Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.
Tonight, it's episode 200.
So you know what we had to do.
100, we talked about
Night of the Living Dead.
So now, at 200, it's time
for Dawn of the Dead.
Emily C.: happy birthday to you.
Happy birthday to you.
Ben the Kahn: did not consent to singing,
Jeremy: Guys, this pandemic project,
like the pandemic, just won't stop.
Emily C.: Yeah.
Happy birthday.
Aggressively horrified.
Happy birthday.
Ben the Kahn: much like COVID, check
the wastewaters cause we are rising,
Jeremy: Like the dawn, as well.
Emily C.: Yes, like the time.
Jeremy: On that note, I'm your host
Jeremy Whitley, and with me tonight, I
have a panel of cinephiles and cenobites.
First, they're here to challenge
you to your sexy werewolf, sexy
vampire binary, my co host Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you tonight?
I'm good.
Ben the Kahn: this is the cheapest fucking
looking movie in the whole Best way.
I, I have so many notes.
I, I maybe have more notes than for any
movie we've ever covered on this show.
Jeremy: Yeah, uh, there's
so much to say about this.
And the cinnamon roll of Cenobites,
our co host, Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily C.: I feel like it was
a, it was a solid effort.
A solid effort was made.
I still feel like I just watched Dune.
Like, I felt like I, I spent several
months in that mall with those people.
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, it's it's a lot.
I mean, we should say right off the
top, let's get it out of the way.
it is written and directed by George A.
Romero, the OG.
It stars in quotation marks.
Stars, uh, David Emge, Ken Foree,
Scott Reiniger, Gaylen Ross.
Those people are all known
pretty much for this movie.
Ken Foree had a little bit more to do.
Gaylen Ross,
Ben the Kahn: He was on Kenan and Kel!
He
Jeremy: Galen Ross, this was
her first acting gig whatsoever.
So like, she was doing acting classes.
during the day while I
was filming this at night.
Like, that kind of set up.
It is also worth noting, three people who
do not, well, I would say don't appear in
front of the camera, but that's not true.
that had a big influence on this film.
There is Dario Argento, the insane Italian
horror filmmaker who basically made this
movie happen by sheer will, it seems like.
But the two, possibly the most
important two people that made this
movie what it is, Tom Savini our
director of special effects and
sword wielding guy on motorcycle.
Incredible.
And Taso Stavrakis, who is the
director of all the stunts and the
main stuntman, and is also the guy
running around with a hammer while Tom
Savini is running around with a sword.
Ben the Kahn: You mean the man
who fucking swings from a rope
like goddamn Errol Flynn and hits
a zombie with a fucking mallet?
Jeremy: Yeah, Tosso Step
Ben the Kahn: The realest
G.
Jeremy: swings off, swings off the
balcony of the of the mall and hits
a, hits the zombie with a hammer
while Tom Savini gets like, shot
and pulls a full flip off of the top
floor of the, uh, Of them all as well.
these guys put themselves in physical
danger to make this movie happen.
Ben the Kahn: this movie introduces
characters who are pying zombies
in the face, and we're not
supposed to be rooting for them.
Jeremy: I mean, George Romero
insists that this movie is a comedy.
Like he says, it's a comedy.
a very dark comedy.
But
Ben the Kahn: Okay, if it's meant
to be a comedy, that definitely
explains a lot about this movie,
because there's so many weird moments.
Jeremy: Oh yeah, I mean it's, I think
in a lot of ways very specifically meant
to be I don't know, making fun of the
world and consumerism and everything,
it is a farce to some extent, about how
much people love malls And, and all this
shit, while also being a very, like,
kind of, kind of dark horror movie.
Ben the Kahn: But it's also a
movie where a zombie inexplicably
stands still and pretends to be a
mannequin, just so it can sneak up
on you like a video game jump scare.
Emily C.: this this movie, like,
video game, this movie changed
video games forever, and, which
is fascinating, because there are
video games in this movie that,
that date the movie like crazy,
Jeremy: Oh yeah, they love that F1 game.
Emily C.: oh my god,
Jeremy: that pops up.
Ben the Kahn: Original Duck Hunt.
Emily C.: yeah,
wood
Ben the Kahn: be fair, it was 1978.
They had what they had.
Jeremy: I feel like, when, I, one of
the most notable quotes about making
comics that I, I always bring up is,
uh, I remember sitting in on a panel
one time, where Matt Fraction said
that making comics is, or getting into
comics is like breaking out of Alcatraz.
Like, everybody has to do it differently,
and once somebody does it, they block
up that exit so nobody else can take it.
I feel like this movie made
movies like this impossible.
Like, the damage they did to this
fucking mall, this real ass mall.
It's one of the first, one of
the first malls in the world.
The way they say shopping mall,
like, what the fuck is a shopping
mall in this movie, is wild to me.
But like, it's, it is a point in the 70s
where this is one of the first malls.
Emily C.: yeah.
Ben the Kahn: I thought this was
like, oh, this is Romero commenting on
malls at the height of mall culture,
not like anticipating the trend.
I have to say, if this is a timely
warning against the dangers of
rampant consumerism released in 1978.
Boy, do I have some bad news for
George Romero about how the 80s went.
Jeremy: I mean, George Romero, as we
will discover if we watch the next
few zombie movies, is well aware.
Emily C.: yeah, yeah, he's like, yeah,
probably not a lot of people saw Dawn
of the Dead and probably the people
who saw Dawn of Dead understood, I
mean, even if they didn't understand
what the movie was about, they were
probably aware of consumerism in
between the times that they were high.
Ben the Kahn: One thing I absolutely
love about this movie is how, and how
much it shows, not tells, but yet it
is so emphatic and clear that this
zombie problem is actually extremely
solvable if we humans could just
work together and stick to a plan,
something we are willfully incapable
of even in the face of Armageddon.
Jeremy: yeah,
Ben the Kahn: A theme that
has unfortunately aged very well.
Jeremy: yeah, it's a wild film, because
they, uh, with the exception of the
first handful of scenes, filmed entirely
in an actual shopping mall, which,
like, is, is It's such a new concept
at this point that at one point they
refer to it as an indoor shopping center
Emily C.: yes.
Jeremy: And I was like,
well, you mean a mall?
and so it's one of the first like first
actual malls to exist They're filming
in the actual mall At night after the
stores close so like nine o'clock the
floor empties They kick all the people
out George Romero and this crew of
At one point hundreds of people roll
in and start filming this shit a lot
of the stuff is, it seems to really
be coming off the top of the head.
The zombies are almost
all, like, volunteers.
people who just knew a guy who knew a guy
and decided they wanted to be a zombie.
And so they all kind of came
up with their own characters.
They're just sort of there.
Emily C.: so good.
Ben the Kahn: It's very
Mad Max in that regard.
This very fly by the seat
of your pants filmmaking.
And that especially makes sense,
they're just grabbing random
extras and just putting in
enough makeup to go, Good enough!
Emily C.: Yeah, yeah,
you can see the makeup
coming off of
Ben the Kahn: it is delightful when
the makeup just stops suddenly behind
their ears, or you just get the back
of their neck where there's no makeup.
Jeremy: well, listening to Tom Savini
talk about it, it's funny because,
like, they'd done Night of the Living
Dead and he's like, All right, well,
this one's going to be in color.
What the fuck do we do?
I guess we're going to paint him gray.
And he was like, I hate it, I hate
that I came up with that, I wish
I hadn't done that, it was really
Ben the Kahn: They're blue!
They look blue!
Jeremy: like, however you shoot them,
sometimes they look green, sometimes they
look blue, like it's really, it's really
bad for photography and also like, At
the beginning, they were painting up a
couple of zombies here and there, and by
the end of this, like, they have these
big swarms of zombies, and there's just,
you know, just a dude who's a friend
of a friend of a friend who are, like,
coming in to do this, these bits, and
so they're, like, these things that used
to take, like, two or three hours to
get people ready, they're trying to bust
through, like, a hundred of these guys in
a day, and they've only got until, like,
the mall reopens to get all this stuff
Emily C.: Yeah,
Jeremy: it's like absolutely panic
inducing from the sound of it.
Ben the Kahn: it sounds it, and
again, the degree to which so many
of them, especially the scarier it's
supposed to be and the more swarming
it's supposed to be, the more they're
just like, shambling blue people.
Like, I wanna digitally insert Tobias
Funke from Arrested Development.
Emily C.: And they all, all the
zombies were like, they were themed,
Jeremy: Nurse zombie, Hari Krishna zombie.
Emily C.: like, they're zombie,
Ben the Kahn: number of
Emily C.: baseball
Ben the Kahn: guys of people around
town that fully committed to Yup,
I'm just gonna fucking fall off a
thing, goddamn break my own hip.
Emily C.: Yeah,
Ben the Kahn: Oh, the Harakrishna zombie.
Incredible.
Fuckin Hockey Zom Hockey Kid Zombie.
Jeremy: It just sounded like
Emily C.: like where's
Jeremy: the There's a whole
behind the scenes thing on this
on YouTube, which I guess that
it sounds like they were filmed.
It was filmed while they were getting
ready to release Day of the Dead.
Where they're just like talking about the
way they were shooting this, and they've
just got these clips of like, Romero
and his, DP, like, riding around on a
golf cart, just like, shooting all this
random B footage of zombies that ends up
like, being a good chunk of this movie,
Emily C.: Yep.
Jeremy: it's wild how much
of it there is in there.
why don't we jump into talking about what
actually happens in this a little bit.
I'm sure there will be plenty
of time to, break out of that.
Because, boy, especially these
first handful of scenes, some
stuff really does happen.
Ben the Kahn: Oh boy, does it ever.
Jeremy: Very shortly after Night
of the Living Dead things have gone
very poorly, um, so we, we start
in a TV studio where they're doing
a report about how just basically
fucked everything is at this point.
We're watching Francine, who's going to be
one of our four leads, who is producing.
And, uh, doing some, camera
work on this TV news report.
Emily C.: I love her.
I love her real Asuka cosplay.
It's really on point.
Ben the Kahn: Yeah, Fran Fran Fran's cool.
I like Fran.
Jeremy: Yeah, and, Like I said, like,
this is her first acting gig ever.
Like, just auditioned for it on a lark
decided to do it Told George Romero
stuff that she wasn't going to do.
Like, she just decided she wasn't
going to have Fran scream, Uh,
when she's being chased by zombies.
He's like, no, we're not doing that.
It's like, all right,
Emily C.: Good for her.
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah.
Get
it.
Jeremy: So, um, the news report is going
on while Fran is sitting there filming
this, watching the, the host and the
science expert who is there talking about
how they need, how they need to kill
zombies, the same bit we've heard over
and over and every other zombie movie.
She is approached by Steve
the worst man in the world
Steven, the local weather guy.
He, uh, has a lead on the helicopter.
