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Conversations about things that interest me… until they don’t. Because new = shiny ✨
Featuring cool people and unbridled banter.
Dive in. Jump out. Rinse. Repeat.
Is self love acceptance? Or is it acceptance, but it's also the willingness to say, like, and I'm not perfect, and I'm a work in progress.
Speaker 2:That's where I think it gets really dangerous. It's like, yeah, I'm a great person, and I'm being authentic to myself, but I'm a dick. You know? It's like an excuse for being an asshole.
Speaker 3:The greatest gift you can give to someone is letting them be their truest selves around you. Relieving someone of that mental work is so extremely valuable. Welcome to another episode of shiny for the moment. I'm your host, which I've never said before because I always forget, Erika Hahn Alschuler. Today's Shiny topic is a kind of big one because it's something that keeps bubbling up for me and always rears its ugly head as something that I can't stop thinking about and I've ended up talking about it a lot.
Speaker 3:I've mentioned before on the podcast that I've done values work with my therapist, personal values, professional values, relationship values. And I've also done a lot of personality tests and cognitive tests and I love a quiz. So something that is undeniably important to me is authenticity. But what exactly do I mean when I say I value authenticity? Webster's dictionary defines it as, that is in fact a obvious wedding toast cliche, but it is very relevant.
Speaker 3:I really did look it up because I was curious. To be true to one's own personality, spirit, or character, that's I think we all have a general sense of what it means. We have a broader idea that everyone kind of aligns on. But I think, does it mean being myself, being, quote, real, not pretending to be something I'm not? Or is it about being true to myself all the time or not sacrificing who I am to make other people like me?
Speaker 3:There's there's some nuance in here that I think is at the root of what keeps coming up for me, which is particularly right now, there's this beautiful momentum happening around acceptance and, you know, diversity and equality. And at the core of that is an encouragement to be yourself more now than ever. And that's loud and beautiful and it's a good thing. Right? It's a great thing.
Speaker 3:But I've always prided myself on being, oh, I'm silly. I'm weird. I'm authentic. I'm me no matter what the circumstances and I'm not afraid to be vulnerable. Yet I still have these moments of kind of confusion, internal debate, where I wonder whether I'm being authentic.
Speaker 3:Like, what's running the show? What are my desires? What makes this me versus who I want to be? And so this is this deep question that I had to bring some of my best friends on to discuss with me because it warrants digging in further when you have those moments of dissonance. So I have brought on 2 best friends to join the conversation and dive in with me.
Speaker 3:Courtney Chandler, who you recently heard because I know you're listening to every podcast as a part of our conversation about Pilates and functional movement, and Kristen Wheeler, who I will inevitably call Christy, because, you know, she's Kristen at work, but we know her from her Christy years. She's a marketing exec at the direct to consumer startup, Rothy's, which I'm sure you all know the quintessential flat pointy flat that came about from recycled materials. But now it's a much broader, beautiful rad lineup of accessories and shoes that I want all of the spring collection, Christy. So let's work on that. Let's start there, Christy slash Kristen.
Speaker 3:What do you think of when you think of authenticity?
Speaker 2:I was actually thinking about something you said about, like, always contemplating, am I being true to myself? But we have so many facets to ourselves. So, like, who's to say that you have to be one way outwardly, and that authenticity is only linked to one dimension of yourself. So I feel that too. I'm an extrovert, and I can be always on, but then also that can be exhausting for me and being my true self might manifest quite differently.
Speaker 2:And both You
Speaker 3:wanna sit on a couch and Yes. Sketch out and not talk
Speaker 2:to anyone. True, and I don't think I'm letting one of the, sides of myself down when I, like, indulge in different parts of my personality. You know?
Speaker 3:The multifaceted is such a great way to put it. I was thinking of, you know, different versions of myself, things like that. But the multifaceted personality is a great way to describe it. And it it touches on something that I wanna kinda pin for later, which is how self trust relates to, you know, authenticity because we'll get there if you you trust in yourself that you're not skewing one way, putting on a show or anyone other than yourself, that's just what you are feeling in that moment, and you're going kind of with your gut. You also trust yourself that, oh, when you need recuperation time, you'll let yourself without worrying about what looks like to the outside world.
Speaker 3:Right?
Speaker 2:Well, and do you think authenticity is, like, mostly judged or assessed how you, like, view yourself being authentic? Because I actually kind of think that it almost could be the other ways. I feel like there's almost 2. If you're being actually and exactly what you claim you are, others will view you as authentic. But then you could say the definition is being true to one's inner self.
