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Believe it or not, Canada is a brand. Last year, Canada came in third, according to a global ranking. Who cares? The rest of the world.
Our brand influences everything from trade and tourism to investment and immigration.
Our national brand is formed by perceptions people have of us. And some of what people think is shaped by media coverage. So, what are they saying about us? Tune in to hear how what's happening at home is making news around the world.
It’s good to have you back for this episode of “What are they saying about us?”
I’m Jessica Brando in Ottawa, Canada.
This week I’m looking at the fall-out from Canada listing Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terrorist entity.
The IRGC is a branch of the Iranian military.
It’s controlled by the most powerful figure in Iran, the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
Canada is only the second country to make this move.
And that’s caught the attention of media outlets around the world.
My guest is Houchang Hassan-Yari.
He’s a professor Emeritus at the Royal Ministry College of Canada, in Kingston Ontario.
His area of expertise is the Middle East, with a concentration on security in the Persian Gulf.
He joined me to tease out why this change in Canadian policy has international implications.
JB: Let's start out. Can you give me a brief sketch of what the IRGC is and maybe connect that to why Canada is targeting this particular branch of the Iranian military with this terrorist designation?
HHY: So why this designation of terrorism by Canada? For a simple reason, because they are actively involved in all aspects of life in Iran. For example, not only they are a military force, but also they are heavily involved in economics, a lot of activities, billions of dollars they manage without any knowledge of government, for example, and so forth, because they directly are under the control of the leader, Khamenei.
They are involved in all social activities. The police force is under their control. And then in the human rights question, obviously, they have their own prison. They interrogate the activists or somebody who criticizes, for example, the Revolutionary Guard or for whatever reason, really, Iran is very well known that first they arrest people and then they look at their books to find out what kind of acts of accusation they have to attach to that to that individual.
So, they were involved in all kinds of activities, not only in the killings of this nature, interrogating and imprisonment and so forth, but also for example, this Ukrainian plane, the Revolutionary Guards, they destroyed that. There are many cases of, in French, they call it enlèvements, the kidnappings, the kidnappings of the opponents of the revolution of the Islamic Republic in Iraq or even in Europe. And a lot of intimidation also going on because they send their agents to different countries, including in Canada, for example, in Montreal, in the Ottawa, Toronto, Vancouver, and so forth.
JB: And I do want to talk more about, you know, the impact here at home as well. Can you tell me what are the tangible ways that this designation as a terrorist entity by Canada will impact the IRGC?
HHY: Is extremely important because Canada is the second country after the US to declare IRGC a terrorist organization. And the Canadian government can prosecute them or those who are associated today or before, their families as well. Because when you are a member, the entire family is a member, and they are all in different ways involved. If you have kids, the kids are involved in the school, for example, spying other kids. And if your spouse is working in an office, then he's spying and so forth.
So they can prosecute, the Canadian government can prosecute them, can expel them, can investigate whatever they have in Canada in terms of house or banking, bank account and so forth. So in other words, Canada has a better, in my view, to protect the Canadians, I would say.
So Canadian government has now the tools to take more seriously or to follow up more seriously or on the complaints that the Iranian-Canadian or Canadian-Iranians have against, for example, harassment of this group, that group, individuals and so forth. In the past, that wasn't the case, I should say. I know of a number of cases where those Iranians complain to the RCMP, for example, against individuals who spy on them, who follow them, and who try to intimidate them and so forth. But they didn't receive much support from the police force here.
Now the situation is different, but also, as I said, now Canada can really or should to have a campaign in Europe, in Australia, in New Zealand, in order to invite those governments to put the Revolutionary Guards on their list of terrorist organizations. Because we know of so many cases, so many cases, and in different countries, where Revolutionary Guards are involved, directly involved in killing and kidnapping and so forth.
But the problem is that the EU government, European authority, doesn't do anything really seriously, tangibly against them. We know that, for example, the mosques or the religious schools that they created, including here in Canada, in Montreal, in Ottawa, in Toronto, and so forth, in Vancouver, they are the nest of spies.
JB: You heard Professor Hassan-Yari talking earlier about the power the IRGC wields inside Iran, and without. He mentioned that it destroyed a Ukrainian plane. Take a listen to these news reports from January 2020.
