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In this conversation, Julie Williamson, Ph.D. speaks with Dallas Olson, Chief Commercial Officer at NetApp, about his journey to leadership and the importance of navigating the gap between agreement and alignment in both personal and professional contexts. They discuss the significance of creating safe spaces for conversations, the role of curiosity in engagement, and the necessity of consistency in team alignment. Dallas shares personal anecdotes, particularly about coaching soccer, to illustrate the challenges and rewards of pursuing goals and the importance of process in strategy execution. The discussion emphasizes the need for leaders to foster an environment where team members feel safe to express their thoughts and where curiosity can lead to better collaboration and alignment.
Takeaways:
- Navigating career paths often involves unexpected turns - be open to the journey.
- The gap between agreement and alignment is common in both personal and professional life.
- You have to be in love with the process as well as the goal.
- Creating space for conversations is essential for team alignment
- Curiosity can help leaders understand and address team dynamics better.
- Assuming positive intent fosters a safe environment for discussions.
- Consistency in small actions leads to significant change over time.
- How to execute strategy is often overlooked in favor of the what and why.
- Personal growth experiences can inform professional practices - look for the lessons.
- Work-life balance is something everyone could benefit from aligning on.
- Engaging in open conversations about challenges strengthens team dynamics.
Creators & Guests
Host
Guest
Dallas Olson
Dallas currently serves as the Chief Commercial Officer at NetApp. He and his team have a very sim- ple and inspiring charter: to drive profitable growth by building a unified, end-to-end GTM model that will make it easier and more effective for customers to secure and use our technology to achieve success in their most important initiatives. Dallas is an accomplished executive with experience in software, sales, mergers & acquisitions, strat- egy, and operations. He has led large organizations through disruptive and challenging market tran- sitions in the logistics, supply chain, software, healthcare and IT industries. Previous to NetApp, Dallas Served as the World-Wide Senior Vice-President of GTM Strategy & Rev- enue Operations. Dallas began his tenure in the WebEx Technology Group where he led software teams for the enterprise, global multi-national and service provider teams producing triple-digit growth for four consecutive years. He then moved into leading strategy & planning for the US Com- mercial group, where he helped the theater become the largest software-selling team in the compa- ny. Dallas then served as COO and Vice President for the Americas where he and his team were re- sponsible for strategy, planning, operations, enablement, engagement, and go-to-market efforts. In his role immediately prior to joining Cisco, Dallas served as the Executive Director of Misys All- scripts’s corporate development team where he led merger, acquisition, and corporate strategy. At Misys, he helped lead the company through a strategic transition from a software practice manage- ment platform to an electronic medical record platform and was also asked to lead a company con- solidation of four business units into one. At DHL, Dallas held various leadership roles in sales, in ad- dition to leading the financial vertical and the Global Multi-National sales teams. During his tenure at DHL, he engaged in the transition from a dominant domestic-based system to an international supply chain and logistics business. Outside of his professional life, Dallas lives with his wife Ashley and their three children in Atlanta. An avid soccer fan, he has spent time coaching elite youth teams and supporting Atlanta United in its quest for another cup. He is currently an advisor to the Board for The Joseph Sams School where he pursues his passion for special education.
What is The Failure Gap ?
The Failure Gap podcast is hosted by Julie Williamson, Ph.D., the CEO and a Managing Partner at Karrikins Group, a Denver-based, global-serving business consultancy. Julie delves into the critical space between agreement and alignment - where even the best ideas falter without decisive action. Through candid conversations with a diverse mix of leaders, this podcast explores both the successes and failures that shape the journey of leadership. Featuring visionary leaders from companies of all sizes, from billion-dollar giants to mid-market innovators, to scrappy start-ups, The Failure Gap uncovers the real-life challenges of transforming ideas into impactful outcomes. Tune in to learn how top leaders bridge the gap and drive meaningful progress in their organizations.
Julie Williamson, Ph.D. (00:00)
Hello and welcome to the Failure Gap where we talk with leaders about navigating the space between agreement and alignment. We love talking with interesting people and today we're joined by Dallas Olson. Dallas is the Chief Commercial Officer at NetApp and he has a strong background in navigating the space in particular between strategy and execution. He has a passion for closing that for businesses and for the people who work in them. Dallas, welcome. Julie, thank you.