Speaker 2:But then that's you judging if you're doing that. Mhmm. So there's, like, nobody really knows.
Speaker 3:Really good question because a perfect question. Because when I was thinking about this topic and looking some things up, one of the Psychology Today definitions of, you know, authenticity other than just Webster's that I went to was about observing himself. A person can learn to be more authentic by observing themselves, identifying their values, looking at their choices, and building self esteem. So psychology would argue that it is an internal assessment of being true to yourself and learning to be self aware, to listen to oneself. But authenticity that we talk about in our society today, this is where it gets so interesting is like what you're showing the world.
Speaker 3:Because if there's supposed to be that comparison between what you claim to be and what you are, that requires an observer other than yourself. That's right. But first and foremost, it's making sure that you can listen to yourself and identify what it is that you want to be and then live by those values. Now I wanted to let Courtney add anything. I know we just said a lot, but that came to your mind when I told you we were gonna talk about authenticity.
Speaker 1:I'll probably forget these 2 other things if I don't say them now in response to
Speaker 3:what you're saying.
Speaker 1:The first being the self trust piece. When you started talking, Erica, about self trust, I thought you were gonna go a different way with it. Because when I think of self trust, I think of trusting myself that in any situation, I will show up in line with my values and feeling like myself. And building on what you were saying, Christy, like but that comes out in a multifaceted way. So that doesn't mean that I'm gonna be the same outward version of me in different settings because with some people, I'm, like, super jokey, loud, whatever.
Speaker 1:And then in other social situations, especially in a group, I might notice, oh, this group requires someone that's gonna sit back and listen a little bit more and be a little bit more of an observer. Or there's some days where I show up and I'm like, I'm physically here and I'm exhausted, but, like, I can at least be present. And so to me, it's less, like, self trust, like, that I will know what I need, but I guess that is part of it. For me, it's more, like, I know that I'm being me, and it's just gonna come out in different ways because I'm gonna respond to people differently. But if I'm feeling comfortable in my skin, then I'm being most authentic to myself.
Speaker 1:And then
Speaker 2:is authentically a chameleon.
Speaker 3:Yes. I do like, I like everything that I've been doing since
Speaker 2:I've been
Speaker 3:this weekend.
Speaker 1:I feel like I am an authentic chameleon because I can pick up on other people's energies and vibes, and it pulls different parts of me. And I know that when I'm not in alignment with myself and I'm not actually being authentic, I get pulled too far. Right? But, like, if I can stay in alignment with myself, then I can show up as me
Speaker 2:in each situation. Something like you do know when you're slipping away from your own authenticity. Like, you feel you feel it.
Speaker 3:I I think you can, and I some people can. I want to talk about what that feels like because obviously there's going to be people that are more self aware than others. So there's going to be moments where you're more in touch with more connected with yourself than others. And so I'm so curious what that feels like for you guys when
Speaker 2:Do you think it's as simple as when you realize you've said yes to something you don't wanna do, or is that a different thing? Because I can tell sometimes I've maybe acted on what's expected of me or I'd hoped to feel a different way And then how I'm really feeling, you know, and I've agreed to do something, not even just a social commitment, like a favor or, like, you can tell you've I don't know if it's overextended or you've, you know, tapped into the the wrong part of your facets. I just can tell I get a feeling in my, like, a physical feeling in my chest. My face can get warm. Like, I lose energy for the thing.
Speaker 3:I think that's right. I know my brain could take me down an existential path where it's like, well, but you wanted to be the person that said yes to that. So isn't that your authentic self that wanted to be that person? And is that so wrong? And then kind of going back to, I think, the version of self trust that I was talking about, Courtney, and I love that you had a different take on it of, I know that if I overextend myself and say yes to something that I didn't wanna do, I have trusted myself that if the time comes and I have to have an awkward conversation and I have to get out of it, like, I've been in enough stressful situations where I trust myself that I'll I'll figure out my way out of it.
Speaker 3:So I can just move forward without overthinking, I think is the self trust that I'm aspiring to, that I can kind of move through life being my authentic self in a slightly like less friction y way. I have a little easier to just trust that if I do that or if I end up at the party, I'm in a place in my life now where I can be like, God, I'm tired. I'm gonna go home. You know? And I'm gonna, like, deal with whatever the outcome of that is and kind of trot ahead with that, self trust that I can get through the things if I just kind of let myself act in what feels like a genuine way?