He knows how to fly it because he does,
you know, traffic and weather and stuff.
And, uh, he's gonna get them out of
there because they, they need to leave.
Things are bad.
They're getting worse.
Fran is, for a while, sure that she wants
to stay and help, but eventually enough
people are just like, fuck it, like, we're
doomed, we're, our, our time is up, like,
we're gonna be switching to, you know,
emergency broadcast soon anyway, so why
not the, why not get the fuck out of here,
Ben the Kahn: That even in this
final hour, they're still just
like, We still just have like,
Fox News style confrontational
television, like, Like, still no clear
communication, still no agreement.
Just pure, just shouting and demands
for attention to our very death.
It's, it's all aged real well
after COVID, I'll tell you that.
Emily C.: My god.
Jeremy: I mean, and, and another bit
that ages unfortunately well is the
scene that follows this, which is
there is a police raid on the projects.
Somewhere nearby, I assume we're
in Philly still at this point,
Ben the Kahn: Yeah, we're, we're,
oh, we're, we're very much in Philly.
Also, don't let the zombiness
fool you, this isn't too out of
the typical for Philly anyway.
Emily C.: Yeah, for a comedy
movie, this raid scene is rough.
Jeremy: is dark because the, the
cops are, are raiding this place and
there's one guy in particular that
is just blowing everybody away, not
stopping to see if they are, zombies or
Ben the Kahn: is there
explicitly to do racist murder.
Emily C.: Yeah, he's,
he's here for hate crimes.
Jeremy: Racism is the special
guest star of this movie.
Like,
Ben the Kahn: you mean the two steps
forward, one step back that is Peter?
Emily C.: Yeah.
Ben the Kahn: An incredible actor
doing his best with a backstory
that just gets more fucked up and
stereotypical with every reveal?
Jeremy: yeah.
Emily C.: Happy
Jeremy: yeah, we'll we'll talk about that.
Basically as we're going through
this, we're following Roger played
by Scott Reinecker, who is a fairly
decent dude within all of this.
He was trying to stop the
guy who is killing everybody.
He's, you know, jumping on his back,
trying to do his best to like stop
this guy who's supposed to be working
with him and in this police raid,
uh, and is just murdering black
and brown people wherever he can.
that guy, Wooley, I think is his
name is the bad guy ends up, getting
shot by somebody else in a mask.
Peter is.
understandably shaken up.
There are people's, uh, heads exploding.
There's a particularly notable special
effect of a guy getting shotgunned in
the head and his his head is just full of
all sorts of stuff that Tom Savini just,
uh, put together in a head mold and then
had blown up, um, in front of everybody.
Ben the Kahn: I just learned
something about Scott Reinecker
that I need to share with y'all.
Emily C.: Please,
Ben the Kahn: Apparently his full name
is, uh, Scott Hale Reiniger Harlan Sahib
Bahadur, the Prince of Ghor, because he
is one of, like, the lat like, the oldest
living direct descendant of the first
American to ever go to Afghanistan, and
apparently that is part of a treaty he
signed that his descendants can forever
have the title of Prince of Ghor.
Jeremy: wonderful.
Emily C.: incredible.
This is why this is this is we're doing
the work here at progressively horrified.
Also listeners.
I just want to on at the top.
We talk about Tom Savini.
If if the name doesn't sound familiar,
how about the name sex machine?
Because that's probably what,
you know, him as, he appeared
in, uh, from dust till dawn.
As said character
Jeremy: Yeah, he is an all
star special effects artist.
I mean, this movie being what
it is, is largely his doing.
Because it seems like George
Romero was like, Hey, we need
some wild shit to go here.
And Tom Savini was like,
Good, I can do that.
Emily C.: Got you, fam.
Jeremy: Came up with
all sorts of wild shit.
So anytime you see somebody do There's
something incredibly gory or weird in this
movie, it is mostly Tom Savini's doing.
Anytime somebody does something
absolutely insane, it's Stavros is doing.
Um, So, as he descends into this
place, he runs into Peter, a fellow
police officer who is a, a black
police officer, who, it seems is
probably the guy who killed Wooly.
That's what we're, I think,
Ben the Kahn: Is absolutely
the man who killed
Jeremy: Yeah, we don't ever see
his face in the first place.
But
Ben the Kahn: We hear that voice yell,
Get out the way, Then he shoots the fuck
out of Wooly, And then that man with
his exact voice and build shows back up.
Jeremy: yeah, so they, uh, they have a
smoke in the basement and they discovered
that these people have been doing their,
like, there's a priest that wanders
in who's like, Ah, well, we tried.
Sorry, guys.
Just tell them that we tried.
And they're like, what?
What the F?
And then they go to, uh, look where
this guy has been, and these people
have been trying to save and give
last rites to zombies, basically.
There's just a whole basement
full of zombies who are tied
up or bound in different ways.
Who are eating pieces of humans
who are trying to bite them.
They basically have to kill
their way through a whole
whole room of disabled zombies.
Ben the Kahn: that's definitely
the point where they're like,
Yeah, fuck it, let's bail.
I I really like this scene because,
I like, the, the sense of societal
collapse Feels very visceral.
Uh, and widespread in this scene, and
it does a good job of showing, like,
just this sense of defeat in actually
solving things in a meaningful way.
Like, you know that, like, all these
people, like, like, at this point, even
in the cities, we vastly Outnumber the
zombies, we vastly outgun the zombies,
any level of basic widespread, widespread
trust and organization, and we would have
all of this solved, but we don't have
any of that, so instead you have plans
that are communicated to communities that
don't trust them, who then don't believe
like what's going on in front of them to
their own risk, which is then met with
Jeremy: Extreme violence
Ben the Kahn: extreme
violence from the state.
And it's just like, This sense of like,
oh wow, any level of basic ass humanity
could've solved this in a better way,
but no, we apparently have none of that.
Of course this was the
only way it's gonna go.
Fuck it.
Fuck it.
Like, it does a very good job making
these characters sympathetic and likable,
while essentially just like, abandoning
their posts and selling out, like,
the responsibility of doing anything
meaningful other than just rank survival.
Emily C.: well, I mean, it's pretty clear
that they, there's a, they have, excuse
me, let me start over, it's pretty clear
that what their choices are and what
their circumstances are, it's not exactly
like, there's, there's not much heroism
they can do at that point,
Ben the Kahn: That's what I'm saying, it's
like, that's what that scene had to sell,
Jeremy: Yeah.
And I, I think it's like,
Ben the Kahn: and it
does a great job of it.
Jeremy: that they don't, they don't vilify
the people who were keeping these zombies,
despite what they're doing, clearly
being wrong on just a like basic level.
Like they're.
They're trying to,
Ben the Kahn: One lady literally
runs into her zombie husband's arms,
Emily C.: She doesn't know he's a zombie,
Ben the Kahn: HE'S BLUE!
THAT MOTHERFUCKER'S BLUE!
Jeremy: yeah,
because, uh, I mean, Ken Frey's
character here, uh, Peter, says
Ben the Kahn: Ken Furee is incredible.
Ken Furee is the fucking
MVP of this movie so hard.
Jeremy: yeah, he says, you know, they
they're doing it because these people
still, like, believe there's respect in
dying, like, they, they want to, they want
to do right by the, their people who have
died and, like, yeah, that makes sense
in a way that a lot of, like, bullshit
and zombie movies doesn't always And
like, so, they're, these two are broken
by the end of the scene, they've just
shot their way through a whole basement
full of civilians turned to zombies who
are gnawing on pieces of human beings.
Emily C.: children
who are gnawing on other children.
Jeremy: it turns out that our,
that our other guy here, Roger
is actually friends with Steven.
He's supposed to be meeting up
with him at the helicopter to, take
off together, to get out of here
and invites Peter to come along.
Peter,
Ben the Kahn: seem
Jeremy: get the fuck out of here.
Ben the Kahn: good friends, but I guess if
one guy's got a helicopter and one guy's
got guns, that's a pretty good team up.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Emily C.: they probably meant let
bygones be bygones at that point.
They probably had like a, like
a falling out, so to speak.
And then, now they're like, oh, you
know, the world is ending and we each
have skills, a particular set of skills.
Yeah, we don't have to worry
about the time that you stole
my girlfriend or boyfriend.
Jeremy: meanwhile, Steve and Francine
have gotten to the helicopter.
They find the police post at the
helicopter not exactly abandoned
so much as everybody is dead.
And they, they almost have a
shootout conflict with a handful
of cops who are making off with
anything and everything they can
and have the plan to Get on a boat.
Their plan is boat.
Ben the Kahn: gonna go down
Jeremy: island.
Ben the Kahn: They're gonna go to Island.
Emily C.: Yeah,
Jeremy: Their plan is
boat, and then island.
And the guy is like, oh,
which island are you going to?
And they're like, fucking one of them.
Emily C.: any island
that we can
find.
Got my nautical theme, Pashmina
Afghan, and we're gonna get on a boat
Jeremy: Luckily as the tension is
building, our two cops, Peter and
Roger, pull up and talk these other guys
out of turning this into a shootout.
They all decide that they're going to live
and go their separate ways and escape.
A thing that will never happen in
a zombie movie again after this.
Ben the Kahn: This is the la This
is the last peaceful encounter with
another group of humans you will see.
Emily C.: in zombie fiction.
Jeremy: Yeah, in zombie fiction, period.
Not just this.
series, but zombie fiction ever.
So they, they get in the helicopter and
take off, unclear exactly where they're
going, probably Canada, like that way.
I don't know what they hope to find
in Canada, neither seemingly do they.
Ben the Kahn: I guess they, they
figured, either they figure there's
no dead people in Canada, or they
figure well surely Canada has to have
their shit more together than we do.
Jeremy: just, just go to
Newfoundland, you won't fucking
see anybody out there, you know?
There's, there's no zombies, there's no
Ben the Kahn: It's too, it's too, it's too
cold, the ground's too hard, they couldn't
get out, the zombies, they got no zombies,
the zombies couldn't claw their way out.
Emily C.: Zombies go extra slow.
Jeremy: yeah, this, this is a difficult
situation it seems not everybody is
entirely familiar with the fact that
helicopters don't fly very fast.
they go short distances very well,
they go long distances very poorly.
So they, they basically fly over
rural Pennsylvania and seemingly
over Night of the Living Dead.
Um, you know, where there are
teams of, of National Guardsmen and
Rednecks working together to just
round up and shoot all the zombies.
They seem to be having a good ol
Ben the Kahn: They seem, they had their
shit together, I honestly didn't know
why they didn't just land right then and
there and be like, hey, can we join y'all?
Yeah, y'all seem to have, like,
they have their shit together.
Emily C.: I think
Ben the Kahn: That seems
to be the group to be in.
Emily C.: may have been the
deal breaker in that situation.
Like, yeah, they're like,
look at that pink mass.
