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Lounge Lizards is a weekly premium cigar podcast covering Cuban and non-Cuban cigars, cigar reviews, cigar news, Habanos, spirits pairings, cigar culture, and the business of the premium cigar industry.
Hosted by Gizmo with Rooster, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Bam Bam and the rest of the Lizards, the show combines long-form cigar discussion with honest reviews, industry news, history, travel, spirits, collecting, and conversations with the people shaping the cigar world.
Each episode typically centers around a featured cigar and spirits pairing, with regular coverage of brands including Padrón, Davidoff, Arturo Fuente, Cohiba, Montecristo, Tatuaje, Foundation and more.
Lounge Lizards isn’t a traditional cigar review show. It’s a group of friends sitting around the table, smoking cigars, sharing opinions, telling stories and trying to make sense of the culture and industry around them.
New episodes are released every Tuesday.
Join Lizard Nation and become a card-carrying Lounge Lizard yourself. Email hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and potentially be featured on an upcoming episode.
Welcome to the Lounge Lizards Podcast. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, senator, Pagoda, Grinder, and Bam Bam.
Gizmo:And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some tequila, talk about life, and, of course, have some laughs. So take this as your ninety eighth official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Planet Meet is here once a week. We're gonna smoke a Cuban cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We review the history of Cuaba.
Gizmo:We discuss two football documentaries we watched recently, and we answer a listener email about the ethics of both buying Cuban cigars and traveling to Cuba, all among a variety of other things for the next ninety minutes. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair Tequila Ocho Reposado Barrel Select widow Jane with Cuaba Salamones. A double perfecto tonight from Cuba. It's the Cuaba Salamone. It's a massive...
Gizmo:And, boys, when I say massive, this is massive, 57 ring gauge by seven and a quarter inches long.
Bam Bam:This is gonna be a long smoke.
Gizmo:This is gonna be a long smoke. My gut says this is gonna be a medium affair. Given how much tobacco's in here, I'm hopeful that that's the case, that it doesn't It's kick that heavy, very light. It is. I'm hoping the draw is not a problem.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Some of the reading I did earlier, it does call it a full bodied cigar. Some of the language on some sites. Let's just see.
Gizmo:Well first let's cut this thing. I'm
Senator:with Rooster. It's actually light.
Gizmo:It is. There's not much tobacco in it. I'm hoping that it has good draw and light affair. We'll see. See, we're getting on
Bam Bam:my the cold god, the cold draw is delicious.
Gizmo:Oh wow. It's a complete contradiction from the wrapper. And it's wide open.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Anybody getting peach, fruity?
Gizmo:Mhmm.
Senator:That's there. Bizarrely, you're right. Right? I get it.
Speaker 4:That's strange.
Gizmo:Alright. Now I'm excited. I was very nervous about these just because this is not a little bit of a commitment. This is a lot of bit of a commitment. I even brought another set of cigars just in case that this fell on its face.
Gizmo:It's also a bit It's a listener secret.
Bam Bam:It's a bit ugly.
Gizmo:Yeah. I want the prettiest cigar. Well, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 4:It's rustic.
Gizmo:Right. Alright, boys. Let's light it. The Cuaba Salamone. It's a double perfecto, 57 ring gauge by seven and a quarter inches long.
Gizmo:And we're gonna light that tapered tip at the end and let it open up. So the draw might disappear for little while and come back. See?
Bam Bam:These are tricky to light. You know, if you over light it, you're burning the wrapper.
Gizmo:It's easy to burn.
Speaker 5:Yeah. You just light the tip.
Gizmo:Yeah, exactly.
Bam Bam:And it always... I don't know, this vitola always needs a little touching up for me. It's never gonna get an even burn initially.
Gizmo:Just leave it alone. Just light
Senator:the Yeah, tip the and leave it key with this early on is patience. Slow. It won't burn evenly. If you start drawing too aggressively on it, you've got to just wait and take it slow. And then once it opens up, once it gets to about the wider ring gauge, then you should be in good shape
Bam Bam:all Solid advice.
Senator:But I say that because we smoke a lot of the Padron eightieth, is a similar
Bam Bam:Different wrapper. It's a bit more rugged than this. Yeah, but the shape
Speaker 5:the True.
Gizmo:So the factory code on this thing is BRM March 23. So La Corona factory March 23. And we've been smoking younger Cuban cigars. So that's a new thing for us. Some of the stuff we've been smoking is six months, eight months, four months old.
Gizmo:So for how much tobacco is in this, how big this is, and I would assume how much time the tobacco would need to acclimate to get to a very evened out place as far as humidity wise, I'm hoping that four or five months that we've had them in the tower at about 60, it's going to work out.
Bam Bam:I've to say, it's kind of nice on the draw, the initial draw. Pungent.
Gizmo:What are you guys getting flavor wise? This is
Speaker 4:very medium, smooth. It's not creamy. Definitely got that kind of musty, ashy, cedary flavor.
Gizmo:There's definitely a cedar thing coming off the...
Speaker 4:There's some odd sweetness that I get. Every other second there's a hint of floral and jasmine.
Gizmo:Jasmine. Pretty good pickups. Jasmine.
Speaker 4:You're not getting that?
Gizmo:I like Jasmine.
Speaker 4:I like it too. I'm getting it.
Gizmo:Are you?
Senator:I can see it.
Gizmo:No, it's all working. These are weird. These are odd notes, but they're not wrong. Like these are notes. Peach, Jasmine.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I mean, get some floral, but I couldn't pinpoint like Jasmine. It's not that refined like grinders. Actually I have jasmine plant at home.
Senator:Very
Speaker 5:refined. Flowers at night and puts out those white flowers. The beautiful scent is awesome.
Gizmo:We have them as well. You do? Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 4:You know, recollect. Yeah, I love this. I'm sure it's gonna bomb on me at some point when it gets ammonia y, if it will.
Gizmo:Hopefully not.
Speaker 4:I mean, it's just so young. This is a Yeah. This is a very young, young Cuban. This is the youngest Cuban I've ever smoked.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Roughly five months old.
Gizmo:Five, six months old. But what I'm finding and why I'm comfortable doing it is number one, if somebody orders this to smoke with us, this is the box code that they're going to get likely. Yeah. Or close to it. And number two, Cubans have just been smoking so great young.
Gizmo:You know, you
Senator:pull because You pull
Gizmo:the humidity down and We... There's that's
Senator:the one. Was just say, we smoked some cigar recently that was incredibly young. Was that a '23?
Gizmo:November 22.
Speaker 4:It was delicious.
Senator:Still very
Speaker 4:Gentlemen, what's your reco here? Do I touch this up? I'm showing my Not cigar for yet. Not yet? Yeah?
Speaker 4:Just take word.
Gizmo:Would wait till it opens to the full bulb.
Senator:Yeah. I would take a serious draw to just try to heat that so that it naturally takes care of itself.
Gizmo:I think the other thing that benefits this too is obviously in this blend, it's it's not a strong blend. I don't think there's a lot of laharrow in this.
Senator:It's good. Mhmm. So
Gizmo:I think that from a time stamp... You know, time wise, I think that hopefully with this not being a super dense packed cigar and being a medium bodied affair
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:Hopefully it'll perform all right.
Pagoda:Mhmm. You know? You think it's gonna be a quickest smoke?
Gizmo:I don't think it's gonna be quick, but I don't think we're gonna get two hours out of this Yeah. That's what you how this is burning.
Bam Bam:That's what you see on some sites regarding this cigar. Two hour affair.
Gizmo:Yeah. Yeah. We'll see what we get.
Bam Bam:Probably an hour and ten minutes.
Gizmo:I'm not not familiar with the two hour affair.
Bam Bam:Two hour saga.
Gizmo:So this cigar was originally released in 2003, so it's about 20 years old. It only comes in a dress box of 10 cigars. And what's cool about Cuaba, and we'll get into the history in a little bit, but Cuaba was designed to produce Figueroa cigars in in the late nineties. It was the only brand introduced in the nineties after Cohiba. So Cohiba was 1982, officially launched, obviously founded way before that, officially launched as a commercial brand in 1982.
Gizmo:And this was the the successor to Cohiba as far as Habanos launches in 1996. And these are the cigars that they were designed to make, just perfectos and figurados. That's it.
Senator:You know, it's funny because I I love perfectos and figurados generally, but I I for some reason have never pieced together that that's all that Cuaba makes.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Senator:For some reason, I just assumed that they had other.
Gizmo:They only make, I think, three Vitolas. Right? So right now they make they make five or six, I believe. They have the Divinos, which is a petite perfecto, the Exclusivo, which is just a regular perfecto, 46 by five and three quarter, the Traditionales petite perfecto, the Distinguidos, which is the little brother to this, not much smaller. It's 52 by six and three eights.
Gizmo:And this, the Salamone, 57 by seven and a quarter. And they have a new release coming. It was announced in 2019, typical Habanos delay, called the Britannica's Extra, which is a 48 by five and three eighths. It has not been released yet. They have a bunch of discontinued cigars.
Gizmo:And what's cool about this cigar specifically, and most of Cuaba cigars actually came from previously released special releases and like special humidors and stuff in the late '90s. So they started with fancy humidors auctioned off at Habanos Festivals and various things. And then the cigars, I guess, that did well in those or performed well for folks, they decided to release them as regular production. The other thing that's cool too is that this brand alongside Cuaba in Trinidad was at launch designed to be a premium brand. It was designed to be up there with the, you know, core brands, Cohiba, Partagas, Monte Cristo, Upmann, and
Bam Bam:Not regarding
Gizmo:I wouldn't say Not regarding
Bam Bam:such that
Gizmo:someone say twenty five years later.
Senator:Someone lost their job. Yeah.
Bam Bam:So I've had the Divino and the Distinguito. Had a box with a bigger one and a Divino I was gifted. I find they all share a similar trait in that they have a distinct floral note that they all share. It's It's unusual. Distinguito's got more coffee.
Bam Bam:This, I agree with Grindr. To me, there's a little barnyard in this and some sweetness. The Divino, it's so small. It's actually quite delicious. It's all coffee and a little
Senator:bit of floral for me. This is actually my first guava.
Bam Bam:Ever. Think that...
Senator:Yeah. Of any kind.
Gizmo:I think the only one I've had was the little one, the Divino. Yeah. I think that's the only one I've had. I actually thought when we got these, the these were Distinguitos. And I the was looking dimensions of it, I'm like, this is not a disinguitos, this is definitely a salamone, and I actually put it up to the poster on my wall, which is like all
Bam Bam:The size charts.
Gizmo:The size chart, and I was like, okay, this is a salamone.
Speaker 4:This is very light, and the retrohale is where I think you can get a lot of flavor.
Bam Bam:It's delicious, retrohale. Yeah. Also, the Distinguito's got a darker wrapper than this guy. I'm getting such good flavor in
Speaker 4:the retrohale.
Gizmo:I was talking too much. I gotta touch mine up here.
Speaker 5:I see.
Pagoda:I try to retrohale at this
Bam Bam:level. See everyone's trying to retro. No.
Pagoda:You know what it is?
