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USDN Podcast is a cinematic indie comics interview series hosted by the USDN_Chairman and the Council of Nerds — spotlighting the creators, storytellers, and worldbuilders shaping the future of independent comics.
Each episode dives beyond headlines into the real journeys behind the books — from Kickstarter launches and creative struggles to the philosophies driving today’s indie storytelling movement.
This isn’t about rumors or recycled news.
It’s about the people creating the worlds.
Through in-depth conversations, creator spotlights, and crowdfunding discussions, USDN explores:
• The rise of indie comics
• The business of crowdfunding
• The art of worldbuilding
• The realities of independent storytelling
USDN is where indie comics come to life — for the fans, by the creators, and powered by the community.
Yeah.
You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Thanks for watching!
What is up, everybody?
It's the chairman here of the United
States Department of Nerds,
where we are for the people,
by the people, and of the people.
And tonight,
we're stepping into a universe shaped by
legacy, rebellion,
and the next wave of heroes who refuse
to stay in anyone's shadow.
Pulled directly from the pages of The
Remnant,
Last Gen isn't just a new superhero team,
it's a declaration.
These young heroes are done being treated
like sidekicks.
done being underestimated and ready to
prove that they are the future.
Joining us tonight is Matt Hasso with a
J and Ray McKay.
They're here to talk last gen zero,
last gen number one,
and what it means to tell a comment
of age superhero story in a world that
already thinks it knows how heroes should
look.
Ladies and gentlemen,
let's welcome Matt back to the show for
like the third time in his illegitimate
love child, Ray.
I need the smoker's jacket, you know,
like SNL, like a five-timer.
I need a three-timer jacket.
Dude, now I got ideas.
I'm going to have to order myself one
of those.
Welcome to the show for the first time,
man.
Thanks for having me.
It's great to be here.
And that was my one.
I swear I won't hit no more young
jokes.
I think I got most of them out
before we went live.
So now we can lock in and focus.
We got an audience here of y'all's team.
So Ray,
I appreciate you sharing this around to
all the buddies over at Grok Comets.
And we got some Alpha Ray comic in
here, some CYI Worldwide.
So with that...
For readers just discovering this corner
of the remnant universe,
what is Last Gen and what makes this
team different from the heroes that came
before them?
I think I was distracted because where did
you get that intro you just read?
Because that was really good.
Oh, dude,
every every person who comes on the
podcast, Matt, you should know this.
Every single one gets their own unique
intro based on their their their comic
that they are presenting or whether
they're artists or what have you.
they all get their own unique intro.
And what I do is I take all
the data that I can gather about Grok
Comet, about the comic book,
and I take all that,
I put it into a little chat GPT
action,
and I've trained my chat GPT
years and we and then once it's done
spitting it out i go back and i'll
rewrite everything in the way i would like
it to be and that's where it comes
from okay yeah because i had that moment
i was like i've done a lot of
uh ghost writing for some of the the
pr stuff for grok and i was like
that was pretty good i don't think i
wrote that i mean if you want me
to write for grok all you gotta do
is ask
I send you my bill and we're good.
It is not up to me.
It's up to Ray.
This is his title.
I just, I just,
I just hang out here.
Oh no.
I mean,
last gen wouldn't be what it is without
Matt.
Like he's been so helpful for Matt sent
me some covers and stuff for this book.
months ago when I had him on last
and I was like,
I wish you wouldn't have shared this to
me because I know this isn't ready yet.
So all you've done is tease me for
the next six months or three months,
however long it's been.
But I did hop in on the Kickstarter
to make sure I did get my copy
of this.
Nice.
But do you remember the question or do
you want me to say it again?
Go throw it out there.
Yeah.
Matt did what Matt does.
So for readers,
just discover in this corner of the
remnant universe,
what is last gen and what makes this
team different from the heroes that came
before them?
Do you want to take this one?
You are the writer of the book.
This is your show.
Matt's the supporting cast to throw
Zingers out.
You are Captain Lone Star.
I am Barf.
Go.
I'll take it.
I'll take it.
So Last Gen,
it's an upcoming comic from Grok Comics
that's going to focus on the younger cast
of the Grok universe,
sort of the teen and college age heroes
who have all appeared previously in books
like The Remnant or the Atomic Thunderbolt
one shot or Parables of the Remnant.
But now they're being spun off into their
own series that's dedicated to sort of the
younger heroes.
This team of heroes is led by the
brash but heroic Atoman,
and the roster includes soon-to-be iconic
heroes like Gemstar, Trashpoka,
Anarchy Prime, Jellybean, Calvary,
the Atomic Thunderbolt, and Hangten.
All of them have diverse and interesting
personalities and power sets.
And really,
this book is going to be Grok's young
adult teen hero book with all these young
heroes striking out on their own as they
navigate growing into responsibilities,
friendships, and romance.
They also have to balance their new duties
to keep people safe from criminals and
supervillains.
And in the first issue,
which is now on Kickstarter,
it has two stories that I helped write,
which include humor and interpersonal
drama and some good old fashioned super
powered action.
Issue zero is going to collect a lot
of the previous appearances of Last Gen,
as well as an eight page original story
I wrote that sort of brings the team
together for the first time.
And this is just going to be a
comic that's for fans of superhero comics.
Like, if you like Teen Titans,
The New Mutants, The New Warriors,
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles,
or Invincible, this is the one for you.
And really what sets Last Gen apart from
the other Grok comics is they're the
younger cast and... Well,
they're the younger cast.
It's going to be written...
by me with some stories by matt hopefully
and some stories from bill and just we're
really excited to get these characters out
into the world because i think they're
really interesting and i think they'll
resonate with people i like you but who
named their character jellybean uh that
was not me
So so bill bill ultimately has created
probably ninety seven percent of the
characters in in Grok comics and what I
really liked about this is that so he
has a flagship title called the remnants
and some of the members of last gen
have kind of been introduced through there
and met and
and have been there and they literally in
the third or fourth issue go we don't
want to be here anymore like you guys
are doing your thing we want to do
our thing we don't want to listen to
you guys and they leave and create their
own headquarters in a separate part of the
city so i think it kind of opens
it up to unlike like the new mutants
they were just out of xavier's same house
they just they
We're on a different level.
This is a completely different place.
Very similar to what the Teen Titans did.
They just kind of got tired of being
the second fiddles and the sidekicks
and...
got their own place.
Yeah.
So it's funny.
Yeah.
And yeah.
And it's, it's interesting.
Cause it's some of them are, you know,
like I said,
mainstays that have been in the,
the main title,
some of them get introduced to this.
And I'm just excited to see a lot
of what Ray has done.
He really did kind of bring these
characters to life.
Again, as much as I enjoy writing,
I am in my fifties, me writing teenagers,
not so much a thing that should do.
So when we had Ray, it was like,
it's a no brainer, the young character,
give it to the young writer.
So it's been a lot of fun.
What you just said was you,
you are now unk status and it's time
to pass the ball.
Yeah.
I'm grunkle Matt.
We need to get you one of those
hats that he has.
The little hat?
That's perfect, dude.
Perfect.
We just do a rewatch of that, sorry.
No, you tell me about that.
That's what you rewatch.
Yeah, yeah, the one.
So my buddy Max was visiting for the
weekend and he just basically got me to
start watching Merlin with him and I'm
hooked into that now.
Nice, nice.
Did you watch the magicians or the
librarians?
I think it's the librarians.
That one was really good.
Similar, very similar.
But so why was this the right time
to tell a story about younger heroes
stepping out of the shadow of their legacy
teams?
Wow, that's a really good question.
Honestly,
I'd have to say- That's what I do
here.
may have done this one or twenty times
i i think i think what happens is
like any comic book creator when you come
up with a title you have like well
this is a cool title but it would
be also good if we had these other
fifteen and bill has done that a lot
is there's a lot of options that are
playing down the line some that are
already happening so a lot of that was
already in motion before ray and i even
got kind of
brought into the grok thing this was
already happening like the third issue of
remnant was already out there in the
public before i've ever even heard of it
so so some of this decision process that's
all to say we do what we're told
we are freelance writers yeah uh as much
as i'd love to claim i have this
grand vision for sort of how last gen
is going to come to fruition i really
am just sort of
We're writers for hire.
We're freelance.
What I find really interesting about Last
Gen number one is the first comic I
ever wrote for Grok is going to be
published.
And it's a backup story featuring one of
the Last Gen members, Calvary.
