The Real Secret Behind Boutique Firm Growth (Hint: It’s Not Marketing)

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE.

Are you looking for some advice from a lawyer working in immigration? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Tyson interviews Evelyn Ackah, an immigration lawyer whose personal journey from Ghana to Canada shapes her professional mission. Evelyn shares how her family’s sacrifices and early experiences with separation inspired her passion for helping others build legacies through immigration. 

Evelyn shares her own personal growth when facing challenges that people can learn from. Being the first and the only (which stems from her experience living as a woman of colour in 1970s Vancouver, Canada) really shaped her mindset when it came to her law career. For her, it is all about how to fix, solve and improve something or a situation. Growing up with a hyper-independant mindset helped Evelyn lean into herself and her strengths when working for clients.

Tyson and Evelyn speak about what drives leadership and team culture for a law firm. For Evelyn, it is all about purpose. Thinking about why you are where you are and how to make today better than yesterday. For law firm owners, knowing your purpose will allow you to understand how you need to lead your team so everyone can succeed. If a leader knows why they are at that firm, the people working there will know too.

Listen in to learn more!

• 3:17 Impact of Family Separation and Sacrifice
• 6:50 Marketing Immigration Services
• 15:20 Transition from Corporate Law to Entrepreneurship 
• 18:34 Self-Care and Morning Routine 
• 25:26 Work-Life Balance and Parenting 
• 36:55 Therapy and Parenting Through Trauma 
• 40:31 Business Impact of Immigration Trends 
• 45:51 Financial Planning and Firm Stability
• 49:35 Managing Lead Influx and Marketing 
• 58:47 Celebrating Success and Team Building 
• 1:00:14 Reflecting on 15 Years in Business
• 1:03:42 Retirement, Legacy, and Living Fully 
  
  

Tune in to today’s episode and checkout the full show notes here. 


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Creators and Guests

Host

Tyson Mutrux

Tyson is the founder of Mutrux Firm Injury Lawyers and the co-founder of Maximum Lawyer.

What is Maximum Lawyer?

Maximum Lawyer is the podcast for law firm owners who want to scale with intention and build a business that works for their life.

Hosted by Tyson Mutrux, each weekly episode features candid conversations with law firm owners, business experts, and industry leaders sharing real strategies and lessons learned in the trenches.

If you're ready to grow your firm with less stress and more support, this is your next must listen. Subscribe today.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:02 This is maximum lawyer with your host, Tyson Matrix.

Evelyn Ackah 00:00:11 Evelyn. So I have a quote from you. It's immigration isn't just law. It's about people, purpose and opportunity. What does that mean?

Multiple Speakers 00:00:21 That means to me that immigration is about creating legacy. I love the work I do because I'm dealing with people, and I have a goal to help them get to Canada or the United States to transform their lives, whether they are business person or family. And it really feeds my soul. It's a passion of mine to know that I'm creating a whole new generation of immigrants, businesses, professionals that get to create a legacy in a new country and launch their families.

Evelyn Ackah 00:00:53 You said legacy twice. So why legacy? Why is that so important?

Multiple Speakers 00:00:57 I think everybody wants to leave this world, having left something behind, not just our children or our families, but a real sense of purpose. And I was here and I did something. And I feel like with immigration, it allows for that transformation because you don't just move as a family, then you have the next generation and next generation and you create wealth or you create businesses.

Multiple Speakers 00:01:22 You make a difference in the new country that you've moved to. So I feel like most immigrants want that sense of legacy. They want to leave something behind that makes all the sacrifices that they've made worthwhile leaving their home, leaving their family, leaving their home country.

Evelyn Ackah 00:01:39 So for what? For you? What what what sort of experiences have you gone through that have colored that view, that viewpoint, because you clearly believe that that's something I can tell. What experiences have you had that have had made you have that viewpoint?

Multiple Speakers 00:01:53 Well, I'm an immigrant. I was born in Ghana, West Africa, and we immigrated to Canada when I was five, and I never thought I'd be an immigration lawyer. I was a corporate lawyer, but it must have really stuck with me because my dad left when my mom was pregnant and went to Germany. Our immigrant story is he became a mechanic because it was the fastest thing he could do from a very poor village and a poor family, and then the people that he befriended helped him get to Vancouver.

Multiple Speakers 00:02:21 This Hungarian family that he had met in Ghana, and they helped him get to Vancouver where they immigrated. And then my mom came. So she left me with family when I was like three, and he wanted her to see if she'd like Vancouver. And then he came to get me. So I did not meet my father til I was five at the airport. So I really have a deep understanding of the importance of immigration, and obviously it's a wonderful thing. They've changed my lives, however, that five years. Those are big things and big periods of time where you're not with that parental person. And so when I work with immigrants, I'm always like, even if it's going to take five years to get them, go visit every year. You know, it's easier now with FaceTime and all the technology, but back then you would be writing letters and sending cassette tapes. So I didn't have that same experience of being with my parent because he was busy immigrating and starting a whole new life for us.

Multiple Speakers 00:03:17 So I feel like, you know, my dad's past now, almost eight years. It has been his legacy that he's raised two lawyer daughters, that he's established his life. And he he gave us so much that he sacrificed. And that meant sacrificing time with me to pursue the bigger goal. And I feel like most immigrants have that.

Evelyn Ackah 00:03:37 That was the exact word that I was thinking was sacrifice. And the fact that he did sacrifice that for the benefit of his family, that's that's incredible. I wonder if he were to go back and do it again. Do you think he would still do make the same choice?

Multiple Speakers 00:03:50 He's very proud of me and my sister. His whole goal was for us to have the opportunities that he didn't have. And so he would. Absolutely. Maybe he would have brought me sooner. You know, we talked about it. And I think those things affect your relationship for years. That attachment that didn't happen until later. Whereas my sister was born in Vancouver where seven years apart.

Multiple Speakers 00:04:10 And she never was without either of my parents. So for me, I was without both parents for a couple of years. And it changes who you become. So for me, when I think about immigration, I think about the need to stay together as much as possible. I always want families to come together, but sometimes one person has to go first, and I always want them to cut that period as short as possible, because I've seen some of the negative impacts of that if the absence is too long.

Evelyn Ackah 00:04:38 So given that experience, I wonder if that's guided your the way you counsel some of your clients.

Multiple Speakers 00:04:43 I think it has. I mean, obviously most of our clients at my firm are corporate and professional. They bring their families if they can, but some of them come as caregivers, as a nurses that maybe not able to bring their families right away. I always say you have to go home every year. You have to or your employer needs to send you home, or you have to get started on the permanent residence right away.

Multiple Speakers 00:05:04 Because I've seen it when children are apart from their parents too long, and it can create a lot of family drama and a lot of feelings of abandonment, and we don't want that. So we're very big on saying like, let's do it all together or let's do it fast.

Evelyn Ackah 00:05:20 Yeah. So you you said at the very beginning it was about bringing people to the United States or to to Canada. The first thing that I thought was like, it's two sets of values that are different. US and Canada are not completely different. There's a lot of overlap, but it's there. You're selling different things, right? When you think of like whenever I think of the United States, I think freedom. You know, that's like one of the big things I think of, like when I think of Canada, I think of like really nice, happy people. I notice they said, yeah.

Multiple Speakers 00:05:49 We are.

Evelyn Ackah 00:05:50 You know what I mean? Like, so I just but like. Like there's no, like, real like value that I think of when I think of Canada.

Evelyn Ackah 00:05:56 I don't know why that is, you know, interesting. But I think like when, like the US is like freedom, like that's like the thing.

Multiple Speakers 00:06:03 Because it's what you know.

Multiple Speakers 00:06:04 Right. And I mean, like when I move people, most of the people that I move are from Canada to the US and they're expanding their businesses or they're investing. So they see it as a larger marketplace, like ten times bigger and opportunities to just, you know, hugely grow their businesses. Most people are doing it for business or investment reasons to get green cards. Most people come to Canada for lifestyle. So there's a difference. Health care, you know, for safety in a different way maybe than they've come from another country and they want to feel safe if they've come from a war torn country. So people choose different countries for different things.