Senator:It's like,
Pagoda:I have sinuses all the time. So it's like, this is just not a good move for me, but still. I've got to definitely try it.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah. It's a big stick,
Bam Bam:but it's definitely got a light touch. I can't complain about this cigar yet.
Gizmo:Yeah, this is really good Yeah. So
Speaker 4:I mean, like the aroma on this. What do you call that?
Gizmo:Aroma. At the burn line. Aroma. Yeah. Think the foot smell nice, the burn line there.
Gizmo:I think where the smoke's coming off of the head of the cigar Smells great too, and it's all lining up for me.
Speaker 4:It's definitely like... I'm curious to hear more from the guys with the stronger palates here because...
Gizmo:This is from 'twenty three? This is from March of 'twenty three.
Bam Bam:Well, Pagoda
Speaker 4:youth There's definitely some youth
Pagoda:in it.
Speaker 4:You can taste a little youth, right?
Speaker 5:But it's not bad. This is
Gizmo:the only 'twenty three we have done, right? This is the only Cuban
Bam Bam:Cuban 2023.
Gizmo:Yeah, 2023 we've done. Certainly the biggest Cuban we've done in a long time.
Speaker 5:I mean age is only going to help the cigar for being so young.
Bam Bam:It could mellow out the notes as it gets older. So I've had that box of Distinguitos for a year. Initially, they were pretty hard to smoke. They weren't great. I tried another few, six months, eight months.
Bam Bam:The last two at the final end of the year, they're actually very good. I think they need to sit. That line. This one's much better. Think.
Bam Bam:I
Senator:will say, I think you do taste a little bit of the youth, but it's like pleasant youth. I don't think bad. Yeah. Sometimes you have a young d four or young ras, and you're pleasantly surprised. That's kind of what I get out of this.
Senator:There's nothing offensive I'm getting at all from the cigar. It's not overwhelmed with ammonia or anything like that. And I'm just shocked that for... I mean, Cuaba, which I don't have that much experience with, plus the fact that it's not aged very much at all, it's complex.
Bam Bam:Yeah, tasty. I I don't know how
Senator:many young cigars I describe as starting out as complex. Usually the complexity builds over time, but is not really present right up front, and this is definitely complex.
Bam Bam:I want to ask Pagoda a quick question. You've got a stronger power alley. What do you think of this as far as the robustness of a cigar? You like a deeper cigar.
Pagoda:You know what, I've been really enjoying this, and I think over the last year I've begun to realize, actually I've begun to enjoy a lot more of the medium bodied cigars as well. Yeah. And I was, you know, I think we were having a conversation with Gizzy the other day. I said, I'm not reaching on to Exclusivo's all the time. Like, I could pound three of those a day.
Pagoda:And now I'm just doing, now I do like one at the end of the night or something. You're I am evolving, I'll tell you. That's a great company.
Gizmo:Actually that came up because I asked him, I was like, you know, haven't seen you smoking Padrone Exclusivo in a while. And he said that he hadn't been reaching for them. Because he feels like his palate's kind of moving in a
Senator:more That's what happened with me though. A
Gizmo:wider direction.
Senator:He did light one the other night, and he had a big smile on his face when he said I hadn't
Gizmo:had an Exclusivo
Speaker 4:in lifetime.
Pagoda:See, that's Because then it tastes so good. It's awesome.
Gizmo:It just tastes so good. Every time.
Pagoda:It's like it makes you realize what the hell you missing.
Gizmo:This is like the official podcast, by the way, of the Padrone Exclusivo. Yeah.
Bam Bam:Well, it it could never leave us. Right?
Gizmo:I mean, we we just never miss
Senator:So an
Gizmo:What was your journey with that grinder? With what? Your palate?
Speaker 4:Well, had a stronger palate. I liked really, really strong cigars up until I would say '19 maybe, and then 2019.
Speaker 5:So around the pandemic.
Senator:Yeah, when it hit 19 years old.
Speaker 4:Around then, that's when I started to smoke more, less strong So you
Bam Bam:had an Exclusivo at 19?
Pagoda:No, I'm joking.
Speaker 4:Let's hit the joke again guys. You're up, Pagoda. Anyway, so I think it's just, I don't know, your palate changes. And I got more into Cubans with you guys, and that changed I a
Speaker 5:think for me, and maybe it's true with everyone, once COVID hit, everybody was home. So we were smoking a lot more cigars. So when you're smoking
Gizmo:four or five a day, you can't smoke all Padrones back to back to back. You can.
Senator:Other cigars,
Speaker 5:you can't. But Padrones, you can't.
Speaker 4:That's a good hypothesis. Great.
Speaker 5:Maybe we were looking for something a little bit milder, medium smokes to build on and then end with a
Bam Bam:Or just to kill the boredom of the typical cigar.
Senator:I'm glad Rooster said that because now you probably understand. You've heard me on other episodes where I'll say a cigar is just a little too full for my palate because I'm still, even without the pandemic, a four to five cigar a day kind of person. So that's where, like, too much strength when I'm gonna have that many smokes in a day, it's just overpowering where if I'm gonna have one or two, then no problem. And that's where that factors in for me, the strength.
Gizmo:It is amazing how the pandemic changed the smoking habits. I mean, obviously we kind of bonded through COVID. That's really when this group came That's true.
Speaker 4:Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast where seven guys during the pandemic look for better ways to spend their time smoking cigars. We should have that in the tagline of our podcast because like the pandemic kind of fueled a lot of the fire. You were talking about the podcast around the fire because we were distancing and stuff. Then we had to sit outside. Yeah, and that's where all those initial, really, the bonding kind of took place, is over the campfire with that stuff.
Speaker 4:I don't know, it changed a lot. I think it was the genesis for this, yeah,
Gizmo:for sure.
Pagoda:Yeah. But it seems like it's everywhere, right? I was hanging out in another lounge in Long Island, and it seemed like, even over there, quite a few of the guys I spoke to, a lot of people's uptick in cigar smoking started around the pandemic. The thing is now it's become more of a consistent lifestyle where people at least smoke, you know, a couple a day at least, you know, which was never like a daily thing for some of them. But it's interesting that COVID did change quite a few things.
Gizmo:And the data backs that up too. I mean, we've talked about the rise of cigar imports. We've talked about the demand on Cuban cigars over the last four years, three years, which is... I mean, think about where Cuban cigars were when we were starting to really buy, and then we doubled down and went crazy buying during COVID.
Bam Bam:Thank goodness, Let
Gizmo:me ask you this. Everything changed.
Speaker 4:Do you think there was a pop, let's say a statistically significant pop, in the number of cigar smokers versus just the existing cigar smokers buying more shit?
Gizmo:I think it was a little bit of both.
Senator:I think for sure both.
Gizmo:Because I think people were bored. Exactly.
Senator:I mean, if you think about even when we were at our former lounge, once things reopened during the pandemic, there were people who joined during the pandemic that were some relatively new cigar smokers, some who smoked every now and then, but not really super frequently. Think it's definitely a combination of both. I mean, Poobah, I'm pretty sure, joined our old lounge during the pandemic. Think he's only the place he could find
Bam Bam:you was He was in as well, didn't you?
Gizmo:I joined at the tail... No, I guess I did, yeah. I joined
Speaker 5:at tail,
Gizmo:and then Poobah did too. And Poobah did go Time after is like warped to me. It is. I can't pinpoint dates anymore, but yeah. So Poobah was there first.
Gizmo:Know, Grindr, Senator, and Rooster, and Bam were there far longer than the other three of us, but then Poobah had joined. I joined, I think, two or three months after him, and then Pagoda joined a month or two after me, and then this all came together. Pretty amazing. Padron and chocolates. Yeah.
Gizmo:I think that
Speaker 4:of us were playing golf the other day, and I smoked a couple Padrones on the golf course because of all the times that we've been in this podcast, and
Gizmo:Poobah would be like, That's a go to cigar for a golf course. You could smoke this in a
Speaker 4:hurricane kind of thing. And I was like, Okay, I'm on the golf course. I'm definitely gonna smoke Padrones all day. And yeah, I mean, can't go wrong.
Pagoda:Yeah. It worked out well, right? Was nice. I smoked Padrone.
Gizmo:So this cigar is really, really good.
Bam Bam:How much is this cigar?
Gizmo:This is about $25. What? Yeah. That's lot of tobacco in this.
Speaker 5:Dude, what what Cuban cigar
Speaker 4:is on this? No. You're right.
Senator:I'm surprised by your reaction. Let... Let's just be... Let's understand with the pricing right now. A a Cuban Robusto is $20.
Senator:If you want a d four Ras, it's $20. It's nothing under way. Bigger. For $25, I think given where the market is for these, this is a very
Bam Bam:fair price. Yeah. I just bought a box of Monty twos for just under that. I'd buy that over this.
Senator:I mean, also, sorry, but obviously you love the Davidoff Millennium like I do. That's a 30 something dollar stick, and that's just a torpedo. It's a pyramid. Yeah. This is bigger than that.
Senator:This
Bam Bam:is huge. That's true.
Gizmo:So you'll find these anywhere between
Bam Bam:Case closed, senator.
Gizmo:You know how... But you know how the the Internet is. You can find these for 25 a stick. You can find them for 45 a stick. Right?
Gizmo:So Yeah. I found them on the lower end of that. You know, you can get them you can get them really high. Damn. $43.
Gizmo:Okay. For a Cuaba. Yep. Pagoda, you were you were
Speaker 5:gonna say?
Pagoda:I was about to say, bam, I need to know your source for Monty twos because I think I paid like $28. My source?
Gizmo:He doesn't know his magic.
Bam Bam:Can I just tell
Gizmo:you something? Have you guys played the source?
Bam Bam:You're looking at the source.
Pagoda:Oh, you are the source?
Bam Bam:No. You're looking at everybody in the room. Thank goodness. We lizards take care of each other.
Speaker 5:You absolutely did. You found Monty twos for under $20 this time?
Bam Bam:No. It was $28.23.
Gizmo:It was like 6.75 a box of 25.
Pagoda:It's around $27.28.
Gizmo:27, That's true.
Speaker 4:That's true.
Pagoda:Case closed again.
Gizmo:Going back to the intention of when Habanos formed this brand as a premium brand up there with Cohiba, thinking that they were gonna bring the Figurados back, which were, I guess, very popular in the early 1900s, 1920s, 1930s. They fell off during the '70s especially, and this was their attempt to bring that back to Cuban cigars in Cuaba, make it a premium wine. And I just don't think it is.
Speaker 4:What year again
Gizmo:They did you founded this line in 1996.
Speaker 4:'96.
Gizmo:Don't know if they're They're in the cigar boom. Yeah, but that was the big cigar, the thick, the 60 ring gauge popular then? Well, but they also launched... This didn't launch till 2003, but a lot of the other cigars that they have are smaller little Perfectos, you know, or petite Perfectos, kind of Robusto length or Corona length. So it's just interesting that their intention just totally fell on its face, and I look at even when you go walk through We were fortunate to go through Corona Factory when we were in Havana the times that we've been there, and it's like that's where most Cuaba's rolled.
