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Welcome to Suite Independence, the podcast designed exclusively for established beauty professionals ready to transform their careers and build the salon business of their dreams. Hosted by industry veteran Kristin Kienzle, founder of Utopia Modern Salon Suites, this show is your essential guide to thriving independently in the beauty world.
Kristin, with over 34 years of experience, understands the unique challenges and incredible opportunities you face. She created Utopia to be a supportive, inspiring community where independent beauty professionals can flourish, and this podcast extends that mission directly to you.
Forget the styling tips; we're diving deep into the business and personal development aspects that truly empower your success. Each episode offers insight, inspiration, and clarity to help you succeed and build your career in a healthy way. Whether you're looking to grow your client base, refine your business strategy, enhance your financial literacy, prioritize your well-being, or ultimately own your own salon, Kristin shares the wisdom and actionable advice you need.
Join a community dedicated to empowering beauty professionals to reach their full potential, ensuring their businesses thrive and afford them the lifestyle they desire. Tune into Suite Independence and start building the vibrant career and fulfilling life you deserve.
Ep01
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Kristin Kienzle: [00:00:00] Welcome to the show. I'm so excited for you to get to listen to my conversation with Eric Fisher. He is the founder of Eric Fisher Salons, Eric Fisher Academy, and Prosper U. He's also a photographer and a platform artist, industry expert, and industry celebrity. So it is my honor to get to visit with him and share our conversation with you.
Kristin Kienzle: Today, I get to sit down with [00:01:00] someone who's not only shaped the Wichita beauty scene, but who has shaped the industry as a whole. Eric Fisher, founder of Eric Fisher Academy, Eric Fisher Salons, and Prosper U. So tell me how you got started, and most importantly, I wanna know, when did you realize that this industry was more about just beauty?
Eric Fisher's Early Life and Career Beginnings
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Eric Fisher: Well, you know, that's a, that's an interesting question. So, when I was younger, I was a, I, I worked nights since I was 13 playing in bands and I was a drummer and I loved that.
I loved jazz. And then I, I went to a music school for one year, North Texas State, which happened to be the best music school in the world at that time. They had 12 lab bands. And I thought I'd go and make number one because I was such a badass drummer, right? I mean, I was like playing since I was 13 in nightclubs, professionally, been around the United States playing.
So I go in, I didn't make the one O' clock band, I didn't make the two, I didn't make any of 'em. And I realized that I wasn't as good as I thought. Mm-hmm. [00:02:00] And my mother was a hairdresser, and I always thought, well, I could always fall back, go to beauty school. And I used to watch my mother work and it was just incredible because she, it was like a babysitter for me, right.
People would, would love her, and they would, they, they had such a heartfelt sense of appreciation for what she did for them. And they would hug her and kiss her, and then they'd get in their wallets or their pocketbooks and they'd pay her for it. And I thought, you know, I'm not the smartest kid in the world, but you get all this love and all this appreciation, then you make money.
What is better than that? Yeah. And my dad was military, so he wanted me to go in the military. I always came home. He's in a bad mood, big tough guy. Fought in two wars and I said, dad, I'm not going there. You know, I'm not that kind. I'm more like mom. So, I decided to go to beauty school and it was a wreck, train wreck.
Mm-hmm. I got kicked out here. It was terrible. Teacher said, you're only in it for the girls. And I go, yeah, that's about right. I went to school with 60 girls. I loved it. My 1500 hours was up. I'm like, I don't wanna leave. This is the most fun I've ever had in my life. But I eventually did.
Journey to London and Vidal Sassoon
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Eric Fisher: My dad said, you [00:03:00] know, if you're gonna be a hairdresser, you know, which I don't think he was big on at all, you know, being a military guy, he says there's a place in London called Vidal Sassoon. And so he was taking a plane over to Kuwait. I got a free ride. It was KC 1 35, 19, 20 years old. Drops me off in London and I got like, what the hell am I doing?
You know, I didn't have two beans to rub together. I ate cucumber sandwiches. I didn't have any money, I didn't have any wherewithal. But when I got to the school, which was, I'd never taken a taxi before, which was interesting for me. I saw people from all over the world coalescing this positive way, creating these tribal effects with hair.
And I go like, shit, this is not my mother's salon. This is amazing stuff. Yeah. And and it just, I just, I fell in love with it and I, I had no natural talent whatsoever, but I did have desire and I worked hard. So, you know, I trained and trained as, as Soons and then. You know, I freelanced. I I worked in London, Paris, Greece, Turkey, you name it.
I worked around the world. I got better and better. I still practiced. I still worked hard.
Building a Salon Empire
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Eric Fisher: [00:04:00] Then I, I, I, I was working in New York City and I met this girl 'cause I come back and freelance a little bit in Wichita. I cut her sister's hair. She came in and she said, we started dating, you know, when I was in town.
She said, should open a salon. I go, look, I barely made it through high school. I don't think like I'm smart enough. And she says, you're smarter than you think you are. Yeah. So, she didn't wanna move to New York and I had a job in Italy. So we went to Italy, we got married in Italy, and she said why don't you just, let's get back to Wichita America.
And I always liked Wichita. And so I said, okay. So we did, we got married, we opened our first salon. And it was, it was good. And I was smarter than I thought. And so I'd, I'd cut these guys hair like Frank Carney, who started pizza. Jamie Coulter's, a dear friend for years. He took three companies, public, these are smart guys.
And they all told me what to read. They told me what to view, told me what to listen to. And when I read it, I realized I got it. I could talk to them about the same subject material. [00:05:00] They love me, I love them. So they were my mentors in life. And uh, so. You know, we opened a bunch of salons at school and so on and so forth.
The Importance of Passion and Mentorship
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Eric Fisher: So it's, it's been a great adventure and I still am passionate. I still love it. Even at my age, all these decades, you know, I'm excited to go to work every day. Sometimes I wanna pull my hair out, but, but I still love it.
Kristin Kienzle: I can relate even after being in the industry for decades. I love it. I'm still passionate about that.
I think that's what you and I really connect on. We have that in common,
Eric Fisher: I think. I think so. And, and since I have a beauty school, you know, we have, I dunno, 180 students and I try to get them to reach the sweet spot so they can connect, so they love it. Mm-hmm. And they say you're successful if you love what you do.
Kristin Kienzle: Mm-hmm.
Eric Fisher: And you go to work every day, not because you have to, but because you want to, and you love who you work with, the people, the team, the culture of a company is so important and love who you do it for. And that, of course is our wonderful clients and. You know, and I'll say something about the clients when you, when you work, I have [00:06:00] clients that have been to me for 40 years.
Wow. They come in every five weeks. When you see somebody that often you do anything you can for them and they'll do anything they can for you. Mm-hmm. And it's a beautiful, beautiful relationship. I go to their weddings, funerals, unfortunately. Mm-hmm. I still have clients that go to their houses just because they're, they can't make it into the salons anymore.
And I still, I, I love 'em. You know? Yeah. I'm, I'm caring. They're caring about me and that, that relationship down deep
Kristin Kienzle: mm-hmm.
Eric Fisher: Is what it's all about.
Kristin Kienzle: Oh yeah.
Eric Fisher: You know, but if, if people don't hit that sweet spot with their career and they vacillate in indecision, they don't make a difference in people's lives, then they won't appreciate what you and I appreciate about the industry.
It's much more than just technical skills.
Beauty School and Career Colleges
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Kristin Kienzle: So, one thing I heard you say is you. Fell back on beauty school, I think that's really changing. I know my family was very disappointed when I said, I'm not going to college, I'm going to beauty school.
