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Two deranged lawyers talking about our deranged obsessions.
Raven Sinner (00:01)
Thanks for watching!
Raven (00:27)
Welcome back to Deranged DeJore, back from our brief hiatus and fresh off of the True Crime Podcast Festival, which was last weekend, which took up a lot of their time. And so we weren't able to do all the things that we said we were going to do. So sorry. But we are going to bring you some good new content. I will have Pisha talk about that at the end. But in the meantime, I'm Raven and I am joined by my co -host.
Pisha (00:53)
I'm Pisha.
Raven (00:56)
We almost got there every time.
Pisha (00:56)
I felt okay. I felt okay about that one actually. Not embarrassed.
Raven (01:02)
Okay, well, I'm not gonna knock it. I'm not gonna knock it. I thought it was great.
Pisha (01:06)
Thank you. Thank you. No, the we we had a good time at the podcast festival. We met a lot of really awesome creators. We met some survivors of crime. We met some advocates, all kinds of people. It was really enlightening experience.
Raven (01:22)
Yeah, some really... Yeah, yeah, I was just blown away by the people that we met. It was all the right people at all the right time. And it turns out there's a lot of really awesome people who are doing some really great things for the community. anyway, yeah.
Pisha (01:39)
Well, and I think that's what became the most clear to me during the festival was it's not a business. It's not an industry. It is a community. These are a bunch of people who are connected through the power of survival and in just truly horrendous events. So we're all brought together with the same goal of protecting each other and preventing further violence. So I that was the most enlightening.
part for me, think. But do we have to do any shout outs?
Raven (02:10)
Yeah, I think
We should, we can shout some people out. I think we should.
Pisha (02:16)
I feel like we were told that we had to shout out some people just in case and, I don't know, maybe we'll do that at the end. Yeah. Pull out some business cards. Well, okay. So the cold case investigation team at American military university, Jen Buchholz and George Jared are shout out to them. They have really taken us under their wings and helped us a lot for.
Raven (02:22)
Let's see, I have some business cards, who are you gonna shout out? I have some people I can shout out to. Go ahead.
Pisha (02:43)
planning Eric's search and all of that, getting that investigation going again. So big shout out to them. We were interviewed. Who are we interviewed by? It was a really nice guy from Texas. Yeah.
Raven (02:54)
Brent Hancock and June Hancock who are from Me and Mrs. Always Right. then there's also Crime with My Coffee is her specific podcast as well. I did listen to the first one, Me and Mrs. Always Right. And it's really good. It's really good. They're really funny. So anyway, I recommend that one. That's a good.
Pisha (03:02)
I loved their name.
I bet, because they were funny to talk to.
Raven (03:18)
Yeah, they were great. So, yeah, I haven't listened to Crime with My Copy. I should because I love both of those things. you know, anyway. Exactly. But also, I mean, we we met two other not only New Mexicans, but Socorowans. They were both from my hometown. So there were three of us. Socolocos, as we call ourselves.
Pisha (03:25)
I know, right, as we talk about crime and sip our coffee.
And I learned you guys are called Soko's Locos. Soko Locos.
Raven (03:44)
Soko Locos, Soko Locos, that's us. Yeah, yeah. So we met the guy From True Consequences, which is a really good award -winning podcast. So I was really excited to meet him. He's got a great story. Hopefully we're gonna be able to help him out. And then we also met Beyond the Case.
Pisha (04:03)
the case with Crystal Gutierrez, right?
Raven (04:04)
Beyond the Case, yes. That's the one, yes. So we met, yeah, yeah. So both of those, and she's a former reporter. So we were able to get some insight there, which was really cool. So, yeah,
Pisha (04:17)
Yeah, it was a great time. It was a really good time. And I just want to point out that we said that we were going to record an episode there, but we totally misread the whole thing and it did not say that we could record an episode there. so here we are recording the episode we intended to record there. And I think it's going to be a really fun one. I'm excited.
Raven (04:27)
Yeah, we did. Oops.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, we do. A couple of things before we move on. think, you know, we had a couple of, I'm not going to call them criticisms, but I think it's just something that we can look forward to for the future if we, you know, if we want to contribute to any of these things. I, you know, we're highly opinionated ladies, I would say. They're not always good opinions. But,
Pisha (05:02)
Huh? No.
We evolve, our opinions evolve as we learn more information. That's why our opinions are amazing.
Raven (05:12)
I agree. I agree with that. Yeah. So, I mean, I don't think this is anything new that we're going to be saying, but one of the first night that we came back, we had a very heated discussion amongst us and amongst us anyway, among us anyway, where, you
Pisha (05:26)
Yeah, and I want to point out we weren't heated at each other because we agreed.
Raven (05:31)
no, yeah, we were were heated about the situation because there were two major critiques that I think that both of us came away with, which is the first one was there was a big focus on victim behavior. And we have a problem with that because, you know, I mean, we talked about that, I think, in our dating app episode where it's like, quit telling women that they're the ones who need to prevent crimes from happening to them. We need to like actually tell men.
Pisha (05:54)
Right, almost shifts, right, it shifts the blame and the liability for what happens to them onto them. It's like, well, she didn't find the nearest wall to put her back against so that she could check her phone. And therefore she got kidnapped. And that's why that was so offensive to me. There was this one moment during the like safety instruction where they were like, okay, as women.
Raven (06:11)
That was so offensive.
Pisha (06:21)
we can't be looking at our phones in public and like walking to our car and looking at our phones. And I'm sitting there going, tell a man that, like tell a man he can't check his business email walking to his car. And what their instruction was, if we had to look at our phones while in public, we had to locate the nearest wall so that we could put our back against it and check our phones. I was so offended because no, first of
Raven (06:29)
Yeah!
Exactly.
Because no.
Pisha (06:50)
I'm not gonna go even further out of my way. Yeah, to prevent harm being done to me. Like I'm doing everything I need to. I am so vigilant, it is exhausting. I am burning out from how vigilant I am. And so to be told like I have to be even more vigilant, what's the joy in living if I can't feel safe
Raven (07:03)
Yeah. Yeah.
Pisha (07:13)
like do my risk assessment on my phone, you know, like I do it every single time when I'm walking on my phone. I know who's behind me. I know who's around me. I know where I can go to get safety. Like it's not like I'm looking at my phone going, what's Donald Trump up to today? Like, no, I'm like, I know where my surroundings are. So it's offensive to be told do that, but do that harder.
Raven (07:17)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Right.
Pisha (07:39)
And it's like really has that stopped anyone from getting raped because my understanding is that it's the the crime is increasing at an increasing rate and they're still doing it despite us taking these safety measures. So that was a big criticism as you can see. I'm very heated
Raven (07:50)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, yeah, so that was offensive. then, you know, the other problem with overall, I was really hoping that there would be more representation. There was really nothing about any BIPOC, any of the underrepresented populations, which are even more impacted than white ladies. Like, so, you know, I'm not saying that like any missing person or any crime occurring to
Pisha (08:14)
Right.
