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As a small business owner, you need to be a lot of things to make your business go—but you don't have to be a marketer alone. Join host Dave Charest, Director of Small Business Success at Constant Contact, and Kelsi Carter, Brand Production Coordinator, as they explore what it really takes to market your business. Even if marketing's not your thing! You'll hear from small business leaders just like you along with industry experts as they share their stories, challenges, and best advice to get real results. This is the Be a Marketer podcast! New episodes every Thursday!
Today on episode 62 of the be a marketer podcast, it's another ask Dave episode.
Kelsi Carter:But this one's a little different. It's an ask Dave, Ask Dave edition where we're putting our very own Dave Charest in the hot seat for a change. We'll get a little deeper into that chuckle behind the mic, diving into his journey with constant contact, and highlighting the importance of building authentic relationships. This is the Be A Marketer podcast. Be a marketer.
Dave Charest:My name is Dave Charest, director of small business success at Constant Contact. And I help small business owners like you make sense of online marketing. And on this podcast, we'll explore what it really takes to market your business even if marketing is not your thing. No jargon. No hype.
Dave Charest:Just real stories to inspire you and practical advice you can act on. So remember, friend, you can be a marketer. And at Constant Contact, we're here to help.
Kelsi Carter:Well, hello, friend. This is Kelsi. As you can tell, we're doing things a little differently today. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Be a Marketer podcast. So today, Dave, I wanted to change things up.
Kelsi Carter:I wanted to kind of reverse roles and ask you some more pointed questions, getting to know you, our host, a bit better. You're used to asking people about their businesses, getting to know them a bit better. So I wanted to kinda take time on an episode to get to know the man behind the mic.
Dave Charest:Well, thanks, Kelsi. I have agreed to this, and, we'll see if that was a mistake or not.
Kelsi Carter:Yeah. Hopefully, I still haven't joined after this. So so stay tuned.
Dave Charest:I'm sure you will.
Kelsi Carter:But yeah. So I just kinda wanted to get started with a bit of your background. I know that you were a theater kid.
Dave:Mhmm.
Kelsi Carter:So I just kinda want to see how your involvement from theater and then to Constant
Dave Charest:Contact. Yeah. Sure. So I actually did not get into theater until college time, actually. I was actually a communications major, and I went to I was at UMass Amherst for a while.
Dave Charest:And, I was putting myself through school. I kinda ran out of money, so I took some time off. And then I you know, as I took that time off, I got this job. And then there was 1 day where I was I was actually working, singing packages at 1 of the, top package delivery services. And as I was doing that, I was looking down the aisle sorting packages, and and that was actually a really good job.
Dave Charest:It was like a part time job with full time benefits. But as I was kinda sitting there and doing my thing, I looked across and I saw, like, older people, like, people like my age now. And I was like, this is not the direction I have planned, right, for what I wanna do. And so I was like, alright, I gotta figure something out. And so they had a, like, a tuition reimbursement program if you worked, like, a certain shift.
Dave Charest:Like, the overnight shift, you could, you know, get reimbursed for school. So I applied to the local community college, which fun fact, this is where my wife teaches college now.
Kelsi Carter:Shut up, Reese.
Dave Charest:Yeah. Woo hoo. And while I was going to school, I it was, you know, a 2 year degree type of thing. So I was doing a journalism degree while I was there. And then I somehow got turned on to theater while I was there.
Dave Charest:And I had done like the high school play, but I had never really done any like theater stuff. Now, admittedly, I was kind of always the I don't wanna say the clown necessarily. But I was always funny. Right? I was making people laugh.
Dave Charest:Like, that was kind of my thing in, like, you know, growing up. I was like, what can I do to make sure everybody's having a good time? And, yeah, got into theater, fell in love with it, got some leads in the shows that were being done here, had a really good relationship with the, director that was there at the time. And and I always think that's important, particularly as we've been having these conversations with customers and business owners. Right?
Dave Charest:Finding the right people to work with, I think, is really important. And it's really interesting. I mean, even I think, Kelsey, you and I kind of finding each other to to play off of and do these things that we do. It's all really important, and I like when you have those relationships that, I think, inspire each other to work hard and be better, I think, is always important. And that was 1 of those relationships I had with, the director there that was kind of heading up the theater department along with his wife.
Dave Charest:And, yeah, I got really into it. And, you know, it was 1 of those things where we could have a conversation and we getting notes at the end, and then it was like, yep. I know what you're gonna say. I got it. Right?
Dave Charest:And I think that's kind of always been you know, I did sports in high school too. So I always had that mentality of, like, how do you do better? And in theater, there's this, like, rehearsal process that you go through, and, you know, it's 1 of those things that right. Okay. Like, how do I do something different, or how do you change something?
Dave Charest:And then the preparation piece of it that's involved with theater, I think, also has played a big role into the work that I do here is that it's all about preparation. And then kind of leaving that at the door when it's time to do the thing. And so that's why, you know, I I know you know that I'm very big on preparation. Right? I'm doing we're doing research on the guests that we talk to.
Dave Charest:We're doing this and that. I'm preparing a conversation guide, and I'm I'm 1 of those people that I'm constantly running it through my head. Like, how do I want this conversation to go? Not that I'm trying to force anything, but I have a vision for what that may look like so that I can kind of moderate it and or lead it in side so that you can follow follow the threads of where the conversation goes. So this was a long way to get to, started in theater at that time.