They didn't see it as a real career. [00:07:00] Right. They didn't see a future. I think I've shocked 'em, but it, it, the career was perfect for me. It was very flexible when I was having children. All the, all the ebbs and flows of life, it just goes with you. That being said, what do you have to say to that about just going, falling back on beauty school and how that's changed?
~I, I, excites me. I ~
Eric Fisher: ~think that this, you know, and I'll say a couple things. ~When I told my dad I wanted to go to beauty school, he said. Anything else you want to tell me, son, you know, must be gay. So I, I think, yeah, I think that, you know, if you, in every, every hairdresser in every movie's gay. Yes. ~You know?~
~Yes. And I, I've, so, ~and I love gay people, but I have so many friends that are straight Yeah. That are super successful. So that doesn't have anything to do with it. And not to marginalize colleges. 'cause I think any kind of edu education's a lifeblood of everything we do. But I will say. I think that college enrollments are going lower.
Mm-hmm. And career colleges are going higher. So I think why spend all that money, you know, and for classes that you don't need. And again, not to marginalize it. 'cause I, I'm a learner, I love to learn. But I will say that I think trade schools. [00:08:00] Offer better opportunities. Everybody wants social mobility.
They want equal economic opportunities in what they do. And I can't think of anything better than this industry to do it. I mean, we have people in my company that make a hundred thousand a year. They have health or we pay half a health insurance. They have 4 0 1 KI contribute to, we've got millions in our 401k.
They get paid vacations. The benefits are in the trade schools as well as if you go work for a big corporation. But in the trade schools you could, you, you make, you put forth the effort, you get rewarded. Oh yeah. You know, that's not always true in the corporate world. So not that I'm antithetical to all of that.
I just think that trade schools are the place to be. That's how I feel about it. Other people feel differently.
Constant Learning and Prosper U
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Kristin Kienzle: Something else I think you and I agree on is the constant learning. We've shared books we love. Yes. And you mentioned learning from your clients who knew more than you did about business.
I had that experience too. They see it in you. They egg you on and they tell you things that you didn't know. They connect you with people you didn't know that will help you get to where you are [00:09:00] today. I, I love the whole constant learning and that kind of leads us into, you have a school and you also have prosper you and tell us all about that and how that really facilitates the, the long-term learning and.
Eric Fisher: Well, and you and I are so like-minded in that educational process because learning to me is everything student for life. And we've always had learning organizations. We open our salons back in 1988. Every Tuesday night is class night. Every quarter we bring somebody famous in. I love that you still have that.
Still do it. Now, our participation is not as good as it used to be because. You know, and, and there's something that we say at our school, don't do it for me. Do it with me. When you watch TikTok or you watch YouTube videos, that's good. That's gonna be very motivational, but you're not gonna learn as much as if somebody's hands-on.
So I'm a hands-on, you know, do do it with me, not for me kind of guy. Mm-hmm. And I would say that, you know, we build our salons. We have four. And I saw that there was a weakness and not to [00:10:00] disparage any other beauty schools, but the quality of the student was not there. So I said, you know, either we partner, I'm gonna train your teachers, or I'm gonna open my own school and I'll be very formable competition.
And although I liked all the school owners at the time Sure. Nobody wanted to do that. So I opened, my own. Mm-hmm. And and I train all the instructors myself. I mean, it's, we have students from New York, from la, from Texas, from Hawaii, from all over, you name it.
Kristin Kienzle: Come into Wichita, Kansas, come into
Eric Fisher: Wichita, Kansas.
Usually the parents are, you know, in the industry. They want their kids to go to the best school. And, and, and I, I, our loan default rate 3% that, which is. Pretty, pretty good. Mm-hmm. All our key benchmark numbers, and I say that not with a lot of ego, but, and there are a lot of great schools. A lot of great schools, but I, I love my school.
So Prosper U was born outta the school because I realized that kids today, they need more than just good technical skills. That's a good place to start. They also need relationship skills, conversational guidelines. There's gotta be that exchange of energy when you meet [00:11:00] somebody. You've gotta want to go back to that person.
If that person has no personality, it doesn't matter how good they are, they might not go back. And they also need business skills. So, you know, what we wanna do was ameliorate the things that don't work and capitalize on the things that that do. And because I'm in the trenches and I understand this business so well, I've done books and tapes, sold 'em for years and years and years I've done.
Every major show for at least 30 years in America as well as in Europe. So I felt like I was qualified to, so what we did is we, we, I wrote the content, we did it like Starbucks, you know, 21 lessons, hour lessons. Then I hired the best, smartest consultants I knew and the best writers, and how do you engage students today that have an attention span that's like eight seconds?
So we knew all the content had to be extremely exceedingly engaging. We put the whole program together so that the student would have the opportunity to learn, because Kristen, today learning is hard. Mm-hmm. You're bombarded with noise from all over the place. Mm-hmm. Our attention spans are shorter.
It's [00:12:00] difficult, it's even difficult for me. Mm-hmm. You know, and I, I turn off the social media when, when I focus, you know, one of my favorite books is Atomic Habits. James Clear and I do what he says. And by the way, we make our students practice because what you do off the job affects what you do on the job.
So it's a two minute video they have to do, and they practice on a technique. And, and it's, it's interesting. If you practice, first of all, you have to have a good mental model of what excellence looks like. Once you have that mental model, which is the instructor's job, or our job, your job, once they have that mental model, then they know what excellence looks like.
And then you work backwards. And so we practice two minutes every day on a certain technique, same place. Same time every day. So they form the habit of excellence. And some students, some people will say, I was so busy this weekend, I just didn't have time. Well, I'm like, two minutes. Okay, so you wanna be great.
Greatness has a price, you know, it's like rent. The rent is due every day. When you're successful, you know, every [00:13:00] day you get, you gotta do what you say you gotta do. Your word is everything, you know? What was that book? The Four Agreements where the guy talks about the first agreement is your word. Your word means everything.
I had this young kid in, he's 29, last Tuesday's, this famous guy right? Worked with Annie Liebowitz when he was 22. Annie Leitz, a famous photographer, her day rate's a hundred thousand dollars. Wow. That gives you any idea. And he, he taught in Europe. And so my, my students loved him.
They loved him. I mean, they loved this kid. 'cause he is young. He, they couldn't relate to him. He's cool. Then I brought him into the staff, you know, and the staff loved him. And somebody said, how, how did you get so successful? And he said.
The Value of Showing Up
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Eric Fisher: You show the fuck up. Mm-hmm. You show up. People don't show up today.
They just don't, period. I get cancellations on shoots. I get cancellations on this. I go to a show, my support staff sometimes cancel. I just did this big event last weekend in Kansas City and I gave out the hairdresser of the year awards, a national event, and [00:14:00] half the people that won awards did not show up.
Oh my gosh. And, and I don't get that. I just don't understand that for the life of me. So you asked me one of the tenets of being successful. I'd say today you gotta demonstrate the behavior that successful people have. And that means showing up, period.
Kristin Kienzle: I've found that to be true. I work with the business coach.
I think you and I have talked about that and, and she's always presenting something to me. And every time I show up, I get the result that is predicted if you just show up. Yep. It takes you to places. It, it puts you in front of people you didn't expect to be. It just creates more opportunities just to show up.
Eric Fisher: Well, you know, and, and and again, not to dis disparage this generation, I'm a vesti of the past. So the way that I grew up, I had this big show to do in Orlando and I was playing pickleball and I was, I was drinking some really good wine, so I should have probably been playing.
But the wine was so good that we were all drinking and having fun. And I tore my achilles, well, I had a big show to do in Orlando for a couple thousand people. I was working with Rob, the [00:15:00] original, who's a famous barber, and the guy, Japanese guy named Akashi, three of us were doing it together. So I, I got some crutches.