Gizmo:Yep. There's a whole bunch, 10, 15, 20 rollers, that all they do is roll Figurados all day long, Cuaba. You know, there's a big... You're sitting in the La Corona Boardroom, and there's a picture of Fidel to your left, and in the center of the room are all of the
Bam Bam:Yeah. And Cuaba emblem is right in the middle of
Gizmo:That's the biggest one at the top.
Bam Bam:That's
Gizmo:right. It's an interesting Yeah. There's something disconnected there for me in how they market the brand, the packaging, bands, and then that. It doesn't make sense
Senator:to me.
Speaker 4:So how has CA ranked this line?
Gizmo:I don't know if they've ever really I don't given much think you do
Bam Bam:but I think there's a historic respect for this market maybe.
Gizmo:That's really nice.
Speaker 5:I don't know. I think it's one of the least known brands out of the portfolio.
Bam Bam:There's a few that are of
Gizmo:out there. La Yeah, Flor de Cano. Fonseca. Cuaba, Fonseca. Mean, this is around those brands.
Gizmo:This is, you know, they call this an other brand now in Habano's catalog. It's next to Diplomaticos, Ray Del Mundo, Fonseca, Juan Lopez, Flor de Cao, as you just said, Liguria Cubano, which we referenced to Turquinos we did recently, which, by the way, if you haven't heard that episode, that cigar is excellent. Check it out. The way, I'm sorry to the listeners who have emailed us saying they couldn't get them because I've gotten a lot of emails saying, Giz, why did you say these were available everywhere for $25? And then two days after the pod came out, they were gone.
Gizmo:Because Giz bought them all. Sorry about that. Poobah Warajaga, Cigars, Gonzalez, Saint Louis Ray. I mean, Romania, this is next to them. This is not at the top of that list.
Speaker 4:Cigars is in there though. So we don't know how they've segregated or categorized the
Gizmo:This is an official categorization from Habanos.
Speaker 4:Other brands. Don't know the logic that went into that, I is what I'm
Gizmo:don't know what the
Speaker 4:logic Maybe it was just more heritage brands or something like that that are more popular just in media or something, and that they said, We're gonna push this and market it. You don't know. I don't think that speaks to the quality of the cigars.
Gizmo:I'm not commenting on quality. I'm commenting on the effort that Cabaigos puts into marketing and pushing these cigars. It's just... Like Rooster said, I don't think it's very well known outside of aficionados. I don't think you don't really see
Speaker 5:it much. Even on the Facebook groups and stuff, doesn't
Gizmo:come up much. I mean, nobody's really mean know
Bam Bam:the
Gizmo:various retailers are not sending out emails saying hey we've got Cuaba.
Bam Bam:Come and get them.
Gizmo:Yeah come and get your Cuaba. It just doesn't
Speaker 5:happen. There is one thing though when I pick this up and look at the cigar it kind of reminds me of the La Corona factory.
Speaker 4:Yeah. It's rough and rugged.
Speaker 5:Right? Yeah. Rustic.
Bam Bam:That's a good word, rustic for
Senator:the cigar.
Gizmo:And this is a cigar that's really only manufactured there. Yeah. And they're very proud. So in Corona, we talked about it on our recap episode. Go back, I think it was '74 or '76 when we went through the factories.
Gizmo:But there's three kind of lanes of rollers. And the Cuaba, the Figuero Rollers, are in the middle lane at the very, very front. So when you go through a tour of the factory, you always pass by that specific row of people. And man, are they proud of these cigars they're rolling. They're handing them to you, not to give you, but like, look at what I've done.
Gizmo:They're very, very proud of their work. Well, the shape.
Bam Bam:It's hard.
Speaker 5:It's hard to
Gizmo:roll this. This is a hard cigar
Speaker 4:to They're roll easy the best rollers that are reserved for that.
Gizmo:This is one of the hardest cigars
Bam Bam:to roll.
Gizmo:For sure, you're 100% right. When they take the class, which is a nine month class, I think they have to successfully roll a petite figurado or the petite perfecto to pass the class.
Bam Bam:It's ironic that this Vitola is selected for the Cuaba Marca, the most difficult cigar to roll for one of the most...
Speaker 5:Like Underappreciated.
Bam Bam:Underappreciated markup. Least known. It's ironic.
Speaker 4:I kinda like that. It's a little bundle of unappreciated. There's always these gems that you like to uncover. I like that it's a little gem.
Gizmo:It's like for those in the know, this is a treat. Yeah. You know, but I've also heard that, you know, through the early two thousands, obviously, as Cabaiguan tobacco went through that dark period of quality control issues and consistency. I mean, this is a box of cigars that I I wouldn't want to gamble on one of these with that kind of uncertainty. But now, given the recent quality, that's why, you know, bringing these in tonight, you know, I'm happy that they're performing like this because I very well thought that this could go the other way just because of
Speaker 4:this changing on you guys?
Gizmo:Is it? To me it's earthy.
Bam Bam:It's an earthy cigar. The fruit notes, floral have dropped off a bit and it is earthy. Maybe very, very deep coffee, almost like a bitter coffee.
Speaker 4:There's a minerality as
Bam Bam:there you
Speaker 4:would say.
Gizmo:This is true.
Speaker 4:But it's still, for me, enjoyable. There's definitely some kind of shift. Turning up a knob a little bit, I don't know which knob, but something's turning up a little bit, but not much. Just a smidge.
Speaker 5:There's no leggero in this.
Gizmo:There can't be. I think anything with leggero is not going to perform this well young or with a heavy amount of it. I think that the density of the pack inside the cigar is also lending itself to performing well. There's just not a ton of tobacco in this, which thankfully is the case.
Bam Bam:Not to jump ahead, but the drink that we're drinking with this cigar, initially, I didn't like the pairing, but now that it's more minerally for me, the tequila works nicely with it.
Gizmo:So let's talk about it. It's the Tequila Ocho Reposado, and it's aged in widow Jane bourbon barrels. Correct? Yes. Bourbon casks, excuse me.
Gizmo:I mean Right? What's the story with this? Because I know that it's very popular at the lounge here.
Speaker 4:Just You were say selling it. Can I just say before we continue, I'm just taking a whiff of this again after having smoked this cigar for a while, this is perfumey? The nose on this.
Gizmo:On tequila?
Speaker 4:Yeah. It's perfumey. It's like the floral is really coming out.
Gizmo:We've talked about Tequila Ocho. We went to that event. I mean, really, really awesome story here. You can listen to the previous episode. I think we did Tequila Ocho Anejo, right, Senator?
Gizmo:Was it the one we did last time we did this? We love this brand. It's artisan. Chef Ricky Camacho approved tequila. And this one's very unique because it's aged in those bourbon casks.
Gizmo:So what do the bourbon casks do for you guys on this versus the tequila ocho repo?
Bam Bam:Not a thing.
Gizmo:Really? Not for
Pagoda:me. I think on the finish it's very different from the other
Gizmo:orchards. I
Bam Bam:find the other ones tastier. They're delicious to me. This one... I don't know. For me it's got like a little bit of heat.
Bam Bam:It's okay. It's minerally for me. It works good with the cigar but I like the others better personally.
Gizmo:Is this less floral? More floral?
Bam Bam:Don't know.
Gizmo:About the same?
Bam Bam:This is drinking like a blanco for me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, this is the bourbon barrel one you said?
Gizmo:Yes. The Widow Jane bourbon cask.
Speaker 4:Don't get the burp. Do you get any of that?
Gizmo:I I... To me, it just tastes like a good Reposado.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I don't get...
Senator:So the difference between the the Repo and the... This Repo in the bourbon barrel, the regular Reposado has, like, citrus notes. It's more of a summery kind of Reposado that you would expect. What the Widow Jane does, you don't get bourbon notes per se out of this, but you definitely get the char from those charred barrels that they use when they age bourbon, and you get just a little bit of that smokiness.
Bam Bam:So that's what I'm getting. Exactly. That's for me. I'm interpreting that as mineral, but that's probably what I'm getting.
Pagoda:Yeah. The smoky sweetness towards the end as opposed to the citrusy orangeness at the other one.
Senator:That's right, and that's the sweetness from the Repo, and then the smokiness from that charred barrel, exactly.
Gizmo:So the question is, is how does this tequila pair with the cigar for you guys? Because I think it's actually quite complimentary. I think this is a good choice, Senator.
Senator:Yeah. Is very intentional as to any time, obviously, if I suggest a certain thing with this cigar, obviously it's for a reason. With this, having not had Cuaba, but if you look it up, you do see that it talks about a lot of floral notes. Tequila is probably the only spirit that we would possibly pair that would be floral. I mean, a bourbon's not gonna...
Senator:A scotch is not gonna... Cognac's not... Maybe with the exception of Hein. So, I mean, it wasn't really a hard gamble. It it had to at least somewhat pair well.
Bam Bam:It was perfect.
Gizmo:So So let me ask you this. The normal Repo, which we haven't done on the podcast yet, I'm assuming at some point we're gonna do it. You're saying it has the more citrusy type notes. How do you think that would pair with a cigar like this versus the Widow Jane?
Senator:I actually think this pairs a little bit better with it because I'm not getting just sweet notes out of this Cuaba.
Bam Bam:No. It actually dissipates after the first inch.
Senator:Right. There's some... We talked about the barnyard, the mustiness. Because that is there And the minerality. I think that it lends itself well to this with the widow Jane barrel.
Senator:I think that if this didn't have any of those kind of barnyard musty notes and it was just, like, sweet and floral, then I think it'll be perfect for the regular Repo. But given the way this is, think it works better with this one.
Speaker 5:I think the... Sounds like the
Gizmo:regular Repo would do better with the K. Dorsays.
Bam Bam:Yeah. You're the It's good call.
Gizmo:The Schwa Supreme
Bam Bam:or LGC. Schwa Supreme for sure.
Gizmo:Yeah. The tirkinos would be good for this.
Bam Bam:Oh, yeah.
Senator:Oh, yeah. An MDL would be great with that. Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:So like I said, we recently did Tequila Ocho, so we're not gonna go through the history of the brand again. So if you're interested in that, go back to that episode and check out the Tequila Ocho Anejo. We did a little bit of a deep dive on the Ocho brand. But boys, we're into the second, now of this cigar, about a half hour into the episode. I'm very, very happy with how this cigar is doing
Bam Bam:right now. Same. Same.
Gizmo:And I think it benefits from pulling down the humidity, sitting at its 60% for as long as I did, probably about two months, I guess. That was a good move. They've been just sitting loose in my tower like that. So, again, I cross my fingers, but I'm just... I'm a big believer in young Cuban tobacco right now.
Gizmo:And and the question I wanna ask, going back to the earlier comments about tasting youth, I don't know if I'm tasting youth or if there's just an absence of age, or there's an absence of that of mustiness that comes with aged tobacco. Don't think I'm getting what I would get a lot of times, especially from a Cuban that's really young that has that oomph that really knocks you around and throws you off kilter, you know? I don't think I'm getting that in this. So I just think it's an absence of age. Is that a crazy statement?
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. I just find aged Cubans to be creamy. There's a creaminess to an aged Cuban. You're not getting that in this cigar.
Bam Bam:But there's just something... For me, I'm capturing the minerality of
Speaker 4:this cigar, which I really like a lot.