Yeah, we're so glad to have you here today. And I would love for you to share with our listeners just a little bit about your background and your path to leadership, how you arrived at your role today. Yeah, absolutely. Julie, thanks for having me here. I'm excited. So my role today is the culmination of many different roles. I take a lot of pride in that now, but the short story is I started out in sales and held every job that you could hold in the sales force. And I did everything. I was on the national side. I was on the
corporate account side, did district sales. I found it fascinating at the time. So I came up through sales and I was in the transportation and logistics and supply chain industry at the time. And I said, Hey, I, you know, I'm at the point where I'm going to track. want to do something different. So I jumped to software and went into healthcare software and started in sales. But what happened uniquely while I was there is that the CEO said, you know, you're kind of a weirdo. You are a sales guy.
and you understand numbers. And so your next role is gonna be in &A. And I thought, &A, what are you talking about? And so he did, he threw me into &A. I was gonna be part of a due diligence team. And it was the most fascinating, exciting, interesting thing that I've ever done in my entire career. I absolutely fell head over heels in love with &A and strategy. And I wound up doing that for quite some time. And then I got a phone call from somebody.
at a technology company that said, hey, we're looking for someone who's been in sales, understands how to drive revenue, but has a strategy background, you know, a weirdo, kind of someone with a unique background. And I said, look, I think I fit the bill. And they gave me an opportunity to come over and do go to market. And so I spent the last third of my career and go to market. And from there, it's led me to the current job that I'm in today. And I'm, I'm so thankful for all of those twists and turns that I've had, because I feel like
being multi-dimensional has really made the difference in how I see things. Yeah, know, Dallas, I think you've just tapped into something that's so important. And anyone who's listening, who's navigating their career at the moment, I would just encourage you to think about those opportunities that come up that might feel like a left or a right turn, but they actually take you someplace really interesting. And it is through those collections of experiences that you've likely been able to connect the dots between things like strategy and execution.
moving people from agreement to alignment because you have a broader understanding of the business than just one discipline like sales. So thank you for sharing that. I actually have known you a long time and I learned some things there. So that was really fun for me too. So let's just take a look at your, you you as a person, when you think about the space between agreement and alignment, we all have things in our lives where we say, I agree that would be a good idea if I did that.
but we don't necessarily get ourselves aligned to doing it. Is there anything that stands out for you where you feel like you've experienced this gap in your own life? Absolutely. I experience it on a daily basis where I tell myself, you know, I really should do this. And then when it comes time to do this, I do not do this. And so I call it the alignment agreement hypocrisy gap. I really try and challenge myself because I find that I'm more effective.
and managing that at work now than I am in my personal life, which is usually not the case for most people, but I do. think, you know, in terms of my personal experience, I think I want to try and spend more time focusing on work-life balance. And, you know, I tell myself that I want to do that. I tell myself that I need to do that. And, you know, when it comes around to it, you know, it's, I have to make a decision in the moment and I'm not as good as I want to be there. I'm...
getting better, I'm recovering and getting better. But yeah, in my personal life, I see it front and center, but it's really healthy because it helps me see things that work too, in terms of that approach. You know, I think so many people share that gap of, I want more work-life balance, but not necessarily making the trade-offs or shifting the thinking around how to make that happen. So I appreciate you sharing that. I don't know that very many people are willing to say that out loud, but as we know, the first step in
moving from agreement to alignment is clarity around where those gaps exist. And so I know that it is something that you work on and it's just something that takes constant attention, which is another thing about alignment. doesn't stay, right? You can get there one day and then not be there the next day. And that's okay, right? One of the things I hope people get from listening to this podcast is that it is a lot of work and it's okay if not every day is in perfect alignment. The goal is to continually be in pursuit of better.
Yeah, Julie, I have a saying that I've learned from this now and I just call it win the week. Because I've learned that not every day am I going to be successful, but if I can win the week, if I can win four out of seven days, then I'm getting somewhere. And I've also taught myself you're not going to win every week. And so if I can win two or three out of every month, then I'm on the right track. And so you're right. It's something that I've learned a lot from, this gap between alignment versus agreement, not only personally, but professionally.