I called the hotel, I said, put ice in the bathtub. And I hobbled my way on stage through all the airports. I did the show. I got back, my doctor yelled at me, said, what an idiot I was, but I. I show up, you gotta show up. You know, and people loved it. It was a great show. I did great work. I, I just wouldn't have missed it for the world, you know?
Kristin Kienzle: What's lost on them is just the grit. You know, they're, they're quick to say, I can't, my anxiety's too high. Yes. Or, or I tore my achilles. Yeah. They, they don't have the grit. I have a hang to push through. Yes. Sometimes it's just I have a hangnail.
And I think that, I know in me, when I'm looking at beauty professionals, the ones who have the grit and the push through, the ones that I can see Yes. Will go somewhere and be successful.
Eric Fisher: I think to your point, there's, a lack of intrinsic motivation mm-hmm. With young people, not just in our industry.
But in all industries, I hear about this in the medical [00:16:00] school or any field. And I don't know why that is. 'cause the way you, you and I grew up was, was, again, a little different to, to this. But you know, I tell all my students, Hey guys, I know, there's a great book out called The Anxious Generation, where they talk about anxiety, depression, self-mutilation, suicides.
Mm-hmm. You know, tripled since, since the iPhone came out, you know, largely due to Oh yeah. To social media, media. And, and I can, I can, you know, be empathetic to that. And I understand that. 'cause I, I have, I couldn't have survived it. No. I, there was cameras back in our day. ~Oh yeah, ~
Kristin Kienzle: ~yeah. You know, right. It, it was so different.~
~But, well, to be clear, ~there were cameras. We're not that old. Right, right. There were cameras, they just weren't on everybody's hand. I know. In everybody's hands in the project. And that's why
Eric Fisher: photography's been democratized. Everybody's a photographer, you know? Yes. ~Have the work sucks, but they think they're great.~
~But~
Kristin Kienzle: yeah.
Eric Fisher: Anyway, I tell my students this, I say. You know, you're gonna fall on your ass. Not everybody's gonna love you. Mm-hmm. But you can't go in the back room and cry about it. Yep. You gotta be proactive. You gotta understand failure is so important. When you're in your comfort zone, you're never gonna fail, but you're not growing.
You're staying right with what [00:17:00] you know. When you exceed that level of competency and it forces you to learn and it's uncomfortable, you are gonna fail. But that's where you learn the biggest breakthroughs with. Humans come with failure, not with success. I mean, Reed Thomas Edison's biography, it's, it's amazing.
Or Reed, Elon Musk. I just finished it. It's amazing how many times they fail and they fail and they fail and they fail. But the determination, in fact, Tom Brady's speech for graduation speech was amazing. The goat the best, you know, it was 200th and 80th and the draft. He didn't even get to play hardly in at Michigan when he was there.
And now he's the best and he's the best because he didn't give up. He kept going, he practiced and he didn't go home and, and get a Bud Light lime and eat, lay's potato chips. He practiced, he watched game film. He, he worked his ass off to be successful. And, and, and I'm not saying that that's bad. I'm just saying that that's good.
I'm saying, you know, [00:18:00] kids that wanna work life balance, it's, it's, it's difficult. Mm-hmm. They want freedom, work life balance. It's not gonna happen until you pay your dues. It's like a merry-go-round. And this is what I tell my students, you know, it's, it's like a merry-go-round. You push, you push, you push, then you can jump on board and you can ride for a little bit, but you gotta push that damn thing first.
Yeah. And it's not gonna push itself.
Kristin Kienzle: And you gotta keep pushing. You gotta, you have to keep pushing you. It's gonna slow down. You gotta give it another chef. And you know, when you, a sense, that's a great analogy. A but you
Eric Fisher: have a sense of purpose to your life. It gives you a reason to get up in the mornings, like icky guy that Japanese talk about.
And you reach that sweet spot where you make people look good. You make people feel good about what they're doing. It makes you feel good about who you are and your contribution to society and what you're doing for other people. I mean, I love that. I love my students that are dnt and shy and, and they've riddled with anxiety.
And I teach 'em something or they, I amazing instructors and they teach 'em something and their life changes, their perception of [00:19:00] society changes. You know, they can look at you and say, oh, you look great, but define your brows. Or, you know, you should blend your eyeliner a little bit with a, with a, use this, this tapered brush in the same color as a pencil.
Or you should put some highlights on your face to make your skin tones look better. You know, this is what being an intimate professional is all about. It's about having the capabilities to make those changes. And when I see my students grow like that with confidence, I grow. 'cause they're my legacy.
It makes me feel so good about, about what they're achieving.
Kristin Kienzle: Yeah, so as we come from a different generation than the people that you work with, primarily you're working with 18, 19, 20 year olds in, in your schools and young people in your salons. My salons are filled with, we really have a pretty wide age RA age range, but we do have a lot of younger folks.
I think something that helps keep you and I relevant is that we learn to get into their mindset, and I know you work especially hard on that. We've talked a lot about [00:20:00] that, trying to figure out where it is they're coming from. Yeah. And understanding that they're not gonna do what we did to get here, you know, in the right, in the nineties, I, you know, six days a week.
Yeah. Every Saturdays weren't an option. 10 hour days were a minimum. You just did it. That's what you do. Nobody's gonna hand you a clientele and, you know, $600 a day. But I think that maintaining that relevancy for us with them is super important. And I know you focus a lot on that. Tell us about what you do to really, to, to balance their mindset with what you know to be true and how you influence them with your, your values and the things that have gotten you where you are.
Empathy and Understanding in Education
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Eric Fisher: That's really good. Mm-hmm. And, and I think this group of people, it's not that they don't respect you, but they don't really coalesce with authority that much. Mm. They don't care who you are. They just want to know what you're gonna do for them and which is not bad.
It's just the way it is. Mm-hmm. And, and most, I will tell you that most people wanna be good. Most of these students want [00:21:00] to be good. And if you take a deep dive and, and our generation, I just, I worked hard. I, I didn't think my parents raised me with benign neglect. They, I just did it, you know?
Mm-hmm. It was just the way it was. My dad dropped me off in London and when I'm 19, and I said, what do I do now, daddy? He said, now you're a man. You'll figure it out. It scared me to death, but, I didn't have anxiety about it. I just did it. So I think when people wanna be good, they wanna learn.
There's a reason why they can't. And I think a good instructor builds a, a, a development plan or performance plan for them understanding their constraints. And it could be anything. It could be, Hey, I've got a second job, I'm exhausted. Mm-hmm. I, I'm sorry I didn't get it. It's not that I don't want to get it, but I'm tired 'cause I, I work until two in the morning as a waitress or I've got a learning disability.
Mm-hmm. You know, I've got anxiety and once the instructor understands that they can develop a plan that's more intimate just for that individual. So you
Kristin Kienzle: go in with empathy?
Eric Fisher: Empathy, yeah. It used to be you do something bad. Why'd you do that? And here, [00:22:00] here's the punitive measure. Mm-hmm. Now it's why'd you do that?
How do you feel about what you did? Let me tell you how I feel about what you did and the people that got affected by what you did. Now let's work on a plan so that doesn't happen again. Let's sit down together. So again, I'm not doing it for you, I'm doing it with you. It gives you time to reflect on your past behavior and your past experience.
And most people during that reflection process have kind of an awakening. So I think to your point. The truth lies between being permissive and being punitive. If you're too punitive, they're gonna take umbrage at what you're saying.
They're not gonna respect you. You've lost them, and they're, they're gonna be shamed by what you said to them. If you're too permissive, the behavior's just gonna continue. But, but if you can eat that sweet spot where they're reflective, they understand why they did that, and you understand that they have a learning disability.