Raven (08:20)
women or to people in general isn't important. What I'm saying is like, there's been, you know, this historical lack of talking about these types of crimes happening to women in underrepresented areas, to, like I said, women of color, to indigenous women especially. And so, you know, I just, looked at the agenda, I looked at the crowd and it's a sea of white ladies and, you know, it just, it sat wrong.
Pisha (08:38)
Right.
Raven (08:47)
with me, so as a white lady.
Pisha (08:50)
Well, and you know, there's not much you can do about like attendees, but I absolutely agree that in one of the talks, they focused primarily on missing women and then they did a slideshow. I want to point out if Jen's listening, this is not Jen. Jen, you didn't do this. It wasn't you. Someone else did a talk on missing women and they went through like eight to 10 women on slides.
Raven (09:08)
Yeah.
Pisha (09:19)
And I'm not joking, every single one, they were from all over the country, but every single one was a white blonde woman. And it was, at the end of the talk, I was sitting there going, you literally couldn't find one example of the most murdered and the most missing type of woman, which is indigenous in this country. And like, you couldn't find one example? Yeah, so
Raven (09:27)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Right? Yes. Yes, it is. Not one.
Pisha (09:45)
That offended me when we're talking about victim representation. As far as the attendees go, you can only attract so many people to the festival. Vendors, we discussed that they could have done more to get missing and murdered indigenous women there and these kinds of groups that are more focused around the marginalized communities.
Raven (10:07)
Yeah, I'm going to differ with you just slightly on that. I do think that they could do something about attendees being more representative of, you know, all of the people by making our, you know, the presentations be focused towards them. Because like, if I'm sitting here being like, you know, yeah, so, you know, and I mean, there's a lot of things they could do. Like they could have also, you know, made it more accessible
Pisha (10:25)
Absolutely. that's a good point.
Raven (10:34)
people, those communities, which I don't think that they did. I mean, I don't know that, so I guess I can kind of like back off at that a little bit. But I think there's more that they could do to bring in attendees who are, you know, all of the other things. So, not all of the other things. Take that
Pisha (10:44)
Right.
Yeah, I agree. We also were keeping in mind that it's a... Well, no, it's okay. But I think we also acknowledged that this was a pretty young festival. They only had like one normal year before COVID. I think it was one year and then COVID happened and then I think they've had like two since then. And so, you know, they're growing and learning. And I think our point with pointing all of this out is like they have room to grow and become even better.
It's not that we think they're the worst and they really didn't do a good enough job. We understand that with their limited resources, they may have done everything they could, but these are ways that they can definitely easily make improvement. Right. Yeah. Like, like seriously, and in this one woman's talk, just add in maybe a transgender woman of color or an indigenous woman or
Raven (11:23)
No. Right.
Make
Pisha (11:46)
just something, know, just that you can easily do without changing the attendance at your young growing festival. And so I think that's what we wanted to point out more than anything. We're not being critical of this young festival. That's right. They're really trying their best. But but yeah, this is what we noticed while we were there. And it was kind of disappointing with the victim focused behavior. I also wanted to point out
Raven (12:00)
No, it's constructive criticism.
Pisha (12:13)
we are missing a huge critical part of crime and preventative action. Because if we ignore the criminal altogether and we ignore how that person got to where they were to commit the crime, we're not going to stop anything. So by not saying the name of the killer, by not looking into the killer's history and how it made them the person they are, we're not trying to justify the killer's behavior.
Raven (12:20)
Mm -hmm.
Pisha (12:42)
We're trying to understand how the killer got to this point so that we can actually get to the root of the behavior, the destructive behavior, and stop it. Because telling the victim to change their behavior isn't going to do anything, as we've seen. So I just wanted to point out that we're missing a critical part of the puzzle by only focusing on victims and victim -centered thinking.
Raven (12:51)
That's a very good point.
No, as we've seen, yeah.
Yeah
Yeah, absolutely. And that's actually that's a really good point because we had a really good discussion and like as a criminal defense lawyer, you know, I work with people who are accused of crimes all the time. I that's that's what I do. And so I guess when we were talking to this one attendee who's impacted by it on the other side, there she's a family member of someone who's been accused of a crime. And, her point is that no one's there advocating for her. And she's like,
I understand there's some argument that this person did something bad, but it is traumatic. I've seen the trauma that comes from someone being accused of a crime and how impactful that is on that person and on the family. They're still human beings. It's like, some less so than others. mean, not really. Not really. I don't really mean
Pisha (13:51)
Absolutely.
We're not here to make that judgment though, right? It's your job. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's, it's, but it's a good point. Like there's so many victims. When a crime occurs, there's more than just the victim that it occurs directly to. It's like the victim's family members, the criminal in a way is a victim of society that they've gotten to this point. And then the victim's family, they didn't do anything wrong. They're guilty by association.
Raven (13:58)
I don't really mean that, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mm -hmm. Right.
Pisha (14:25)
So it's, it's, yeah.
Raven (14:25)
Right. And then they get just slaughtered in the media. mean, what people say about, you know, accused persons, mothers is just horrendous because it's like, you don't, you really just don't know the situation. Yeah. Never the dad. But anyway,
Pisha (14:36)
It's awful the way they pick on the mothers. Right.
right. It's never the abusive drunk ass dad. But yeah, always the mother. the mother made them schizophrenic. the mother gave them too much milk and now they're, Republican. I don't know. I was just kidding. Sorry. But, but, but yeah, I'm just, it's, it's the blame that we put on mothers and the blame that we shift over onto the victims by only focusing on victims.
Raven (14:45)
Mm -hmm. here's some other.
Right? I don't know. It's fine.
Pisha (15:08)
is just, it's not right. And so those were our biggest criticisms. But it was incredibly enlightening experience. It really got me hyped up and excited for what's to come for us. And like getting into like real investigations. It's not just about podcasting, like we're going to be investigating
Raven (15:20)
Yeah.
We learned so much. so, yeah, I mean, big shout out, big thank you to everyone who we met. You know who you are. And yeah, so I think we should get started because we're a little bit limited on time. And so I'm gonna make a very hard segue into what our topic is for today, which we haven't even discussed yet. We are going to cover the top five murders in New Mexico. They're gonna be my top five and you'll understand as I'm going along what that means.
Pisha (15:38)
Let's go!
Ha ha ha.
Raven (15:53)
And then we are going to discuss the top five paranormal things that happened in New Mexico as well. So, enough.
Pisha (15:59)
Also my top five. Also my top five. like, we'll talk about it when we get to my segment, but I chose these for reasons and we'll discuss it
Raven (16:09)
for reasons, yes. Yes, so I'm gonna start us off. I'm gonna go ahead and talk about the top five murders in New Mexico, starting with probably the biggest one that probably most people know. I should say actually, before I get into that, there is a number one. We've already covered it in like an hour and a half episode, and so I'm not gonna talk about the Toy Box Killer today. But I am gonna talk about, yeah.
Pisha (16:30)
And we came up with a great name for him, by the way.