And it's really interesting because I
literally just finished doing a dialogue
polish on it yesterday because I wrote the
script in January of
And now if it's sort of on Kickstarter
going to be published in January of twenty
twenty five, I've gotten a bit better.
And there's a few details that have
changed continuity wise.
Sorry.
Twenty twenty twenty six.
I'm sorry.
You have a time machine up there.
Yes, I've gone back in time.
There's some decisions that I need to go
back and undo.
I'm going to win a lot of money
on the Super Bowl this year.
Nice, nice.
I don't even think you could have
predicted that one.
Yeah,
so it's kind of interesting because
there's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff.
Ray knows some of this.
I think I've lightly discussed it on the
previous guest spot.
So several years ago, I was...
he called me the story editor over at
Grok comics,
but essentially I was like looking over
new talent submissions, critiquing them,
what was right, what was wrong.
And that's where Ray was one of these
guys.
And Bill was like, Hey, there's this guy,
Ray, read his script, help him with it.
And I,
even though the script was wrong because
it's a Christian comic and he had like,
it was a cool script,
but it was about a mercenary killing a
bunch of people.
Oh, no.
Hold on.
I took the character Flameshot and I had
him like massacre a warehouse of drug
dealers.
He drops a grenade onto them.
And then I think he stabs like four
or five people with a ninja sword.
And then he burns one guy to death,
holding them up by the neck.
Batman just did the same thing,
so I don't see a problem.
Yeah.
So then I was like, hey,
this is a Christian comic.
Tone this down.
Let's do some... So I think...
By the time this Calvary thing was sent
to him, it was already in my mind.
And I had mentioned it to Bill about
like, hey,
let's toss him this Calvary script.
And if he nails it,
let's have him do Last Gen.
So it was like this pseudo audition of,
hey, let's see if he could do this.
And then he knocked it out of the
park.
so then it was like okay now that
he's got this down okay he can do
this let's let's let's toss i think we
toss one more thing at you i think
that was the south hawk thing yeah yeah
and then it was after that comes out
one day yeah and then it was after
that that i was like all right let's
give him this book and then we did
and he's just kind of run with it
and
And there was a lot of guys in
that wave of people trying to submit
scripts that the scripts were okay,
but they were what I call,
it's a horrible name,
but I call it Skinscript.
Hey, hey, what's up, kiddo?
That's my daughter, the older one.
I love the way the chat will stream
along the screen.
I see it.
CYI World, that must be Bill.
What's up, Bill?
Yeah, it's Bill.
Because that's a muscle.
It's not showing up as him,
but I recognize the art.
Yeah.
So the, what's it called?
The, man,
I've totally lost my train of thought.
Yeah.
Yeah,
I was talking about something interesting.
No.
Okay.
So skin scripts.
Okay.
So, so skin scripts.
Yes.
I'm sorry.
It's a horrible name,
but this is what I call a skin
script is like,
I want this really cool thing to happen.
So I'm going to write this script and
whatever character you give me,
I'm going to put in the script.
but it's not about that character.
It's about this script I wanted to do.
So it could be a Batman script.
It could be Daredevil.
It doesn't, it's not necessarily like,
Hey, he jumps off the building, lands,
beats a bunch of criminals up and jumps
back on the building and runs away.
That could be any fifteen characters.
When you're submitting for a company,
I want you to write a story that
is specifically about a character.
and ray and two other guys when i
was like hey this is what you're doing
i need you to do something different
actually turned around stepped up and did
what i asked most of the dudes wanted
to argue with me and i was like
nope bye so
in that process of him actually wanting to
learn and and working and accepting a
cheek and then again like it seems like
it should not be rare but it is
as of coming back with something better
and he just kept doing that over and
over again so i was like yeah let's
give him a title and that's kind of
how him on last gen came about and
he's just knocked it out of the park
it's really has been fun to sit here
and go hey here's this two sentence idea
go make something up and uh he'll come
back with something spectacular
I mean,
isn't that just such the fun part of
doing comics,
just getting to run wild with stuff like
that?
And really, from the other side of it,
I think when I applied to Grok,
I had one credit under my belt that
was an illustrated prose story for Big
Bang Comics.
I was teaching myself to write comics out
of, like, just books kind of thing.
I had very little experience doing it,
and I applied to Grok,
and I got the message from Matt,
and then...
I forget what my second script I sent
in was,
but I know eventually when we got to
Calvary,
I read everything there was about him,
which wasn't much.
But I didn't want to just write a
superhero story.
I wanted to write a Calvary story.
And again, back to just Matt and...
how every time you send me back,
I come back with something else.
The initial script for the Calvary comic,
I think I had him run into two
bank robberies on his walk home.
And I remember you called me and you
said, it's good,
but why don't we just make them one?
So he fights the robbers and then the
supervillain as opposed to he fights bank
robbers and then he fights a supervillain
at a jewelry heist or something.
it makes more sense.
And now looking back on that script,
I can't believe I ever was going to
try and fit two different robberies into
nine pages.
Like, what was I thinking?
Everybody in their life has tried to shove
ten pounds of shit into a five pound
bag.
You're all guilty of that one.
Yeah, enough about my exes.
We weren't even going to bring them up
this show, and here you are.
Yeah, it's been interesting.
But yeah, I think that was the thing.
Sometimes when you're working with another
writer,
it is sometimes difficult because some
writers don't want to hear it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Like,
if you have to tell me all these
details, well, then that doesn't work.
Like, it has to be in your story.
And I think that's been something I've
seen Ray leaps and bounds over the last
year or two in everything he does.
And then sometimes I'm like,
I don't know why you listen to me.
Like, you've got tons of stuff out there.
You know, he's got...
What is that thing that just came out
of Bing Bang with the female warrior
fighting...
It's Big Bang Adventures,
and the story is called When Old Gods
Rise.
And basically I take sort of,
I took Venus, who's sort of the,
you know, like the mythic godly superhero.
She's pulled from the Roman myths.
It's very like,
everybody or like lots of people call for
like the wonder woman i kind of consider
her the thor and i threw her up
against cthulhu and the other old gods and
i sort of turned them into like this
ancient pantheon from beyond human memory
that like return to try and bring about
the end of the world i was doing
my best like walt simonson you know there
we go yeah i like that was so
fun like some of the most fun i've
had doing comics
Dude, sometimes that's all it is.
It's just a good story.
Yeah.
The deepest depravities of your
imagination can make some of the best
comics.
Oh, yeah.
So now having him do the last-gen stuff
and watching some of these stories unfold,
it's kind of funny because sometimes...
um and we both do it i'll be
like hey man this is my idea but
i know it sucks so help me make
it not suck and he'll say like well
uh no that just sucks don't do that
put a line through matt's name and just
put my name underneath it for golden no
but i think what what sometimes happens is
you do have that idea but you know
it's not there absolutely and to go like
hey this is my idea
but I know there there's like the thing
and you can't see it because you have
so much in your mind about this whole
story.
So he and I are constantly like here,
read this, tell me what's wrong.
And then back, you know, he'll would do,
I learned that word has a comment section
that you can comment per line.
And he showed me that.
So we do that constantly back and forth.
That's something I learned for a school
for one of my writing classes.
Just it's beyond helpful.
Of course,
it's funny because I'm still on my
family's Word account.
So all of the comments Matt gets on
his scripts are technically written by my
dad.
Yeah.
I was like, who is this?
You just now figured out that Word has
comment section?
This was a couple of years ago.
That's like my thing at work is I'm
always proofing documents and adding stuff
to documents.
The comments have become like my best
friend over the twenty years of using it.
Because even though I know it's there,
what I usually do,
and Ray will probably get PTSD from this,
is I'll write my comments in red.
Also, they like like, hey,
this should say this or try this for
the dialogue or this makes no sense so
that you're just like so it sticks out
really bad.
But I like to do the strike through
in red and then add the comment in
red.
Or if you have to correct the spelling,
which he usually does for me,
just rewrite it correctly and bold red.
But personally, like for myself,
because as much as I've had fun working
with other writers over the last couple of
years, like usually it's just me doing it.
So I'll print the script and then I'll
go back with a blue pen and make
all my comments and do that and then
take that to my next thing.
So doing it digitally is definitely
something new because I've never had to.
let me critique this and send it to
somebody so they can make it better.
But no, it is,
it's been fun to work with together and
definitely kind of mold this last gen
thing.
I mean,
I think technically we've got six or seven
things plotted out for this guy or for
this team.