I really love that expression, win the week, right? And you're not gonna even win every week, but if you win most weeks, then you're doing pretty good. And I love that acceptance of the reality that life is hard and messy and complicated, and you don't have to be perfect all the time. And not winning every week doesn't mean that you're losing. It means that you're moving forward. Agreed, agreed. yeah. What's something in your life where you have moved from
agreement to alignment where you thought, I should, I really should do that. And you've been able to go out and get it done. What's something that you're, that you feel good about? I'm going to use another, probably another personal example rather than a work example. And I, but, the reason is, is I, I, when I, when I experienced something personally, I can then find the patterns and apply that to work. And it's much easier for me to find clarity that way. you know, a lot of times when I try and find the patterns at work, I get overwhelmed with
trying to look at too much data and those types of things. So I'm going to start with a personal example, because it's taught me a lot. And it's going to sound silly, but it's around coaching soccer. So I had the opportunity to play soccer growing up, and I played in college, and I'm an absolute fanatic for the game. I've played my entire life. And I coached when I have children, and when my kids were little, did the obligatory, I'm going to go coach their youth team. And then I wanted to get really serious. And I thought, hey, I want to
I want actually coach at the elite level. And in order to do that, you have to license. And so I went and took the United States Soccer Federation National D licensing course. it was a week long course where you, play all day long and you do field tests and those types of things. And I'd never done this before, but I went after it. I was terrified. but I went after it and I actually pulled it off. I actually certified and got my D. but it was, you know, it, I don't want to say it came at a cost, but it was hard. I'm, and I.
Interestingly, I'm so proud of that. actually, I have that, I talk about that more than I do my college degree in terms of that achievement. Yeah, I'm really proud of that achievement. Yeah, I love that you set an intention around it. You recognized that it was going to take quite a bit of work. I think sometimes we think that these things happen in catalytic moments and then we're done with them. But in fact, you had to invest and get the work done and put the effort in.
And then it turns out to be something that you can feel really good about and that you really enjoy reflecting on as a success and that it's not a woulda, coulda, shoulda. It's a, I did it. Completely. I think that's what made it so special, Julie, is that, you know, that achievement was, you I worked really, really hard for that and that's what made it even more special. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think there are a lot of things that we say we might like to do. always use the example of speaking another language, like,
wouldn't that just be so cool? But that's just a lot of work. And you know, the reality is that for me, it might not ever happen, right? So I can walk around agreeing that it would be a good idea, but until I really, I would have to do a dramatic mindset shift and really start making some different trade-offs to make it happen. so there's the walk around wishing or just kind of make your peace with it or make it happen. And it feel like you just made it happen. And that's really cool.
Yeah, think, you know, it's so unique that you call that out because one of the things I've learned is many times I'm in love with the idea, but I'm not in love with the process. you know, earlier in my life, I would convince myself that I was in love with the process and I would get into the process and realize, I am not. And so I recognize now earlier on that, hey, I really want to explore that. And I knew that going into this coaching situation was, hey, I...
I'm in love with the idea of this coaching certification, but am I really in love with the process? I willing to suffer and put in the preparation and the hard work and be intentional about this? And the answer was yes. But to your point, I feel the same way. I have always wanted to speak French. I think I might be able to survive on my French, but I cannot speak French, to your point. And so I'm in love with the idea of speaking French, but the process of learning it, not so much. Yeah.
That is such a wonderful distinction Dallas. I love how you frame that being in love with the idea But not being in love with the process if the process of aligning with something doesn't energize you then you might need to rethink it especially in personal and personal things We don't always have that luxury at work. Sometimes we're doing things that have to get done for a bigger Because of a bigger call to action could be something like a board requirement or a market requirement or a competitive threat
different things that we have to respond to. And I know one of the things that you've spent a lot of time in with your career strategy, and strategy is something where I think people can be in love with the strategy, but not be in love with the process that it takes to execute on the strategy. I'm curious if you have any examples or stories about seeing that unfold. my favorite saying that I hear, Julie, in that specific example is,
people telling me, listen, I absolutely must be a part of this strategy discussion. You must include me at all costs. And we say, okay, no problem. And then we go schedule the strategy discussion. And the first thing out of their mouth is, I don't have time. There's too many meetings. Why are we talking about strategy? I need to go deliver on my number or I need to go deliver on this, right? So it's fascinating to me where that exact example occurs. People say, hey, I need to be a part of this process because it's important.
are part of this idea and this outcome. But when it comes to the process, it's very, very difficult for them. And there's a million reasons as to why, but the instinctive reaction is, I find fascinating, right? Because it just goes against their stated intent. Yeah, we hear that a lot. The, have to be in every meeting, and I'm in too many meetings. Exactly. Yeah.
