Learning Agility and the Aging Workforce

In this episode of the Conversations We Learn From podcast, hosts Sean Stowers and Loren Sanders tackle the challenges and opportunities faced by the aging workforce in adapting to technological advances. Exploring themes like ageism, AI's impact, and the significance of human skills, they discuss how older workers possess invaluable experience and agility that organizations should harness. This conversation delivers valuable insights for both companies and workers aiming to thrive in a rapidly shifting landscape.

Key Highlights:
• The misconception that older workers cannot adapt to technology is debunked, emphasizing their learning agility.
• Importance of human skills like empathy, leadership, and communication that technology cannot replace.
• Strategies for leveraging older workers' experience alongside younger workers' innovation for effective teamwork.
• The role of AI fluency in staying relevant and competitive in the job market.
• Resilience and adaptability as key traits of older workers valuable for today's businesses.

Quotes:
• "Older workers bring decades of institutional knowledge, emotional intelligence, and problem-solving skills that can't be replaced by AI." – Loren Sanders
• "Think about the fact that this is a teaching relationship between you and this AI co-pilot." – Sean Stowers

References:
• World Economic Forum articles on human skills and aging workforce from January and February:
https://www.weforum.org/stories/2025/02/older-adults-workforce-innovation-digital-economy/
https://www.weforum.org/stories/2025/01/6-things-we-learned-about-the-future-of-work-at-davos/
• McKinsey article on returning to office practices:
https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/people-and-organizational-performance/our-insights/returning-to-the-office-focus-more-on-practices-and-less-on-the-policy
• Wall Street Journal article on investing in older entrepreneurs:
https://www.wsj.com/business/entrepreneurship/the-investor-betting-on-people-in-their-50s-and-60sbecause-older-is-better-f19fd19b?mod=entrepreneurship_news_article_pos5

Creators and Guests

Host

Loren Sanders

Author and Fortune 4 Learning Expert

Host

Sean Stowers

Founder, Chief Learning Officer, CEO

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Brandon Giella: Hello and welcome
back to another episode of the

Conversations We Learn From podcast.

I have with me as always the inimitable
Sean Stowers and Lauren Sanders.

Thank you both for joining.

I love your expertise and your hot takes.

And we've got some more for you today.

Today we are talking about learning
agility and the aging workforce.

So if you don't mind, give me just a few
minutes to kind of set this table here.

So there is a story in the market,
uh, that has been going on for many

years as technology is accelerating.

Technology adoption, advancement,
innovation is accelerating.

And the story is The aging workforce, as
demographics are showing us, cannot keep

up with accelerating technology adoption.

It is too fast paced, there's too much
going on, and the aging workforce is too

stuck in their ways to really keep up.

So enter AI, enter, you know, political
tensions between different generations,

enter return to office, uh, mandates.

So there's just a lot going on.

So the question before us is,
what hope is there for older

workers who may feel shut out?

Due to ageism due to technological
frustration due to changing cultural

climates or political tensions things like
that And there's some other questions to

dive in but that's the main one And there
are a couple of resources that have come

out in the last six weeks or so that are
touching on this and I think Providing

some hope and I would love for you guys
to talk about this This story that is

out there and also maybe some of these
other perspectives that we're seeing as

well So just to give you a few takes,
the World Economic Forum published an

article on January 30th, and then they
published another one on February 17th.

And the January 30th one came
out of Davos, which we talked

about in a previous episode.

Happened in January,
happens every January.

And one of the things that they said Is
that the most in demand skill that people

are looking for right now are people
skills, human skills, communication,

collaboration, compassion, empathy,
the things that you need that are truly

human that can't be automated out.

And my thinking is, who's good at that?

People that have been around
the block a couple of times,

a couple of decades, you know?

So there's also returning to the office.

Uh, this was an article
from McKinsey in February.

Returning to the office, focus more
on practices and less on policy.

And the practices that McKinsey
described are things like connection,

uh, collaboration, a lot of these like
human, like mentorship, which is a perfect

role for an aging workforce to fill.

And then last but not least, around the
same time, early February, the wall street

journal had an article on its homepage.

The top page of the wall street
journal said that the, uh, this

was the title, the investor betting
on people in their fifties and

sixties because older is better.

