the pandemic and is coming out of it now.
[00:10:18] So,
[00:10:19] Dan Ryan: yeah. And I'm curious though, like when you, when we really think about the state of the hospitality industry now and trying to get people to come back into. I know, like for instance, retail, with the onset of online, shopping, everything, 4 million jobs just evaporated, they were totally disrupted in hospitality.
[00:10:40] It's not disrupted, but I'm kind of getting the feeling from what I'm seeing, that people are a bit stung by that, and don't are a little nervous to come back into it. And I know like on all those difficult decisions that you made and that your team made, they were all surrounded around. People were the hardest ones.
[00:10:59] So like, how [00:11:00] are you seeing it now? And like, and kind of tying it back in, like, what gives you hope about getting people back into our amazing and
[00:11:08] Chris Green: I mean, no, that's it really, those are the most difficult to me. Financial decisions are easy business decisions. Whatever, how we're going to account for something, whether we're going to require something, those are all just math, whether they bear out or dump the people matter.
[00:11:24] Right. And that's one of my core leadership on the middle of this people and the person matters, not just the people that fills the job of executive housekeeper, the person and their wholeness as a person. So, so that matters. Um, I don't, I don't know, Dan, the difficulty, the difficulty around it is, is when we don't think like humans, when we think like business first, I think we have to think human first.
[00:11:51] And once we do that, the outcomes people know genuine caring, concern, they see it. And it doesn't mean that we, it [00:12:00] doesn't mean that we don't aren't good business people. I think we're excellent business people, but caring, concern for others and putting others first. It's just, it's just the right thing to do.
[00:12:10] I mean, we're in the hospitality business, so what's, what's the difference. You know, I was talking to, uh, a news publication two weeks ago and they said, well, what are you doing about the staffing crisis? And I said, I want, the first thing I'm doing is I'm putting my arms around my current state of people and loving on them as much as I can.
[00:12:27] Right. I want them to know how much we appreciate them and how much we respect and admire the job they did for the past 16 months. And no one's ever been through it. And they set a new standard for excellence, you know, just really grabbing a hold of them and making sure they feel loved because the last thing I can do is have somebody to beat.
[00:12:45] Dan Ryan: So, uh, this might actually be a kind of a leading question to like my main question. I ask it, all of these, but I've heard you say care about 20 times people first love loving on them. So like if we kind of step back and think about [00:13:00] why we're here talking today in this defining hospitality podcasts, like. How do you, Chris green define hospitality?
[00:13:07] Chris Green: I get asked this question a lot, but to me it's just genuine care concern for a positive outcome for others. And that, that is hospitality. And that's, what's cool about that is it's our, my living and it's also my life. And what I mean by that is, um, just because I make money doing it in the hotel business, hospitality is something that you should practice every day, whether it's with your neighbor or with the person that's the grocery store or whatever, the person who's frustrating you at a grocery store, you know, it's, it's how we treat our fellow humans.
[00:13:40] I was raised by, you know, I'm a Southern boy. I was raised by my mom and dad who were raised in a Southern household. And when people, when we heard somebody who was coming to visit, I mean, what did you do? You break out the best China. We didn't have China. My dad was military. So we had corral, we broke out the fancy Corel where, and we, uh, got [00:14:00] the, making a
[00:14:00] Dan Ryan: company.
[00:14:01] It doesn't make it a couple of valor. Yeah. But keep going. I didn't mean to interrupt. No, no,
[00:14:06] Chris Green: but, but, but those were my proudest moments. When I saw how we served others and put others first, you know, you move the kids out of the bedroom and they moved down to the floor and the guests got the bedroom. And I mean, that's the way we should be thinking is, is what is, how can I be, how can I make Dan Ryan the most comfortable, possible, even if it's at my expense, that's what hospitality is, is giving of yourself to others and letting them experience a fullness that, that you can help provide.
[00:14:32] So I just love it. And I think that's the same thing in leadership is, is the minute that we take our leadership as some sort of right, or some sort of, I don't know, something that we own. We've made a mistake. Our leadership belongs to our team and we owe it to them immediately. That day they take the leadership.
[00:14:56] Um,
[00:14:56] Dan Ryan: you know, going into that, Jen, you think you said [00:15:00] specifically genuine care and concern and that you learned it from your parents who I'm hearing you say it came from limited means. But if you so much of what we learn, we learned from our parents in those early parts of our life, like where do from their upbringing?
[00:15:15] Like, how do you think they learned it? How did they transfer that to
[00:15:19] Chris Green: you? I know it was from, I mean, I look back at my grandma. I mean, my grandma was the sweetest little lady. She, she, she, you never went to her house when there wasn't a big, she lived in Missouri and there wasn't a big night still I'm out of my mouth in water, a big tray of, uh, uh, fried chicken on the table.
[00:15:37] I mean, she just was always taking care of people. You know, you sit down, let me get you a tea. How can I make you comfortable? And then, but then this is the difference when that was done. It wasn't just the food and the sustenance part. It was sitting and talking. And then looking at people and she would ask these really penetrating questions and listen.
[00:15:59] Dan Ryan: Okay. That's awesome. [00:16:00] So like, what were some of the best questions that you remember that your grandmother asked? Cause I think questions and listening, it can get lost on us and all this noise. So I love asking questions. I'd love. What was like some of the ones that you remember from your grandmother?
[00:16:15] Chris Green: I mean, I remember her asking specifically, you know, what are things that you hope for the future?
[00:16:20] Christopher, she called me Christopher. And, uh, you know, what are the things that you hope for and what, what would, what would fill your life with joy? She was really about finding not necessarily financial because honestly, listen, um, I feel very blessed to way just the way things have worked out, but my grandfather was railroad.
[00:16:40] So he, he was a caboose. He was, we worked in the caboose on the railroad and the Southeast Missouri rail line. Then my dad was in the enlisted in the military, not an officer, uh, one of the hardest working man I ever knew he worked three jobs to support our family. So I do, I come from, I come from limited means growing up and, but I saw what the, [00:17:00] the authenticity of care and concern look like instead of the, the, uh, hoopla around care and concern.
[00:17:06] Anybody can throw a big party, but do you, do you sit with me and talk and ask about what matters to me? And so when you take that to the next level, you know, I can't say I'm perfect at it, but there are people in my company. When I get the time, when I go to a hotel, I can sit and ask them and I get to, I want to know them.
