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Duck season is getting closer, and waterfowl hunters are facing a few big changes—especially when it comes to ammunition.
In this final episode of the DUX Series, host Jimbo Robinson and co-host David Schuessler sit down with Nathan Robinson of Winchester Ammunition to discuss the current state of waterfowl loads, rising tungsten prices, new product innovations, and what hunters can expect heading into the upcoming season.
The conversation explores everything from the growing popularity of sub-gauge shotguns to the realities of ammunition manufacturing and supply. Nathan explains how changing material costs are impacting the industry, why steel remains the backbone of waterfowl hunting, and what makes Winchester’s newer products like Final Pass unique. Along the way, the group also talks shooting sports, shotgun patterning, legendary Winchester history, and the excitement surrounding the upcoming DUX Waterfowl Show.
Topics Covered
- Why tungsten prices have increased dramatically
- Winchester's Final Pass blended waterfowl load
- The future of sub-gauge waterfowl hunting
- Why shotgun patterning matters more than most hunters realize
- Winchester's legacy and role in conservation
- Shooting sports and youth participation
- What visitors can expect at the Winchester booth during DUX
- Upcoming DU 90th Anniversary collaborations
Listen now: www.ducks.org/DUPodcast
Send feedback: DUPodcast@ducks.org
SPONSORS:
Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails:
Whether you’re winding down with your best friend, or celebrating with your favorite crew, Bird Dog brings award-winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly.
Creators and Guests
Host
Jimbo Robinson
DUPodcast Co-Host
What is Ducks Unlimited Podcast?
Ducks Unlimited Podcast is a constant discussion of all things waterfowl; from in-depth hunting tips and tactics, to waterfowl biology, research, science, and habitat updates. The DU Podcast is the go-to resource for waterfowl hunters and conservationists. Ducks Unlimited is the world's leader in wetlands conservation.
Hey. That was me.
Jimbo Robinson:That was you?
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. Oh, feel like I'm part of Real Crime Podcast right now.
David Schuessler:Let me ask you a question. Was it the the two by nine and a halfs? Yeah. Yeah. That was me too.
David Schuessler:Oh, wouldn't I wouldn't to brag on them. I wouldn't grab the box to take it to show somebody.
Jimbo Robinson:We're just talking about this. We'll talk about this on the episode. Alright. Have you got the written time now? We're, like, two minutes in.
Chris Isaac:Six, almost seven minutes.
Jimbo Robinson:Oh, nice. Alright.
VO:You're tuned in to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. Conserving wetlands, restoring habitat, and working to fill the skies with waterfowl today, tomorrow, and forever. From field tested hunting insights to the biggest conservation wins across North America, This is your front row seat to wetlands conservation in action. The DU Podcast is proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're wrapping up a hunt with your best friend or kicking back with your crew, Bird Dog brings award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly.
Jimbo Robinson:Welcome back to another installment of the DUX series, our final installment of this series here on the Ducks Unlimited Podcast.
Nathan Robinson:There we
Jimbo Robinson:go. I'm your host, Jimbo Robinson, alongside David Schuessler. This year's DUX presented by Purina Pro Plan is next weekend.
David Schuessler:Next week. It's here, baby.
Jimbo Robinson:It is right around the corner, July 31 through August 2. I feel
Chris Isaac:like that deserves another.
Jimbo Robinson:Yes. Yeah. I feel like we've been talking about this for it feels like we've been talking about it for a long time, but time has flown by. We will be at the Renaissance Convention Center for some of us starting on Monday.
David Schuessler:In the air conditioning.
Jimbo Robinson:In the air conditioning. But today in studio, we have mister Nathan Robinson from Winchester, extremely longtime partner of Ducks Unlimited and DUX. How are you doing?
Nathan Robinson:I'm doing great. Glad to be here with you guys. I feel like I'm getting to kick off DUX a little early by being here a week beforehand. It's cool.
Jimbo Robinson:Oh, we got some boxes if you'd like to really, you know, feel the part of the group.
David Schuessler:They're loading the truck this afternoon in the warehouse. They truly are. Yeah. We can go back there,
Nathan Robinson:and we just put in our order for the event materials that are gonna be shipping out as well. So it's it's crunch time.
Jimbo Robinson:It is. And and you said at lunch today that y'all have been on the road for a while.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. This is a really busy time of year. Early spring, kind of a shot show through some of the consumer trade shows is busy, and then right now we've got a lot of shooting events and a lot of consumer events that all overlap for about a six week period.
Jimbo Robinson:Makes perfect sense because there's a lot of people on my team that have been at shoots for the last four weeks and all over the country and kind of Ducks kinda wraps down that that. Summertime is a massive time for for young athletes shooting.
Nathan Robinson:Absolutely. Grand American is right around the corner, so we got two weeks hanging out in Sparta, Illinois. I'll probably be another shade darker after baking out there for a few days.
Jimbo Robinson:And if you were in Memphis, you'd be a lot less you'd have probably 10 pounds off of you as well if you can even lose 10 pounds because
Nathan Robinson:I don't know that that will happen because you keep the air conditioning so cold during day.
Jimbo Robinson:UX. Yes. No. I'm just talking about living in Memphis.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. I'll be going culture temperature shock here from the heat of Sparta to the inside of the Renaissance Convention Center where we're building igloos.
Jimbo Robinson:Yes. Yes. We're gonna talk about that too. But before we dive completely into this, we have a fun game we call the flock shot.
Nathan Robinson:The flock shot.
Jimbo Robinson:We call this spray and pray. K.
David Schuessler:No wrong answers.
Jimbo Robinson:No wrong answers.
David Schuessler:But you might be ridiculed for some of them.
Nathan Robinson:Bring it on. Coffee drinker or not? Not.
Jimbo Robinson:Yes. Do you have a morning drink?
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. I drink Mountain Ops Ignite. That's kinda been my What flavor? Everything. You know, it's funny you said pineapple because that's one of my favorite flavors right now, but they've got a lot of good ones.
Jimbo Robinson:Tiger's blood. Yeah. That's what I do every morning.
Nathan Robinson:That's more of like my fall thing. I'd rotate through season acratic. Yeah. So as a kid, we did a lot of road trips because we didn't live close to my grandparents, and I sat in the back of the minivan and got carsick off of the smell of my parents' coffee, and so I've been scarred for life. So never been a coffee drinker.
David Schuessler:It must not be. No. I'll buy it. It's a good story. I'll buy it.
Nathan Robinson:And I hate it. Like, there's been times where I've tried to become one because I feel like you gotta drink coffee if you're a man around the campfire. Right? But I just can't stand the taste of it. That bitterness doesn't do it for me.
Jimbo Robinson:I do drink it when it's really cold outside.
Nathan Robinson:Yep. It'd be nice in a tree stand or in a duck blind when you're cold.
Jimbo Robinson:But I put stuff in it so it doesn't really taste like coffee. Yeah. More like a milkshake. Yeah. That's what I'm going with today.
Jimbo Robinson:Alright. Favorite color Gatorade?
Nathan Robinson:Red.
David Schuessler:Flavor?
Nathan Robinson:I don't know what flavor that is. Is it fruit punch, I guess?
David Schuessler:It is. It is.
Nathan Robinson:What flavor?
David Schuessler:Nobody knows the flavor. They know the color.
Jimbo Robinson:They know the color. Yeah. What was your first gun?
Nathan Robinson:Browning b t 99 was probably my first one. My grandpa gave me that to shoot trap with. He was a big Browning gun fan or big Winchester ammo guy, so I inherited that from him.
David Schuessler:It's a pretty good mix.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. Absolutely.
David Schuessler:What's the
Nathan Robinson:double a t 99? It's a single barrel trap gun.
David Schuessler:Yeah. Single barrel trap gun.
Nathan Robinson:High rib. Good for shooting handicap or singles.
Jimbo Robinson:I knew it had to be in that in that realm because I've never heard of of that one.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah.
Jimbo Robinson:Your favorite ammo to shoot at ducks? And don't blow the rest of this podcast with your answer. Alright? Last year, what was your favorite ammo to shoot at ducks?