Bam Bam:I don't think it tastes young. That's an ambiguous term for me. I don't know what young is, but I know what older and aged cigars are, and they're creamier for me.
Speaker 4:I think you nailed it. I think that's absolutely true.
Senator:Yeah. I'll just say about this cigar. I think early on, I said I was tasting some of the youth, not in a bad way, but just that it was present. But once you get about a quarter of the way in and beyond, I feel like any of that youth I was getting has actually kinda dissipated. He's right.
Senator:This is smoking now more like a cigar with a little bit of age. It's nice. Like, it's smoother than it started. Yeah. And I feel like the flavors are a little more concentrated
Bam Bam:than It's when it less pungent. I happen to like a pungent cigar. The first quarter of an inch was really nice and pungent. Barnyard, fruit notes, floral, it was really special.
Speaker 5:But that's gone now.
Bam Bam:It's gone. Totally gone, but I think Senator nailed it. It's actually settled in beautifully, and it's really nice and consistent. I find it
Senator:to be sweeter at this point.
Gizmo:Is a little bit more sweetness there.
Bam Bam:On the back end for me.
Gizmo:And I'm also getting, like you said, Brewster, it's just really earthy. It's a nice earth though because I think if you think about a Cohiba type earth at this young, it's unsmokable.
Senator:Yeah, it's not
Gizmo:at all. That cigar's unsmokable. Mean, you told me this was a
Speaker 5:'23, this is a March 23 cigar, I wouldn't buy that. Yeah. I would say it's at least a couple of years of age
Gizmo:on this. Yeah. I agree. There's a couple more interesting things about the history of Cuaba. Like I said, founded in November 1996, simply in an effort for Habanos to bring back Figurados into the catalog because they were completely absent for quite period of time.
Gizmo:The first brand founded since Cohiba in 1982, or launched, I guess I should say, and then the successor to this brand, as far as launch, was San Cristobal de la Habana, which as we know was launched in 1999. What I think is really, really cool about this is that when they launched this brand, every cigar that they released had a slightly different shape because they didn't have the molds for Figurados in Habanos. It took about a year after the brand was launched for them to actually create molds to create a consistent product. So the early Cuabas that were released in 1996, 1997 were very inconsistent Interesting. In size.
Gizmo:I mean, just kind of relying on the eye of the roller. I'm not
Senator:sure I'm convinced they're currently using weights.
Bam Bam:Yeah, I don't know.
Senator:No, I just say that because one of the things that's very sad for me, again, this is my first Cuaba, I'm actually really enjoying this, this is a very good experience, But we're talking about why Cuaba is not regarded the way that they clearly intended, which was to be this really premium brand. Yeah. And I can only speak for myself, but the reason I haven't really chased or pursued Cuaba is you just look at Cuabas in a box, and they look to me very uneven. There's nothing premium for them. The wrappers are...
Senator:I think right when we got these, I think Grindr commented and said this is a very veiny cigar. The wrappers aren't particularly nice, and it's ironic to think that they thought this would ever be like a Cohiba where when we've been at El Aguido, the wrapper matters so much, not for the flavor, but solely to just look beautiful. Mhmm. So that you open that box of Cohibas and say, wow. Look at those cigars.
Senator:I mean, this is the polar opposite of that. There's nothing visually all that appealing about this cigar. Now what I'll give the rollers at La Corona credit for, this is an extremely well rolled cigar.
Gizmo:It's burning perfectly.
Senator:I mean, look at the ashtrays. It's unbelievable. It's perfectly straight.
Speaker 4:I kinda like... It goes to its gem persona. It's that little gem. It's got, you know, it's got that rough edge. It's not...
Speaker 4:It doesn't look sexy, but damn, this is pretty good tobacco. And
Gizmo:you know, what it comes down to for us always is performance. And despite what DI says, I mean, obviously if you're buying a Cohiba at $100 or $200 or $600 some of them, Obviously, the intention there is
Bam Bam:it's like a It better be beautiful.
Gizmo:It's like a Louis Vuitton bag, but you know, that's their intention is to make it absolutely perfect.
Senator:The only thing I will say, though, why it's not easy for me to overlook these flaws I'm talking about is because it's not the case that Cuaba is like dramatically priced less than a lot of these other brands we like, like Partagas or Upmann or True. QD or you name it. And so if you're gonna charge a premium price, I mean, you know, Ban's Reaction, $25, that's not a cheap cigar. No. Right?
Senator:That's a premium cigar. So if you're gonna charge that price, I would like to see a little bit more effort made to make it also visually look deserving of that price
Bam Bam:Yeah, and part of my reaction, I guess there's a stigma on that marker and some of the other markers that we haven't dived into for a reason. Maybe we all have some kind of stigma against those brands, but that's why I reacted that way with the price.
Gizmo:No, you're right. Some of those other brands that I mentioned that we haven't done, they're coming up. You know, I
Bam Bam:No, we need to do them.
Gizmo:I just bought a box of a new release, Rafael Gonzalez, Nice. For That's coming up. We're going to do the Sancho Panza. We're going do another song Cristobal down the road. We're going to a Vegas Rubagna.
Gizmo:I know we love that market, obviously. So there's a lot more coming from these lower tier brands in the catalog. So like I said, from a performance standpoint, this young stuff is really doing great.
Speaker 5:The issue that I have
Gizmo:is if this is $25 for a Cuaba Or more.
Speaker 5:Or more. You got it at a great price, so it's probably more like about $30 $35 maybe. How do you compare this? There's a lot of New World sticks out there like Davidoffs for like $30 that are beautiful. The wrapper's beautiful.
Speaker 5:They're consistent. The flavor, I mean, the Padrones
Bam Bam:And they're beautiful to look at.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So I mean, you have Unavailable. And available.
Gizmo:Readily available.
Speaker 5:Think they're much better. They deliver much more than this does.
Bam Bam:But the flip side of this cigar that we're reviewing, it's great that we're going into this world of the other brands that Habanos classifies as other brands. We're going be surprised by this rating, and we're going to find more surprises, which is a great journey. It's an awesome journey.
Senator:I also think to defend Cuaba, or at least this cigar, I can't really speak for the whole line, this is more complex, honestly, than a lot of other New World cigars that we may compare this to in its price point. Like, you know, I love a Davidoff Millennium. I would argue this has got much more complexity of flavor than
Gizmo:Davidoff Millennium has.
Speaker 4:He's he's right. Percent. Yeah.
Senator:I do think it has to get some credit for that. Now I... Again, I'm the one... I'm just as critical as you are on the presentation. I think that the wrappers need to be better picked.
Senator:I think that the packaging sucks. I would love for them to honestly, like, you know, redesign the bands and the boxes like many brands have gone through over a year's time. But I will say the complexity is there. I mean, that that is what you're paying some of that premium for.
Speaker 5:But as it stands right now, you would pick this over a Davidoff Millennium Pyramid?
Senator:To me, they're not competing for the same slot. It's a completely different cigar. The flavor profile is so dramatically different. I would never be looking for these at the same
Speaker 5:by price point.
Senator:Again, it's not an either or, it's an and for me. So this would slot in an earlier time of day in a way that a millennium would never for me.
Gizmo:That's true.
Senator:The millennium would slot at a later time of day in a way that this never would for me. So they're never competing to me at
Bam Bam:They're black and white, really.
Gizmo:The other thing that I think from a presentation standpoint of the cigar, not only from what we're talking about, the visual look of it, which, like I said, we get down to performance, we kind of forget about the look of it. But when you're looking at it at the rollers table at Corona or you're looking at it in the box with those kind of gross, coaba red brown bands on them, the box itself, It's not a cigar that I'm excited to hand out to my friends. It's not a cigar that I'm going to walk in and go, guys, let's get excited about this cigar. Now, the lizards, for us, I'm going to say, guys, forget how it looks. You're really going to enjoy this cigar.
Gizmo:But if you're pulling this out for some friends somewhere, not only is it a time commitment, it's an odd looking cigar, it's imperfect looking, but the presentation overall is just kind of mediocre.
Senator:There are $7 cigars that have a nicer presentation. Absolutely.
Bam Bam:Papas fritas.
Gizmo:Yeah, I mean, this is really good, but I'm not gonna bring a box of this and hand it out to friends.
Bam Bam:Well, don't think you'd ever hand a Figurado to a novice cigar guy.
Gizmo:A little one I would.
Speaker 4:I don't know.
Bam Bam:They're difficult to smoke. If you smoke them too fast, they'll be uneven. If you smoke them too slow, they go out.
Speaker 4:This is burning great.
Senator:Figueroa is spam on that.
Bam Bam:Yeah, that's more of a
Gizmo:seasoned cigar. So you think a Figueroa of any size is a more advanced cigar?
Senator:Oh, 100%. I just think it cannot be to a beginner or novice smoker who has not smoked that many cigars.
Gizmo:That's right.
Senator:Because to me, you're setting that person up to fail. I mean, look at us even as many cigars as we smoke, and we're sitting here like, you know, should I touch this up? Is it drawing right? Should I... Do you think it's gonna open?
Senator:Should I cut more? How many times have we all had these conversations smoking a figurado? And we smoke a lot, so I just think for someone who doesn't smoke often Yeah. It's not easy to successfully
Bam Bam:smoke a figurado.
Pagoda:Yep. Yeah. You might start off cutting the wrong end to begin with. You
Senator:you personally witnessed this before.
Pagoda:Of course, of course, yeah. I shouldn't be saying in case people listen to the pod, but I've had people cut the wrong end of cigar a couple of Oh, times why
Bam Bam:I us about that.
Gizmo:Recently, right?
Pagoda:Yeah. It's, firstly, it's really frustrating because when you're handing out good cigars to people who claim that they smoke cigars, and they cut the wrong end in a new world,
Bam Bam:Now are you I polite and don't say anything, or do you correct them immediately?
Pagoda:I correct them immediately.
Bam Bam:That's right. That's how it should be done.
Speaker 4:How do you even make that mistake? Like, what's the
Pagoda:cutter for that? How about this? It's not once. Twice for the three or four weeks. I said, All right, this is it.
Gizmo:Are you giving this person like a robusto or like toro
Pagoda:or Yeah, like my
Gizmo:Which one end is closed, one end is open.
Pagoda:You know, I've handed him Dominicanos. Come on. Oh, know how hurt I was.
Gizmo:It's like an arrow through the heart. Need to
Bam Bam:give them a southern draw, man. That's what they need.
Pagoda:All right. You know, it's like, I think people should stop claiming that they smoke cigars frequently if they don't know which end to cut. That's just
Gizmo:takeaway. That is a good barrier to entry. So the name Cuaba is actually pretty cool. It was... It refers to a wood...
Gizmo:A type of wooden torch used by the Taino Indians. I don't know how to pronounce the Taino. Taino. Which the Taino is the Cohiba head. That's the Taino head that they've had forever in that brand and in other cigars, too, before Cohiba.
Gizmo:And they say the Cuban people still use them in the countryside today. So this is named after a torch, a wooden torch.
Senator:You know the other thing that's odd as I'm thinking about this, and we're talking about how Cuaba is regarded? I have never met a cigar smoker that has told me they love Cuaba. And I just say that because why do we try cigars? Someone you trust introduces you to them. That's how we have found every single thing we smoke, and this is just one brand.