Mm-hmm. You know, they have a mental challenge. Whatever that happens to be, one outta five do, and I don't know what, or maybe they're working late or maybe they have an abusive [00:23:00] family that they're dealing with and they can't focus in on, you know, whatever keeps 'em from doing what they're doing.
And that's what you have to understand that you have when instructors sign up for beauty school, it's like, I don't wanna be a therapist. I, I I don't wanna do that. But you gotta be a little of that if you want to be successful. Mm-hmm. And you know, you, you, you've gotta do your best for your students.
You, you've got to, that's your responsibility. You can teach 'em all the technical skills in the world, but if they don't, if they don't trust you and they don't believe in you and you're not empathetic to them, then you're gonna lose them, you know, and they're gonna drop out. They're gonna, not have a good career or whatever.
Kristin Kienzle: So I wanna know what motivated you or inspired you to start Prosper U?
Eric Fisher: Well, Prosper U is just so dynamic and I love it. And I will say I've got a great team down there led by Aaron Rogers. We have over well over 20,000 students at this very minute using our course.
We have an app and we're in 37 states, so I'm really proud. Everything we've done there. I think it's just the [00:24:00] recognizing that relationship skills there has to be that exchange of energy that kids don't have today. Look 'em in the eye. Lean forward, mention their name. Mm-hmm. You know, smile. Make 'em pretend like that client's a third grader, right?
Mm-hmm. If you don't have that exchange of energy, then you're not gonna bond with that client. And that client is so important to you, to your business. So you could be the best in the world, but if you don't have that connection, you're gonna lose it. So that was part of it. And just the scripts. I know the dialogue that works.
I'm a big Deming fan and he says, take the variation out of everything. Do the same thing each and every way. We let our students personalize the scripts, but what we do is we manage all the points of contact that a client and a student would have together. The greeting, the consultation, the shampoo, the finished style, the retail recommendation, the pre-book, all those things, the referral, you know, like if I'm doing your hair right now, I would say, or my students doing here, I'd say, okay, Kristen.
Mary over here, the student's gonna say, Hey, Kristen, I'd like to see you again in five [00:25:00] weeks from today. Five weeks from today. Puts us at the end of October, June, like the mornings or the afternoons. Now I'm gonna listen to her say that, and I'm gonna tell the, the, the client, I said, now this is school.
She's gonna practice her script. So the key to learning is repetition, repetition, repetition. Mm-hmm. I find that greatness comes with being very rhetorical about things. You've gotta repeat 'em. We have a saying that says four times, four ways in our school for the same content.
We want our students to own these. So then they know, even if they're shy, all they have to do is fall back to what they know to do to build their business. You know, like asking for a referral or asking for a review, you know, it becomes rote. It becomes, you've got the mental model what greatness is. So that helps 'em a lot.
And then when you do the business building things, because the thing I learned, I, I knew nothing about business and financial literacy and all that. And we teach 'em all that now and it's great. So we teach 'em how, oh, by the way, you know, like I said, have you ever considered defining your browse?
You know, we have a [00:26:00] special in today, or I would use this language. This language is very important. Does your hair feel dry to you, Kristen? It does. Oh yeah. Because you said your hair felt dry. We just happen to have a moisturizing ture happens to be on sale today for $12.
Would you be interested in doing that? So all of a sudden our average ticket at our beauty school is really high for a beauty school.
Kristin Kienzle: Oh, that's excellent.
Eric Fisher: And it's because these guys know how to add on services that are necessary color waxing or condition for aesthetic or for cosmo aesthetics has their own.
And this builds the average ticket, which means, and by the way, you know this, the people in our industry that make the most money have the highest average ticket.
Kristin Kienzle: Oh yeah.
Eric Fisher: So get that ticket higher, make more money.
Kristin Kienzle: But also those take home products and all that. Builds on what you've just done.
Absolutely. There's, I see stylists refusing to wanna sell retail because they think it's selling stylists or aestheticians. Yes. Where, you know, you do a beautiful [00:27:00] facial, you've done so much work. Now they're gonna go home and use their Yeah. Their stuff that it totally demolishes all the work you just did.
And then that reflects on you as That's right. As the beauty professional. So That's Right. Well,
Eric Fisher: and sometimes you have to be very categorical about mm-hmm. What you're telling the clients. So, you know, we have a method, it's the three product method, and this, it's a fge study that was done years ago, works with dresses, works with cars, works with jewelry.
Take three products up. You say, these are the three products I used on you today. Nobody wants to say no, the students don't wanna hear the word no. So we never ask for the sale. We just say thank you. What a pleasure. I will see you again in five weeks. Guest services has you pre-booked, these are three products I use on your day and we walk away.
There's an 82% chance that that client will buy at least one product. Wow. And to the students, we do financial planning for them. So we can look down and we can say, you know, if your average ticket is this, you're doing this many clients a day, you're [00:28:00] working five days a week, four days a week, you know you're getting 15 to 20% in tips.
You're gonna pay this in taxes. It's a whole financial plan. And if you retell, you can add another five to 10% to your bottom line. That's thousands of dollars just by mentioning, telling about a product. You're not selling anything and you easy, you're endorsing. Yeah.
Kristin Kienzle: You know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking of all the money I've left on the table over the last 35 years because I didn't know this
Eric Fisher: well.
Kristin Kienzle: Where was Prosper you? When I was coming up, we were
Eric Fisher: Retail Salon of the year, way back in the day by American Salon or Modern Salon, one of the magazines. So I took a deep dive into this. So one thing that, that I think is essential that. Where you put your focus is where you get your results, so When you wanna do something, I'm all in. I research it, I read about it, I find out what the best practice for it. I interview the right people. And when we'd started double shifting I went to Jerry Gordon in Chicago, Karen and Jerry, they were the best, the smartest. And he said, E every one of your chairs can do what?
I go, I, don't know, you know? He said, [00:29:00] what are you doing now? I said, nine hours a day. How many days you open? He says, you can do 72, 76 hours a, week with your chairs. Mm-hmm. We double shifted. We're open seven days a week, and. Packed all the time. People want to come in at 10 o'clock at night.
People want to come in at seven in the morning. And
Kristin Kienzle: some people wanna work those hours too. Works their life. And some people wanna wanna work those hours. Yeah.
Eric Fisher: Yeah. So, you know, whatever it is that you're, that you try to accomplish, you know, you, you, life is about movement and change. It's not about vacillating in decisions.
It's not about stillness. People say, Hey, I want to do this, I wanna do that. I go, well, why aren't you doing it then? Mm-hmm. You know, why aren't you in the trenches? Why don't you work your ass off and find out everything you can about that to be great? It's easy. Everybody wants to be great, but what are you willing to do for it?
Mm-hmm. That's the question.
The Price of Success
---
Eric Fisher: And that's what I ask people when they say, I wanna be rich. I want to, I wanna be successful like you. I worked for a company for a year out of New York for free. I slept in my car to go see famous hairdressers in Houston. Wow. I have done it all. I went to London. I lost weight 'cause I had to eat [00:30:00] cucumber sandwiches 'cause I had no money. Yeah. But guess what? It paid off I got a retainer. I made more money probably than almost any other, platform artist in the country. I, I traveled the world doing hair. I worked for magazines. I shot with Cosmo in Greece and I loved it.
I was like a rock star, you know? And I've had so much fun. And why? Because I got good. I got really good. 'cause I paid the price in the beginning. I suffered, I sacrificed. Mm-hmm. And you gotta do that. If you wanna be great, it's not just gonna happen. Demonstration is how it happens, you know?
It doesn't happen any other way. You gotta demonstrate to me, you know, my dad said to me, when, when I got off that plane, you wanna be good? Do you wanna be great or do you want to be amongst the best? And I said, I don't know what that means, you know? I just didn't know what that means.