Nathan Robinson:I mean, my favorite? Oh, it's so tough because it's situational. Depends on where you're at, what time
Jimbo Robinson:of season.
Nathan Robinson:Here we go. And so, fortunately, we've got a product for every situation. I'd say my favorite was probably Last Call or Tungsten Load because you could shoot it in like a sub gauge, and I'm a really big fan of 28 gauge.
Jimbo Robinson:You were.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. I mean, I still can be for a little bit because I squirreled away a little bit, but, yeah, tungsten's gotten so ridiculous. We're gonna be going back to steel this year. Fortunately, we launched a new product last year that's really fun. It's a blended load we call Final Pass, and so that'll be the one of choice going forward until we get those tungsten and bismuth prices back down.
Jimbo Robinson:And we're gonna dive into that here in the podcast because I I guarantee you most listeners don't know that. Yeah. And so it'll be fun to talk about
Nathan Robinson:this year for sure.
Jimbo Robinson:And and and really to get people coming to DUX to come and talk to you all about it because it's a massive change. Yep. I believe so. What's your go to gas station snack?
Nathan Robinson:Man, I didn't know I was gonna get grilled with the hard questions here today. Probably sunflower seeds. Nice. That that's a good road trip one. Helps keep you awake and alert because you're chewing on something without filling up on sugar.
Jimbo Robinson:Wow. That was a good one. Wait. There's nothing to make fun of at least.
David Schuessler:Not with that. Alright. Rest of your life. You can only live with one of these K. For the rest of your life, TV, music, or books.
Nathan Robinson:You didn't have phone in there as a notion. That's good. And I gotta say books.
Jimbo Robinson:Oh. That's a curveball I didn't see coming.
Nathan Robinson:So I will say I spend more time watching video than I do reading, but I love to read. So having to pass on that for the rest of my life would be tough. I I feel like my IQ would probably drop without the occasional book in the mix. Alright. At one point, I wanted to be an author, and so I read a lot as a kid.
Nathan Robinson:And, you know, here later in life with kids and stuff, I've gotten away from it some, but I always hope to go back to it. So if I gotta decide for life, I think that's what I'm going for.
Jimbo Robinson:I guess my IQ was never hard because I never liked reading. I can only it doesn't have anywhere to
David Schuessler:go up. Favorite movie of all time? The suspense is killing us.
Nathan Robinson:There's so many strings attached to this decision. Everyone's gonna judge me. Oh, man.
David Schuessler:You can you've shot a lot of trap in your life, haven't you? Yes. I can tell.
Nathan Robinson:I don't even know that I really have a favorite movie. I get lost in whatever story I'm in in the moment, and in recent years, there's been a lot of animated and Disney because I've got kids, but, you know, I like them all. Alright. We were talking about Top Gun earlier. That's probably a top five.
David Schuessler:That's that's Jimbo's. That's mine.
Nathan Robinson:Twister was a good one, like, when I was in high school and that came out that I had to go see a couple times in theaters.
David Schuessler:Where'd you grow up? Illinois. Okay. I could see that. The the twister thing.
David Schuessler:Yeah. You've experienced
Nathan Robinson:it. Right.
Jimbo Robinson:Close calls.
David Schuessler:Alright. Here's an easier one. Favorite place to hunt waterfowl. We need the state and, like, the habitat, the setting.
Nathan Robinson:Can I have two?
David Schuessler:Sure. It's the last show of the of the season.
Nathan Robinson:Man, I love Saskatchewan. That's not a state, but,
David Schuessler:you know,
Nathan Robinson:Kansas City. That's When it comes to action and, you know, high limits, that's a lot of fun. I love to do that every year if I can. But from like a a romance and experience Mhmm. I like Illinois because that's what I grew up doing on my own in college is getting the public land, walk in areas, and not shooting very much, but just enjoying the newness of it and the adventure.
David Schuessler:Alright. Well, I'll dig in. Saskatchewan, I'm assuming dry field hunting. Yep. Alright.
David Schuessler:What crop?
Nathan Robinson:Some kind of peas.
David Schuessler:There you go. Yeah. They taste good when they're on peas.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. Okay.
Nathan Robinson:They like them.
David Schuessler:Now, this is the most important. This one generates the most conversation, I think, of any flock shot. What was your first car?
Nathan Robinson:Honda Prelude? I don't know that many people even know what that is.
David Schuessler:I do. And then would you like to have it back?
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. Okay. Without the rust and with AC and windshield wipers that worked. It had a lot of problems, but it was a fun car.
Jimbo Robinson:What is a Prelude?
Nathan Robinson:It's a really small two door that is really zippy because it's so small.
Jimbo Robinson:Did it have the auto seat belt?
Nathan Robinson:No. There's auto nothing except the headlights. They did pop up. Yeah. They had the eyeball headlights.
Jimbo Robinson:I wonder what year that automatic seat belt.
David Schuessler:You know, it didn't stick.
Jimbo Robinson:No. Pun pun intended. My mom my mom had a Saturn that had it, and I thought it was the coolest thing.
VO:Welcome to the Old Timer Minute, sponsored by Old Timer Knives.
Old Timer:So I had this this older gentleman, and he was good friends with my grandfather, and and one of the things he always talked about was was being ready, being ready when the ducks come in, working birds in, always staying hidden. And I think one of the things that that still resonates with me today is is when I'm working ducks, I love to call ducks. And so when you're working them in, but also being ready, being behind, being hidden, but not being so hidden that I can't take advantage of that situation and and actually get out and get a shot. And it's funny because I'll I'll see people go with us, they're they're really focused on hiding, and they're focused on on that part of it. But sometimes they're so focused on that.
Old Timer:They're a little slow to the the game. I think that's one thing that really resonates with me now, and it's kinda funny that that's the one thing that that pops out because I've had I got a thousand different stories like that. But right now in this moment, for some reason, that's the story I see my grandfather's best friend telling me, boy, be ready to shoot. That's your Old Timer Minute brought to you by Old Timer, built for generations.
VO:Visit the oldtimer.com.
David Schuessler:I remember my mom had a car. I think it was a z 200, or it was the first car that talked to you. That was the big deal. Fuel level is low. Right turn signal is on.
Nathan Robinson:The lady in my Toyota freaks me out sometimes. I'm driving along, and she'll just be like, to Illinois, or you are now entering Missouri. Every time I change states or there's fuel, she just starts talking.
Jimbo Robinson:Speaking of cars, have you heard the latest that people are up in arms about? I was looking up something on my truck last night, you know, the the car junkies were were having to pop up on my algorithm. I don't know why, but they're talking about charging for CarPlay. You have to have a subscription. Mhmm.
Jimbo Robinson:A monthly subscription.
David Schuessler:You know, it's like it's good. It's kinda good marketing and sales. Hook people and then charge them for it.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. Give it to them for, like, twenty years. Yeah. And then charge them for it anyway.
David Schuessler:Yeah. So what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?
Jimbo Robinson:I'm gonna get it. Alright.
Nathan Robinson:Yep. Well, you have
Jimbo Robinson:to because of maps. Right. I mean, I don't have Tom Tom talking to me anymore like I did when I first became an RD.
Nathan Robinson:Good old days.
Jimbo Robinson:Man, Tom Toms, you could just change them out in your cars. I've always said, every every time I go to rent a car and it asks me, do you want the GPS? I always wanna say yes just to see if they give you, like, a Tom Tom or a Garmin
David Schuessler:to stick on the dash.
Jimbo Robinson:A bag. Right?
David Schuessler:On a bag. Here you go.
Jimbo Robinson:Or do they just, like,
Nathan Robinson:cover having to just print out directions Oh, yeah. When I went on trips.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. When I've in college, I had to you would go to MapQuest, type in the address, and print it.
Chris Isaac:Yeah.
Jimbo Robinson:And that wasn't dangerous. Riding down the road trying to read where
David Schuessler:Before that, you had to have four or five gazetteers under your front seat. Atlas. I'm that old.