[00:17:23] First, I want to know you first, like what makes Dan Ryan tick? Then I know how to serve you as a, either a peer or, you know, in the industry or as if I'm your leader. I know how I know how better to serve you. What meets your needs because everybody's needs are different and what they're looking for in a career.
[00:17:41] And if you don't know that, then you try and put a blueprint on top of people and people are not to be blueprinted everybody's different.
[00:17:49] Dan Ryan: So it's interesting. Like if you take from what your grandmother would say and like, just really focus in on asking these questions about where where's your hope, where's your joy.[00:18:00]
[00:18:00] And then it's, I think you said it's separated from the hooplah right? So it's this whole different thing, but how do you distill that in your everyday life and with your leaders so that you don't get caught up in all the noise and the pop and pomp and circumstance, what are some things that, that you do and your team does to.
[00:18:21] Create that moment of connection,
[00:18:24] Chris Green: but we spend time in authentic conversations. We, you know, I think I actually had reached out to you about the document for like a specific one-on-one right. This is how I'm using my peer network, but, but one of the things that we do on our one-on-one, so we have real authentic talks where, you know, what, what are, what are challenge street facing?
[00:18:42] And you'd be surprised. We've just developed such a great culture of trust, that Chesapeake, that, that we know, we know what people, you know, I know that my VP of revenue strategy, that what really lights her life is her daughter's volleyball. You know, I know these kinds of things about people, [00:19:00] and those are the things that we talk about because when I can hear her joy and talking about that, I mean, there are things that you can relate to business about that joy.
[00:19:10] And honestly, it's really powerful for me to say, That those things are really super important to us. You know, chess. I was raised in the FaceTime era, hospitality. What I mean by the FaceTime era is who could work the most hours. I mean, that's how you got promoted. If you could work the most hours, you are the next on the list because you were more committed than anybody else.
[00:19:30] And we've changed that completely. I, I demand that my people take time off and they do the things that matter to them. There's so much better when they have a long weekend to volleyball and they have a long weekend of whatever, whatever floats their boat. Right. And so, and to me, to kind of bring it back to what you had originally asked me, I don't know about the river guide leadership, where that whole thought process come from is I love to build, I love to get away.
[00:19:53] And one of the things I did getting away as I whitewater rafting on the echoey up in north Georgia, [00:20:00] and it's a class four with some class five rapids and. It presented me. And I didn't realize that time, but it's over the years shaped how I feel about leadership because there's a guide in the back of the boat, the river guide on that.
[00:20:14] Well, they sit up in the back and they sit up on the back part of the boat when your downside and there, they can see the rest of the river. They can see the rapids approaching. They can see, you know, what the pitfalls are and where the opportunities are because they have an elevated view. And I thought, my gosh, that's what we, as more senior leaders should be doing, we should be watching for the rapids.
[00:20:37] We should be watching for the challenges and we should be leaning into our people and what, you know, what the river guy would say. He would say, okay, I need you to over here to give me two backpedals fast and U2 over here to get me to front pedals fast, and then we're gonna stop paddling off. So with, with direct and firm leadership, that was based in seeing the [00:21:00] broader space, the marketplace, if you will, or the river, if you will, that that leader or that river guide was able to coach the team in such a fashion to give them great confidence in their specific effort, and then enjoy the outcome with them and celebrate the outcome.
[00:21:14] And that's what they did. They immediately praised when you'd pass the rapid, he would praise you. And when you, the team was working in sync, you would go through the rapid. No problem. When the team would listen or one team member wasn't performing well, then the boat would twist and you'd be in all kinds of problems.
[00:21:30] You'd have somebody go overboard and yesterday, and it really has kind of turned into a more broader philosophy for me, but it really makes me think that even the leadership journey for those people that are coming onto your team, when they're climbing onto the side of your whitewater raft, just like I was that day.
[00:21:48] And they say there's some classified rapids, or there's some turbulent business times coming. Those young leaders are scared and what do they need? They're there they're concerned. They need a steady hand sitting in the back of the boat [00:22:00] that can, that has calm, that sees the river. That knows how to handle every instance with expertise and then gives them coaching on how to handle this.
[00:22:09] I mean, I can specifically remember going into one called the, uh, the devils, the devil's washing machine, I think is the name of it. It was just not good. He goes, okay guys, this is, Hey guys, we're going to be hitting this, this, whatever, the devil's, whatever he said, and it's tough. And he said, but here's what you need to do.
[00:22:30] When I tell you you're going to do X and X on this side, in the middle. I want you to sit back in the boat and on the back. And he all back when I say all back, everybody at once back up and paddle back. And, um, so you're, you're nervous, but you've got the strong leader. He's not scared. He look over at him and he's confident, smiling, right?
[00:22:47] Excited. You go in and you come out the other side and immediate praise, excellent work. That's perfectly how we should have navigated that. And those are the ways that we need to be leading. And for me, it's, it's not only is it [00:23:00] simple, but people understand it. They get it to
[00:23:03] Dan Ryan: go with this nautical theme.
[00:23:05] Um, one of the things like w when you say rapids, um, I'm thought of, I think about in those coaching sessions where oftentimes those rapids for, for people are, Hey, where are you stuck working? You need help because it can be so immobilizing. And when you hear, and when people make themselves vulnerable and share where they're staying.
[00:23:27] As a leader and have the experience, he's like, oh, let me call that person. Or have you thought of this? And it's a really quick way to get people unstuck. The other thing that I'm, as you're talking about this Riverbrook river guide leadership, the other goal is to also make more river guides, right? So as you're coaching and mentoring and building leaders, it's like how many leaders can you get on that, on that river river of hospitality, river of whatever industry or vocation we may choose.
[00:23:56] Um, I'd love to hear more about that. Like as [00:24:00] far as the leaders, how do you, what's your best way to create leaders?
[00:24:03] Chris Green: Well, first I look for curiosity. I mean, that's the number one trait that I look forward to future leaders is curiosity. I think that the biggest risk to a great leader is self-confidence not, not, and I don't mean having some, I mean too much.