Evelyn Ackah 00:06:40 Well, and that's what I want to ask about because they are so different. I'm glad you mentioned that. So like the differences, because I knew it would be easier because you, you, you spend so much time in each country.

Evelyn Ackah 00:06:50 How do you market that? That's like that to me. Like how do you market to those clients? Like because it feel like the messaging is different.

Multiple Speakers 00:06:59 It's interesting. Tyson you say that. I mean, I don't really market to where they're going. I market the immigration services, but I don't. They are the ones that know where they want to go. So I really don't market America or Canada, but I market. Are you looking to make a change? Do you own a business? Do you have money to invest? Are you a professional? Where do you want to be? And so I leave it to them to decide where they want to be. If they are coming from Nigeria or Dubai and they want to go to the US and they think that's a big market, go for it. Other people make decisions around where your family already is because immigrating, even if you're a professional, is hard. It's like you start over. If to find where you're going to get your haircut, where you're going to send your kids to school.

Multiple Speakers 00:07:40 Like it's not just the work that moves you, it's the whole lifestyle that has to change. So people make those decisions and then I just help facilitate where they want to go.

Evelyn Ackah 00:07:50 Because you you encountered. I mean, it was a really tough thing that have to go through that whenever you were five. Right. And not seeing your, your father for so long. So not even five like from 1 to 5. Do you think that that allows you to overcome obstacles a lot easier than the average person?

Multiple Speakers 00:08:07 Oh my goodness, I feel like I'm in therapy. This is such a good question. I think I'm very resilient. I very much have experienced a lot and I'm very resilient. And my family used to always say, because I was the first, the first to go to university, the first to go to law school, the first to move to big city left Vancouver a lot of first I did. I definitely am, I'm strong. And they used to say that I went to public school and I had so many experiences of racism and discrimination and being chased home and beaten up.

Multiple Speakers 00:08:38 And I'll never forget my dad teaching me in grade three how to box because he was like, we can't keep doing this, Evelyn. So when my my sister started school. She went to private Catholic school. They just knew Audrey did not have that same level of I'm going to keep fighting. We're just different. She's much softer. She's. She's very sweet and kind. Not that I'm not, but I can be very strong, and I think I had to be. So there's a certain sense of self-sufficiency that has been with me my whole life.

Evelyn Ackah 00:09:07 Now I know not to try to box with you. You know, you got a little bit of little fighting. Not a little bit. A lot of fighting. Yeah.

Multiple Speakers 00:09:13 It's funny. I'll never forget my dad was on his knees and he's like, come on, I've let it. I was like, ooh. And you know, and I'm crying. And he's teaching me to box because he was like, you.

Multiple Speakers 00:09:22 Can't keep running. You've got to turn around and deal with it.

Multiple Speakers 00:09:25 And I dealt with it and that was the end of it. But I had a lot of experiences like that growing up that I think really created resiliency in me. And this is Vancouver in the 70s. There were not a lot of people of color. We were very new immigrants, and we didn't have a lot of people around us that looked like us. And so it was a lot of being the first and the only. I always say that that's something that really has, has been with me my whole life.

Evelyn Ackah 00:09:50 I want to know more about the mindset, because you talked about the difference between you and your your sister. I wonder, like you encounter a roadblock. And what's your initial thought like, what do you where does your brain go?

Multiple Speakers 00:10:02 How can I fix it?

Multiple Speakers 00:10:03 How can I solve it? You know, how can I improve this? How can I pivot? How can I turn this into something positive? That's how I operate. You know, I definitely have moments.

Multiple Speakers 00:10:14 Where I'm like, oh, my God, this just happened.

Multiple Speakers 00:10:16 I need a.

Multiple Speakers 00:10:16 Minute and that minute, a day or two. And then it's like, what can I do to get out of this and shift and move forward?

Evelyn Ackah 00:10:24 Was there a you mentioned shift? That was the word I was going to use. Was there a shift at some point where you turned this on where you learned this, or was this something that you've always had?

Multiple Speakers 00:10:33 I think it's a combination. You know, my parents, they always said that I was very independent. Like, I hated needing them for anything. And this really, I mean, of course, they've been wonderful parents, but they. I didn't want to need them in the sense of asking for things. Even money. Like I started working when I was like 12 and I just really wanted to be independent, and I felt like I had to take care of myself, I think. And that's that early childhood experience where even I was surrounded by a whole village of family and friends. The people that were your main people were not there 100%.

Multiple Speakers 00:11:07 And so even if they took care of me and my mom and dad would say, we sent you all the best clothes and all, you had all the best toys, and I did. But those things, when your child don't really make up for not having that person, your nurturer there. So I think it's a combination and I've done a lot of work personally, you know, like maximum lawyer, lots of coaching, lots of therapy, lots of reading. Those are things that I think have helped me kind of process all of that, and to kind of turn it into something that I think of as a superpower.

Evelyn Ackah 00:11:37 What's been the most impactful, you know, you know, coaching You've had a book that you've had a book that you've read. I mean, like something that has had an impact on you, like on your mindset. And and here's the thing. This is I want to make sure that people are clear. This isn't like for me to push. Maxwell. I don't want you to mention Maxwell.

Evelyn Ackah 00:11:55 Even if that were the truth. I want you to like, I want I want something else. Something that's really informed you, that's really affected your your decision making for the positive.

Multiple Speakers 00:12:04 Oh my goodness, there's so many books. I'm just, like, trying to think of one. Yeah, I can't even think of one. Tyson, because there's so many books that I've read that have helped me through difficult times. I think there's one book I think I forget what his title is, but it's something about how difficult times help you grow. That's the subtitle, but I can't remember the. And it's something that I've read through challenges over and over. I still have it, but it's kind of the book that's about being a seeker. And there's another book called I Think The Seeker, and it's that sense that you're always looking for the lessons that are occurring around you and that you're not just it's not just happening to you, it's happening for you. And you know, that book in particular is really help me to kind of understand life.

Multiple Speakers 00:12:49 And when things happen, it's like, how do I turn this into a lesson as opposed to just an experience? And then I don't really mine it fully. I think it's important to mind those challenges or those, those valleys so that you can come out and hold on to that and make it be for a purpose, not just something that it came and went.

Evelyn Ackah 00:13:09 So that makes me think the seeker it makes me think of there are a lot of people, and this is not a criticism at all, I promise of you or anybody else. Okay. But I do sometimes see people where they are. They go out and they go to a bunch of conferences. They take a bunch of courses. They they learn all this information, but they don't do anything with it. And I wonder, with you being a seeker, if it has inhibited you in taking action.

Multiple Speakers 00:13:34 No, I'm very big on action, sometimes almost too fast. You know, I think sometimes my team would be like, oh my God, she's back again with another change.

Multiple Speakers 00:13:44 But I implement and I think that's the biggest thing that I get out of. A lot of the work I've done is you can read it all, and I have read a whole bunch of stuff and I have done a lot of things, but I think it's important to implement and figure out how you can bring part of it into your life, you know? And so it's I'm not perfect by any means, but I definitely try to take something out of every experience or every opportunity to learn and think about how I can add it to my whole platform of things that help me kind of move through life.

Evelyn Ackah 00:14:15 So I picked out a quote for you that I wanted to read to you and just get your thoughts on it. The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way. And that's why Marcus Aurelius. So I wonder to me that's like the perfect quote for you, but I wonder what your thoughts are.

Multiple Speakers 00:14:31 What stands in the way becomes the way. Interesting Marcus Aurelius. Yeah, I think there's a lot in that.

Multiple Speakers 00:14:39 I think every day I wake up and I'm just focused on taking care of my mental, spiritual, emotional health, physical health and then taking care of my children and then thinking about what my purpose is. So that's really important to me is why am I here? And how can I make today better than yesterday? That's a big thing for me. And I think people who aren't growth minded, I'm not interested in, you know, I just feel like I want people around me that feel that same passion to do better. No, we can't always do better every day, but to at least be striving and to understand what that looks like, but what that feels like to be a tiny bit better than you were the day before.