Jimbo Robinson:Road Atlas? Yeah. And then the city would pop up, and you'd have to, like they would zoom in on the big cities.
David Schuessler:Yeah. But if you got lost, you had to pull out your gazetteer because there was you weren't printing out anything.
Jimbo Robinson:Walker's wondering what a gazetteer is. It was a
David Schuessler:a book. You bought it by the state, and it was plot maps of basically the entire state. So you kinda had to know where you were, and then if you wanted to check something out, you opened it up. That's how
Nathan Robinson:Every time I clean out my car, I debate on whether I should throw that away or keep it, and I'm just always thinking what if cell
Jimbo Robinson:phone What if?
David Schuessler:That's right. Like What if?
Nathan Robinson:So You have
Jimbo Robinson:one in your car still?
Nathan Robinson:I've it's not a full blown book. It's just a fold out map.
Jimbo Robinson:Of the whole country?
Nathan Robinson:No. Illinois. Just Illinois. Yeah. Interesting.
Nathan Robinson:The Saint Louis area too.
Jimbo Robinson:So that is not in my box, but that's Your memory bank? I'm I'm pretty sure.
David Schuessler:You were close. I'm telling you. You were close. You were close to it. It wasn't that long ago.
Jimbo Robinson:No. No. No. No. I remember I had we had a road I had a road atlas that had all 50 states in it.
Jimbo Robinson:Because of just from traveling from South Carolina to Tennessee and and my dad being my dad, he had he had three routes highlighted from where I went to college and my hometown or where I lived then to Memphis and Nashville, because he lived in Nashville, but then I'd meet him in Memphis. And I had routes, and then he had a couple of, like, hey, if traffic is bad, you can go this. But at that time, traveling from South Carolina to to Memphis, Birmingham was not Birmingham of today. You'd have to get off in Birmingham, then you'd take a two lane road for, like, forty five minutes, and then you'd get on 22 past Jasper. And people don't understand that the road that Jimbo, it
David Schuessler:was that way ten years ago.
Jimbo Robinson:They just got that, well, I can still sound like I'm kind
David Schuessler:of old for a minute.
Jimbo Robinson:You know? I mean but it you're right. But it's crazy to think that that road, like, it literally ended in Birmingham. Mhmm. And then there was no interstate coming this way.
Jimbo Robinson:And I get I don't even know that on some maps, it's fully changed to 22. I mean, I still consider it
Chris Isaac:78.
David Schuessler:22, 78, 69. It's called all three of them. Yeah. So it's kinda
Nathan Robinson:My map's so old. It's probably worthless at this point just from roads changing.
Jimbo Robinson:Right. Right. Alright. Let's dive in. Ducks Winchester.
Nathan Robinson:So Yeah. Speaking of changing times I don't know. Just needed to transition, I felt like.
Jimbo Robinson:Speaking of changing times, a lot has changed in the world of Winchester in the last year.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. I'd say in the ammunition space, not necessarily a lot of change in Winchester. It's just the world has changed with sourcing a lot of materials. Costs have gone up, tariffs have hit, there's been a lot of changes in supply and demand, and that affects our ability to purchase and then what prices we have to pass along to consumers.
Jimbo Robinson:So sixteen, fourteen, maybe less than that, fourteen, sixteen months ago. I don't know. Was it the fall? Yeah. It was Yeah.
Jimbo Robinson:Probably. It was after d u x. Was, February after d u x, I guess.
Nathan Robinson:Late last year.
Jimbo Robinson:Because y'all because we're about we were talking about dove hunting
Nathan Robinson:That's
Jimbo Robinson:right. With John Gordon. Rest in peace. But but the guy that was sitting right here, I can't remember his name, Jason. Jimmy.
Jimbo Robinson:It's close. I mean, we were cutting shells open talking about tungsten and the blends and all that, and and here we are eleven months later.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. And had no reason to expect it at that point. Things had changed pretty quick.
Jimbo Robinson:Tungsten was not. Bismuth, we knew bismuth was was getting more expensive, but tungsten was gonna save the day. Yep. Why do you think and then we talked about this a little bit, but what do you think's caused the the tungsten
Nathan Robinson:price hike? The main thing is just demand. So it's used for a lot of things outside of turkey and waterfowl. As hunters, that's what we think of it as, is just associated with TSS, but it's used for a lot of military weapons and munitions, and there's industrial uses for it. And so as those ramped up, they took away a lot of supply.
David Schuessler:We were last in line Yep. For it.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. And you can still get it. It's just a matter of if you wanna pay that much for it. If you're willing to spend 20 to $30 a shot, then it might still be something you can take to the blind.
David Schuessler:That's a little bit out of the
Jimbo Robinson:You got five shells. It's a $150 a shell a case or
Nathan Robinson:A box?
Jimbo Robinson:A a pack. It's like a pack of gum.
David Schuessler:Yep. Five of them.
Jimbo Robinson:$150. $30 shell.
David Schuessler:Maybe maybe turkey hunting?
Nathan Robinson:Damn. That's thing we're talking about. I probably would steal for turkey hunting, but it it's getting to be a harder sell. So until that changes
David Schuessler:It's an expensive patterning session.
Nathan Robinson:That's right. I've gone through dozens of shells before patterning and setting up optics and stuff.
Jimbo Robinson:It's one. 12 inches high. Gotta shoot low today. Yeah.
Nathan Robinson:But, know, hopefully, is a temporary thing, and we benefit from having a really deep portfolio of products. And so there's plenty of great options out there for people, and you can just turn to one of the steel loads. We've got Expert and Drylok and Final Pass ready to go.
Jimbo Robinson:And that's what I was about to say, like, you know, the one thing y'all haven't done, and we talked about this last time, was y'all haven't gotten away from what got you to the dance.
Nathan Robinson:Yep. And that's always been where the volume is. I mean, there's fun new technologies that we get into, and obviously, if you can afford to buy them, you do. But most people are using steel day in and day out, unless they've got some really special travel hunt they're going on, then they might buy a few boxes of something else.
Jimbo Robinson:What's the booth at DUX gonna look like this year?
Nathan Robinson:It's gonna be exciting. We've got a bunch of ammo displays showing off both waterfowl products and the rest of the line. Obviously, we do Target. We do big game, Upland. We've got something for everybody there, and we'd recognize these people.
Nathan Robinson:They love ducks, but they probably spend some time in the Deer Woods too. So we wanna show off the products there. We've got some gear that we're gonna be selling. We've got a new licensee that is gonna have a little space to show off the Winchester bourbon. We've also got a game for kids to come and play, get to throw stress balls at ducks and try to win surprises.
Nathan Robinson:So there's a bunch going on.
Jimbo Robinson:Are you selling sweatshirts again?
Nathan Robinson:I actually hadn't thought about it until we were at lunch today and figured I need to see if I can add that to the order still.
Jimbo Robinson:Because I think y'all sold Yeah. Lunch last
Nathan Robinson:Last year, there's all these people shivering as they walked by and we talked them into buying some sweatshirts.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. I don't know who would
Nathan Robinson:Appreciate the help on that.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. I don't
David Schuessler:It's all Jimbo. He walked he walked up to that lady and said, make it snow.
Jimbo Robinson:It was close.
David Schuessler:And if we had any anybody spraying water in there, we'd had snow.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. We talked to I mean, it's a it's a lifestyle show.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. I mean, despite it being a little chilly, it was an
Jimbo Robinson:awesome moment. Not chilly. I've said this numerous times. For the only people, the ones that were complaining were the ones that either stuck in their booth
Nathan Robinson:Yeah.
Jimbo Robinson:All day long or, you know, couldn't find anything else to complain about. So that that's that's literally the only complaint we
Nathan Robinson:got. That's awesome.
Jimbo Robinson:Was But we've had well,
Nathan Robinson:we're gonna complain about something. At least you gave them one that is not a big deal.
David Schuessler:Fixable. But we have a lot of people saying, please do that again this year.
Jimbo Robinson:Yes.