[00:24:18] Uh, when you believe you've got it all together, you're definitely wrong. Uh, because I've been doing this 30 plus years and I definitely don't have it all together. And I know that, so I. Other relationships, people sharpen me and make me stronger and smarter. And S and so I think that the thing that we would talk about next would be is once you pass the rapid, whether it's in business or whatever is not just saying great job, but then taking the time to do a hotwash or a meeting of the two before the next rapid came.
[00:24:47] Okay, guys, here's why, and the reasoning behind the fact that I needed this side of the boat, paddling backwards, this side of the boat paddling forwards, and the leaders that were in the boat that asked the questions like, well, explain to me how that helps [00:25:00] to navigate this rapid. Explain to me how by adjusting your ADR or your marketing strategy or your sales process go towards a specific segment of business help to drive this positive outcome on the bottom line of the tough, those are the leaders that you really are showing the propensity to become future river guides.
[00:25:18] Um, I think those that don't have, you can just spot it. So really for Chesapeake, I fill the place. Curious leaders. I want them driving me crazy with questions I do, because it just shows engagement. And I love answering those questions and I love to help them get unstuck. As you said, I think that's our number one role.
[00:25:37] I mean, here's the thing is, and without the risk of patting myself on the back, I was a pretty good GM. I didn't, I had some great results. I loved my hotels. I crushed results wherever I was. And I have a real, I have a real problem sometimes with sitting in the back of the boat and river guiding [00:26:00] and not just jumping up to the front of the boat and paddling.
[00:26:02] Cause I do know how to paddle through the rep. Like I know, but that doesn't do anybody any good. It doesn't help. My team become river guides. It helps them become followers. And I don't want followers. I want leaders.
[00:26:16] Dan Ryan: Yeah, that's great. It's like, you're almost clearing the way for them to have their own guide boat.
[00:26:21] There's a, there's another metaphor that I'm thinking of, as you're saying it, having been on a lot of rafting trips, which you learn from the river guide and this whole idea of counter-intuitive instincts, right? So I remember they always said, Hey, if you, if you get bumped off the boat and you're caught in a washing machine or in a rapid, when you come up, it sucks you back down, you have to swim downward to get in the current to go.
[00:26:43] And that actually happened to me. And I remember coming up, coming up and getting freaked out. And then I was like, you know, I got to swim down to catch this. And it was just, I never would have known that if it wasn't for the steady hand in the back, who was telling me what to do or to be aware of what wasn't even [00:27:00] telling me what to do, be aware of this may happen.
[00:27:02] Here's my experience. What do you think
[00:27:04] Chris Green: about that? I think it's, I think it's spot on. I actually had that similar thing happened in one of the most difficult rapids, but he had told us in advance, which I think that's great leadership. You know, when you're thinking about a business outcome or you're thinking about a path forward or strategic initiative, nobody has all the answers because if we did, if we did, we'd all be whatever on the forums of 100 list or something, right.
[00:27:28] You know, we'd be these Bezos, but so you need to prepare for unexpected issues or even expected issues. And I think the way you talked about it, it was great. Our, our guide told us pretty much the same thing. This one, hydraulic is going to suck you down. If you fall out of the boat, don't fight it, put your legs up, put your hands behind your back and we'd go down the river and we'll pick you up like 200 yards down river.
[00:27:53] And that actually happened. I mean, one of our, one of our guys went in. And down and I mean, within 30 seconds, [00:28:00] he's way down past the boat because he got into the jet stream of that hydro hydraulic sent him down the river, but that's, that's coaching, that's coaching for your team. It's like I ran a big resort in Florida and on weekends, listen, this place was unbelievably busy.
[00:28:17] When you say busy hotel, I can't really describe to you how busy it was. We would have thousands of people on the pool deck be, um, all the restaurants would be just waiting lines. And I remember walking out of the deck, uh, and with a young manager and he'd seemed frantic because he's, he's looking in, there's just activity everywhere.
[00:28:38] And I was as calm as I could be because I had just seen it. And actually I could see through cues that I had learned over the years, everything was going fine. Everybody was having fun. It was smooth. People were getting drinks, having food. Um, but, but in that moment was the time to cook. What was the ask questions?
[00:28:55] Like the questions we talked about from my grandma, what are you nervous about right now? Well, these people [00:29:00] over here or this, and this looks like this and that that's a coaching opportunity, but if you didn't think about it and you didn't use your experience to lean into somebody, you just trusted there and took it all in, you'd be missing a leadership opportunity.
[00:29:12] And sometimes I just think Dan, I want to say because of the pressure of the banks and the financial instruments that we use to leverage what L's and other businesses nowadays, sometimes the, the, the voice that speaks louder in our head is not lead your people and make sure they're a hundred percent ready to lead the voice that speaks as financial results, financial results, financials.
[00:29:34] And I'm going to sit here and tell you that, you know, until my last day of working, I will not focus on financial results. First, I'm going to focus on my people and I will show you my financial results. And they're always
[00:29:47] Dan Ryan: okay to go back into the river, like those financial results. Like, so you're the captain of the boat.
[00:29:51] You're going down. Those financial performance metrics could be the huge rapid that's there. And it's screaming at you [00:30:00] like, and, you know, you have to keep going down, but sometimes you may have paddled the wrong way or whatever. How do you extricate yourself from that situation without do it? How, what are some instances where you've.
[00:30:11] Managed to placate that beast so that you can keep going and doing what you're doing.
[00:30:18] Chris Green: I will tell you that I did it all wrong. I, the reason I can tell you this is I've done it all wrong once before I let that voice talk too loud. To me, back in the back. When I was a much younger manager, I had an opportunity to take over a hotel that was underperforming.
[00:30:33] And I thought, this is my chance to make my mark, you know, like I want to make the next leap to the corporate level. And I formulated a plan that delivered outsized results. I mean, they were not there well beyond what everybody expected financially, but what I did to that. Hotel on that path was, I basically took it out of what I would call [00:31:00] the rapids and I forced it to paddle up river.
[00:31:03] Like we literally turned the boat around. We were forcing the paddle up river. We were doing everything. Everything was so hard. It was hard on the staff. It was hard on the building. It was hard on the guests. It was just, you know, it was putting a great number on the piece of paper, but everything else was being stressed.