Speaker 3:Cause I think I can definitely agree with you where you you find yourself in a situation. I'm not energized by this. You know? I'm an extrovert when I'm energized, but I'm not energized by this. Maybe it's the people that I realize I don't actually I have limited time.
Speaker 3:These maybe aren't actually the people I wanna be spending my time with, or I'm just too tired and shouldn't said yes, or the activity we're doing is actually pretty boring. And I've had a lot of I've had a lot of anxiety lately, and Courtney and I talked about this around scenarios where the only 2 activities are drinking and talking, because that can go really, really great if you're talking about things you like and you get the chance to dive deep and you get to stay on topics you're interested in. And but if it's small talk bouncing, no real connection, and you lose interest, that's when I'm like, well, I'm either gonna leave or I have to stick around and and have more wine.
Speaker 1:I almost wonder 2 things. 1, and this is like a freshly formed thought, so roll with it here. If being authentic takes self trust, but does safe self trust take self love? When Self esteem and love. Truly love who I am, it's easier for me to show up authentically and to trust myself to show up as myself in any social setting.
Speaker 1:Right? And part of that's, like, knowing how to take care of yourself, back out of things when you have overcommitted or you've, like, stretched yourself outside of that vicinity. I guess for me, maybe, 1, living within my values and also actually find, like, truly loving myself. And then I feel most comfortable to show up as myself, which builds on the second thing. And, Christy, you pointing out 2 different things kind of of, like, outside in and inside out.
Speaker 1:I think that sometimes we may, right now in our society, confuse authenticity with being raw and how we think of being vulnerable and showing up as our raw self. I internalized vulnerability for a long time as showing up as my raw self and, like, sharing my inner things, and that's not always it's like knowing when to show up with what parts of yourself in different settings. I I I aspire to always be okay to be my true self in every setting, but maybe not all the versions of raw totally naked me. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Every version every setting
Speaker 3:is not gonna look the same.
Speaker 1:Right. And not gonna necessarily require that totally raw version of me. And so maybe that's part of it too. We have this external expectation of authenticity is getting confused with what it means to show up as yourself in different settings. And that doesn't always mean raw.
Speaker 2:I might go a controversial route here, but I feel like here I am listening to one of the more beautiful humans I know say I if I learn to love myself and trust myself, and I'm being authentic to myself, and then there's a good output from that. But, like, we are not all Courtney Chandler, and humans are not all Courtney Chandler. So are we willing to say, I think I'm authentic, therefore I am? That's where I think it gets really dangerous. If you're basing it on self love, it's like, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a great person, and I'm being authentic to myself, but I'm a dick. You know? It's like an excuse for being an asshole because I was true. I'm true to myself. And, like, they so many people believe they're right in their beliefs.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? And I don't think we should all go around caring what society thinks of us, but I do think there's some measurement of, like, the right kind of authenticity, or is it truly one of the better ways to measure a human? Because it's so it's so, subjective in a way.
Speaker 3:What I love then, Christy, is that because these things are so hard to define, let's take the morality out of authenticity. It is a value to me that I be true to myself and I value that in other people, but that doesn't mean I have to like them. If you're unaware and you think you're super smart and super likable and entertaining, and really you're hurting people's feelings, that's like lack of awareness. That's not authenticity. But if you are really showing up as your true self, aware of the impacts, okay with the impacts, and it's like, I don't have to love you or wanna spend a lot of time with you.
Speaker 3:I'll say you're authentic. Like, I believe you. So I think you have to take the morality out of it because
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I love what you pushed on, Christy, because it's making me think about, does self love necessarily mean, like, I just accept everything about myself? Right? Like Yes. Is self love acceptance? Or is it acceptance, but it's also the willingness to say, like, and I'm not perfect, and I'm a work in progress, and I recognize my flaws, and I actually wanna be called out on them because I want to keep growing and changing.
Speaker 1:Like, self love to me is not a stagnant place. It's a place of growth. And, you know, that's another thing that we have to unpack and kind of talk through to figure how does that sit. Right? But to me, the truest form of self love is loving myself, accepting myself, and knowing I've got a long way to grow.
Speaker 2:Totally. I I feel like slightly younger generation than myself, let's say, but I I hear the phrase, well, that's my truth. You know? And so to me, that's a little bit of this where you're like, it's dangerous to tell someone that just because you believe it or that you feel that that therefore, it's it's okay, and you're a good person for it. So I think we're all acknowledged.