David Schuessler:Now most of them sell hoodies and
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. Boots. Next year, think we're just gonna put it on the website. Like, indoor temperature is less than 50 degrees. You know, dress accordingly.
David Schuessler:Dress warm.
Jimbo Robinson:You'll have to, like, bring a backpack of of clothes with you because You're
David Schuessler:a duck hunter. Dress warm. You have it in the closet.
Nathan Robinson:That's not gonna keep anybody away. Everybody's still gonna be there to participate in the event, whether it's hot or cold.
Jimbo Robinson:So y'all have traveled around recently at different, you know, shows, and has have you heard people talking about it?
Nathan Robinson:Ducks? Yeah. I mean, it's been all over social media on my feed for sure. A lot of different companies putting out their promotional videos and you guys putting out the podcast. So there's a lot of interest I think building, and it's that time of year where people are thinking about the duck season and wanting to, you know, clean off the shotguns and buy some duck loads and get their gear figured out, so it's the right time.
David Schuessler:You know, was interesting, Jimbo, I don't know if you even saw this, but Alex White, who does all of our social media and logistics for the show, showed me a chart today that on when was July 4? A Saturday? Yes. July 6, our views quadrupled on that. And we and we did not run a special promotion.
David Schuessler:It was it was like July 6 is I'm gonna start looking at hunting stuff now.
Jimbo Robinson:Oh, it's mine. It's coming. I don't think about hunting. I mean, I think about hunting all the time. We we talk about it, but it doesn't it doesn't like, I don't start planning anything or really dialing the calendar until after July 4.
Jimbo Robinson:Yep. And and I think this is perfect. Till August. Yeah. Because now everything from July that time until next Monday, two weeks from a week from this upcoming Monday, I mean, it's all the show.
Jimbo Robinson:And it's exciting because it's kinda like that's our that's my kickoff. Yep. Good to see all the new things that everybody has and and and what they have to offer.
Nathan Robinson:What do we have? A 115 heat index outside right now? I think people are starting to daydream about those cool mornings.
Jimbo Robinson:It's gonna be one nineteen. According to channel news channel three this morning, it is going to be one nineteen at 04:00 today, feels like. And that and and it's crazy because last summer, and we've talked about this, last summer, it did not get hot hot. Like, we had some one tens late in the year, dry one tens. Mhmm.
Jimbo Robinson:But this, the heat we've had the last two weeks, it's so thick, like, birds aren't flying. I mean, I don't I'm serious.
David Schuessler:Yeah. It's been
Jimbo Robinson:Mosquitoes haven't been that bad in the backyard. They can't they can't get up in this air. I don't know what's
David Schuessler:going on.
Nathan Robinson:They can fly on.
Jimbo Robinson:I would I mean, it is crazy.
David Schuessler:Matt, what what's corn sweat? I keep hearing everybody in the Midwest talk about their humidity from the corn sweating. Is that a real deal?
Nathan Robinson:You know, that's not something I've heard before, but I can maybe guess. I mean, there's a lot of moisture in those kernels at first. Maybe it's getting baked off and it's creating more humidity.
David Schuessler:I I keep hearing people talk about it.
Nathan Robinson:The husks gotta
David Schuessler:start drying. Hot. We got corn sweat. Okay.
Jimbo Robinson:It's just hot here because it's raining and there's asphalt everywhere, I guess. I don't know. It's crazy. But what what so what is gonna what is Winchester, like, in the summertime? Obviously, y'all probably planning this in earlier in the year, but what's the focus gonna be, you think, in technology for the for the short term?
Nathan Robinson:Well, like I said, we're fortunate we just introduced a brand new steel load last year. So Final Pass is kind of our flagship that we're gonna be talking about this year because it's the new one. It's exciting. It's a blended load, and you can get that in offerings that are for geese and your big ducks all the way down to teal with 20 gauge and, you know, some of the smaller shotshells That
Jimbo Robinson:is a two and four.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. So a two and a half. Two and half. It's kind of an interesting mix. We wanted to differentiate it from some of the other stuff out there.
Nathan Robinson:So we have some people who like twos, some people that like threes. We just split the difference, and we've got two and a halfs and fours, and then we've got one and a halfs and BBs for your geese.
Jimbo Robinson:We shot one and a of BBs at geese last year. Yep.
David Schuessler:So how does that product differ from DRILOCK?
Nathan Robinson:So a lot of the components are the same. It's kind of like DRILOCK two point o or DRILOCK blend, you could almost call it.
David Schuessler:Okay. So it's like a blended DRILOCK then. Right.
Jimbo Robinson:Okay. So
Nathan Robinson:dry lock is, you know, an awesome system that keeps moisture out of your shotshells so you get reliable firing. Even if you drop it in the water or it ends up in the bottom of the boat and gets wet, all those same seals and components are available in Final Pass. The difference is the shot and having those two shot sizes blended together, so you get some of the performance benefits of both.
Jimbo Robinson:Got it.
Nathan Robinson:So the idea being the smaller shot size helps give you a more full denser pattern, but you've still got some bigger pellets in there if you need that energy at a little longer distance. Yep. It's a good compromise load, so it's ready to go for any situation.
Jimbo Robinson:Speaking of longer distance, have you seen what came out or what's been kinda kicked around the Internet a little bit, but the guy that made the 180 yard no. No.
Nathan Robinson:It have been 200.
Jimbo Robinson:200 yard shot. With what? A shotgun.
Nathan Robinson:On a clay target.
Jimbo Robinson:You are giving me that look. We're talking these guys, I mean, they're gonna back this up. I was just thinking that's a long way.
Nathan Robinson:I mean, you don't do that normally at the
David Schuessler:I sporting clubs? Oh,
Jimbo Robinson:gosh. No.
David Schuessler:No. Well, I mean so give me some context.
Jimbo Robinson:He's a professional shooter.
David Schuessler:He would what was his joke? Do we know?
Jimbo Robinson:I mean, it had to be like a
David Schuessler:Super full turkey?
Nathan Robinson:I'm guessing it didn't happen
David Schuessler:on his first Super Big block too. Number nines? What was it? What do you I I haven't even looked at it yet. I mean, anything's possible when
Jimbo Robinson:you throw enough lead at it, So it'd
Nathan Robinson:be fun to try to replicate.
Jimbo Robinson:But it was high and and
Nathan Robinson:Impressive for sure. Like, Gould. He's a a great shooter, a great entertainer.
David Schuessler:It was a world record. So they were trying to do it. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yep.
David Schuessler:I was picturing some dude just
Nathan Robinson:would you not recommend that?
David Schuessler:Station number four. Don't
Nathan Robinson:try that
David Schuessler:out of the duck blind. But you but there is some talk talking about don't try that. There is some talk of and not really from a I don't think from a a waterfowl load perspective, but more from firearm technology of are we overpromoting distant shooting for the average hunter? And
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. Skill is a major component Right. That you can't take into account unless you know the shooter. So there's definitely some pieces of that. We just introduced a new rifle round called supreme long range, and that bullet expands at a thousand yards.
Nathan Robinson:But we're not telling people to shoot an animal at a thousand yards because Yeah. Most people are not able to reliably hit a target that far, so they have no business shooting at that distance. But if you are cross canyon and you've been practicing all summer and you're good to five, six hundred yards, then that might be an ethical shot if you got a good stable platform and the animal's relaxed and
David Schuessler:and still responsible marketing. Right. Right? To to There's a lot
Nathan Robinson:of pieces you gotta take into account to decide where that ethical limit is, and it changes every day because of weather conditions and the the shooter and the game.
Jimbo Robinson:And where you are Yeah.
Nathan Robinson:Has a lot
Jimbo Robinson:to do with it. Do you notice he said Canyon to our listeners out there? Canyon, not Bus, Tennessee. Yeah. I mean, five,
Nathan Robinson:six hundred yards.
Jimbo Robinson:That's like five farms.
David Schuessler:Right.
Jimbo Robinson:Could be.
VO:Right.
Jimbo Robinson:That's crazy to think that somebody could take a, you know, a five or 600 yard shot.
VO:Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey after these messages.
David Schuessler:What has kept the double a's as the standard for all these years?