[00:31:17] It'd be like literally trying to paddle up the bracket when, if we could have turned the team. When I learned, if you turned the team focused on towards this great result and, and paddled with the stream, all of us going in the same direction, the results could have it ended up being very similar. But with a lot less stress on everybody involved, like you can force something to, if you're a really strong-willed leader, you can force something to happen for a period of time.
[00:31:43] Yeah.
[00:31:45] Dan Ryan: Yeah. It's that metaphor of Sisyphus. Right. Going back to the ancients of just pushing that Boulder up the hill over and over and over, but you know, sometimes awkward, I think it's called Ockham's razor. It's like the simplest solution is the, is the best fruit. [00:32:00]
[00:32:00] Chris Green: And I learned that I learned I, now I can deliver, not me.
[00:32:05] My team can deliver similar results and everybody, it feels flawless sometimes because what I tell people is there's a river is very wide. And if you don't use a rapid section, you have to see rapids up in it. But if you just think of about a river, you know, I use this river and the river banks has kind of a management philosophy as well, where, you know, every organization has to have what I call riverbanks.
[00:32:29] Right? We have things that we don't breach. We don't reach our culture. We don't breach our integrity. We don't breach our, our humility. We don't breach the way we value others. And so if somebody is in there in their own canoe and they're in our river, they're a leader and they've got their canoe, let's say their canoes, their department, and they're heading down the river and they start heading towards the bank.
[00:32:50] Then their leader's role or my role is to gently correct them back to the center of the river. Because my goal is to have the whole. Paddling together, heading down the [00:33:00] river. And that's when you really get things running as a company, if you let the riverbanks down, what do we get? We get a flood and the flood wrecks every city.
[00:33:11] Dan Ryan: I, I, that's such a great metaphor. I really hope that you do more with that because I read a lot of business books. And to me, I think you have something here that can really be a book. I mean, it's a philosophy. I think you could definitely write about it.
[00:33:28] Chris Green: I have a busy day job.
[00:33:31] Dan Ryan: Well, Hey, find the ed D in the river and, uh, and chill out and get, get these out on paper.
[00:33:38] I think, uh, I really think you're onto something, Chris. So going back to like the first question, which is, how do you define hospitality? You said genuine care and concern, right? And you've learned it like maybe the best example was from your grandmother and you've related this and had these small moments of Karen concern and interaction and, and curiosity with others.
[00:33:58] Oftentimes we're all we [00:34:00] also learn. And some of the most informative learning experiences are like the flip side or the worst experience. So understanding your best and your definition, like what's like the worst story that, or worst experience that you've had that helps guide you to the other bank or away from the bank, or as the dam was breaking.
[00:34:24] Chris Green: Okay. So I, I actually have two. I have, I have another, or I can share a business example. I will warn you. It may cause me to get slightly emotional on the positive side. And then I'm an emotional guy. I'm a, I'm a, I lead from my heart. That's who I am. So it's get it all or nothing. Most when I, when I have our company conferences, the, the directors of sales and the team will ask for tissues at their table, because I normally give a very heartful speech and people are crying.
[00:34:54] I don't know why, but I just elicit tears. I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing. Right. It's just, but, so I [00:35:00] think the most negative example I remember in one thing, let me give you two things. I had a great mentor. His name was Mike, uh, had been a VP and SVP for a major corporation, but near the end of his career, decided to go back and be a GM because he loved the people and he wanted to mentor.
[00:35:19] And, uh, I was very, very aggressive as you can probably imagine. I was really, I don't, it can be a GM tomorrow. I'm ready, you know, and I'd only been in the business a month now I'm ready to do this and whatever. And you say, young man, you gotta slow down. And so at one point after a couple of years, I had kinda, I was feeling my oats and I told Mike something and I said, I think we should do this.
[00:35:40] And he said, young man, what is my business cards say, well, I was general manager. And he said, that's right. And he said, so you need to go to your office and make a file that says when I'm the general manager and you need to put notes in there about things you're going to do that you want to do when you're the general manager, but today I'm the general manager and this is what we're going to do.[00:36:00]
[00:36:00] And while it was, while it was in the moment, a hard lesson, I know what he was trying to teach was you learned something good and something bad from everyone. So, so my bad story is, uh, I was at another very busy you tell I was the number two in command and a very, very busy place. And, um, A guest was unhappy about something which happens in our business.
[00:36:21] I mean, you know, when you have a massive hotel, things happen and the guest was unhappy and they called and they wanted to talk to the general manager. Not actually that, that hotel actually had a president of the hotel was that big. And then they got through his admin and onto the phone with him and they they'd bent his ear about dissatisfaction with something.
[00:36:39] Uh, and I got, I was busy out on the hotel somewhere else, long ways away, big, big place. And I got called to his office and he, I've never in my life been talked to this way. He called me in and he said, he said, you know, I just had to talk to a guest on the phone. That was the first thing that I thought was a negative.
[00:36:58] And then the second thing you said, if I [00:37:00] ever have to, if I ever have to talk to a guest again and you don't handle it, that'll be your last day here. Now, get out there. Here's the problem you get out there and you fix it. And don't ever let it happen again. I mean, it was just brutal and actually it wasn't privately in his office that we were in like an open space and there were several people there.
[00:37:20] So of course I was, you know, I respected the man. So I went out, of course, that knocked it down quite a bit, but I went out and I handled it, but I just remembered that there's so many things wrong, that interaction, like, how are you the head of this massive care and concern facility? And you don't want to talk to the people that pay your paycheck, right?
[00:37:41] You don't want to set the example for the team of how to handle a difficult guest and win the day for the guests. You know, my career has been spent winning difficult situations over and turn them positive. And the outcomes that have come from those, or I could tell you story after story of negatives that have turned into long-term clients.
[00:37:59] I mean [00:38:00] just tons of stories. So I think that, you know, we don't realize it as we get promoted up the chain. GM VP, whatever COO our words have power, huge power. Um, um, you know, I think there's real danger in being flippant. I think there's real danger in trying to be cute when you're leading people. I think that you needed to be authentic.
[00:38:23] You need to think deeply about what you're going to say and how you're going to handle situations because those things leave an imprint on people. And that left an imprint on me. I knew I'd never be that leader. And I, the minute I heard an upset guests, I would be the first one up on my desk. There could have been three other people that were subordinate to me in the hotel that might've had to go.