Raven (16:33)
Well yeah, because that's in our episode, it's Dirtfucker. And you can go back and listen to that episode and find out why. And find out why. We did create some pretty great names, I feel like we should cover that maybe next time or something, for the serial killers, which are like... All ended, bitch.
Pisha (16:37)
Dirtfucker!
Yeah, not this time, but I'm le yeah. We renamed them, everybody. We renamed the serial killers. Okay, more on that later. Moving on for your crimes.
Raven (16:55)
We did. Yes. Yes. We'll talk about that later. anyway, West Mesa murders is the first number one murder in New Mexico. This happened between 2001 and 2005. There were 11 women who were found buried out in what's known as the West Mesa in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And it's pretty much exactly what you would imagine with Breaking Bad. It's like middle of a desert. So they
we're developing this area. was this recent development and this woman is walking out with her dog and she, her dog picks up a bone and the woman is like, shit, I think that's a human bone. And she was exactly right. It was a, it was a human femur. So they did this investigation. They, you know, unearthed the rest of the, the burial sites and they were all women.
who had been transient. were mostly sex workers who had lost contact with their families for one reason or another. So what I mean by that is that a lot of the times there's a lot of blame that goes on these women who become transient, who become addicted to drugs, those kinds of things. But it's a pretty tragic scenario where a lot of the times they become isolated by their abusers who
known as pimps, I guess, or, you know, or traffickers. Traffickers is really what they actually are. So in any case, these women had gone missing. They were found out to be murdered. It took them a long time to actually even identify who the women were. So this is actually still a cold case. There are a few different suspects and one of them
is actually dead. So the likelihood of solving this case is pretty low. yeah, so that's the gist of like the first one. I mean, I can go into who the suspects are. There's one who's still living. I'm not going to say names, but there's a chance that he might actually, it might become unearthed. Well, they're doing some investigations right now.
Pisha (18:57)
Be the guy.
Raven (19:02)
that could link him back to the West Mesa murders as one of a different murder.
Pisha (19:06)
I was gonna say, I thought there was some like recent stuff. Okay, yeah, I thought there was some recent stuff that kind of reopened the West Mesa case. And the reason why I know so much about this is I grew up on the West Mesa. Like my, it's amazing that I wasn't one of the West Mesa victims because of all the bad choices I was making at that time. But, but like, mean, but seriously, like I remember.
Raven (19:10)
Okay.
Aww.
Pisha (19:31)
they were unearthing these women and I was like, my God, we used to party out there. Like we would have bonfires out there and stuff. And so I remember when they closed it and then something happened recently. You said there was another murder and this guy is connected to that murder and they're trying to link him back to West
Raven (19:37)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
That's right. Yeah. So that could that it may be solved. Yeah. But but, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I was always of the mind that it was. Right. I mean, me too, of course, but but I always thought it was more than one person, but another lawyer that works in my firm who is like brilliant and I just, you know, he just has this sense of like.
Pisha (19:54)
Okay, yeah, that's what I think I heard.
Yeah. Well, I hope so, for the sake of these women.
Yeah.
Raven (20:16)
knowing things, he thinks it's one person. So I gave up on that theory. I think it's probably one person. anyway, yeah. Okay. Well, he thinks that that's probably right. Okay. All right. So that is our number one murder. Number two murder is the Las Cruces bowling alley massacre. On the morning of February 10th in 1990, there was a bowling alley manager, Stephanie Sinek,
Pisha (20:20)
Just that's all it took. You're like, okay, never mind, abandon that.
Raven (20:45)
who was in her office trying to open the business. And she was there with her 12 year old daughter and their 13 year old friend who was just going to go to daycare later in the day. There was also Ida Olguin who was in the kitchen. And so these are the people who were in the bowling alley. When two men entered into it through an unlocked door, they pulled out a 22 caliber.
pistol on Olguin and ordered her into the office and so they were all being held by the gunman basically as hostages. At that time Steve, I don't know how to say that last name, Taran, Taryn, someone will correct me I'm sure, but he was the mechanic for the bowling alley and he brought his two kids there who presumably were also going to be going to the daycare as well.
At that point, because they were startled by this, by Steve, unfortunately, he went in unwittingly, not knowing what he was going into. One of the two, I called them a knapper, kidnappers, opened fire and shot all seven people, including the kids. So that is, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a bad one. It's a really bad one. So 12 and, yeah,
Pisha (21:59)
No!
How old were the kids? Not that it matters, it's really bad.
Raven (22:08)
The two were 12 and 13. I actually don't know how old Steve Tarrin's kids were, but yeah. So that one.
Pisha (22:16)
So there were many kids.
Raven (22:19)
Yeah, there were. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that one is still unsolved as well. So that and probably won't be solved. yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. Sorry. I wish, I wish
Pisha (22:25)
What?
Why? Why? Why won't it be solved, Raven? Explain. Did they not gather enough evidence or... or... it just happened too long ago?
Raven (22:41)
I, you know, it's, the thing is that it's really, yeah, I mean, I think that they were, they were masked. Obviously they didn't leave any survivors. So it's not like anybody saw them. So it's really, yeah, it's really sad. There's, you know, there's a reward out even currently. I was just looking to see if that was, that was up offering, you know, $5 ,000 for any information and, you
Pisha (22:58)
Very disappointing.
Raven (23:11)
hasn't come out. I hate to say this, but I think a lot of the times it comes out when that person is dying because they'll make their dying declaration. So hopefully they die. Anyway, yeah.
Pisha (23:20)
Yep
Yes. But not before they have their declaration, their dying declaration. Die, but don't do it without confessing to everything first.
Raven (23:31)
That's right. Right.
Yes, that's right. right. So, yeah, so that's number two. So for number three is the Torreón cabin murders. This is actually coming straight from a Supreme Court case on April 14th. This is New Mexico, so people are not in the United States Supreme Court. But anyway, April 14th of 1996, Ben Anaya, a senior, drove to his cabin near Torreón, New Mexico. He hadn't seen his son, Ben Anaya, Jr.
since December 10th of 1995, so he was concerned. So Ben had gone to the cabin around that time. When Senior got to the cabin, he noticed that there was trash strewn all over the yard and the security gate was unlocked, which was unusual because Junior had usually always left it locked. So
When Senior opened the cabin, he observed more trash and found evidence of a small fire inside. So the TV was on and he turned it off. Senior went into the bedroom and he discovered a corpse of a person that he later identified as being his son, Benaniah Jr. So Benaniah Jr. was not the only body that was found in the cabin when the Torrance County Deputy Sheriff Susan Insinious
enter the cabin, she found the body of Cassandra Sedillo laying face up on the floor. And one of Cassandra's children was also on the floor buried in clothes and a sleeping bag where the other children lay on top of the bunk bed. So there's three children involved as well. The bodies were, so this is the most tragic part. The bodies were in various states of decomposition and invested with insects. According to the OMI,
This was Dr. Patricia Vigfeli. Ben's death was caused by a gunshot wound to the head. And then I think Cassandra was also killed by gunshot. So the children, however, died as a result of dehydration and starvation. So based on the degrees of decomposition,
they concluded, Dr. McFeely concluded that the two adults died around December 12th of 1995, while the three children died sometime in early in January 1996. So
Pisha (25:54)
So they were like living in this cabin without food and water and their dead parents.
