A key component of the modern
world economy, the chemical
industry delivers products and
innovations to enhance everyday life.
It is also an industry in transformation
where chemical executives and
workers are delivering growth and
industry changing advancements while
responding to pressures from investors,
regulators, and public opinion.
Discover how leading companies
are approaching these challenges
here on the chemical show.
Join Victoria Meyer, president
of Progressio Global and
host of the chemical show.
As she speaks with executives across the
industry and learns how they are leading
their companies to grow, transform, and
push industry boundaries on all frontiers.
Here's your host, Victoria Meyer.
victoria_1_12-18-2024_182533:
Hi, this is Victoria Meyer,
welcome back to the chemical show
where chemicals means business.
Today I am bringing you our annual
highlight episode that I like
to call wrapped and replayed.
So this is a play on
words in some respects.
So Spotify's wrapped, which you may
know they bring out every year, um, in
December, highlighting the top things that
you may have listened to over the course
of the year, whether it's music podcasts,
et cetera, and then Apple's replay.
The other piece of this is, this is a
bit of a Christmas gift for you, right?
So we are publishing
this on December 24th.
Christmas is almost here, the
holiday season, whether you're
celebrating Christmas or Hanukkah
or Kwanzaa, or, um, frankly, just.
The happy new year and, and
having the opportunity to
celebrate the end of the year.
So this is a bit of my gift to you.
What I'm bringing to you today is, uh,
the top five episodes of 2024 as well as
a few interesting tidbits along the way.
So I encourage you to listen.
Or watch if you're doing this on
YouTube, um, listen to learn number
one, what you should listen to next or
re listen to, because we know that you
may not listen to every episode and now
shocker, but I know that that's true.
So now that you're on break,
hopefully, it's a great chance just to.
Put on the chemical show, hang out
while you're, I don't know, drinking
hot coffee and looking at the fireplace.
Great time to listen to and
catch up on the chemical show.
That's number one.
Number two, you're going to learn
some fun facts about the chemical show
and its fans, you and your peers who
are listening to the chemical show.
And then three, this is a great.
share with your friends and colleagues,
giving them the gift of the chemical show.
So it is really an all encompassing all in
one, a little bit about what the chemical
show is, a lot about what our top episodes
are and who our audience members are.
So I encourage you to
keep sharing this episode.
Speaking of gifts, my
additional gift to you is.
Is the guide to the top 10
leadership lessons shared here
on the chemical show in 2024.
So these are insights gleaned from the
chemical show guests, including Michael
Hines from BASF, Bonnie Tully from
Avonik and Sean Riley from Vessonautical.
Visit thechemicalshow.
com slash leadership to get your copy.
I'm going to also link to that in
the show notes so that you have that.
Um, and what I really love about this
is it is not just quotes and insights.
There's also some questions
and suggestions for you to
reflect on and take action on.
Perfect.
For year end, because if you're like
me, I find that the end of the year and
the beginning of the new year, a great
time to take pause, to reflect, to take
a look back and see how far we've come
and then get ready for the year ahead.
So again, the chemical show.
com slash leadership, grab it.
You don't want to miss it.
It's a great set of insights
and a guide to help you in your
career and your leadership.
Now, on to today's episode.
So wrapped and replayed, a few
fun facts about the chemical show.
Number one, we are a global podcast, super
exciting, listened to in 115 countries
around the world, which is amazing.
And 63 percent of our listeners
of course are in the U S.
Probably not a surprise given
that I'm sitting here in the U.
S.
and many of my guests are.
But what I find amazing and actually
just a great reflection of our industry
is that we are in a global industry
and people are interested in listening
and learning from each other in this
global marketplace that we're living in.
The second thing about our listeners,
we're all a bit mid career.
Now the reality is it's a bell
curve in terms of distribution
of who's listening and what their
experience is in the industry.
Um, Transcripts I'm going to say that
most of our listeners are mid career.
The reality is, um, you know, I find it
a little bit better maybe than saying
middle aged because what is that really?
But the average age of
our listeners is 45 to 54.
Again, not a surprise when you look across
the chemical industry and who is here.
