From #1 Ranked Fighter in the World to Flat Lining in a Hospital: Mark Kerr

The Rock played this man in a major motion picture — and after watching this episode, you'll understand why.

Mark Kerr is a Division I National Champion, 2x ADCC Champion, and 2x UFC Heavyweight Champion who helped define what it meant to be a professional mixed martial artist before anyone even knew what that looked like. But behind the accolades was a story most people never saw coming.

In this raw and unforgettable episode, Mark sits down with us to talk about:

• What it felt like when Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson was cast to play him
• How he helped create the standard for what a professional MMA fighter looks and acts like
• The training methods he pioneered 25 years ago — heart rate-based conditioning, functional training — that the sport has only recently caught up to
• The injuries, pain management, and how it all spiraled into addiction
• The night the cameras went down, and he was found unresponsive — lips blue, barely breathing — and brought back with Narcan
• Why vulnerability is the most alpha thing a man can do
• His mission to prepare and mentor the next generation

This one hits different. Whether you're a fight fan, someone in recovery, or just somebody who needs to hear that one thing doesn't define you — this episode is for you.

This episode is sponsored by Celsius.  Visit @celsiusofficial on Instagram to see all of their new flavors!
This episode is sponsored by Marek Health.  Visit marekhealth.com and use code KENNY at checkout for  10% Marek Diagnostics, Supplements and the Marek Health Guided Optimization signup.

What is The Strong New York Podcast?

Being STRONG is more than just how much weight you can lift.

The Strong New York Podcast is dedicated to inspiring you to become your strongest self- in the gym, in business, in relationships and in life.

Join Kenny as he sits down with his strong as fuck buddies and shoots the shit on what it takes to be strong willed, strong minded and physically strong. Season one features everyone from entrepreneurs and local business owners to doctors and industry leaders in the fitness and wellness space.

With over a decade of experience, Kenny Santucci has made himself known as one of New York City’s top trainers and a thought leader in the health and wellness industry. After transforming his life at 15 years old through fitness, Kenny made it his mission to transform the lives of those around him.

Kenny has trained some of Hollywood’s biggest stars, including Jon Bon Jovi, Liev Schreiber, and Frank Ocean, and has been tapped as a fitness expert sharing his training approach with Men’s Health, Men’s Journal, Runner's World, SHAPE, Well+Good, among other publications.

Kenny is the creator of STRONG New York, NYC's only Health and Fitness Expo. Strong New York is an immersive day of workouts, wellness experiences, panel discussions, and inspiring conversations with the best in-class wellness professionals, industry leaders, and change makers who are sharing their expertise on today's hottest wellness trends and first-hand experiences on how to optimize your overall health and life.

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All right, we're back with a very special episode of the Strong New York Podcast.As a fight fan, a jujitsu fan, a wrestler, this is an incredible experience for me, and I hope you guys enjoy this episode just as much.As always, we are sponsored by Celsius and Merrick Health, so please go check those out.But without further ado, a division one national champion, a 2timeADC champion, a 2time UFC champion.Yeah.Your accolades span so far, but probably one of the coolest experiences, and I'm sure you can agree to this, is when they make a movie about your life-who's gonna play you?Because The Rock played this guy.Mark Kerr.No, no.Thank you.Mark, it's such an honor to have you here.Thank you for having me.All the accolades aside, when somebody says, "Hey, we're gonna make not only a documentary about your life- Yeahbut now we're gonna make a movie about your life."When you look back and you think'Cause people ask this question all the time, "Who do you look like?"Yeah."Who would play you in a movie?"Oh my gosh.Did you ever think that the most famous- Oh, God, yeahnext to Arnold Schwarzenegger, is probably the most famous action hero of all time.Yeah.Right?Stallone, him.Yeah.You put The Rock up there with these guys.Oh, gosh, yeah.I mean, worldwide, heYou'd probably have to go to some mountain town in Mongolia to find somebody that doesn't know who he is.Yeah.Right.So when they said, "Hey, we're gonna make this movie.We're thinking about The Rock playing you."Yeah.Um, disbelief.Yeah.That'sWell, I mean, the first thing, uhSo when I was contacted in 2019, it was, uh, like one of those conversations where I'm like, "Yeah, right."And then, like, looking everything up online, I'm like, "Oh, wow, okay.This is his agent."Yeah.Right?This isYou know, and he'sIt, it just was like one of those odysseys that IYou, you never could plan for.You, you never could like write it into a story.Mm-hmm.You know, like, "Hey, when I'm, get to this age, uh, people are gonna, they're gonna make a movie about my life."It's likeYou know, as a kid you might think that, but as an adult you're like, "Oh, come on."You know?Mm-hmm."My life's not movie worthy."You know, I, I struggle with that myself sometimes, where I think about I didn'tI took so long to start the podcast, and I took long to do a lot of things in life.Even coming back to jujitsu.I used to wrestle in high school and college and stuff, and then coming back, I'm like, "Ah, I'm not ready for it."For somebody who's had so many a- Like, you've been through so much, right?You're a very decorated mixed