Speaker 2:It's a package deal to be respected for being authentic. It's not just, you know, having no filter. There's a slippery slope awareness and the, way you make people feel and the downstream effects of being true to yourself or your truth or who you are authenticity, but it's with these other
Speaker 3:attributes. An alignment of values to a certain degree. Right? But values can be controversial too, obviously. Right?
Speaker 3:You know? We talk about rights, sexuality rights, you know, rights about your body and, and religious beliefs. And, I mean, things get really complicated. That's why slippery slope in both directions of, okay, let's be be yourself. If I'm too much, go find less.
Speaker 3:You know? And that spirit that I love that is bringing so much good, but also if my too much is at the cost of someone else's, you know, civil liberties and right to, you know, feel safe and free, like, then then then there is a line you to draw somewhere, and that line is Yes. Complex, to
Speaker 1:say the least. It's like, my truth doesn't negate anyone else's truth. It's just we're all coming at things with different stories and different lenses, and maybe part of that slippery slope is when we forget that one truth is held above others and that we need to make space for a lot of truths in a situation.
Speaker 3:And that all these truth do fit into a societal framework that is hopefully progressing and growing the same way our individual realities are progressing and growing, but that we don't exist in a vacuum. They do exist with other people around us and, you know, impacts to other people.
Speaker 1:It's that introspective work, but it's also how does that exist in community, which goes back to that original point of yours, Christy, we are multifaceted. And sometimes we step up and sometimes we step down. Knowing yourself and reading a room and holding both of those things together, and also acknowledging there's intent and there's impact. You can go into something being, like, I'm being authentically myself, and this is you know? But the impact that yourself that you're bringing is damaging in some way or, you know, hurts others, and it's recognizing, like, I have to own that piece too.
Speaker 1:I can show up as myself. I'm gonna have an impact on this world. And that, for me, is when it goes back to my values. I think when I feel least authentic to myself is when I step out of my values and someone does get hurt or something. Right?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. On that note, I am curious from you guys, what are examples of when you know you're not being authentic anymore? I'll I'll give you mine while you're thinking very recent in work, podcast work that is. This whole energy I'm bringing to this is authentic and, you know, what's on my brain and what I wanna talk about. And I don't need to try to do what I think is right in the podcast world and all this stuff.
Speaker 3:And I I think there's a lot of beauty to that, but that doesn't mean that I have to just record one take and then be like, well, if I'm authentic, I don't edit it at all. And it was like, no, did that say what I wanted to say? Like, you don't communicate as well as you want sometimes. And I ended up recording something 20 times, like my little welcome intro or something, because my gut instinct of how I what I wanted to do to describe my show didn't feel right. And so then I had to edit it.
Speaker 3:That's again required some degree of self awareness and introspection and work. Like, you only have a finite amount of time to do work, emotional work, real work, family work, support work, all these other things we do. And so I have to choose because this podcast is important to me to do the work to really sit and think about, well, what do I want this to say and how do I want this to come out? And once I've done that, then I can know, oh, this felt right or it didn't feel right. And it felt aligned with my values and my intentions and who I am.
Speaker 3:But, it required that work. And I had been foregoing that in the hopes of kinda giving myself an out of, like, this is just gonna be super easy because I'm not gonna edit anything and just let it be so raw. But that's like we already said, that is not equivalent to authenticity.
Speaker 2:No. Honesty isn't authenticity. Rawness isn't authenticity. Like you said, maybe the first version of your outward self nails it. You're like, great.
Speaker 2:But like, it probably doesn't. And part of being authentic to yourself is being willing to edit, look inward, be your own critic, tell yourself when you did great. Like, all of it is the path to it. You know?
Speaker 3:So, that's an example I had. The other example was when I make a joke, and then I realized that the impact of that joke that I thought was gonna, like, bring levity and be funny and, yeah, make people like me and but also make people laugh and connect with others and share a moment, whatever. And and then it feels all of a sudden icky. You know? I'm like, oh, I really didn't mean for it to come off that way.
Speaker 3:I thought someone would understand that I can make this joke just for the sake of making it without actually meaning it, but that's not true. There was truth in it. Whatever. It touched someone in a way that made them not feel great, and it makes me feel so icky. Both of those facets are me, but sometimes they're at odds.
Speaker 3:So any other good examples that have popped up for you guys while I was rambling?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. I noticed it in my job most. If maybe it's like you said, things can be at odds, but being in leadership, I catch myself being almost too casual or too goofy with, you know, my team or where
Speaker 3:Take it one step too far.
Speaker 2:Sometimes. Yeah. Or I catch myself feeling like, ugh, that's not who I wanna be as a leader, and it's a skill I'm working on. So to your point, project like that.