We have so many, well,
we've been talking back and forth for a
while now.
I've been just sort of bouncing ideas off
of you and off of Bill for what
we should do for
issue two uh i what's up nathan my
dude right there what's up nathan
He was a blast to have on,
just so y'all know.
The Idolverse is going to be something
amazing.
Jupiter Man, right?
Yeah, Jupiter Man.
Yeah,
Nathan sent me a copy of issues one
and two of Jupiter Man.
I got a chance to read it.
Such a fun read.
Dude, such a fun read,
and I love what he's doing.
And where that story is going to go
is going to be amazing.
Nice.
Yeah.
No, it's a terrific comic.
I'm interested to see where it goes next.
especially when it gets to that big battle
scenes coming up.
I think he said issue eight.
Well, someone sent me a link.
But let me ask you this.
How did you approach writing heroes who
inherit both power and expectation and
heroes who have already existed before you
got to them?
You're not going to get easy questions
from me.
No, I'm definitely not going to.
Honestly, I tried to...
So the two main characters in Last Gen
who sort of juggle both a legacy and...
sort of superpowers are appropriately,
as I think Bill calls them,
the atomic twins,
Atoman and the Atomic Thunderbolt.
And they're both the grandsons of, well,
the original Atoman and the original
Atomic Thunderbolt.
But the way I tried to contrast the
two of them is...
Adaman, whose name is Adam,
his grandfather was a superhero and left
him the Adaman costume.
Hey, James.
You're too kind to me, James.
Over Christmas break,
I sent in my idea for the plot
for issue nine of Alpha Red,
and James said he really liked it.
I think it's going to be...
Issue eight is terrific.
I've been seeing the art behind the
scenes.
It's fantastic.
Issue nine, though,
we've got some crazy stuff cooking for
that.
Sorry, as I was saying,
so there's Atoman and the Atomic
Thunderbolt.
They're both juggling being superheroes
and sort of carrying on the legacies of
their grandfathers.
But the big difference is Atoman's legacy
is a lot more straightforward and,
for lack of a better word,
unsullied than Hiro,
who is the Atomic Thunderbolt.
It's not Hiro, like superhero.
It's H-I-R-O.
and
In Hiro's case,
his grandfather was the atomic
thunderbolt,
but then his grandfather was arrested and
put in an internment camp.
During World War II.
Sorry?
During World War II.
Yeah, sorry, during World War II,
I should mention.
He was a Japanese-American during World
War II.
The grandfather gets stripped of his
title, put in these internment camps.
They make somebody else atomic.
Sorry, not trying to steal it.
No, he's absolutely right.
I, of course,
knew what he was talking about.
Right.
And then Hero finds out that sort of
his grandfather was the Atomic
Thunderbolt,
but his legacy has been erased.
So now Hero's really trying to make a
new legacy to make up for the old
legacy that was taken,
whereas Atom Man's kind of towing the line
a bit more,
just trying to live up to his grandfather.
Hero's trying to sort of make a mark
as the new Atomic Thunderbolt.
Does that make sense?
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And one thing I've got,
and this is in...
the script I've got that'll be in Last
Gen Issue Zero,
is Atoman is kind of showing Hiro the
ropes,
because he's been doing this a bit longer.
He's showing Hiro how to be a superhero.
Ooh,
that's a good question from Nathan there.
Yeah.
How did I get the opportunity to co-write
for Grok?
Honestly, I just...
this sorry i'm trying to remember it was
a couple years ago there was a there
was a talent call for freelance writers
for grok and ray had submitted several
scripts that's how it happened yeah i was
trying to remember whether or not i found
it through facebook or if i found it
through it was on everything i had this
bad habit when i was like i would
go to indie planet and
i would just go through all of the
comics they had there under the new
releases and i would just look up all
the publishers and i would just sort of
uh see which ones were open to submissions
and i just i call it the shotgun
approach yeah yeah yeah yeah see i think
i think for for me it's kind of
funny because i think ultimately i did
submit to the same thing is that he
had put out a talent call i submitted
and then
somehow i got actually like through
happenstance ended up like really quickly
getting on a personal phone call with him
he's just amazing just like was like oh
let me do this and this and i'll
help you and and it was ultimately like
okay well if you really want to help
read all these people's scripts and tell
me what's good and bad okay ninety percent
of them are bad do we have to
take it to these people yeah
And then you met me.
Yeah.
And then on Christmas Day, hey, man,
did you read my script?
I got the notification.
It was the weirdest thing.
So I applied to Grok with the comic
about Flameshot where he goes pretty kill
crazy and Matt told me, hey,
try again kind of thing.
And then on Christmas... We just lost him.
Uh-oh.
on Christmas Day I don't know what he
well because he's Canadian so Boxing Day
is a little like Christmas and it's the
day after right yes so I'm sitting here
like opening presents and I get a message
from him going like hey have you read
my script and I was like not today
I have not and uh there he is
bring it yeah bill phil exactly i can't
believe this kid is sending me it doesn't
say merry christmas or hey have a merry
christmas it doesn't it's just literally
like hey happy boston day let me get
something so i was like i was like
dude what is this kid's problem but he's
like he's from canada and i was like
can you get him in and out yeah
let me see
But yeah, it was basically like,
what is this kid's problem?
I cannot believe he's done this.
He's like, well, he's from Canada.
And I was like, oh, okay.
A little bit.
So I think I mentioned back like, hey,
it's Christmas.
Give me a couple days.
But he also didn't know anything about me.
So he didn't know I still had kids
at home and that I'm not doing whatever.
So it was very funny because it was
just like,
i i can sometimes have a short temper
about certain things so that was one of
those like
then it was like once once i found
that i was like okay let me uh
let me talk to him so then i
think he's a kid man he was excited
about his work he was very excited and
that was the thing is like i think
a lot of people sometimes underestimate
what enthusiasm will get you like if
you're enthusiastic and you're willing to
listen and work and try and get things
done like
We'll do that.
I've been studying and teaching martial
arts on and off almost my entire life.
And I would rather teach somebody and have
them not pay me a dime if they
really want to learn and work.
Rather than you spend,
you give me two hundred dollars a private
lesson,
but you suck or you don't want to
do it.
You're just trying to drop your kid off.
Yeah.
So for me,
it's it's definitely like I need you to
want to do it.
What's your background as far as
competition?
He was chiseling them into stone back in
the Stone Age.
No,
I have on and off written comics just
on my own trying to break into the
industry since I was a kid.
But I really...
So it's kind of a weird...
I'll try and summarize this.
So all through my late teens and early
twenties, tried to break into...
He ain't wrong.
He ain't wrong.
All through my late teens or early
twenties,
I tried to break into comics or do
something with somebody I knew,
like other artists I knew in high school.
There's artists I met in college.
And as a writer,
it's very difficult to break in.
And then my late twenties digital films
started becoming a thing.
And I realized like I could be creative
without an artist.
So I learned how to do digital film.
And for the next ten years,
that's what I did is I wrote scripts
and made films because I didn't have to
worry an artist.
I could do everything myself.
And then it was my mid forties when
I think I tried to break back into
comics.
I had enough money to pay in order
just to draw the things I wanted,
came up with a concept,
and I think I had him do two
issues.
Then we tried to shop it around,
but nobody would pick it up because I
did not want to do the self-publishing
thing.
I wanted to get somebody to distribute it.
and it just didn't work and had i
probably known more of what i know now
then i probably would have done it
differently but ultimately i stepped away
and was like well whatever and then it
wasn't until a couple years back when grok
was doing the hey we're looking for
freelance writers i applied got got hired
on did a bunch of scripts for him
and it was within two or three months
that
Nick at Apogee was like, hey,
I want you to come work for me.
And then I had this guy over here
asking me and then somebody else asking
me.
And it was just this really weird kind
of a lot of things came together.
So I've done a lot of that.
So currently,
I do have a lot of scripts that
I wrote for Grok that are still being
produced.
um and bill and i have talked about
me probably going back and writing some
more stuff i've also written a bunch of
stuff for apogee currently i am the
editor-in-chief of apogee so i'm really
trying to work on getting all of those
things to meld together and i'll be doing
that that's a lot dude especially over at
apogee i know nick has a lot of
things going on i know he's trying to
tie everything back together again
And he's got some good ideas and it's
just a matter of getting, like,
it's kind of funny.
It's like, what's it called?
It's really cool to have a plan,
but if you don't share the plan with
all the writers, the plan goes away.
You're good, Ray.
Oh, good.