I would just add strategy to that and it's the same thing. Yeah, I have to be in every strategy meeting and I'm in too many strategy meetings. Exactly. That's a much more, I'm going to say it. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think strategy is one of those things where it can be almost too conceptual for people. And so one of the things that I know you spend a lot of time being very intentional about is translating strategy for people who need to execute on it.
And that is one of the processes of getting people aligned, is to make sure that there is clarity and shared understanding of what the goals are and what we're working towards so that people can make different decisions. And I'm curious as you think about some of the strategies that you've tried to deploy or that you've worked on in your career, are there examples where you've seen that either work well or where you've seen it struggle? I know you mentioned go to market.
And a go-to-market change can be really, really tough for a sales force. Yeah, I have. I think, when I think about strategy, I'm going to oversimplify here, but I'm going to break it down into three pieces. I think there's the what, the why, and the how. And early in my career, I spent all of my time on the what and why. And we would work incredibly hard on the what and why. And we'd go to great lengths to produce a really sophisticated and
and intelligent and thoughtful what and why in our strategy. And then I started to realize, you know, over the years that we weren't really doing anything with the what and why. And it, you know, became this exercise that people didn't like, and it became a document that just collect the dust on a shelf, you know, and then, or a document that just got filed and we never touched again until the following year. And so I started to wake up and realize, wow, this is, it's not really...
It's not really moving the organization. was my first realization. And then the second, and this is probably the most devastating was truth be told that if I went and spent maybe 30 minutes with 10 or 15 subject matter experts inside my company and outside my company, I could get to the relatively the same what and why in about four or five hours, you know, versus three or four months of intense work, deep analysis, you know, that we would do previously. I realized that it really
The key to strategy for me and my learning is it's not so much about the what and why, it's about the how. You can get to the what and why very quickly. It's gonna be, people already know what it needs to be. It's getting everyone to go execute against that that really makes the difference and is the hardest part of all of it. And I'm a convert, Julie. I didn't realize the how until probably the last 10 years or so and...
I'm a complete convert to that's what we need to focus on as a company and as a team, not the what and the why. Yeah. Bringing it to life and how you're going to do it, I think is such an important part and it does go unattended in so many organizations. And then curious Dallas, if you have some thoughts or experiences or approaches that you use to help people figure out how to do it together, what are some of the ways that you approach that? Cause that's a tough problem.
It's easier to say, this is why we're doing it. I don't know, maybe we have a big shift in the market or a big new competitor or customers have moved on to something else and we need to catch them. Like the why can be pretty compelling and the what can be pretty specific and reasonably directive, I guess I would say. And yet people can still figure out how to not do it, right? Totally. So what are some of the ways that you've leaned into that problem?
Yeah, think the first is having a clear understanding as to why people aren't leaning in and doing it. And it's, so I had to get very curious as to what's really going on. What's precluding people from at least trying to engage. And so I looked into people's mindsets and I understood that, know, common challenges are people are unwilling to sacrifice. That, you know, in terms of moving forward against...
a broader strategy. A lot of times it requires some people to gain and some people, I don't want to say lose, but to sacrifice. And that's really hard. A lot of people can't find the time, capacity. Finding capacity is a major challenge for many leaders and they just don't know how to do it. There's a courage factor that's in there. Sometimes people just for whatever reason don't have the courage. And then I think a lot of times they're taught not to by their organizations, right? Where somebody goes out and tries to take the right...
action or do the right thing and they wind up being penalized for that. I, understanding all of that helped me then dial in on, how can I go create, you know, I call it safety for a team to, a team to at least operate in an environment where they can, they can approach thinking about the what, the why and the how specifically the how, but you know, that comes into, know, what is the group thinking and doing? I, I, again, what you you called out a couple, but you know, in the group dynamic, you know, there's
There's the fiefdom and resource hogging that you see in teams. And I call it the golf score mentality where, you know, you're playing golf and you want to score. You want the best score you can possibly have. But if you're on a golf team, yeah, you want the golf team to win, but you really want the best score. Right. And so, you know, that can be really hard, right. Trying to get people to understand, Hey, look, it's, want everyone to win. And how do you find that common ground? I've seen the loudest voice prevail in these environments and
And I think this is gonna sound, in terms of trying to understand mindsets and group dynamics, this is gonna sound maybe simplistic or sophomoric, but animosity. So many times that I've tried to engage and get people to come together, where maybe there's a leader here and a leader there over significant functions. The reason that they won't is because something happened in the past that made them not like each other or not respect each other for some reason. And so...