martial artist.Why not you?Because when you look at the landscape of other fighters- Yeah, yeahright, you were, you really set the tone for what the modern fighter does, right?And thatSo I do take aI do take pride in the c- Like, one of the things I do take pride in is un- understanding, at the time, I was trying to set a standard that a standard didn't exist, right?I, I was trying to, trying to go, "Okay, how does a mixed martial artist look?"Mm-hmm.Right?In an interview or a press conference, how do they sound?How do they show up in the ring, more importantly, right?Yeah.And so I was trying to create this standard of being a professional mixed martial artist, and nobody knew what one looked like.Mm-hmm.And so- It was a whole new game.Completely.So it's like, okay, I'm gonna show up at a press conference.Everybody's gonna be in tracksuits, right?I'm gonna have a Calvin Klein $1,000 suit on, right?Mm-hmm.You know, couldn't afford it at the time, so- So, you know, IAnd then being able to communicate, articulate what's going on, all these other things.And so theyBecause at the end of the day, I'm wanting to be paid like a professional, right?Mm-hmm.I'm wanting to go, "Okay, I, I'm doing the work.Like, now I can ask for the money."So that was kindaYou know, in retrospect, I, you know, as I was going through it, I was going, "I guess this is what it looked like."Mm-hmm.You know?And- The other day, I sat up and I watchAnd I was like, "I'm not gonna finish the whole thing," but I ended up watching all 4 episodes.And I watched the Hulk Hogan documentary.Oh, it's really good.And growing up- Yeahyou know, 'cause we'reYou're a little bit older than I am.Mm-hmm.But growing up, there's, there were several people, like we mentioned the Arnold Schwarzenegger, Stallone and Hogan, and after watching the documentary, in one of the last episodes, Jesse Ventura says, he goes, "And that was it.That's when I realized how mortalFor you, as youYou know, you stepped out into these arenas.You were revered as one of the most dangerous guys on the planet.TheyI mean, you got the best name ever-The Smash Machine.The Smash Machine, right.You got this coolHow has mortality kind of wiggled its way into your life?When you, when you start to look at what you used to look like.Yeah.Oh, man.Um, it's hard to shake off, man.It, it really is.Mm-hmm.It'sYou know, in my head, I'm 27 years old- Yeah.the peak of, of what I was physically.Mm-hmm.Right?Um, you know, and part of it is understanding, you know, that, uh, that those are things that I did, right?Like, those accomplishments in that age bracket and stuff like that.Now I'm like reframing it for another phase in my life, right?Mm-hmm.Like, now it's this campaign to be able to give back, right?It's to be able to participate on that level and understanding, like, my strength and power is not in my physical physique, it's in my mental physique of, like, what, like, what I know.The knowledge base that I have and the ability to pa- Th- this sport is best taught by mentoring somebody.Mm-hmm.It's the only way it happens.Well, you can't be good at this sport unless you get your ass kicked.Oh, 100%.And what I love and what IYou know, I'm so happy I made the decision.'Cause as a kid, when I told my dad, I was like, "I wanna wrestle."And he's like, "Who the hell wrestles?""It's not a thing.That's a "I fell in love with it because it's humbling, it's aggressive-It's a respect, and I think that's the misconception that people don't get about fighting.Like, thereI'm, I'm sure there's fights and, you know, guys have- Yeahdisagreements and stuff.Yeah.But at the end of the day, I think what martial arts teaches you that, is that respect.What really got you into this whole world?And like howBecause you went fromGoing from wrestling- Wrestlingto fighting- Yeah, yeahis a- It's a big leapit's a huge leap.And people don't get that.You know, p- so part of, you know, part of what I was going through at the time, uh, in '96, I made aSo you do a 4year Olympic cycle.So after I graduated college, I had 4 years to pre- pre- prepare for the '96 Olympics, and I didn't make the Olympic team.That was the one that, uh- Kurt Angle.Yeah, Kurt Angle.And so, um, so I had all this training, 4 years, and it was like, what do I do with it?Mm-hmm.Right?There's no way to monetize it at the time.Mm-hmm.And then a guy's like, "Well, you can do this mixed martial arts thing," and not really understanding, like, what it was.'Cause again, at the time, there wasn't this clear picture of what a mixed martial artist looked like.So I go, "Okay," and that was the first kinda, okay.And then the training, I go, "Okay, it's similar to wrestling and some of the training and- Mmintensity in this, different moves.And then when I did the fights, it was like, "I ain't ever doing this again."'Cause they were just so- Brutalso brutal.Mm-hmm.I mean, to the point where nothing like that would exist today.It just wouldn'tYou couldn't sell it.You couldn't sell it to, you know, a housewife in Nebraska.Mm-hmm.She's not tu- tuning that in, right?But I feel like the sport has now become wildly acceptable.Mm-hmm.You know?E- even jujitsu.Like, youI'm seeing a lot more kids getting into it, a lot more women getting into it, which I love.Yeah, yeah.If I had kids, the first thing I'd throw them into.Both.Because one, I, I know they could s- to some degree defend themselves.Yep.Even if I had little girls, it's like I wanna know- Yeahthey can handle themselves.Especially little girls.Yeah.Especially.They can handle themselves.Yeah.They, uh, they have a, a general understanding of like, you know, physical preparation- Yeahand things likeBut w- why do you think it wasBecause it was, umYou know, a lot of people turn their nose up to it.Yeah.But now it's become a little bit more