Senator:It's very odd.
Bam Bam:It's not
Senator:ubiquitous. You guys even have... Each of us has a random brand that we found that's not that popular that we happen to like, that we've shared, and some of us like it, some of us don't. I just have yet to meet someone passionate
Speaker 5:about I'll
Speaker 4:tell you that. Think some of that... Sorry to interrupt.
Bam Bam:That's okay.
Speaker 4:Think some of that goes to... Cigar smokers are very traditionally minded typically. There's a traditional element to it, and these are newer brands. It just got off to not as great of a footing because it's very traditional brands that they marquee, very old school brands. I think that didn't help, and I think as time goes on, a lot of it is, Hey, you hand down cigars from your father or your mentor or something, and they're giving you these old time cigars, and it wasn't heavily invested in.
Speaker 4:It wasn't marketed.
Senator:This is not
Speaker 5:a new brand though.
Senator:There are newer brands that I feel like I see people smoke more....
Speaker 5:'96.
Senator:There were brands you just named that came out after that even.
Gizmo:San Cristobal de la Habana came out in '99. Right.
Senator:Yeah. People smoke... I've seen people recommend San Cristobal way more than I've ever heard anyone recommend a Cuaba.
Gizmo:Maybe the size just intimidates people or the shape.
Bam Bam:Could be.
Gizmo:You know, to go back to our our previous discussion.
Speaker 5:That could be true. I mean, not everybody wants to smoke a Figueroa.
Gizmo:Yeah. Especially a big one like this. Yeah. Yeah. Or the Distinguitos, which is pretty damn close
Senator:and sound. The fact that we reviewed a La Punta before this cigar, and none of us liked it. Right? But we had heard of it more. Like, that's why it's like other people talk about some of these other small brands in a way that people just, for some reason, don't
Gizmo:talk about talks about Cuaba. Right? No. You see it very, very rarely.
Senator:I mean, you know, we've sat in Havana. Even there, no one is sitting there saying
Bam Bam:Yeah. That's true.
Senator:And we heard some odd things. Right? Like, remember we were sitting there, and this nice guy we met was talking about how much he loves the Oyo Riyoseko. Mhmm. It's a very polarizing cigar.
Senator:There are a lot of people that hate that cigar. Not something that I pursue, but I was like, okay. Interesting. Good to know that, you know, there are some passionate fans of that stick. Yep.
Senator:Even if I don't really think it's for me, I've just yet to meet a Cuaba person.
Gizmo:Yeah. Not met one. And even in Havana, I don't see anybody smoking this cigar.
Bam Bam:Or any Sancho Panza person or the Fonseca guy.
Senator:No. But even Sancho Ponza. Like, we... A guy in our lounge, I think Rooster helped procure some for him. He sings its praises.
Senator:He loves the Oh, mom plus.
Gizmo:The mom plus and the Belicoso.
Senator:That and the Belicoso.
Bam Bam:That's the other Interesting.
Gizmo:Yeah. Interesting. People chase the really aged bellicosas especially. There's something about 10, 15 years of age on those that really make them pop, I guess, that people really chase those. But again, you don't see those stories about Cuaba.
Gizmo:So a couple other things to note that I think are pretty cool. Like I said, the Salamone for Cuaba, this figurado shape, was originally released in a special humidor in 1999, and this is where it started. And then from there, they released it four years later as a regular production cigar. And the final thing that I found to be very interesting is unlike all of those other markers that I listed in the other category, Cuaba is not designated to ever have a regional edition release. There will never be That's that's Apparently, from Habanos, there will never be a regional edition Cuaba.
Gizmo:There'll be never... No Cuban figurado will come out as a regional.
Bam Bam:Honestly, that doesn't break my heart. The regionals aren't something that I chase.
Gizmo:I don't think any of us do, but it's pretty interesting, right?
Senator:Why do we think that is? That's unusual. That's odd.
Gizmo:Maybe they're afraid. Maybe they're seeing that the shape... I'm I'm just, as we're recording, kind of cementing my brain to think that this is an intimidating size of... Or shape of cigar for people.
Speaker 5:Isn't the Hoyo... Which one is that?
Gizmo:Escodigos? Escogitos. That's a double corona I believe. It's a double corona.
Senator:There is some Hoyo. Rooster's right, we reviewed it. That was the one that wouldn't smoke for me.
Bam Bam:That's right. Yeah,
Speaker 5:it's a Figueroa.
Senator:There's a Figueroa.
Bam Bam:It's an Hoyo.
Gizmo:Wasn't, we didn't... Was an Elagantis. Yes. That's a Perfecto. It's not a Figueroa.
Senator:Same family.
Gizmo:A taco. It was an LCDH. I guess maybe just in the
Speaker 5:Cuaba family they will not introduce a regional.
Gizmo:There will be no regionals from Cuaba.
Bam Bam:Interesting fact.
Senator:I mean, it's a shame, honestly, because there are other brands that get regionals that I really don't like. And I actually like the flavor I'm getting out of this. I wouldn't be opposed to trying a Cuaba regional.
Speaker 5:I mean, if Habanos really wants to market it, why not do more regionals of Cuaba? They
Bam Bam:may not want to market it.
Speaker 5:Why? I own a business but I don't want to market
Bam Bam:the product. We're keeping it
Speaker 5:in house. I'm just gonna keep it.
Gizmo:Let's not apply logic to Habano's decision Let's
Speaker 4:not do that. Maybe there's only so many marketing dollars they have to go around, and they feel like they're going
Speaker 5:to get the biggest bang for their buck with those brands. I guess, but if you're trying to you have a special shape that these are rolled in, why not market that? Maybe there is a market for that. And maybe if you do regionals, that's one way of putting them out there, more in people's faces and more people would try them.
Bam Bam:Good point.
Gizmo:Also, a factor. Don't forget too, what did I list off? Six or seven Vitolas in this market that are currently active. And you look at La Gloria Cuban, which has two, one of which is a new release that's really hyped and everybody's talking about that Tirquila cigar. You know, that's very contrary to, you know, what...
Gizmo:What's going on here. Like, they're trying to revive that brand, and this one's being ignored.
Senator:Yeah. Whole thing is just frustrating because I I am genuinely enjoying this cigar.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's great.
Senator:I actually wish that they would put some more effort into the packaging, everything, marketing it, giving it a regional. I just can't believe all these years this is the first time I'm smoking one, and I like it. There's nothing wrong with these cigars
Pagoda:at all. Yet. Definitely a good cigar for the afternoon deck, meaning. In the
Gizmo:afternoon. The problem is, do you really want to pull out a cigar this size at three in the afternoon? Correct.
Senator:Yeah. Why not? On Saturday afternoon?
Bam Bam:You're done with
Gizmo:work, That's why true. That's fair.
Senator:Mean, light up a Lucy in an afternoon. What's the difference?
Bam Bam:Well, Giz lives a leisurely lifestyle.
Gizmo:Yeah, very leisurely. Okay. So speaking of going to Cuba and Cuban travel, we have a listener email that I wanted to share with you guys and see what kind of answer we can get for our friend Lizard Luigi. He says, hey, Gizmo. I'm listening to your Cuba episodes, and I just wanted to thank you for bringing all that stuff for the people and the children that you guys brought.
Gizmo:Toys, hygiene products, clothes are all stuff that they desperately need. However, I cannot help but think that every box of Cuban cigars we buy, we empower the government to keep enforcing these assistive policies. And I'm a culprit. I just want to know how you guys navigate that where you can still buy the cigars and not feel guilty about it. Should I feel guilty smoking these cigars?
Gizmo:I appreciate the input.
Bam Bam:It's a tough decision. We love the Cuban marcas. It's part of our life. Difficult to say no to them. That's a heavy question.
Bam Bam:Very heavy.
Gizmo:Way I look at it
Bam Bam:is He's not wrong.
Gizmo:The way I look at it is obviously the journey into Cuban cigars and loading up our towers like we all did, and then having that oomph to go to Cuba and experience it and meet the people, for me, really changed my perspective on the whole thing, similar to what Luigi is saying. But now it's like I look at the opportunity to go there and actually directly help people, which we've been able to do in ways that we talked about on the pod and ways that we did not. You're able to do so much good for people that that's the why for me now. Even the cigars I'm smoking now, a lot of them don't have bands on them, you know, that you're getting out of Cuba. There's wonderful cigars that are coming out of Cuba that are not from Cabanos.
Senator:I'll just say this. I mean, the thing... As I've... We've had this exact debate even before we went to Cuba and certainly when we got back. The thing for me is us stopping buying Cuban cigars, to me is just not at all helpful to a problem of people getting paid a living wage there or changing anything.
Senator:If we stop buying cigars, the Cuban government's all gonna say? All of a sudden gonna say we wanna pay people more? No, they're not. Not at all. They're gonna say we wanna employ more people?
Senator:No. They're gonna cut jobs. If we're if we're buying less cigars... I mean, of the encouraging things at least, you know, we visit these factories, and they're talking about their growth plans to train all these new rollers and Yeah. Have, you know, increase their capacity by twenty thirty, all these goals, that's more jobs now.
Senator:Is that a living wage? No, it's disgraceful what these folks are paid.
Bam Bam:It's
Senator:true. However, the alternative is them making nothing. It's much worse, but And it getting even harder for them. So I just personally don't view our purchase of Cuban cigars as at all solving for... Or lack of purchase as at all solving for the problem of folks getting a living wage there and being employed.
Senator:I just think it's... That's not what at all addressed that. There are other things that can, and I just don't see it as that.
Bam Bam:One interesting thing though, at a more intimate level of detail, the workers in the factories, what did we notice? They're respected. They're taken care of. At Illeguido, they were given a lot of additional produce, things like that to support their families. They're probably paid additional depending on how much work they want to work.
Bam Bam:They're paid by volume of cigars that they make. Those workers are happy, Pagoda, but they have a sense of accomplishment because they're making the marquee Cuban product. They're also very well taken care of.
Gizmo:I think that we should put an asterisk on that. Because Of I think, A, number one, we're a bunch of Americans rolling into their factory. They're putting on a show. Whether it's 100% of a show
Bam Bam:I don't know about or
Gizmo:20%, I think that we have to assume that these folks are going home and they're still struggling. I'm sure there are. There's no question about that. So I think that that's difficult that's certainly a difficult thing. And like Senator said, it is a sin what they're paid.
Gizmo:No question about this. But I don't think that our buying these products or not buying these products, it's a pittance
Speaker 5:of It's not going to change.
Gizmo:It changes nothing. It's an
Speaker 5:internal thing that the government, the regime, that has
Gizmo:to change for the end result to change.
Speaker 5:By us buying Cuban cigars or not buying Cuban cigars, it's not going to make an iota of difference.
Bam Bam:I'm sorry. Here's what will make an impact. Because of what we're doing right now in this recording, just talking about it, as this podcast grows and maybe other podcasts grow and develop and have the same conversation, maybe that continuous conversation that happens nationwide or globally, that'll start to resonate. And I think with that, there could be some potential change.