[00:38:43] I'm going to go. Not because I don't trust them to do it. I want to show lead lead by example care and concern. And, um, when there was a difficult situation, there was nothing better than that. The general manager of hotel, we made a mistake and that's what I did. We screwed [00:39:00] up. Here's what I'm going to do.
[00:39:01] I'm going to fix it. And I'm going to make sure you have the best day ever from now forward and who else can set that standard. Right. So
[00:39:08] Dan Ryan: that's resonating with me so much because oftentimes, you know, and doing projects or whatever, you know, things go wrong. And oftentimes people speak around the actual core issue, but I call it and I don't remember where I learned this from, but I called it entering the danger.
[00:39:24] You just go straight to it so that there's no inference, no misunderstanding and say, okay, this is it. We made a mistake. I made a mistake. Here's what I'm going to do to fix it. And it really diffuses the whole situation. So again, I think oftentimes we can learn from the horrible experiences and it just makes us better leaders and more experienced.
[00:39:48] I think that with the, uh, your mentor, Mike, who, who said, oh, ha ha create a file with when I'm GM, I'll do this. Okay. That's that's interesting. I think the [00:40:00] cooler thing would be create that file, but you know what, once a month or once a quarter, let's review it and see if there's any good gems in there.
[00:40:07] Right. So it's almost it almost like compartmentalizes your ideas. Right?
[00:40:12] Chris Green: Right. No, that's a good point. That's a good point. I'm part of a group of leaders that we talk about. They have this thing called the Buffalo culture. And, um, I don't know if you know this or not, but a little bit of trivia when the winter storm, when a winter storm is coming towards a herd of Buffalo, the Buffalo turn into the storm and they walk through the storm.
[00:40:38] Why that makes sense? Right? The storms heading towards you, you walk through the storm, you're going to get through it faster. I had normal cow will turn and walk with the storm and have much more. Chance to die in the storm or whatever, but a Buffalo will turn the storm. It's fascinating. I, I really have done some reading about it's fascinating.
[00:40:59] So, [00:41:00] so that's who we want to be as leaders is you got to turn into the storm. You might as well edit face on and navigate it and own it. I mean, and then get through it. It's just like the re the rapids in the river. The rep is there. You have to go through it. Are you going to navigate it successfully? Or are you going to turn and try and swim over to the bank and get out run?
[00:41:18] Because that's not leadership at all.
[00:41:21] Dan Ryan: I love that metaphor of being a Buffalo and walking through the storm. That's super powerful. So I'm going to meditate on that one.
[00:41:30] Chris Green: So let me tell you, let me tell you the story. I want to share it. Powerful story for me personally, genuine care and concern for your employees.
[00:41:39] So our, our chairman of our company just speak. His name is Kim Sims. He's one of the family and the founding partners. And he's been with the company since birth. He was living in the hotel that they had a 12 room hotel. They lived in it and they started the company in his family. So, um, he, he's just a great man and he cares about people first.
[00:41:59] And that's where [00:42:00] I learned a lot of what I believe to be true. But in 2007, I was general manager of a hotel at Houston and my mom was sick with cancer. And, uh, she, my mom was a very strong-willed lady and she didn't tell our family that she had been, she had gone through and been in remission before.
[00:42:21] And then she didn't tell everybody that came back. She kind of kept it from us because she didn't want to go through Trisha. She didn't like did not like chemo did not want to go through it again. And, uh, next thing you know, August in 2007, I got a call at hotel. It says from my dad. Your mom's in hospice.
[00:42:38] And I said, what, like, how did that happen? I didn't know. And she had been keeping it from us. And, um, long story short, I called my boss at the time Kim and I said, I got to go home to Florida. I was living in Houston on the Florida, flew home. And me being a young manager, I had an important busy hotel in Houston downtown.[00:43:00]
[00:43:00] So I told the team, I said, you know, I would need to text me every day, call me, let me know what's going on with the financials, any documents . And, uh, it was strangely quiet for the next three weeks until my mom finally passed. Um, and I get back to work and I called the hotel and I would call my assistant GM and he would say, everything's fine.
[00:43:26] It's great killing it. Everything's great. You know, but things are going well. We're thinking about you, buddy. You know, that's what he would say.
[00:43:34] And, uh, Sorry. And, uh, so I get back to the hotel after it's all over with and everything. And I talked to the team and I was like, I mean, you guys, I said, you guys did great, you know, no problems in three weeks. And we're so busy. We had these major conferences and everything else. And uh, they said, well, we have some problems [00:44:00] we did.
[00:44:01] He said, but, uh, gosh, I'm very emotional about this, but it's so powerful. He said, but Kim called us and he said, you guys are forbidden
[00:44:15] from bothering him.
[00:44:22] That's a genuine care and concern. Yeah.
[00:44:26] Dan Ryan: And really like, um, thank you for sharing. I mean, that's very powerful and to think about Kim as maybe. The being the ultimate river guide. Right? So he's back there really he's been there. He knows as you're coming up and he, he made a leader out of you at that moment.
[00:44:45] All you already were a leader, but really I think that was just like the ultimate move. That was very transformative for you.
[00:44:53] Chris Green: It was, it was, I mean, it look how it affects me. This is what 14 years later just [00:45:00] affects me. I mean, it, it affects me because in that moment he could have chose business over personal, you know, have three days of bereavement, get back to work.
[00:45:09] Now he actually told me you don't come back till everything's handled. And I was panicking at two weeks. I'd never been out of a hotel or out of work for two weeks. Then it went to three and three and a half the funeral I'm thinking, oh my gosh, am I still going to have a job and to go back to work and find out that he forbid them from telling me anything negative or even calling me.
[00:45:29] Dan Ryan: That's amazing. Yeah. We need more people like that.
[00:45:35] Chris Green: He's a good man. He's a good man. And I, and I, and I don't mind sharing it. I don't like being emotional in front of like, whoever's gonna end up seeing this, but here's the deal it's, I'm authentic. I'm always authentic. And, and to me, it's very, very powerful statement about choosing at that moment. He chose, he is a person of integrity, humility, and he, he chose, he didn't have to choose.
[00:45:57] It was just simply who he is. It's the right thing to do. [00:46:00] You know, business will go on. People are people matter. So,
[00:46:06] Dan Ryan: yeah. And that goes with the whole idea of vulnerability and that really the moments that people remember most are when they are walking through that storm and they make themselves vulnerable and they share.