Nathan Robinson:I think it's just that there's that premium performance. Like, we set the bar high when we had, you know, our high antimony shot and those premium components and our double a hinged wad, and there's not any change needed to perfection. It's just been that industry standard of this is what you get if you want the best. And we did step it up a couple years ago because we wanted to say unequivocally we had the best available, and that was double a diamond grade.
Jimbo Robinson:Yep.
Nathan Robinson:So that is even higher antimony, and it's plated, and it's, you know, it's the Cadillac of target loads, and it's not necessary for most people. But if you want the best of the best and you're willing to pay a little extra for it, we've got, you know, something for everybody. So you got diamond grade. Nobody has anything better, but it's gonna be 150 plus dollars a case. Mhmm.
Nathan Robinson:And then double a's is what most competitive shooters are using at a high level. That's what all your world champions are shooting is mostly the standard double a's. And then we got super target for people who are new to shooting or their skill level doesn't require that they have the best. Like, usually people are shooting the ammo can outperform their skill level is probably the way to say that. So if it's just a recreational guy and he doesn't wanna spend as much, super target's a great option.
Jimbo Robinson:Interesting.
Nathan Robinson:And what you're giving up there is the shot isn't quite as hard, so it might deform a little bit and it's gonna open your pattern slightly faster. I miss some. And it's not reloadable holes.
David Schuessler:Every shot.
Nathan Robinson:Reloadability used to be a really big thing. We were talking about that earlier about kids collecting holes, and my grandpa reloaded, and that's why he was a double a fan, is because he could get six to 10 reloads
David Schuessler:It out of is the best hole to reload into. My father-in-law Mhmm. Big time reloader, and when he was shooting a whole bunch, and he was a captain in the army. When he came out of medical school, he did his tour, and so he could, I guess, order people around. Well, all they shot is double a's at the range, and he would say, go down and pick them up.
David Schuessler:Bring them And so even when I met him much later in his life, he just had trash bags of once used double a's. Yep. They're all coming to me a trap shooter.
Nathan Robinson:That's right.
David Schuessler:And and we did. We we would reload them and shoot them and shoot them and shoot them, and he would shoot them, and it would take six, eight, 10 times until the you know, you just crimped it so many times. Right. Just okay. This one's done.
David Schuessler:You're starting to you're starting to see shot in it. We we can throw this one away after the next time.
Jimbo Robinson:Do you think that sub gauges will fall off a little bit in popularity?
Nathan Robinson:I'm still gonna hunt with mine. So I think there's a lot of people who love the sub gauges enough that they'll just limit their shots a little bit if they can't buy the tungsten and they're using steel. But I think they're gonna turn to the 12 gauge or 20 gauge more too. So I think it'll be a combination. Yeah.
Nathan Robinson:Mean Just depending
Jimbo Robinson:on time
Nathan Robinson:of the season and the setup and
Jimbo Robinson:Right. Everybody talks about a 20 gauge as a sub gauge, but I mean, there's a lot of people that that shoot 20 gauges, but I just think the whole talk was that, you know, a lot of people shooting old guns with the bismuth. Yep.
Nathan Robinson:Right? Yep.
Jimbo Robinson:And that will they will not be able to do that as frequently as they have.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. And we see trends come and go all the time. I don't think this is something for people to lose a lot of sleep over. Everybody's got a 12 gauge ready to go at home. Just if you don't have access to the ammo you wanted for your four ten, you leave it home for now and use a 12 gauge and get to relive some of those days that, you know, we grew up hunting with just steel.
Nathan Robinson:The components have been just a very short term. It's only been around for the last three to five years in a high level.
Jimbo Robinson:I I think that and and when I talk about sub gauges that way, like, it should been more of youth and kids being able to shoot and find good shells for them to shoot. So they'll go back to all steel.
Nathan Robinson:I honestly, the more people I've been seeing use it more is the duck club guys that have a lot of money and wanna use a different gun, It's a perfect excuse to buy a new gun and have fun with something, and we absolutely encourage that. And it probably won't hurt them too bad to pay a little bit more, you know, find an excuse to buy one of the new 12 gauges.
David Schuessler:Or or their hunting conditions allow for it. Yep. Yeah. You know, the four ten hole. Right?
David Schuessler:Because they're just if they come, they're right in your face. But Jimbo and where we hunt, you know, and and given some of the fields are gonna be long shots, especially later in the season, and and there will be a specklebelly goose component to it. Like, if I see a guy pull out a four ten, no, we're not doing that. Like, it'll like, we we could you can do it, but I'm gonna tell you when to take the shot.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. Four ten
David Schuessler:and twenty eight. Four ten and twenty eights are tough in a Yep. Rice field pit. But inside the timber, cool.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. I mean, if you remember back not long ago, 10 gauges were pretty standard for goose hunters. And so going back to a 12 or 20 isn't that big of a deal. Recoil is still manageable, especially with steel loads, there's a lot of good options out there, and it won't break the bank.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. My son
Nathan Robinson:I think it's good news for us.
Jimbo Robinson:My father-in-law and I I think this was by accident. My father-in-law gave my son a 28 gauge two years ago that he had in the closet and thought, oh, you know, trips he getting older. He needs a over and under 28 gauge. Well, as soon as he got it, I looked at him. Was like, thanks.
Jimbo Robinson:Now I gotta buy ammo. And we still have a few 28 gauge bullets left. We don't really hunt anymore in places that we can shoot it. It was great in this old swamp we had, but, yeah, I don't that won't be coming out for a while. Yeah.
Jimbo Robinson:Because I don't think the ammo it's not You're gonna
David Schuessler:get me on my soapbox. I know. You're gonna get me on my soapbox.
Jimbo Robinson:We're not gonna because I don't think people are gonna focus. I don't think ammo companies, y'all aren't gonna focus on 28 gauge in some of these all steel loads, will you?
Nathan Robinson:I mean, right now, it's not something that we're looking at. Think we've got so many good offerings that we're just gonna focus on what we've been doing and keep that available. And if there's a trend that we see of people moving towards that, then we'll make it available for sure. Because we do have some in the lineup already, but it's not something that we produce much of.
David Schuessler:Right. Well, it comes down demand. Oh, absolutely.
Nathan Robinson:Where I've actually used 28 gauge steel is for pheasant hunting in waterfowl areas. So like I said, we've had it for years, and if people want to keep using their 20 eights, they can grab some expert. Keep going. Just won't be able to shoot quite as far.
Jimbo Robinson:The the looming question in the dove world is do you think they're ever gonna go to all steel?
Nathan Robinson:I try not to be a soothsayer on that kind of stuff. I don't mean, I just you hear about all that the are, and so, like, our policy is if there's a need for something, we make it, and we have cool steel loads that are available like fast steel, and we've got stuff that's still made out of lead too, and whatever people need for their area, we've got them covered. Interesting. What
Jimbo Robinson:any other besides the Supreme, is there anything in the big game world that technology wise that's changed?
Nathan Robinson:So we've got a new product, the six eight Western The what? The six eight Western cartridge we introduced a couple years ago, and now there's a deer season bullet available for that. And so we've got something like six or eight different options. There's a bonded bullet. There's a copper bullet.
Nathan Robinson:There's a traditional soft lead. We've got a bliss silver tip, and there's now deer season version, which is our really large open or hollow point. It's got a polymer tip on the front of it, and that'll be great for anybody that's shooting inside a, you know, two, four hundred yards. And then if you're gonna be shooting beyond that, we'd probably recommend you step up to supreme just because you get optimal expansion at lower velocities. But, yeah, we've got something for all conditions.
Nathan Robinson:If you're gonna be here in Tennessee, you're shooting inside 200 yards, deer season would be the one I'd recommend. If you're going out west after a moose, then go with something like bonded or copper. And if you're gonna be shooting cross canyon or out on the plains for mule deer up to elk, then supreme long range is a great option.
Jimbo Robinson:Did you ever think we'd have this many options of calibers in the rifle world?