Yeah, look at all those
red necks down there.
Not a brown one in sight.
Okay, maybe we'll skip this one.
Jeremy: And apparently this is the
actual National Guard of this part of
Pennsylvania that Uh, they just showed up
to the National Guard base and was like,
hey, you guys want to be in this movie?
And, National Guard in the middle of rural
Pennsylvania has got nothing else to do.
Ben the Kahn: I love that the
implication here is that Night of
the Living Dead takes place in 1978.
Emily C.: Probably.
Ben the Kahn: just rural.
Emily C.: There was one National
Guardsman who was black that
was amongst them, but still,
Ben the Kahn: And again, we do have
Peter the black SWAT officer, so the
politics are already a little muddled.
Emily C.: yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
So they do they eventually land at a
Ben the Kahn: well do we, do we want to
talk about Fran and Peter's conversation
when they leave the city or do we want
to save that for when we just talk
about race at the end?
Jeremy: let's talk about Peter.
Fran and Peter's conversation.
First of all they're, they're talking
about who they're leaving behind.
And Peter says he's leaving several
brothers behind, and she says the phrase,
Real brothers, or street brothers.
Ben the Kahn: fucking gassed.
Jeremy: Which,
Ben the Kahn: My jaw
hit the fucking floor.
Holy shit, Fran.
Jeremy: And he says, both.
And then he goes on to describe his
real brothers, of which he has two,
One of whom, one of this black man's
brothers is in jail, And the other
one is a professional ball player.
Emily C.: In another,
Ben the Kahn: a a a a a a a
a
a a a a a
Jeremy: point, Alicia looked over at me
and was like, what the fuck is this movie?
Ben the Kahn: We will get one more
piece of this man's family tree, and it
is his voodoo practicing grandfather.
Jeremy: yeah, George Romero, to
his credit, was incredibly good at
opening good parts to black actors.
I mean, Night of the Living Dead is
an incredibly politically interested
and, and like anti racism movie, you
know, with a black lead character.
Who literally just dies for, for
being black at the end of the movie.
Goes through all kinds of
shit and ends up dying anyway.
And Peter, he is a good guy within this.
But every piece of background around Peter
is something that like, If this movie
were made today, absolutely unacceptable.
Like,
Emily C.: part of me wonders if he was
making that shit up because, because
it's so, it's so tongue, I don't
think it was, I don't, I think it was
supposed to be played like genuine,
but like after that conversation
of are they real brothers or street
brothers, that's when I feel like it,
Ben the Kahn: Someone needed to
pull a Harrison Ford on that set.
Emily C.: yeah, but like also I feel like
it would be something that somebody would
say to make fun of the white person.
that they're talking to.
It's like, oh yeah, yeah,
I have two brothers.
One's a drug dealer and
one's a basketball player.
All right.
Yeah.
Jeremy: what about your street brothers?
Emily C.: Yeah.
Jeremy: yeah, they have this conversation
and in doing, as, as they finish
this, they finish flying over rural
Pennsylvania and they land at the mall.
This is a real mall, it is like we said,
one of the first malls in the country.
Like, they, as they're approaching
it, they, they do call it an indoor
shopping center, which is wild.
A wild way to refer to a mall.
Emily C.: Yeah.
Jeremy: Not inaccurate, but it's
like calling it a beef hamburger.
Um, it's very strange.
And so this, this mall is, is not
overrun with, but full of zombies.
There are a lot of like, zombies in this
just wandering around seemingly like doing
Ben the Kahn: It's a solid tutorial
level of that One zombie video game
that's in the shopping mall, cause
it's, uh, Left 4 Dead.
Emily C.: Yeah.
Is it Left
Jeremy: No.
Ben the Kahn: No, No, it's not.
The one where you can dress like Mega Man.
Emily C.: what is that one called?
What, which one is Left 4 Dead?
Is that
Ben the Kahn: That's where you have
Emily C.: Dead
Ben the Kahn: Dead Rising.
Left 4 Dead is the one where
you got the four person co op.
The point is, they're all
inspired by Dawn of the Dead.
Emily C.: Yeah.
Jeremy: Left 4
Dead is very inspired by this movie.
So yeah, it's and this is where
the like, the incisive criticism of
consumerism comes in of, of just like,
These zombies are not after anybody.
There's nobody here for them to get.
They are, like, doing things that they
would have done when they were alive.
Just sort of poorly.
Like, just going through the motions
in a very, like, Us kind of way.
like
Ben the Kahn: Which is where
we get all our favorite zombies
like Harakrishna Zombie.
Emily C.: Yeah,
Ben the Kahn: Nunzombie.
Emily C.: and nurse zombie,
and baseball player
zombie with his glove on.
Ben the Kahn: that does become plot
relevant at the end of the movie, though.
Emily C.: What, the, the
Ben the Kahn: That they did that,
well no, that they just like,
mimic their motions of life.
Emily C.: Oh, yeah,
Ben the Kahn: When, all of a sudden
there's a zombie that knows something
the zombies shouldn't know where it is.
Emily C.: right.
Jeremy: yeah.
They, they give this like, oh,
it's, you know, it's important to
them in life so that they don't
really know why they're here, but
they just are working on instinct.
And so they immediately
decided to split the party.
Steve is asleep upstairs
and, uh, Fran stays with him.
while, uh, Roger and Peter head
out to, uh, go do, uh, gangster
shit in the mall, find all the
stuff that they don't have in this.
They, they found this little, like,
emergency alcove within the mall that
they're you know, they have an exit from
the roof and there's, it's not easily
accessible by anything but one stairwell.
So they're pretty well
hidden from the zombies.
They could, in theory, live here
off of these emergency, like,
rations and things that are here.
For a long time.
Emily C.: You know, in the mall attic
where they keep the spam, don't you,
like, you, what, like you do, like you
Ben the Kahn: Look, it was
the Cold War, shit was weird.
Emily C.: I, they, apparently the mall
was run by a nuclear reactor, so, like,
who
Jeremy: think like there's some
I think this makes some sense
because they do have like, Emergency
evacuation places like this.
I don't know where I would go if it
were the case, but like given that this
is Apparently one of only a handful
of malls that exist at this point.
It makes sense that it would be this place
the two, rogue cops decided to run around
and go get all the shit that they need.
They start off going for like
real supplies, like food and
blankets and stuff like that.
They end up getting to TVs and radios and
all kinds of other shit in the process.
And they go through several like.
Issues with the zombies.
They are having trouble
getting in and out of places.
They, do a fun thing because they have
a two floor pennies in there where
they have to get back out of the place
to get to their, their hiding spot.
So they go downstairs and bang on the door
down there to attract all the zombies to
the downstairs door and then, you know,
sneak back up through the top one and
make their way through a much smaller
crowd of zombies while they're doing that.
Ben the Kahn: This is such a fun,
like, shenanigans filled sequence.
Emily C.: yeah,
most of this, most of like,
after they get to the mall.
It's all shenanigans, and they start
playing the music with a slide whistle
in it, and boy, is there something of the
Ben the Kahn: Oh, the truck scene
has the most off kilter upbeat music,
Emily C.: Yeah, I mean,
Ben the Kahn: not the craziest
out upbeat music in the movie,
but we'll get to that later.
Jeremy: I mean, all of the music
in here that is licensed in any
way is a product of Dario Argento
and his relationship with Goblin.
You know, because they
put this stuff in later.
Everything else All the weird
music that features, especially
at the end and in this scene, is
all like royalty free shit that,
Ben the Kahn: Of course it is,
it's the cheapest fucking movie
I've ever seen, it's amazing!
Jeremy: yeah.
He's, he's making this on an absolute
shoestring budget and yeah, it's,
it's cheap and it is, it gives
the movie a lot of personality.
Ben the Kahn: I bet the catering
used fucking expired deli
meat this movie was so cheap.
Emily C.: they were using the spam.
That was the, that was
real spam that They
Ben the Kahn: They were
feeding them the rations.
Oh,
well they certainly didn't skimp on
the pie budget, I'll tell you that.
Emily C.: Yeah, imagine,
Jeremy: my next note after this
raid just says, no, Steve, stop.
Which should just be, that could just
be my summary for this whole movie.
No, Steve, stop.
Cause Steve is the fucking worst.
At this point, Steve is like, wakes
up and is like, oh, the other guys
went out to go do cool shit and said
to stay here until they got back.
Well, I'm gonna go out and figure out
what the fuck's going on, cause I'm not
a girl so I don't have to stay here.
And proceeds to run into a zombie,
shoot his pistol into the, like, back
steam steamer room of this place,
and like,
Ben the Kahn: ricochets like eight times.
It's hilarious,
and
it plays like fucking Looney
Tunes ricochet effects, too.
Yeah,
Jeremy: Yeah, it's, it's wild.
Steve
Ben the Kahn: thought for sure he was
gonna shoot himself with his own bullet.
Jeremy: Kind of, I feel like
things would have been better
for everybody else if he had.
Um, so like, he, he ends up trying to go
out and join them and attracting a whole
bunch of zombie attention in the process
and almost getting everybody killed.
They end up treating Steve like he's their
little brother teaching him how to do very
basic survival and illusion kind of stuff
to get back to the place in one piece.
Uh, he's, He should not
be allowed to do anything.
Meanwhile,
Emily C.: The ego is way too
fragile for this situation.
Jeremy: yeah, meanwhile he is sort of left
enough doors open that our Hari Krishna
zombie is able to, like, wander back to
their hiding place and find Fran, whose
only defense against a zombie climbing
the stairs is to run the other direction.
To her credit, this is the part
where, like, the actress was like,
No, she's not gonna scream and
just shriek about the whole thing.
She's gonna try and, you know,
run away and save herself.
Ben the Kahn: I think her,
Jeremy: bad at doing so.
Ben the Kahn: I think, I think in her mind
she's like, no, even, even the apocalypse
I would not be afraid of Hare Krishna's.
I mean, this is kind of her big
action scene in the whole movie.
Emily C.: Runs in confusion.
Jeremy: and until like
the end of this movie.
This is is most of what she'll do.
I mean, she does get in some good
shots or later on that save the day
at a few spots, but that's about it.
Yeah, she I will say this too.
This came up when we were
watching the movie early on.
It is a it is cold where they're at
there, you know in Pennsylvania and
when the movie starts, Both Steve
and Fran have leather gloves, and I'm
like, hey, fucking great idea, fighting
zombies, keep the leather gloves on.
Emily C.: Yeah.
Jeremy: you don't get your hands
bit wear some long sleeves, wear
some fucking jeans, my dudes.
immediately they take the gloves off.
Ken Furet is insisting on punching
zombies the whole movie, um,
Ben the Kahn: oh, okay, the bikers,
I want, okay, no, Ken Furet at one
point in, and I know this is skipping
way ahead and I'll say way more about
this when we get there, Ken Furet is
at one point karate kicking zombies.