Raven (26:01)
Yep, was really fucking sad. yeah, that one is solved. there is a, you know, positive to that, I guess. But anyway, I guess. Yeah. I forget his name, actually. Like I said, it came from a court case and I didn't actually put the court case name. So I'll tell you in a minute. Cabin murders. Let's see. There was a false confession involved in this case, though. So.
Pisha (26:10)
I guess. Who did
Raven (26:26)
yeah, yeah,
Pisha (26:29)
So someone else was initially charged for
Raven (26:32)
Right, right. So yeah, mean, is Maurice Moya is an investigator and he actually wrote a book about it, which I have not read, but I've been told it's good. So it may be one worth picking up. But yeah, I mean, they got a guy he falsely confessed and I don't know if they got the next guy, but anyway. Yeah. So that's number three. Are we on three?
I think we're on three. So number three. Okay, so number four is going to be a hometown murder. This is not a number five for all of New Mexico. This is going to be a murder that impacted me back when I was in high school. So in the small town of Socorro, New Mexico, little Raven was running amok and was a barista at a local coffee shop.
Pisha (26:58)
Yeah, that was three.
Raven (27:20)
So when I started working there, there were two chefs who also worked at the coffee shop. And it would always be the chef and me as a barista, maybe another barista if it was like a busy morning or something like that. But I was usually, like I usually worked the afternoons because I would go from school to the coffee shop. So it was a great job. I really liked it. But it was like a very...
precarious situation because it was me a 16 year old girl with an older man who was a chef in the back and You know, I'm not gonna say anything negative about either of the guys because they were you know, very nice until um one day I go to the coffee shop and The chef isn't there. We're trying to get a hold of him like don't know, you know, what's going
And eventually his girlfriend comes in. She came in, you know, fairly often, but she's distraught because he's been arrested and he's in jail. And the reason he's in jail is because the night before there was a party happening right next door to his house. There's, you know, the local college that was there. They were having this party and he got into an altercation with one of the neighbors.
And it was about, I think, the treatment of the chef's dog. So he goes back inside the house eventually because it's escalating and pulls out a gun and shoots the kid. So, yeah. So we didn't see him ever again. And he went to jail. When they ended up searching his house, they found child pornography.
and some poached animals. So I think he was... Yeah. No,
Pisha (29:11)
He was caught at the right time? I mean, I'm not saying it's great that that one person was murdered, but like maybe that one person helped him get put away. Sounds bad.
Raven (29:22)
Right. Caught. Caught, yeah. So I think he was charged federally ultimately. Like it's crazy because federal sentencing is so nuts that like he probably would have been facing more time in the federal system than he would for the murders. So for the one murder. But anyway, yeah. So that's that one. Yeah, pretty crazy case. But anyway,
Pisha (29:39)
Wow. Wow.
Woo!
Yeah, no kidding. I didn't, I had no idea that you experienced something like that. That's, that's wild.
Raven (29:53)
It's pretty crazy. Yeah, it's I mean, it's probably the reason I am the way I am. And, you know, and have become, you
Pisha (29:58)
You're like, I love true crime now.
Raven (30:00)
Wonder why? But anyway, yeah, so that was murder number four is the hometown murder. And I thought I would end us on a lighter note and end us with the Cookie Bandit, the Hamas Mountain Cookie Bandit. And it is still a murder. Yeah, it is still a murder that's involved. Don't worry.
Pisha (30:18)
wait, no. It was like, aw. man, okay. Aw, wait, no, no.
Raven (30:25)
Yeah, anyway. Wait, wait, yeah. So, so the story of the Cookie Bandit, like for many years, this is like, I think in the late 90s or so, that in northern New Mexico, there was some guy who was going around and stealing food from people's houses so that like they would go back to their house and it would be ransacked. And they couldn't figure out who it was. There was also like some
tents that were set up that people had found like left behind. And I don't know if they knew that there was like a connection or not. But it was a mystery. Like they ended up calling this guy the Cookie Bandit and couldn't figure out who he was. going to my slide. police eventually identified the Cookie Bandit and as
Joseph Henry Burgess, who was one of Canada's most wanted criminals. So there was a shooting, a shootout that happened that ended this string of cookie thieves. Thievery? What would you, thefts, thefts, of course. Thefts, that's the word, thievery. Yeah, cookie thievery.
Pisha (31:24)
Thefts. But thievery sounds so cute. I like thievery. Cookie thievery. What's this Canadian cookie thief doing down in Jemez is my first question.
Raven (31:40)
Yeah, so what happened was he was wanted for a double homicide in British Columbia that happened in 1972. So he was a prime suspect where there were two campers, Leif Carlson and Ann Durant, that were found shot to death in their tent. Meanwhile, there was a witness who said that they had seen Burgess cleaning out his 22 rifle, which is the type of gun that was used to kill these two people.
So he went on the run and came down to Jemez and was just living off of cookies, apparently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. he was during the shootout, this happened, when did this happen? I don't remember the year actually, I'm sorry. Let me just double check. The year was...
Pisha (32:14)
of all places.
I guess so, other people's cookies.
Raven (32:30)
2009. So, 2009, yeah. And he's, I mean, he's a religious zealot. Like he dodged the Vietnam War. he's an interesting person, but obviously a murderer and not a good guy, stealing a lot of cookies, not cool. So, and he's also the suspect of a few other crimes as well.
Pisha (32:30)
Hit no, 2009.
Not sure.
Raven (32:55)
So yeah, I remember that article when I came out and I was like the cookie bandit. And so I had to like, you know, look into that and it was, yeah. So that's one of my favorite murders. I hate to say it that way, but yeah. Yeah, so those are my Ravens top five murders in New Mexico.
Pisha (33:10)
Yeah, that's fair though.
Loved, very good, very interesting. Cookie Bandit may be another killer that we rename, so it's not as cute.
Raven (33:18)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, I think so. He deserves a bad name. Something bitch. They're all bitches. Bandit bitch.
Pisha (33:30)
The bitch
Bandit bitch. okay, moving on. So my portion of this episode is the top five haunted locations in New Mexico you may not know about. That's kind of my caveat, right? Because first of all, we've got a lot of local lore in New Mexico, both indigenous and Mexican.
Raven (33:37)
Moving
Pisha (33:58)
i .e. La Llorona, Chupacabra, Skinwalkers, etc. I am covering absolutely none of that, but it's fascinating stuff and you should check it out. New Mexico is also ridiculously haunted. I'd venture to guess it's in the top 10 most haunted states based solely on my opinion and no facts. But experts do, yeah, right? So it's obviously true.