Speaker 3:Confidence. Don't be degrading. I don't know.
Speaker 2:And I don't know. Wait. Well, I don't have to be funny in the room. I can just potentially in this role for me being a little more firm or a little more serious. Like, I don't and it's a little people pleasing, like, I wanna be liked or I'm so used to, like, the the joke I'd crack in a room of friends, I don't necessarily need to.
Speaker 2:And I've definitely grown and it's gotten better, but I still to your point, when I can feel it, oh, I got a little too silly right there for who I want to be authentically kind of as a leader or at work.
Speaker 1:So Almost like how you toggle between Christy and Kristen.
Speaker 2:Yes. Kristen does not make jokes in the boardroom. Then how can you do both? She does a vast English, and she's very witty and smart.
Speaker 1:Exactly. But when I speak English, sometimes it's just Irish or Australian.
Speaker 3:Or it sounds like Jennifer Coolidge a little bit.
Speaker 2:I see it more like Keith Jut out. Yes. And, I look a little like, Austin Powers, but still very smart
Speaker 1:and sweet.
Speaker 3:A lot of for China.
Speaker 2:Oh my god.
Speaker 3:Oh, behave. Oh gosh. I've learned from previous podcasts we should not do impersonations. Christy, you can get a pass. I need to stop trying to do accents.
Speaker 3:But, I think that's exactly what it is, Courtney. Maybe we should give names to our facets so that we can be being authentically Kristen and authentically Christy. And my alter ego is Rica or Ricky or I don't know.
Speaker 1:I also then don't wanna pile on and be like, and then this person said this and that. Right? And so when
Speaker 3:Or even over a green can make it feel icky. Even if you're like, oh, yeah. I know. I know. That feels icky.
Speaker 1:We're, like, really just trying to empathize with the person. But I don't actually, like, want to be agreeing. Like, I wanna empathize but not agree. Or you know? It's, like, often the times when I feel icky is when I don't feel like I'm being authentic.
Speaker 1:Why I should've just done that instead? Or not been so silly or yeah. It's yeah. It's the regret of me showing up outside of how I would like to in that setting.
Speaker 2:And you catch yourself restraining yourself sometimes, and then that can be mistaken as holding your authentic self back or in. But that's where I would argue where confusion comes in. That's not your authentic self per se. It might be a bad habit or
Speaker 3:A part of you that's showing up at the wrong place.
Speaker 2:Or a part of you that might be that is a part of you from trauma or
Speaker 3:from, you
Speaker 2:know, insecurity or not from a healthy place, but nonetheless a part of you. And that's where the argument of, like, well, if it's part of you, let it let the flag fly. Well, no. Hopefully, the louder part inside me that I wanna be authentic to more is the one that isn't gonna talk shit or say inappropriate things or let the negative thing lead, although it could be very real.
Speaker 1:You don't have to fly them all the time, but know that they don't create
Speaker 2:a fly. In your pocket sometimes. Don't bring it to her.
Speaker 3:Have, like, a switchblade of flags, you know, and you just one at a time. 2 at
Speaker 1:a time. Which one? Sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Put them all. Sometimes all the flags are out and you guys are like, here she is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But that's like showed up. Right? Exactly.
Speaker 3:Well, because acceptance of all of someone in a and creating a space I think you sent me a quote about this, about the greatest gift you can give to someone is letting them be their truest selves around you. That is such a beautiful thing of not having to worry about which version or facet of yourself is showing up. That doesn't mean that caring about which pat facet shows up doesn't is inauthentic. It just means relieving someone of that mental work in a safe space and psychologically safe space is so extremely valuable. And that you guys give that to me.
Speaker 3:And I think everyone hopefully listening to this can think about someone that gives them that space and how what what a gorgeous gift is that? Like, that is huge. It really is. To bring things with you that are ugly. And that doesn't mean you're not working on them, but that they're like, quote, bad.
Speaker 3:You can't control that these are parts of you, but you can work on them to align better with your values. And so we're gonna pause here because this is one of the more abstract topics we've covered on the podcast so far. It didn't have quite the same structure and can be a lot to think about and follow. So we're gonna break it up. Join us next week for the continuation of the conversation about authenticity with Kourtney and Christy.
Speaker 3:But for now, love yourself, show up as yourself, be aware of the world you're in, but be the you you wanna be in that world. And enjoy a little gospel of gold by Effie Zilch as always, and have a wonderful day. Bye.