And I had this subhead, forget what you
think about brilliant young entrepreneurs.

Most people who start successful
companies are in middle age or beyond.

So there's this story and then
there's these maybe conflicting

data points that might be out there.

And my question to you is, how do
you guys see, uh, the aging workforce

and their learning, their ability
to learn, uh, and adapt as, uh,

companies and technology are evolving,
especially right now in this age?

So I know it's a very general question,
but, uh, but I'd love your perspectives

and Sean, I'll start with you.

Sean Stowers: Yeah, so I think what's
super interesting is, and let's just

start off the top and say, um, as L
and D professionals, I think sometimes

we get into this mindset that, um,
older learners are set in their

ways that they don't want to learn.

Um, they don't want to
embrace modern technology.

And I think what we know.

And what we see broadly is
that's just not true, right?

Um, I think learners, um, if
you, if Granted, learning is

happening in different ways.

The way we consume content is
happening in different ways.

Um, and, and just because you're not
a, maybe a digital native, you know,

maybe just because you weren't raised
on a steady stream of YouTube videos

or TikTok or Instagram Reels, it
doesn't mean that you can't use it.

It doesn't mean that you
aren't interested in it.

It doesn't mean that you are
unable to, to navigate it.

Um, my 75 year old mother sends me
videos on Facebook all the time.

Um, so I think that, I think that,
you know, and recipes are, you

know, interesting places to visit.

So I think that, number one, we have
to, we have to take take a step back

and go, wait, it doesn't, you know,
just because you're older doesn't mean

that you don't have learning agility.

It doesn't mean that you can't
adapt and embrace technology.

Um, I think we just have to, and I think
we spend a lot of time thinking about that

segmentation of our audience and thinking
like, Oh, the Gen Z's and millennials,

they want learning in this way.

And my older workers, they only want
to show up and go to the classroom.

It's not true.

It's not true.

They I think so.

I think that that's super important
when you we think about, um, you know,

an older generation workers that, you
know, still may have, you know, 20 or

30 years of working in front of them and
want to work and want to be productive.

Um, we just have to give them the
opportunity and to to both work and

be productive, but also recognize
that they want to be upskilled,

reskilled, engaged in the same ways.

Lauren, how about you?

Loren Sanders: You know, I'm going to
feel some kind of way about this, right?

Let's be real.

Companies who are screaming about
talent shortages while ghosting

qualified workers over 50 is real.

It's not a skill gap.

It's a leadership gap.

And older workers are not out of the game.

They're out of patience for nonsense.

They bring decades of institutional
knowledge, emotional intelligence

and problem solving skills that
AI and fresh college grads don't.

Can't replicate.

But they have to remain relevant.

So if you are an older worker and
you're frustrated by tech, treat

it like your first iPhone, people.

Just start playing with
it until you get it.

Because AI and ChatGPT are
not going to replace you.

They're just the newest gadget.

And if you feel shut out, remember that
networking isn't just for Gen Z people

who are trying to build their brand.

Get out there.

LinkedIn.

Conferences.

Go to meetups.

Your visibility matters.

Because that's where
you're going to shine.

And if you think you're too old to
be marketable, remember the most in

demand skills are the human skills,
negotiation, leadership, empathy.

You cannot automate emotional
intelligence, and you're bringing it.

So, yes, there's hope.

If companies get over their obsession
with youth and efficiency, and if older

workers stop waiting for an invitation
to the table, just pull up a chair.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

I like

Sean Stowers: You know, Lauren, what
I would also just add is I think

that part of this in terms of how
we recruit and retain talent is, I

think we have to get away from the
idea that we're going to recruit and

retain talent and they're going to stay
with us for 10, 15, 20 years, right?

It's not, it's not that world anymore.

Um, I mean, if we look
at, um, even in 2024.

You know, some of the recent stats
that came out from the Bureau of

Labor Statistics, you know, said that
the average tenure was, you know, 3.

9 years, right?

Someone who comes in, you know, maybe a
more experienced worker, a more mature

worker, you know, maybe they only want to
work for the next 10 years of their life.