Mm-hmm. You know, I guess I want to be my personal best. I mean, I didn't know. Mm-hmm. And I don't think there's any the best, you know, I thought about that over the years. And I thought, you know, [00:31:00] I'm not competitive at all with anybody except myself, and if I'm not doing, if I'm not living up to, if I let a haircut go out the door, 'cause I'm still behind the chair a couple and it's not perfect, it bothers me.
I'm so aligned with quality and excellence in my life that it's a very important core value for me. And everybody's got their own core values, and mine are very important to me. My personal core values good health. You gotta have a strategy for every core value, right.
Good health. I brush my teeth six times a day, way too much. Wash my hands, work out. I got good mental health, I read the right books, focus on the right things. Life has to have that kind of movement to it. If it doesn't, then, it just slips away from you too fast. Mm-hmm. And you, you, you look back and you go, I wish you, I should have, I could have.
Mm-hmm. Everybody's got the capabilities, but not everybody has the desire.
Kristin Kienzle: I think when your dad asked you that question, if you'd had any foresight, you would've known that you do strive to be the best.
Eric Fisher: Yeah. I, you know, and I know
Kristin Kienzle: you're not competitive, but obviously you work to be the best. [00:32:00] You feel that your school is the best, your salons are the best.
And I don't think very many people can argue with you. I, I,
Eric Fisher: I so appreciate those kind words. And, and I think that's just a, personal, maybe it's a, you know, you work a lot harder and you look work a lot longer. And I sacrificed a lot of things. Like I have four kids and I probably wasn't there enough for the younger girls.
But you know, now we all travel together. We have a good time. They have kids, so all is good. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I mean, there's always a price to pay for success. I mean, there always is extra practice, whatever it is, but you pay that price.
The Price of Success
---
Eric Fisher: You just do, it's just part of life. And if you don't wanna pay the price, then, you're gonna settle in mediocrity, you know?
And, and that's, that's your choice.
Kristin Kienzle: So a lot of what's influenced your success comes from outside the beauty industry going forward.
Influence of Social Media
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Kristin Kienzle: What do you see coming that will be an influence in our industry?
Eric Fisher: Well, I, I think there's, there's so many things because everything's becoming amalgamated [00:33:00] together. And thanks to social media and things like that, like, I, I, I grew up with magazines. Mm-hmm. You know, Linda Evangelista in the nineties or the late eighties on the cover of Vogue with a great little haircut.
You don't see that anymore. You know, podcasts that's got a million followers is more influential than a magazine, you know? Mm-hmm. So things have dynamically shifted. And I would say, you know, I read this amazing book, A Circle of Creativity by Rick Rubin. If you haven't read this book, you gotta read it, but you gotta have your antenna up.
You gotta look for the next best thing. Mm-hmm. And, and again, if your intent antenna's not up, you're not gonna see it. Like as a photographer my antenna is always up. I look at something, I look at reoccurring patterns, I look at gradation of light automatically, I've trained my eye to see that, not just in people, but in everything.
So I think that antenna has to be up there for what you're looking for.
The Importance of Authenticity
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Eric Fisher: My wife and I went to a restaurant recently. A new Italian restaurant. I know the owner, and he's a wonderful, wonderful individual. If I were gonna open an Italian restaurant, guess what?
I'd go down to Little Italy in New York and I look at what's happening [00:34:00] there. Mm-hmm. And, and I would be so authentic. But, you know, they were playing top 40 music. There was no, no feeling of Italy in the place. Wasn't authentic at all. You know, in fact, it lacks so much authenticity and the seats were hard.
The food was great. My wife will never go back. Mm-hmm. Food was great. Mm-hmm. No, it was really good. But the atmosphere, the environment, experience, experience wasn't there.
Producer: Mm-hmm.
Creating Memorable Experiences
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Eric Fisher: I'm glad you brought that up because there was a great book written called The Experience Economy and you wanna transcend past the Service into the experience of the Business.
Now let me tell you a little story. When, when I was a young hairdresser, I was a. You know, working in New York a lot. I got big really fast because I just loved it. And so I was doing all this stuff in New York City, but I was coming back to Wichita America, but I used to travel on TWA, if anybody remembers that airline, through St.
Louis. And there was an old, big old barber at the, at the airport that used to cut my hair. I love this guy. And he had the biggest fattest hands, and he would put that stinky stuff on me, and I [00:35:00] loved it. And he'd push my head around like this, and, you know, why I loved this so much was the haircut great. I, I don't even think it was that good, but I loved it because my dad used to take me to that barber shop.
Wherever we lived at the time he was military. And I just remember that bonding. My dad was a tough guy. Mm-hmm. So bonding with my dad over a barbershop was great. And so I went back to this place until TWA went outta business and I didn't go to St. Louis to go to New York anymore. The experience just transcended the actual service and, you know, the sight, sound, smell, all those things have to have to go together to make the experience great.
So in my salons, we play all the videos from the fashion, from Milan to Paris to New York, all Prada, Miu Ksan, all the latest fashions. We got the best magazines. We have candies and Starbucks coffee. We have red wine and white wine. Well, you know, we want that experience to be great.
We come in early, we stay [00:36:00] late, we go beyond the call of duty for the client. Whatever it takes, we'll be there. If it's a little old lady, we'll walk 'em out to the car, we'll call 'em to make sure they made it home okay. On a, on a rainy day. Mm-hmm. You know, you exceed expectations because it's not the service, just the service business.
It's, it's the people business. And so all of those things, and I'm influenced by all of that. I've been to all of Danny Meyer's restaurants in New York. I used to live in New York. I've been to all of his restaurants. The service was impeccable and great. So if I were opening a new business today, I wouldn't go next door and see what they're doing.
I wouldn't look at my competition in town. I would go to the best places and that's what I did. Every one of my salons is unique. Like this one. This looks like Paul Smith clothing place in London. 'cause that's what influenced me. I'm either a museum, I'm a restaurant, I'm a library, I'm a bookstore.
Mm-hmm. Every one of my locations is different because. I'm influenced by those things. They're, they're really good. They pay attention to details and, and to me, I'm a detailed guy. Yeah.
Attention to Detail
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Eric Fisher: In fact, my, when my son's 25, now, he [00:37:00] lives in Dallas, just turned 25 when he was a, a little guy. We used to go get yogurt and I'd say, okay, tell me he'd be eight, seven years old.
What's wrong? Two lights are burned out. Dad, that stain that was here last week is still here. They've got the music on the TV's playing. It's confusing. I go, good boy. Notice those details. You gotta be detail oriented. You know, there's an old saying, Tom Peters used to say LBWA, learn by walking around. You know, sit in your lobby, get a service done at another place.
Put your
Kristin Kienzle: phone down. Put your phone down, yes. And take it in.
Eric Fisher: You have to be intimate with life. Mm-hmm. And we're so superficial these days. Mm-hmm. You know, we get on our phone. Even my guys, you know, my really, my, my leadership staff, they're brilliant. I'll go into the conference room.
Everybody's on their phone. Mm-hmm. I go, get the heck off your phones. Mm-hmm. Let's talk, let's build, you know, character and relationship and let's move the ball forward. But, but we're not gonna do that on, on your phones.
Kristin Kienzle: It's hard. I mean, I challenge myself. I have a thing where [00:38:00] if I walk into a restaurant and I'm waiting, it's so easy to grab your phone and distract yourself and, and start looking.
I think, no, put it down. I take it in. Look at the people like you said, look at the decor. Notice that the light bulbs out. ~All those, ~
Eric Fisher: ~those things know. ~So my wife and I were having dinner, this is a couple years ago. We walked into this place to, it was like a stretch massage place. It was a cool new business.