Evelyn Ackah 00:15:20 You had mentioned independence before. Right. And I wonder if that colored your decision to leave cushy corporate law and to start your own firm.

Multiple Speakers 00:15:31 Yep. Freedom is one of my values. So I mean my values I would say is freedom which for me is independence. Relationship is of value.

Multiple Speakers 00:15:41 Authenticity is a value and just being really transparent. So yes, I think, you know, I learned so much in big law. I would never, ever, ever regret that time. But it was a challenge. I was in Toronto, a big law global law firm, sometimes being the only person of color and working 18, 20 hours a day, seven days a week. Like, you know, I put in my my share, I paid my dues, and I learned a lot. And 12 years doing that and making partner made the goal. But once you get there and then you're like, is this really what it is like? You know, you're like, well, is this it? And I just decided I wanted different and I wanted to be able to start a firm that allowed me to bring all of myself to work in a way that I wasn't able to in a firm that I didn't control.

Evelyn Ackah 00:16:31 Does that independence cause any issues at work when it comes to the team where you kind of want to maybe be off on your own, doing your own thing, or have you.

Multiple Speakers 00:16:39 With my firm.

Evelyn Ackah 00:16:40 With your.

Multiple Speakers 00:16:40 Firm? No, I think I drive the vision of the firm, and they know that this is the vision for us and what we're doing, and they know why we do what we do. But I'm very team oriented in the sense that I need these people. These. I always say I have a saying in my in my office, I said, your team are your dream builders. They are really helping me build my dream of having my own law firm and take care of my family. And I tell them that all the time I could not do what I do without them. So we are very much a team, but I'm still leading the team.

Evelyn Ackah 00:17:13 I like that. I'm glad. I'm happy to hear that too. When it comes to vision and you mention your purpose. So this is a good segue because I want to talk about both of those things. Are those two tied together?

Multiple Speakers 00:17:23 Yes.

Evelyn Ackah 00:17:24 And in what ways?

Multiple Speakers 00:17:25 My vision is for Acca business Immigration Law to be the premier boutique immigration law firm in North America.

Multiple Speakers 00:17:32 And it's tied to the purpose of making transformations happen in people's lives and helping, you know, a million people become immigrants, whether it's in Canada or the United States. And so it just drives me because that is what my purpose is, and it's tied to my vision. And so in order for me to implement my vision, I need to keep the purpose close. So whenever you know something happens at work, I always say to everybody, remember why we're doing this. Like, look, we just had all these people successfully enter, and if we have one that doesn't get through successfully, let's not let it get us down because we're making such a big impact in people's lives every day. And when we have tough days, I always tell the team like, just remember why we're doing this. You know, we're here to change lives every day. And so I think they're just interrelated for me. Purpose and vision.

Evelyn Ackah 00:18:26 Yeah I agree. Which I'm going to now ask about your you said you basically get up every day to take care of yourself.

Evelyn Ackah 00:18:34 How do you take care of yourself? And I'm very curious. The first thing I thought of was, what if she has a morning routine? Because everyone talks about this morning routine and hormones thinks it's a bunch of hogwash to have an actual morning routine, but I do. Yeah. So I wonder what your morning routine is. And what else do you do to take care of yourself?

Multiple Speakers 00:18:51 My morning routine is I get up, the alarm goes off, or I wake up before the alarm and I just lie in bed for about five minutes and just kind of center, kind of just be grateful I woke up again and don't look up my phone. I do a little meditation. I started this practice. It's called positive intelligence. It's called PCU, probably about 5 or 6 months ago. And it's really helped me through a recent transition to just kind of start my day with it's kind of like a meditation that's about mindfulness, but also about developing that strength in your brain of of being able to detach.

Multiple Speakers 00:19:29 So I do that and it's like five minutes, and then I usually stretch a little bit because I have sore hips. I'm getting old. And then I usually if I go to the gym, I see my trainer three days a week or I work out at home. I do all that before I get my kids moving in the morning, so it just kind of helps me. And then I look up my phone. So I really try not to look at my phone for the first hour or two hours in my morning.

Evelyn Ackah 00:19:51 How I need advice. How do you not look at your phone? Do you use it as an alarm clock or do you use something else? Not anymore. Okay, so guide me. Help me. Night. Look at my.

Multiple Speakers 00:20:00 Phone.

Multiple Speakers 00:20:01 Get an alarm.

Evelyn Ackah 00:20:04 Yes. Okay.

Multiple Speakers 00:20:04 I leave your.

Multiple Speakers 00:20:05 Phone in another.

Multiple Speakers 00:20:06 Room.

Evelyn Ackah 00:20:08 Here's another thing you got to know about me. We. I tried an alarm, but the light was too bright on it. I need a light that does not show up either in the night.

Evelyn Ackah 00:20:16 It'll drive me nuts. So do you. Do you have, like, a model that you can think of?

Multiple Speakers 00:20:20 Well, I.

Multiple Speakers 00:20:21 Have a kind that it like the sun comes up with it, you know, it's like one of those ones. Or you can hear bird, could you get your birds chirping, but it doesn't have that doesn't have the LED thing. So it only gets brighter as the time comes for you to wake up, I love it.

Evelyn Ackah 00:20:38 Is it that dome looking thing?

Multiple Speakers 00:20:39 Yeah, mine is round.

Evelyn Ackah 00:20:41 Okay. I know it's talking about it. Okay.

Multiple Speakers 00:20:42 Yeah, yeah, you can get them on Amazon, but yeah, I hear you. Or what I do sometimes too is I have one of those old kind of alarms and I just turn it over. I turn it over so I don't actually look at the clock. I don't look at the time, I don't know, I just need the alarm. Or you could stick it in your side drawer, like, literally it's just for me to wake up with.

Multiple Speakers 00:21:01 I don't need to know what time it is. There are options, Tyson was like, because once I look at the phone, it's over. All of that meditation and gratitude and, you know, I'm already like, oh, there's a problem to solve and I don't want to start my day like that.

Evelyn Ackah 00:21:15 Have you started to delete, like, social media apps by chance? I'm just curious. I've considered it.

Multiple Speakers 00:21:21 I haven't, I haven't, but I also don't manage a lot of my social media, thank goodness. Right. My my team, my marketing team does a lot of it. I. I'm on Facebook for maximum lawyer, but also some wonderful lawyer mom groups that I'm in. So I'm still on, but I'm not very active except for on those groups where I actually know the people and and also immigration Facebook groups. But all the other stuff is kind of mostly managed by other people in my office, which is good. And LinkedIn. I do some LinkedIn, but they do a lot of it for me too.

Evelyn Ackah 00:21:52 I want to know more about PCU. Tell me more about that. How did you get into PCU? It sounds interesting.

Multiple Speakers 00:21:57 It's so cool. It's called positive intelligence. And there's this guy who wrote this book, and he was a Silicon Valley executive, and he just was like, I do all these things. You go to these conferences, you come back, you're going to change your life and nothing changes. And so one of my girlfriends is a realtor, and I recently am going through a separation. And she said to me, Evelyn, it's been so incredible for my team, but for me. And I was like, why does this pick you? I've done all these workshops, I've gone to retreats, I've done meditation and yoga retreats. But she said, no, this is about. It's like developing your brain, your muscle in your brain, to be able to tune in and to calm your nervous system. And I really found that my nervous system, you know, was not where I needed to be after that big transition.

Multiple Speakers 00:22:43 So little things like you do these PCU reps, it's like gym reps, you know, and it's on an app and he's written a book. So every morning when I do look at my phone, it'll say, you have this PCU rep to to do or you have a focus to listen to you. And it's like a 5 or 7 minute thing where I'm getting ready in the morning and I'll listen to him talk about how to divert the stress and focus on your sage brain instead of your saboteur. So it's like, it's a really great program because you look at your saboteur, things like perfectionism that could be a saboteur or needing, you know, to control everything. And so how do you move away from that to just pushing it aside. And then your sage brain comes in, which is the one that is the positive, the calm, the reflective person that you want to be more of. And it helps with parenting. It helps with your staff, helps with dealing with stress. So it's been a helpful tool in my in my toolkit.