However, I would also say that we're
actually almost equally split across
a variety of Of age groups and
demographics, whether you're early
career, mid-career, or late career.
The chemical show is for you, um,
and for your colleagues and you know
that, the chemical show is growing.
Super excited to say that we
have grown by 65% in 2024, and
that is downloads, listeners,
subscribers, followers on LinkedIn
and subscribers to our email list.
So, number one, if you are listening
to this on Spotify, Apple, iHeartRadio,
one of any number of platforms,
and you are not currently an active
subscriber, go hit that subscribe button.
You don't want to miss an episode.
If you are already a subscriber,
well, hey, thank you.
We really appreciate that.
And I think it's just
a sign of the impact.
That the podcast has, as well as
an indication of who you are as
listeners interested in learning,
growing, and connecting more
with people across the industry.
So kudos to you.
So here's my other piece
that's interesting.
So I dug into Spotify wrapped and
Spotify actually has some of the
better data, um, because they put
a little bit more work into it and.
And our listeners are kind of across,
spread across Spotify, Apple, YouTube.
Some people go like something like 10
percent of our audience goes direct to
the website to listen to each episode.
So if you didn't know that that was
a possibility, now, you know, um, if
you did know that was a possibility.
Great.
Kudos to you.
Again, you're listening, you're
reading, you're following.
That's critical.
So, um, but Spotify likes to provide
us a little bit of information.
I like that.
The other top shows that you
and your fellow chemical show
listeners listen to and follow.
So may or may not be
surprised by this list.
Number one, the Joe Rogan show.
Number two, the Lex Friedman show, or
maybe it's the Lex Friedman experience.
Number three, the daily, which is
a news show that comes out daily.
All right.
So those first three are not a surprise.
I have heard about them.
Um, I'm not really surprised because
they are also the biggest podcasts
globally across all demographics,
all groups of listeners, et cetera.
All right.
So here's one that I did not know.
All in with Shemex,
Jason, Sax, and Friedberg.
I don't know.
Who are you that are listening to
this and what is this show all about?
So that's number one.
And then the second one, which I think is
a little hilarious and I guess I didn't
know about it because it's a secret.
It is Matt and Shane's secret.
So, um, maybe go check them out.
They are what some of your fellow
listeners are listening to.
Maybe you're already subscribing
and listening, who knows?
Um, what does that tell me though, about
the chemical show listeners, what they
like to listen to and what Um, what you,
what I know about you, number one, you
were willing to listen to long podcasts.
So, okay.
If, I don't know if you guys are
aware of this, Joe Rogan, Lex Freeman.
And then I think I, it was the all
in with Shemax and Matt and Shane's.
These episodes are all like
an hour and a half long.
So what's ironic to me is when I first
started the chemical show three and a
half years ago, somebody messaged me
and I'm always looking for feedback.
And by the way, if you've got feedback.
Reach out, let me know, send me a
message on LinkedIn, add a comment
to YouTube if you're watching
YouTube, Spotify, Apple, there's
different sources to get a hold of me.
So please do.
I love your feedback.
I read every email.
I look at every comment.
It's super cool.
Um, and Um, so back to this hour and
a half long episodes my episodes,
as you guys know, of the chemical show
are typically around 30 minutes and
yet I have had people contact me when I
said, Hey, what can we do differently?
Somebody said, you know, that
episodes are really long.
Have you ever thought about
splitting it into two?
I'm like, no.
But thank you for that feedback.
Um, obviously, as you know, you can
always pause and come back to it.
Um, but however, I am thinking
that perhaps maybe we could
do some longer episodes.
I personally try to target
around the 30 minute mark.
I think it's a lot for a busy
professional to get some insights
and try to really bring what's
needed, um, and informative to you.
But, um, if you're willing to listen
to an hour and a half of two or
two hours of episode, by the way,
I will listen to a couple of those
other shows that we've talked about.
I'm not sure I really want to listen to
him for two hours, but somebody does, so.
Great.
Anyway, I don't know where I'm
going with this, but we may be
getting some longer episodes.
Probably not.
I do find 30 to 35 minutes is a
sweet spot, but if you would like
a longer episode, let me know.