Dave Charest:And then, like I said, got really into it. And then I was starting to look at, okay, what do I do after this? And I had applied to some local schools. I actually got a full scholarship for theater to go to a local college out here, but I was like, hey, you know, if I'm gonna do this, and I was at a point in my life where I was like, I wouldn't mind just getting away from home. Right?
Dave Charest:And, you know, grew up in this Boston area. And so I moved to New York, and I got partial scholarships to go to school in New York. Did that, and then, like, worked as an RA and all of that kind of stuff to help kinda, you know, finish it out. But that was kind of my path. And then after graduating school, I was doing theater stuff.
Dave Charest:Near the end of that time in school, I actually met another group of friends who we started a band. And so we got, like, really into playing music.
Kelsi Carter:What was your role in the band?
Dave Charest:I at the time, I was a bass player. And, so I that was 1 of the things I actually picked up when I was at UMass Amherst where, a friend of mine sold me his bass for $5. He was like, hey. You wanna buy my bass?
Dave:And I
Dave Charest:was like, yeah. I'm like, how much? He's like, 5. I'm like, what? He's like, yeah.
Dave Charest:You always seem to like playing it. So I figured, you know, I'm not really playing it much so because he was like, like, more of a guitar player. I was like, thanks. And so that began the boom boom boom boom all the time. But that's also another thing where, I guess, my personality is if anybody knows me and my wife will tell you that I kind of get obsessed with a thing, and then I wanna learn how to master that thing as best as I can.
Dave Charest:Right? And do that. And so I just I'm 1 of those people that I can get, I don't wanna say complacent, but I get comfortable. And I was very good at compartmentalizing work and outside of work life. And so, like, work was just the thing I did to make money at that time.
Dave Charest:And
Kelsi Carter:Yep.
Dave Charest:But it got to a point, you know, at this point, I had met my wife, Reese, who you mentioned, who she's born and raised in Brooklyn. And then we were actually both working there at the same time for a little while. And it got to a point where we actually, we had just had the girls. So I have twin girls for those of you who don't know, but I think I've mentioned before, who are 19 now, which blows my mind. But it got to this point where I was more involved in a little bit more of the craziness that was happening, and it became a little bit more difficult to separate the 2.
Dave Charest:Right? The professional and the personal life. And it got to a point where it was impacting my personal life. And I was cranky. And, you know, I was taking it out on Reese and, you know, and the kids and all that stuff, and they were young.
Dave Charest:And it was just like, I gotta figure something out.
Dave:Mhmm.
Dave Charest:At the time, this would have been, I wanna say, 2005, 2006 time frame where this like, the Internet was really starting to kinda take off. And I then was like, alright. Like, I'm into this. Like, in high school, I participated. And I don't know if you know this, actually, Kelsey.
Dave Charest:This might be something you're actually familiar with. But have you ever heard of DECA? Do you know what that is when I say that? No. So it's short for Distributive Education Clubs of America.
Dave:Okay.
Dave Charest:And it's like, I almost wanna say it's like almost like a vocational thing, but for marketing. And so yeah. And and so I ended up becoming the president of this club. Of course. And, yeah, of course, I did.
Dave Charest:And so shut up. No. So so and, again, a similar situation where the teacher was really amazing, and I had a good relationship with the teacher. Right? Like, I guess a theme in here is, like, a lot of this really boils down to as I'm saying it out loud, right, boils down to relationships with me.
Dave Charest:Right? And so which I think is funny because this is what we talk about with marketing all the time. Right? Is is that's really what it is. And so I, surprise, got really good at this marketing stuff in high school.
Dave Charest:And I was actually I competed at the national level in these competitions that they would have. And I was the 1st person in the school to do this in many, many years. And so we got a trip to California to go compete at the national level and do all this stuff. And so but then I, you know, whatever. I never really kind of followed that path.
Dave Charest:It was just I was good at communicating, hence my going into communications. And I like to I was always the 1, even when I was working at the physical therapy office, where it's like, hey, we need to write something. And to be, like, here, give it to Dave. Dave will write it. Like, so I was always that person.
Dave Charest:Mhmm. And so, again, I got intrigued by the potential in what the internet was really offering, in particular, as social media was starting to take off. And I was kind of a late bloomer in terms of, like, I wasn't, like, on, like, Friendster or what was the other 1? The 1 with the crazy pages? My
Dave:space.
Dave Charest:My space. Right? Yeah. Restid all that stuff, and I was like, no. I'm I'm not interested.
Dave Charest:I'm good. Thanks. And then I think at 1 point, somebody convinced us to start up, like, me to start a Facebook profile or whatever. And I was on there, and and that was probably the least interesting of things. But what I thought was really interesting was how this really, in many ways, like, allowed you to have a voice in a space that you could then connect with people that shared similar interests and do all of that.
Dave Charest:And then, you know, having that theater background, I started to kind of learn more about, like, online marketing. So I was following things like, you know, Copyblogger was a big thing back then. I met someone, Sean D'Souza, who had a site called psychotactics, which I learned a real lot from during those days. So it was like those 2 were kind of my go to places to kinda start to figure this stuff out. And then, like, I started a blog.
Dave Charest:Like, I started doing all of those online marketing moves, which I think these things are a little bit different today. But back then, it was I don't wanna say it was easy, but there was more engagement and real conversation. I think, you know, today, if you look at what's happening, a lot of it can be, you know, somebody's commenting so that they can promote themselves, a lot of that kind of stuff, where this was actually really more about just making connections and doing those things. And so as I was learning and going through this stuff and learning particularly how important email marketing would be and is in the online marketing kind of arena as a whole. You know, I started looking at, again, I come from a theater background, and I was starting to, 1, you would get emails from friends who were doing shows, and then you would always get this random email out of the blue, like, hey, I'm in a show.