Evelyn Ackah 00:23:42 This sounds just like the principles like Jason teaches with like a CSF and relentless solution focus, not focusing on controlling things. All that. Yeah, but it sounds like you're just watering the garden more.

Multiple Speakers 00:23:53 Yes, and you do it through the day. So I even have like things in my calendar where it's like, okay, it's time for prep and a prep like just to show you it could be something like this. You're just kind of closing your eyes and you just feeling the little ridges on your fingers for like a minute, and you just really don't think about what you have to do or anything else. And then you can do something like this where you're just feeling it's all sensory. There are different ways to do it. It can be sensory. It could be tightening up for a minute and just letting it go. And it just is that sense of reset through the day, as opposed to I'm going to meditate for an hour and then I go up there and, and I'm jackass all day long, but I meditate for an hour.

Multiple Speakers 00:24:34 This is following you through the day where you might do five PQ reps, or just if you need it before you have a meeting. Kind of setting that mindset before you go in. So you're bringing that sage, calm, loving energy as opposed to like, okay.

Multiple Speakers 00:24:50 Let's go everybody.

Multiple Speakers 00:24:51 You know. And immediately you walk into a meeting like that and it changes and shifts everybody else's mood. So I've been working on that. I'm not perfect, but I'm working on it.

Evelyn Ackah 00:24:59 So I will say this before. So Jason doesn't kill me. He does. He believes in watering it just it's more of like self-guided sounds like with the app. That's what I'm talking about with watering it. It's kind of it. It water, it forces you to kind of water it more often.

Multiple Speakers 00:25:12 It kind of does. It pops up, you know, I can ignore it, which I do sometimes, but at least it's also I had to put it in my calendar through the day, just that five minutes, because if not, I'm not looking at my phone all day long, so at least it pops up in my calendar.

Multiple Speakers 00:25:25 It's time to do a pick up.

Evelyn Ackah 00:25:26 What are your thoughts on work life balance? Is it a real thing or is it not a real thing?

Multiple Speakers 00:25:30 I think it varies through your life and in your business. You know, I think that there are times like this year I feel like I've had better balance and other years I haven't.

Evelyn Ackah 00:25:42 Hold on a second. So that's interesting, you said, because you're going through a transition right now, and we'll get to that in a second, because I want to talk about how it affects your business. But explain to what that how how that's possible that you've had more balance whenever you're going through such a big change.

Multiple Speakers 00:26:01 Well, I've been spending more time with my kids and, you know, they're the priority. So I think it makes me more efficient at work because I'm spending more time with them as a single parent again. And that's their my priority, their volleyball, their all their activities, you know, and I'm doing it by myself. So yes, I have like a housekeeper lady who helps us a few hours every day helps driving because I can't be in two places at once.

Multiple Speakers 00:26:24 But I really have been focusing on taking care of myself so I can better take care of them. So yeah, I feel like when I'm at work, I'm at work, but I, I'm much more regimented about my time to to leave and spending also working from home more just to be around more. It's important. So I feel like what you focus on expands. And if I sat at work, I could sit at work for 18 hours a day. But I'm being more efficient, I think, because life is less stressful and I'm able to just go home and be with them and then, yeah, if they get they go to bed, I might do a little bit of work, but I've actually been working less. I have increased my team and I finally found my unicorn, a senior immigration lawyer who is just killing it. So it's definitely freed me up to not be the one that knows everything.

Evelyn Ackah 00:27:15 So I'm going to go into this topic. I'm not going to go deep. I'm not going to get any of the details, but but the reason why I want to know about this is because it's my understanding that your husband was pretty crucial to the running of the firm at some point.

Evelyn Ackah 00:27:29 Or was these considered?

Multiple Speakers 00:27:32 For about a year, I think during Covid, when nobody was working in the office, I hired him to, you know, to help me. And it worked for a year. And then I was just like, it's too much. You know, I feel like it was more important to have a happy marriage than than to have a successful business and not be happy at home. So I transitioned him and, you know, he agreed. But it was it was a bit of a transition out. So he ended up working elsewhere, doing what he loves consulting. And I think that was the better thing.

Evelyn Ackah 00:28:03 Can you talk about maybe this is more for like talking to people that are considering a similar move where you're thinking about bringing in a spouse because I, you know, Amy's in here. She's I think it's been great. Yeah, yeah. Because I've talked about that a lot on the, on the show. But I wonder, can you think about maybe some of the mistakes maybe you all had made that people could avoid?

Multiple Speakers 00:28:21 I think the difference between you and Amy are your both lawyers.

Evelyn Ackah 00:28:24 Well, Amy is not a lawyer.

Multiple Speakers 00:28:25 Oh, I thought she was a lawyer. I thought you were a lawyer.

Evelyn Ackah 00:28:27 Amy's not a lawyer. No.

Multiple Speakers 00:28:29 So the other thing is, you guys have been married for a long time. We were literally engaged, about to be married, and I'd had my firm for ten years, and I was the lawyer. And I think those are the dynamics that really impact us. Was he wasn't a lawyer, and it was my firm that brought him in after many years. It wasn't like we grew it together. So I feel like when I see it working like it works for you and Amy, it's either you've been together a long time, you know each other well, you know, you know how to separate work at home. We did not. It was all new. And so we would I would make decisions at work, and then I'd come home and they would still be carrying over. And I thought, this is not, you know, this is not what I want.

Multiple Speakers 00:29:13 And sometimes, too, I feel like when I've seen it not working, if the woman is the lawyer, sometimes I think there's some challenges there. For some men, you know, whether it's ego or insecurity or whatever, the idea that they're not the one that's making the final decision sometimes can be a challenge to those kind of male female dynamics. And so it can work. I have a lot of friends who do it, and even if the spouse is not a lawyer, they have a solid marriage and partnership already before that transition. It's not. Or they started together, which is like from the ground up, we're in it together. We're a partnership. Mine was different. It was kind of parachuting him in. And after ten years of running a successful law firm.

Evelyn Ackah 00:29:56 Yeah, that that is tough. And you do have to have someone that is like makes the decision and it's they've got to be able to follow that decision. Yeah. Otherwise it's just yeah it causes a lot of issues.

Evelyn Ackah 00:30:06 Yeah. That's a lot to take on all at one time.

Multiple Speakers 00:30:08 It was a lot. And Covid like honestly it was a lot getting married and during Covid and running a firm during Covid and borders were closed and it was a lot. And I think I took on too much. And, you know, it didn't work and I called it.

Evelyn Ackah 00:30:24 So yeah, that's interesting when it comes to. So it sounds like you're the you said the balance has gotten better when it comes to the to the work life. Has that changed in any way.

Multiple Speakers 00:30:34 The work.

Evelyn Ackah 00:30:34 Life. Yeah. So you said like it sounds like personal life. Sounds like it got the balance was way better because you're spending more time with kids and all that.

Multiple Speakers 00:30:41 Yeah. Also, the kids are older. Yeah, that makes a big difference. My kids are 14 now. You know, and it was brutal when they were babies. I started the firm because they arrived. I adopted them and it was like I needed to. So there was no work life balance in the.

Multiple Speakers 00:30:56 I was like the first 7 or 8 years, it was just go, go, go. And so getting married did help. I think with that, having a partner, somebody was helping with the kids and all that. But it also added more complexity because we have different styles, different parenting, different history, different bonding, you know. And I think when you bring somebody into your existing family, it's not always easy to to create something different. And so I feel like because they're older and more independent, it is a little easier. But they also need you more. So I'm around more, but I don't need to be like doing everything for them anymore. So it's it's a different relationship I think.

Evelyn Ackah 00:31:37 Yeah. Has has the team had to pick up more of the slack because you've been going through this transition?

Multiple Speakers 00:31:41 Yes they have. And I told them right away and they have been so incredible. Like you know, it was not easy. There were some difficult days, but they were just all like, wow, Evelyn.