Jeremy: oh yeah.
Emily C.: Hell yeah.
Jeremy: The karate kicking
I mind a lot less than,
Ben the Kahn: I apparently owe Michelle
Rodriguez an apology, karate ing
zombies is apparently a time honored
strategy since the Romero days.
Jeremy: yeah,
Emily C.: Whatever
keeps them off you, man.
Especially these are,
these are slow zombies.
Like, I just want to make this clear.
Ben the Kahn: oh, these are very, these
are like the classic slow zombies.
Emily C.: Yeah.
I
Ben the Kahn: You bring up, I'll go like,
how long are they in this mall, because
it is definitely winter when it starts,
and then like, by the end, like, Peter
is just working out and playing tennis
when like, shirtless up on the roof.
Jeremy: yeah.
Emily C.: think he has
some cold resistance.
Jeremy: It is unclear, because
I think, like, it seems to take
place over a long period of time.
Obviously it didn't take that long
to film it as they're just, sort of
Ben the Kahn: It looked like we saw
one month, at least, like, at least
one month of like, a calendar X'd out.
Jeremy: Yeah, for sure.
Speaking of which, at this point
we find out that Fran is pregnant.
She's, uh, of course she is.
Why not?
Uh, but she is, she is refusing
to be their den mother.
She's not just gonna sit around and
take care of everybody and She's, she's,
she wants to be part of the stuff too.
Which they seem to agree to
and immediately are like,
We're gonna go do cool shit.
You stay here.
Right afterwards.
They decided to have a truck rodeo.
If they explained what they were doing
beforehand in this movie, I missed it.
But it becomes clear as the
thing is going on Peter's driving
Roger out to get another truck.
Roger's getting in the truck,
driving it back, and using it
to block the doors of the mall.
So
Ben the Kahn: yeah, so new zombies
can't get in, that way they only have to
deal with the limited number of zombies
that are currently in there, and no
Jeremy: yeah,
Ben the Kahn: get in.
Jeremy: In the process, We don't ever, we
don't ever see Roger do drugs, but Roger's
basic level of operation is on cocaine.
Um,
Ben the Kahn: Oh, Roger's on such cocaine,
he's on like zombie killing cocaine.
Jeremy: yeah, it might just be
that he's that kind of dude.
As I put in the, I put in here,
Roger has some issues and only
some of them involve zombies.
Ben the Kahn: Oh, his, oh my
god, his delivery of like, what
is like, perfect baby, perfect.
Emily C.: Yeah, like, once he
starts shooting zombies, he, like,
he's just going full Nicolas Cage.
Like, maybe
Ben the Kahn: We got her
Emily C.: that Nicolas, yeah, maybe
he's got the Nicolas Cage, that, that
Nicolas Cage Riz, that only requires,
that doesn't require cocaine, it
Ben the Kahn: He must have been broken.
He has been broken by having to murder
a basement full of people and now he
is coping by just becoming a full on
zombie slaughtering machine or trying
to really just being a reckless asshole.
Jeremy: yeah, he really seems to be
aiming his truck at random zombies in
the parking lot as he's driving it.
Ben the Kahn: I do really
love, well that I'm Kay.
Well, if that may, I mean, I would do that
even if I was in a perfectly good mood.
But what I love is that, except for
cases where the body is very much a
mannequin or a doll or, or a doll,
the zombies don't so much get hit
by the truck as just leap backwards
once the truck drives in the air.
Emily C.: Yeah, I will say that
the special effects of people, like
the zombies chewing on somebody's
flesh where they like rip a chunk of
Ben the Kahn: It's so gory.
All the budget went into
just gory as fuck effects.
Emily C.: And it definitely had
that Italian pervert movie, like,
bright ass red blood going on,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Ben the Kahn: Oh yeah,
Emily C.: I love.
It's
Jeremy: talk about,
we didn't talk about
the gas station scene.
Emily C.: Oh
Ben the Kahn: where, where Flyboy
tells Fran to run and she just
stands completely stock fucking
still while a zombie approaches her.
Jeremy: yeah, uh, where we also see a
zombie get the top of its head cut off
by propeller blades, a zombie with an
unusually tall head gets the top of
its head cut off with propeller blades,
Ben the Kahn: I love that so much.
It's fake upper head.
Jeremy: And then Peter has
to murder two small children.
Peter's got it rougher than anybody, and
he, he seems to be hanging
in there for the most part.
But he gets, he gets soared by
two children who are committed
to the bit of attacking this man.
Emily C.: Yeah,
Jeremy: They did not get
the note on slow zombies.
Ben the Kahn: Oh,
those kids acting like they get a candy
bar if they actually bring him down.
Jeremy: Yeah, so anyway, in the process
of this trying to block the doors Roger
gets into trouble, which then gets him
overly wired, and then he gets into
real trouble because he gets bitten
when he fucking drops, drops the keys
to the mall in between the trucks.
Fran, for her part, is
shooting people from the roof.
She makes a couple of good saves.
I don't know what the fuck
Steve is supposed to be doing.
Ben the Kahn: That helicopter is useless.
What is
that
Jeremy: them with a helicopter.
He cannot shoot from the
helicopter, and even if he could,
Steve can't hit a fucking barn.
Emily C.: No, he can not.
Jeremy: so like
he is just
Ben the Kahn: aim.
Jeremy: he is able to sit
in the helicopter and go.
Oh, no.
Oh, no Oh, no
Emily C.: That's bad.
That is also bad.
Jeremy: guess tips Peter off that
something is wrong with Roger by
lowering the helicopter like Unclear.
Ben the Kahn: Was that the
si Maybe that was the signal?
Steve is so bad that if a zombie
is approaching you And the only way
to fend it off is for Steve, who is
aiming directly at it, to shoot at you.
Steve is still the biggest, most
immediate danger to your life.
Jeremy: Yes.
Emily C.: Yes,
Jeremy: Yeah, so Roger gets bitten.
He actually gets a couple of
Small bite to get the chunk of
his leg taken out and then a bit
of his shoulder I believe as well
Emily C.: just a nibble.
Jeremy: yeah, but he uh, he tells peter
like we got a lot of shit to do before
you can afford to lose me And troopers
on to finish lining up these trucks.
Despite a large part of
his calf muscle missing
Ben the Kahn: Oh, just gone.
He will spend the rest of this
movie in a fucking wheelbarrow.
Emily C.: Yeah, I mean,
Ben the Kahn: Hilariously strapped
in with guns and just being
wheeled around this shopping mall.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Emily C.: whatever you can do.
Jeremy: they they managed to get the
the three of them back inside with
all the the doors closed off they
go raid the gun store through the,
the vents that Steve has discovered.
Steve, his one skill in the zombie
movie is or his two skills are
flies, helicopter, reads map.
Like, that's all he's got.
Ben the Kahn: I mean, to be
fair, those are useful skills
if he wasn't an insecure baby.
Emily C.: yeah, but he does teach Fran
how to do the, do helicopter, so she has
a little bit more going on, and to, and,
that she, because she demands, she's
like, I demand, you guys, okay, first of
all, never leave me alone without a gun,
you sons of bitches, what's wrong with
Ben the Kahn: Yeah, that was a good call.
Good call, friend.
Emily C.: Yeah, two, I'm
not gonna be your mommy.
I'm not gonna be your therapist.
I already know, like, I, I, I'm
not, you're not my Lost Boys,
and I'm not your Wendy, okay?
I'm not, this is not how this is gonna
go, and like, I need to be able, and you
need to let me be able, and God bless her.
I just, I love that, and I love that
that was, also the actor's input.
Jeremy: Yeah.
so they, they get back and they decide
to raid the gun store and the apartment
store and get everything that, uh,
That they can, they've got to get
around and lock all the doors now.
And they're going to make a run,
the three guys, They're not going to
bring Fran, but they're going to throw
Roger in the fucking wheelbarrow,
To shoot at zombies as they run.
Fran
Ben the Kahn: Duck Hunt.
Like, that argument got nothing on
actual wheelbarrow zombies shooting.
Jeremy: Yeah, Fran makes, or Fran
makes the astute observation, That
there's a, a fucking prize car sitting
around in the middle of the, And
that they should just drive around
in that to take on the zombies.
They do manage to get to the car, and
they've got Roger shooting out the back of
it as the other two, uh, lock the doors.
They make a pretty good run
of it, get the doors locked.
And then, uh, they decide to just,
like, cut through the, oh, they've
murdered all the other zombies.
They just, we just see them looking over
what's left of the mall with all the
Ben the Kahn: What we skipped is that,
well, we, of course, Jeremy, we have
to skip the killing so we can get to
the exciting part of stacking them
up and putting them in the freezer.
Jeremy: Yeah, I was with them on the
stacking up the zombies and getting them
the fuck out of here, but just dropping
them in a, in a freezer, I feel like,
is a short, that's short term thinking.
Um, It's gonna be a lot more of
a pain in the ass to move once
they're frozen, and you have to
get rid of all these dead bodies.
Ben the Kahn: Thing is an interesting
study in short term thinking.
Like, it's part of what I wonder if
the message of the movie is, they
spent all their time focusing on these
frivolities and capturing hedonistic,
comfortable, modern luxuries instead of
doing what they need to do to survive.
I'm not sure what exactly it is they
should have been doing differently.
Emily C.: Well,
I think they
Ben the Kahn: Like, maybe they should
have been joining a marauding gang?
I don't know.
Emily C.: I think for what they had,
they were, you know, pretty successfully
homesteading, like, once they got
the, the, the situation down, like,
Ben the Kahn: Like, it wasn't a
long term solution, but it did
seem like a medium term solution.
Emily C.: they're not, their
place is nicer than, like, except
for the lack of windows, their
place was fucking nice in there.
They had TV, they had a
dartboard, they had, like,
Jeremy: I believe they painted
the place, they, they really,
Ben the Kahn: They did!
I did like that touch, yeah.
I, I get why Steve got, like, Cause he,
while it 100 percent ended up being his
downfall, I get why Steve felt a certain
sense of ownership and home about it.
Emily C.: Well, I mean, it's one thing
when you're upstairs in your little,
like, hidey hole, and it's another
thing when it's, like, people who,
you know, you keep your hidey hole
secret as these, like, people are going
through, like, putting pies on zombies.
Well, anyway, let's, let's,
let's continue with this.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I mean, cause at this point, like,
Roger's, Roger's in bad shape.
Fran is also in bad shape,
but from morning sickness,
not slowly becoming a zombie.
They do they make probably their best
decision, they, they build a fake
wall over where the stairwell is that
they, that is the only way to access.
where they're at.
So really they're just getting out through
the vents and they have a fake wall there
so nobody knows where it is they go.
Emily C.: Yeah.