Dave Charest:Come see the show. Mhmm.
Dave:And then
Dave Charest:I started subscribing to a bunch of different theater groups and things like that and seeing what they would send. And then same similar. Right? They were just sending emails to say, like, hey, come see the show.
Dave:And I
Dave Charest:was like, wow, this is such a missed opportunity because what you wanna do is really kind of bring people along, like communicate and tell stories and share what's going on with the thing. So I came up with a phrase for this called the journey factor, And I started kind of pitching this and kind of building on this idea. And I kind of positioned it at like so I positioned it as like, imagine you were given free tickets to see a show. And there was a stipulation to go into the show with the free tickets, and it was, like, the hottest show on Broadway. And you could only watch the last 2 minutes of the show.
Dave Charest:So that was the stipulation. Right? So you go in and you're watching the last 2 minutes and, like, the main character dies in these last 2 minutes. And everyone's bawling their eyes out and crying, and you're just sitting there like, what is going on? Right?
Dave Charest:And the reason you're there doing that is because you don't have the same connection as everybody else had to the character because they were there for the journey that this character went on.
Kelsi Carter:Yeah.
Dave Charest:And I would say to people, like, now that situation is a lot similar to what you're doing by just sending people to pay buy tickets. Right? Like, you've been going through this whole journey that no 1 is involved in, and you're just giving them the last 2 minutes and saying, hey Yeah. Come see this show. Oh, that's a
Kelsi Carter:really good example.
Dave Charest:Right? And so instead, what you should do is and I think this even applies today because it's all about storytelling. And theater people have, like, this aversion to marketing anyway. Right? And I'm like, no.
Dave Charest:Like, business people would love to be able to tell stories the way you can as a professional in telling stories. You've actually got the skill set, and all you're saying is buy tickets. Right? And so I would walk people through this idea of and at 1 point, I became the marketing director of, Theatre Out in Astoria, which really gave me the opportunity to start to apply, you know, the theoretical stuff that I was doing, you know, for myself, but also apply it to that setting. And what we did is instead of saying, again, buy tickets, it was, hey, here's the season we're planning for you.
Dave Charest:And then we would have a letter from the executive director who would explain the full thing. Then we would talk to the artistic director, and he would share his vision for each of the different shows. Then we would have the director on who was directing a show. Then we would talk to the costume people, the actors. Right?
Dave Charest:We would build all of this stuff so that 3 months from the opening night of the show, we were sharing little bits and pieces of how this show was developing. And everybody on these lists are theater people who love this stuff. And then so we would get to this point where and then the other thing I think was really interesting what we did was instead of just saying here, buy tickets, we focused everybody on the weekend. And so we would say buy tickets for this weekend, and we would put those 3 dates on to drive people to a particular weekend so that we would get more people buying there versus just letting them kinda pick where they wanted. Now that didn't mean people didn't buy tickets at other times.
Dave Charest:But, again, it focused the action where we wanted to go. And that worked really well for us. And we did the same thing with, like, volunteers. I actually ran a program that was like a playmaking course for young kids, and so the kids would write plays.
Kelsi Carter:That's true.
Dave Charest:And then we would get professional actors to come in to perform their plays. It was so much fun. And but
Kelsi Carter:Oh, that's so fun.
Dave Charest:I kind of use that same approach in my communications with the people that were you know, so, like, here. Here's when we're gonna have rehearsal. Here's what you need to know now. Here's your play. Like, you know, so, like, really kind of doling that out over time and giving people, which I think is important to do today, kind of only the information that they need to know right now.
Dave Charest:So there's something that they can act on and do versus trying to give everybody all of the information. So long way to get to. I started doing that. I parlayed that into I had some speaking things that I ended up doing, like webinar type things, and then I was, you know, got the opportunity to work as, you know, the marketing director at the theater. And at a certain point, my wife and I, we we were like, look, if I was being honest, I learned real fast that, hey, I was really good at this marketing stuff.
Dave Charest:Not so great at the business side of things. Right? Like, managing that. And I think for even for me, you know, my mental health was not good. Right?
Dave Charest:Like, because I thrive on collaboration and being around people and doing all of those things, which is why it's nice that we're kind of hybrid now. Right? Because I like that flexibility. But it just wasn't sitting well with me. Right?
Dave Charest:Like, because I I wasn't able to kind of thrive in the areas that I needed to because I and then, like, the things that I don't enjoy doing, which I'm sure many business owners can agree to, kind of suck your energy. Right? And so it was putting me in a weird place. So we had made the decision to move back to the Massachusetts area because we had the girls. The girls were young, and, you know, I had more family out here.
Dave Charest:And we made that decision, and I actually was going to I had a friend who was hooking me up with a job selling copy machines. Oh.
Kelsi Carter:Cool. Yeah.
Dave Charest:And so I was like, alright, whatever I need to do to get there. Right? Because that's the type of person
Dave:I am.
Dave Charest:You do what you gotta do to get to where you need to be, and then you figure it out. Right? And so that was the plan. Until 1 day, I was scrolling through Facebook, and I saw a buddy of mine that I went to college with at UMass Amherst. And he had worked at Constant Contact.
Dave Charest:And I think he was on the community side of things at the time. And I was like, oh, Constant Contact. I'm like, I mean, that's actually this marketing stuff that I've been talking about, email marketing. Like, I would actually I should see if they've got something going on there. I didn't realize it was in Massachusetts.