Raven (34:20)
So you know it's
Pisha (34:26)
So experts do believe though that New Mexico's haunted history is due to its rich cultural history spanning hundreds of years, long before the Spaniards came to the Americas. Also, it was a super violent history of colonization, tribal wars, wild west shit, et cetera. So there's all kinds of stuff going on. It is very difficult to narrow this list down. That's why I kind of did my own thing.
And we all know about old town Albuquerque and literally everywhere in Santa Fe is haunted because it's the oldest state capital in the U .S. So I went for different quote unquote and not necessarily the most haunted locations. I wanted to pick things that maybe people who grew up in New Mexico may or may not have heard of. And I also want to point out that I have had many experiences all over the state since childhood.
I don't know why. Things happen to me. It's weird. We'll talk about that in another time. But I deliberately chose places I hadn't been yet. number, I'm starting at five. Number five is we're going down. No, I think this is okay. I like how you did it your way and I'm doing it backwards. This is great.
Raven (35:37)
Okay, we're gonna, that's probably the better way to go. Like
Pisha (35:46)
Number five is the old Dona Ana County Courthouse and Jail in Las Cruces. It's located in Las Cruces, New Mexico. That's southern New Mexico. The courthouse was built in 1937 and served as the seated government for Dona Ana County until 2007. Some of the spirits believed to haunt the location. One is the Lady in Blue. She's one of the most well -known hauntings of the
She, according to legend, is a woman in a blue dress who was once a juror on A murder trial at the courthouse. When the defendant was found guilty and sentenced to death, the woman collapsed and died in the courtroom. Her ghost is said to haunt the courthouse to this day. Yeah, appearing as a misty figure in a blue dress.
Raven (36:34)
Wow.
Pisha (36:36)
I know when I first started reading this one, I'm like, what's this lady in a blue dress doing in a courthouse in jail? And to find out she's a juror. Yeah, that's really interesting. So the next spirit in this courthouse in jail is this janitor, they think. Another common sighting at the courthouse is a ghostly janitor. His spirit is said to be the ghost of a former custodian who died while working at the courthouse. Visitors have reported hearing. Yeah, I know, right? Poor
Raven (36:42)
Right. That's crazy.
Damn it. Poor guy.
Pisha (37:04)
Why couldn't he die somewhere better?
Raven (37:06)
I know, he's like left to go clean the hallways for the rest of eternity, that sucks.
Pisha (37:12)
He's like, man, I really couldn't die on a beach in Maui. visitors have reported hearing strange noises and footsteps coming from empty rooms. Some have even claimed to see the figure of a janitor pushing a broom. There's a third ghost, this or spirit, whatever you want to call it, is an unidentified woman who wanders the halls of the courthouse
Raven (37:16)
Come on.
Pisha (37:38)
She apparently has this long flowing dress, no one has no idea who she is and why she's connected to the courthouse. So someone should get an exclusive interview with her if possible. And of course, this is a jail. it's a, right? I'm going to go find her, but, Ooh, which by the way, I found out that I could do like a private six hour investigation there for like 400 bucks or something. Um, lot of money, but interesting. So, so there's
Raven (37:50)
Yeah, why don't you go do that?
Mmm.
That is interesting.
Pisha (38:07)
Yeah, there's other strange phenomena there. There's, I mean, it was a prison, so a jail, there was all kinds of stuff going on. So there's sudden temperature drops that have been reported, doors opening and closing on their own, and unexplained sounds and smells. And it's considered this overall one of the most haunted places in New Mexico. So this is one of those actual most ha
most haunted places in New Mexico. I chose it because it's a courthouse and we're lawyers.
Raven (38:38)
That was a choice.
Pisha (38:40)
Thank you.
so number four is the Double Eagle Restaurant in Masía. Masía is outside of Las Cruces, so down south in New Mexico. It's located in the historic Masía Plaza, and the building containing the Double Eagle Restaurant was built in 1849. The first owner of the restaurant was, yeah, I know, it's pretty old. Like, I think that's one of the reasons why New Mexico's so haunted. We've got all these
Raven (39:02)
Hello.
Pisha (39:10)
old ass buildings and stuff. the first, right, the first owner of the restaurant was the Maes family. They were a Mexican import export business family, very wealthy, high social status. The mother was very much into her children remaining in that social status. The story goes like this,
Raven (39:12)
Mm -hmm. That'll do
I don't know.
Pisha (39:36)
Okay, Senora Maez, she had grand expectations for her eldest son Armando. They had a big house, lots of servants, and one of them was the beautiful teenage girl Inez. Inez and Armando fell in love, but had to hide it from Senora Maez, who wouldn't approve. One day Senora Maez found Armando embracing Inez in his bedroom and in
Senora Maez stepped out into the patio and grabbed her sewing scissors. Apparently, yeah, then apparently in a trance Senora Maez, Maez, my God, I can't talk, returned to Armando's bedroom with the scissors and stabbed Inez. She went to stab her again, but stabbed her son Armando in the back as he rushed to protect his love. Stabbing
broke Senora Maez's trance and she watched as Inez crumpled into her son's arms and died. Armando then, I know, right? Very dramatic. feels very telenovela. Yup. And so then Armando raised his eyes to the corner of the room, smiled through tears as if he was looking at somebody.
Raven (40:40)
my god.
Yeah. Nella, yeah.
Pisha (40:57)
and then collapsed unconscious. He never regained consciousness and died three days later. I know. Senora Maez never spoke again and went mad. Yay! But I mean, this is all story. I don't think any of this is like actually proven. Maybe it's been, I think it's been pieced together through old newspapers and things like that, but I don't know how much of it is true. If these are the actual people
Raven (41:13)
Eeeh.
true.
Pisha (41:28)
or spirits haunting this location, but this is the story. And so the story ends with Inez and Armando now haunting the Carlotta salon, which had been Armando's bedroom that they had died in. It's mostly harmless pranks that these spirits play, like moving tables and chairs. Sometimes you'll hear whispered names and you'll smell perfume.
And there's two, yeah, there's these two chairs in the salon that are upholstered and kind of stiff. So it takes some force to look like something's sitting in them, but these chairs frequently look as if there are two people sitting side by side, one heavier than the other, except there's no one there. So those are the hauntings of the Double Eagle restaurant. And
Raven (41:54)
Ooh.
Interesting.
Whoa.
Pisha (42:23)
number three. This is the historic Plaza Hotel in Las Vegas. No, not Las Vegas, Nevada, Las Vegas, New Mexico. And so let's start with some fun. Yeah, like, don't know, arguably better. It's, it's an interesting place for sure. And I didn't tell you this, but yeah, when I was driving up to Denver for the podcast festival, I decided to stop.
Raven (42:34)
The better one.
No, I'm just joking. It's pretty. It is pretty.
Pisha (42:51)
in Las Vegas and I went to this historic Plaza Hotel, snapped a couple pictures, got some vibes from it. I, yeah, I've eaten there before. I didn't tell you, didn't deliberately didn't tell you this. but I, I know, right? I didn't get to really go in and explore the hotel, but I had previously eaten at the little like coffee shop down there before. So I was familiar -ish.