And the guy that does it is there, and the receptionist there, and, they're both on their phones. And I said, Hey, you know, what's this? It was a franchise. And I said, you know, you guys missed out. I have 150 employees. You just missed out on, I was gonna do this for my staff, but I'm not gonna do it now.
Mm-hmm. In fact, if I can find the own, 'cause no attention. Indifference, indifference is the enemy. Mm-hmm. You know, not that you have to be over the top, but Oh, I love you so much. You don't have to do that, but you gotta show that you care. You gotta be in the moment, you know? Yeah. And I have clients that come in that that are 50 years old that say I'm invisible.
Nobody pays attention to me. Mm-hmm. You know, and because people are on their phones and they're so [00:39:00] indifferent and you show me a place that that is good with customers, there's plenty of them out there. Mm-hmm. But, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a deal breaker for me, you know?
The Power of Human Connection
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Kristin Kienzle: Well, in our industry, I know when people select their beauty professional, whether it's someone giving them a massage, a facial, or a haircut, so little of it is about the quality.
You can do a terrible haircut, right. If they like you, you shouldn't, but if they, if they love you, they feel, they feel noticed and, and needed. And then the touch. I remember when I was towards the end of my hair cutting career a couple of years ago, I had clients that were older and their husbands were gone.
Producer: Yes. And
Kristin Kienzle: the kids don't come around that often, and I was the only one who touched them
Producer: Yes. In,
Kristin Kienzle: in the five weeks between the time they'd seen me. And sometimes that's a little draining because it's, you really get, it's draining. It's emotionally draining. But I think that gets lost on some of these people too.
They just think if I can master my craft, I can just go in, you know, be on my phone when I'm not doing whatever I'm [00:40:00] doing and just check in, check out. But you're, it's so much more than that. It's the things of checking to see that they made at home. There's a book and I wish that I could be as good as you about naming off the books I've read and the authors.
And I also wanna know when you find time to consume all that, because. I usually have both going at the same time, but there's just never enough time to consume all that I wanna consume. But that being said, there's a book that I read and, and I'll, I'll come up with it as soon as we're done with this podcast, but it is about exactly what you're talking about and it's a, it's a restaurant industry book and
Eric Fisher: Oh, I bet it's a guy that does a a, a Madison Avenue restaurant.
Yes. I just won. I've got it. I read it. Yes, it's great. Yes. It's called unrealistic Hospitality or something. Unreasonable. Unreasonable. That's it. Unreasonable hospitality. Yes. Yeah, it's a great book.
Kristin Kienzle: So good. Yeah, and so inspiring and just, I thought every hairstylist needs to read this book. I it, and people won't pull that off the shelf because it's a restaurant book. Yeah. So,
Eric Fisher: well, you know, there's so much, so many [00:41:00] similar things and, and I can, appreciate everything you're saying because, I have clients too that.
I love them, but they don't want get out of the chair. Mm-hmm. You know, they're busy talking to me. I don't like to run behind. I have assistants, but they'll come up to me and go, Eric you know, Mary's waiting for you over here. And I'll go, listen, I really have to go. And I love them, but they're lonely.
They talk to you. Mm-hmm. And I talk to them, you know? Mm-hmm. I give every student my phone number, thousands and thousands of students have my number and I say, text me. Don't call me because I wanna know how they're doing. Mm-hmm. I think that level of intimacy is really important.
Mm-hmm. Some people, like, I had a guy tell me one time he said, I said, what's the regrets? He made a lot of money. He's had a Long Island. He said, my biggest regret, I should have doubled the price of my tickets from my clients before I left the industry, because they would've paid it. Wow. And I go, wow, you know, I was thinking about doing my work for free because I love my clients so much and I made enough money that I just work for free.
Mm-hmm. I said, you know, your, your difference, your take on [00:42:00] life is a lot different than my take on life. Mm-hmm. You know, this guy had a product company made, made millions, but it's not about the money. The money is the byproduct of your hard work. It's a validation of who you are, your commitment. But my God, to me I could care less about the money.
I think maybe that's why I've done so well. 'cause I never was motivated by money, you know?
Kristin Kienzle: Oh yeah. You can't be motivated by money. Yeah. But that being said, I think that's.
Financial Success in the Beauty Industry
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Kristin Kienzle: That's something we're starting to see is there is money in this, in this industry. There is success. You can support your family and your lifestyle.
And I know back when I entered the industry, it felt more like a hobby. I wasn't taken seriously. I was just a hairstylist. I know, oh, you just do hair. And there was no respect for it, and a strong assumption that I would never make money at doing something. So I love to see that changing and evolving.
Eric Fisher: I do these master classes around America, so I meet all the best of the best. And it is so interesting. I can think of a dozen people, like I do this [00:43:00] charity event in Washington, DC for children's hospital. And I charge, I think we charge 750 a haircut or something, 500 I can't even remember.
But there's. Four celebrity hairdressers like me. We all do it and we love doing it. It's 24 hours. Morton's caters it, it's beautiful. But the guy that runs the show there, little French Moroccan guy named Andre and you know, the Europeans work so much different than the Americans and the English, the French do.
And so I go, how many, how many clients do you guys see? Does Andres see? And they said, oh, about a hundred. And I go, no, no, not the whole salon, just him himself. He said, yeah, about the hundred. Wow. I go, you ought be kidding me, a hundred. So I go up and watch this guy, five assistants. The guy is unbelievable.
You, no, you don't need the cut today. We just do the highlights. You, you need the cut and the color. You, you need nothing but a blowout. You. That's the way they work. That's the Europeans tell the clients what's gonna happen. Mm-hmm. And this guy, you know, last time I was there, I think he was at one 50 a haircut.
This guy's [00:44:00] making 10 to 15 grand a day himself. There's also a couple of twins down in New Orleans that I work with a lot. In fact, they're gonna be here this month, and they have an average ticket of over $300. And they both do about 20 to 30 clients a day. Their average day themselves, one person is between seven and $15,000 a day.
And I know this for a fact 'cause they've shown me their totals. Wow. Incredible. So anybody says, I can't make money, but you have to be intentional. Oh yeah. Like we do color and you get the conditioner and you buy the products that we recommend it or we don't do your hair. Mm-hmm. Period. And because they're really good at what they do, they have a waiting list of clients and their model is really interesting.
You go in the morning and then you sit at a big round table with people that have been booked, you know, four weeks out just like you, or six weeks out, you drink coffees, eat rolls, you go in the afternoon, it's the same thing, same people. You know, 'em all, it's a social thing. You go in at night, there's red wine, there's snacks, and it's a beautiful, beautiful system.
And they love what they do. They're [00:45:00] very passionate, but they make more money than just about any, that, that's not their salon, that's just them personally. Wow. And you can do it, but they have certain rules and regulations. And you know what, they're drivers, they're, they're not as old as I am.
They're probably. I don't know how old they are, but love what they do. Mm-hmm. And they print money and all their staff makes a ton of money too. They're great. So, not that money is that important, but I love the fact that, you know, you're running the show. We have for our school, and this is a pro.
Defining Your Unique Value
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Eric Fisher: You think every student has to have a defining statement? A defining statement is what you do best. I would love that. What's, what's elevator speech? Yeah.
Producer: Mm-hmm.
Eric Fisher: It could be, Hey, I do the best color. Mm-hmm. I do best corrective color. I do the best weaves. And then why and what you do. Like mine's authentic beauty, you know, so my strategy for that, my 32nd conversation would be, I can make you look good.
I look at your face. I study your bone structure. I feel the back of your head. I understand your hair, I understand proportions. I can look at you and I can tell you to curl your lashes, define your brows, cut your hair a little shorter so it's [00:46:00] proportionate. That's what I do. I'm a classically trained hairdresser.