Bringing that to the forefront and understanding what that is and forcing that conversation is really important. So I could go on and on and on. think that the last thing I'd say on understanding individual behavior and how the groups think and what may is precluding people from doing this, Julie, is that a lot of times there's these things, these undercurrents that are invisible and no one's talking about them. The analogy or the metaphor that I always use is,
people in a company would be like, hey, I smell smoke. And senior leadership will be like, you don't smell any smoke. And they're like, no, I smell smoke. They're like, no, you don't. Actually, think something's feeling pretty warm. The door's getting really hot, right? And senior leaders are like, no, you're not. And you don't feel any of that. And it makes people in your organization feel like, what is going on? Am I losing my mind? And the truth is, that everyone's feeling the same way. They're all smelling the smoke and no one's talking about it.
I'll stop there. think that understanding all of that has really allowed me then to say, what is it you do with a team to bring that, to counteract all of that and bring the group together on the how, which was your primary question. can get that, but I want to stop and just get your thoughts about what I've Well, yeah, I mean, you have cataloged some really important things. So I'll go back and say, you started talking about
the challenge of what I would call a scarcity mindset, right? That I have to protect what's mine and I have to make sure that my people is sometimes a very good intention, right? My people are protected, my resources are protected. You talked about the courage to lean in and to sacrifice and to be able to think about the whole picture rather than just your piece of the picture. I think that's very challenging for leaders, again, with good intention.
often, right? So it's not that they're necessarily, you know, coming in with a negative approach. They're just trying to do what they perceive to be the right thing. And so that's really interesting to make visible. I think that's often left unsaid. You rounded out on nobody's talking about these things. I think that often gets just kind of left on the table and nobody leans in and talks about it. And you talked about undercurrents, like humans are just messy.
And we do have relationship issues and we do have histories with each other. And sometimes that animosity and that, or that past experience comes into our decision-making as leaders because none of us are perfect, right? We're all perfectly human. And so we have that baggage sometimes. And it also is something that goes unsaid or undelt with. And so it can lead to some poor behaviors between leaders sometimes. And again, often with valid reasons.
but it doesn't mean that it doesn't make it right. And then you were talking about the importance of bringing this up and making sure that from a mindset and group dynamic perspective, you're creating safety as a leader to have these conversations, not about what you're going to do, but about how you're going to do it together. Did I capture some of those bigger points that you were landing? Yeah, absolutely. Those are all the underlying reasons as to, and there's many, many more, but.
Those are some of the big ones that you, you know, create teams or create the environment where it's hard to focus on the how and you can't get to the how. So yeah, I think you covered everything I threw at you. Yeah. Yeah. When you think about the ways that you as a leader have tried to create that space for your team to be able to talk about the really important things that get in the way of how they need to do something together. What are some of the approaches that you've used or?
any interesting conversations that you can reflect on that you've had where you saw that light bulb go off or suddenly people were talking about how to lead together instead of what they were doing? Yeah, I think you said it so well when you said create the space. That's step one. I think that, you know, I had someone really, really smart and wise say to me, hey, Dallas, you're trying to have these conversations. Let's take a look at, you know, your staff call agendas. How much time have you allotted?
to having this discussion. And I look back and I could say it honestly that in every single staff call that had held in probably the previous five years, not one minute had been allocated to, we need to talk, right? And we're gonna create an environment where we can step back and we're gonna put all of the urgent demands of the business to the side. And we're gonna create the space, as you said, Julie, to have this conversation that's absolutely necessary. And I think a lot of times, know, whatever it is,
I don't want to say it's fairly obvious, but you know if there's animosity between team members and that needs to be dealt with. And you know, if everyone has visibility to what that smoke is, right? Those things are usually there. They surface pretty quickly. And so that is step one. And it was, it was, it was so simple and so wise. was really actually quite embarrassed that I just didn't even see it or recognize it at the time. And now that's the first thing that I do is I start.
all of our staff calls, I start all of my meetings, even my off sites by saying, all right, we're going to take a step back or a step to the side, and we're going to take a deep breath and we're going to create some space to have this appropriate conversation. So that's, that's the biggest thing that I've done. And then I think everything flows from there, but I, you know, I'll throw out maybe two other really quick ideas on that. The other thing that I've, that I've done is skip levels. so you get a third party to come in.