mainstream.Yeah.It misunderstood.Yeah.You know?Like, the whole context of, of trying to understand, um, something they never saw before.Mm-hmm.The context was like a bar brawler.Right?Well, that was the early days of it.Like, you scoop people off- Yeahthe bar chair, and you threw them in an octagon, and that's what you got.'Cause a lot of that, and just like you said, that's what it was.Mm-hmm.W- theI remember I was watching, uh, an old UFC.It was probably like 3 or 4, and the one guy gave himself all these accolades.They would like bullshit the accolades, right?Like, nowadays you can't do that 'cause they'll say- No, you can't.But this guy was like, oh, he's like a fourth degree fuckingThe people make- It's so corny, man.Yeah.But- And it was like a lot of guys were into, like, karate- Yeah, yeahbecause karate was like that carryover from, like, Bruce Lee- Yeah, Bruce Lee all the way throughinto, like, these '80s movies.Yeah.Yeah.So it hadSo ISo again, this is another thing that it's like a, in retrospect, I was trying to shatter the, the myth of if you're a 10th degree black belt, you're the toughest guy in the room.Mm-hmm.Right?Or if you're 6'9", 390 pounds, you're the toughest guy in the room.It's like, no.That- Yeahthat was just shattered, that whole entire context of like, "Oh, he's a 10th degree black belt.Don't mess with him."It's like, okay, that means absolutely nothing.Yeah, yeah.It means nothing in the real- You probably made it upin the real world.Yeah.That means nothing.Yeah.Right?And so, so havingYou know, it was breaking a lot of stereotypes, man.It r- Mmit reallyAt the beginning of this, it was, it was this incredible journey of like, you know, what you thought was true is absolutely false.Mm.You know?About what, what it, what it is for self-defense, what it is to be t-You know, when you got 150 pound guy, you know, taking on a 250 pound guy, and the 150 poundIt's like your mind's blown.Mm-hmm.How did that happen?It shifted the whole way people- Oh, my GodLike, when Royce triangle choked, uh, Dan Severn- YeahI rewound that tape, I don't know, 100 times.To figure out what he was- ToI couldn't figure it out.Yeah, yeah.I'm like, I'Cause it was just grainy footage, and I'm like- Mm-hmmokay, all of a sudden he's beating him up and then he taps.Mm-hmm.So, like, what happened?You know?And you're trying to describe to people going, "Well, now I know."Yeah.If you were a fighter now, what would you make most of your training?Like, because back then it wasYou were probably just, like, m- just like- Yeahwe were talking about.Yeah.You guys are beating the shit out of each other.Fighting to prepare to fight.Yeah.But now it's more calculated.Now it's, it's a little bit more science driven.Yeah.It, itYou know what?Thankfully it is.Yeah.'Cause there's no other way to, toI, I, like, I was just in, uh, Toronto a couple weeks ago with George St-Pierre, GSP.Mm-hmm.And he was the first fighter that I watched that put it all together.Mm-hmm.Like, as a fight fan, you're waiting for that person that put all these elements together, 'cause it was a really complex riddle.Mm-hmm.Of, like, how do you have the conditioning?How do you get through a training camp?Mm-hmm.Right?And that's where science comes in, right?Like, t- where my body's healthy enough- Well, the, you have to include nutrition and recovery and- All of ityeah, yeah.It's a complex- Mm-hmmformula of, like, how much of this and how much of that and how much of this.But GSP, as far as all the different arts and just enough, and then he transitioned it into s- his own style.Mm-hmm.Like, looking at him, he could strike, he could grapple, he could defend against takedowns.He could submit, and then he had a gas tank that was pretty deep.Yeah, yeah.You know?Well, I remember watching some of his early fights with, umWho's the wrestler he kept, um, who beat him and then he- Matt Hughes.So when him and Matt Hughes were bothThey're pretty good wrestlers.I mean, obviously Matt Hughes was- Yeah, yeahan incredible wrestler, but I think GSP was the first one to really'Cause I remember watching, it was always who could see scraps on the ground.Then it became this standup game.Yep.You know?How much were youHowWhat wasWhen you were in training camp, what was the division of training s- from striking to grappling?So s- so striking was one of those elements where I knew that I'm never gonnaLike, I was so far behind the curve for people that had s- uh, like striking's one of those elements that it takes forever to catch up.Mm-hmm.Like, somebody that's been doing it a long time.So my, m- my whole process was like, I still need to spend days on it, right?Mm-hmm.So I would spend a couple days out of the training camp, say, 5 days, you know, you're training, and the other 3 days I would spend a couple days grappling and then one day just going over defensive stuff.You know, like, if, you know- Block.Yeah.Yeah, yeah.It's just one of those things where it's like the elementBut a lot of what I started transitioning is gettingdoing functional training back then.Mm-hmm.And heart rate based training.25 years ago, nobody, nobody knew what it was.Well, I feel like in the '90s and stuff, you'd pick up a magazine and, because there was no internet, and you'reMm-hmm.I remember 1996, I was in my freshman year of high school, and I wanna learn how to work out and lift, and everything was bodybuilding workouts.Oh, yeah.It was like Lee Priest- Oh, yeahSo that's what we did to lift.Yeah.You know?Muscle & Fitness.Yeah, yeah.It was like their- Yeah, that's all you did.Yeah.It'sBecauseAnd again, that's thatSo I ended up hiring a, a guy in California, um, his name's Tyr Goodman, and he had a company at the time called Pro Camp, and he was training hockey players.Mm-hmm.And the hockey players, that gas tank of