Multiple Speakers 00:31:52 Like, you're really you're doing this and we're with you. We support you whatever you need. And so there definitely been days where I would just be like, I'm going home. It's 2:00, I'm going home, it's 12:00, or I'm not coming in and just needing to take care of myself first so I could take care of the kids. And so the team has definitely stepped up and they've been so wonderful, Like the level of support have gotten and just their respect around how I've managed this through running a business, through raising kids. You know, there's been a lot of sharing and I think it's brought us all closer.

Evelyn Ackah 00:32:23 Well that's good. I want to ask you about that because did it allow you to trust them more too though. Like is it something where. Because it didn't seem like you've you've had any issues trusting your team. But I do wonder if it's taught you that you can rely on them more than what you thought you could.

Multiple Speakers 00:32:37 I think so. I mean, I have a great team.

Multiple Speakers 00:32:39 They're international, but I'm also very transparent. And literally the day I ended it, I walked in and I said, hey, by the way, this is what's happening. I want you to know that I'm going through this. And the kids and I were good. Everything is fine. I might be a little bit less focused for the next little while. So I need you to bring to me things that are urgent because I'm only dealing with what's urgent right now while I, you know, take care. And they've really, really stepped up and supported me, and they all just kind of embraced me with where you're where your work family. We're here for you, whatever you need. And so, yeah, I took a week in July to go to this hiking retreat in British Columbia. It was beautiful. It's it's called Mountain trek. It's a reset. And there's like, no technology, no coffee, which was a little hard, no alcohol and really healthy, healthy food and hiking every day, but also lots of like, the whole Nordic circuit of hot and cold and ice water and all that and massages and body work and and just being out in nature like tree hugging.

Multiple Speakers 00:33:46 It was crazy. It was wonderful, and it really helped me. And I did nothing that whole week. They just took care of everything. I didn't talk to anybody and I got to just kind of reset.

Evelyn Ackah 00:33:55 Was it one of the retreats where you literally didn't talk to anybody? It was like just a silent retreat?

Multiple Speakers 00:34:00 No, it wasn't a silent retreat. I didn't talk to my people, my team, my family, nobody. The kids were with grandma. No technology allowed. It was really great.

Evelyn Ackah 00:34:09 The caffeine. I feel like you'd get a headache. I would get a headache.

Multiple Speakers 00:34:12 Yeah. That's why they tell you to wean yourself off the week before, which I had done. And I still bought Tylenol just in case.

Evelyn Ackah 00:34:20 Was it hard to to do the whole week?

Multiple Speakers 00:34:23 No. When's the first day? And the food was incredible. Everybody lost weight. It wasn't that wasn't the the reason I went. But the hiking is it's pretty intense, right. If you're not a hiker.

Multiple Speakers 00:34:32 I haven't hiked for a long time, but it was just beautiful. And you had different groups. So there was like some there was like 73 year old woman in the group that was in the Group four, which is the slower group, and then Group one, they're basically like rappelling. And I was usually in group 2 or 3, but it was just being out in nature. And I feel like nature is so healing and I got a lot out of it.

Evelyn Ackah 00:34:51 All right. So some people, they could go to that event, that event, the whatever you want to call it, the get away go for a week and you have the great experience. Great. And then you leave and everything goes back to normal. How do you take the lessons that you learn and what lessons did you learn that you can then take away and then using your daily life?

Multiple Speakers 00:35:11 There was even a nutritionist there. I did something called somatic therapy, which is more sensory and even physical. So I've found a somatic therapist.

Multiple Speakers 00:35:20 It's different from just chit chatting, you know, cognitive behavior or talking to therapists. I as I said, I'm doing more body work because I realize that sometimes trauma or stress, it's not just in the brain or the emotions, it's physically in your cells. So I, I went to my first osteopath appointment last week, which is a really different kind of modality. I've returned to acupuncture, which I'd also done when I was there. So they introduced me to a lot of different things that I thought, I want to continue this. So I'm doing that and I'm also what's the other one? Reiki. So again, these are all kind of like they sound a little woo woo, but they're also kind of helping my nervous system kind of come back down. And I think that's what I needed. I mean I'm not there's no regrets. Life happens. I'm happy. Happy. But I feel like my body still needs to catch up with my mind and my emotions around a little bit of the trauma of divorcing and going through that and thinking about your children and wanting to make sure you're doing the best for them.

Multiple Speakers 00:36:20 So that's carried over, and I've added an extra day to my personal training routine. Strength training is really important. I, I do it already, but we've kind of increased the weights and increased the the amount of time I go. So I feel like I'm and they what I love is they have like a month follow up and then three month follow up and six month follow up. So they want you to think about even your work life. They even gave us some strategies around how are you managing work. So I haven't gone back into this crazy throw myself into work. I'm trying to find the balance and keep the balance that I got from that experience.

Evelyn Ackah 00:36:55 Have you done any therapy on childhood trauma?

Multiple Speakers 00:36:58 I have.

Evelyn Ackah 00:36:59 I had heard, and I wonder if this is true. I'd heard. I think I saw it on a video. But how? If you have a trauma, let's say you have trauma at five. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Sometimes your emotions will get stuck at that age, whatever it was.

Evelyn Ackah 00:37:11 So whenever you have a certain let's say it's anger, let's say you experience a really traumatic event and it made you really angry and you become angry. Now it usually relates back to like when you were five, when you. So have you found that to be true?

Multiple Speakers 00:37:22 I've done I did that work when I was in my 20s. Like, you know, because I love my family. But Africans historically are not really big on like modern Western therapy. It's not a thing. Like we're just kind of your family and your community support you. And I was reaching out during law school because I felt like I had some stuff to work through. So I did inner child work in my 20s. For me, it was more around abandonment because even if you know why your family has left you, that's my trigger. That's my trigger. And so I needed to really process that. And I have to say, parenting again, it's almost like you get an opportunity to re parent yourself. It has been the most incredible experience watching life through.

Multiple Speakers 00:38:07 You know, you know how it is your children's eyes, but also thinking, how are you going to traumatize them? What are you going to give them that's different from what you got? Of course you want to make sure we always want to improve upon what we received, but they're still going to have issues. And so for me, it's been how am I going to parent in a way that is loving and supportive, where we can talk about feelings not in the way I was raised, where you didn't really talk about your feelings. But they know no matter what, I'm on their side, no matter what. It really allowed me to repair it myself. Also by parenting them.

Evelyn Ackah 00:38:38 Love that we're going to do. There's no great transition into this, but we're going to shift gears. And I want to I want to talk about there's been a lot of changes in the US immigration. Right. And if I were an immigration attorney, I'd be like, what is going on right now? How do you keep eyes on the prize? Focused in what seems to be a very turbulent time as an immigration attorney.

Multiple Speakers 00:39:01 Well, I have to say, I'm so grateful I'm in Canada, honestly, because I feel for my friends that are practicing in the US. It is stressful. I feel the stress when Americans call and say, I got to get out, I have a trans kid, or I have a non-binary kid, or we're a lesbian couple. I'm worried about some of my rights that might be changing or or I just want to have my daughter be able to go see a doctor and get birth control, like like I, I feel it through their stress. And so I focus on my team. We talk a lot about this. I'm like, we have to take care of ourselves because we're not going to. We don't want to take on that level of anxiety and stress. And some of it is hysteria. Some of it is people are emotional. They're crying like things that, you know, people are scared. And so in Canada, I'm feeling it, but not in the same way as lawyers here, I have to say.

Multiple Speakers 00:39:49 And I think because I do mostly professional immigration, corporate business, immigration, it's not that same, oh my God, I'm being deported like that stuff. That's why I don't do that work. I know myself and I knew early on and could never do family law. I could never do criminal law because I'm just too emotionally connected. It would be too difficult for me to separate. So for me, choosing this professional corporate immigration, there's a bit of a distance. Still, it's emotional and it's challenging. And you want to be successful every time because you know what's at stake. But it's not life and death. My people are not being sent to camps in another country. So yeah, I feel like the self-care has been increased this year for sure.

Evelyn Ackah 00:40:31 Has it affected the business at all?

Multiple Speakers 00:40:33 We're busy. We're busier than we've ever been. We're going to have our best year, which I'm very grateful for. But I'm also torn because I don't want to be busier because people are feeling they have to leave their country of birth or leave the US because, you know, America is a great place.