Dave Charest:And Mhmm. So I looked on the site, and there was a role for a content developer. And I always kinda tell this as it was the job description read as if it was like, dear Dave, do you do these things? And I'm, like, reading these things, and it was like this and that. And I'm like, uh-huh.
Dave Charest:Yep. Yep. Uh-huh. Yeah. I do.
Dave Charest:I do do that stuff. Right?
Dave:And I
Dave Charest:was like, oh, this is cool. I'm like, this would be amazing because this is like a business that does all the things that I'm talking about. I have been a business owner and I have taught myself how to do all of these things. So I get it from that, like, internal level. And I think that's probably another thing about me that's important is that, like, coming from that theater background, for me, it's all about kind of internalizing the stuff.
Dave Charest:And once I get it in me, like, then it comes out. Right? Like, in a way that I can do things with. So I reached out to him and I was like, hey. Do you know if this job is still open?
Dave Charest:He was like, let me connect you with the hiring manager. Reached out to her, had a little email conversation, applied for the role. We had a 15 minute phone call. I got off that phone call and I said to Reese, my wife, I said, I mean, I'm gonna get that job. Because we just had the best conversation.
Dave Charest:And, like, I was able to share all of these ideas and all of the things that I've been doing and all of the things that I was excited to implement in a time where, like, they had a blog, but it wasn't really doing anything. It was, like, 1 of those types of things. Right? And so Mhmm. Then within 2 weeks, I had come back to Massachusetts to meet with a bunch of people, and then I got the job, and then I had my kids enrolled in school, and then we moved back.
Dave Charest:We rented my dad's house to live in for a while, and Reese was still finishing because she was teaching out there, and so she was finishing up. So we were kind of apart for a while for about 6 months or so until she could come back out. But, like, it just happened like that. And then, yeah, I mean, we're coming up on 13 years later. Still at Constant Contact.
Dave Charest:And it was just really great to, again, apply all of these things that I had been doing at a small scale, I would say, right, to a bigger company, right, that had an audience, right, that had tons of customers. And to be able to see and then work with the people, you know, going through that, Like, you know, people in social at the time was that social was kind of a different beast, and, like, providing content that can be used in those things. Like, we won a content marketing award at a certain point. It just, it felt good 1 to just be like, holy crap. Look what we did.
Dave Charest:Right? My wife and I just like, okay, this is like working. And then, I mean, to be here now talking to you doing this stuff, and again, leaning into my skill set to be able to make this stuff happen. Yeah. Did that answer your question?
Dave Charest:I forgot what the question was.
Kelsi Carter:No. That was great. Like, I just yeah. To see how you've kinda journeyed from I guess you've always had like, yeah, like that communications. And I feel like deep down you're a marketer.
Kelsi Carter:Like, you just like you have like that skillset in you where you're just, you're very good at talking to people, but you're very good at being personable and also connecting with the company and like the business the organization, and just understanding their mission and then understanding what it takes for them to be able to continue that mission.
Dave Charest:Yeah. I wanna add to that real quick because I think that's 1 of those interesting things. And 1 of the things that I always found annoying, I think, with a lot of people that are doling out advice, Right? Is that and which is why I love how we've been doing some of these Ask Dave episodes aside from this 1. But but, you know, where we're actually looking specifically at a particular business and framing the answer to the question for them specifically, you know, with still with limited knowledge.
Dave Charest:But I think oftentimes, so many people are quick to dole out advice or information that they give without actually understanding what the business or the person is actually trying to do or what the person needs to do. And so in general, you can say things, but it's not until you really understand what the goal is and what the strategy is and then who the audience is that you're talking to that you can really say, this is what you should do. Because I could look at something from 1 business. Like, I'll just use content as an example. And I can read that and I could say, well, this sucks.
Dave Charest:Right? Like, I don't like this at all. Mhmm. But if it's not for me, well, I don't have any right to say whether this is good or bad. The only people that do are the people that you're trying to reach.
Dave Charest:Right? So I think of people in, like, technical fields, for example. And oftentimes those folks are very dry, very cut laced. Right? Like, and they love, like, consuming I don't wanna say boring information because, again, it's boring to me, but not necessarily to them.
Dave Charest:Right? And so to me, that's always been the thing is, like, you have to get to know somebody a bit and understand what they're trying to do before you can make a recommendation. Because Absolutely. That recommendation could be completely off. Or the way that you would typically use something because I always argue that best practices are weird, and what you should always be trying to do is figure out your own best practices.
Dave Charest:Because you could probably have someone say the best practice is this. And then you can give examples of that working for people. And then you can find people doing the exact opposite thing, and also seeing success from doing it that way. And so Mhmm.
Dave:That's why I think
Dave Charest:it's always important to take anything that anybody says as, like, oh, okay. That's interesting. But then you've actually gotta look at what that means to apply it for yourself.
Kelsi Carter:Absolutely. No. That's great. So from content developer to director of small business success, how has your role and just your responsibilities, how did that evolve?
Dave Charest:Yeah. So in the middle there, there was, you know, director of content marketing. And at that point, a good opportunity for me to really start to implement some of the things that I wanted to implement that I thought, I feel like my MO has been to kinda take something and then really find where we could improve it and make it better. And, you know, webinars had come under me and things that I have been learning. Again, I'm a constant kind of learner.
Dave Charest:And sometimes I facilitate between I'm in consumption mode where I wanna take in as much as I can so that I can learn and learn and learn. And then I get into kind of creation mode where okay. Now I I don't care to look at anything or read anything. I'm just kind of again, this is kind of like that leave it at the door. I was mentioning it before.