burst, recover, burst, recover, he's like, "Okay."He goes, "I can figure out something that's gonna work for your cardio system."So we would do these, these hour-long circuits, you know, and he got it where, you know, I could run my heart rate up to 190 beats, 195 beats a minute.And I could pull actively recovering- Mm-hmmin a minute, 40 heartbeats out.So all of a sudden I go 190 down to, down to literally like- Yeah135, 140.Just teaching your body to recover faster.Teaching my body, but you have to know how that feels.Mm-hmm.You have to know what your heart rate feels like at 195, because at 195 beats a minute, you, like for me- It feels like your heart's gonna- Oh, my God, I'm gonna throw upI'm gonna pass out.But he walks you through it mentally of like what you're doing, what you need to concentrate on to be able to pull those heartbeats back out.So like now you look at the Dagestanis and Maran and all, they have a gas tank.They have what's called capacity.Yeah.Aerobic capacity.Oh.Incredible, yeah.It's just off the charts, man.W- how much wasBecause I think a lot of these guys now are working on breathing techniques.Yep.And it's super important.Yeah.It down regulates your heart rate.Yep.For you, I mean, you guys probably never even touched any of that shit.No chance.No chance.Even though Bas- Yeahwas at the beginning of it.Yeah.Like, when I got introduced to Bas Ruten, that was one 0 that's w- at the beginning of when he started to really go, "Okay."'Cause he was doing breathing exercises and stuff, and I don't know where he got it from, but he's- Mme- even today, he's, he's got it to a point where he has a m- breathing mouthpiece you put in and it has different diameters where you can actually train with it.And it's less and less- It's less and less and less.Yeah.Because you have to control your breathing, and that's one of theHickson, same thing.Mm-hmm.Right?That whole breathing and it's like, oh.So, like, you can get him in a, in a hold where you're, like, think you're choking him out and they're going- YeahThere's so many guys who do that now, and I'm like, how are theyhow is this possible?Yeah.It's incredible.Like, it has to be- Yeahtrained.You can't just- ItOh, noyou can't just be like, "Oh, I'm this guy."No.'Cause the first couple times I, I've been in, in positions like that, it's m- it's panic breathing.Mm-hmm.Yeah.And it's just one where it's like, ah, there.Yeah.It's, it's, you know- Just staying calm is the most- Yeah, yeahimportant thing.Yeah.Uh, so going back to a lot of the-A lot of the documentary and the movie, where'd that all come about and, and how'd that happen?So the original documentary, uh, the producer's a guy named Dr- guy- John Greenhalgh, and him and I wrestled at Syracuse.Okay.He's, he's like 3 years younger than me.Mm-hmm.And so, um, I leave, start getting into fighting.He moves here to New York City, and he's living in the city, and he's a huge fight fan.Mm-hmm.And so he, he would go down to the corner store and get the Pride tapes, right, when they came out, the bootlegsAnd, uh, he'd watch them.And he was watching me, he knew who I was, and this contrast of like, "Man, he's the nicest guy in the world, and I'm watching him do this."Like, where's theLike, there'sThat's interesting.Mm-hmm.And so he had reached out to me and said, uh, "Hey, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna film you.I wanna do a documentary."And at that point, everyone before him who had said, "Hey, I'm gonna film and do a documentary," had showed up with like a Circuit City or Best Buy little flip camera with a little eyepiece, you know, and l-He shows up.I, I get him, uh, passes in Japan.Mm-hmm.And he shows up, and he's got 2, you know, $15,000 Sony HD cameras- So he was legitboom mic.Yeah.Yeah, yeah.I'm like, "Oh, you're, you're "And then as life goes, justHe was coming to film me.I was the number one ranked heavyweight mixed martial artist in the world.My, I think my record at the time was like 12 and 0.Mm-hmm.And, uh, he's coming to film something and he thinks it's this ascension toAnd it was this complete downfall.Yeah.So just, it just happened to be this whole convergence of, you know, of things.So I was gonna save that for later, but I, I wanna kinda jump into that because there are so many young guys out there who have dreams of being a fighter, you know.When I was a kid, I couldn't imagine winning a state championship.You win a national championship.You win the ADCC twice.Yeah.All these good things are happening for you.Yeah.You know?And obviously, like steroids and stuff- Yeahwas a part of everybody'sI mean, people act like it, "Oh, this is a new thing now."It's not.It was a part of- It's noteverybody's game, especially in that because it was, it was so new.There was no real regulation around it.None.But what was the real addiction?Because youThere are so many great guys.I mean, I watch stories on pro athletes of any sport.Mm-hmm.And they all go through this point of, is it the highs and the lows?Is it the pain?What- It- What really got you addicted?It tu- it turnedAt first it was actually, it was, it was the pain.It was like you get a bunch of injuries that pile up.Sure.And, um, you know, part of what I was trying to accomplish with the Japanese is trying to make myself so indispensable that they couldn't do without me.Mm-hmm.Like, they put so much money and effort into building and putting me in marquis, so my biggest asset was my availability.Mm-hmm.So a lot of times you'd get like, you know, a huge bruise on your foot, which you know you shouldn't.You know, it's like, "Hey, I need a couple of days to ice it and heal it up."It'd be like, "Ah, screw it, just take some Vicodin or take some Percocets," or whatever it was.And it progressed from there, and then it became a way to manage the expectation I