Nathan Robinson:Man, every day it seems like there's a new one. And it's good because we drive a lot of innovation ourselves. We wanna push the limits and make the best of the best. But as a manufacturer, all the time you have to take to shut down a machine and retool it for the next one causes more downtime, and so we try to be cognizant of being as efficient as possible too because that keeps the cost down for people. So we may not load every caliber real frequently, but we try to, you know, get it in the cycle every year and then dump a bunch of product out to our distributors and retailers and then make it available for the seasons.
Jimbo Robinson:The six and a half Creedmoor, is that is that still a big is that still one of those hottest selling?
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. It's definitely up there in top 10.
Jimbo Robinson:Interesting.
Nathan Robinson:And it's hard to argue with. It's soft recoiling. It's inherently accurate. It's fun to shoot. So that's a good one.
Nathan Robinson:It's not everything for everybody because the bullet weights aren't very high. So if you're gonna be shooting big game, I prefer stepping up in bullet weight and having a little bit more energy, but six and a half is great. Crazy. Six eight is nice because it's that compromise where it's big enough to handle the biggest game, but it's also not overkill if you're gonna take it on a white tail hunt. And so that's really my go to.
Nathan Robinson:If somebody's wanting like the optimal one rifle to do it all, it's a short action, which means the bolt doesn't go back real far, and it is designed similar to the ballistics of a 6.5 where it's high BC, heavy bullet weights, bucks the wind well, just aerodynamically performs really well, and you can get bullets, you know, up to a 175, a 180 grains. So if you're shooting something big, you can step up the bullet choice for it.
David Schuessler:Out of our world, Jimbo.
Jimbo Robinson:So this is Yeah. My dad
David Schuessler:We we shoot about a 100 yards out of a box.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. Two forty three, two seventy, it's about most we carry, but my dad recently was my dad just retired, and, you know, to my dad, the 30 ot six is the do all.
David Schuessler:Well, it is.
Jimbo Robinson:To to you know, to his generation, like, that was the gun. And so he was I don't know what he was reading recently, but he was like, hey, Bo. Did you know that there's, like, 19 different calibers that people are shooting deer with now? And I'm like, yeah, dad. That's been going on for a while.
Jimbo Robinson:And he's like, what happened to the 30 ot six? They still make it? Like, yes. They make it. But it's crazy because, I mean, he just hasn't, you know, lived in that world in a long time, and and Yeah.
Jimbo Robinson:It's crazy how it's changed.
Nathan Robinson:And 30 out six still works just fine.
Jimbo Robinson:And he's got the same one I think that he shot his first deer with in probably in high school and
David Schuessler:Yep.
Jimbo Robinson:So it kicks like a mule.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. And it it's not as flat shooting, so you have to adjust your holdover quite a bit more than you would with some of the more modern cartridges, but it definitely does the job.
David Schuessler:It's a country store caliber. Yeah. You can That's what we call it. Yeah. Easy to find.
Nathan Robinson:When we're when we're looking
David Schuessler:at the rifle of the year, we've been tricked a couple of times. I shouldn't say tricked. We've talked ourselves into some of the newer calibers, and kind of our rule of thumb is if you can get the shells at a country store, that's gonna hit everybody across the
Nathan Robinson:Yep.
David Schuessler:The spectrum there.
Jimbo Robinson:So I don't know if we can talk about this much because it hasn't come out, but there is word that there's gonna be an awesome DU ninetieth anniversary kind of theme to something coming on in Winchester. Can we are we allowed to talk about that at all?
Nathan Robinson:I would just say that we've got an exciting anniversary next year, and Winchester is gonna be celebrating alongside DU and might be some collectible stuff as part of that.
David Schuessler:Less than six months away.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. It's crazy to think about it.
Nathan Robinson:We're almost there.
Jimbo Robinson:And y'all have done I mean,
Nathan Robinson:you showed us that February two fiftieth. It's always fun to try to find things like that to mix up our product line. So this year, $2.50 was a big deal for The US, and we did a line of nine different products where we just changed the packaging on high moving products. So you got rimfire, nine millimeter, shotshell stuff that we move, a ton of product, and we just put commemorative packaging on it to kinda help celebrate. But then we also did a five box set that has a theme of different ways that Winchester's been a part of that two hundred and fifty year history.
Nathan Robinson:So pioneering, the American hunter, wreck shooting, conservation, the military, and so there's artwork, you know, historic artwork on the front of the box, and then we've got some cool language inside. It's a nice corrugate collectible box that you can put on the shelf and, you know, have some cool memories with and be a collectible boy.
Jimbo Robinson:Anytime you have King Buck on something, it's it's collectible and
Nathan Robinson:leave him off. That's for sure. So he's on the conservation box.
David Schuessler:Great story with a great connection.
Jimbo Robinson:Absolutely. The only federal duck stamp with a dog on it. Do know that? Mhmm.
David Schuessler:Well, from Nilo Farms. Nilo spelled backwards is Olin. Olin. Yep. There's your connection.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. Is there anybody to challenge him as the most famous lab? It's the first one that comes to mind for me.
David Schuessler:That's a great question.
Jimbo Robinson:I don't
Nathan Robinson:know how biased I am, but
David Schuessler:no. Not from a
Jimbo Robinson:generational standpoint. There's some dogs out there, Zeus comes to my mind, but there are some very famous dogs that the lineage in the hunting world may be popular, but as far as a influencer in today's terminology, no.
David Schuessler:Absolutely. But nobody's putting Zeus on the front of their No. Their Land Rover as a front plate. Yeah. Right.
David Schuessler:You see that. People do that ducks down.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. Absolutely.
Nathan Robinson:Well, and it's such a classic story too because he went from almost dying of parvo, being nursed back to health, and then becoming one of, if not the most winning dogs of all times in AKC trials. Two time national champion and the only dog ever to be on a duck stamp.
Jimbo Robinson:How did he get all the duck stamp?
David Schuessler:Actually, the only dog featured on a duck stamp. As the main feature? As the main feature. Because recently, when there was a short period where you had to have a hunting component Yeah. To the duck stamp, there was at least one where there was a dog retrieving in the background.
David Schuessler:And so that kinda broke the streak. Yeah. We can we can look at those when we're walking out.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. Yeah. Show me.
Jimbo Robinson:But as the main feature.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. And it's the only duck stand that has a dead duck Yep. Pictured as And the reason being was they wanted to recognize the role of the retriever as a conservation tool. And so they weren't celebrating the death of the duck. They were celebrating the fact that a good retriever keeps you from wounding and losing ducks, and make sure that you retrieve all your ducks that have been shot, and it's an important piece to, you know, us being ethical conservation focused hunters.
David Schuessler:We actually received three or four years ago out of an estate, the artist that did that had recolorized one for a family friend that was a it turned it into a chocolate. It was a one of a kind piece of art, and the artist had the right to do it because he retained the, you know, the right to do so. And it was called Spud. That's what that they called it and and it was he did the family dog as a chocolate and changed the colorization yeah, of the it was pretty cool.
Nathan Robinson:And back to the history of that, I think the reason why it was King Buck was because John Olin was so instrumental in conservation at the time. He was president of SAMHY that was driving a lot of initial conservation funding when groups like DU hadn't even taken root yet. So we're going back a long ways when Americans were starting to figure out that, hey, this is a resource that we're gonna lose if we're not careful, and he was one of the forefathers that started us down this path, and then groups like DU and Pheasants Forever and everybody has carried so well since.
Jimbo Robinson:Why do you think Winchester as a whole has always when you think of legacy brands, I mean, like, think of the the logo that's still very old school looking, why do you think what in in today's world, it's easy to pivot and say, let's let's rebrand. Let's let's update everything. Why do you think Winchester's been able to hold on to that stronghold for so long and just keep on the straight and narrow?
Nathan Robinson:So a hundred and sixty years this year, so we're no spring chicken anymore. It has been a long time. And I think a big part of it is it's just so integral to American identity. You've got the Wild West, the cowboy riding a horse and, you know, carrying his thirty thirty. That's just such a key point in our history and our identity as Americans that I think people still like to, you know, claim that even though they've probably never ridden a horse or may not have shot a thirty thirty.