Dave Charest:I'm like, okay, I've got all this information now I need to start applying and doing so I can start to learn. Right? And so and I would say I've I've happily been in creation mode for a while now, which is good because I think that's a good place to be. But so, yeah, I was able to just be the 1 in charge of those things. And I had a very clear vision for what it was that I wanted to do and how we were gonna do it.
Dave Charest:And, again, we were able to build up the webinars that we would do. I mean, we would do those at a time where, you know, we would doing I would argue way too many webinars for a small amount of people. And I was, like, what if we focused on doing less webinars, but focused on really promoting them and then 1 making them awesome. And I would argue that our webinars are best in class today when the team is continuing that with who has that now. And then, you know, we would get the thousands of people coming to these
Dave:webinars and registering for them and showing up. And all of it, part of another thing
Dave Charest:that I kind of applied was this idea of
Dave:1 to many.
Dave Charest:Right? Meaning focusing and talking applied was this idea of 1 to many. Right? Meaning focusing and talking to 1 customer, using that very specifically to create solutions for them, but then stepping back a bit to generalize it a little bit so that other people could take that same kind of framework to use for their businesses. And so I think the first kind of, like, thing that I put this in practice was we did this webinar, and we created a 15 minute marketing series.
Dave Charest:Because we had had a conversation with somebody who was like, look, I don't have a lot of time and I don't, you know, this. And then if I'm gonna do it, I wanna know what I'm doing. And if I'm gonna have somebody on my team doing it. Right? So, like, we took all of that.
Dave Charest:And so then we created this. I actually have a whole presentation on it. 1 of our presentations on email marketing goes through this, and then we call it the 15 minute email marketing plan where tasks take 15 minutes or less for you to do. You have a roadmap for what you're supposed to do, And then it was, like, broken up across these groups. And that was 1 of our at the time, 1 of our most successful webinar series because people were, like, yeah.
Dave Charest:This is exactly what I want. Then at a certain point, I became, I guess, a couple of things. Right? Like, 1, I started going to content marketing conferences, and then I went a couple of times. And then the last time I had gone, I was talking to my director at the time because I wasn't a director yet.
Dave Charest:And I said, you know, if I go to that again, I think I actually should be speaking at the conference because I'm not really getting much from going to it anymore. And then, yeah, as things happen, I was okay. And then next time I was there, I was speaking at it. Right? And so then it became, like, yeah, I think I wanna start speaking more.
Dave Charest:And I just started looking for opportunities to do that, whether they were through the webinars, and then we started doing some more brand related things. And I was the de facto go to for that. And then it just built into, you know, as we got to, you know, fast forward to where we are today, a couple of years ago, we're like, we wanna do more of that. And we used to have a field organization, which we don't have at the moment. And so I was kind of the person that, for lack of a better thing, became kind of like the face of constant contact in many ways.
Dave Charest:And so I represent the company doing speaking events, education. And really, the goal is, and as I've always put it, I think you have to put the customer first in all that you do. And my goal is really just to help small business owners make sense of online marketing and understand and not feel so intimidated by it and implement things that they can do to see some success. And then my hope is always that they'll want to do a little bit more and then take more advantage of the tools that Constant Contact offers to be able to do that. And so, yeah, it just became this role where, alright, what do we do so I can, 1, do things like this and have a more voice within the small business audience and, continue that and, again, continue representing the company.
Dave Charest:And so that kind of led us to where we where we are today.
Kelsi Carter:And were you the 1 that pitched the idea for the podcast? Whose idea was that?
Dave Charest:Yeah. So it's funny. You know, I've done actually, this is the 3rd podcast I've done for Constant Contact. And Uh-huh. Once when I started at Constant Contact, we had done this thing called the Speakeasy Marketing Roundtable and, Constant Contact lore.
Dave Charest:Back in the day, we used to do on every Friday, we had a beer cart that would come around and bring drinks to everybody. And then we would all kind of hang out and have a drink and whatever. And as part of that, I would get a group of marketers, and we would stand around the round table with our drink. And we would, you know, talk about what's going on in the what are the latest headline items. Right?
Dave Charest:Marketing items in terms of that. And so so we did that for a while, and then we we were like, okay, this is cool, but let's do something a little bit more. What do I wanna say, produced maybe? Where we actually spend some time talking to customers. And so we created the Small Biz Stories podcast, and that was 1 where we would actually go on location.
Dave Charest:And we did, I don't know, I wanna say, like, 15 or so episodes of that. And that was good. I actually wish we continue to do that. But at the time, there was stuff going on with the company where, you know, we had basically, my attention was driven other places. And so I had to focus on those, and so that kind of languished a little bit.
Dave Charest:And then but I thought that was really good. But I wanted to find so I had always wanted to do something that was a little bit more with how we were today. And it was almost like a combination of those 2 podcasts in the sense that it was, like, part scripted, I guess, in some ways. But it felt more like talk radio is kind of how I've always envisioned it. Right?
Dave Charest:Where it's like you've got somebody talking about a particular topic. You know, in this case, it was me. Me. And, you know, sharing stories and sharing insights and things that people may find helpful and useful, but then also having a conversation with somebody that's kind of been there, done that. Mhmm.
Dave Charest:But doing it in less of the, I guess, half narrative way. Right? Where we're kind of setting up the conversation. But for me, I've always found, I kind of it's almost like somebody reading a book to me if it's too scripted and I fall asleep. And so but what I love is conversation, and I love listening to those conversations because you almost feel like a fly in the wall many of those times.