Pagoda:I also think that, you know, they're employed, right? Because of the demand, they're employed, and as the demand continues to grow, you'll have more employment there. Because, like we visited Corona, and he mentioned that he wants to expand the number of employees, so there'll be more and more people coming into the workforce, good or bad, you know, forgetting, like, you know, I come from India, and in India, at one point in time, I think the average, you know, wage was $200 a month or something, like, in terms of, you know, the average salary over there. And now it's gone to $2,000 a month or something. It's the same.
Pagoda:You know, it's just that over there, things are accessible at a cheaper price for those people. But, you know, having a job and feeling a sense of accomplishment and contributing to society and being a, you know, contributing member of the society is more important. We're not here really for political agendas anyway. Know, a part of me feels that I don't feel guilty at all. In fact, a part of me feels that whatever little we can do to continue this, you know, activity up, and of course, you know, be cognizant of what's really going on.
Pagoda:And at the same time, in a way, Buzz, you know, continuing to purchase these cigars really does help keep employment there.
Gizmo:And I think it's important to note too that my vision of the podcast, and I think our collective vision, especially after having visited Cuba, is to push as many listeners to make that journey and go experience the motherland of this thing that we love, and meet these human beings, and do your very best to impact them. I think that's the move.
Senator:I I would also just add on what Pagoda is saying about employment. The the type of employment that this provides there, I firmly believe, and this is a direct result of the individuals who run these factories that we've spent a lot of time with, the conditions are much better there than many jobs that still pay, unfortunately, so low. Yeah. But what they would have to endure there. I mean, you know, Ben was mentioning, you have workers who bring stuff for other people.
Senator:You know, the gifts that we give, they try to distribute them out, you know, evenly into people who need them. Like, it's like a family Yeah. At these places.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Senator:Yeah. And even in America, right, there are a few workplaces that we would truly describe as a family. Right? Like, it's all about how much you can squeeze out of the worker globally, everywhere. And it's very refreshing to see that despite how little these folks are making, they're at least treated with dignity and respect by the people that are running those factories, and that's not the Cuban government that's running them.
Gizmo:That's right.
Senator:Those are real people that have a great heart, great intentions that we've spent a lot of time with, and I'm at least glad to see them have those employment opportunities as opposed to, some of the even more labor intensive things that they could be doing where they could be treated like absolute garbage. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And as Habanos or these factories make more cigars, they're going to need more rollers. So they're going to need more training. There are going to be more trained rollers. And maybe one day they can get out of Cuba and go to Nicaragua, go to Honduras, go to Mexico, and maybe roll cigars there and make much more money than they do now. And who knows, maybe they can one day create something of their own.
Pagoda:But my perception was that leadership really takes care of them, right? Have those Currently, yeah. They have those parties, they have those events, They have those extra eggs.
Gizmo:We tied those things together. I think the recent quality improvement in Cuban cigars, the consistency, I think, is a direct result of an improvement in leadership on the ground level. Not high level leadership, but in those factories, as senators said, think.
Speaker 5:Smoking an example right now. This is March 23.
Speaker 4:I was just going to, at this point, probably echo everyone's sentiment on this, but the revolutionary change will not be done on the battlefields of the tobacco industry for Cuba, okay? So if you have any kind of altruistic bone in your body that thinks it would be, maybe you should check yourself a little bit,
Pagoda:I don't know.
Speaker 4:But also, this is something they're very proud of. It's a gift that they have that they want to share with the world, and if you're not helping support that, you're not actually helping support the people.
Senator:It's something
Speaker 4:that is part of, someone else mentions, part of their culture, it's part of the island, it's part of who they are, and they're sharing it. Whatever way they can do it, they're making it happen. Another thing to consider is these people actually have great jobs, and they're a small subset of all Cuba, so there's a lot of Cuba that have nothing to do with tobacco that are living a life that has nothing to do with the tobacco industry, and it's not great. So you have to kind of frame it up from that perspective as
Speaker 5:And you cannot understand the culture in Cuba
Gizmo:Unless you go.
Speaker 5:If you have not gone.
Gizmo:Gotta go.
Speaker 5:Yes. By living in this country, you don't understand Cuban culture. You don't understand the generosity of the people. You don't understand how they live, what they do in their daily lives. I mean, we were walking in the streets, and people would just invite us to their house, like, Come
Gizmo:join us. Who does that?
Pagoda:Nobody.
Speaker 5:No, people here don't do that. I mean, I barely know my neighbors.
Gizmo:I my don't neighbors. They're directly next to me.
Speaker 5:There, I mean, everybody knows each other. You're more friendly guy, dude.
Bam Bam:Gotta be sad.
Gizmo:Sorry, man.
Speaker 5:So I
Gizmo:would say pack your bags, go
Speaker 5:to Cuba, learn the culture, experience the culture, go there, smoke cigars, buy custom rolled cigars if you really want to And help out the
Senator:on exactly that, the fact that this is an industry there that you can go and experience firsthand and directly help people within.
Bam Bam:Mhmm.
Senator:Like, people who are picking fruit, people who are doing some of these other labor intensive jobs in Cuba, There is no tourism going to visit these folks while they're doing their jobs that's giving them extra money. That's providing clothing if they need it. You know, we're bringing suitcases worth of stuff to give to folks there. Those other jobs, they don't have that that same access. Right?
Senator:So I think some of these people that are in these roles, thankfully, again, it's not... We're not trying to at all suggest that these are
Gizmo:They're not painting a rosy picture.
Senator:Not great, amazing jobs, but there's more opportunity within them than countless other jobs that they could be doing in Cuba.
Speaker 4:Charity is not a quid pro quo, and it is not black and white. You can be charitable and not have any agenda, and the fact that we have to define that is upsetting in a way. Sorry to interrupt.
Bam Bam:Our only agenda is that we happen to love what they make.
Gizmo:Yeah, and again, what we've learned is that we really love that culture that Brewster just talked about, the people that we've met. It's my favorite place on earth. Hands down, anywhere I visited, I've been very lucky to travel a lot in my previous professional career, It's my favorite place in the world. Hands down, I love it, and I can't wait to go back. I think that that to me is everything about Cuban cigars now.
Gizmo:It's changed my full perspective simply by getting on a plane and landing at that airport and experiencing
Speaker 5:Cuba. I'm ready to book another
Gizmo:Let's go. --. I'm ready to go tomorrow.. Total, baby. Alright, boys.
Gizmo:We're into the last... I would say last third here. We're coming up on it of the Cuaba Salamones. What do you guys think?
Bam Bam:Still very good.
Gizmo:Mayans performing wonderfully.
Bam Bam:Yeah. For me, the mineral aspect has ramped up a bit. Still nice and smooth and enjoyable.
Senator:I gotta say for an afternoon smoke, this is as good as it gets. Truly, to slot in at that moment, not at all exaggerating.
Bam Bam:See, this is surprising for this particular vitola and marca. This commentary, I wasn't expecting it.
Gizmo:I just... I wasn't expecting it.
Senator:I think of so many cigars that are not as full as I would normally go for, and then we start having the conversation of, alright. Would this slide in the afternoon? And my answer is yes, but there's something lacking in the cigar. Like, the flavor's so muted or so mild that it's not even interesting enough to withstand an afternoon. This still has complexity to it.
Senator:Yeah. This would be incredibly satisfying. I mean, I'm thinking about, you know, we've... We're at a barbecue the other day. Like, just sitting there with this Would've been great.
Senator:For a meal would've been incredible. Yes.
Gizmo:I love too for the complexity and the different kind of notes that we've gotten. Mhmm. And I really think that this has kind of taken us on a two or three act journey so far. I think it's changing a little bit now. We're in
Bam Bam:the lab. What profiles are you catching here?
Gizmo:Honestly, I'm getting a little leather now.
Bam Bam:Yeah, that's that.
Gizmo:It's getting a little leathery for me here. I'm still getting the earth. I think the sweetness has kind of ramped down. I think that's gone, but it's a really medium bodied affair through and through. It hasn't ramped up in strength at all, but I think now it's settled into this leathery, earthy, short bready maybe kind of amalgamation.
Gizmo:I think it's really delicious.
Bam Bam:And this right now is pairing perfectly.
Gizmo:Yeah, tequila's really good with it.
Bam Bam:Right now it's perfect.
Speaker 4:The nose on the tequila.
Gizmo:Yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 4:Don't forget that the construction of this cigar, the composition of it is changing. The ring gauge is changing as
Bam Bam:well.
Speaker 4:There's definitely some shift, but to me it's subtle. When you taste that change, maybe the leather, it's just one of those knobs is just being amped up a little bit, but not everything else.
Gizmo:I think the blend on this, I got to give credit for the size of the cigar, for the length of it, for the varying degrees of complexity, it's really just a brilliant blend. I think the fact that the six of us are with all varying kinds of palates and preferences, the fact that all six of us are enjoying the cigar to some degree is kind of surprising at its age.
Speaker 5:I do wish the notes that I was getting in the first inch had kind of continued Could a little bit
Bam Bam:that pungent sweet
Speaker 5:Like I missed those
Bam Bam:Savriness disappeared after that first inch.
Speaker 5:So that would have been nice if it continued, but it's not bad.
Pagoda:I did get a bit of bitterness, very slight bitterness. I don't know.
Speaker 4:Right now, maybe. I'm getting a little more age right now. Or not youth,
Gizmo:lack of age. I would think that the youth, if we're going get hit with it, it's going to be in this last third. We'll see. I think in a couple of years, this would be a pretty good cigar. I think that this is going to age very, very nicely.
Gizmo:And I'm curious what's gonna pop with age. Know, because this is one of those cigars, you know, Poobah always says it previews. I think this cigar, the preview on this is just excellent. Because it's not a cigar... You know, we've had young cigars or cigars that it's like, this is kind of...
Gizmo:It is what it is, right? I think this is a cigar that you can kind of see into the future that this is going to be dynamic with two, three, five, 10 years of age on it. Obviously, all of those being very different experiences. There's just something about Cuban tobacco, how it ages. It develops, it gets smooth, I think sometimes it gets more complex and it just changes.
Gizmo:It's a beautiful thing.
Senator:I'm just amazed. I'm already thinking about the next time we're in Havana, and we're in a shop. This will be the first time in my life that if I actually see a box of guava, we sometimes find these
Bam Bam:random boxes
Senator:with age. Last time we were there, Rooster and I, we found a $20.17 Monty box. We're like, Been. Done. Sold.
Senator:That's amazing. I'm now gonna turn over a guava box and try to find one of these with some age on it and just buy a single or two to enjoy in an afternoon there.
Gizmo:Because it's funny, think about how many times we've been in those humidors. Do you even remember seeing Cuaba?
Senator:Mm-mm. No. And they probably were there. I'm sure they were there.
Speaker 5:I don't think we were looking for them.
Gizmo:Of course not.
Speaker 5:The other thing is you can't really go into a store
Gizmo:and buy a box because you can't You can't transact.
Pagoda:Yeah, you
Senator:can't transact. We found some ways around that.
Gizmo:We did. We all Which is also We are interested this role. It's actually going to get more difficult transacting because the Cuban government's trying to restrict the use of cash even in private businesses. So in the government owned businesses like the LCDH shops, the various shops there, Any time that you've used cash, it's just you're giving that cash to a Cuban citizen who's then running their own debit card
Bam Bam:To buy it.