Multiple Speakers 00:40:49 It's just going through. There's so much division right now. And so we just recently moved up my my godmother, stepdaughter, Washington state. They're professionals. He's a physio. She's a naturopathic doctor. They have two kids and they just said, we're moving. They just moved to Calgary. And so I'm doing work for people. I know some of them, and it feels even more personal because I have to be successful. So there's that added pressure, like, oh my God, what if I don't get them into Canada? You know, like I have to look at them at Christmas dinner or whatever. It just feels like more is at stake now.

Evelyn Ackah 00:41:22 It's interesting because I feel like that only every case, it's like for us because like every case, like the, you know, like we're it's, you know, about an injured client.

Multiple Speakers 00:41:30 I think when it's somebody, you know, like I've immigrated somebody from Ghana recently too, and I know him. And if it wasn't successful, like the life changing transformation that I could offer him if I wasn't successful, it feels even, I think, more of a failure.

Multiple Speakers 00:41:47 Different. Of course, I hate to fill my clients and we don't usually, but it happens and then we have to figure out how to fix it. But when it's somebody you know and you will see them at dinner at your house. You know, it feels even more personal. And I hate working for family.

Multiple Speakers 00:42:01 I've actually decided I don't want to do it because.

Multiple Speakers 00:42:04 It's very stressful. If something goes wrong and you can't control all the pieces, you can't control immigration processing or whatever. It feels very much like I've let them down and I don't want that ever.

Evelyn Ackah 00:42:16 So it was interesting because I remember Jim and I talking about it was before the election, and he was he was he was talking about being worried about Trump winning. And I remember I remember asking him, I said, well, when was the busiest you've ever been? It was whenever Trump was elected.

Multiple Speakers 00:42:31 The last time.

Evelyn Ackah 00:42:32 Because he was worried about business going the other way. Yeah. And I and I was telling like he was like, no, it's going to go it's going to go up, it's going to go way up.

Evelyn Ackah 00:42:40 And it sounds like that's I think that that's true. My concern, I think, would be for immigration attorneys at this point, is that I feel like it's almost artificially inflated right now where people are going to start to staff up, beef up, beef up, beef up. So my concern would actually be on the back end of all of this. It's that and this. I think this is a really important business lesson for people where you might have to temporarily beef up. This is not a permanent thing.

Multiple Speakers 00:43:06 No it's not.

Evelyn Ackah 00:43:07 It's this is a temporary thing.

Multiple Speakers 00:43:09 Temporary.

Evelyn Ackah 00:43:10 Whether you agree. It just has nothing to do with agreeing with the policies or not. This has to do with from a business standpoint. My concern would be, oh, people thinking that this is like a long term thing. And I don't think that that's what's going to be at all.

Multiple Speakers 00:43:22 Yeah. No, I don't think it is either. I mean, like, we had our the first four months of the year were the best four months we've ever had.

Multiple Speakers 00:43:29 And then we were like, oh my God. And so I started looking to hire. Right. And I hired a junior lawyer because I still was looking for that senior lawyer. And then I found the senior lawyer. And then I realized, and I think another paralegal, that we had too many people, but also the junior lawyer didn't bring value at all. Like, she oversold herself. So I let her go. And it was because I didn't want to carry her to train her for a year or two for her to be productive, whereas this one with 18 years experience walked in the door. She could replace me on everything. Except she's not great yet at selling consultations like selling the file. So that's a that's where I'm coaching her. But she can manage everybody else's work. The paralegals, everything. So I did have to readjust. And I think we also hired another VA to help with marketing. And we were like, didn't bring that much value. Let her go. So that dip in the summer was like, an hour back up again.

Multiple Speakers 00:44:25 And I'm like, So I think using contract support is going to be how I get through, as opposed to committing to people full time employment unless we diversify, which is why I'm looking at employment, labor, corporate tax, how I can we're back. We've had this conversation. It's like, how do we bring in all these other practice areas that I refer to to keep our firm diversified.

Evelyn Ackah 00:44:52 Especially with with all the instability that that's one of those things where it could be. And I'm, you know, I've been a firm believer in having niche, like being niche. But there are areas where if if there's a lot of if things are in flux, I mean, you can use even if you just looked at it like an accountant right there. Busy season. What is it? You know, the first few months of the year and then it's kind of steady and they have to find other things to do, like bookkeeping and all that kind of stuff. But like, I would be okay with like a if there's any fluctuation in your business like that, I, I'm completely fine with having these other areas that help keep things as level as possible, because it's the massive ebbs and flows that are really, really dangerous.

Evelyn Ackah 00:45:31 And so how do you how do you, as the owner, prevent yourself from siphoning all the money out of the business because you know, things are good and then whenever things are not so because that's where you have to you have to plan for those downtimes too. So how do you like what failsafe do you have in place to prevent things from like that, From that happening.

Multiple Speakers 00:45:51 Well, I think putting a lot of money away and having a big emergency fund for the firm or, you know, to be able to operate the firm for six months or more in case things really decline. And obviously having a big line of credit if needed, but actually putting money away has been this is this last year. I've really tried to be more disciplined about that. And and also even just for myself, you know, having feeling the sense of security by knowing that, okay, we've got these six figure plus over here that if I need it, it's there. It'll cover six months or more. And it's not my money to touch.

Multiple Speakers 00:46:26 It's it's the firm money in case we need it. So that emergency piece has been really great to have not just it's not trust funds. It's literally money that we've earned that we've just put somewhere else. That's been helpful. And I have new accountants and bookkeepers that are really strategic and more CFO support, which has been helpful for me because I need the discipline for sure.

Evelyn Ackah 00:46:47 Is it a virtual CFO or do you have an in-person CFO?

Multiple Speakers 00:46:50 They're in Canada, they're in Calgary, but they're national, too.

Evelyn Ackah 00:46:53 Are they full time, I guess?

Multiple Speakers 00:46:55 Oh, no, they don't work for me. They're my accounting firm. And then they have their bookkeepers that also do our monthly bookkeeping.

Evelyn Ackah 00:47:02 Yeah, because I was wondering what your thoughts were like on a virtual CFO because I know they're, you know, multiple people have been talking about having, like, a virtual CFO or they, you know, work part time for the for the firm. And I just wondered if you had any thoughts on that.

Multiple Speakers 00:47:13 I would love to have somebody I've struggled to find, like I tried to find a clue. And in a few weeks I was like, oh no, this is not the right person. So for me, the ideal would be having a great CEO and maybe a virtual or part time CFO. That would be a wonderful addition for next year. That's kind of my my hope.

Evelyn Ackah 00:47:33 This isn't to criticize that the person you were considering, but when you were looking at that situation, what what was what made it a fit? What made it not a fit? What made you interested in the person? What ultimately made you decide not to go with that person for the call.

Multiple Speakers 00:47:48 I feel like people sell themselves so much, and I think no matter how many, you know, tests you do and you know, you've got your whole training model and I use some of it even I feel like people are not always who they are. They present, you know, and if they're not self-aware, it's like, I'm this perfect, wonderful person.

Multiple Speakers 00:48:07 And she sounded incredible. And she was. We seemed to get each other, but then she moved. She came into the office and immediately I found her divisive, and she was kind of like, she didn't have my back in the way within, like what? I was like, what is this, your firm? Like what it was. It was bizarre. And then kind of creating drama on the side. And I thought, this is not what we need. We need somebody who's above the fray, who's got my back and who is my person. And I thought she was and she wasn't. So within a month, we just ended it. I ended it and and everybody was like, oh, thank God. Because she made people feel badly about their work quality. And I was just like, that's not what you want. And somebody who doesn't even know how things operate, you don't walk in and just want to throw everything away. Take some time. I want all your suggestions, but give it a few months of observing and learning what everybody does before you start wanting to throw everything out.

Evelyn Ackah 00:49:02 I think that's smart. I mean, you I mean, you dodged a massive bullet.

Multiple Speakers 00:49:06 I did, I did.

Evelyn Ackah 00:49:07 That's really good.