Dave Charest:Right? And so I was like, okay. Here's my kind of vision for what this thing will be. And then, yeah, we were like, okay. So 1 of the things so again, here we go.
Dave Charest:Like, what do we need to do? Right? So like, alright. We're gonna have Dave speak more on behalf of the company. We're gonna look for these more opportunities.
Dave Charest:So what do we need to do? We need to raise Dave's profile. How can we raise Dave's profile? Right? While, you know, hosting a podcast becomes a thing that now you can say, like, hey.
Dave Charest:Would you wanna be a guest in this podcast? Or Dave is the host of this thing. Right? So you can start to build that momentum for and I think as we're finding and you're learning now that, like, this somebody described it as a flywheel the other day. You're really creating this content flywheel where now, like, as you're doing these things, you've got all this other stuff that you can create and use.
Dave Charest:And I am using the stories and, you know, presentations and telling those stories when I'm on panels and doing all of those things where we're using that content to share and then add to other content that's being created. And you just learn so much through those things that that was kind of the idea. And, you know, we had looked at the potential of having, like, agencies potentially do it. And then you look at the cost of doing that. And then I don't know.
Dave Charest:I was kinda hemming and hawing. I was like, no. I feel like again, I've mentioned earlier I need to internalize things. And I was just like, I'm a big believer in alright. You need a path, you need a vision, but you don't necessarily know what it's gonna end up like.
Dave Charest:And I think, you know, just recently as this airs, like, we've finally landed where, all right, this is the intro. This is the outro. Right? Like, this is what the feeling is going to be. This is what we're trying to do.
Dave Charest:And now we can hone in on that. But think about, imagine if I waited and we didn't do anything during that time because we didn't feel like it was ready. It's never ready. It's always a thing in development and a thing in process. And I think the same thing is applies to when you're doing your marketing.
Dave Charest:Like, you have to get going because if you don't get going, like, you need to put the reps in. There's a creative element to this. There's a craft to this that you only learn through doing and through internalizing for me. Right? It's how I look at it.
Dave Charest:And so that's where okay. Like, we started doing this and, you know, things started to take off. And I had said early on, I'm like, alright. I wanna create a show that is a show. Right?
Dave Charest:That is not just because at the time, what's a little bit different from starting a podcast now from when we started, like, Small Biz Stories, for example, is everybody's got a podcast. Right? And everybody's doing the same thing. And so how do we get really clear about the people that we're serving, which is our Constant Contact customers in this case? And then how do we provide something of value to them?
Dave Charest:And then how do we differentiate our show from other people's shows? And so I think where we've landed, right, like, this is a show that's really about what it really means to market your business even if marketing is not your thing. Right? And so that's really, I think, where we've landed. And, you know, that's always been the driving force because we knew the people that we were talking to, which are, again, our small business owners first, marketers by necessity.
Dave Charest:But people who have figured it out. We're talking to successful businesses who have used Constant Contact and figured out what to do, and we get into the reality of what that means to be a marketer. And so, you know, I think if there was any You know, not only what we hear from the people that listen, but if there was any, for me anyway, like some validation in what we were doing was, you know, when we got the Webby Award honoree distinction, which I think was I was like, okay. Great. Like, amazing.
Dave Charest:Right? Because I could think, you know, there's an interesting thing here too. I mean, just from the creator, and I'm using air quotes there. Right? Like the creator standpoint is that, like, you know, particularly now, people don't engage like they used to in many instances.
Dave Charest:And it's sometimes difficult to put out that stuff all the time and not always get feedback or know what's and then sometimes it's funny because you don't, every once in a while, like, something will come through and somebody will say something, and you're like, oh, wow. And it's a good reminder that, like, oh, this is having an impact on someone. Mhmm. And I love the conversations that we have. I love producing this show, and I think that's 1 thing that conversations that we have.
Dave Charest:I love producing this show. And I think that's 1 thing that has always stuck with me through all of this. Like, I love the work that I do. I love the people that I do it with, and I'm having a good time. It's fun.
Dave Charest:And I think if it wasn't, I would have to find something else. Because I never understood people that would again, you know, this leads me back to looking and working a job going like, what am I doing? You know, like, this is not the thing. And I'm actually pretty impressed that, you know, again, coming up on 13 years, I'm still doing this and still finding the excitement in it because I love it. Right?
Dave Charest:And I think it you know, again, it it feeds those parts of me that are important and allows me to help and impact other people who, you know, don't have the same skill set.
Kelsi Carter:Absolutely. And I know you always tend to ask other business owners how they measure their success. So I'm curious, for the podcast, what do you look at, and what do you think is successful?
Dave Charest:Yeah. That's a great question because I think, again, it's different. And how I measure it is a couple of ways. I think, 1, as I said earlier, I wanna create a show that is a show that has some production value to it, and feels like some thought has been put into creating this for somebody. And so that's important.
Dave Charest:So for me, it's a lot about the practice, and I'm a big believer in if you do the right things and stay focused on the people that you're trying to reach and helping them become successful, everything else kind of falls in line. So for example, you know, when I'm running the blog, for example, I never looked at it from an SEO perspective. I looked at it from a how do we help people, and who are the people that we're talking? How do we create stuff that's for them? And then the SEO starts to take care of itself.