put on myself.Mm-hmm.You know, 'cause I could never live up to what expectation I ha- I'd set the bar so fricking high.Yeah.Well, I think, I think society or, you know, the, the media at that time was kind of pushing you that way too.In Japa- in Japan it was a hugeI mean, there was so much print magazine, and blogs were just starting to come out.Mm-hmm.And it was like one of those things they say is like, "Never read your press clippings," right?Or never readSo blogs back then were likeSo, uh, I fought Hugo Duarte, right?Mm-hmm.In, in, uh, Tokyo Dome, and, uh, the fight went like 23 minutes.And prior to that, all my fights were like one minute, 2 minute, one minute, 2 minute.So I'm reading this blog, and this blog is like, "Oh, Kerr's so bloated on steroids that he can't fight more than 2 minutes.That's why all his fights last"And this fight happened.And I deliberately stay in the ring.And Bas Rutten's in the corner.He was furious with me, 'cause there's a couple times during it where I could have finished the fight- Mmand just drug it on to go, "Yeah, I can't go, I can't go more than a minute?"I go, "I can go all day, bro."Yeah.Like, and he's like, "That's the stupidest thing in the world."To drag a fight out.'Cause the, it's, the fight's just in and out.Yeah.If it takes one second, takes one second.Yeah, why would you want a fight to be longer?Oh, my God, and it turned into a point where I'm, where I'm in it and I'm like, "Ah, this was a mistake."Yeah.Because I just, i- it's one where it's like he eventually dives out of the ring, dives out of the ring, and they're like, "Dude, uh, we're gonna just stop the fight."Yeah.Let this guy go.So 2, 2 things I think about when I'm watching a fight, and I'm sure other people out there feel the same way.1, that first time you walk in the cage and they shut the door.3 steps up, it's called.Like my buddy calls it 3 steps up.Yeah.Right, when you take those 3 steps up and it, it's, um, it's, it's intense.I mean, it's intense for, for the reason, uh, like I was saying ear- like my every sense I have is just maxed out.Mm-hmm.Um, smell especially for me was one of the key things.Just the ability to, you know, I could have a guy standing across for the, where the heavy bag is over there, and I could smell him.Like literally- Oh, shitoh, like it's- Everything's heightenedoh, I could, it's, like I needed you to bleed.I needed the smell of the iron in the blood.It's just this, like a pheromone.Mm.You know, it's like this, like, like thinking about it, it's like, oh, that's probably not normal.But - No.Not at allbut it's one of those things where it's like- I would've never thought thatbut- But-it's intense.Yeahit's intense.Um, it's intense.It's vi- for me, it was vibrational, like I could feel- Mmthe energy of everything around me.Mm-hmm.And because you were so early on in this sport, right, you think, you look at, I mean, I'm sure you grew up watching wrestling or like, and like- Mm-hmmdifferent combat sports, boxing.You have a belt.Yeah.And they put that belt around you for the first time.Yeah.You'reWhat's going through your head?Because it's this fear when you walk in.It's a satisf- it's a satisf- it's a satisfaction.It's, it takes a minute to settle into that, right?'Cause a lot of that, like if, like in Brazil, my first fights, like after that was over with Fabio, it was, it was like, you know, I could feel my body just let go.'Cause I'm s- at such a high state of alert, you know.And then when it's over, and I'm still in the ring, and he puts the belt on, I could feel my body just letting go.Mm-hmm.And it's like I, I want, like at that moment, I remember wanting, I wanted to be alone.I, I just wanted to be alone 'cause I needed to sit, and whatever, whatever's going on internally, I needed to sit in it.And I was like, I wasn't alone.There's still ton of people in the arena.There's, like our locker rooms were partitions.Mm-hmm.Like there's no, it wasn't like a room.It was like just a fake wall put up and so it was like, it was this crazy feeling of like, like I just wanted to sit in it for a minute- Mmand I didn't, I didn't really have an opportunity to do that.And when did the, when did you feel, because your fights were short.Like your first couple- Mm-hmmfights were pretty short.But when did you first, you know, come out of a fight and feel the pain and how brutal the sport could be?Oh,Is it the day after?Is it that night?I, you know, the Vochagin fight, that, that, I remember sitting in it and just'Cause if you, like when you get done with something like that, um, when I, when it was a no contest with Vochagin, like I'm sitting there and you just feel everything come on- online.Yeah.Like you feel like, oh, my God- Because it shuts down- Yeah, it shuts downwhen you're in there.So, so you feel like, ah, fuck, I got a knot on my head I didn't feel, right?Mm.I got a black eye.And then y- you can just sit there and everything just starts coming online.And you're just like, "Oh, my God, man."Yeah.And then you go to like take a step up, and then you're like, "Oh, f- I think I broke my foot."Mm.You know, and it's like y- y- it's just this weird sensation that is hard to describe to somebody, 'cause you, all that stuff, like when you go into the fight, I sign up and go, "This is gonna be really hard.It's gonna hurt more than anything I've ever done, and I'm okay with it."Right?And you, y- that helps you kinda- That helps me go, and I signed the contract- YeahYeah, yeah.I'm okay with whatever happens 'cause I know I'll be able to deal with it one way or the other.Um, and out of the ring, it's like when everything starts coming back online, you're like, "Oh, that, I don't know if this is the best choice."Well, I think your story's so remarkable because, you know, you had the documentary, and