But you know that that and maybe they
will be the employee that come in and

stays for stays for 10 years if you
hire Them and develop them, but I mean

they you know a younger employee You may
have you may turn that same role over

three times in that same time frame So
I think I think that there's also this

idea that you know, people aren't working
You know for the same company for 20

years or 18 years, you know, they're
moving around and maybe an older worker

Who is looking for that third act, that
third, maybe that next job, you know,

is going to stay for the next 10 years.

Um, be fully productive, have all of
these human skills that you want, and

isn't going to say, okay I'm gonna
change jobs in two years, because

I feel like I need to change jobs.

Well,

Loren Sanders: if you're looking for
somebody to work a hundred hour work

weeks like a badge of honor, we're not it.

Brandon Giella: hmm,

Loren Sanders: Your older workers are the
ones who are going to put in that time and

dedication, though they shouldn't have to.

But your younger workers are
saying no to things like that.

So, organizations that ignore
older workers are setting

themselves up for failure.

Because the people skills that AI
can't replicate don't magically

appear in a 25 year old kid with an
Instagram hustle tag on their profile.

Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm I, I wanna
follow that thread so I can imagine.

Because again, this is one
of those stories out there.

I can imagine someone listening and
given the context that we hear a lot

about, about let's say, um, departments
of efficiency, whether at a government

level or internally at some organizations.

That younger workers, because of their
tech savvy, because of their hustle,

because of their, I'll call it agility
or being nimble, that they can move a

lot faster, that they can move through,
it's computer files or, you know, just

doing a lot of kind of typical knowledge
work, they can move faster and better

and therefore they're more efficient.

And so as we have this story that's
developing where, uh, given the, the rise

in interest rates and funding has been
removed from a lot of tech companies,

there are, uh, there is a story that
they need to be a lot more efficient and

younger workers are the way to get there.

Do you think that that's accurate?

Are older workers just as
efficient or is there maybe a

different way to think about what.

Efficiency means in an
organizational context in 2025.

Does any of that resonate with
what you guys are hearing on

the ground or what you think?

Loren Sanders: I can definitely
say that there is some interesting

misconceptions happening.

There's this idea that investing
in older workers is charity.

And I would tell you it's
not charity, it's strategy.

So when you're thinking about
future skills and efficiency,

one of the most efficient skills
you can have is resiliency.

So your older workers know how to adapt.

They've survived recessions, they've
survived layoffs, and They've had

experience navigating all of that.

They can mentor, as you said, the younger
employees, and that will help reduce

turnover and upskill the workforce.

And if you're talking about how agile and
quick the younger workers are, they are.

But if they're likely to job hop every
12 to 18 months, they're, they're

efficiently moving in a way that's
best for them, not necessarily in a

way that's best for your organization.

Um, so you've got to do an entirely
different approach when you're trying

to engage, retain, and develop a younger
worker, if you want them to stay.

I think doing that requires a combination
of upward and downward mentoring.

They can both teach each other a lot, and
they can work really effectively together.

So if you think you're People
stop learning at the age of 50.

Your company is not lean.

It's losing.

And when the AI bubble bursts, and you
know it will, and they realize that

human wisdom still matters, guess who's
going to be there to clean up the mess?

Brandon Giella: I love that.

I love that it's a different way
of thinking about efficiency, where

resilience wisdom, that sort of
thing actually maybe cuts through

some of that quote unquote agility
or efficiency and, and therefore

makes it more efficient over time.

Loren Sanders: Not superficial.

Brandon Giella: Yeah, I like that.

I like that.

Yeah

Sean Stowers: I think it's interesting
that, you know, again, I don't

know that there's a single company
out there that wouldn't say that,

Hey, we have to be more efficient.

We have to do things differently.

Are there, and, and, and
here's the thing, right?

I think sometimes that means going back
and rethinking the way that we do things.

Um, and, you know, I think that there
is a value to a younger employee with a

fresh perspective coming in and going,
Hey, you know, what if we did things

in a different way, but you still need,
you still need folks to understand

that, you know, around that, understand
the context of why it was done that

particular way, or, you know, what are
the implications of changing that, right?

So it may seem like a no brainer to
change a particular policy, but if

that particular policy is connected
to 10 other ones, and oh, by the

way, those other 10 policies have
real life and death consequences.