And we will work on integrating those in.
So that's number one.
Um, number two, what do I,
what have I learned about?
You and your fellow chemical show
listeners when I look at this data and
demographics is You like based on what
I'm seeing about your top podcasts
business political commentary and maybe a
little bit of comedy thrown in now By the
way, this is in contrast to the general
podcast listening demographic, right?
Which is entertainment, right?
So, uh, Joe Rogan is up at the top.
Collar Daddy, is up at the top.
I don't know if you guys
ever listen to that.
It's a show.
Um, and it's a, it's a top, So it's a
great show, I guess for some people, true
crime, um, whether it be crime jockeys
or one of many others and then lifestyle.
So again, those are the kinds of
things that, um, people in the chemical
show community typically listen to
versus the average podcast listener.
So you're a bit more business minded.
I'm probably not surprised.
Um, anyway, that's a bit about
who you are and what we know about
you and what we know about you
and your fellow audience members.
And I hope you find that
piece of it interesting.
Now let's talk about the
top episodes of the year.
So the first two episodes, um,
of our top episodes that are.
Audio podcast.
So these are things that you're, you
know, listening to, obviously on Apple,
Spotify, on the website, one of the
other apps, iHeartRadio, et cetera.
So the number one episode listen to as
an audio podcast is John Richardson,
the first episode of the year, actually.
So episode 144.
Petrochemicals in 2024 capacity
overbuilding codependent markets.
Okay.
I'm actually going to link to
that so you can find it easily.
But, um, episode number one
of the year has been the most
listened to episode of the year.
There's some math we can talk about,
but the reality is, People want to know
what's going on in markets, which also
leads me to the second most popular
episode was from Steve Lewandowski of
chemical market analytics close second,
also published in January of 2024, which
was the 2024 chemical market outlook.
Or as I like to say, Call her murky.
So, you know, it's my little
play on call her daddy.
If you might remember we asked
Steve Hey Steve, how would
you describe markets in 2024?
Murky, and in fact, I'm gonna include
a clip here of Steve talking about
the markets and what the expectations
were at the beginning of the year
Victoria: So let's go ahead and
just start out at the high level
and talk about the general state
of economy as we enter into 2024.
What is it that you and your team
are observing and reflecting on 2024?
What are the key things that
we should be looking at?
Steve: Yeah, I think the only
consensus from an economic
standpoint is there's no consensus
Victoria: Back to that
"foggy".
Steve: You can listen to the news and 1
view is, yeah, it's going to get better.
It's not as bad as we thought.
And, demand is going to come back
and the other side of the equation.
You hear other saying.
You know, I'm looking at factors
and this is going to be really in
a, in a bad place for a long term.
And, we thought it was going to
happen in 23, but it's definitely
going to happen in 2024.
So back to foggy, this is why it's foggy.
How do you really assess the
consumers, the health of the consumers?
At the end of the day, the consumer
is going to be willing to buy
widgets of any form or fashion.
And, you know, that's the key.
And, I've read a report on looking
at money in circulation, M1, M2.
And then it seems, you know, a guy quoted,
look the trends today are, are aligned
with some of the biggest, pullbacks
in the economy that we've ever seen.
And how do you argue with that?
But, okay, there's more controls,
the feds there, there's World Bank
and, all these different regions
have different control mechanisms.
Maybe they can tone that down a bit.
But we still see a lot
of headwinds in China.
China's, you know, it's been a growth
engine for many, many years and the
shutdown, the COVID issues, young people
not having jobs, the aging population,
they're shrinking in population.
There's a lot of challenges coming out
of China, which, again, they sneeze
and everyone else is going to catch
a cold because they're such a big
economy, so we're watching the banks.
We're watching the interest rates.
Will construction restart?
Our fed said 6 drops over the
course of this year in the rate.
So we'll see how that
ultimately plays out.
And, you know, these economies getting
heated, overheated and consumers.
What's their debt level?
Have they pulled their bank accounts down?
Do they have money available?
Inflation's been problematic.
So, the things you have to spend
money on, heating your house, paying
your bills, buying food mobility,
all that's going up in, in cost.