that came out, what?What year was that?Uh, we're ta- 2002.It was filmed in '99 and 2000, and then it spent a couple years getting edited.Mm-hmm.And then couple years, I mean, almost 20 years later now- Yeahthey're like, "Hey, we're gonna make this- Which is-major motion picture- Absurd.with the biggest star in the world."Yeah, yeah.What, what's kind of, what do you attribute the, that to?Like, the fact that like you've ha- not, most people would love a documentary.Yeah, yeah.You got a documentary and a movie.You know, I think, I, I think a lot of it, um, like I have to put it in context for people.At the time the documentary came out, no YouTube, no Instagram, no Facebook, right?You had to buy a VHS.Maybe a DVD at that time?DVDs.Yeah.Right?God awful expensive, right?Yeah.So the context of it was it was on HBO, which back then was huge.You made it on HBO.Y- HBO was God in- Yeah, yeah, yeahin that industry, right?So for the documentary to make it on HBO was, was a huge, huge- Was that a plan or did they just- No, nomake it and they sold it?They sold it.So it's one of those things where they made it.Cost half a million dollars to make it.Wow.Half a million bucks back then, 'cause it was on, on HD film.HD film 25 years ago, high definition film, was so expensive.Yeah.Right?Now you can do it on your phone.Yeah, now it's like- Yeah.you have 8K on your phone.That's likeSo, so, um, just a convergence of things.It was right after 9/11.Uh, Robert De Niro started the Tribeca Film Festival.They entered it in the Tribeca Film Festival.People saw it there in New York.HBO saw it.You were there.So yeah.Okay.first year.first year of Tribeca Film Festival.And what was that like?Oh, it was incredible.There's still, there's still around the city, there was still this looming, like, just it wasn't New York- Mm-hmmyet, right?Like, it, it really, it really screwed things up, obviously.Stating the obvious.When 9/11 happened, it changed the whole dynamic, especially lower Manhattan.And so that film festival was like, "Hey, we're gonna bring business back."So there was a vibe that was trying to get this energy going back- Mm-hmmdown there.It was awesome.And then we entered it in CineVegas, and after CineVegas, HBO said, uh, "Don't enter it in Sundance.Don't.We, we wanna buy it."And so from there, it was interesting, 'cause they said, "Hey," uh, they, they saw it, and they said, um, "We wanna make editorial changes."So the, so the producer and director said, "Okay."They made the editorial changes to it, and they showed it to the director and producer, and they're like, "No."Mm-hmm."No."It was significantly more money if they were allowed to make editorial changes to it, and they said, "No.It has to be just as we showed it in both film festivals."And, uh, it was literally almost, like, 40% less.Oh, wow.So significant.Cut down, yeah.Oh, significant.Yeah.And so, um, they went with it, and it was one of those things where when it came out, it was like, it was, it was groundbreaking.I remember watching it as, as a kid.Like, like I run across stories- Yeahlike that, like you wouldn't believe.Yeah.Like, like somebody coming up out of the blue and going'Cause the reason why I'm saying all this is because it was the f- like, I was being candid.Like, like people now- You were very naturalhave a platform.Yeah.Platform to do it.Like back then, nobody had ever seen- Yeah.Well, I th- I think because the documentary was so real and raw- Yeahand it caught a lot of that human emotion that's actually- Yeahgoing on, and when you were doing it, now everyone almost has this 6th sense of like, "Oh, shit.Where is this gonna wind up?""What can't I say?""I'm gonna get canceled."Like, nobody's getting canceled then.Yeah, no, no, no.So you're just like, "Fuck it.Let's just g- do this."Itand again, it's one of those where in, in hindsight, it's like I, like looking at it now going, "I can't believe I said yes to that."Yeah.Like, it just, itthere was a point where, um, in the documentary right before I show, and I'm, I'm mainlining morphine, right?Uh, J- so John, um, I had signed a release, and John came to me.He reminded me of this the other day.He came to me, and he tore the release up, and he goes, "I'll give you last right- Okayof release on the film- Wowif you just let me in, if you just let me into what's going on."'Cause he knew something was going on, right?Yeah, yeah, yeah.And, and he said, "If you're willing to do that, uh, you'll have last release on this."That's incredible.You, I mean, most of Hollywood- Oh, no.They would never do that.No.But he was like, "Let, let me in," 'cause the idea was, "I wanna try to help."Yeah.Right?Well, I, I mean, I've, I've dealt with some of my own shit w- being on television and stuff, and yeah, they'reanything to save their own asses or to make a good TV show, they're like, "Yeah."Yeah."Fucking send him down the drain."Yeah."Who cares?"Yeah.You know, 'cause it's just one life to them.Yeah.Um, that's incredible.Yeah.I can't believe you did that.Mm-hmm.And so I talk the film crew and John into allowing me to try to, like, work my, like, do my own treatment at my house- Wowwhich was justUh, and 2 days, 3 days into it, um, I had stuff hidden all over the house.I was taking a bunch of stuff.They all knew something was wrong.And, um, I was just out of control.Like, they were telling me, "You're on stuff," and I'm, like, defending it like I'm not, right?Mm-hmm.And, um, and then, uh, it got to a point where I startIt was violent.I was breaking stuff in the house and, and, uh, they put the cameras down.They literally put the cameras down and said like, "This is a matter of life and death, bud.I don't know if you get it or not.You need to, you need to g- to go to the hospital."Mm.And then finally, I relented and I go, "Okay."And I'd been taking