If you're, say, in a medical environment
or, whatever, In a manufacturing

facility, you need someone who has
context, because by the way, you know,

running all the policies through AI and
going, hey, which ones can I get rid

of, isn't necessarily going to give you
the right answer, um, because you don't

know what the interdependencies are.

And I think again, like, that's where
you still need that human element.

You still need the experience.

You need the critical thinking.

You need the, um, the, the,
the, you know, the person who

will go, well, what if, right?

I don't think that I, I think that maybe
thinking that older workers are going

to be, uh, a source of inaction versus
action is, is actually completely wrong.

I think it's, you know, again,
we talk about those human skills,

critical thinking, resiliency,
all of those sort of things that

are super important to employers.

These older workers have,
and they have it in spades.

Loren Sanders: And I want to make it
clear that I'm not against younger

workers, if that's how I'm coming across.

Totally not what I mean.

I think the combination of the
two is the best place to be.

Sean Stowers: Well, it, it, it.

Yeah,

Loren Sanders: the way that
younger folks think so innovatively

and without kind of caution.

But there's a level of ability to
execute that can sometimes be a problem.

Where?

I can't necessarily innovate anything.

Maybe I can, I don't know, but
younger workers are much better at

thinking broadly of innovative things,
but the older workers know how to

put the processes and structures
in place to make them happen so

that we can execute on them, and
that comes purely from experience.

Brandon Giella: hm, interesting.

Sean Stowers: I think there's another
piece here that as we talk about this, and

we're talking about this in the context
of what we're kind of experiencing today

and kind of who's in the workforce.

But I think it's also important to
remember that we're talking about this

in the context of at a time when we
are actively talking about as society,

people having 100 year career, right?

And let's face it, the first person
out there who's going to have 100 year

career may have already been born.

They may be on their
way to the work space.

So, so if we are literally going to
think about that, hey, with health

advancements and everything else in
science, etcetera, that there are gonna

be people that will have 100 year careers.

We we need to get our heads
around this now, right?

It is.

I think that's the other thing.

It's like as much as we talk about this
on one out of one side of our, our,

our conversation, we're talking about.

You know older workers
and they're not as fast.

They're not as nimble.

They're not etc But we're talking
about the concept as well that they're

that we are going to In the not so
distant future be in a place where

people will have a hundred year career

Brandon Giella: That's pretty bizarre to
think about, that you're saying, like,

there's some people born today that maybe
they'll be working for a hundred years.

They'll, you know, go to college, they'll
graduate, and then they'll live to

Sean Stowers: Or, or, or, or Brandon,
to be, or Brandon, or to be fair, will

never go to college, but will learn
skills and stackable certificates and,

and do jobs over the next hundred years
of, over a hundred years of their life.

They, they, I think that
that's important to recognize.

And here's the other piece, right?

Just demographically, we don't have
enough people in our country right

now to do the jobs that we have.

So why are we going to discount an entire
part of our labor force that potentially

wants to continue to be productive, right?

We don't have enough people
to fill all the jobs.

Brandon Giella: Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

I don't mean to be stereotypical that
you have to go to college to get a

job, but that's, you know, that kind
of traditional quote unquote, you

know, American story is, you know, go
to college and get a job and move on.

Yeah.

Okay, so I want to shift gears a little
bit so we've been talking about or two

rather, uh, learning leaders and kind
of talking about some of these Um,

I guess stories in the marketplace.

I I can't I try to come up with a better
word, but that's what fits um, I I want

I want your insight on how what you would
say to current workers either looking

for a job or currently in a job and maybe
trying to think about what's next or

currently trying to improve their career
where they are and they're in the latter

part of their career, the latter phase.

Could be the last five years
of their career or could

be the last 10 or 15 years.

What advice or recommendations or wisdom
would you give to them to help them Feel

like they're not alone and there are
lots of opportunities and hope afoot.

Uh, how, how would you advise them
to take advantage of those kind of

things and look forward to the future?

Sean Stowers: So I think one of the
things that I would recommend is, you

know, again, with technology and as
Going back to something that Lauren said

earlier is don't be afraid of AI, right?

Because I think that's a lot of
what's going on in the marketplace.