Raven (42:57)
cool. Yeah, you didn't tell me this.
Sneaky.
Pisha (43:20)
with this location. I just wanted to check it out again now that I've done some research. So here's some from Las Vegas, New Mexico history for those who don't know about it. It's a small northern New Mexico town established in the 1830s. It boomed when the Santa Fe Railroad reached the town in 1879 and a station was built about a mile from the plaza. By 1882 it was larger and wealthier than Albuquerque and Santa Fe.
So this was a big place. Yeah, yeah, they had really wealthy ranching families and whatnot. So they really were wealthier. It was interesting. And then when the train came through, there were so many merchants traveling through. So as a result of that boom, it was believed a high class luxury hotel was needed in the plaza for the wealthy merchants. And in 1881, listen to this ragtag group.
Raven (43:51)
I didn't know that.
Pisha (44:21)
In 1881, Spanish Catholic merchants, French Protestant traders, German Jewish immigrants, and this guy Benign Romero from one of the town's founding families raised money, which was $25 ,000 in old -timey money, to build this hotel.
The local architect they used was TJ Raywood. He designed and built it. He finished it in 1882. And since then, it's attracted some famous guests. Doc Holliday, Teddy Roosevelt, Tommy Lee Jones. I mean, not in the 1800s, but way later. And it's also attracted some not so famous guests. Due to the dry climate of Las Vegas, New Mexico, those suffering from tuberculosis traveled there, as we discussed with the Stanley Hotel
Raven (45:00)
Sure.
Pisha (45:13)
Here's the spirits that supposedly haunt the historic Plaza Hotel. The first one is Byron T. Wells. He's a former owner and town mayor. He died in 1947 and supposedly haunts room 310, which used to be his office. He manifests as the smell of cigars or groping single women.
I did not like that answer. They tried to make it sound, yeah, they tried to make it sound all cute on the website. Ha ha, he's very flirtatious and he was a ladies man and he flirts with women. And I was like, the stories I read were of him like grabbing women's butts and like things like that. It's very gross and misogynistic. And it reminded me of an instance I had in Chico, California.
Raven (45:41)
Jerk.
Gross.
Not cool, dude.
Pisha (46:04)
I was staying at this hotel that like burned down. think it was called like the Diamond Bell or something like that. And I swear to God, I woke up and it felt like I was, I'm sorry, this is trigger warning everyone. I was being penetrated vaginally by something. And I was having the dream of some man who approached me and said,
I'm a ghost and he said and I'm gonna fuck you and he pulled down his pants and he had a forked penis like to like fork it was so gross and as I was waking up I felt like I was being vaginally penetrated and I it was the it was so creepy it was so gross it was so violating and I was talking to someone from Chico that night
And I hadn't revealed any details yet, but I was like, I'm staying at the diamond bell and I think I need to find someone else to stay. And she's like, did something happen? I was like, yeah. And she's like, were you sexually assaulted? And I was like, yes. And she's like, it happens to women all the time where they're getting sexually assaulted by some ghost in this hotel. And it's like, it's not flirting. It's not cute.
Raven (47:07)
That's so crazy.
Pisha (47:14)
It is an assault. so like, it's like, I'm not sure I believe in ghosts. I'm not sure I was actually being penetrated, whatever. But I very much felt like violation and it was very much an assault. So it was not cute. It was not flirting. And this guy, I don't think either he gropes women. And he's also been seen writing. Yeah. He's also been seen writing the elevator from the lobby to the third floor where his office is.
Raven (47:30)
No.
Yeah, not okay.
Pisha (47:43)
So, slightly less offensive ghosts in this location are, there's an unknown little girl and possibly a little boy companion. These are likely children of former owners or staff who prematurely died as a result of disease, maybe TB, I don't know, or an accident. They manifest in the lobby to play with lonely looking alive children. So they're sweet. They're sweet little things. They're not threatening.
Raven (48:09)
Aww.
Pisha (48:12)
and they also have been heard laughing up and down the halls. these are these are sweet ghosts. And then there's two. Yeah, there's two others there. They've been it's been speculated that they were former owners or staff. There's a male apparition who's been seen doing various business around the hotel, but particularly in the basement where he knocks around on pipes and doors. Maybe he was a maintenance man.
Raven (48:18)
No.
Pisha (48:39)
There's also a female, yeah, there's a female apparition who has been seen around the hotel as well. And one theory is she's a maid or the couple are former owners, Mr. And Mrs. Lopez, who sound very lovely. They are not gropey. So we like Mr. And Mr. Lopez.
Raven (48:59)
Okay, that's good.
Pisha (49:02)
Yeah, so those are number three, Historic Plaza Hotel. Number two, this one is fun, Raven. Let me tell you what.
Raven (49:12)
I can't wait.
Pisha (49:13)
This one is the Philmont Scout Ranch on Urraca Mesa, which is outside of Cimarron. So this is north.
Western New Mexico -ish. Or is it Northeast? It's Northeast. My bad, I just saw my slide. It's Northeast. So anyways, this Philmont Scout Ranch is about 214 square miles of Northeast New Mexican wilderness. It's outside of Cimarron, which is probably the most haunted place in the entire world.
we're not talking about that because I've been there and I have such great ghost stories to talk about that place but that's for another time. So talking about this Urraca Mesa, was established the the Philmont Scout Ranch rather was established by the Boy Scouts in 1938 but the history spans back to 200 AD 1300 AD
which means after the death of our Lord and Savior, Dave Grohl. And, oh, just kidding, he's still alive, but he is, yeah, may he live forever, but he is my Lord and Savior. So anyways, right, during that time, 200 AD to 1300 AD, that's when the Anasazi Puebloans resided in the area. They are the ancient Puebloans before all the
Raven (50:21)
no. He may he live forever.
Use mine as
Pisha (50:46)
tribes that you've heard of, it's less interestingly a stop along the Santa Fe Trail and then later a prospecting camp after the Civil War and then a cattle ranch before being established by the Boy Scouts in 1938 as a scout ranch. So there's an abundant tribal history
Like I said, long before the modern tribes such as the Apache, the Ute, the Navajo lived and they sensed evil spirits on this mesa. So before this happened, the Anasazi suddenly disappeared from the mesa. I'm talking suddenly. There is no evidence of disease, no evidence of battle. They disappeared. And it is said to be the site of an ancient battle of good versus evil.
and a portal to the underworld or a gateway to the demon world opened during this time and in order to appease the evil forces the Anasazi entered the portal never to be seen again and a shaman sealed it behind them to keep evil out. Is that not crazy? Like that's the coolest thing I've ever heard in my
Raven (52:00)
That sounds like... I just wonder if that inspired any Stephen King books. Doesn't it sound like it? It sounds like a Stephen King thing. It's almost like Pet Sematary.
Pisha (52:07)
It really does. It seems like it has inspired probably many stories because they just walk into this portal sacrificing their entire people for humanity, for the planet. Like it wasn't just humanity. It was for the trees. It was for the deer. It was for everything. It was for creation. So what a sacrifice. Like I have goosebumps thinking about
Raven (52:30)
Wow.