I'm back.
Sorry about that.
My Wi-Fi, believe it or not,
has cut out in multiple podcasts and shows
I've been on.
It is very frustrating and I do not
know how to fix it.
Tell your side of messaging me on
Christmas.
Go.
Oh my gosh.
So Christmas, unwrapped presents,
hanging out, go to church,
call the grandparents, all of that.
I check my email and I see that
the Grok Comics creator resources folder
or something has been shared with me.
And that makes me think I probably got
the job, right?
But it's Christmas.
Why would it sort of get sent to
me?
So I was sort of going back and
forth about whether or not I should reach
out.
And did I reach out on Christmas or
was it Boxing Day?
It was Christmas.
I definitely just couldn't help myself,
which, again, I feel bad about.
That sounds like him.
James, that sounds exactly like Ray.
That's exactly what I did.
Keep bugging them until you break them
down, man.
I mean, it's worked so far.
You must have done something.
Squeaky wheel gets the oil?
Is that what they say?
That's what they say.
Yeah, and anyways,
I reached out to Matt to sort of
say, hey,
so did I get the job if I
have these resources?
And I think we went back and forth
a little bit.
They weren't actually supposed to be sent
to me quite yet,
but I did have a gig.
It was a little confusing,
but it all worked out for the best,
right?
Yeah.
I think the share was like...
The problem is,
and I've seen this a lot of times,
especially as a writer,
is it's very easy for an artist to
go, I like what that character looks like.
Let me draw three pages of that character
doing something.
It's very difficult as a writer to do
that because unless the company that is
looking for writers gives you complete
information about the character,
you just have to blindly go...
I like how he looks.
Let me make up a story about him.
So I think that's where it gets really
hard to kind of submit stuff.
So with him,
with all the people that kept sending
stuff in that was questionable,
I think I talked to Bill about like,
hey,
I think we need to share more with
these guys about what they're sending and
what they're writing.
at the same time why a bunch of
writers who went to a website called
tribulation task force sent overly violent
scripts is beyond me whoops maybe yeah it
was it was the main character has a
giant cross to be honest to be fair
there's not a whole lot of comic book
companies out there making
christian comic books so i didn't know
that existed until actually uh matt sent
me the email and i'll fully admit like
this might make me seem a little dumb
but i did not realize grok was a
christian company until matt got back to
me and i was like oh okay i
see what i did wrong here i'm gonna
fix
And in your defense,
that's what happens a lot.
I'm also the kind of person when somebody
says, hey,
do you want to write for us?
Or, hey, we're looking for talent.
I will stalk.
I'll go back years on their Instagram.
I'll go through their website.
I'll look at everything because I do not
want to be...
These interviews yeah,
but it is like that's the thing is
like sometimes I feel like like if you're
if you want the job you got to
do the homework and I think that was
where sometimes I get annoyed especially
if it was like There was one guy
who wrote a script about black Cobra and
unfortunately for him I was in the middle
of writing that first issue and it was
like
what are you, like, what are you, like,
he sent it, and then I'm reading it,
and I go,
why is he writing this guy this way?
So then I go and read what was
on the talent search, and it just says,
like,
Bat Cobra is a superhero in The Remnant.
and there is an entire setup of that
world where the remnant characters the
heroes they're actually publicly looked at
as terrorists because the watchers the bad
guys work for the un and pr blah
blah which is cool but he had black
cobra like talking to the cops and hanging
out with them and i was like hey
the heroes in this universe do not talk
to the cops like the cops would probably
try and take them down i need you
to rewrite it and then he well why
would i do that i was like
I don't know.
You want the guy asking you to.
Yeah.
This is one of those writers.
What was like everything I kind of pushed
back at him because he was the one
who I think he did another rewrite and
it wasn't any better.
And I was like, I tell you what,
let's do something different.
Why don't you write a completely new
script and do it on this guy?
And I gave him all this information and
he was like, well,
I'm not going to do that.
why would I do that?
And I was like, well,
you're the one applying for a job.
Why would you not?
And he's like, well,
I don't want to do this.
You don't know what you're talking about.
And I was like,
this is where the conversation ends and
have a good day.
Yeah.
It was just one of those, like,
you're right.
I don't buy it, but it was,
it was,
that's why to kind of bring around why
Ray, a guy named Michael,
who I think you've had on your show.
So different of like, Hey,
They took what I said and were like,
oh, that's what this is,
and came back with a script that was
really for this thing.
Oh, yeah, Mike Williams.
yeah dude that dude is super smart when
it comes to the administrative type side
of the business like his episode for
anybody out there interested in comic
books go watch that episode with him
because the dude from the business side of
the house
is a freaking genius like that was a
master class of the business side of the
of comics yeah
Nathan,
I would recommend Atomic Thunderbolt,
Black Cobra number one,
Thief of the Night number one,
and the upcoming Remnant number eight.
And Last Gen one and two.
Last Gen one and two?
Or Last Gen zero and one?
I gotta recommend those.
So Last Gen zero is going to be
ninety-two pages?
Yes.
Yes.
What was the goal behind creating such a
large introductory issue?
Well, that might be a boss man question,
but maybe you know the answer to that
one.
You want me to answer?
You want to take a shot?
I have an idea.
You're welcome to.
There's a lot of times,
especially with number zeros,
where because the nature of a lot of
stuff at Grok is that it's a lot
of short stories.
So you have parables of the remnant.
You have these issue number ones that are
multiple stories.
So the number zero is kind of like
a collection of all these things you might
want to know before issue number one.
So there's some of it's reprint.
Some of it is new stuff Ray has
written.
Some of it may be stuff that has
been introduced or is on the production
side that hasn't been released yet.
And it gets slammed into this number zero.
And that's why it's kind of this
spectacular of all the things.
Dude, that's some value for your money.
Exactly.
It reprints the Atoman one shot,
the Atomic Thunderbolt one shot,
the Remnant number three,
which was the first appearance of Atoman
and Gemstar and Calvary who go on to
be the founding members of Last Gen.
And then it has two little short last
gen stories as well.
And none of these are a hundred percent
like required reading for issue number
one.
I'm proud of the fact that issue number
one is sort of a good jumping on
point.
You don't need to have read anything to
go into it.
But if you've read issue zero,
you'll appreciate the characters a bit
more.
You'll know where they're coming from a
bit more and you'll get the background of
the world a bit better.
The way I would compare it, and Matt,
please correct me if I'm wrong here,
is
It's like if you watch A New Hope
not knowing the prequels exist versus
watching A New Hope after watching all the
prequels.
Like, you get more of the stuff.
No, we don't agree.
No?
Okay.
We were forced to get out of order,
okay?
We were forced to because that's how we
come out.
No, no, no.
He is correct.
There are certain things that are filled
in,
especially if you get into the Clone Wars
cartoon of, hey, wow,
this is why these things happened the way
they did.
Just remember, the rule of two,
there can never be no more, no less.
Yes.
So as Sith writers, we're good.
And Matthew,
be aware that your young apprentice may be
coming for you someday.
I really... Wait, do I have mine?
Powerful young champion.
Write all the comics so I don't have
to.
We do not do Star Wars prequels around
here.
We celebrate Star Wars.
Well, anyway.
I have to say...
We won't talk about those.
I was just going to say,
getting to see episode three in
theaters... Get you on the re-release.
...earlier this year was crazy.
Because, well, twentieth anniversary.
Oh, man, that's weird.
But yeah, I... Yeah,
that's what number zero is.
And that's where it goes.
All right.
What else you got, buddy?
Throw it at us.
Let's do this.
So...
How do stories like The Origin of Ataman,
Remnant Day One,
Atomic Thunderbolt establish the emotional
and thematic foundation of Last Gen?
That's you, Ray.
Go.
I mean, I personally did not write Ataman,
but I've read it,
so I can speak to sort of where
it puts the character for Last Gen number
one.
Last Gen, it's a big group of people.
There's a lot of different characters in
it,
and they've all got their own arcs and
their own personalities and their own
journeys that they're going to go on.
And Alphared, Atomic Thunderbolt,
or sorry, Atoman, Atomic Thunderbolt.
Dave's going to do a crossover.
Okay,
would it not be a really cool crossover,
though?
Alpha Red meets The Remnant.
It would be so cool.
Dude, Silent Night and Alpha Red.
I'm down for this story.
That would be awesome.
Silent Night and Alpha Red.
That would be great.
But we digress.