I think, um, find an AI tool whether
you go to Gemini, chatGBT, take your

pick and I think begin to experiment
with it and then think about the types

of jobs that you want to go into and
think about How that particular tool

might help you better do that job and
experiment with that and build your AI

literacy and fluency so that when you,
and then by the way, think about then

how you communicate that in your resume.

On your LinkedIn profile, because here's,
here's what companies are looking for.

They're looking for someone who has all
the skills and knowledge and abilities

you have when it comes to those human
skills, but they want someone who has the

AI literacy and really the AI fluency.

And if you're coming into the team,
into the table, and you're able to

have a conversation about not only how
you would approach the job that you're

going for, which may be a job that
you've done in other organizations.

But you're coming at it with
some ideas of, Hey, here's how

AI will help me do my job better.

And you're having that conversation,
then you're in the game.

Right?

So I think that it is looking for these
things that, that employers are looking

for, which is those two, two pieces.

The, the human skills and the,
the ai, the, the AI fluency.

And I, and I do think it's
really beyond literacy.

It's, it's really the fluency with
AI and put those things together.

And I think there are things that
you could do as you're, you know.

In the job search to say
let me experiment with this.

Let me get some some feel for this
You may have Microsoft co pilot

built into your office subscription.

Try it What what what can
you get it to do for you?

You how will it impact the
job that you want to take?

Lauren, how about you?

Loren Sanders: I think it comes
down to three words, which

are stay, Stubbornly curious.

Learning is not a young person's game.

It's a mindset shift.

The best workers, no matter
how old they are, stay relevant

because they're curious.

So stop saying, I'm too old for this.

Nobody is asking you to build a rocket.

They're asking you to use a tool that a
10 year old already mastered on TikTok.

Brandon Giella: hmm.

Loren Sanders: Think about that.

Leverage AI.

Don't fear it.

You can summarize entire
industries in minutes.

So if you use the TLDR, too long
didn't read, on everything from

market trends to new tech, you can
consume a lot more in a lot less time.

Pick a new tool every month.

LinkedIn Learning, Coursera, Udemy,
whatever you decide to choose.

Um, even YouTube.

Pick a skill.

Commit to learning it.

Find a reverse mentor.

Those Gen Z's, they know tech.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Loren Sanders: Use them to teach you.

Have your grandchild teach you something.

Sean Stowers: Here

Loren Sanders: your experience.

You're not old, you're seasoned.

Sean Stowers: you know Lauren one of

Loren Sanders: need you.

Sean Stowers: one of the things that
you just said right about About, um, You

know, reverse mentoring and teaching.

I think that's the thing that you have
to remember about some of these AI tools.

They are large language models.

They basically learn to do what they
do based on what they're taught, right?

All of these tools are taught
on a certain amount of model.

Think about this.

You're teaching the, the, the AI model,
how to do something you want it to do.

Right?

Think about and, and I think
experiment it within in that way.

I mean, don't be afraid of it.

Embrace the fact that you're
teaching it to do something that

you want it to do, and then, and
then you, it's gonna do it for you.

And then you go, no, I want
you to do it different.

But then, over time, right, you're going
to have trained it to do that task that

maybe is that task that you don't want to
do all the time, but it now knows how to

do that task when you tell it to do it.

Right?

So think about the fact that you're,
this is a teaching relationship between

you and this, this AI co pilot, this
assistant that is going to help you be

better at the job that you want to get.

Loren Sanders: I think it's really
important to remember that the

best way to prove the marketplace
wrong is to keep showing up.

Because your experience doesn't expire.

If companies can't see the
value of the older workers,

that's a leadership failure.

That's not an age issue.

You're bringing resilience
and wisdom and leadership.

And if companies don't want that,
they deserve the mess they create.

Brandon Giella: There's this great quote
from one of the articles I mentioned,

the wall street journal article about
investing in entrepreneurs who are in

their fifties and sixties, and it has
this paragraph, it, it tells a story

of, of a few of these entrepreneurs, how
they got their start, started a business

at 51, started a business at 50 and how
that went and what they're doing, and it

has this paragraph, that's because older
founders have lots of advantages that

tend to go overlooked by investors who are
obsessed with discovering young talent.

They have connections, they have
credibility, they have industry

expertise, domain expertise, and
the kind of relationships that

can take years to cultivate.

They've seen it all, so they can
spot opportunities that others miss.