[00:46:19] And so like, again, the point of this conversation that we're having it. Larger perspective of defining hospitality. It's these, these vulnerable stories that you just shared are really what help all of us who love and are so passionate about this industry, connect the dots and like, and build upon and stand upon the shoulders of those who come before us, because it only makes us stronger.
[00:46:43] And again, when you go back to that word, hoopla, you used earlier, we can lose so much in what it means to care for others and to ensure that others are being cared for. So, you know, I think it's just, it's very powerful and I [00:47:00] know that this, that, that story is going to impact many people. So thank you for sharing on that front.
[00:47:06] Um, kind of going in there, like we all, I spent so much time on the road and in that case, you were visiting your mom in hospital and you were away from work with family, but look like, as you are now, when you travel away, From your family or your home and you're on the road. How do you make yourself feel at home
[00:47:31] Chris Green: know that's changed over the years? It's changed. And initially, initially when you're doing a hundred days a year out on the road, initially it's exciting when you're young, young going to LA or I'm going to New York and all that. And now it's interesting how much I want it to be like home. You know, I, I really, I really do.
[00:47:50] So. I mean, some of the things that I do and they're kind of quirky, but I try to keep the same schedule that I'd keep at home. My wife and I liked to go to bed relatively early. I [00:48:00] don't stay out late on the road unless I have a big business dinner. I try to keep the same bedtime. I, you know, I read a book before bed or, or whatever.
[00:48:07] Um, I always same thing. I always taught my daughter my nine year old in bed. So I still tuck her in on the road. I call. And frankly, I will tell even business centers, this is where I've kind of drawn the line. I will step away from a business center and go outside and FaceTime my daughter. Just like Kim sends seems to me, that commitment for me, I'm making that commitment to my daughter.
[00:48:27] Like she's more important than a business deal. And I guess if any of my future clients are listening here, I want you to know that about me now. My family is first, so it doesn't mean I won't crush it for ya because we will, but because I'm so much better when my family is global as are all of our people, right?
[00:48:43] So those are keeping that good consistent system and really paying attention to yourself and how you feel. I don't like I don't like being unsettled. So like never going to Alison, just a few weeks out in California. That's a hard one, but my wife [00:49:00] and I talk every morning at here at my house, we sit in the back room and we have coffee every morning at six 30.
[00:49:05] So yes, I'll be up at three 30 Los Angeles on the phone talking to my wife and saying good morning because it's consistency and it's authentic and it feels a bit, so I try to keep the same routine. So if you're with me at dinner, Dan and in LA. Seven LA time, which is 10. And I look like I'm asleep. Um, probably almost aimlessly.
[00:49:26] Dan Ryan: Yeah. It's like time zones have no bearing on family
[00:49:29] Chris Green: interaction. No, and they can't.
[00:49:32] Dan Ryan: So when you're doing your nighttime routine and the book you're reading, what book are you reading right now?
[00:49:38] Chris Green: Well, the book that I have right here on my desk is called the leader within us, by war and Mustang. Oh my holy
[00:49:44] Dan Ryan: crap, Warren.
[00:49:46] Rustand more than maybe any other human being in the world. How to tremendous effect on my life. He is incredible. Have you met him before? I have not. [00:50:00] Oh my gosh, that guy he could have. I think he's done everything. He went, he played college basketball, he played professional basketball. He was a member of a presidential cabinet.
[00:50:12] He ran all these different companies and that's where I think I said it before that whole idea of lift where you stand, um, That's where I got that from him. He actually gave me this incredible routine that I practice every day. Um, it's called 10, 10 to 10 and it's, um, I meditate or a mindful for 10 minutes.
[00:50:32] I read for 10 minutes and then I journal for 10 minutes and it's like, for me, it's like, uh, when you turn on a computer and the operating system is booting up, um, it's, it's my way to start the day. So what's your big, what's your big win from Warren? He is
[00:50:48] Chris Green: and amazing. Oh, it's amazing. I mean, it's funny that, that way I'm just on, I mean, I was reading this today and I underlined underline some of the stuff.
[00:50:57] Um, but it says at the end of this [00:51:00] chapter being vulnerable, authentic, and transparent textbook. There've been times in my life where I've struggled to do it. I've had to battle with pride and ego as most of us do. Uh, anytime our life, anytime life or our decisions, throw us off our chosen path. Remember those three great moments of truth.
[00:51:15] Determine our core beliefs, commit to those core beliefs and act on those core beliefs and values. So it's funny that that's where I'm at today speaks my language. It's it's really good. Good book. If you're watching, it's a great book. This is another email him on my desk. So yeah,
[00:51:34] Dan Ryan: that's really powerful.
[00:51:35] And Warren, I mean, he, when I saw him speak, I did this program up at MIT with a bunch of other entrepreneurs from around the world. It was a three-year program and he was in the first year he carries around. I think, I think he calls it his bucket list. It must be it's like his, I don't know how many items are in it, handwritten in a plastic bag.
[00:51:58] And I think that he's [00:52:00] checked off almost all of them, except for. President of the United States and one other, I don't remember now, I, I want to reach out
[00:52:08] Chris Green: and ask him. Yeah, that's awesome. You should ask him. He should totally ask him
[00:52:14] Dan Ryan: going onto that one and not losing sight and going with the Warren theme on the bucket list.
[00:52:18] Like what's, uh, what's your number one bucket list item you want to get to.
[00:52:26] Chris Green: Well, I mean, this is a big bucket list thing. I don't know if it'll happen or not. I I'm like a big Homer, like, right. I'm a USA. I can't wait for the Olympics. So I've always dreamed of attending. I didn't go in 96 in Atlanta. I didn't couldn't have, I couldn't possibly afford it or whatever, but so big bucket list.
[00:52:45] We go, there's the summer Olympics in Paris in 26. So I mean, that's a huge bucket list item. Um, and then there's, there's some other minor ones I'm going to get, I'm getting to, I'm actually getting to fill ones week [00:53:00] soon into the summer and going to the U S open in New York to watch sometimes.
[00:53:04] Dan Ryan: Um, I'm trying to plan it too.