Montage of News Clips
Canada blames the IRGC for shooting the missiles that took down Ukrainian Airlines flight PS 752 and the 176 people that were on board. With dozens of Canadian dead, the Canadian government was pressured to take action against the IRGC. But that wouldn’t happen for four more years.
JB: Why do you think it took so long for the Canadian government to act? In 2019, the US declared the IRGC as a terrorist organization. As you've been saying, Iran has been a problem for most Western countries for decades now. Why do you think Canada waited until 2024 to actually commit to declaring the IRGC as a terrorist organization?
HHY: Yeah, the Islamic Republic was, as you say, a problem for the Western countries. A worse enemy of the Middle Eastern countries, I should say, as well, because they are active through these mercenaries that they created. We know about them, what they do in the region and so forth.
This is a great question. I don't have really maybe a convincing answer for that. What I know is that many Iranians, they were frustrated because of this inaction.
JB: Just shifting focus a little bit here, my podcast, I like to talk about how Canadian news has an impact around the world. And so this news story about Canada designating the IRGC as a terrorist entity, it was picked up by news organizations around the world. So, when a news organization like the Jerusalem Post runs stories about this designation, what is the impact for, why do people in Israel care about this designation?
HHY: Israel is the prime victim of this one for the simple reason that if you look at the map of the region, Israel is to the west, Iran is in the middle almost, the distance is more than 2000 kilometers between the two. Even before the 1979 revolution, Khomeini, he was in favor of destruction of Israel. And that continues obviously for the past 45 years. Now they have the instruments of the state to do what they preached for so many years. Very early on, they started creating all those, they called them proxies, they called them mercenaries. In 1982 that they created Hezbollah in Lebanon. Why they created Hezbollah in Lebanon? Lebanon has borders with Israel. And then they created other groups in Iraq. They give billions of dollars. The secretary general of Hezbollah in Lebanon, he said that the Islamic Republic gives us everything, from our salary to our missiles.
So billions of dollars go to those groups and this is why the Israelis are interested in what the Iranians are doing. Besides the fact that I think the Islamic Republic is extremely close to build the nuclear bomb and nobody hesitates that if they get it, they will use it against Israel. And that is incredible. But that is the reality. And this is why the Israelis are interested in this one, not only the Israelis, but also the Saudis, for example, and everybody else in the region and outside world. So that is the reason why this news became very, it was spread all over the world because Canada is the second country only to do it, And the consequence is extremely important, but also because of the nature of the group, which is concerned by this decision, IRGC.
JB: Do you foresee any blowback for Canada because of this, whether here at home or internationally?
HHY: In terms of sabotage and other things, it could happen. They have the infrastructure they need here, but also, as you may know, they hire the criminals to do basically what they don't want to do it themselves. I'm not talking about the Canadians, but in Europe, for example, in Sweden, they were hired to assassinate some prominent Iranians there. So yeah, it could happen.
Outside of Canada, we don't have an embassy in Tehran, so they can destroy that nice building, but it doesn't give them anything, obviously.
You know, they never ever honestly took Canada seriously before this designation, none. And because from their perspective, Canada is a small country. Is it negligible, is not the U.S., is not any European country, and so forth. And but it could happen because they, you know, we have already, I believe, today, some Iranian Canadians who are in prison in Tehran, they use them as a bargaining chip for Western countries, give them concessions.
And actually, that's the reason why the Canadian government ask you, are Iranian Canadians come back, the citizens of Canada to come back, because they can easily become bargaining chips in the hand of the Revolutionary Guard and the Islamic Republic. So, a brief answer would be yes. The vigilance should be really the word.
JB: Okay. There's a lot to think about, and it's going to be something worth paying attention to, to see what flows from this decision. Thank you so much.
HHY: Thank you for your interest. Good luck.
JB: Houchang Hassan-Yari is a professor emeritus at the Royal Military College in Kingston, Ontario.
I’d like to thank him for sharing his insights with us here on the podcast.
If you liked what you heard, be sure to subscribe so you can catch more episodes as they come out.
I’m Jessica Brando…I’ll be back here soon with more answers to the question… “What are they saying about us?”