Gizmo:And taking the cash home and putting it in the bank. We can't use our debit cards there or credit cards. Now I think it's going to become even more restrictive. So I'm curious how that's going to change our ability to purchase in the shops when we go there to actually get cigars. It may actually make it harder.
Speaker 5:Things are very dynamic there. It changes like monthly.
Bam Bam:That's right.
Gizmo:It's constantly
Speaker 5:changing. Yeah. I mean, just look at the Cuban peso. When we went in March, it was $140 Cuban peso to $1 And then we heard
Gizmo:It was $170
Pagoda:June went up to 1 and
Speaker 5:$65 $170 Now it's up to They think it might be up to like 300 Cuban peso to $1 in a couple of months.
Gizmo:That's going back to what we were talking about before. That's a terrible inflation situation for them buying
Bam Bam:Going in
Gizmo:the Yeah. Wrong That's really difficult for the Cuban people. As a tourist... It's good for us.
Senator:Yeah. It's a monopoly money situation.
Speaker 4:I would say get all of your Cuban cigars that you can because there's inflation like that, runaway inflation in an underdeveloped country with that kind of instability never really goes well.
Gizmo:It's not good.
Speaker 4:Just saying. Historically. It's true.
Gizmo:Get your Cuaba's. I'm I'm
Bam Bam:actually kinda serious.
Gizmo:Know you are.
Senator:Never thought we'd say.
Gizmo:So, boys, we're coming into football season now. The Johnny Manziel documentary on Netflix. Incredible. So I only saw pieces of it.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I haven't seen it yet, by
Gizmo:the watched the whole thing. You guys watched the whole thing. There's some really, really powerful stuff in that documentary.
Senator:We all obviously lived through this as it was happening his whole career. You forget just how wild and exceptional his story is when you see it all replayed in, you know, just a matter of hours as opposed to over a year's time we watched that unfold. I mean, number one, the level of talent that this guy had. I mean, he's the only freshman in history to win the Heisman.
Bam Bam:Yeah. In college, he was incredible. Unbelievable. He was incredible.
Senator:Yeah. The amount of money that he made Texas A and M, it is insane. They had a stat in there. The most that school had ever fundraised in its history in a calendar year was $300,000,000. When Johnny Manziel had that Heisman season, they raised almost a billion dollars.
Senator:It was like 700 and something million. Wow.
Bam Bam:So maybe
Gizmo:he didn't get a penny
Senator:of it. He didn't get a penny of it. And that's where then you watch the documentary, and he talks about how his good friend in college, they found ways for him to sign autographs And make in these private settings, and make $30 in a night. Wow. Imagine a college kid in a night just signing his autograph, $30, every single night, just all that money coming in.
Bam Bam:It's tremendous.
Senator:And it's easy to sit there and criticize this kid like, he's throwing away his career, he's breaking the rules, all this. He took a school from earning 300,000,000 a year to 700 something million a year, and didn't get a damn dime of it.
Gizmo:That's true.
Senator:I mean, I'm sorry. You watch that. You can only feel bad for these athletes.
Gizmo:And if he was playing today Today.
Speaker 4:He'd get it. He'd
Gizmo:be rich.
Senator:Actually sell his image and likeness.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Exactly.
Senator:And the other crazy thing is then you watch how he got away with this stuff. So a part of... Obviously, his whole story is this tragic figure that he just is always sabotaging himself and his career, but that's a direct product of somehow he would get away with everything, and that made him at some point just feel invincible. There's nothing he can't get away with.
Gizmo:And listen, college kids in general, college men, how do you feel when you're in college? You feel like you're this invincible Sure. Superhero. And imagine on that scale, at that level, performing like he did.
Bam Bam:He was a star.
Gizmo:That was really informative.
Senator:This is what's crazy to me. So he starts... The the the investigators for the NCA start figuring out that he's making money on the side through these autograph things. They have to find a way to prove this. So Johnny Manziel and his buddy, these are, you know, they're not rocket scientists.
Senator:These two kids come up with actually a brilliant scheme where Johnny Manziel was giving all this money, tens of thousands a night he was earning to his grandfather in cash. Wow.
Gizmo:With all
Senator:cash. Yes. Having his grandfather write him checks for this same amount of money so that he could say that his... He concocted this whole story that his family was super wealthy. He grew
Gizmo:up poor. It was like an oil thing, right?
Senator:Total fallacy. His family was not wealthy at all.
Bam Bam:Oh, I didn't know that.
Senator:He was cleaning the money by giving it to his grandfather, and having him write checks, and he said to the NCA, I have a check every every month for my grandfather for $50,100 grand, however much. He gives me money. My family's very wealthy, and they had no way to prove otherwise. Smart. So that's how he got away with it.
Senator:It was brilliant.
Speaker 4:Wow. Very smart.
Senator:And then you watch... He's partying with Floyd Mayweather and every actress and and athlete, and he's sitting courtside at games in tickets that cost $20,000. People are saying, how's this kid affording this? And the only way he could justify it was creating this narrative that his family is really wealthy, which is not the case. So it's just...
Senator:The story is so wild. It's it's really well done. It's worth watching. Can't wait to watch
Gizmo:it. So I have a question. How did how did he get away with the volume of autographs coming out that people had? Like, wasn't that a dead giveaway that this guy is signing the same footballs, the same jerseys, whatever it might be? Like, how did that not give it away?
Pagoda:So there's nothing in terms of the rules, in terms of whether or not he can sign autographs. He can sign as I many
Gizmo:see. So it's Right. A money
Senator:So they could improve paper trail.
Bam Bam:Because it was cash.
Senator:Yeah. Yeah. Wild. It's unreal.
Gizmo:So obviously, he had some pretty tough stuff in the documentary too.
Senator:Even... Here's this. When he's going into the... Enter the NFL draft, and this is a guy he was partying, doing drugs, he he basically admits that he had a kid on the team pee for him because they were drug tested all the time. He never never peed for himself.
Senator:He was on drugs the whole time he was in college. He wouldn't be eligible to play. He had somebody else doing all the testing. Then he goes to the NFL draft, and I'm sorry, you can't get someone to pee in a cup for you.
Gizmo:Yeah. They're little worse.
Senator:The NFL.
Gizmo:They're a little better at that.
Senator:Exactly. And so his agent... And the agent actually is one of the best parts. This guy, I'm forgetting his name. He's one of the few guys when he met with him to try to become his agent that said, you are not going to be a first round pick.
Senator:Everyone's probably telling you that they're full of shit. No general manager's gonna draft you in the first round, which was exactly the case initially. Every GM was like, we're not gonna risk money on this kid. He's a party animal. Mhmm.
Senator:He's not taking his career seriously. And so he hires his agent, and he tells him for the next three months, you are not gonna do a single drug. You're not gonna drink. You're gonna just train. I'm gonna have a a a video recording of all these workouts you're doing.
Senator:We need to prove you're serious, and that maybe in college, you'd like to have fun, but now you know you're a grown man. You're going to the NFL. This is a different time in your life. To Johnny Manziel's credit, he does this for almost exactly three months. The day before he's supposed to go to the combine, he goes on...
Senator:Goes to some party. He does drugs. He drinks everything. Calls his agent. I fucked up.
Senator:And his agent's like, are you kidding me? You're gonna have to you're gonna have to pee in a cup tomorrow. Soon as you get to the combine, they test you. There's no way he's gonna pass. So again, and this is how...
Senator:You start to understand. It's not to justify that this kid threw his life away in many ways, but you understand kinda how he kept being enabled to think that he could get away with this stuff. So his agent comes up with this brilliant scheme where he's gonna fly into the combine, physically show up there. So it's like he's not running away. He's not hiding anything.
Senator:He didn't do any drugs. Shows up to the combine, has his father check into a hospital saying like he feels like he had a heart attack or something, and then when he's at the combine, before he can stay to pee in a cup or anything, he says... He texts his phone like, oh, shoot. I gotta go. Flies out to go see his father.
Senator:So they have no reason to believe that he's dodging the drug test. They think he's going to Ted to his father. That's how he got away with the whole whole bender.
Pagoda:That's some funny...
Bam Bam:Unbelievable. Unbelievable.
Gizmo:That's crazy.
Senator:He wouldn't have been eligible for the draft.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Pagoda:It's a it's a great documentary.
Bam Bam:Where was he drafted? First round.
Senator:Right? Cleveland's ball. At the very end
Bam Bam:of the first round. Yeah.
Senator:Cleveland's ball. Agent had to beg. Cleveland even was not going to take him at first. Mhmm. And he kept falling, and then the agent thought that Cleveland had the best chance of giving him an opportunity, basic...
Senator:I mean, they were desperate. They needed a quarterback. And so he called, gave this whole thing about how he's changed. He's a different guy, all this stuff, and they bought it, and obviously, it didn't work out well.
Gizmo:I saw the the clip, obviously, of him saying that he watched zero tape. Zero seconds of tape his entire time in
Speaker 5:the NFL. He never saw any tape.
Gizmo:Never watched his beat Alabama Yeah.
Speaker 5:At at their peak.
Gizmo:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was huge. In Alabama.
Bam Bam:That was an incredible game. Unforgettable.
Speaker 4:What do you mean he never watched tape?
Gizmo:He never watched tape? He never studied
Speaker 4:tape in college or at the
Bam Bam:No, at the pros.
Pagoda:I think both. Both in the pros.
Gizmo:Both, yeah. No tape.
Speaker 4:So it's just talent.
Gizmo:Yeah. Talent and creative tenacity, right? I mean, figuring out ways to make shit happen.
Bam Bam:It just goes to show that if he actually focused and cared about his career, he'd still be playing.
Pagoda:Yeah. Oh, was excellent. Yeah. In fact, you know, Raw
Bam Bam:talent was incredible.
Pagoda:Being a longhorn, we missed out on him. Mhmm. And I was in school, 11, 12, 13, and 12, I think, he got recruited by A and M. And in 2012 was when he, when they beat Alabama. A and M had just moved from Big twelve to the SEC.
Pagoda:And, you know, we had let go of another star like the many before.
Gizmo:But he wanted to be a longhorn.
Pagoda:He wanted to be, think so. But he was a bit short, but overall excellent, excellent quarterback. Sure.
Gizmo:It's really amazing to me too that instead of being parental or like his father, his grandfather playing into the scheme, instead of helping this kid in college, be a better person, make corrective measures, they're like His father was very strict. They're colluding.
Senator:No. No. I will say this. His parents... So I don't know that they even talk at this point.
Senator:His parents tried so hard to get through to him, and it got so bad they went years without speaking. They just His father would work.
Gizmo:Dad would not check-in a hospital pretending to have a heart attack for me to get out of something.
Senator:If your son's lifelong dream was to be in the NFL
Bam Bam:He would
Gizmo:do it. I would do it. I'm saying my dad wouldn't
Bam Bam:do it.
Senator:Okay. Well, I think most dads would is my point.
Speaker 5:What? His his father wanted him to play football.
Bam Bam:Of course.
Speaker 5:He wanted
Gizmo:to get into the pros.
Senator:But once he was in the league and he just still couldn't clean up his act and his parents tried everything
Bam Bam:He couldn't be a pro.