So the extra money you
have to buy widgets.
That pool of money is decreased.
victoria_1_12-18-2024_182533: our
top episode overall this year, when
we combine our audio listens as
well as YouTube, and by the way,
I've started talking about this.
YouTube is one of the fastest
growing podcast platforms.
Globally.
Um, probably a lot of reasons behind it.
Number one, owned by Google and Google
and YouTube both are promoting it.
They want to keep you on the platform.
That'd be one thing.
But the second piece is I know,
you know, you're interested.
What do people look like?
Maybe there's some additional graphics
and insight, which we sometimes do bring
in on our YouTube channel that share, um,
some information about whatever the topic
is that we're talking about and more.
If you're not already following
us and subscribe to the chemical
show podcast on YouTube, do it.
We publish some additional episodes
and interviews there as well as
we publish a lot of our shorts.
So if you're just looking for bite
sized nuggets of content and insight,
check out YouTube is a great place.
The chemical show podcast.
We've got a ton of content there for you.
And actually we've got it categorized by
Types of shows you might be interested in
whether it be sustainability whether it's
our CEO series and more So YouTube is a
great place to go Again, back to when we
look at our number one episode overall,
it was episode 188 with Eric Appelman
and the title of that episode is, um,
How to Scale Sustainable Technology.
So Eric is from Aduro Clean
Technologies and, um, that episode
just blew up, especially on YouTube,
also across the audio platforms.
Um, why?
Aduro listed on the NASDAQ just.
Four days prior to that
episode being published.
So it tied in with just
a great bump in traffic.
And in fact, Eric references, I'll
briefly on our podcast episode, which
was recorded, frankly, a couple of
weeks before we went, we published it.
So he knew it was coming.
I didn't know the exact timing.
It was phenomenal.
Um, a great bump.
And by the way, great.
Interesting topic, um,
interesting technology and Eric
is a, a wealth of knowledge.
So I'm including a little
clip here from Eric.
Um, I hope you listen to that.
Eric: The other theater where we are
acting and that is the sort of beautiful
ambidextrous life of a good startup.
This is that we are
working with investors.
We are financed by retail investors,
and it is a fantastic thing to
realize that we are going to be
listing on the Nasdaq very soon.
Victoria: That's exciting.
Eric: attract more, uh, more
money, more funds for this one.
Victoria: Are you, are you
currently listed today?
Eric: We are listed in Toronto
and in Frankfurt.
Uh, on, on, uh, starters, exchange,
but that's relatively low liquidity,
obviously by going to the United States,
uh, you come in, in heaven of capital.
Victoria: Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's very cool.
And I think, uh, I, until recently I
hadn't realized that, startup companies
such as yours were actually listing on the
NASDAQ to, as a means of raising capital.
So I think that's really exciting.
Eric: Yeah.
Yeah.
There's actually, originally it
starts often by making your retail
investors able to, to trade.
Yeah.
Because there's no liquidity, of
course, until you're enlisted, but
it is done in a secondary step.
But it becomes a way To attract money.
And we have done a couple
of raises in a row.
We've, by the way, never traded down.
Every new raise was for a
higher price than before.
And, uh, yeah, that, that is how we work.
And this would be a
very exciting next step.
Victoria: Can't wait to see it.
Yeah.
victoria_1_12-18-2024_182533:
Moving on our most frequent guests.
So this is of no surprise to you.
If you are a regular and longtime
listener of the chemical show podcast,
it is John Richardson from ICIS.
John has been on the chemical
show six times over the past
several years, twice in 2024.
Um, and.
A big part of it is John just brings
some great and sharp insights into
what's going on in chemical markets,
particularly the effect and influence
of China in terms of what's happening
in Chinese markets, um, and within the
Chinese economy and what the influence
of that is on the rest of the chemical
industry and in particular polyolefins.
John's episode, I'm going to include
a clip from here is episode 179, how
the global chemical market is shifting.
And it is, and you know,
you and I both know it.
So listen to that clip, um, and
then go follow the full episode.
And then in the meantime, if you
are not following John on LinkedIn,
you need to, so I will include a
link to John's LinkedIn profile.