Multiple Speakers 00:49:08 I've learned to, you know, I think I hire slow, but I'm still making hiring, you know, mistakes. I think this is it's never perfect, but definitely firing fast. Very much.

Evelyn Ackah 00:49:20 All right, so you. And if you don't want to talk about this because it's this is actually being recorded. You mentioned this on a hot seat. So if we can cut this part out you don't want to talk about it. But there was a time where you you had a bunch of influx of leads. Do you remember that. Can we talk about that.

Multiple Speakers 00:49:35 Yeah. Yeah I remember.

Evelyn Ackah 00:49:36 That. Okay. So you had the massive influx of leads and it was causing a bunch of issues with the firm. Can you talk a little bit because I think that's a valuable lesson that that people, they may not realize the downside of having an influx of leads.

Evelyn Ackah 00:49:50 So can we talk about that a little bit?

Multiple Speakers 00:49:51 Yeah. I mean, I remember I was having so many leads, but then we weren't converting them, which was stressing me out. And then we if we were converting them, we had a lot of work. And I was worrying about the production side of things too, because the back side didn't necessarily we didn't have as many people as we needed. So it was it's not always perfect. But then for me, it made me realize that the volume of leads, they were not good leads, you know, some of them, right? And needing to narrow the marketing to try to improve the quality of leads is more important than the volume of leads. So I've learned that the hard way, because you spend a lot of money and you're like, this is crap, why am I wasting my staff's time going through all of these people that will never purchase our legal services? So I've definitely worked on that. It's not perfect, but we've got a great marketing provider.

Multiple Speakers 00:50:46 Externally, her people are great and also we have two. So which means that they do different things and we have the Google people and we really are working on PPC and really a, B testing as much as possible and dealing with all the changes in AI and the algorithms and everything. So we've been just pivot, pivot, pivot test, test, test. And it's been really helpful.

Evelyn Ackah 00:51:09 Going back, would you have done it the same way and then tweaked it after the influx of leads? Or would you have tweaked it before launching the platform or the not the marketing campaign?

Multiple Speakers 00:51:21 I think I would have tweaked it more. I think it's important, like it's not my strength in the sense that it's not what I do for a living. You trust your providers? And one thing I did do this year is I brought in a fractional CMO for three months, and he is like, he was the one that was having the conversations with those two external agencies and really letting them know he was watching and that he was checking everything and he was giving feedback and and they talked the same language, you know, whereas for us, we don't know what you're talking about.

Multiple Speakers 00:51:53 And I feel like that was the most worthwhile three months of money spent because he's no longer with us. But they know we've cleaned up a lot. And I think if you can find that person who can give that audit perspective and really be like, we don't want volume, we want qualified leads that will convert not just a bunch of leads. People calling it saves you a lot of time and money. I wasted a lot of money, I would say.

Evelyn Ackah 00:52:21 Why only the three months?

Multiple Speakers 00:52:22 Well, it was a short term contract for the him to be able to talk to all of our people and really kind of get them to justify what they're doing and to cut through the bullshit and make sure that what they were doing was effective. And so we did some tweaking every month, and we met and he talked to them. But also I didn't want them to feel threatened because I didn't want to lose them. They're great, hardworking people, but we wanted them to know that we have a professional on our side.

Multiple Speakers 00:52:46 So if I need them, like the plan is, I can always call him in and he can spend another three months, but I don't need that person permanently. If you've got the campaigns going, you've maximized them. He's like, yeah, they're doing a really good job now. Like, we've cut this crap and now we're doing this. I felt like, let's just take a pause for a few months and then we can come back again and look at it.

Evelyn Ackah 00:53:07 It's interesting. If it were up to him, would he? Because. Because sometimes they will they will push not. I'm just general. It's on my days the, the all the virtual, you know, CFOs, the CEOs anyway any of them. But if it were up to him, would he stick around full time or.

Multiple Speakers 00:53:25 I don't think so. You know, he's he's busy and he knows we know that he's available. And I think if I start feeling and seeing a change or feeling like we're not getting what we need, I feel felt like his three months with us.

Multiple Speakers 00:53:39 He met with everybody. He drilled down, he questioned them. He had them justify he had them a B testing everything. And he let them know like we're watching. Like, don't be doing anything that is not going to be the benefit of this firm and Evelyn and her marketing. And so we did as much maximizing as we could. And so I think maybe in another three months we'll bring him back again. But I needed, I think, giving them a break where they don't feel like there's like this overseer all the time, too. I want them to know that we trust them. But we also were needing somebody who spoke their language. And this person has like 25 years of marketing experience and could say, oh yeah, they're doing a really good job. This is you've got good people. And even just to tell me, like these two vendors, they're good, they know what they're doing. That gave me a sense of confidence that we'd finally found a team of people that actually knew what they were doing, and they weren't just bullshitting us because, you know, we all get we all get those, they sell you everything.

Multiple Speakers 00:54:33 And they're like, sure. And I don't know what that means. He was able to give me that confidence.

Evelyn Ackah 00:54:39 I love it. If you'll give me his information, I'll put it in the show notes, because that would be. It's one of those things, like, I like working with good vendors, and I like to. We like we like to celebrate the good vendors and just punt the ones out of the bad ones. Get rid of the bad ones, because that's why we started Becca's list.

Multiple Speakers 00:54:54 I love my people, but I'm like, I don't know if I want to share them with everybody. Then they'll be too busy to do my work.

Evelyn Ackah 00:54:58 You know, that is that is. Why do you. Why is that a problem in legal. It's crazy because it is a problem where someone starts to get popular, and then they say their service just falls off the hook.

Multiple Speakers 00:55:08 That's what I'm saying. I don't want that. And I don't want that. I want to be busy and have my clients still feel like they're the only ones.

Multiple Speakers 00:55:15 Do you know, that's my goal is not to feel like we've got 300 files on the go, but you're the only file. That's my goal. And I feel like we don't get that sometimes from vendors.

Evelyn Ackah 00:55:25 How do you maintain that from a client standpoint? How do you make sure that all clients feel that way?

Multiple Speakers 00:55:30 We audit our files.

Evelyn Ackah 00:55:31 How often do you do it?

Multiple Speakers 00:55:33 We do it every month. We meet every two weeks on files, but we ordered them as well. Once a month we have an external like the lawyer. The senior lawyer does it. I used to be me. We do surveys with clients. We have client experience coordinator who calls the clients the files that are in process. So I love to know if something is I'm struggling with this portal or this is this tech. I don't like it, okay? I like it here it early on rather than at the end. And then you give us a shitty review. So she calls within a month of us opening a file.

Multiple Speakers 00:56:05 How's it going? What's your experience? Is there anything we can do better? And we'd love to get the ten out of ten. And you know, and if it's an eight, why is it an eight? There's something we can do. I get on the phone. And so it allows us to minimize the problems earlier.

Evelyn Ackah 00:56:18 The the client checking calls are so valuable, so valuable. People don't realize the survey is great, whatever. But the calls you learn and you can head off issues so quickly, you can turn a problem client into a great client, like just the biggest advocate just with a phone call.

Multiple Speakers 00:56:34 Absolutely. And I have like sometimes, yeah, we make mistakes. Things happen and I'll hear, oh I'm giving them a six because this and I couldn't get on the portal and I didn't like that. It took three days for somebody to call me or whatever I call those people. And I say, listen, I heard this. Let me tell you what our standard is. I'm so sorry this happened.

Multiple Speakers 00:56:52 How can I make this right? What do you need for me? Blah blah blah blah blah. And they are usually like, oh my goodness, I didn't expect you to call me Evelyn. Thank you. You know, thank you for calling, but I'm good. It's okay. We got it sorted. Did it? But it makes a difference because I don't want to hear it at the end. But, yeah, it's never perfect. You know, Tyson, you know, running a business is like moving parts all the time. But that client experience coordinator role has been fabulous for us. And it's that checking in through the whole process. So 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, there's a call and once the file is submitted, we're also following up every month and letting them know what's happening so that that communication is happening while we're waiting for the government, but I'm really looking at ways to even offer more kind of at the end support. And what else can we do for you? And do you need referrals? Here's our VIP list of our partners.