stuff all day, and I, I, I actually had a therapist at the time.She took me to the hospital, and that's when I didn't wake up.They found me in the bathroom unresponsive in the morning.Holy shit.Lips blue.Um, shallow breathing, like, barely breathing.And, uh, and that's when they revived me with Narcan.They handed me a Narcan and it created a whole nother shit show of stuff.But they put the cameras down.They go, "W- this is, this is not about this."Yeah.They d- they saw how bad it actually- Oh, yeah.Do you think somebody upstairs, I don't know what-religion you are, but somebody gives a shit about you a little bit?Yeah.Somebody's looking out for you, man.You know, he said, so John Greenhalgh said it yesterday, he goes, "Well, your highs are really high, and your lows are really fucking low."Yeah.You know?And that's the miracle of this.Like, I call that a g- like, you know, I think we as human beings simplify it and call it God, right?Whatever God that is.Sure.Right?Yeah.And I, I, I, I think now, like, there's this greater consciousness, and this greater consciousness is, has nudged and pushed me and pushed me along and held me back when I needed to be held back.And you know, I, for the first time in my life, man, this isI said this earlier today, it's, I know w- exactly where I'm supposed to be for the first time in my entire life.Really?I know where I'm supposed to be, and that's the miracle of this.It's incredible because, you know, I, I watched the movie, and I thinkI m- IHow do you feel about how they portrayed you in the movie?I think they didI think Dwayne did a great job.Yeah.I just think he did.Com- compared to what people thought he was an actor- Mm-hmm'cause I, I, the running joke for me was, how do you hide a 6'5" Samoan?You can't.Right?Yeah.So for him to transform himself where you could look at him and go, "Is that Dwayne?"He d- he does look like you, yeah.Oh, my God.Yeah.Unreal.Yeah, there'sI mean, they did a really nice job with that.But you know, you've been under so many spotlights.You've had so much success, but then these really dark moments.No.What do you think's next for you, and, like, what do you think you were meant to do?Because obviously, winning those championships, a lot of people hang their hats on that.Like I was saying before, like, young guys would love to have one championship, you know?But for you, you've had multiple, and you've had these really dark points where you were basically dead.Yeah.They brought you back to life, and now you have this other, you're, you have this other up at bat, where now you could go around and you could share your gift.Yeah.The, the wins and the losses.And, and the losses.Yeah.And I th- I, I really think, like, you know, for me, my mission is to, to prepare the next generation.You know?It's one of those where, uh, you know, the, I have the wisdom of some bad experiences.Mm.And I have the wisdom of some amazing experiences, and I could just share, you know?I could just tell them, like, like in recovery, it's experience, strength, and hope.Mm-hmm.Right?I can share my experience, my strength, and my hope, right?And I think that's part of my mission, is to pass it on to the next generation, um, to give the next generation, the ones that feel hopeless or unheard or unseen, to give them the ability to talk and communicate, to express stuff.I'm an alpha male- Mmand I'm talking about my feelings and sensitivity- Yeah, yeah, yeahand all that, 'cause without that, I'm not alpha.Yeah.No, it's so true, because I w- I remember watching the documentary, and there was that one scene where The Rock's, uh, in the house, and he'sI- it seems like you were, you were really in touch with- Yeahthat side of you, where most people would think, "Oh, this guy's just a- Yeahfucking maniac."With blonde hair."He's used to fighting and just breaks shit."Yeah.But, like, it seems like that's who you were.And that's why I was asking if you felt like they portrayed you in- Yeahto who you were.And it, there is a lot of vulnerability in you, and I think that's so great that so many people could see that, like, you're not just some fucking meathead in connection.So I, and so, you know, I know this too, is that the most valuable thing that I have in my life is not things or stuff, you know?It's connection.It's your story.Yeah.Connection.Yeah.And that's, that's howLike, I didn't understand all this stuff.My whole life I was searching for all these different things.They're incredibly important to me, the things that I've done in my past, but they're things that I've done in my past, right?The thing along that journey that meant everything to me was a connection to somebody.The ability to communicate on a real human level.Mm-hmm.No pretense.You know, I come a- emotionally open, as open as I can be, right?Yeah.And so, you know, trying to communicate that to the next generation of like that's the stuff that's important.Mm-hmm.I think we all set out and we put these, these expectations in front of us.And it's like, "I have to start a business."Yeah."I have to start a family.I have to win this championship."Yeah.How important do you think in your life was it to win all this stuff so that you could get to this point?Oof.You know, itSo this is, this is like one of those where I didn't do what I did for participation ribbons.I didn't.Yeah.Right?I, I wanted to win, right?I almost consumed by it, right?Um, and understanding like, like looking back on it, like that, that really wasn't the objective.The objective was the journey of the process of how you go about doing this.Mm-hmm.That's what I look at now.And the end result's the end result.Like a, like the saying for me is like, "Get out of the results, get into the action."Yeah, yeah.The results are gonna be the results.Mm-hmm.Right?Yeah.But the actions you