and do interviews with the teams below, your team below you and the team below them, right? I think it is absolutely fascinating because we're all convinced that the level of dysfunction exists only at the level above us, right? And everyone in every organization is convinced that the people above them are the problem, not them, not the way they're leading. And so when you go ask someone, you know, to do a very independent, you know, you
conversation with people to report to you and people, you know, two or three levels below you and the organization, you'll find out a lot that they'll tell. And if they feel safe and it's done appropriately, they will, they will share and share abundantly and you'll find out what's really going on. And I think that is incredibly validating in terms of trying to have this, you know, this real conversation when you create the space. then the last is I just started making sacrifice simple. And so I, you know,
Again, I'm oversimplifying this, and we can talk about more of these in a minute, but if I create the space, we have the conversation, we've gotten feedback from people in the org that tell us the truth. And then I say, hey, look, there's certain actions that you can go take to make things better. And some of these you've been penalized on. An example I'll use is people will say, hey, look, I'm trying to manage my business and I'm trying to manage people. And I'm either trying to promote somebody.
in the organization because they truly deserve it, or I'm trying to move somebody out of the organization because they're just not performing. And if they move them out, a lot of times that budget might disappear, it might be reallocated. And so, hey, why would I go do the hard thing, the right thing, and move someone out only to lose that funding and replace that person? Those are the little things that if you pay attention to that type of stuff, or even the promotion, we're rewarding our best people.
and everyone sees that, this person is truly deserving and they're getting promoted, that gives me hope. You know, if you can protect those moments where people are sacrificing or they're doing something courageous or hard, it can make all the difference. So again, I'm oversimplifying a lot, but those are the biggies for me just out of the Yeah, I think also Dallas, I really appreciate you giving a couple of really specific things that aren't that complicated, but they are hard to do.
So yes, simple but not easy, right? And I really appreciate your idea around make sacrifice simple, right? Make it something that people can do and make it visible so that you're having that conversation instead of gaslighting people into thinking there is no sacrifice here. There is no smoke here. Like acknowledging it and recognizing it and working with it rather than trying to avoid it or pretend like it doesn't exist. That's such an important simple step.
but it's not easy always to do. And those aren't always easy conversations. So I really appreciate that construct for people who are trying to figure out how do I get people to get on board and to have the courage and to make the sacrifices and to do the things that they know they need to do, but that for some reason they just can't quite take that step. Agreed, agreed. Starting by creating a space will open the door. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm thinking back to your example from earlier about going through the coaching process. And I just want to speculate, and you tell me if I'm right or wrong, that there might have been some conversations with your family about what's this going to take? Because I really want to do this, but it's going to take time away, and it's going to take some commitment and some effort. And you probably had to have a couple of conversations in that space to make that happen. Would that be true?
Absolutely. And those were the most important conversations, Julie, in creating the space to talk about not only what this meant to me, but what did it mean to everyone else that was important to me in my life? And me actually listening to what they needed and what they wanted and what they were hopeful for as a part of that too. And it changed everything in terms of me being able to go after that. I had a conversation with my partner and...
she was able to share with me, hey, here's what's important to me. And if you can find a way to do this, I'm all in, I'm supportive. even my children, I wanted to be there with them and for them. And I asked them about it and we had the same kind of conversation. again, it made all the difference. It gave me the opportunity to engage wholeheartedly and also understand what I needed to do to fulfill the other side of that agreement. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's...
the muscle, right, that it takes to lean in. And that's the shift from a leadership perspective that I think you're encouraging people to be considering, which is don't be so focused on what you want to do that you lose sight of how to do it with the people around you. Because very few of us do anything in complete isolation, whether it's in our personal lives or at work. Typically, it is at least easier and maybe more fun
if we're doing it with people and often it's more possible if we're doing it with people in a productive way. And I think that's where the magic lies in terms of alignment and getting people working together on things that are often very hard to achieve. Yeah, I couldn't agree more, Julie. think, you know, what I discovered on the, on the backside of that experience is exactly what you just said. My mindset was when I was really trying to learn and learn to become
I want to say an expert, was very different from some of the things that I engage in at work in terms of how I learn at work. And I realized, wow, I'm thinking about learning differently in this moment that I do and a lot of the things I engage in at work. So that opened my eyes to if I'm going to learn truly for expertise, that's really important. And then the second part is just to your point, the people around me, the access to role models, the access to
information and training. It's all out there and readily accessible. And so it's not as hard and as daunting as I made it out in my own mind. And I think it's the same way, I see it the same way at work now where, you know, I look at AI in front of all of us and AI can be daunting to a lot of people. And I've just learned, look, I can tackle this the same way that I did in this coaching experience. There's a ton of information resource, there's role models, there's expertise that I can go readily.