Yeah, I know. I was the same.
Pisha (52:37)
and such an incredible story. this shaman, right, the guy who sealed the portal behind the Anasazi, some believe the shaman still haunts the mesa continuing to protect the portal from being reopened. The shaman used cat totems. I love this. I love kitty cats. So he used cat totems. Yeah, placed all around the mesa.
Raven (53:03)
I know!
Aww.
Pisha (53:08)
Yeah, they're all over the mesa supposedly and these cat totems keep the portal sealed. However, it is said that if all of these cat totems are destroyed, the portal will reopen. And do you want to know how many of the original totems remain? It's frightening.
Raven (53:10)
Really?
I hope at least one.
Pisha (53:34)
Well, yeah, there's at least one, there's only two. So there's two left. There were apparently hundreds of these. And some have been replaced by modern totems, which some argue aren't going to have the same power. But whatever, it's fine. got these two kitties remaining, staying strong. Eee, ee -hole as they say here. So a little bit about the Urraca Mesa.
Raven (53:54)
Go kitties!
Pisha (54:03)
Geographically speaking, the area has large deposits of magnetic lodestone, which attracts lightning strikes. So lot of weird things happen there just as a result of the magnetism. A ton of these lightning strikes occur on the mason across the ranch. And it also causes compasses not to work. So lots of lost Boy Scouts, bro. Like, I don't know.
they chose this place as a scout ranch because the compasses don't work. anyways, hikers have reported seeing dark figures, dark skinned hairless beings, and glowing blue lights. Also, there's this story of a lost boy scout who never made it back to base camp and will never return to base camp. So he's just always searching lost.
Raven (54:55)
somewhere out there. poor guy.
Pisha (54:59)
Yeah, yeah, and right, and so one last thing to note about Urraca Mesa is there's this old inn called Casa del Gavilan. It's an inn built in 1911 at the foot of the mesa and because of the way it's painted and where it's located, it appears to float in midair when you're looking at it from the mesa. So just kind of a creepy place.
Raven (55:13)
Okay.
Yeah, all together. Wow. I didn't know about that place. I've never heard of
Pisha (55:31)
Altogether a creepy place.
no idea either. And this is another one of the places where it was on the top five list of most haunted places in New Mexico. And when I read it, I said, I didn't know about this. I grew up in New Mexico. I'm basically a native Burquena And and I'd never heard of this. I've been to Cimarron many times. And I know all the haunted stuff going on around there. Why didn't I know about this? This is the coolest story ever. They call it the
to hell. Like, the coolest play - yeah, really cool, so
Raven (56:09)
Cool! That is interesting.
Pisha (56:15)
Yeah, that's why I chose it. as a New Mexican, I didn't know about it and I thought it was a good opportunity to kind of enlighten some of us. We can't unfortunately go there to explore. It is private property. Unless we're Boy Scouts, we can't go there. But it sounds like a fun espionage attempt for us. Try to fit in as little Boy Scouts. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Raven (56:33)
I mean, you
We need to make some friends. We can do that.
Pisha (56:44)
so capable. So, all right, we're we're at number one, folks. Number one derangers, the number one haunted place you may or may not know about in New Mexico. And I chose one that is like my hometown haunt. You chose your hometown murder. I'm choosing my hometown haunt. We didn't.
Raven (57:02)
All right. We didn't even talk about that. Amazing.
Pisha (57:08)
I know, which is why I was really glad when you told me you were kind of switching things up. I was like, dope, that fits in perfectly with what I'm doing. I'm so excited. So you actually know about this, but I did get the opportunity to go and ghost hunt this next location, the number one place. This number one place is called Haunted Hill and it's here in Albuquerque.
I chose it because when I was in ele, not elementary school, but maybe middle school is when I first heard it. But for sure in high school, everyone talked about haunted hill. Haunted hill is the foothills essentially. But for those who know Albuquerque, it's, if you take Manal to its terminus, there's a parking lot for Mbudo Canyon Trailhead.
And that like you basically park your car in that parking lot and you walk up to straight up that hill. It looks like a hill. It's the start of the foothills kind of. And supposedly it is this very haunted place. There have been rumors my whole life going back to this place. I have friends who who would go at night to haunted hill and explore and try to have these experiences. And what ultimately
made me decide to choose this location was I was going to get my nose piercing switched out and I just happened to be talking to the piercer about the episode and the things you were covering and the things I was covering and I said yeah I think I'm gonna cover Haunted Hill and he said yo I have got a story for you and sure enough he had right he had his own personal experience at Haunted Hill
Raven (58:48)
sweet.
Pisha (58:54)
And so he gave me permission. His name's Alan, super cool at Evolution Piercing on Carlisle. I'm sure he probably works at both locations. I know they're great. But he was awesome. He said I could share his story. And I think that's where I'm going to start. So, Alan also grew up in Albuquerque and he and some friends in high school decided to go out to Haunted Hill. They had heard the stories, right? The stories
Raven (59:01)
Love
Pisha (59:21)
It's lore, but I haven't been able to back it up with any sort of factual evidence. But one of the stories goes that there was like a hermit living in a cave at the top of Haunted Hill, and he would lure sex workers up to his cave and murder them. And so that's one of the stories. That's the premise that got all the kids out there for sure.
Raven (59:42)
no.
Pisha (59:49)
And so Alan heard this story and he and his friends go out to Haunted Hill and there it's maybe dusk, it's getting dark and they're walking in between the Candelaria Terminus and the Menal Terminus. So they're not quite to Haunted Hill yet, but they're going through that rocky area. I think it's Las Piadras Trailhead.
Raven (59:49)
Mm
Pisha (1:00:19)
but they're walking and all of a sudden they hear something behind them and they turn and look and at the top of the hill behind them, there is a shadowy figure that looks like a man, but you can't see any features. And he's holding about face high, a, like an oil lantern or a candle lit lantern. It's a very weak lantern, but it should be illuminating his face and it's
Raven (1:00:45)
Mm -hmm.
Pisha (1:00:49)
And this lantern, think in, yeah, I think in Alan's story. I hope I'm not mixing it up with the stories online, but I want to make a point that Alan's story exactly matches all of these accounts that I hear online. And, and so this guy with the lantern, I think it was a green light, like a greenish glowing light. And they said it looked like the figure was calling to them.
Raven (1:01:06)
Mm -hmm.
Pisha (1:01:19)
but they couldn't hear anything and they couldn't see any features. And as high school kids, they just book it. They start taking off and, man, I wish I could remember how the story ended, but I feel like it followed them. The lantern followed them. Yeah, yeah. So,
Raven (1:01:37)
creepy.