I would have to say the way that
I wrote Atoman and the Atomic Thunderbolt
and the members of Last Gen...
was supposed to be like,
this is a direct continuation from Atoman
issue one, Atomic Thunderbolt issue zero,
and the stories they had previously
appeared in.
I wasn't trying to change the characters
to sort of fit whatever vision I have.
I was trying to write them as best
as I could.
And Atoman is the leader of Last Gen.
He...
has that burden to carry, and in Atoman,
his sort of one-shot,
he is given the burden of carrying on
his grandfather's legacy,
but he still sort of maintains his very
bro-dude attitude about it,
and I hope that carries through to issue
one.
Did you say bro-dude?
Sorry?
Did you say bro-dude?
He's very bro-dude.
Was it that energy drink from Letterkeny?
It could be.
Bitter patter, Ray.
Bill has written Ataman in the past to
be sort of like the frat boy superhero.
And as someone who's currently in college,
I know quite a few frat dudes or
guys like sort of similar to that.
So I definitely pulled on that for Ataman.
And how you balance sort of
that personality with being a superhero.
Not that there's anything wrong with that
personality, obviously.
Oh, no, absolutely not.
And so what made the exclusive stories
Moving Day and Roll Calling essential to
understanding who Last Gen is?
I mean,
I'd have to say they're not a hundred
percent essential because you don't need
to have read issue zero to read issue
one.
Reading issue zero will give you a better
understanding of issue one.
But move in day shows last gen moving
into their headquarters and headquarters
should be in quotes because it is
basically a shack near the city that they
fix up into a headquarters.
And they clean it out.
They fix it up.
And by the time we get to issue
one,
they've set up a bat computer that also
doubles as a PS five as well as
a couple other things.
Sorry.
I need a PS five that doubles as
a bat cave or bat screen.
They're teenagers.
What do you expect?
And for Roll Calling,
I actually reread that script earlier
today just to sort of remember exactly
everything I put in.
I wrote that over the summer once sort
of Bill reached out to me and said,
hey, so Last Gen, we're doing it.
It's going to be coming out.
Write a short comic that sort of
introduces all the characters,
lets us know what they're all about.
and sort of sets them up to be
this new amazing team.
And I had a lot of fun with
that one.
I really pulled on sort of my love
of classic comics.
I have two of the characters going to
get coffee and just sort of catching up.
And then there's an explosion and there's
a villain,
the horned skull and his army of robots
are robbing a bank.
So they call the other members of the
team.
And then we get to see what these
other members of the team are doing in
their free time.
And that's very indicative of who I think
they are as people.
And then they get the call,
they suit up, and they head over there.
And I just had a lot of fun
with it because...
None of them, or, well,
one of the funniest parts is a couple
of the characters are in a movie.
When they get the call, hey,
there's supervillains,
we gotta go deal with it.
And they get yelled at for being on
their phone in the movie theater.
And then when they finally, like, dress,
get into their superhero costumes,
head out the door,
and are on their way to the big
fight,
they realize it's all the way across the
city and that none of them can fly.
So they have to debate whether or not
to take a taxi, the bus, or Uber.
Yeah, but Uber...
Grab an Uber.
Well, that's my favorite.
That's one of my favorite jokes in the
entire comic.
And this spoils a little bit.
But it's still like four or five
characters.
They pile out the movie and they're like,
all right, they're at that bank.
It's halfway across town.
How are we going to get there?
Taxi?
Nobody with super speed.
Just four dudes.
They're just four dudes.
And then one guy's like, do we taxi?
And the other guy's like,
I'd rather Uber TVH.
And I just thought it was the most
young... Yes.
That's the epitome of teenagers moving out
of the house and realizing none of them
have transportation.
Yeah.
So Nathan asked a good question here.
So do both or do any of you
have any aspirations to write your own
original stories?
And I think you have, Matt.
Have you not?
Yes, I do.
My big thing now is I got tricked
into having more kids.
So it's very difficult for me to do
the whole,
I'm going to be away for a weekend
trying to sell my books.
So my tentative plan was to make my
name at some different book company,
like with Grok and with Apogee and maybe
some others.
And then this way I would have like
a track record of, hey,
this guy writes really cool stuff so that
when I did my own thing,
it wouldn't just be random writer number
eighty three in the alley of Comic-Con on
a table is just selling this random book
that nobody knows anything about.
um but i have in the past written
a lot of stuff of my own um
there are plans to do some other things
um that might happen that i could talk
i can't really talk about now that are
in the works um and you know uh
i i it's kind of funny because because
bill hates me in that like back in
twenty twenty four i was like hey at
the end of twenty twenty four
I'm done with comics.
I'm going to go make a movie.
And I was really close to making a
movie.
And unfortunately, it fell apart.
But fortunately for Grok and Apogee,
that meant I was stuck in comics still.
So so I got brought back in.
And so, yeah, there are there are things.
I'm very grateful.
There are things that I have written in
the past that I'm thinking about
revitalizing.
Ray may or may have not read some
of this already.
If I ever did my own comic,
that would probably be the project.
um sector is the comic that i did
years ago um honestly if you go to
www.facebook.com slash pharaoh comics
f-e-r-o comics both issues are up there um
it was at the it's kind of weird
it became so dated so fast from two
thousand
of two thousand seventeen eighteen to two
thousand twenty two the landscape of the
world changed so much that i don't think
the book works anymore um but um yeah
i've thought about it here and there it
just depends on
again like it sounds weird but it's like
i'm not chuck dixon if chuck dixon goes
on kickstarter he gets funded like that if
i go on kickstarter i might do two
hundred bucks because nobody knows who i
am um dude this is easy i got
you just let me know
Fair, but I'm just saying, like,
I think that has been my kind of
tentative plan was to get into the
industry, get a name for myself.
Then hopefully that name is a good name
so that when I go, hey,
this new book called, you know,
Texas Ranger Superhero Cop comes out,
people are like, oh,
that's a guy from Phantom Hawk and Swords
of the Remnant and Remnant and...
this thing over here yeah why would we
not we'll put you in cosplay you know
cowboy stuff and we'll sell the hell out
of this book dude if that's what you
want to do assless chaps all day i
mean yes but we want people to actually
you know buy the book um but i
think that's the thing is it that's for
me personally
where I'm kind of at.
My family is first.
I got married late in life.
So the idea of like, hey, honey,
have fun with the kids.
I'll be gone for a week.
That's not me anymore.
I don't do, well,
never has been in my marriage.
It's just not me.
I'm not, I like writing.
It's not that important.
Not yet.
You know what I mean?
If Marvel was like, hey,
we'll give you a million dollars and you
can write Captain America,
but you have to come up for a
weekend.
I'd be like, hey baby,
we're going to New York.
Yeah, no shit.
There's so many cons around you, though.
You have a lot of cons that come
to you there where you're at.
So within a drive, you know,
a day's drive.
And going to San Antonio,
is it that big of a deal?
That's where my oldest kid lives.
Dallas is up the road, too.
Yeah.
Dallas has so many cons and everything
else right now.
They're huge.
So I think with apogee We may be
doing the kind of Palooza Just because
they they come here as well.
But but I but all that to say
yes,
I do have ideas of my own It's
just waiting to do them the way I
personally want to do them to be the
most creatively
fulfilled by that situation without
breaking into my personal life.
Ray, what you got?
First off, can you guys hear me?
I just stuck my headphones in.
You're good, dude.
Awesome.
My headphones are always on the frets.
Don't fall asleep with them in.
That will definitely do some damage.
I definitely have my aspirations to sort
of write my own original stories,
but I'm also...
college and do not have much in the
way of money so I'm very much just
working as a freelance writer hoping to
not only build up my resume but also
my reputation to hopefully at a certain
point maybe I could come to a publisher
of an idea and bait they would take
me seriously because they've seen my
previous work but I definitely I have an
entire I have entire notebooks just filled
with ideas of crazy stories I'd love to
do
I have one crazy comic idea I want
to do.
It would be like twelve issues.
It would be set in New York in
nineteen seventy seven and it would sort
of be like a period piece coming of
age story.
I've been working on it since I was
in high school kind of thing.
It's a
i've got lots of ideas i'd love to
do a very stripped down sort of superhero
story a lot like unbreakable um i'd love
to do some old school world war ii
comics sort of in the style of sergeant
rock i i love finding the old joe
cubert sergeant rock issues in back issue
bins and they're just they're so good
they're mostly just one and done stories
they're pretty they're action-packed
they've got heart and there's just nothing
like them out in comics these days like
i
If I could pitch any comic for Grok,
I would pitch a Man of War comic
where it's basically just him as Sergeant
Rock.