You wanna look your best. Come to me, I'll make you look your best. You know? That's it. And that's been my defining statement most of my career. So we encourage people to know what they do, know what they love, and follow that dream. And then get good, take classes, you know, there's not a better investment than you can make than in yourself.
There's no stocks or bonds or real estate deals that'll give you the kind of return that you can get if you just invest in yourself. I'm not talking about TikTok or YouTube videos. Mm-hmm. I'm talking about, you know, get in the trenches, learn, and don't stop and practice.
The Role of Continuous Learning
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Eric Fisher: You ask me how I find the time to read for Yes.
I'm dying to know years and years and years. I do the same thing. I get up at four 30 every morning. Mm-hmm. I read for 20 minutes, and then I look at the three best topics, the three things I want to take away. I write those down. Then I read for another 20, 25 minutes, and I stop and I write those topics down, and then I go to my office, I work, and then I work out.
And I, I never vary. It's the [00:47:00] same. You sleep. Well, I don't sleep much. Oh. And I'm never need, that's, that's one of my, my gifts.
Kristin Kienzle: That's your superpower. Yeah. I'm very
Eric Fisher: lucky. I've got a little grandson now that doesn't sleep, and they're, the kids are like, oh my God. He's just like, you doesn't need sleep. But I, I, I could tell when I'm getting a little rundown, but the thing is, you can't vary.
You can very once or twice, but once you start varying too much, you lose the habit. Mm-hmm. Habits are so important. Habits, bad habits will stick with you, but good habits will stick with you too. Mm-hmm. And so you gotta ameliorate the bad things and capitalize on the good things. That's one of my, one of my tenets.
And you gotta look at what's good and what you, you know, and I don't, I, I read for pleasure once in a while, but I read to learn,
Kristin Kienzle: you know,
Eric Fisher: I enjoy learning. It makes me feel good about myself, ~inspiring. ~
Kristin Kienzle: ~I, ~I gave all my inspiration from reading.
Eric Fisher: Me too. You know, and from people like you inspire me with what you've done in your business and Well,
Kristin Kienzle: thank you.
You've
Eric Fisher: worked hard and I know it's not easy. I know how hard things are. Yeah. So I really appreciate that [00:48:00] you've done such a good job with this industry.
Kristin Kienzle: Well, thank you.
Photography as a Passion
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Kristin Kienzle: Well, before we close, I think it would be really fun to talk about your photography career. I know that's something that a lot of people don't even know that you are into.
Eric Fisher: Well, my wife really doesn't call it a career. In fact, she calls it an expense. Like, why are we spending so much money here?
I think it started because I used to be a freelance hairdresser and I used to work with some really great, famous photographers, and I'd always say. You know, I can do that. You know, I got a good eye. It's, it's not, it's not clicking the shutter.
It's hair, makeup, wardrobe, all those things. The model, and then it's seeing the what you need to see. And so I, I love it. You know, we've done a couple books. I had a client in Los Angeles that was a great client, so we shoot a lot. In fact, we just shot a cover of a, of a, of a magazine.
For a blow dry company. And I would say that, you know, when I was younger and I'd look through a book, I'd go, oh, that's nice. That's nice, that's [00:49:00] nice. But it's like your career, you know, the more you learn, you're like, oh my God, look at that. Look at that beautiful reoccurring pattern, or look at the depth, look at the model, and to that.
I will say that the industry has changed so much because the definition of beauty has changed. I've learned that as a photographer. So, you know, Cindy Crawford used to be the standard and, I knew her from New York and she was the standard beauty, right? Mm-hmm. All the American beauty.
Well, now that's not the standard beauty the standard beauty is a, is a tall, maybe, maybe short Kate Moss with a gap between her teeth. Mm-hmm. And her eyes are closed together. She's got a lazy eye or whatever. It's that interesting point. And so I'm pretty good at picking up on those things with photography and I mean, I'm learning all the time, but I try to just like anything else.
I take a course every year of photography. I'm disciplined enough that I shoot once a week, and we have great models here in Wichita, Kansas, I'm just learning all the time and I'm not afraid to fail. I try new things, but yeah, it's, it's [00:50:00] been good. And then we shoot these competitions and one of my students just won this year, the North American Hairdressing of the Year Awards, top students outta thousands of students, and that's all of North America.
She won that with my pictures, and then another one just won, it's a competition. It's called the Vision Awards from Detroit to Chicago to Texas. And she just won that two different students same year. So the photography is good. Mm-hmm. A lot of these guys spend 10, $15,000 doing these photo shoots.
We spend, I pay the. The model's 150 bucks or something. So, you know, we got great hair, great makeup, and you know, it's part of the beauty business. So it was an easy, easy fit for me and I really love it. Plus, I'm very passionate about it. And you know, hopefully it you know, I got an offer to move to New York to shoot and I go, look, I did that as a hairdresser when I was a kid.
I'm not gonna go there as a photographer. I mean, I wanna, I love Wichita, but it's fun and we're getting a lot of good notoriety with the photography. In fact, I won, I won a couple of awards with it. So, yeah, [00:51:00] it's, it's good. It's a nice byproduct of, of what we're doing in the beauty business and allows me to see that much better.
You know, the truth is with everything, it's not your technical expertise, it's your ability to develop your own aesthetic.
Producer: Mm-hmm.
Eric Fisher: Your own sense of style, your own taste, and once you have that, and if you can constantly work on it, you know, like my son says something, which I'm, I don't always agree with.
He said, this is the. Age of acceptance. Mm-hmm. You know, and if, if they wanna be like this, you have to accept it. Well, I'm not like that. Mm-hmm. I'm like, if you wanna be dumb, you can be dumb, but why not try to be smarter? Yeah. You know, if you wanna be lazy, sure you can be lazy. I accept that, but why not try?
Mm-hmm. Aspire to be more. Mm-hmm. You know, everybody's got the capabilities.
Kristin Kienzle: Mm-hmm.
Eric Fisher: But no, but not enough people have the commitment and those capabilities and commitment. It's a slippery, slippery slope with acceptance. It is a slippery slope. ~It does ~
Kristin Kienzle: ~kind of. ~It struggling for the word.
Eric Fisher: Well, and you don't wanna en engender ill feelings with younger [00:52:00] people because, you know, like, I'll give you a great example.
My assistant did not show up to see this famous guy that was in our salon a couple weeks ago. And I go, I don't get why you weren't there. She said, I had to let my dogs out. And she quit that day. 'cause I got so pissed off I said. I want more for you. Than you want for yourself.
I want you to be great, but greatness has a price. You gotta show up. You know, back to that thing we were talking about. Yeah. You don't show up. Guess what? You think you're gonna be great if you don't put the time in no way. Just doesn't happen. Success is like a 10 story building. You know, some people can take the elevator.
I was never an elevator taker. But most of us have to take the stairs. It's that.
Kristin Kienzle: So take the elevator. Don't get all the gratification. No. And
Eric Fisher: you know, there's a, a great book about this guy that raised three children back in the sixties. He was from Hungary and I can't remember the name of the book, but he said, I want a wife that can align with my way of thinking.
So we married this girl. He says, I want our kids to be great at something. She said, what do you want 'em to be great at? [00:53:00] He says, language, maybe math, maybe. She said, how about chess? So they made chess fun. The girls, the three daughters, they all loved it. These were all world champion chess players.
One was the reigning world champion longer than anybody else. Why? Because they put the time in, they loved it, they put the effort in, they made it fun, you know? Mm-hmm. But at the same time, they set the
Kristin Kienzle: standard.