access and if I'm going to learn, I need to learn to truly develop expertise, not just learn to learn or check a box. so again, that experience was just a game changer for me on the work side. And I think so often as adults, we get away from what it takes to learn something and to challenge ourselves to continue to fuel that muscle. And also as adults, it takes different sometimes approaches and techniques to learn.
than it did when you were in high school or college because we're just different humans. And so I think you're really tapping into something else there, is if people who are listening are thinking about how do I figure this out? One of the things that you might try is challenge yourself to learn something new outside of work because you might uncover some really great approaches for yourself and ways to continue to develop and fuel yourself that you can translate into the work environment.
Yeah, know, Julie, you made me think of, you know, the connection that I made from this too, to work on, you know, taking that first step in creating the space. I remember thinking about, need to create the opportunity for us to talk. And then I had that initial rush of, oof, this is gonna be uncomfortable. This is gonna be awkward. This is gonna be emotional and challenging and sensitive. And I stopped myself and I just said, hey, look, you I think back to that coaching experience.
What really helped me learn was curiosity. Again, another wise person told me, start with curiosity. And I said to myself, all right, let's get curious. What is it that might preclude us from having the appropriate conversation? Who is going to have an issue in this room? when I became curious about taking this first step of creating the space, it allowed me to think much more clearly and effectively and orchestrating this moment for myself and for the team.
And again, I learned so much from that experience, but the curiosity piece is what I bring back to, how do you just get going when you might have that rush of, boy, this is gonna be hard. Start with curiosity and learn. Yeah, and I think we can also focus that curiosity. Sometimes I think leaders make the mistake, they're so clear on what needs to be done. And sometimes it could be a fiat, right? Like they just have been told, you've got to make this happen. Or they could have spent a lot of time,
strategy people love to get super deep into the data and you feel like you know this is what we need to do and so they don't want to open up the door to being curious about what other people think should be done. You know what that's actually okay but you can be curious about how people see the opportunity to do it together and so where you direct that curiosity and how you engage people in conversation about it I think can also be a powerful reframing for people who are trying to get
their teams aligned to deliver together. You may or may not be able to negotiate what you do, but you can negotiate how you do it together. Julie, I think that that is so powerful what you just called out there. Cause that's been my experience in all of these moments, these conversations, these meetings, these processes is that when we truly get curious, it opens everything up. And I've learned that it, you know, it's actually counterintuitive. know, curiosity can make.
strategists nervous because it means there's other potential answers out there that may not be your own. And what I've learned as a strategist is it's not my answer. It's the group's answer. Because if the group believes this is the answer and they're committed and there's a degree of validation that it's right, of course that needs to occur. But if the group believes it, then they're going to commit. that is the most important part of this process. And once that occurs, then you can fine tune the detail.
on how it needs to come to life. But to me, that again is like, you know, open the door with Create The Space. That's the first step, what you just articulated into the room. Yeah. Yeah. Getting people to be able to communicate it in their own language and in their own words is such a powerful moment for teams. But we often skip over it because, know, Dal, as we talked earlier, you mentioned capacity as being a challenge. And all of this does take time. It takes dialogue and being in discussion with people. And I think
I really appreciate your earlier comment about setting aside time during your team meetings or offsites or whenever you get together to check in on some of these things. You don't necessarily need to have a two-day offsite. If you can get into the routine of talking about how we're doing this together on a regular basis, you build that muscle across the team so that you can start to come back into alignment on a regular basis rather than getting really out of alignment and trying to course correct.
in some kind of catalytic moment. Yeah, I think it's so important, to make sure that you do this consistently, to your point, because the catalytic moment, I call it the Big Bang Theory. It happens, and then it goes away and fades, and then you feel the slump. think, for me, one of the things that we do now, and again, this may sound silly, but it's so powerful, is we'll start every meeting.
by creating some space. And we start off by saying, look, everyone take an opportunity and share two words, right? One word on how you're feeling about the agenda and the topics today, just one word. And then give us one word as to why you may not be present in this moment. And it could be personal and professional, something that may keep you from being fully present in this moment. And the degree of understanding, and I'd say even empathy that just...