Pisha (1:01:41)
Alan's story, I asked if he shared it online before because it really is similar to the ones that I was reading online. And he said, no, never shared online. As far as I know, my friends haven't shared online. So that means this is pretty consistent with the other sightings there. And people have reported, there was one story of a guy who he saw the lantern, but he didn't see a figure. And he was like, it was floating at
head height and you would think it would illuminate a face, but there was nothing there and there was nothing holding it. And it was this like really weak, dim, greenish light, or it's been described as an orange -ish light. And this guy even said that he was able to duck behind something and kind of wait there as the lantern like approached and passed.
and it made no sound. It didn't have any sort of entity or figure holding it and completely weirded the guy out. And so there's all kinds of reports of either a shadowy figure or a lone glowing lamp, either flickering green or flickering orange throughout the trails in that area on Haunted Hill.
Raven (1:02:38)
me feed.
Pisha (1:03:03)
Another fun fact about Haunted Hill is that in 2014, it made national news. Y 'all probably remember it. James Boyd, wasn't that his name? James Boyd? He was a mentally ill. Oh, yep. Okay. So, so yeah. So you know all about it, but for those who don't, James Boyd was a severely mentally ill.
Raven (1:03:17)
It was, I actually covered it on KOB. I was interviewed about it. Yeah. So anyway, keep going.
Mm -hmm.
Pisha (1:03:31)
transient man who had kind of been residing on Haunted Hill and he wasn't bothering anybody and around, wasn't it dusk, Raven, wasn't it dusk when the police confronted
Raven (1:03:39)
Mm
I think so, yeah. It was.
Pisha (1:03:53)
there's some people who are speculating that perhaps his mental break was as a result of being at dusk in this area that's believed to be haunted by this murderous hermit. And so for those who don't remember this story, James Boyd was having this mental episode and he had a one inch pocket knife and he approached police and police proceeded to
Raven (1:04:05)
Yeah, interesting.
Pisha (1:04:21)
pump like 28 rounds of like assault rifle bullets into him and then they released a fucking dog on him. Like after shooting him like I think it was 16 times or something like that. They released the fucking dog on him to tear away at his at his body while he was dying. Super cool APD super cool. We totally got investigated by the DOJ for that and it was absolutely and 100 %
Raven (1:04:44)
Yeah, no.
Mm -hmm.
Pisha (1:04:50)
unconstitutional killing by the police. just noting that that took place in the same location as Haunted Hill. It's another weird thing that could explain some of the weird energy there. But otherwise, I can't find a history for Lantern Man. I'm assuming Lantern Man's gender, of course. We don't know if it's a Lantern Woman. But I can't find any sort of history.
on that to explain that. I can't find any history to support the hermit killing the sex workers either. That's kind of urban legend. So I'm not sure what happened at this foothills, but I don't know. It's something happened to make people have these like consistent sightings of the same thing. And so I was driving by it the day before.
I left for Denver for the podcast festival with you. And I went, I'm going to stop here. And I just stopped and I started taking pictures. And then I decided that night that, my husband and I and my, my other best friend, were going to go and explore it. So we were out there at haunted hill at dusk. And we were there for probably an hour, an hour and a half, and we were walking around.
Polly and I decided that it definitely felt weird and particularly around the rock formations. We saw some weird, almost fluorescent lights, but when we got the guts to approach them and look at what they were, because we thought they were eyes looking at us, it was some kind of fluorescent paint. So I don't know if though, like someone comes out there and tricks people with fluorescent paint or what.
Raven (1:06:33)
Ooh.
Pisha (1:06:42)
But, you know, we got some creepy feelings for sure, but nothing that we can put our finger on. I accused a mule deer of being the lantern man. But mostly that was all the sightings we had. We were out there for an hour and a half sitting on rocks. Everything felt really weird, but we didn't see any glowing lanterns. Sometimes they hear footsteps and disembodied screams, but we didn't hear any of that either.
Just the mule deer who was not the lantern man.
Raven (1:07:12)
No, probably not. have been, I've trail ran, hiked, one time mountain biked before I fell. I never mountain biked again. But on that trail many, many times, yeah. And I did. It was probably the lantern man.
Pisha (1:07:14)
No.
Never again. So wait, did you fall on that trail?
So it was on the trail you fell, it was Lantern Man. Lantern Man frickin' tripped you and ruined your mountain biking experience.
Raven (1:07:31)
Yeah. Fucking Lantern Man. Mm -hmm.
Yeah, it was actually a first date. It's kind of a funny story. I won't get it. And I never saw the guy again and I never mountain biked again. So all around failure.
Pisha (1:07:43)
More on that later, hey!
Well, you know what? I
let's wrap up this episode. We're running out of time. That was haunted hill. But on your note, I want to point out that we have a Patreon subscription membership thing now and you're going to get access to all kinds of cool stuff. And I've decided that the people are going to get access to all of my ghost hunting.
Raven (1:07:54)
Mm -hmm.
We do.
Yes.
Pisha (1:08:11)
videos and all of my ghost hunting pictures. Maybe you'll see something in there I didn't see. I don't know, but you'll get access to those. It's only five dollars a month. You'll also get, think, I think Raven, we need to get access to the full story of the first state mountain biking on Haunted Hill.
Raven (1:08:32)
There you go. Yeah, that'll be part of the next newsletter.
Pisha (1:08:35)
There we go. so also we're going to do like a newsletter. It'll have updates on things that we've talked about previously in episodes. It'll have updates on our lives, updates on our investigation for my missing friend, Eric, stuff like that. So good opportunity to get even closer to us Derangers Subscribe, follow us on the social. Yeah, help us out. Like follow us on the socials. Listen to our episodes, share.
Raven (1:08:54)
Help us out, yeah.
Pisha (1:09:02)
you know, the word on us, because we're trying, yeah, you know, we've got this platform and we want to use it for good if possible. so that's all we've got this time. Next time,
Raven (1:09:03)
All the things.
Well,
Pisha (1:09:14)
We got to cover Young Thug Raven because you're obsessed and I need you to like put your de -cat on. And it's so deranged. Like it's so perfect how deranged this court case is.
Raven (1:09:19)
I'm obsessed.
It's gonna be fine.
There's... Yeah.
Pisha (1:09:29)
surrounding young thugs, so I can't wait to hear you talk about that next time.
Raven (1:09:34)
is bonkers. Like, I mean, the court case itself is bonkers. Like, what's been going on? And there's been a lot that's happened these past couple of weeks. And so we're a little bit behind, but I think we'll ultimately catch up because there's going to be some things that will happen this week. So yeah, so that'll be fun. It's the longest trial in Georgia history.
Pisha (1:09:48)
We're gonna catch everyone up, yeah.
my God, I can't believe that. Wow, okay. I can't wait to hear that next week. And then like I said, new things on the socials and on our Patreon. also, we have shirts, we have stickers, we have bracelets, we got merch folks. So if you want to buy some things, get online and let us know. So that's it for now. And until next time, be sure to stay out of law school.
Raven (1:09:57)
Mm -hmm.
Pisha (1:10:24)
and the infirmaries.
Raven Deranger (1:10:27)
Remember to like and subscribe to Deranged DeJure on your favorite podcast platform and follow at deranged.dejure on all the major social media. Contact us by email at deranged.dejure at gmail.com. This has been a Raven Kink production.