It's one issue,
World War II flashback kind of thing.
That would be amazing.
And I would just beg Matt to help
me with it.
You don't need me, buddy.
You said like you got it down pat,
man.
We have this young guy here who's really,
you know,
looking back into the older stuff from the
seventies and eighties,
which is really dope to see,
especially as hard as they are to get
your hands on some of those books,
especially Sergeant Rock.
The fact that you're finding any at all
is like amazing.
Yeah, well, big credit goes to my dad,
for starters,
because Vancouver has this one comic and
toy show where people just bring their own
comic collections or shops from Vancouver
Island or farther away from Vancouver will
go and visit.
And my dad would drive me to this
community center completely out of the
way,
and he would just sort of hang around
for a couple of hours while I went
through every single...
Bops.
Comic book retailer.
And I had a list.
I was like,
do you have any of the Nightman by
Malibu?
Do you have any of the Mighty Crusaders?
Do you have any of Nineteen Sixty-Three by
Alan Moore?
Do you have any of Big Bang Comics?
Do you have any Sergeant Rock?
Do you have any of this?
Do you have any of that?
Do you have any Ninja?
I had a whole list.
I feel like I drove them crazy,
but I did what I had to do.
It's pretty cool that you mentioned Malibu
because Malibu is where the first issue of
Bond went to before...
immediately got you know yeah when malibu
was its own publisher and then they got
bought once they did their own comics
marvel anyway yeah absolutely it's a it's
a monkey pass there but it's kind of
cool that he was he brought up malibu
i'm just like geez well like that's a
that's a wild one you're sorry go ahead
no go ahead no sorry
uh i'm sorry i'm sorry go ray go
go um you know that series by malibu
the protectors yeah oh yes
so i was obsessed with it as a
kid it took me forever i found issues
like the first issue i ever found was
issue five and that's the one where
nightmass gets killed and there's a bullet
hole that's through the entire issue i'm
not sure if you guys are familiar they
did like the character gets shot through
the chest they cut a hole through all
of the comics it was crazy very i
questioned that at the comic shop i was
like why in the hell is there a
hole in this book
It's definitely a strange one.
I definitely put a pencil through it and
then spun it around a bunch because I
thought that was funny.
Of course.
You have to.
But all of those characters were
redesigned versions of public domain
characters.
And that was sort of the first time
I ever saw that you could do that.
So I was really interested in like,
one of the first comics I ever drew
at like,
eleven years old was a Man of War
comic where he teams up with the ferret.
And it's just so surreal to me now
that I actually have written Man of War
for Grok,
like this character that I only thought I
was ever going to read about.
It's really neat.
Let's see.
What are your creative processes for
writing?
You go first this time, Nathan.
I mean, Ray, good night.
Sorry,
I've been sober for at least three days.
It's freaking me out.
Well, of course,
it always depends sort of like what the
project is, what my process is for it.
Like if it's a collaborative process,
I'll want to call the person I'm working
with, bounce ideas off of them.
But if it's just me,
what I usually do is...
And this is like really OCD and anal
of me,
but I am a big fan of Robert
Kirkman.
And in the back matter of one of
his comics,
he talked about his writing process and I
definitely borrowed a lot from it.
I usually try to like,
write out a summary of what's going to
happen in the issue by hand.
If I have time,
I try to do it by hand first.
Write out a summary by hand,
and then I'll type it up into an
actual summary.
Then I usually send that to the publisher.
And if they like it,
then I go forward.
And then I'll break down the entire issue
page by page in my notebook.
Like page one, this happens,
they say this.
Page two, this happens, they say this.
Page three, this happens, they say this.
And then I'll do like a draft on
my computer.
And then I usually send it to Matt.
He tells me what's wrong with it.
Then I do another draft.
and uh eventually it turns out pretty good
so here's what here's what's wild if you
go back and uh watch the episode with
michael williams he talks about the
writing process and the creative writing
process that he uses it was very
educational like i know like i went back
and re-watched that episode and took a
whole notebook full of notes like it was
that good
Like I said, that whole episode,
I think we went almost two hours,
and it's like a master class.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, he knows his stuff.
So for me,
a little bit like what Ray is saying.
It depends on the project.
But what I usually do,
I switch slowly to digital.
I used to always do this by hand.
I have legal notebooks everywhere.
I would literally write down the name of
every character.
and then what i would do is the
next page would be what does each
character feel about the other one like
what's your what is joe's relationship
with with brad what does brad think of
joe what is brad and just have this
this web of like how everybody interacts
and figure out like what is joe a
first kid a third kid a middle kid
is he tall is he short what's his
ethnicity and what i for me personally
what happens is is
Once you create all those relationships,
all you have to do is grab these
people and go, okay,
now that I know everything I need to
know about them,
put them on a plane going on a
mission to fight a—insert bad guy,
whatever—
and it just writes itself that's a really
good segue matt i like when you do
this so issue one puts the team into
their first official mission against the
villain pissed why was it important for
their debut mission to feel personal
rather than world ended because bill said
That's the best answer ever, dude.
Perfect.
No, no, no.
Wrap it up.
Let's go home.
In seriousness, just – sorry.
I'm not going to be able to top
Matt's joke,
so I'm just going to give the –
give what I think the answer is.
This is your show.
That was your answer.
I have to say –
I've had these characters rambling around
in my head since probably twenty twenty
three at this point.
Like I've written out entire conversations
between them that may never see like print
kind of thing.
Just I have like a whole notes app
open on my phone where it's like funny
dialogue for these characters to say to
each other, like great little exchanges,
future ideas for stories.
Like I I've been working on these
characters for a long time now.
And the first issue,
I really wanted to hone in on those
character dynamics and make them funny and
entertaining and engaging because there's
so many comics where you can,
where a bunch of superheroes can punch a
monster that's going to eat the city or
somebody, somebody,
somebody comes down from outer space.
Your world is marked for destruction or
something terrible is going on.
And for this one,
we kind of just really, for lack of,
oh God, what's the word, Matt, where it's,
it's the reverse of like widened the
scope.
You're the film guy, not me.
Tone it, narrow it down.
Yes, thank you.
We narrowed the scope a little bit just
to focus on these characters at their HQ
when they're suddenly attacked by the
pest.
And the pest is just such a-
oh it's amazing and the pest was a
great villain because it's so weird and
offbeat and impossible to predict that we
really get to see these characters
personalities shine through because
they're so on the back foot yeah it's
a good segue by the way and so
what does this first mission reveal about
the strengths and weaknesses of the team
Man, I mean, Matt,
it might be a while since you've read
the script, so I can handle this one.
Dude,
you should be answering all these
questions.
The big thing is,
and Ray and I did discuss these characters
a lot before he started writing, is like,
we...
For me personally, again,
it goes back to the skin script.
Is this script a new mutant script that
we just change all the names to?
Or is this script a power pack script
that we were like, well,
just change this stuff?
No.
So it was like,
we know already because he had written a
previous story that there's these two
characters that have a thing.
So there's a way to explore that thing
without you can explore a relationship
without it being about kissing and make it
out.
And I think that's where that kind of
thing happens in this story,
even in the battle, even in the prep,
even in the aftermath.
You can weave how these people interact
and what they think about each other in
the dialogue.
And I think Ray did a really good
job doing that here.
And I think that's what really showcases.
Because, look,
as cool as the battle is between Last
Gen and Pest, that may not happen, again,
for another ten or fifteen issues.
So you have to sell the people and
the characters.
If they don't care about the characters,
they're just here for the action,
they may not want to come back for
a second issue.
like ah well i don't know if they'll
fight past so i think that's that's what
he did a really good job of in
this issue well matt as always is too
kind to me but really i just want
to sell people on the characters because i
like them and i want everybody else to
like them and i hope i've done a
good job of making them
entertaining and engaging and you draw
you're drawn into them because you want to
know more about them but uh sorry what
was the question was what shortcomings do
they have or like how do they learn
how the first mission reveal about the
strengths and weaknesses of the team oh
the
Well,
first I'm going to go with the joke.
The one big weakness that gets revealed is
Calvary needs wings or a parachute or
something.
Because he almost falls to his death twice
in the same story.
Because, of course,
his whole thing is if somebody with
superpowers attacks him,
his body just naturally summons a counter
to that.
So if you attack him with fire,
he'll be able to create ice.