Dave Charest:Right? And so similar with this, that I feel as though, you know, success for me is how do I have a great conversation with somebody, and then how do we put that together to put that together for the listener? And so, you know, I think I've told you, like, my little tick sheet that I'm paying attention to is, like, when somebody says, hey, that was a great question. Right? Like, how do I have better conversations?
Dave Charest:And how do I get to the things? And then sometimes when I listen back to those things so we can create the episode, I'm always listening for, was there some place that I didn't ask the follow-up question? Was there something else that I what did I miss? Right? So that I'm, like, crap.
Dave Charest:I gotta remember to fix that for the next time. And so it's for those things, it's meaningful. Then it's how does then this stuff infiltrate the other work that we're doing so that we can better tell that story of our customer? Because at the end of the day, I think when you know that, and other people know that, because I think another audience for this podcast is our employees. I really believe I mean, 1 of the things we also do, or I also do, and you work on too, is we do these internal panels, of course, where we're talking to our customers and trying to bring our customers closer to the people that are doing the work within our business.
Dave Charest:I think that's so important. You know, I've I've famously said many times to people, like, the worst thing we can do is lock a bunch of marketers in the room and try to figure out the problems that a bunch small business owners are having. Because we don't have the same responsibilities. We don't have the same pressures, and we don't know what we don't know. And if we think we do, we're losing.
Dave Charest:Because the more we can do to, like, hear it and listen to it, I think that's the big thing, and create things that solve for that. And it means the same recommendations we make to our customers when it comes to marketing is the more you can do to focus on those things that are important with your audience, the more you're going to have the things that you need to kind of take you to that next level. So I'm like, okay. No. This isn't gonna be about necessarily bringing leads, which but it will, right, at some point.
Dave Charest:But it's also this is more about helping our customers become more successful. And so part of the measurement is and we've started to see the you know, now as we're doing some analysis on this, I'm excited to say that as we're exposing people to these things that they have available to them, people who have listened to the podcast are then taking those actions to do those things. And that at the end of the day is the success metric for me. It's not about how many people download it. It's not about those I'm not selling advertising for this podcast.
Dave Charest:Right? So I don't need to worry about that. Again, a distinction that, you know, when you're thinking of a podcast. Okay. We're gonna need to do this.
Dave Charest:We're gonna need to do that. But no. No. What is our goal? What are we trying to do?
Dave Charest:And so the metrics become different. And to me, that's the main 1. Are we getting people to, 1, are we raising awareness of things they have available to them? And then are they taking action and doing those things? And I think that's where we're really focused on moving the needle here and doing that in an entertaining and engaging way.
Kelsi Carter:Mhmm. Have you seen any trends? I'm curious with the amount of people you've spoken to over the years. Just some trends for successful and unsuccessful users.
Dave Charest:Yeah. So, okay. I like it in this way because I hate when people ask about trends when they're like talking about it, like, future focused, like almost like, what's the, what's the trend right now? Like, is it, I always feel like that's like kitschy. And like, I'm like, like, I, I, it just makes me like, I think you're like, yeah.
Dave Charest:You wanna tie into current events and things like that. But I don't love, like, the just do the trendry thing. Particularly right now when you start thinking about, like, social media, for example, and how like, so for example, LinkedIn. Right? Like, that's the channel that I use a lot to try to build my profile, and that's where I'm focused.
Dave Charest:And, you know, now they're trying to add, like, a TikTok element to and so, like, the style of video changes to, like, the 9 by 16 versus the 1 by 1. Right? And so it's like all these, like, stupid little things that you're always trying to have to, like, keep up with and jump through hoops just because they get an idea of something that they wanna try. Right? And so
Dave:Mhmm. And so
Dave Charest:that's why I'm not a big fan of trends because I think at the end of the day, what really happens is we're all people. And the things that make us human and the psychology behind that are always the same. And it's just figuring out how does the tech work to help you communicate with people. Right? So I digressed a little bit there, but that's my kind of belief there.
Dave Charest:Right? But it's just in terms of, like, what I've been seeing in terms of success. I think it's a couple of things. 1, they've got a product or service that is actually beneficial to the people that they're serving. Like marketing is never going to help a business and make a business successful if you have a crappy product.
Dave Charest:So I think that's 1 thing. From there, simple things. They've got a consistent schedule with which they communicate with people. And that means, like, a weekly newsletter or a monthly newsletter, whatever it is that works for them. So they're doing that consistently.
Dave Charest:And then I would say they're also typically really involved in their local communities. If we take it back to that idea of relationships, you know, most people get their business from word-of-mouth, and that you have to be involved. You have to be out of sight, out of mind, which is why the consistency in the digital ways and the consistency with being involved in the community, these are all ways to, again, keep your business top of mind so that when I always say when people think of the thing that you offer, they're gonna think of you first Or somebody asks them about, do you know somebody that does this thing? They're also gonna think of you first. And so that's the simple thing.
Dave Charest:And now what it is is, you know, when you think of technology like Constant Contact, for example, right? We started making that easier for people to communicate with a larger audience that they have in terms of email. And now it's, you know, how do we even make that process of creating an email, creating a strategy, creating a plan across multiple channels? Right? When you think of SMS and social and running an event and doing all of those things, how can we make that easier?
Dave Charest:How can we, 1, not only help people understand why that's important to do, but also make it easier for doing remove that intimidation? Because, again, these are people that, you know, would if you say, hey. You wanna take out the trash? Or do you wanna do some marketing? They're probably gonna pick, you know.
Dave Charest:I know what's gonna happen if I take out the trash. My store is gonna be smell better. Right? Like, you know what I mean? So it's kind of 1 of those things.