Nathan Robinson:It's just part of like our identity that, you know, we've got grit and we're out there to, you know, make a living in a new world, and Winchester is a part of that. And the key I think is that we haven't just rested on our laurels either, and we've continued to innovate. And so we're both. I mean, we very much celebrate that history and what Winchester has been for a hundred and sixty years, but we're at the forefront of developing new technology every year and putting out new products that, you know, offer more value and features to our consumers. And so you have to do both to stay relevant because if we were just, you know, grandpa's ammo, people would have forgotten us by now.
Nathan Robinson:So it's a balance.
David Schuessler:Yeah. I'd I'd add to it the quality. I mean, we talked about it earlier with the double what is it? One misfire every 100,000 or some crazy number like that. And it's just I mean, if you think of you I can't think back to any and I've shot a lot and still do shoot a lot of Winchester ammo, and it just it never fails.
David Schuessler:It just it just doesn't fail. It does what it's supposed to do when you pull the trigger. And, yes, there's differences between expert and dry lock, and and that's just all part of
Jimbo Robinson:Don't tell my dad that.
David Schuessler:Just part of category management. Well, he said it. Expert doesn't shoot quite as far. You said it just a minute ago. Right?
Nathan Robinson:We're talking about super target. Yeah. So on the Target load side, it's softer. Expert's similar on the Duck load side. It's not as premium of a shot for dry lock and for final pass.
Nathan Robinson:We're using polished jewelry grade. Sure. Mean, it's round and shiny, where expert is not quite
David Schuessler:as Right. It's a little as uniform. Right. But Yep. You come out and say that.
David Schuessler:It's it's category management.
Chris Isaac:I mean
David Schuessler:But it still does what it's supposed to do when
Nathan Robinson:you pull
David Schuessler:the trigger.
Jimbo Robinson:Oh, that and that's my dial tone is the best shooting thing ever made.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. A lot of people prefer
Jimbo Robinson:For the half inch number twos.
David Schuessler:What gun does your dad shoot? Super black Eagle one. What's his choke?
Jimbo Robinson:He can't get it out. But it is a I think he has gotten it out recently,
Nathan Robinson:but I see.
Jimbo Robinson:It's a it's still it's a Pattern Master, and it it's ported.
David Schuessler:I had a eight still have the gun. Eight seventy with a modified joke when I lived and I used it when I lived in Texas all the time. Nothing patterned better than expert. Yep. I mean Period.
David Schuessler:End of story. That's what I was gonna shoot. And nothing patterned like it it would out of that particular fire arm.
Jimbo Robinson:My brother will tell you that it's just the only thing that gun knows, and so Same thing. It's it's worn its grooves in that barrel. That's what my
Nathan Robinson:brother will tell you.
Jimbo Robinson:It's patterned great in that thing because that's the only thing that gun has ever shot.
David Schuessler:Speaking of patterning, let's let's talk about this for a minute because it wasn't until one of my sons started shooting competitive trap in high school, which is a really big sport here in Memphis. Yeah. Like, the schools have to cut. There's so many kids that wanna go out.
Jimbo Robinson:Did Private just schools. That's the
Nathan Robinson:spent a week at the SETP Nationals in Ohio. We had 3,000 kids there.
David Schuessler:Yeah. It's
Jimbo Robinson:wild. Yeah. He asked about trap team. He saw our trap stuff that we were talking about at lunch. Yeah.
David Schuessler:So I didn't realize I mean, shot my first duck at the age of five. But then as he got into that, and, okay, you need a trap gun, and all we went through that, and I said, you know what? We're gonna go shoot the board. I'd never really done it for clay shooting. You know, you pattern a gun for turkey hunting and stuff like that.
David Schuessler:I don't think most people understand that for the everyday duck hunter, dove hunter, whatever, how important patterning is and what you learn from doing that. Most people just, here's my gun. I'm gonna I'm gonna put a choke in it, and if it's a a far shot, I'm, you know, gonna put in a modern, improved mod, a short dumbbell go, I see if we're hunting in the woods today. Man, that patterning is so important. I learned so much.
Nathan Robinson:Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up because most people don't think to do that for bird hunting unless it's turkey, but you do learn quite a bit about the way your gun shoots and what your ethical shooting distance probably should be. What's even better is if you watch videos that show shot string, that's really interesting to see it in a three-dimensional way and how the shot is stretched out some, and you can understand how a bird's flying through that pattern. It's Right. Not one dimensional.
Nathan Robinson:It's just a long string of a pattern.
David Schuessler:It also explains how did I miss that duck. Yeah. Because sometimes they just get lucky. Yeah. Like, you're all over it, and sometimes guns matrix do that thing and get through it.
Nathan Robinson:Guns do not shoot the same, so you really ought to learn your equipment if you're gonna be proficient with it.
David Schuessler:Yep. It makes a big deal.
Nathan Robinson:And And that was not the same either. So just because you've shot your gun and let's say you've been using expert your whole life, and then you decide you wanna try dry lock, you should get out and shoot a board and see how it patterns.
David Schuessler:One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was going to Canada when a a new load came out. It was not a Winchester load, but a new load came out, and you're allowed to take five boxes. I bought five boxes, and the first day, it was like, what is going on? And we went and shot a board. I was with Joe Rowan, who was mister dry lock till the day he dies.
David Schuessler:And Joe had a little camp up there, and he said, you're very lucky because I have leftover dry lock from the past eight years that I've been coming up here, and let's go get you some dry lock, and because I know you can shoot that. And I should have patterned that I should have patterned it before I went or just put some dry lock in the bag.
Jimbo Robinson:I have never patterned my gun.
Nathan Robinson:Well, hey, this is your intervention. Let's try to get that solved before
Jimbo Robinson:I mean, I'm not like that.
Nathan Robinson:You got a few minutes.
David Schuessler:You know what? We have a pattern board at the camp. I bet you've never even noticed it. No. There's a pattern board across the field in the edge
Jimbo Robinson:of the woods. So, I mean, I shoot a Sue Black Eagle, old two, and a Benelium two. And I have never patterned them.
Nathan Robinson:Not something you need to do frequently, but it's good to know just in case your pattern is a little left or right or low or high because they all tend to be different.
Jimbo Robinson:I think by now, I wouldn't you would think I would know that, but No.
David Schuessler:You've what you've done is you've worked through hit and miss. You're you have subconsciously hit and miss, maybe hit. Subconsciously, you know how to hold that gun, but the little shims that come with it, that's what you're supposed to use those for as a company
Jimbo Robinson:That was a so that was a big talk at national convention on a podcast with one of them is how people don't use their shims. And I was like, oh, you mean the plastic tabs in the box that have all gone in the trash?
David Schuessler:Well, that's why all those trap guns and expensive guns have the ability to move. Like, there are no shims.
Jimbo Robinson:You Adjust. Times.
David Schuessler:Yeah. The all of yeah. Adjustable comb and the adjustable butt plate. And when it's a shooter that's wanting to shoot a 100 out of a 100, constantly, they're adjusting that, especially on youth shooters as their bodies grow. And Yeah.
David Schuessler:Like, Will and I Will and I had to go, and we shot a board every single year because he went from a hundred and sixty pounds to two hundred and twenty pounds from his freshman to his senior year. A lot
Jimbo Robinson:of the patterning to my in my gun goes back to my dad, and he told my brother and I one time, he's like, we I think we must have mentioned, let's go shoot it at the house, and he was like, y'all can shoot it all you want, but you're shooting these shells. I was like, okay. Well, then why are we gonna shoot it? You know, just being so broke and having to shoot whatever dad gave us as as young kids, and then when I started buying my own shells, it's like, well, I I gotta shoot this stuff.
Nathan Robinson:It's I think you could argue that it ends up being cheaper in the long run if you learn how to shoot accurately though because
Jimbo Robinson:I knew you were
Nathan Robinson:saying you'll hit ducks on the first shot instead
Jimbo Robinson:of just Third?