[00:53:05] We should definitely try
[00:53:06] Chris Green: and coordinate. I mean, tennis to me is this beautiful, beautiful sport when played like by certain people, people that don't know the game and I'm terrible. I love to play, but I'm not great at it. But people that don't know the game don't even have any clue how. Majestic, it can be quite frankly to deal with them.
[00:53:26] So
[00:53:28] Dan Ryan: have you ever been to early stages at a us open?
[00:53:31] Chris Green: I have not. I've never been to the USF and I've never been so. Okay.
[00:53:34] Dan Ryan: So in the finals, that's all great. Like if you can go, that's awesome. It's on the big court, but if you go early, like first, second round during the day, usually it's really freaking hot, but you're just walking around and you're, you're literally 10 feet away from some of the best tennis players, some of the best.
[00:53:50] And then some of the aspiring and to just see them operate at a different level of athleticism. It's, it's [00:54:00] incredibly inspirational and like, and mind opening. Yeah.
[00:54:05] Chris Green: So, um, what about you? What do you have a big bucket list, item,
[00:54:11] Dan Ryan: big bucket list items there. They tend to be these long walking trips. So I want to do the Appalachian trail.
[00:54:17] Um, I want to do the Camino Santiago and I want to do the, uh, Walk Hadrian's wall. So this summer I'm doing my first part of the Appalachian trail in Connecticut. Um, as I'm a new, nutmegger moving up here. So I have this vision of doing it all in one shot, but I'm just going to do a couple of little pockets here and there, but there's something, I guess, bringing it back to the river guide.
[00:54:40] It's being on a trip. We're also busy and spread out everywhere and always looking at what lays down river to me to go on a really long walking trip and just really be focused on the next step. And nothing else seems like the [00:55:00] ultimate experience. And so my bucket lists tend to be these like really long walking trips.
[00:55:07] Chris Green: That's awesome. Some of my bucket list things I imagine are things I don't know about if that makes any sense. So my wife talked me into doing a, uh, Tough Mudder the spring, my wife's really physically fit and I hate running. I hate it. Just want to go on record. I don't know if she'll like it and I, you know, I go to the gym and I played tennis and stuff, but I don't want to work out fanatic.
[00:55:32] Um, I, I mean, I was so exhilarated when I finished it. I did finish it and I was on top of the world. So now I'm, you know, that's uh, oh, wow. I want to do a more difficult one. And I want to try some, you know, push yourself. I think things, sometimes we associate bucket-list things with like reward type items, like trips and whatever go into Bali or something.
[00:55:56] But I think there's really value in, in [00:56:00] bucket list items where you stretch yourself, like you push your physical and mental limits. Um, I did repel down the side for charity of side of a thousand foot tall hotel. That one I hate and I will never do it again ever, ever. Listen. You want to hear a funny, quick story that there was me and there was another lady, it was for charity and they said, okay, here's your break and everything.
[00:56:23] And how you do it. I was kind of hyperventilating. I have a picture of it. I wish I could flash it up. You could see my face looks like I'm very intent, but what it was was I was trying to breathe. I can't breathe. And, um, so it took her like seven minutes to go down. I was down in like three minutes and 30 seconds.
[00:56:40] I was like, I just wanted to get down. I couldn't take it
[00:56:45] Dan Ryan: if Heights, what hotel was it that you were repelling down?
[00:56:49] Chris Green: Amanda? The losers' are downtown Orlando, big, tall, maybe it's 700 feet, but it was far to buy, you know? Oh my
[00:56:56] Dan Ryan: gosh. Yeah. I dunno if I could be down [00:57:00] with that. Well, going on to that anxiety of like, as you were feeling that, and just trying to breathe, this is a great question.
[00:57:07] I love asking as, as it pertains to like you and your life, like what's keeping you up at night these days as it pertains to our industry and, um, caring and concerning for others.
[00:57:23] Chris Green: I hate the, I hate the, kind of the vice grip of pressure that everybody's under right now. What I mean by that is we've got, I mean, at a very high level, you've got asset owners who need a return to profitability yesterday. You've got banks and debt sources and equity sources that have extended grace to the ownership groups and operating groups for 16 months because of unprecedented circumstances, but they need a return as well.
[00:57:51] And then you've got associates who. For the 14 months or 15 months did so much more with so much less than anybody knows [00:58:00] while adding 9 million different protocols to do different things, elevated protocols, this protocol Africa, um, that are just exhausted, that, that, that the hospitality is almost run out of them.
[00:58:14] There's so, as we're trying to accelerate, so this constituency on this side to get them back to wholeness, this side is not yet whole, and they don't have enough help. So trying to get back to whole is being blunted by the lack of availability of staffing. And so you have these opposing forces and everybody's, I have to say everybody's understanding, but only to a point only to a point.
[00:58:38] And when you have a bank saying, I don't understand, you know, why we can't get a better returns and you can't physically serve as the volume because there's no staff or your current staff. You know, mutiny, which I think you saw everybody seen him at the hurricane where the whole team walked out and that's not, that's weak.
[00:58:58] It's the most [00:59:00] unbelievable dichotomy of goals right now. And so, and everybody has the same goal, but we can not get there in some circumstances. And so it's creating brutal pressure on relationships. It's creating brutal pressure on staff. Um, so
[00:59:16] Dan Ryan: you said something that just jumped out at me right there.
[00:59:22] And I'm wondering like how you get it back, but it's, it's this idea and I haven't heard this, but the POS fatality has been rung out of everyone and that is a powerful metaphor. So how do you see that playing out? Where's your hope in that as the, as the captain or as the guide.
[00:59:42] Chris Green: My hope is, is that we see wins. I mean, so I guess the point, the last point I didn't get to on that and the hospitality and rung out of them. So imagine that you're at somebody at the end of their rope, and these are great people. They've been doing this a long time, you know, the pros, but they're just at the end of the rope they've been, do we have [01:00:00] GM's that have been working night, audit this, not the other.
[01:00:02] And then you get hit with a massive wave of demand and you're understaffed, and then you get negative guest feedback. What's your which, because the guests, where have they been locked in their houses for 16 months. So they want to get out and experience brilliant travel and listen, let me be clear. We want to deliver brilliant.