Jeremy: so you know, even
if people do raid the mall,
they're still safe up there.
Nobody has any reason to suspect there's
anybody up there unless they are coming
from the ceiling, which is unlikely.
Yeah, they stick the bodies in
the meat locker and then they go
on just like a shopping spree.
They go around and get all
the hats and coats and.
have a great time.
They go to the arcade
and play all the games.
They have a real, they have a real ball.
Up till, uh, you know,
Ben the Kahn: Roger's on a bit of a timer.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Rogers is doing his best with
the time he has left, even if he
has to do it from a wheelbarrow.
He's got a cool
Ben the Kahn: Cause he does
not have a calf anymore.
Jeremy: and he doesn't have a calf
and he's slowly turning into a zombie.
and this is where, uh, we get them
looking over the mall that they
have, Now secured dominance over
and, uh, Ken Foree, delivering the
line there's no more room in hell and
that's why all these zombies are here.
Which is a great line until he follows
it up with, you know, my grandfather
was a voodoo priest and he said that
eventually there'd be no more room in
hell and the dead would just live here.
At which point I just, I
don't know, I just threw up my
Ben the Kahn: You just, maybe just, maybe
just cut that, maybe just cut that scene
a few lines earlier next time, George.
Emily C.: God, because that's, isn't the
hell is empty and the demons are here?
Isn't that like Hamlet?
That's an old quote, and you know,
you don't need to be like Mystical
Voodoo Man to have a quote that
Ben the Kahn: Well that's the
hell is empty and the devils are
here, this is the dead are here.
Emily C.: Sure, but like, again,
you don't, like, maybe my dad
was a professor of English.
Ben the Kahn: It's the ten and
it's the Tempest, by the way.
Emily C.: My bad.
They're all the same.
It's a guy and a girl and a
They're not all the same.
Some are boring.
Jeremy: Neither of those two are boring.
Emily C.: no, those, that's true.
No, I will give you that one.
Neither of those are boring ones.
There's a shit ton of death
and fucking in both of them.
Jeremy: we get to the point
where, uh, we know Roger is dying.
Peter's given the job of sitting
there watching Roger and Roger's
insistent that he's going to do
his best to not fucking come back.
He's going to fight it.
And, um, he dies.
And when he, when he wakes up, he
does seem to, he seems to have some
recognition, but then at the point like
he sits up, he's very clearly a zombie.
Peter shoots him in
the face and that's it.
That's a wrap for Roger.
Steve, meanwhile, they're having
a, they have a romantic dinner.
He and Fran are having some time together.
He decides to propose to Fran, and
Fran, And despite being one of only
two viable men that she knows that
are still alive, she still says no.
which
Ben the Kahn: she's she's so
she's so real for that, honestly.
Jeremy: meta context, who can blame her?
But her like, her point of
view is like, you're only
doing this because it's the end of the
world and you feel like you have to
because I'm pregnant with your baby.
Ben the Kahn: I I feel like this
was all probably, like, a scheme
that, like, Peter and Michael Pol
like, and Flyboy put together.
Like, this whole fake restaurant night.
Emily C.: Oh yeah,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Ben the Kahn: Yeah, there's, again,
like, there's this sense of, cause
they do grow increasingly unsatisfied
and bored with their life at the mall.
Jeremy: Yeah.
After, After, that romantic dinner,
we get sort of like a monotony
slideshow of all the, all the shit
they're doing and hating just,
Ben the Kahn: but, again, like, I'm
not sure what it is that they should
be doing to have more fulfilling
lives in the zombie apocalypse.
They're safe, they're rested, they're
fed, sorry, it's not, sorry, staying
alive isn't more entertaining.
Roger doesn't,
Jeremy: Yeah, I feel like, beyond
finding some way to garden, and
getting more people involved, there's
not too much more they can do here.
Emily C.: I mean, they
did find a way to garden.
They did bury Roger in like, the, plant
spot.
Jeremy: in the fake eating plant
Ben the Kahn: Roger's too, Roger doesn't
get the freezer like everyone else.
Emily C.: No, Roger gets a, an
actual grave, because he's Roger.
Jeremy: Roger's buried, I assume, a
Ben the Kahn: I mean,
that
Jeremy: under the, the fronds.
Emily C.: Yeah
Ben the Kahn: is a theme of the movie, is
humanity, is our cultural attachment to
our death rituals, and our unwillingness
to You know, not necessarily condemning,
but like, humanity's relationship to our
dead and our rituals around the dead, I
think, is definitely an important part
of that move, this movie, like, that's
what drives this, you know, the beginning
of the plot is the same, like, and drive
so much of what makes humanity unable to
work together is People being unwilling
to give, to throw away their death rituals
in the name of just seeing the dead as
this enemy force and not their loved ones
in an important part of the life process.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily C.: and I don't know if this
is there's like a condemnation
of that so much this is the
Ben the Kahn: You know, not
condemnation, yeah, that's not
the right, yeah, observation.
Emily C.: yeah
Jeremy: Yeah.
So this, this whole monotony bit
is, is sort of bookended by Steve
teaching Fran how to, how to fly the
helicopter which is, is important, but
also is sort of their, the beginning
of the end for them because seeing
the helicopter go up and down from
the top of the mall group of nearby
Raiders very, very seventies Raiders.
Decide, oh, well, these guys have
all this cool shit that we could use.
Let's go raid them all.
So they, you know, call them on
the radio and nobody responds.
So they decided that they're going
to get in there, move one of the
trucks and bust open the big bay
doors that are used for deliveries.
So they just do this in the most
dangerous and stupid way possible.
They ride in all their motorcycles
and, uh, everything else.
And just just start going hog wild.
They're killing zombies all over
the place, but they're taking all
the as much cool shit as they can.
Peter is advising Steve to
just like, fuckin watch.
Like, that's all you need to do is watch.
Don't engage, don't shoot
at him, we're way outmanned,
we're hidden well enough,
Ben the Kahn: I feel like this whole
plotline of the Raiders, this is where
we get, this is where we get the plot
structure that has informed all, so
much of zombie fiction going forward,
especially a lot of story arcs, you
know, in something like The Walking
Dead, is this idea that zombies are,
as scary as zombies are, they are an
inherently predictable Solvable problem
and it is only when encountering other
humans and how humans have been warped
by these circumstances that things again
break down that ultimately breaks down.
The zombies might be the kindling on
human destruction, but it's ultimately
still living humans lighting the match.
Jeremy: And this is a big gang it
is worth noting that a lot of these,
most of this gang is made up of actual
Hell's Angels and biker gangs from the
local area.
That they were like, hey, you guys
wanna fuckin come drive your motorcycles
around a mall and be in a zombie movie?
And they were like,
fuck yeah, let's do it.
The, the main people who will, will see
The matter, Tom Savini and Taso Stavrakis
neither of which characters actually
have names, so much as signature weapons.
Uh, Tom Savini's running
around with a sword.
Cutting zombies heads off and Taso
Stavrakis is running around with that
fucking hammer beating zombies down.
The shit obviously goes sideways very
quick, like they start having issues
with the zombies almost immediately,
because they haven't really taken
the same kind of precautions that
Ben the Kahn: Are you telling me
the people buying Zombies in the
Face aren't taking this seriously?
Jeremy: Yeah, they decided
to start pieing zombies.
They're doing all kinds of wild shit,
Emily C.: did they bring that pie
with them?
Or is that like months old
pie that was just chillin
Jeremy: I don't know, I mean, it
seems to all be just whipped cream
and, and cans, so they probably just
put it together at the last minute
Emily C.: There was a team of them just
at the bakery being like, Aw, shit!
Miracle Whip!
Jeremy: yeah, so it's um, it's wild.
They start taking all the stuff
and Steve gets very territorial.
Steve can't see, can't stand to
see them stealing all the things
that he's rightfully stolen.
So like he decides to start
taking shots at a couple of guys.
Of course he misses
because he's fucking Steve.
And of course they start shooting back.
They notice Peter and start
taking shots at Peter who was
happy to just not be Steve.
Not fight people.
Peter's like he's ready to just
retreat and get the fuck behind
the wall where they'll be safe.
But of course Steve is out in the middle
of the fucking courtyard shooting dudes
and getting shot at things are going
real fucking sideways for everybody.
Peter is able to take out several
of the guys, including Toni's Knife
Wheel or Sword Wheeling character.
Who takes a dive off the balcony
into, what you can see if you watch
behind the scenes, is a giant pile
of mattresses and cardboard boxes.
He jumps from the, like, second
floor of the mall onto a giant pile
of mattresses and cardboard boxes.
Emily C.: So he did really, yeah, that
he jumped, like, he did actually jump
off of the second floor of the mall.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily C.: Yeah.
Jeremy: Stavros did really
fucking swing like Errol Flynn
off the, off a rope on the second
Ben the Kahn: What fucking legends?
Emily C.: Right?
Jeremy: They're insane.
Both of them, I think Stavros is the
one who jumped into the front of the
car and rolled over the top as they
were, driving through the mall as well.
So he, he, he played a zombie
that gets hit by a car too.
Yeah.
Ben the Kahn: the few ones that actually
gets hit instead of leaping backwards.
Emily C.: Yeah.
Jeremy: they're
Ben the Kahn: Which is fair because
I think if you gather a bunch of
locals around and then run a car
into them, that's called a crime.
Emily C.: Yeah, yeah, that's That's gonna
cost more money that they don't have.
Ben the Kahn: What, do you think they
have all 50 you need to pay bail?
Get out of here.
Emily C.: Well, in 70s money.
Ben the Kahn: That money could
have been spent putting makeup
on somebody's neck for once.
Jeremy: so, Steve tries to get away once
he's in too deep in this stuff, he gets
shot and tries to make it to the elevator.
He gets in the elevator and
then the power gets cut and
he can't ride the elevator up.
So he tries to climb out the
top of it and make it out.
Unfortunately, this doesn't
work out so well for him.
He ends up getting pulled back
down into the elevator, getting
bit by some zombies in the process.
And, uh,
Ben the Kahn: I do appreciate how he
does not get completely just devoured,
like, He, it is a devouring swarm, and
he actually like, he doesn't make it
out, but he does like, fend them off
to at least, get turned instead of
just being, like, an intestine buffet.
Emily C.: Yeah,
he's, it
Jeremy: they are, when they're within
six inches of him, he can shoot them.
Like, he is able to
pull that off, at least.
Ben the Kahn: He can hit the
broadside of a barn, but just barely.
That's his character arc.
Emily C.: yeah,
Ben the Kahn: He goes from being
the worst shot to being able
to make a shot at six inches.
Jeremy: yeah,
Emily C.: at least he got one shot in.
Jeremy: he gets got, along with a
lot of the other guys the, Stavros
character with the hammer, uh, gets
taken down and then devoured by zombies.
Bunch of pig intestines get
pulled out of his stomach.