Nathan Robinson:Emptying the the tube, Adam.
Jimbo Robinson:Take it to the plug. Nathan just wanna tell my kid.
Nathan Robinson:Hey. We like to hear that as an ammo maker too. Just go ahead and
Jimbo Robinson:Well, it's a little bit
Nathan Robinson:too. Some more.
Jimbo Robinson:You pull that trigger as fast as you can, you know, your shot's ringing. Your shot's be about the size of that mirror we were looking for.
Nathan Robinson:Real good pattern then.
David Schuessler:That's great coaching, Jimbo.
Nathan Robinson:So other
Jimbo Robinson:than call that coaching. That's just, you know
Nathan Robinson:Other than just shooting a board, though, we really recommend target shooting too because nothing's gonna prepare you those shots like sporting clays or five stand will. And you just get to learn your equipment so much better and your skills really develop, and it's fun. Like, it's a good way to burn the off season and be ready for hunting season when it gets here.
David Schuessler:And you never lose. It never goes away.
Jimbo Robinson:Yep.
David Schuessler:You get rusty. Right? But I know some old guys that, you know, they don't do it on the regular anymore. But back in their day, they were shooting skied or trap or sporting clays when they came around three times a week. And they're still good shots Mhmm.
David Schuessler:In their late seventies and eighties because it is a it is it's muscle memory, and it's a it's a a learned skill, and you can get rusty, but it's like riding a bike. It comes back pretty quick Yeah. Once you've trained your your muscles how to do that. There's nothing like somebody that hunts one or two times a year. And, Jimbo, we take people like this, and they never practice, and they get so frustrated.
David Schuessler:Yeah. And and you're frustrated because you can't get out of the hole and you're burning the hole for a week because they can't hit birds and
Nathan Robinson:Sometimes it's as simple as not knowing how to load the gun or how to operate the safety. It's not how you wanna start a hunt. You should be familiar with your gun and how to operate it.
Jimbo Robinson:Yes. So
David Schuessler:just still got a few more months
Jimbo Robinson:for everybody get ready. Patterning in my mind right now. I'm trying to think about patterning my gun,
David Schuessler:and and I'm gonna do it. We'll do it next time we're at the camp.
Jimbo Robinson:I'm gonna do it. Hope I don't
Nathan Robinson:You think you can do it in the next nine days and then show me a pattern when we get to DUX?
Jimbo Robinson:That is absolutely not going to happen. No way.
Nathan Robinson:It's worth a try.
Jimbo Robinson:There is there is probably one day in the next twelve that I will not be thinking about this, and Yeah. I have to take one mental health day before all this madness begins. Because it's amazing. It's it's really truly
Nathan Robinson:It's a lot of moving pieces.
Jimbo Robinson:It is. And and that's what's so cool about DUX, and and I heard a podcast this morning, was listening to a podcast this morning, and one of the things they said about DUX is it's amazing how organized you are, and it made me think about, well, there's really three people, there's three staff members inside the office, and then there's about 10 volunteers that are like the nucleus of this. Yeah. And the three staff members, you know, one of them has multiple duties outside of of Ducks, national level duties, staff meetings and others, but there's kind of like one person that runs the operations of DUX and it's still smooth as silk. And so it's a slim team, but the organization of it is incredible, but we all know our barking orders and everybody kind of fits inside of a different piece of this, and it's it's a lot of what we learned, and I I was still amazed by this.
Jimbo Robinson:I talked about this numerous times after DUX last year. One of the things that came out of DUX in Texas was, you know, the the customer service and how great the customer service was loading people in, loading people out, having people help you move your booth in. And and I I just always in the back of my mind, I was like, we're not gonna be able to provide that inside with a lesser team, with less people. And that's the one thing we heard after the show last year was like, wow. It was amazing.
Jimbo Robinson:I was in and out in two hours from the time I started tearing my boot down because of how many people were there to help. It And was a kudos to a lot of that team, and it's a volunteer staff collaboration, including, you know, our CEO who's like, hey, this year I'm bringing shorts and t shirts and a dirty t shirt, and he will be moving out on Sunday. I guarantee he will be carrying boxes out on Sunday with somebody. He did it last year. David will shorts and t shirts, and we'll all be moving out.
Nathan Robinson:It went really smooth last year. You would think that you guys have been doing that for a decade, but That was a totally different format, and it no
David Schuessler:But we kinda
Nathan Robinson:delays or anything on our side.
David Schuessler:Not that show, but we kinda have. I mean, if we're gonna hold an event, I don't care what event it is. Yeah. It's true. We're we're
Nathan Robinson:masters at events.
David Schuessler:We're going
Nathan Robinson:to kinds.
David Schuessler:We're gonna hold an event. Winchester makes great ammo. DU holds great events.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. And you combine all of that and and, you know, I mean, Dana Barton's had I mean, she's been doing these since before I could drive. Don't tell her I said that. But she has been. I mean, you go back to the great outdoors festivals, she did that.
Jimbo Robinson:She's done Oshkosh. She's done one
David Schuessler:Used to do three a year.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. There was a showdown in in Grapevine one time in conjunction with the national convention that was a show like this, and so when you when I ask questions about certain things, she's like, you know, you don't do that in that kind of show, I'm like, oh, okay. Cool. I'm walking away. I'm like, how does she know that?
Jimbo Robinson:Like, it's amazing what that team knows, and so it's gonna be very high level, very good customer service, and we have some exciting things that we've done differently to add more of more flavor to it. You know, we've got a singer songwriter event inside of that afternoon lull. One of the things I noticed last year and the team talked about was there seemed like Saturday afternoon, four to 05:30 was kind of a lull. Right? A dead period.
Jimbo Robinson:And I think that it was it was first off, I think people were tired because I think people got there at 9AM based on Or cold. Or cold. Yeah. And so buy more sweatshirts, wear long johns. So we're we're offering some we're trying to keep people in there for the vendors to give them something else do.
Jimbo Robinson:And so
Nathan Robinson:we Give a reason to stay.
Jimbo Robinson:Give a reason to stay. Have fun. Stay till four, then travel on to 05:30. We've got an you know, inside of the duct in, which is is my part of Ducks. We've got a lot of very well known people in the industry gonna be there and and some songwriters and some country music artists, and I think it's gonna based on pre ticket sales, it looks like it's gonna be another great year.
Jimbo Robinson:And so we couldn't do this without people like y'all and and and coming and
Nathan Robinson:We're looking forward to it. It was a great time last year. Real family friendly fun event. Everybody was having a good time. That's where we like to be is just networking with our consumers, getting to talk about product, and no better place to do it than with DU.
Jimbo Robinson:And we're excited about some of the games. It's gonna be fun. Yeah.
Nathan Robinson:Come by.
David Schuessler:We'll do a
Nathan Robinson:little competition.
David Schuessler:We're close, aren't we? In Winchester and
Nathan Robinson:I think so. And we're in the same corner.
Jimbo Robinson:Yeah. Right there. Same corner. Yeah. So They can come
David Schuessler:get all the popcorn they want Oh. From the popcorn machine.
Nathan Robinson:Is there a sound
Jimbo Robinson:of Oh, there it is. Awkward moment of silence. I saw him moving. Well, we thank you to all the listeners for listening to another episode in our final installment of the DUX series here on the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. Thank you for listening.
Jimbo Robinson:Walker, thanks for coming and hanging out with us. Nathan, as always, we can't tell you how much we appreciate Winchester. Appreciate you coming down here and and hanging out with us this afternoon. I know y'all got some big plans tomorrow, so we're gonna get you on the road. And to all our listeners out there, we will catch you on another episode.
Jimbo Robinson:Watch out for geese.
David Schuessler:And them alligators.
VO:That's a wrap for today's episode of the Ducks Unlimited Podcast brought to you by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. From post hunt unwinds to celebrations back at camp, Bird Dog delivers award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe, and check out ducks.org/dupodcast for more stories, science, and all things waterfowl. Guest opinions are their own and don't necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited.
VO:Until next time, stay fired up, stay focused, and stay tuned to the ducks.