Dave Charest:And so those things, I think, you know, a great product or service, a consistent communication schedule, and that involvement in the community. Those really feel like some things that have been highlights for me in the conversations that we've been having.
Kelsi Carter:Awesome. So, Dave, just wrapping up a little bit. But so you I don't wanna give you a bigger head than you have.
Dave Charest:Oh, no.
Kelsi Carter:But it's like I I guess I would say, like Thanks,
Dave Charest:I think.
Kelsi Carter:Just sliding in and joking there. You're like, you're fired.
Dave Charest:No. This this is this is the part, Kelsey. Choose your words wise. This
Kelsi Carter:is the part where we get a cut out. No. So you kind of are, in a way, a face of constant contact.
Dave:Mhmm.
Kelsi Carter:So why Constant Contact? I guess, in a sense of why are you so proud to be the director of success for this company?
Dave Charest:Yeah. Well, I think I touched on it before. I usually say this when I'm speaking at an event too. I love helping small businesses and nonprofits. I'm really focused there.
Dave Charest:And I don't know where that comes from. I just remember being young and looking into stores and seeing, like, somebody standing at a counter behind a shop, and there's, like, nobody in there. And I was always curious as to how does this work? And so I've always been curious about that. So that's 1 thing.
Dave Charest:And so I've also I think, you know, over the years, again, I have leaned into my strengths. And, you know, I think I'm a, I would say a passionate person, and I can get people excited about things and do all of that. And I know that, again, this is a place where a lot of small business owners struggle. And I think small businesses are important. And particularly when, you know, I travel a lot for the company.
Dave Charest:And I say, like, you know, people like, oh, cool. You get to travel. I'm like, yeah. But the places I'm going, like, from airport to convention center and hotel and all that, like, it's disheartening when you see, it's everywhere USA. Right?
Dave Charest:It's the chain restaurants. It's the chain stores. It's all of these things. I'm always interested in where's the local spot? Where's the place that's the local thing?
Dave Charest:Like, what's the small business? Like, because that's where it's all about experience for me, and I love when you can go to a place where, 1, this is a place that somebody would like had an idea and they did it. Kudos to you for doing that. That's important. And then 2, you're something that's unique in a world of sameness, particularly these days.
Dave Charest:And I just think that's, it's important thing to hold on to and help support, and I think that's great. And what's what I love about it is the people that I've never met so many people when I started A Constant Contact where everybody was this really, like, small business small business. Like, how do we help them? How do we do things to help them succeed? And that's still, I think, in many ways what's happening in, you know, Constant Contact been around for a long time now.
Dave Charest:You know? And that's always something that's been there. And then I also think that part of what we've been trying to do is create those tools and resources and whatever it is to help people move forward in that journey, wherever it is that they're starting or wherever they are in that journey, and kind of build on that and get to that next level that they wanna get to. And so I think those are the reasons why I've been attracted to and feel good about with the work that we do because it's meaningful. It impacts somebody creating a life for themself, and that's pretty awesome.
Kelsi Carter:Yeah. No. That is that's a great way to look at it too. So, Dave, thank you so much for coming on and letting me ask you a bunch of questions. I will say something that I just do really admire about you is how you also take steps, like, in your personal life to help you grow in the professional world as well, the way that you have a podcast with your wife.
Kelsi Carter:And I know that you touched on you kinda started it to get a little comfortable with, like, the podcast and speaking and everything like that too. So just taking those steps and also the way that you involve your kids, bringing them into the office, getting them to do presentations, getting them to work in the office, stuff like that. Just getting them comfortable with that business environment, I I think, will definitely go a long way for them in the future. And just you love the work and it really shines through in every episode, but just the growth, I think, of the the be a marketer podcast. And I'm really excited to see where we go with this, and I'm so, so excited to be on the team with you.
Kelsi Carter:I think that we have a good thing going, and I I love that we get to film now and that I get to be on here and you guys get to hear my voice. Definitely a nerve wracking thing, but I I do love it. I love the work we do, And I love speaking to the customers, honestly. Like, the people that we get to talk to and the stories and, like, how they started and just how passionate they are and just the commitment that they have to their businesses is something that makes the work, like, worth it.
Dave Charest:Yeah. It's really inspiring, and I'll say, 1, thank you, Kelsi. I appreciate that. And then also, I'll say, you know, when Kelsey joined the team, being on the podcast was not something that was in the job description. And so I appreciate you being game to jump in and do these things, and I'm excited to see how not only this podcast grows as we continue to do this, but to see how you grow along the way.
Dave Charest:So I appreciate you and and the effort and the ownership that you take over these things, I think is, is really amazing. So thank you.
Kelsi Carter:Thank you. I appreciate that. Let me go cry.
Dave Charest:We're gonna have a moment now, everyone. Very good. Cry.
Kelsi Carter:Well, thank you again, Dave. But if someone has a marketing question for us Oh. Where do they send it?
Dave Charest:Yeah. Well, we're gonna include a link in the show notes, but you can go to the Constant Contact community where we have an Ask Dave post up there where you can go put your questions, and then we'll try to work those into a future episode where we'll actually answer your questions. You don't have to listen to me ramble on and on and on and off.
Kelsi Carter:Unfortunately, I do.
Dave Charest:Hey. That's enough. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Be A Marketer podcast. Please take a moment to leave us a review.
Dave Charest:Just go to rate this podcast.com/bam. Your honest feedback will help other small business marketers like yourself find the show. That's rate this podcast dot com slash bam. Well, friend, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and continued success to you and your business.