Eric Fisher: They did it. I want them to be great. They wanted them to be great. Mm-hmm. Not that that's you, you don't have to be the best at what you do.
Mm-hmm. But you should try to be your best.
Kristin Kienzle: Mm-hmm. So real quick, back to photography. You've obviously taken your skill and passion for hairstyling and turned it into education. Do you have any desire to teach photography?
Eric Fisher: Well, not, not really. No. I mean, I've got this young kid named Caesar that came in Saturday and his mother is translating, prospers into Spanish for us, and they're just a wonderful.
Kid, wonderful mother. And so he, he's taking great pictures. He is really good. So he's gonna come insist [00:54:00] me and I'm gonna help him as much as I can him. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, you reach a certain age, Kristin, and you realize giving back
Producer: mm-hmm.
Eric Fisher: Is what it's all about. Mm-hmm. You know, that's what it's, it's, it's not about you anymore.
It's about what you can do for other people. Mm-hmm. And so, as much as I can give back, and I work hard to think about that, you know, not to be self-indulgent, to be more, you know, empathetic, more giving, more caring, not just financially, but, but involving myself. That's why my school, you know, our profit margins for our school are not the best.
But, you know, we have great tools, great teachers, great things, you know, and I love it. Mm-hmm. And if anybody wants to look at our social media, it's Eric Fisher Academy. Just look at our social media on the Eric Fisher Academy. My Instagram is Eric Fisher photos, or Eric Fisher Hare. Check that out. And you can DM me about any, anything that you want to talk about.
I don't do it myself because I have somebody that does it for me. Yeah. Her name is Shamar and she does a, an amazing job. And we'll get back to you anybody wants to come hang out [00:55:00] with me. We're totally transparent.
I, I find that the more you give in life, the more you get in life. So Absolutely. With Prosper u we do this VIP thing, so people come in other schools and they sit down with operations, marketing, education, financial aid, admissions. We give our playbooks to 'em. A hundred percent transparency. This is how, this is why we are so good at what we do.
We give you everything. And the next day they get to watch Prosper U in action to see why they want it for their schools, how it boosts their cash flow, their average ticket. All these things for 'em, makes the student more capable, you know, to earn more money in their chosen career, stay in the industry longer.
And once they get and see it, and action, everybody buys it. 'cause they love it, you know? And it's cheap. It's like 99, 90 $9 per student, you know? Small investment. Yeah. 12 hours, I think. But yeah, I don't know. I just think that that's, that's my tenant, you know? I just want to give and care about other people and I'm, I'm, that's just me, you know?
And I,
Kristin Kienzle: I remember you telling me that. Well, I [00:56:00] asked you when we met for coffee, why you didn't expand your schools nationwide because. We know you could have, and if I remember correctly, your answer was because you wanna be in there, you wanna be hands on, you wanna know the students.
It's true. And you wanna give of yourself.
Eric Fisher: Yeah.
Kristin Kienzle: And I think that speaks volumes. I love that when I reach out to you, you're available to me. And, and that's such a gift. And, and it, it says a lot about you that you'll even, you'll even give your time to the little guy, the student, the Well, you are
Eric Fisher: so cute. I, I, I think we're all on the same level.
Mm-hmm. And I think people shared so much for me and helped me tremendously. I mean, I remember I was doing a big show for Donna, Karen in Chicago, New York, and they wanted these wiglets. And I go, oh man, I'm a good hairdresser. I've never worked with that before. So there was a guy and, and, I think it was in Wichita, sat down with me and showed me how to do it [00:57:00] and, and a girl named Jolene Baker, who has been with me forever.
And we worked for three days. He worked with us. I mean, every night after work we worked with him he would not take a dime. Mm-hmm. I said, please. He said, no. And then the show was flawless. It was great, thanks to his tutelage. And I used to go watch a guy named Jim Carson, and I'd get up, I'd meet him at four 30 in the morning.
He was a barber and he was great with clippers and a razor. I go, Jim, I wanna learn what you know, and most people will help you, you know, and he, he worked with me, would never take a dime. There was a girl named Cecilia Ricos and Cecilia. When I was a beauty school student. When I was a student, I did, I did models constantly.
And she worked with me all the time. She helped me so much, she wouldn't take a dime for it. And these people are, Robin Wilburn is another one. I mean, Robin was, he was the man in Wichita America. And I mean, he helped me. I'd go watch him, he'd hand me the brush and say, finish my client's hair. I'd be like this, you know?
Oh my God, what am I doing? Yeah. And he would guide me. He'd help me. You know, [00:58:00] these kind of people that give back are the kind of people you want to hang out with. Mm-hmm. You know, and it's so important when you get a little older, you got something to give that you give it. And you, you, you get a lot by my giving by then by getting, I find,
Kristin Kienzle: I agree. And teaching
Eric Fisher: is always a learning experience too. So if we really want to get good at something, teach it. Mm-hmm.
Kristin Kienzle: You
Eric Fisher: know?
Kristin Kienzle: Well, Eric, thank you so much for your time. I know you got up early this morning. You had some, some issues with your doggies.
Eric Fisher: My
Kristin Kienzle: dogs, yes. ~God ~
Eric Fisher: ~love 'em. ~I've got one in diapers and the other one can't walk. And it's almost time, you know, it's sad. It's so, because I love my animals so much and my wife is very you know, demonstrative and mm-hmm. Very caring. So it is hard. Listen, it's been a joy and a pleasure Kristin, thank you.
I appreciate you having me and I love your model. I love what you're doing and you know, I think our industry, you know, it's going through ebbs and flows. Mm-hmm. And historically you can see that, that things change. Mm-hmm. And our industry's changing and I'm not always how to change with it.
You [00:59:00] gotta change with it, even though we're not always on board. Mm-hmm. If we don't adapt, then, they're not gonna listen to us, you know? like I said, I'm a vestige of the past, so, it's a tough road.
A very, my road to success was circuitous. It's hard. It's difficult, but it's achievable and obtainable. As long as you have the right mental model Stephen Covey says, define the outcome first. Define the end in mind. If you look at the end and the steps, you, and that's the best way to do it.
Just think about what you want in life. You know, where are you now? What, where have you been and where are you going? Where you going is really important because yeah, you know, time goes by fast and, and it'll be there before you know it. So, just think about where you want to end up and that helps me a a lot.
Kristin Kienzle: So speaking of that, what's next for you?
Eric Fisher: Well, I'm pushing the photography thing. Prosper U is growing like crazy. I love my school. It, it is just amazing the things we're doing. I learned one of Jamie Coulter taught this to me, who took three companies public.
He was just an amazing individual. He said, hire [01:00:00] the right people, be obsessed with the right fit. Give 'em the resources they need to be successful. And then train them and train them and train them, which always been our model, those three things. Mm-hmm. And the last thing is let 'em know how much you appreciate them.
Mm-hmm. Everybody needs that sense of appreciation. So I think that's been my model that works. It's tougher now. Instructors are harder to find. The whole model has changed. You get a, a, a group of kids that are all from different backgrounds. You come from Compton, California, or you come from Darien, Connecticut.
I don't care how smart you are, your lens is different. How you see the world is different. So you have to adapt to those learning situations. And those, those individuals, you can't put everybody in one basket anymore. So I'm learning all the time. Yeah. I'm learning about how to be a better person
you know, it's a good road. I'm not, you're doing great. I'm not complaining. Yeah. I'll never retire. I mean, people ask me what my exit strategies. I, I, I don't play golf. I don't know what I do. I like, I like, I like being in the trenches. Yeah. You know, too, I'll be, I'll be 110 doing a couple 90-year-old [01:01:00] chicks in the chair, you know, going, woo.
This is fun.
Kristin Kienzle: I love it. Oh, that's great. And thank you for listening.
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