He publishes.
Um, regularly, perhaps daily, at
least weekly, um, some really sharp
and great analysis and insights about
what is driving chemical markets.
Um, he has sometimes a bit of a contrarian
view, definitely very outspoken and,
uh, just a delight to speak with and
to bring to you on the chemical show.
john: I think fundamentally we've got
this still in commodity chemicals now.
It's got this massive imbalance between
supply and demand, the, the scale of
which we've never seen before, right?
I mean, to give you an example I
very rarely look at Styrene.
I looked at Styrene for a client last
week, and it's not how the data is
consistent across all the petrochemicals.
So here's the numbers I can remember.
So we have operating rates averaging
globally from 2024 to 2030 at 75%.
Which, as you know, is very
bad, um, historically the
long term 88 percent globally.
Now, what you can do, a very simple
exercise, which is wrong, of course,
because it's just guesswork, is you
keep production the same, which is about
demand, isn't it, globally, and you
divide production by capacity, you take
capacity down to get back to 88%, which
is normal in the district conditions.
To do that, Capacity over
that period have to fall by 1.
2 million tons of total
across the seven years.
That's a lot.
Yeah, as opposed to our base
case of capacity growing at 5.
6 million tons.
So it's a mirror image, right?
Imagine that.
So it has to shrink by 1.
2 rather than grow by 5.
6 to get back.
And you start, you know, going into
the data, why are we are where we are?
Well, to keep saying, I need a wisdom
of crowds thing, um, about what
people thought would happen in China
before 2021, the Evergrande moment,
which we've talked about before.
And across petrochemicals, they
thought China would carry on
growing 6 to 8 percent a year.
Now it transpires, that's not
going to happen because of
demographics, the end of the property
bubble, the geopolitical issues.
So it's going to grow 1 percent
say, 3%, some people say minus even.
Wow.
Chemicals, possibly, I don't know.
But we know certainly 6 to
8 isn't going to happen.
victoria_1_12-18-2024_182533:
So I have a few, um, honorable
mentions I'm going to talk about.
There is the episode that prompted the
most phone calls So I will say I do
get feedback sometimes quite quickly
from people When they've listened to an
episode so I have some you know Some of
our loyal listeners call me on the you
know, the hotline and say oh my gosh
You've got an error in editing here or
whatever That's usually what I hear about.
So by the way, again, if you hear
that, send me a message on LinkedIn.
Sometimes oops is make their way through
the system despite our quality check.
And we want to make sure your
listening experience is amazing.
So, um, that's that, but the episode
that prompted the most phone calls, in
fact, some of these phone calls were
coming in at seven 30 and eight AM.
So delighted to know that you guys
are listening early and I've heard
from a number of people that they
listen in the morning as they're
getting ready for work, perhaps as
they're commuting to the office.
So I find that's cool.
I'm happy to be part of your Tuesday
routine, but the episode that prompted
the most phone calls on the day
it dropped was episode 169 with.
Uh, Gaurab Chakrabarty,
who is the CEO of Solugen.
Seriously, I had like three
phone calls before 8am.
Victoria, let's talk about that episode.
Yeah, let's talk about that episode.
So I think it was just great.
Um, obviously Solugen has a great story.
They are definitely a bit of a media
darling in the sense that they are
holding out a lot of hope, right, for the
industry in terms of their advancements
around green chemistry and driving
to a sustainable future, um, for the
industry, which many of us are really
hopeful for, right, where, um, it's
a path that we're on as we continue
developing and growing and innovating
throughout the chemical industry
so again, I'm going to link
to that episode with Gaurab.
Great conversation.
And by the way, he was one of
the leaders that I really wanted
to get onto the chemical show.
So it took a couple of years to make
it happen and was really glad to have
that opportunity and that conversation.
My next, uh, little interesting tidbit
is the guest that made it to the top 10
twice and that is Eric Bober of Nexen ECA.
So I'm gonna link both of Eric's
episodes on here And it was just great.
We talked a lot about green methanol.
We talked about what was
going on in the industry.
And so Eric was definitely
a popular guest.