starts to grow inside of the team is unbelievable because you'll have people that say, you know what, I may not be fully present here because my mother's sick and she's in the hospital. Or, you know, I may not be present because my daughter is, you know, dancing for an award today, right? And I'm just, you know, really nervous or excited and I may be trying to sneak out and watch it kind of thing. And so it's not me not wanting to be here. This is just a special moment for my daughter. it just, it's unbelievable that if you're consistent about creating this space and consistent about coming back to...
to the how, how it can just allow people to continue to grow and strengthen it not only as a team, but just as an understanding of each other. Yeah. You know, we always say small things done consistently over time or what changed the world. I love that. Anything, you know, I would encourage anyone listening to hold on to that because it does take time to make positive change and to get people working differently together. So don't give up hope. Right. I love that.
I'm to write that one down. you go. Well, Dallas, this has been wonderful. You've given us some really great things to think about everything from challenging that scarcity mindset, thinking about how you lean in with courage, making sacrifice simple, giving people the opportunity to express themselves and to talk about what their concerns are, making things that are really potentially very confronting like animosity visible.
trying to bring all of that up so that there is a safe space to have these conversations and build the muscle across the team to talk about the things that are holding them back and not just stay fixated on what you're trying to do and how you measure that, but think about how are we doing that together and are we being effective as a team? So I really appreciate a lot of the great tips that you've offered and examples that you've offered. So thank you for that. I'm curious if you had to summarize just two or three things that you might say,
to our listeners, you are trying to get out and get their team aligned. What would be the highlights that you would want them to take away? Yeah, if you're trying to get your team aligned, I would say, you know, start by creating the space as we've talked about. I think that's step number one. That opens the door to everything. I think use curiosity, you know, for yourself as you think about putting that together and then create and encourage curiosity in the room. I would also say assume positive intent.
You know, that's something that I had to learn. And, and I think that if you assume, everyone's showing up today to try and do the right thing, right? They're trying to do their job well and move the move their team and the company forward. That, that again, it sounds very simple, but, a lot of times we assume other people are out to stop our agenda or stop what we're doing or they're anti-sponsors or whatever. But, I don't want that to sound overly negative, but it just,
Assuming positive intent is extraordinarily powerful in allowing you and your team to talk in a very safe environment. And then I think, at the very end of this, think just being consistent. I found that where we've been consistent, even to your point, in your quote, in the small things, Julie, it's made all the difference over time.
And that's where the true growth has occurred inside of our group. And I realized, wow, if we'd just taken four five small things and done them every single week, you know, by the time I was sitting in revaluating it, let's say a year later, it would have been extraordinary. And we had one or two which were beautiful and they were just amazing. And so now I've learned that, don't overwhelm yourself. I would conclude with don't overwhelm yourself with some grand plan. Take what's most important and do it.
every single week, keep it super simple and the returns will be extraordinary. Yeah, that's such a great reminder. What's the expression? People tend to overestimate what they can get done in a day and underestimate what they can get done in a year. that again, another that's fantastic. So, so true. Yeah. Yeah. Let's all hold on to not losing sight of the power of what we can do over the course of time if we stick with it. Yeah, well said. Yeah. Yeah.
So Dallas, final question for you. ask everybody, if you could get your inner circle or your team or your family or whoever it might be aligned to doing something together, what would you want them to be aligned to? Wow. That is a big question, Julie. think, goodness. I instinctively think I should say something aspirational in terms of alignment, right? But more things done consistently over time.
You know what, any effort around small things done consistently, you know what, you're right. I'm to stick with that theme, right? So, I think two things, if I could align, just my family and friends and small circle would be around work-life balance. I think that if I could get all of us to align on what that really meant and that we all could participate in that in the same manner and do that without risk or anything, I think that would be fantastic on work-life balance. And then...
you know, maybe this is silly, but if I could convince my family that Atlanta United and the MLS and Arsenal in the premiership are the only and most supreme football clubs in the world, that would be beautiful. That sounds great. We're all going to be fans. I'm going to do one to eat meal for my family. can tell you.
That sounds awesome. Well, Dallas, thank you so much for being so generous with your time and your experience and your thinking. I know people are going to get a lot of value out of this. I just want to remind people who are listening, if you've enjoyed this, go ahead and subscribe and like and comment and feel free to share with your friends and colleagues as well. We really appreciate your support. And Dallas, I hope you have a great rest of your day. Thank you so much for being here. Julia, thank you so much for having me.