If you...
attack him with ice he'll be able to
create fire if you shoot lightning at him
a shield will appear but if you drop
him off a building he just falls so
I'm one of the plot lines I'm sort
of brainstorming the worst thing ever yeah
yeah uh well there's gonna be a part
in the calvary backup feature that is
going to be in issue one where he's
attacked by a bunch of guys with guns
so he has to just get by on
his fists and sort of his fighting ability
because he can't sort of just summon
lightning from his hands like the others
he's incredibly powerful because he can go
to toe to toe with any power set
But he also has vulnerabilities.
And something I'm thinking about digging
into for the next issue is how does
he prepare for fighting people who don't
have powers?
Or how does he prepare for the fact
that he doesn't really have powers unless
he's fighting?
Yeah.
And my solution to that is to give
him a suit of power armor.
I'm kidding.
like you've got us invested so i'm like
if he gets a suit of power like
fuck yeah let's go honestly but really i
was gonna like get have a whole bit
where he like he goes to the one
of the other unpowered characters who's
anarchy prime who gets by on sort of
gadgets and detective work and they sort
of work together to see if they can
like
build gadgets for him or maybe they'll go
to tech nine because he's sort of the
tech expert of last gen and the remnant
but i don't know how open the remnant
is to sharing all their tech and stuff
with last gen because last gen struck out
on their own uh something to be ironed
out a little bit later but i heard
if you slip matt a twenty spot he'll
make that stuff happen for you
Heck yeah.
It's got to be a Benjamin and Wayne
talking.
All right.
See what I can do.
All right.
What is Nathan asking?
How long does that process?
I think he's referring to your writing
process.
For me,
it's usually a solid day or two of
sitting down and really kind of planning
that out.
And it also depends on the roster.
It depends on the thing.
but i i will also get to a
point where i'm like yeah i've done enough
let's just go because i'm i'm really
really bad and and anybody who's worked
with me would probably say is i will
say like this is synopsis of issue one
two three and four and then i'll be
there's a plot of issue one and of
the ten points i probably hit five
And because I've made five more,
I really am not bad about the plan.
But if I say, hey,
the story of this issue is that Silent
and Knight get in a motorcycle and a
car.
They go after this thing on the highway.
There's a big battle.
They win at the end.
That's my plot.
I'm not going to hone in on every
page, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Even with Ray,
some of the stuff I've tossed at him
is like, hey...
you know, this one character, his,
his protege has got captured.
He has to go fight this guy at
the end.
This happens.
Make sure these things are discussed.
That's it.
Like sometimes having that openness is
where the creativity comes from.
And sometimes you do the creativity.
I mean,
I've also done stuff where I'm like,
I'll get twelve issue pages in and go,
you know what?
This is wrong and deleted it, you know,
and and you have to be able to
do that.
Because sometimes you're like, nope,
this was wrong.
And there was one thing we were working
on where I think there was...
I rewrote issue two of The Secret Project
for Apogee.
You remember?
And I go like, hey, I'll read this.
And then I would, like,
the next day go, hey,
don't worry about that.
I deleted it all.
I'm going to rewrite it.
And he was like, what?
But it was good.
I'm like, no, it was wrong.
But it was so good.
And I just...
God,
was my note just add more Inglorious
Bastards to it?
Because I feel like I should have given
you a better note.
But yeah, I think that as a writer,
you do.
I sometimes get into the feel.
What does it feel like?
And sometimes, I will commend Bill,
I wrote a Manowar story
and like two months later i went back
to him and said i think this is
wrong i want to change it to this
and it actually put man o war in
a kind of a bad light but it
was a good um arc for the character
and bill was like yeah go ahead write
it and let me see and even though
ultimately the the story was the same
it did give that character much more depth
and much more um much more of a
tragedy to overcome instead of like my
brother was a was was a prick so
i i think that's that's uh that that's
how i hope that answers the process
question i think i answered it too much
no no so and then alex wants to
know which character was the most fun to
write for y'all
it's close because calvary was the first
character i ever wrote for grok uh so
i've got a special he's got a special
place in my heart because he's very much
like a little clueless a little aloof he's
just doing his best he almost gets killed
at least once just because he's distracted
by a pretty girl he's he's doing his
best
But if I had to pick number one,
it's Hangten.
Hangten is my favorite character to write
on Last Gen.
Because he's a surfer superhero.
And so I gave him the California surfer
dude personality.
Very Jeff Spicoli.
Whoa, dude!
And it's just so funny for me.
I have such a fun time with it.
And I don't do it to excess.
I don't make it...
yeah like a stereotype and like it has
bearing on the plot but he's fun to
write because he's such good comedic
relief i like it dude so let's hit
the art real quick in the book how
closely did you get to work with the
uh the artist on this book while you
were developing this
I worked pretty closely with Geraldo,
who drew the main story for this,
where I sent in the script and he
would send layouts and we would sort of
give him some feedback or some notes.
And then he would do the pencils and
we would let him know what we thought.
And then he would do the inks.
He was incredible to work with.
I know he's one of Matt's favorite artists
to work with.
I can't say enough good things about him.
Yeah, Geraldo is...
It's interesting for me because I think
when I first started working with him,
he was a little green.
But he is probably one of the...
not only one of the better artists that
i've worked with over the the several last
several years but also one of the best
collaborators and i think sometimes that
gets lost in these journeymen artists
where they're just trying to like hey i
gotta get this project done so i'll go
to the next one um so i think
yeah he's been a lot of fun to
work with and he does do some incredible
pencils and
He's the one who did Black Cobra number
two.
I can't wait for you guys to see
that.
He did some incredible work in that book.
No, I really...
know it's funny i know we're here to
promote this but i'm just really so
excited for people to actually be able to
read last gen because i had so much
fun writing it like i was rereading the
scripts to prep for this last night and
i'm just chuckling at my own jokes which
is so corny but like i do it
dude you're gonna laugh at your own jokes
and nobody's gonna laugh at you or laugh
with you
Do you care if I tell a couple
of the jokes from the comic?
Because I have so much fun with...
I don't want you to spoil anything, okay?
If you don't want to spoil it,
I wouldn't say it.
But if you're willing to let them go,
then let them go.
Okay, first off.
I had to come up with the secret
identity of Hang Ten.
And I named him Bodhi.
And if you know, you know...
Good, good, good.
Because I love that movie so much.
Wait, we're talking about Baywatch, right?
Yes.
Point Break.
Okay.
All right,
so it was nice being on this show.
It's a nice being on this show.
You guys have a great time.
Hey,
my first thought is Bodhi is the kid
from Baywatch,
and I immediately go to the red bikinis,
okay?
Kill me.
Baywatch?
Oh, my God.
I do have a special place in my
heart for Baywatch.
That was the show I got weirdly into
over the pandemic.
I think I watched three seasons.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, and of course,
it's really funny because I don't have a
ton of the context for the time.
The immediate thing I thought of was,
I was like, oh, hey,
that's Frank Hardy from the Hardy Boys
because Parker Stevenson's in the first
season.
Yes, yes.
I think I was more like,
why is the tool time chick on this
show?
Also true.
Yeah.
Also true.
Yeah.
But I just had a lot of fun
with some of the comedic bits of this.
Like when they're trying to figure out
what the pest is,
at one point Calvary says,
we think he might be an alien or
a zombie.
Honestly, open to suggestions.
And Hank Ten's response is,
what about an alien zombie or a zombie
alien?
and just the group consensus is like okay
go sit in the corner yeah yeah go
watch baywatch go watch it's a great show
guy go watch baywatch it's a great show
why not sorry yeah sorry where were we
actually i was i was on the beach
But let's jump into the Kickstarter real
quick.
I know there's only a few days left
on the Kickstarter, I believe.
So what can backers expect from the
Kickstarter?
And what are some of the perks that
y'all are offering to backers on this
Kickstarter?
That's what the link is for.
I mean,
Bill could probably tell it better than
either of us, but...
There's the very basic digital tier of
getting last gen number one,
and then there's the digital deluxe where
you get last gen number one and last
gen number zero and some other cool
things.
Then there's a basic package where you
just get issue number one and some other
little bit of swag.
There's an intermediate one where you get
zero and one plus some extras,
which is the one I recommend.
And then we have like Diamond level where
you get Last Gen number one and Last
Gen number zero and some limited edition
stuff.
There's versions where you can get a
t-shirt.
There's a version,
there's only one slot left in this,
where you can get your own original
character to appear on cover B of Last
Gen.