In fact, probably if we add his downloads
together from both of his episodes, he's
absolutely in the top five by the way,
but both episodes were in the top seven.
So I may have to go back and do the
math and I'll get Watch LinkedIn.
I'll give you an update in
terms of where he stacks up and
where his episodes stack up.
But a couple of great episodes there.
Additional episodes that make
honorable mention, right?
So, Driving Innovation and Recycling,
which was a episode that I did on
behalf of the ACC highlighting some
of their sustainability and innovation
leaders, that was top five in YouTube.
So, got a lot of great downloads and
a lot of follows in YouTube, frankly,
because it's An interesting topic, um,
and then the other one was six trends
influencing the chemical industry over
the next five years, which was a solo
episode I did, um, talking about the
trends that are influencing the industry,
obviously, uh, I added on my seventh
trend the following week, which by the
way, the seventh trend is sustainability.
So there's your showstopper.
But with that six trends,
we've also published a guide.
So here is your second
gift of the holiday season.
When you go to the chemical show.
com backslash seven trends.
You can download our guide to the
seven trends that are influencing
the chemical industry through 2030.
Insightful, um, insights gleaned
from both the chemical show and
the conversations we've had here
as well as our own research.
Um, and I think you're going
to really appreciate it.
Consider that my second gift
to you of the holiday season.
As we wrap this up, you might ask, what
does it take to get to the top five?
And by the way, this is going to be
something we're going to be promoting
to your marketers and, and guys, you
sometimes say, how do I get my CEO on?
How do I get somebody for
my leadership team on?
How do I get on the chemical show?
Well, um, a couple of ways.
Number one, again, reach out to
me on LinkedIn, send me a message.
Number two, if you go
to the chemical show.
com under opportunities, there's a
chance to fill out some information
about being a guest on the podcast.
I would love to have you and
have your leadership here, but
how do you get to the top five?
Like what's the magic mojo?
Number one, it is clearly
about market outlooks.
So the chemical show listeners,
you are interested in understanding
what's happening in the industry
today and in the future.
So we will continue to publish
market outlooks, particularly at the
beginning of the year in January.
And I've got a couple of
great ones coming out.
I can't wait to share those with
you, um, as well as midyear.
Right?
So important to stay attuned with what is
going on in markets and in the industry.
Um, it's so critical.
The second thing is timely news, right?
So I shared with you about my episode
with Eric Appelman from Aduro.
We'd absolutely got a bump from
Aduro's cycle and their marketing
team was really strategic as we
conversed about this to getting
the episode on at the right timing.
Timing is everything, right guys,
you know this, um, you can't time the
markets, but you can time the chemical
show both from a length perspective,
but also when you appear on it.
So let's talk about that.
I think timing is everything.
The third piece is sharing.
So we talked about Eric Bober's
both episodes being in the top
10 of the episodes this year.
The reality is.
His episodes were also the
most shared on LinkedIn.
Um, and what I know and what you
should know is that sharing within
your network helps grow awareness and
visibility and downloads and listens
and shares your story and shares
your message, which is so critical.
Eric and his team really
activated and did a great job.
My fourth thing of what it takes to
get in the top five learning, right?
So if we think about the six trends.
Episode which I added
another trend on later.
So it's really the seven trends.
Um, Um, it's about learning.
It's about, again, being interested
in what's going on in chemical markets
and how that influence you and your
business and what you can learn from it.
So I think that is so critical.
And then the last thing is, is having
an interesting hook, whether it's
your CEO, whether it's your business
model, um, whether it's the fact that.
You know, you're the first 2
billion unicorn in the industry,
which is the case of solution.
And in my interview with Gaurav
Chakrabarty, um, great conversation,
but having an interesting hook makes it
critical to having a great episode, um,
and an episode that gets to the top five.
So I can't wait to see.
Which episodes make it to the top
five in 2025, but I'm so glad to
have you here in 2024 listening,
sharing, learning, and growing.
So thank you.
Thank you for being part of
the chemical show podcast.
Um, thank you for the feedback that
you provide throughout the year.
Thank you for sharing the podcast
and I hope you have a wonderful
holiday season and I look forward to
connecting with you in the new year.
Thanks.