That, uh, apparently they, they got from
the local butcher and just, like, stuffed
in a fake stomach so everybody could
Ben the Kahn: That's legendary.
That's incredible.
That, what a, that is the
cheapest, most visceral option.
It's so much, it's so much more
real and awful and gory than
almost any other effect, and it's
also By far the fucking cheapest.
Jeremy: Yeah, and,
Ben the Kahn: George
Romero, you fucking mad lad.
Jeremy: in behind the scenes they're
talking about, like, how, how weirdly
fucking clean the pig intestines are.
Because, like, that was, that was
Stavros answer to this, is just wash
them and wash them and wash them
before you put them next to his skin.
Um,
Emily C.: it's, those things can
give you a lot of salmonellas.
Jeremy: yeah, I mean, pigs got worms, man.
Um, There are some zombies who seem
to be game to, to literally bite down
on this this pig intestine as well.
There's a lot going on in this scene.
Steve emerges from the
elevator now full on zombied.
And he is he's got a whole bit
where like his leg is fucked
up and his neck is fucked up.
So like, Zombie Steve kind of walks
with his head hanging to one side
and like this incredible stumble.
Emily C.: he really does
nail the zombie walk.
Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, this actor's
really doing that shit.
Ben the Kahn: Oh yeah,
Jeremy: yeah, and of course, Steve,
being Steve, in his instinct leads all
of the zombies through the fake wall
to the stairwell to turn everything
even more to shit than it already is.
So, you know, there's just a swarm
of zombies coming up the stairs
to their, their hidden spot.
Peter's taking out guys left and
right, but there's no way that
he can take out enough of them.
He tells Peter, he tells Fran to get to
the helicopter, decides he's going to die
there, and grabs a little Derringer and,
uh, goes into the side room to, to
shoot himself in the head, but then
decides, better of it at the last minute.
Ben the Kahn: does he or is it so
incredibly blatant what the original
ending was, and then when they decided
to change it, but only the last
four fucking minutes of the movie.
The last four minutes of this movie are
from a completely different fucking movie.
Complete with fucking
action hero music and
Jeremy: Fucking A Team, it
sounds like the A Team music
Emily C.: Yeah
Jeremy: Because like, because the,
the original ending of this movie,
which like, it was changed by
George Romero when he was making it.
He decided
Ben the Kahn: Yeah, the
original ending was never even
filmed.
Jeremy: didn't film a different ending,
but like, you can see Fran starts up
the helicopter and decides that she's
just going to stick her head in the
helicopter blades and be done with it.
And she doesn't.
She sees, Peter, Jackie Chan, his
way out of that fucking place.
Emily C.: God,
Ben the Kahn: just wild
Emily C.: jump kick,
Ben the Kahn: they changed the
ending, but they didn't change any
of the setup to the original ending.
So it is literally everything unchanged.
Right up until the moment they're supposed
to kill themselves and then you get
like, like it's a fucking like, Censored,
like, fucked up violent cartoon for
kids from the 80s where it's like the
plane crash becomes like, I see their
parachute coming out, they're okay!
Emily C.: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben the Kahn: Like, it turns on a
Emily C.: 4Kids TV
version What
Ben the Kahn: it's the four
kids, Dawn of the Dead.
It changes on a fucking dime.
Jeremy: tapping the
Derringer on his temple.
Like, watching the zombies come in.
And at the last second is like,
you know what, actually, I'm
gonna shoot this guy instead.
Ben the Kahn: He's like, you know what?
Actually, I think I can take him.
Jeremy: He's chosen the gun that
only has one, one bullet in it.
So he then karate kicks and punches
his way out of, up the ladder, out
of the place and to the helicopter.
And, uh, they get in the helicopter.
fly off, and the ending of this movie
is Peter asking, like, how much fuel do
we have left, and her saying, not much,
and then they fly off into the sunset.
And then we get the, ba dum bum bum,
ba dum bum bum, ba dum bum ba dum
Ben the Kahn: Oh my God.
Emily C.: is the name of that
track because that's like a that's
like a royalty free polka effect
Ben the Kahn: Oh, definitely.
Emily C.: Yeah, I think the first time I
Ben the Kahn: I think it just
comes with every carnival.
Emily C.: there's a lot of music in
this movie that I'm sure comes with
every carnival And I'm I see why
people are scared of that shit like
the 70s are really trying you know
like you remember HR puff and stuff
you remember the fucking What was that?
What were the those guys the
the puppets that were terrifying
I mean, there was Chuck E.
Cheese, but there was the, the, the
set, they weren't like, they were
like an off brand Muppet band, God, I,
now I can't remember any cool names,
because they were like, Banana Splits,
The Banana Splits, yes, The Banana
Splits, do you remember that shit?
Ben the Kahn: I do not,
but let's try to go.
Oh, I hate it.
Oh, burn them.
Set them on fire.
Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
They all look like if puppets
could be on the sex offender list.
Emily C.: yeah, 70s was trying for stuff,
and I think that, like, the, the effects
of psychedelics were evident, I'm glad
that we got past that one, because I think
there's a reason that a lot of people of
my generation have such crazy nightmares,
because we grew up on 80s cartoons
that were made by people in the 70s.
Or like, holdover 70s shit, because
there was some, there was some shit.
But anyway, so, This movie, like those
cartoons and weird kids shows, really
did try and did, but I feel like this
movie has a lot more genuine things to
say, for sure, especially for a quote
unquote comedy movie that begins with,
Like hate crimes on a whole ass community.
Ben the Kahn: Yeah.
Like
Emily C.: shot everyone in that building.
Ben the Kahn: Oh, it is a full on police
massacre of a black and Latino predominant
apartment building in Philadelphia.
Yeah.
Which if you wanna look up some
crazy shit, find out the time the U.
S.
government fuckin bombed its own city in
Philadelphia.
If you wanna see some fucked up shades
of some very similar atrocities.
Emily C.: When was that,
Ben the Kahn: Ooh, good question.
Emily C.: Because I want to know if
this is a direct commentary on that.
Ben the Kahn: Uh, that was the move
bombing in Philadelphia, that was 1985.
Emily C.: Okay, so that
was after this movie.
Ben the Kahn: Yes, yes,
Emily C.: I mean, the shit was happening.
Like, there's a lot of shit
already happening that, you know.
Ben the Kahn: fuckery in Philadelphia
did not begin in 1985, I'm
Emily C.: no, yeah, no.
So do we want to talk about some politics?
More?
Ben the Kahn: Well,
at its face,
Jeremy: I have done the research,
that song is called The Gonk,
Ben the Kahn: oh of course it is,
Jeremy: which was originally
created for children's programming.
Emily C.: Of course it is!
In the
Ben the Kahn: maybe not, maybe
nightmare German children.
Emily C.: I mean, it is a polka.
So,
Ben the Kahn: Yeah, beat it to those
fucking, I'm sorry, German children, I
don't know why I'm being so mean to you.
Yes, I
Emily C.: okay.
It's okay.
Yeah.
And also, some of them
did become cannibals.
So.
Ben the Kahn: Look, statistically
speaking, if you're mean to all
children, eventually you'll find
out that some of them deserved it.
Emily C.: It's pretty safe, I guess.
Ben the Kahn: so, on the face of it,
you have I think consumerism, man's
inability to unite, and just our own
vices and weaknesses leading to true
societal decay more so than the actual
problem we face, I feel like are, some
of the core political themes, and It
sure does nail a lot of it, it feels.
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't
pull any punches, especially
when it comes to the, the racism.
Ben the Kahn: God, no, fuckin Wooly?
Ugh.
Jeremy: yeah, well, there's sort of,
some of the writing is sort of imprecise
in, not being in itself racist.
Um, you know, it's very much
the heart is in the right place
on the, uh, the racism stuff.
And they, they go hard
in, into it, especially at
Ben the Kahn: it's it's some real, uh, he
a little confused, but he got the spirit.
Emily C.: Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, for 1970, and for a movie,
I mean, like, I feel like Night
of the Living Dead, Disgust Race.
A lot more elegantly but
also Night of the Living Dead
Ben the Kahn: Yeah, though, cause
there were, you mean, as in there
were no fuckin voodoo priests?
Emily C.: yeah, there wasn't like
a huge amount of tokenism, tokenism
stacked on this one character.
But, you
Ben the Kahn: No, Peter just has to
bear the burden of, uh, being the
hottest and having the best voice.
Emily C.: yeah,
Jeremy: I I feel like people would burn
me alive for saying this, but, Dawn of
the Dead definitely has sequel bloat.
Like, Night of the Living
Dead is very, like, clean.
It is, very easy to understand
story, like, the zombies are the
imminent threat, but the real
problem is the people in the house.
It's like,
Emily C.: yeah.
Jeremy: pulling it, pulling it
all down, and so like, they very
gracefully and easily put all
that together and illustrate it,
mean it does everything perfectly.
And Dawn of the Dead is uh, much,
wildly more expensive somehow, despite
like, being a very cheap movie.
But like much bigger, as much,
they're trying to say more
and do bigger things with it.
In a way that like, makes it an
interesting watch, but doesn't
necessarily lend itself to clarity.
Ben the Kahn: Did we, have we discussed
how much of this movie is a pregnant
woman smoking and drinking, or are
we just chalking that up to 1978?
Emily C.: I mean, yes and yes.
We didn't talk, we haven't talked a lot
about that, but like the, the fact that
Ben the Kahn: Well,
because it's
Emily C.: is pregnant.
Ben the Kahn: It's not very plot relevant.
Like, she very easily could have been not
pregnant, and it wouldn't have affected
the overall themes or plot, really.
But, there's nothing wrong with
her being pregnant, either.
Emily C.: yeah, well, and she also doesn't
have a moment where she's like, oh, and
the baby's coming right now in the middle
of the zombie raid, you know, which is
what another film would definitely and
probably has done.
Jeremy: just wait,
Ben the Kahn: Oh,
another
Jeremy: about the remake of Dawn of the
Dead,
Emily C.: Oh,
yeah.
Ben the Kahn: I'm I'm sure Oh, gimme
I'm sure Zack Snyder is not one
Jeremy: Visionary Director Zack
Snyder, you gotta say the whole name.
Emily C.: No, I don't.
Jeremy: Visionary Director Zack Snyder.
Ben the Kahn: Look, I will say
this, it is without a doubt
Zack Snyder's best zombie movie.
Uh, another moment I need to talk
about is during the truck getting
the trucks to block the mall entrance
scene, and at one point a zombie comes
up and just starts kinda caressing
Roger's face, and Roger just lets
it for a second before remembering
that he's not supposed to do that.
Jeremy: Roger,
Emily C.: yeah.
Ben the Kahn: else catch
that little zombie caress?
Jeremy: I don't know how much of
this, of this is Scott Reiniger and
how much of it is written into the
script, but Roger is like, genuinely
unstable in like a weird ass way.