Multiple Speakers 00:57:43 If you need a realtor. If you need this, you need that so that they feel like we are with them. Even if they've gotten that first step that we don't abandon them.

Evelyn Ackah 00:57:52 The end is probably the most important part. There are a lot of studies on this about you could do. Let's say you get 99% of the way there. You skip the last 1%, and that's what they remember. That's what they remember. So getting that and that's one of the parts that we've got to work on like internally the it's it's it's easy to get all the other stuff set up. It's it's finishing the thing out and doing it. Well. That is the that's the I, it may be the hardest part I don't know.

Multiple Speakers 00:58:19 We're going back to like reporting letters and it sounds like I used to do them in corporate. I used to do with immigration. And then I stopped doing them because we say congratulations. I did always send you a little something, and I think it's important to be sending something to remind them of all the great work we've done, and sometimes they forget to.

Multiple Speakers 00:58:35 But when you put it in a letter and a thank you, but plus a letter that said, this is what we did for you, I think it'll help them remember what it was that they received. So we've just gone back to that.

Evelyn Ackah 00:58:47 Do you ever look back and celebrate your success?

Multiple Speakers 00:58:50 I do sometimes I do and I don't, because I feel like being humble is really important to me and trying to be. I celebrate the team's success. I'm so proud of the team that I've been able to put together, and they're proud of themselves, and they know that I couldn't have done any of this without them. And so I'm really proud of the team. You know, we recently had a team retreat. We brought people from North America together. So much fun. And I've been to the Philippines, as you know, to see some of my team there. I've been to Ghana to see so many people there. Like, I want people that are with us for the long, long term.

Multiple Speakers 00:59:25 But yeah, I think, I think my dad would be really proud. and that's really important to me. And he was proud and my mom is proud. But I think the kids know that mom's gone to work and they know why I work. And early on, when I was a single parent, I'd be like, they were like, mom, I can just stay home. And I'm like, you know what? You want that Nintendo? I have to work for it, Nate. Or you want that ballet lessons? Lauren. Mom has to work for it. And so the kids for me, that's the biggest piece is they know my business. They come to the office all the time. They know the team. They know why I'm not home and why I'm doing it so we can have great vacations and great experiences that I never had growing up. And they're appreciative. And I want I want that for them. That's what makes me the proudest, is that I can do those things for them.

Evelyn Ackah 01:00:10 So if you look back like ten years, like thinking about ten years ago, that's when you started, right?

Multiple Speakers 01:00:14 No, 15. I'm old man.

Evelyn Ackah 01:00:19 15 years.

Multiple Speakers 01:00:20 15 years ago. Yeah, yeah. 2010.

Evelyn Ackah 01:00:23 So if you think back to so 2010. So think about like from them to. To today. Do you think you've exceeded where you thought you were going to be? Is it below where you thought you were going to be, right where you thought you were going to be?

Multiple Speakers 01:00:35 I've exceeded because I don't think I was like, I started with my with my practice that I that came with me. And so it was like, you know, the number was there and I was like, okay, I've exceeded what I thought because I didn't have a big hairy, audacious goal I do now. But at the time I hadn't done a lot of leadership and business coaching, or I wasn't the biggest person dealing with finances. I wasn't good at it. So it's definitely changed my vision.

Multiple Speakers 01:01:03 And I have to say, like people with Maximum Lawyer and the people and other groups have been with, especially Americans, like, I think the American lawyers have really helped me develop because they are so out there. You know, there's like there are things that I do that no Canadian lawyers are doing because we're just like nice, friendly Canadians. And we're not, like, aggressively Building in the same way. So I've learned a lot just from being. Spending as much time as I can in the States and absorbing that sense of go get it, you know, be aggressive, you can be driven, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with wanting to do better and better for your team and for your family. So yeah, I feel like I have got some big goals in the next ten years.

Evelyn Ackah 01:01:48 I want to hear about some of those big goals. What are some of them? Just give me one.

Multiple Speakers 01:01:53 I want a big number.

Evelyn Ackah 01:01:55 Okay? You don't have to tell me what the number is, but.

Multiple Speakers 01:01:57 And I'm either going to buy another firm or I'm probably gonna or I will sell the firm. So I'm preparing the firm for both and the opportunity of of selling or buying.

Evelyn Ackah 01:02:07 Okay. So I was going to end on the, the, the question related to that. So I'll end on this. Would you ever sounds like you would, would you ever consider selling your firm and why or why not? So you said you sound like you would consider selling your firm.

Multiple Speakers 01:02:24 I would, unless my kids want it, you know, because, again, I don't want the pressure. I'm not. Not that lawyer. That's like, oh, you know, we have a family of lawyers and somebody's just going to buy the firm or take over. I don't expect that. This morning I was talking to a law firm client and they were for great business to me. But it's interesting, the the two founders, their children worked in the firm and then the the brothers and the sisters and the, you know, it's just it's like, wow.

Multiple Speakers 01:02:51 It's incredible. I don't expect that of my children. So I don't want them to feel the weight of that legacy. So if they want to, sometimes they'll say, Lauren especially. I'll say, mom, I'm going to take over from, okay, whatever if you want to, but I don't expect them to. And so I want to look at how I can monetize the firm as much as possible. Either I sell it to somebody else and it continues in a different name with the clients being well cared for. Or I buy a bigger another firm and make it a bigger firm, and then I have partners and then I leave it because right now I don't have any partners. So that ten year plan is real. I'm starting to really look at how the future will look. I'm 54. I'd like to know that I have it all locked down, and when I want to leave, I can.

Evelyn Ackah 01:03:38 I can't leave it. I can't leave it alone. I was going to I was going to end there, but I can't.

Evelyn Ackah 01:03:42 Now that you said that. Have you looked at the retirement age versus longevity chart I have? Oh my gosh.

Multiple Speakers 01:03:51 Isn't it scary? You need a lot of money man.

Evelyn Ackah 01:03:53 It is so scary.

Multiple Speakers 01:03:55 I want to live to be 95. So you know, well what am I going to do.

Evelyn Ackah 01:04:01 This chart it shows the one I'm talking about maybe a different chart. So it's let's say you retire at 54, right? You live way longer than if you lived at 65 until you retire to 65. And it it is. So it's like the inverse. So the the later you retire the the you die younger. What.

Multiple Speakers 01:04:21 I've never seen.

Evelyn Ackah 01:04:21 That. Yes.

Multiple Speakers 01:04:22 The later you retire.

Evelyn Ackah 01:04:24 You die younger. So. No. Yeah. So you get to celebrate. The more you work, the longer you work, the less you get to. To actually celebrate all that or enjoy all of it.

Multiple Speakers 01:04:33 But my view is, that's the thing is, my life vision is not about waiting to retirement.

Multiple Speakers 01:04:38 That's the thing. I think you you're the same. Are you kidding me? Like, my view is not like, spend it all now, but it's like, die with zero. That concept of that book, which is about not just waiting till you die to give your kids stuff and have experiences with them to do it now. So I'm very big on that. We have experiences we're planning travel to Japan, we're planning safaris. We're we're doing the kind of travel and experiences that we want to do. I'm not waiting because the other thing is, when you're older, you travel differently. You experience differently. I don't want to be on a bus looking, you know, in Spain and say, oh, they're Spain. I want to be able to walk around and do those things. So, I don't know, I feel like I could end up working until I'm 7580. Like, I love most of what I do, but I want to be able to choose to once a week, twice a week, be the face of the firm, wrinkled up as can be.

Multiple Speakers 01:05:30 I don't care, but but I don't. I don't want to wait and be like, okay, I retire now. I'm just now my life will start. My life is now and I don't think we're promised tomorrow. So I really believe that. And when you lose somebody unexpectedly, you know, traumatically fast that it just changes your perspective on life. And I think it's made me much more sensitive to time and recognizing we don't have time. So let's plan for it now and let's let's get it done.

Evelyn Ackah 01:06:00 I can't think of a better way to end. That's a great message to end on. Evelyn Akka, thank you so much.

Multiple Speakers 01:06:04 Thank you. Thanks, Tyson.