They know the rules of their
business and how to break them.

They also know which problems need to
be solved because they have encountered

those problems too many times themselves.

I think that's such a great description
for not just entrepreneurs, but, but, uh,

you know, the, the aging workforce, the,
the folks that may be in their fifties

and sixties at a current, uh, enterprise
or organization, because you've seen,

you've been around, you've seen it all,
and there's so much that you can apply

given the right, maybe a few little
tweaks, learning some new skills or this

and that, but there's so much to apply.

And I'm curious if that, that
paragraph resonates with you guys.

Loren Sanders: It does, you made me
think of, I want to say, you want your

talent to be cheap, but think of it
this way, hiring cheap talent, It's

like buying a discount parachute.

Sure, it's cost effective,
until you need it to work.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Sean Stowers: I guess the question is, is
who's really buying discount parachutes?

I'm just going to say.

Loren Sanders: I mean,

Brandon Giella: I mean,

Sean Stowers: I love the, I love the
analogy, but I don't know that I'm, that's

a place where you decide to go skimp.

And I think that's the point, right?

Um, your talent isn't a place
where you should go skimp.

Loren Sanders: right, that's
where I was trying to go, but

for some reason the parachute

Sean Stowers: No, I, I
love, no, I love, but I

Loren Sanders: It was in the moment,
maybe because my dog just walked

out to the balcony and I was hoping
he didn't jump over the edge, but.

Sean Stowers: to be fair, I
love the parachute analogy.

Loren Sanders: I mean, I could
also say if, if you think training

older workers is a waste of money,
wait until you see the program.

Price of constant turnover
and terrible leadership.

Sean Stowers: There you go.

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

Just thinking you train,
train a, a younger workforce.

And then to your point, Lauren, you said
they're gone in 12 months or 18 months.

You just spend all that time,
you know, time, time and energy.

Loren Sanders: The cost to hire an
employee and train them, that costs

more than the salary that you invested.

Brandon Giella: that's right.

That's.

Loren Sanders: Might as well pay the

worker that has what you need.

Brandon Giella: That's right.

That's right.

Well, any closing thoughts on this topic?

I know it's a big complex topic and
there's a lot of debate, uh, right

now among again, the workforce and
the leaders that are hiring them.

Uh, any closing thoughts or
any parting recommendations?

Sean Stowers: I think, I think the
thing that I would just say is, um,

look, there's always going to be
someone who's looking to create,

um, that headline, that clickbait
headline, that clickable headline.

I think at the end of the day, we just
have to remember we're in one of the

tightest labor markets that we've been in.

We don't have enough workers to fill
all the jobs that we have right now.

And that at the end of the day,
you know, we are fundamentally

as societies talking about.

the potential of a hundred year career.

Um, that implies people are going to
work well into their 70s, 80s and 90s and

that they will, there will be productive
opportunities for them and that I think

we have to be more open to this than we
are and realize that older workers are

not reskill, are not unable to reskill.

Um, they are just as able to reskill.

And as Lauren talked about
earlier, um, one of the reasons

is, is that they have resiliency.

They've been through so many things.

Loren Sanders: For me, I think
the bottom line is the workplace

is changing, but so can you.

And adaptability is not about age.

It's about attitude.

It's a mindset.

Brandon Giella: I like that.

Resilience itself is a mindset.

I mean, of course there's new skills
and all that, but can you emotionally,

mentally, psychologically adapt
to what's going on around you?

And to your point, older
workers are best at that.

I love that.

Well, Sean, Lauren, thank you so much
for joining me on this episode again.

I know it's a contentious topic,
but, uh, but I, I like the way that

you guys are kind of reframing cost
efficiency, agility, resilience, and

what all these things look like for
an organization and for the workforce.

I think it's, it's really helpful.

So we will see you next time.

Speaking of innovation, we are
planning a podcast on, uh, The various

AI tools that are out there, uh,
especially in a learning context.

And so, uh, we're, we're looking to
have a special guest on that show.

But, uh, this is, you know, lots of
people talk about AI all the time, but

what I'm really excited to talk about
is the nitty gritty, you know, getting

into the details of these tools, how they
work and how other folks are using them.

So we will see you next time.

Sean Stowers: See you next time.

Thanks.