Emily C.: Yeah, well, the second
that Roger gets blood on his, on
his body, he's just like, it's
like he never was bled on before.
Like, for somebody who is just
shooting the shit out of all these
zombies, the second that a zombie
bleeds on him, he's like, they made me
bleed, I have blood being bled on me.
It's not my own blood, but even
though I am bleeding my own blood,
I just can't stand like this.
Maybe, you know, that
zombie was on a lot of drugs
when they died.
Ben the Kahn: yeah, it's like
the drug blood got in him and
now he's on just like meth.
Emily C.: Yeah, he's he's a wizard now.
Um,
Ben the Kahn: the other image this
movie gave us, that I wish we'd gotten
more payout for, was Fran just dressing
up as gun toting Marilyn Monroe.
Emily C.: yes, that
Ben the Kahn: That was badass.
Emily C.: good.
Almost
as good
Ben the Kahn: also got, we
also got Peter cosplaying man
with no name and that was fun.
Emily C.: Yeah, there's a lot of good,
a lot of good cosplay in this movie,
Ben the Kahn: Yeah like that's
one of the few things they have
to do is just find clothes and
dress themselves up and look nice.
Emily C.: Yeah, and I'm pretty sure
that Tom Savini is like, I think
that Sex Machine is the same guy.
Yeah.
as this character.
It's just, we just didn't see
his weird codpiece gun, sadly.
Ben the Kahn: I do love the biker who
in the middle of a big zombie fight
stops to get his blood pressure tested.
Emily C.: I mean, he's having a good time.
Ben the Kahn: He's wearing a sombrero.
Emily C.: He's, maybe he's
Ben the Kahn: It It real It really feels
like they started with that We want
a severed arm in the blood machine in
blood pressure machine going 0 over 0 And
then they had to work backwards really
hard to try to find anything to justify
that And this was the best they did
Jeremy: so many of the things in,
in especially the Raider part,
but a lot of it seemed to be
like, This is a real ass mall.
And they were like, what
do we have to work with?
Cause they didn't bring
a lot of the props.
Like, it just seems like
that shit was there.
Ben the Kahn: watching this movie, I'm
very concerned Did they tell people they
were gonna be breaking all the glass?
Did they replace the glass?
Emily C.: Yeah,
Jeremy: Apparently they fucked
up the side of this mall in the
process of doing that explosion.
Ben the Kahn: Incredible
Emily C.: yeah.
I
can't
imagine they
Jeremy: than they meant to.
sound of it.
So, yeah, I don't know, man.
Ben the Kahn: Fuckin mad lad
Jeremy: Yeah, uh,
this, this movie doesn't have
anything to say about LGBT anything.
Um,
other than
Ben the Kahn: Yeah
Jeremy: than Steve being a
little effeminate on occasion.
In a way
Ben the Kahn: No, but Steve's a feminine
in that like Ineffective midwestern
dad who can't fix things kind of way.
Emily C.: Yeah, which is kind of a rough
Ben the Kahn: It's less, he's emasculated,
but it's in a less masculine way
than it is a positively feminine way.
Jeremy: this scene where he's telling
them about the ventilation shaft,
where he's like pointing at the map
so like, Labrador Retriever excited
about doing something right that like
the gesturing and everything of it
feels like I want them to love me.
but
Ben the Kahn: Oh, he's mad insecure in
a way that I really thought was gonna
fuck them over even more than it did.
Emily C.: Yeah,
Ben the Kahn: thought Steve, I
thought Steve would be responsible
for like all of their deaths.
Jeremy: yeah, the, the question
of whether this movie is
feminist or not, I feel like is
Ben the Kahn: No.
it's fine.
Fran's fine.
I mean, Fran's fine.
She's definitely the
most passive character,
but I mean, she's good.
It's not a miso Look, it's not
a misogynist movie, but it's
not exploring feminist themes.
It's not giving us particularly
interesting women characters.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Given, I mean, if, if we take the,
like, Bran is pregnant as sort of
given for a movie like this and just
sort of work from there, I feel like.
They do a lot of interesting
things with Fran.
The actress in particular,
I think, pulls off a lot
Ben the Kahn: Yeah, what there
is, I feel like, all comes from
the decisions the actress is
making, not the movie is making.
It
Jeremy: I, I,
Ben the Kahn: reminds me of Blackula
only having a really interesting nuanced
backstory because the actor demanded,
insisted on that backstory, not because
the writers were actually interested
in exploring the themes of that.
Jeremy: yeah.
Emily C.: I think that the movie
isn't, I mean, it's, it's not not
feminist, but it's definitely, like, for
Ben the Kahn: That's what I'm saying.
It is in no way sexist or misogynist.
Emily C.: yeah, for
Ben the Kahn: There's
nothing anti women about it.
Emily C.: yeah yeah, for what
it is, I think it does a decent
job, and I think that Fran,
Ben the Kahn: It's at zero.
It's not negative or positive.
Emily C.: yeah, and I think what brings
it to zero is, instead of negative.
Is the, the on screen
pushback to the trope that the
character vocalizes, you know,
Ben the Kahn: 100 percent yeah.
Emily C.: yeah
Ben the Kahn: It's those
little lines like you're never
leaving me alone without a gun.
Her demanding to Learn how
to pilot the helicopter,
uh, you know, she is competent and
Responsible and I'm glad she's one of
the two characters that survived, but
I'm sorry my bar for a feminist You
know Again, it's just not explore.
It's just the movies aren't exploring
that it's interested in having this
competent character who's good, who's
likable and good, but it's exploring
these other themes and not particularly,
uh, themes of sexism or feminism.
Emily C.: yeah,
Jeremy: yeah,
it's, it's much more interested in,
in racial justice and class than
Ben the Kahn: 100%.
Jeremy: of this other stuff.
Yeah, and I think having
one female character for the
vast majority of the movies
Ben the Kahn: I mean,
it's,
Jeremy: working in its favor.
Ben the Kahn: yeah, you, I mean, regard,
the message is women unisex be shopping.
She does.
The message is
Emily C.: she does the least
amount of shopping in this movie,
Ben the Kahn: men be shopping too.
Emily C.: yeah,
Ben the Kahn: Men be
shopping like cray cray.
Emily C.: those men were
shopping a lot more than the,
than any, yeah, like, I mean,
Ben the Kahn: they're just
like putting on watches.
I do like they're putting on like rings.
Again, like they're having themselves
like little fashion montages.
Emily C.: yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Ben the Kahn: I do like the scene I feel
like Peter was able to keep the right
mental attitude about it, again, he's
doing exercise, keeping himself physically
active, very much enjoying the food, you
know, nice leather shoes, the clothes,
but as soon as shit starts getting real
and the raiders show up, you see him take
all of it off and put on his old SWAT
uniform, like, ultimate function, like, he
did not have illusions about what it was.
He was enjoying it while it lasted and
was fully able to step back into this
utilitarian role once it was necessary.
Emily C.: Yeah,
Ben the Kahn: Anyway, Peter ruled.
Emily C.: and I guess that is the, I
mean, that is within the scope of what
the movie is really talking about,
and I think has the most, despite
Peter's character definitions you
know, that's a big gold star you tried,
Ben the Kahn: Yeah, because unfortunately
we don't really get, it's not like we
see Peter have a particular philosophy
about this, that by virtue of him
living is proven right, whereas
other characters are proven wrong.
I would say the closest we get is,
again, Peter's maintaining this
place of like, this is a great place
for now, but leave as soon, yeah,
but, let the raiders take it if they
need it so long as we stay hidden.
You know, function first.
Whereas Steven got more lost in
the illusion and treated it like
it was, their home and was defend,
tried defending it like it was their
home and that led to his downfall.
But yeah, like again, I'm not sure if
this movie is saying that there was a
particularly healthy view of consumerism.
Again, you get lots of contrast
with the zombies are shopping
just like the people are shopping.
Who's the real zombies?
But also, the fuck else are they gonna do?
Emily C.: right.
Ben the Kahn: Society's gone!
Emily C.: I mean, I think there
can be something said there where
you have the people who are.
Actually trying to survive and they, you
know, they, there's this distraction.
And how important these
distractions are to us as people.
Especially in times of crisis,
like,
Ben the Kahn: I love my
distractions.
Emily C.: Yeah, like the undead are
wandering around the ball because they.
That's just what they did in life, and,
uh, some of them are still playing it.
Some of them have a baseball mitt and
some of them are still like playing with
a hockey puck but it's their distractions
are become who they are and it's, but it
makes them more human, honestly, like.
It's again, I feel like it's, it's not
so much a condemnation of consumerism.
Is it an observation of, of humanity and
how people really can't just be animals.
And that was another thing about the,
about the definition of the zombies
is that they didn't eat each other.
They did not, they
weren't eating each other.
They were only eating the living.
Ben the Kahn: There's that one scene,
after Steven's turned into a zombie,
like the zombies open up the elevator and
they seem really excited to eat and then
zombie Steven comes out and they all turn
around like looking honestly disappointed.
Emily C.: Yeah.
They're like, Oh, God damn it.
But there seems to be like.
Community there and I feel
like there's this movie.
1 of the things about
Ben the Kahn: Well that's something
that will get further refined and
explored as these movies go on.
Like especially once we get
to like Land of the Dead.
Emily C.: but that's,
Ben the Kahn: If we get
to Land of the Dead.
Emily C.: I feel like this is
the 1st time that the zombies
are people really like that.
We have an idea that these zombies
were people and that people discuss
that and especially when you're
talking about the, the death rituals.
These zombies still have identity
and where does that identity end?
And where does death, where does
their, their death really mean
the end of their soul or whatever?
Like, you know, where,
where is that definition?
And, uh, yeah,
Ben the Kahn: that even as a
zombie, I'll still just be fucking
smacking away at the keyboard.
Even as a zombie, I'm gonna
be so stressed about work.
Fuck.
It sucks.
Emily C.: yeah, well, but it's, it's
all Like muscle memory, there's stuff
to be said there about where our brain
and where our body connects, like, what
part of the brain controls what, You
know, I don't think this movie is really
going in depth about the definition of
the soul or what it means to be alive or
dead, but I think it is cool in the way
that it acknowledges that the zombies.
Are people, the, the zombies
are, flawed like people.
They have foibles like people,
you know, I don't know what it's
trying to say about the Hari
Krishna priests trying to like that,
that is the one that figures it out.
Yeah.
Ben the Kahn: That's just funny.
Emily C.: the, the humor in
this movie is comes from some,
some of that humanity I think.
And you know, it's not
like slapstick funny.
We're not talking, this isn't Zombieland,
of course, Zombieland wouldn't
Ben the Kahn: I don't know.
At one point, Roger fucking vaults,
like, fucking lifts himself between,
like, two trucks and does some
fucking gymkata kicks to a zombie.