take, those are the things that are important.That you should fall in love with.Yeah.ISo one of the best pieces of advice I ever got, and I remember being in high school football my freshman year, and my coach was like, "Take care of the little things, and the big things take care of themselves."And that's exactly that.What's the best piece of advice that somebody told you pretty early on that when you're like laying on the mat, or you're doing something where you're like, "This is fucking tough.I wanna quit," you remember that- Yeahone thing?You know, part, part of what I really hung onto was, you know, ILike, like one thing doesn't define me.One loss, one win, one bad practice, one bad test score, one bad relationship.Like a lot of times people get stuck in this idea of like if they try for something and they didn't get it, that that loss or win will define them, right?Mm-hmm.And it's like, no, no, no, no, no.You needed exactly that to get to the next thing that's in front of you.Mm-hmm.So this isn't defining me.Like one mistake, you know, it doesn't define you.In those moments of like, of like, "Ugh, I had a shit practice," you know, it's like, it's like, okay, that doesn't define like how everything's gonna go forward.It's like regroup, lesson, look at it.Okay, corrections.What am I gonna do?And then, okay, next day, boom, have a great prac-That doesn't define me.Mm-hmm.Right?It's like these things along my way where I'm like, you know, I can't let these little things define me, or more importantly, I can't let somebody else define me.Tell me what I am.Mm-hmm.That's my own self-discovery, right?I'm either gonna def- you know, understand that I'mThat somewhere in me there's this innate instinct to be a champ, to work harder than everybody else, to find a place where I can go and I can draw on and I can actually y- you knowThe, the crazy part was like looking at all the different stuff in competition, um, I, I needed to answer the simple question of like if you and I were put in a, in a room, and they said, "One person needs to come out," I needed to know I was that dude.Mm-hmm.Right?Like- Yeahat the core of it, it's like- That's what that dude isI need to figure it out, right?Yeah, yeah, yeah.And so I don't know where it comes from.I looked at myI scanned my whole life and I go, "I don't know where it came from."Yeah.But it's one of those things where it's like, you know, n- one thing doesn't define you, and you always can find a place you never knew you had.I think that's where, I think that's where pe- a lot of people get misdirected.I think certain things happen in life, and people lose.And then, like we were talking about before- Yeahcome full circle.Yeah.It's the comeback story.Yeah.Totally.People love a comeback story.They do.And for anybody out there that, you know, always feels like, "Oh, this is it.I'm over"- Yeahyou know, there were probably multiple times in your career- Ahwhere you're like, "Fuck, I'm done."Yeah.But you just came back.Yeah.You know?And now you're probably in the best- Oh, man, it's-prime of your life.It's, it's incredible.Yeah.I mean, I, to say I'm blessed is an understatement.It's one of those where, where, you know, the universe has put me in this position to be able to do things I never even imagined I could do.Yeah.And it's just, I have, at the base of all that, there- there's humility and gratitude, 'cause both of those need to exist in my life because- 100%, yeahthe humility gives me gratitude, right?Mm-hmm.And the gratitude, it gives me humility of like how grateful I am for these just amazing things, simple things.Yeah.You know?And so, you know, for somebody out there that's, that's face-planted and got up and tried it again, that's, like I said, that's the guy I wanna talk to or the gal I wanna talk toYeah.Because ev- Like, what is it in you that's- That-driving you?Well, that's the secret sauce that I think everybody needs.Yeah.We talk about it all the time, like the, you know, it's the Strong New York podcast, but I tell people the first thing I ever said when I created the company, I go, "Strength isn't just picking weights up off the ground- Yeahor beating the shit out of somebody else.It's can I pick myself up- Yeahat that low point?"Yeah.And that's the secret sauce.I wanna train that muscle more than anything else because you're gonna get knocked down a lot.Oh, God.You know?It's, you know, I mean, there's no contract when you're born that says, "My life's gonna be really easy-and I'm gonna have all this, and I'm gonna"I, I tell my son, I go, "Here's what contract you sign.Life's gonna be really fucking hard.It's gonna give me a bunch of stuff I don't wanna do, but you know what?I'm gonna do it anyways and I'm gonna keep trudging forward."Mm-hmm.That's the contract you sign, right?Yeah.You sign the same contract, right?Everybody.Everybody does.Well, I, I think the, the problem nowadays is everybody thinks like, "Oh, well, this should come to me."It's like, uh, no- But why?you didn't there- Nothing's pro- tomorrow's not promised.No, it's not.Yeah.It's not, no.Well, speaking of gratitude and everything, I don't wanna hold you up.I know we got class in a couple minutes.Yeah, thank you.Mark, I wanna thank you so much for doing this.I really appreciate it.I hope the audience appreciates it as much.No, thank you.Thank you guys, as always, for tuning in to the Strong New York podcast.As always, like, s- share, and subscribe.And Mark, where could we find you and what, what do you got going?Uh, you can find me at, @MarkCurrTMS, the Smashing Machine, on Instagram, and that'll lead you to all the otherI have a Linktree in there that'll have- Yeaheverything I'm doing.Well, you're just as badass as you are-a humble gentleman.Thank you so much.Thank you.Guys, thank you as always.Thank you.