[01:00:27] However, I may not physically be capable of it because I can't, maybe I can't open the rooftop bar. Maybe I can't open the restaurant. I don't have staff. Maybe I don't. I see it every day. And so to me, that's almost like taking this open wound that our team has and pounding on it instead of them getting chance to heal.
[01:00:48] So we're, we're being as thoughtful as we can and providing resources. Um, we've provided training leadership training. We're a holistic, like not like leadership training, but how to deal with [01:01:00] adversity, anxiety, challenges. We're providing resources to our team to try and help them through this because it's brutal.
[01:01:07] It's brutal. I don't know the outcome. Honestly. I'm trying to stay the course and share wins and share the future. Um, try and keep them focused on the horizon and not on the what's right in front of them.
[01:01:20] Dan Ryan: It's really like trying to figure out after we've all been so blasted, just trying to figure out how to fill that reservoir.
[01:01:27] Um, it's going to be a continuing challenge and I'd love to check in at some point to see where the wins and where the successes are and where the winds are coming from. But given where we are right now, what's exciting. You most about the future, aside from your trip to Paris for the Olympics in 2026.
[01:01:47] Oh, is there going to do
[01:01:48] Chris Green: it? We'll say, um, well, the. What's exciting me most about the future, I think what's exciting me really the most when I think about it - and I just [01:02:00] redact myself from like the current state - is that we're going to have a group of leaders. Who've been through something more difficult than any of us were through.
[01:02:08] They're going to be more, battle-tested tough and savvy on how to navigate critical changes in business volumes than any leadership set ever before. They're also going to have, they're also going to be operating under new hospitality standards and being able to create the new, not the new normal, the new essence of hospitality, whether that's how housekeeping is handled, how food and beverage is handled and deliver, whether it's, you know, do we have door dash instead of rooms and room services internal? I mean, there's going to have so many new things to work on. That's exciting to me. And I think there is going to be a Renaissance. Anybody who says anything that food and beverage and hotels is dead, bars are dead. They're wrong. I'm just telling you they're wrong. I've been through 9/11 and I've been through the financial crisis. And everything everybody said was pretty much wrong. We were never flying again after 9/11. Never, you [01:03:00] know, I've had 2000 flights since then.
[01:03:02] Dan Ryan: Totally. So going back to those experiences from your younger self and you know, all those trips down the river, so to speak, um, if you could teleport back to your younger self, when you're first starting off in your career as a, you started as a bellman
[01:03:20] Chris Green: of bellhop.
[01:03:21] No, I actually started as a cook in a restaurant, I mean, long, very beginning.
[01:03:25] Dan Ryan: So you're back at your, as a cook, you're on the line. You're in the kitchen. What advice would you order your, would you, what advice would you offer your younger self in an essence, in a way to shorten your journey?
[01:03:40] Chris Green: That's such a good question.
[01:03:45] I mean, it would be probably, it would be really to listen and take advantage of wiser leaders, both for good and bad. When you think, when you, when I saw things that I knew were bad to learn from that and to make sure I didn't, [01:04:00] I avoided those pitfalls because to be truthful, I remember my first management role and I did a terrible job.
[01:04:06] I was very, very young. I got promoted at a very young age to a management job, and I was a manager and everybody needed to listen to me because I was the manager. And obviously I was smarter than them. That boy, that was just a, it was a train wreck. And, uh, I would say to all those, all the leaders out there you're going to make mistakes.
[01:04:24] Don't be too hard on yourself. Learn from the mistakes. I was very, very, very aware of my mistakes as I grew my career and I would make notes. And not only did I put, when I'm a GM, I'll put things I will never do again. Right. Things that we'll never joke about. Again, things I will never say again, because if you don't learn from them, you're gonna, you know, you're just going to keep creating the same stakes that comes with curiosity.
[01:04:50] Why didn't that work? What was my part in it? And that's the other thing that we probably don't have time to touch on, but you, you got to own your role in problems. [01:05:00] Most of the problem involves is partner where you there, then you're part of the problem, the problem, whether it's your leadership or I handled it, or, and a lot of times we're like, well, Dan did it wrong.
[01:05:11] I mean, there was something about Chris green that did something wrong that set Dan up to do it wrong. And we it's like that old thing when people come to me after a few weeks and they say we hired the student manager and we're going to let them go. The first question I asked nowadays is not why I'm like, well, where did we go wrong in the hiring process?
[01:05:29] You know, where did, what, what mistake did we make that this three weeks in? And we didn't pick this person, right? Yeah.
[01:05:35] Well,
[01:05:35] Dan Ryan: that's our role. I love that. I, for difficult conversations, whenever there's a challenge, it's always, I always accept blame. And my role in this is X, and I think it, again, that's a vulnerability, right?
[01:05:47] And it helps everyone come up with a holistic solution. So that you're, you have that experience going down the river so that you could avoid that rapid again, being
[01:05:56] Chris Green: vulnerable, being vulnerable is not weakness at all. [01:06:00] Actually. To me being vulnerable as a sign of strength, it says I'm comfortable that I know I made mistakes.
[01:06:06] I know I'm that I'm here in this with you and I'm not afraid to show you that I make mistakes too. Awesome.
[01:06:13] Dan Ryan: Um, so Chris, as we kind of wind this up, where can people find you? What are some conferences you're coming up on? Um, web page LinkedIn,
[01:06:23] Chris Green: tell us, yeah. Uh, you can find us on, of course, on linkedin@chesapeakehospitalityoronthewebatchesapeakehospitality.com.
[01:06:30] And you can come see me in person at America's lodging investment summit or the star data conference or the lodging conference, uh, or, uh, I'll be at NYU. So we're back on the big conference, uh, travel and I'm I'm, uh, um, I'm available. So my email's easy. It's C green Chesapeake hospitality. If you listened to the podcast and you have questions about.
[01:06:53] Uh, river guide leadership or anything we've talked about, I'd love to share with you. That's part of our role [01:07:00] as leaders is giving back to others in the industry.
[01:07:02] Dan Ryan: Awesome. Uh, so Chris, I just want to say first, thank you so much for your time. I know how busy you are and how all over the place you are, man, and keeping your team and leading.
[01:07:12] Um, thank you for sharing where people can learn more, um, as for everyone. Thank you for listening. If you learn something today or laugh, tell someone about the podcast and thank you everyone. Uh, we will see you next time.
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