Emily C.: Sure, I mean, but the,
it's not, it's not self aware that
Ben the Kahn: Remember the pies?
This movie had literal pies.
Emily C.: Yeah, but there's
also a lot of other stuff.
Ben the Kahn: Yes.
Emily C.: It's not just pies, you know,
we're not talking about the rules.
Ben the Kahn: Oh, I'm gonna make the
movie where zombies can only be defeated
by banana cream pies to the face.
Emily C.: yeah, highly allergic zombies.
Did you know that bananas?
Bananas and naked mole rats
are the two living beings that
share the most chromosome?
No, like, count?
Ben the Kahn: Oh yeah, that's because
bananas evolved into naked mole rats.
Emily C.: And then those
evolved into humans.
Ben the Kahn: Most things go
by Pokemon rules, but every
now and then you get a Digimon.
Emily C.: There you go.
Kitten, velociraptor,
refrigerator with a gatling gun.
Ben the Kahn: You knew exactly the meme.
Emily C.: Yes, absolutely.
Jeremy: So guys, do
Ben the Kahn: I knew you'd have
my back on that one, Emily.
Emily C.: absolutely.
Yes.
Ben the Kahn: fuck yes, I had
so much fun with this movie.
Emily C.: Oh, I do want to ask what
was all of y'all's first, like,
when you first watched this movie?
Ben the Kahn: For this show, this
Emily C.: Okay.
So this week for the show, Jeremy.
Jeremy: It's been a bit.
Uh, I think I watched it
immediately after the first time.
I watched Night of the Living
Dead, which is, I don't know,
about 10 years ago probably.
I think this is the first
time I've seen it since then.
Emily C.: Yeah, this is the first
time I've seen it since I first
saw it, which was on a laptop
in a hotel room at midnight.
At Fanime I was hanging out some
group of people's hotel room.
We're watching out of the living
dead and on this little laptop
Fanime 2009, which I think was that
was the wildest Fanime of my life.
But that was, it was a very, it was
not the extended edition either.
It was a very surreal
experience to say the least.
I think it was a literal dawn when I left
that hotel room and went back to mine.
But, it definitely stuck with me.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Emily C.: a lot of the imagery, at least.
Jeremy: I think like, people gotta
see it because there's, despite all
efforts, there's nothing else like it.
It's, you couldn't make this movie now
without building an entire fake mall.
Like, they wouldn't let you do
this kind of stuff in a mall.
I don't know how they got
Ben the Kahn: They don't
have enough moles anymore.
Oh boy.
Emily C.: I mean, I'm sure there's
some balls that having a movie
filmed in them would help them.
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean it's, the
stuff they got away with in this
Ben the Kahn: No, the level of, like,
ador the level of, like, that every
corner cut and cost saving measure
just makes the movie more charming
is such a rare
Jeremy: like, after watching behind the
scenes stuff and everything on this,
like, I, one of my dearest wishes,
I think, as a creator is for people
to talk about me, the way they talk
about George Romero, because it's just
like, people aren't like, he's the
greatest director that ever lived.
They were like, yeah, he just really
made you want to like do cool shit.
Like George Romero was
a ball to work with.
He was always open to suggestions
from people, like always, was
like, Hey, what if we tried this?
And he'd be like, yeah, do it.
The whole, the whole thing where, like,
they're running down the escalator
and, uh, he slides down the middle
of it, like, that's, that's him.
Like, he came up with that just before
the shot and was like, Hey, George, what
if instead of running down the escalator,
I, I slid down the middle of it?
And George was like, yeah,
give it a shot, do whatever.
And, like, it just seems like people,
like, loved working with that guy.
That this film was made almost entirely
by, like, him, by like there being
enough people who wanted it to happen.
And then like, I guess Dario Argento put
the, the money and then push into it.
And everybody else was
like, yeah, fuck, why not?
Like
Emily C.: Yeah.
Jeremy: he just called up
Tom Savini and was like, Hey,
let's do another zombie movie.
And Savini was like,
yeah, man, let's do it.
Ben the Kahn: I want to be remembered
like Ernest Hemingway for my
reckless driving throughout Spain.
Jeremy: Still time.
Emily C.: polydactyly cats.
I would love to be remembered by my cats.
My cat legacy.
Jeremy: With that in mind,
Emily, what would you, uh, what
would you recommend for people?
Uh, what should people check out after
watching this movie other than your cats.
Emily C.: Oh, I don't actually post enough
of my cats, but if you, if you DM me, I'll
definitely send you a picture of a cat.
Might be mine.
I don't want to dox myself too much.
But yeah cats are pretty great, but if,
uh, you want to watch a movie with some
cats, it's kind of like this movie.
There's so many, I mean, like, all
zombie movies are based on this one.
After a Night of the Living Dead.
However, I am choosing two that
have very specific ties to this.
One is Night of the Comet, which is
the 80s actual like, oh no, we are
actually going to talk about consumerism.
And how, and it's, very, very
tongue in cheek and very funny.
Not, not a, not the perfect
film, not as charming as this
movie for sure, but just a weird.
A weird one.
if you want just the zombiest of
zombie movie comedies, the most campy,
uh, Planet Terror by our beloved
Robert Rodriguez that film is A lot.
I'm pretty sure there's a scene where
they fly a helicopter into the zombie
horde and basically blend them.
They, they Cuisinart them
with the helicopter blades.
Rose McGowan gets a gun leg.
It's, she did it, I, I don't know if
she did it before the dude in Samurai,
in Samurai Jack, but she does it well.
So, rose McGowan, Gunleg,
Elrae Missing Scenes,
Jeremy: Canon bisexuality.
Emily C.: yes,
Ben the Kahn: Oh, we're
always down for that.
Emily C.: yes, yeah
Jeremy: yeah.
Awesome.
Uh, definitely.
Uh, that's something we'll have to
talk about at some point on here as
well.
Uh, despite the, the
sheer messiness of it.
It is,
Ben the Kahn: Well, the messiness is why
we have to talk about it.
Emily C.: it's a happy dance, it's go go,
Ben the Kahn: So, my recommendation,
uh, you know, not gonna be too daring
or shocking, but it is the modern
word in zombie stories, and, uh,
that is, I'm gonna recommend The
Walking Dead specifically the comic
book series, uh, if you want more.
Pure zombie stories that really takes
these themes of societal collapse and
really dives into it Not just in a movie,
but across a hundred plus issues it's The
Walking Dead, you know it, but if you've
never read it now's your jump to do so.
Emily C.: yeah,
Jeremy: The source material for
I think 50 shows at last count.
yeah.
Uh,
what I would recommend, I
have a couple of things.
One of which we have talked about on here.
Uh, actually two of which
we've talked about on here.
If you do want something with a,
maybe even blunter consumerist
message, uh, go watch They Live.
It's also a ball.
It's also hilarious.
It also has a, you know,
anti consumerism message.
And this movie doesn't
have Ruddy Ruddy Piper.
So,
Emily C.: no, or Keith David,
Jeremy: yeah.
I mean, Ken Foree and Keith David, like,
Emily C.: OTP,
Jeremy: they, they talk to each other
for about I think two minutes in
the horror noir documentary and, uh,
I just wanted a whole documentary
of just the two of them talking,
Ben the Kahn: Oh, I bet
they're incredible together
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily C.: Just to listen to,
Jeremy: also, if you want more of
a lot of the same stuff, a little
bit updated, but you don't want to
watch the rest of the, this series,
Which there are at least two more.
Uh, you can also check out 28 Days Later.
I'm sure we'll be talking
about that at some point.
It's, it's good zombie stuff.
It's British zombie stuff rather
than American zombie stuff.
So definitely worth checking out.
Also, if you want something with similar
feelings where the, uh, the female
characters are more than one of them and
are more capable go check out The Descent.
Because we've talked about that on
here and it's that movie fucking rules.
Um,
Ben the Kahn: Oh yeah, it does.
Jeremy: and, and uh, yeah, that
lady kills some fucking creatures.
She kills them
Emily C.: it's a Very relatable
movie about driving a truck
through the woods and crying.
Jeremy: Yeah, everybody loves that.
Everybody wants to do that.
All right, that is it for us this week.
Do you guys want to let people
know where they can find you?
Emily, do you want to start off?
Emily C.: It's mega moth.net
for all your mega moth needs.
I'm also on Instagram, mega moth.
And but right now, as far as
I know, Tumblr isn't scraping
my, a ai, my stuff for ai.
So most of my, more of my art can
be found on Tumblr, mega on Tumblr.
And once that starts scraping,
I'll just put up the glaze.
But, yeah, bigmouth.
net has everything that is important
right now, including my letterboxd.
Check it out.
Jeremy: Right on.
Ben, what about you?
Ben the Kahn: Uh, you can
find me at benkahncomics.
com.
Uh, check out stuff from my newsletter.
And pre order Mr.
Muffin's Defender of the Stars,
coming from Oni Press January
2025, with art by Giorgio Brooks.
Jeremy: Right
Emily C.: So stoked.
I'm already recommending
that book to people.
Ben the Kahn: Thank you.
I appreciate it.
And I will be trying my best
to spend a lot of this fall
just promoting it like crazy.
Emily C.: Yeah.
Jeremy: I know that feeling.
As for me, you can find
my stuff on jeremywhitley.
com.
Uh, you can find.
Me as Jeremy Whitley
on Tumblr and Blue Sky.
You can find me as jrome58
on Twitter and Instagram.
Uh, you can find my new book, Navigating
With You, wherever books are sold.
You can pre order it right now.
It is out in August.
So you may, as you're listening
to it already, be able to just go
to the store and buy it right now.
And we'd greatly
appreciate it if you do so.
It's not scary at all,
unless you're afraid of love.
Emily C.: that's our
Jeremy: Uh,
Emily C.: There's a lot of people I
know afraid of manga, but you know,
Jeremy: not that kind of manga.
Emily C.: oh
Ben the Kahn: a lot of people
I know are afraid of love.
Jeremy: you're afraid of love or manga.
All right.
Ben the Kahn: I'm afraid of fruits
baskets, so that covers both.
Jeremy: so that does it
for us for this week.
Guys, happy 200th episode.
Emily C.: Happy birthday to our show.
Ben the Kahn: 200.
Here's to the next ones.
Emily C.: Yeah, here's
to the next hundred.
Ben the Kahn: There we go.
Let's stay manageable.
Emily C.: Yes.
Jeremy: We're doing it.
We'll keep, going until we run
out of George Romero movies.
Just, you know, every, every hundred
we'll have to talk about George Romero.
After
Emily C.: Yeah, we gotta save them.
Jeremy: After that, we're done.
Thank you, to you guys, and thank
you so much to our listeners.
Uh, we really appreciate it.
And, uh, until next time, stay horrified.