There's going to be a Last Gen t-shirt
available and some trading cards and
posters.
And it's going to be amazing.
I got to be honest.
I do have my eyes on that t-shirt
because I have...
It's definitely a bit of a... Hang on.
You mean to tell me they're making you
write last gen and they haven't even sent
you a free tee?
I mean,
I don't think it's been made yet.
So it's... That's Bill.
I mean,
that's the least they can do is toss
you a t-shirt, man.
All right, Bill.
Come on now.
I mean, fingers crossed.
Bill's seriously slacking, man.
At least a grump tee something.
Let my man get his t-shirt,
even though he lives in Canada.
I don't know when you're going to get
to wear a t-shirt up there.
It'll get worse.
Here we go.
Bill's going to take care of you.
You're welcome.
I got you a free t-shirt.
Matt said he'll cover the price of it.
Don't worry.
I'll cover the shipping,
which will be eighty dollars.
My last Kickstarter I backed in Canada did
absolutely.
It was like thirteen or fourteen bucks.
It was ridiculous.
yeah no uh james is right i do
have two alpha red t-shirts and i was
going i was going to wear uh one
i was gonna wear them on this show
but then i was like is that bad
is that like promoting one thing when i
should be promoting another i i don't know
and then i realized both of my alpha
red t-shirts are in the laundry oh you
ain't ever pulled a shirt out of the
laundry gave me the sniff and they put
it on
If it passes the sniff test.
Exactly, you're good.
You put it in the dryer for five
or ten minutes and put it fresh.
With a dryer sheet.
Gets rid of the wrinkles, freshens it up,
and there's no smell coming through,
brother.
You'd have been fine.
At least you're not sitting in an office
with a bunch of Wonder Woman stuff.
Hey, we're not here to judge you, Matt.
Not this episode.
We'll wait until you're solo again,
and then I'll spread more judgment on you.
So if anybody's wondering, me and Matt,
this is like our normal conversation
style.
We shoot jabs at each other and barbs
at each other throughout.
traditionally i'm recording out of my
office but i'm using my wife's office and
that's why i'm sitting down because i
usually don't sit while i'm talking but
it's because internet but anyway um no
james is right we wouldn't have been able
to smell it from here should have gone
with it i ended up just going with
like my san diego because that's like a
classic comic thing something i'm very
proud of but uh next time next time
but um
Without spoilers,
what can readers expect from Last Gen as
the series continues?
Wow.
I'd have to say you can expect to
continue to see these characters interact
and grow and change because they're not
going to be the same.
Like,
Fingers crossed we make it to something
like issue ten.
The Atoman in issue ten would not be
the same character as Atoman in issue one.
These characters are going to grow and
they're going to change.
Like your young adult years,
as I've been told,
are a time where you undergo a lot
of changes and you learn who you really
are.
I'm kidding.
I have experienced that.
Yeah.
But as someone who just really recently
experienced that and is still experiencing
that,
I hope I can bring that to the
characters that they're going to change.
They're going to make mistakes.
They're going to grow and they're not
going to be a perfect a hundred percent
of the time.
And when you have the weight of the
world on your shoulders,
and in some cases,
the weight of holding onto a superhero's
name, who's already established,
like what does it mean when you screw
up or what does it mean when you're
shown up or when you fail or,
when you succeed and you don't get the
credit you think you deserve.
Like the great thing is there's so many
amazing situations and story arcs that we
can put them through in comics.
And because they're all new superheroes,
they'll all be experiencing it for the
first time.
And that's why I liken the series to
invincible because that show and the comic
were huge to me.
And you got to see all of these,
Kind of ideas and concepts we'd seen in
comics before,
but filtered through Mark's unique
perspective.
And I hope I can do something similar.
I know I'm not Robert Kirkman.
I know I'm never going to be able
to reach those heights.
Or, well, fingers crossed.
You will.
Easily.
You're twenty-two years old.
Trust me when I tell you this.
You've got years and years on you.
If you're at your level now,
you're going to go far.
Well, thank you.
You're really too kind, and I really,
really do hope for that.
I hope we can make people care about
these characters and then take them on an
adventure and see how these characters
change.
And I'll do my best not to kill
anybody off.
But no promises.
Sometimes you just have to.
And I think an issue like four or
five,
there will be a new member that joins
the team that could or could not be
a pre-existing character in Remnant
already.
So that's going to greet them.
I'm glad you went there, Matt,
because my next question was going to be,
how does Last Gen fit into the larger
future of the Remnant universe?
There are some things that are coming in
some of the future issues of the main
title that will also have some
repercussions across the way.
I can't give away stuff because it's
spoilery.
Yeah, no spoilers.
But there will be...
As the remnant story progresses and things
start becoming worse and worse for them,
it will actually behoove the last gen to
separate themselves more and more from the
remnant,
which means they're going to be even more
so on their own.
It kind of almost like as out of
a survival technique or a need to survive
to just kind of like, okay, well...
No,
we don't know who those guys are because
you guys, you know.
So that'll also be changing the landscape
of what they're going through.
They're even more so on their own.
And also, you have to remember,
a lot of these characters were members of
the Remnant.
and well maybe they're last gen now and
they're only tangentially attached to the
remnant now not everybody's going to make
that distinction so maybe some enemies of
the remnant who want to wipe out the
remnant to destroy every last trace of it
are going to come for last gen and
you got to be ready for that like
your history i mean two of the main
characters two of my favorite characters
in last gen are rooted in the history
that sort of goes into them being heroes
and history is going to play an important
part in the next couple issues.
And it's never going to be completely
removed from the remnant.
What happens in the remnant will trickle
down to last gen.
You'll notice it.
I like where this is going.
I really do.
And I can't wait to get my hands
on and read these issues when they get
to my house.
And you'll be able to look forward to
those because I'll open them up on an
episode of What's in the Box, man.
Also,
before I let y'all get out of here,
Matt and Ray,
tell everybody where they can find you and
Grop comments.
You can find Grok Comics at
TribulationTaskForce.com and across all
social media, I believe, just Grok Comics.
You can find me across all social media
at TheHustleMan.
That's Hustle with a J.
Hustle with a J.
I need to put my full name on
here.
I only have my first name because this
is what I use for my podcast,
and it already has my last name up
there.
So, yes, Instagram, Threads, Twitter,
YouTube, TheHustleMan.com.
I've definitely got a bit of a smaller
profile.
I'm just Ray McKay on Facebook,
M-A-C-K-A-Y.
L-O-U-S-E.
Sorry.
He did it.
I was about to, and I was like,
nope, let him finish.
My bad.
My bad.
Old habit.
That's really where I'm most available.
And yeah,
I'm just available to talk about all
things comics.
And Grok,
you can find it at the website.
As they say,
if you punch me into YouTube,
you can find a couple other podcasts I've
been on where I stumble through trying to
talk about my love of comics.
And if you go through some other
publishers, you will see his stuff.
He's done some incredible work for alpha
red for big bang.
Um,
he's got some other projects coming that
I'm really stoked for.
So you're going to,
you're going to see my man rate everywhere
here pretty soon.
And I am just excited to be.
hopefully a little part and see where he
goes.
I'm here for it, man.
He's being too humble.
Matt's been a huge help with so many
things I've worked on.
One huge thing that I can't wait to
talk about at some point,
Matt has been a huge help with.
Um,
and I'm very proud of all the other
work I've done for other publishers like
big bang.
I'm really proud of what I've been able
to help James with on alpha red and
as well as like standard comics,
proud of the work I've done there.
Uh,
I'm just really jazzed that I get to
do comics.
I get to write comics and people pay
me to do it.
Anytime you say jazz,
you have to do jazz hands.
There you go.
There it is.
Perfect.
There you go.
I love it.
And I hate to let y'all go,
but we're at that point in the show.
I want to say that the future of
indie comics and just comments in general,
the future is bright with people like Ray
out there, Nathan, SisFifteenComments,
just to name a few.
The future is looking very bright for the
comic book industry.
And so...
This is where we do this.
Last Gen is a story about legacy,
rebellion,
and the pressure of becoming who you're
meant to be.
All wrapped up in classic superhero
energy.
Be sure to check out Last Gen Zero
and Number One.
Support the campaign at Kickstarter.
You'll find it is super easy.
You won't miss it.
and help shape the future of the remnant
universe this has been the chairman of the
united states department of nerds where
indie comics come to life thanks for
having us there bye-bye thank you