Senator:They just... They stopped talking. They're like, nothing we are doing is getting through this guy, and they they just kinda severed ties for years.
Gizmo:So what is he doing now? Does he have any sort of
Bam Bam:Well, played in the Canadian league for a while.
Gizmo:After the NFL. After football? How about He does a cigar podcast.
Bam Bam:Hey, Johnny. What's up?
Senator:So it's a good question because the one thing that I was actually annoyed with the documentary, it ended without me being able to answer that question.
Gizmo:No resolution of I had
Senator:no clue what he's doing right now.
Speaker 5:They showed him hanging out with his buddies. Buddies. At his house.
Pagoda:And a beautiful house, you know, with friends, and he's just chilling.
Gizmo:I mean, obviously he has more money than God, but I mean Well, he's in his thirties now, right?
Senator:Oh, I'm sure. Oh, no, no, he does not have more money than God. So one of the things he talks about is when he had contemplated suicide and decided he was gonna try to commit suicide, he said his goal was to spend every dollar he
Gizmo:Oh my god.
Senator:So I'm sure he's pissed away the vast majority of what he's made. Sure.
Pagoda:But you know, he's still a name, and, you know, people probably pay him to show up somewhere.
Gizmo:I'm And sure Netflix paid him pretty handsomely for this documentary. I
Bam Bam:hope so. I hope so.
Gizmo:I would think, right?
Pagoda:But I'm glad he's living, you
Bam Bam:know? A tough story.
Speaker 4:It's very sad.
Senator:The same agent that I told you concocted that whole scheme so that he could be eligible for the draft, he left him. Really? Fired his own client.
Gizmo:Wow.
Senator:Couldn't work with
Gizmo:them.
Senator:That's pretty rare. Yep.
Gizmo:Well, there you go. I'm gonna have go watch it now. I only saw clips of it. Just didn't have the time. Oh, I'm on it.
Pagoda:Yeah. But it's really interesting. Like, you you have these young kids who suddenly come into money. Like, obviously, not the money they really deserve, but still a lot more money they can. I think the league needs to be better in terms of helping them cope up with, you know, these new responsibilities.
Bam Bam:They do have financial advisors now that they can tap into through the players union I think. That's there.
Gizmo:The agent's name was Eric Burkhard. Burkhard. Okay. The other Netflix show I don't know if you guys saw any of it speaking of football it's called Quarterback.
Speaker 4:Great.
Gizmo:So it Yeah. I actually did watch quite a bit of that because I think it started earlier came out earlier than the Manziel, but it follows Patrick Mahomes, Marcus Mariota, and
Senator:Kirk Cousins.
Gizmo:Kirk Cousins.
Senator:You like that? That's his famous line.
Gizmo:Yeah. Cousins. Kirk Cousins.
Pagoda:I thought it roosters.
Gizmo:Oh, yeah. And roosters. And roosters.
Pagoda:You'll like that.
Speaker 5:You'll like that.
Gizmo:I found that to be really fascinating. I love Kirk Cousins now. Yeah, and I think Mahomes is kind of the opposite of what we're hearing about Manziel.
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah.
Gizmo:That dude works, man.
Bam Bam:He's a pro.
Gizmo:He grinds. He grinds, grinder. Yeah, you gotta grind. You gotta grind. Got to.
Gizmo:Check that show out too. Very good.
Speaker 4:It's good.
Senator:The funny thing is they're gonna do a second season of it.
Gizmo:Yeah, it's a Peyton Manning production.
Senator:Yeah, Peyton Manning came out and said we're doing a second season. Apparently Daniel Jones got asked to be on it and he declined.
Gizmo:That's like watching He's too focused.
Bam Bam:But he's a manning disciple though, isn't he?
Senator:Yeah. But I mean, that's gotta be Pretty amazing. Huge level of distraction in the middle of the season to have like every moment of your Oh,
Bam Bam:like hard knocks?
Gizmo:The Jets will be fine.
Pagoda:They should just send Zach over there. Listen. The...
Speaker 4:Have a Hard Knocks team ever done very well? No. Not that I know of.
Gizmo:No. But they're always picking the bottom of the barrel teams. I mean, the teams that are eligible are like And
Bam Bam:the jets are the bottom of the barrel.
Gizmo:Are they are the teams that perform the worst of
Bam Bam:what's even in the barrel. They're in the dirt somewhere.
Gizmo:But they under the barrel. They've done some acquire Tome
Pagoda:is a madman. Under
Speaker 5:the widow widow Jane barrel.
Speaker 4:Actually it's actually a punishment from the league.
Senator:Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. It's like in the Premier League when you get relegated, relegated. You've got to do hard knocks now, man.
Bam Bam:I don't like Goodell. No.
Speaker 4:Who does actually? The owners, that's Bennett. Just gave
Gizmo:me huge money.
Pagoda:They'll probably get paid, right?
Gizmo:Oh yeah. And you know he gets, with his new deal, he has access to the private jet for the rest of his life. Even after he's done being commissioner, part of his deal is private jet access whenever he wants on demand Of course. For the rest of his life force.
Senator:Not a single corporate CEO of any Fortune 100 company gets that, and the commissioner of the National Football League, Doug, it's so ridiculous.
Pagoda:It is.
Gizmo:That's a pretty incredible perk. Fuck. I wanna go have
Speaker 4:lunch shareholders of the NFL. Right? Yeah. Except for the owners.
Gizmo:Just 30 billionaires.
Speaker 4:A bunch of billionaires. It's
Pagoda:a private club.
Speaker 4:The NFL is a is a billionaires club.
Gizmo:I saw that the Cowboys, you know, obviously, that's the number one priced franchise. Yeah. Just net... You know, the value of it.
Bam Bam:I think in all of sports.
Gizmo:Now it's 9,200,000,000.
Bam Bam:Wow. Yeah. That's crazy.
Gizmo:Almost 10,000,000,000
Senator:It's just comical.
Pagoda:I'm sorry. Know who's gonna come and buy me, right? It's the Saudis.
Gizmo:The Saudi... Yeah. Very well could be. So boys, we're coming to the end of our evening here tonight with the Tequila Ocho Reposado, the widow Jane version, and our Cuaba Salamones. Pairing has been excellent for me guys.
Gizmo:Very good. I'm very, very pleased with both tonight. Absolutely great. Yeah. What do you guys think?
Bam Bam:I want to ask Pagoda. You got some ammonia early on. How is it for you now? Because you're getting down into that thing.
Pagoda:Not ammonia, mean, I felt a little bit of bitterness. Bitterness. Yeah. Hasn't been as remarkable as I think the first half. Let's put it this way.
Pagoda:I think it's really flattened out to me. Still continues with the, I think, the earthiness and it's becoming very, somewhat becoming like one of those new worlds where the second half is not working too much for me. I don't know. That's my
Senator:I'll say this, the second half I don't have an issue with writ large. The midway point I actually think was some of the most enjoyable points in this cigar. The last quarter is where the youth is showing up for me.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's slightly muddled. Harsh. A little muddled and harsh.
Gizmo:And it has that It has that thing on the front of your the front of your tongue. A little tingly. That's just had...
Speaker 5:It's just
Gizmo:a little bit of like, it's not pleasant. Just a touch of it. But I'm still getting... My cigar right now is heavily leather. It's very much leather.
Senator:And the thing I'll say, I'm not gonna knock it scoring wise aggressively for that, because this is a 2023 cigar. Yeah. Almost every 2020 cigar is gonna, in that last quarter, show its age. It's almost impossible not to. So the fact that three quarters of this I have enjoyed very much, this is still...
Senator:I'm I'm very pleased overall.
Pagoda:Yeah.
Gizmo:Are you guys ready to do the formal liquor rating on the Tequila Ocho Reposado? Yep. Widow Jane? Yep. Alright.
Gizmo:Bam bam, you're up. Let me take a sip.
Bam Bam:So initially, was at a six on this thing. Really? I was early on. It just... I didn't have any ice.
Bam Bam:I put a chip. It got better. I do like the other brands or the other bottles that this maker has, so I'm gonna go... I'm between a seven and an eight now. I'm...
Bam Bam:And I'm closer to a seven. I'll be generous and go with an eight because I actually like the pairing tonight. It was beautiful. And I'm just gonna judge it for what it is tonight.
Gizmo:You were closer to a seven. How'd you get to an eight?
Speaker 5:Glad you said that
Bam Bam:Like was a I said, I'm being generous, I'm gonna be a little generous tonight. I'm at an eight.
Speaker 5:So what made you go to an eight?
Speaker 4:The pairing. He was at $7.25, that knocked him to $7.75 and then
Bam Bam:he rounded up. And as I thought about it, it paired nicely with the cigar, I can't... For what it is tonight, it's an eight.
Gizmo:This is Bam Bam Math, folks. All right, grinder.
Speaker 4:I'm at a seven. Really enjoyed it. I'm probably not as generous as you, but a lot of the same thinking in that the pairing was really fantastic. I don't think it's a tequila I'd drink without this pairing. There's other ones I'd grab instead.
Speaker 4:It was very enjoyable tonight. It complemented the cigar very well, and for that reason, I'm giving it a seven.
Pagoda:Alright. Pagoda. Yeah. For me, it's actually a nine. I really like this tequila.
Pagoda:Wow. I like the pleasant smell. I like a little bit of the smoky and sweetness on the finish. It's one of the tequilas I've really enjoyed. The one thing I don't like is how I feel the day after.
Pagoda:But having said that, you know, just in terms of the flavor profile, I think it just... You know, for me, I'm not a really big fan of tequila, so it just brings back, you know, some of the flavor profiles of, you know, liquors I would generally enjoy. So for me, it's a nine.
Senator:Senator. So I'm I'm at an eight. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I'm actually... I enjoyed it more than I thought I would because I've had this before, not a lot of it, just a small glass. The the widow Jane barrel gives it a bit of a bite, a little a little heat in a way that I'm not really used to from Tequila Ocho.
Senator:What I love about this brand, if you have their regular Reposado or their Anejo, they're very smooth, very easy drinking. So, I'm not usually looking for that heat from this brand, but I will say the complexity of flavor, it did pair extremely well with this cigar. So I'm at an eight, but the regular Repo and the Anejo are like nines for me. It doesn't quite hit the same.
Bam Bam:I agree wholeheartedly.
Gizmo:Yeah. I mean, that sums it up perfectly for me. I'm also at an eight. It's a reason that I'm not gonna run out and buy this versus even the other Tequila Ochos. It's not something that I'm gonna really stock in my humidor at all.
Gizmo:I don't know if I would put this on the table and serve it to guests other than the Are
Senator:cold keeping liquor in your humidor these days?
Gizmo:You know what I'm saying. My collection, sorry. My brain is fried. But you know, it's just not a tequila that I'm gonna keep at the house. But for what it did tonight, how it tasted, I loved the brand, I thought it was great, but it's definitely an eight for me.
Bam Bam:That's a... Look, an
Gizmo:eight's
Bam Bam:a great score.
Senator:It's still
Gizmo:a great score.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah.
Senator:I would drink it again, Yeah.
Gizmo:So it ends up at a flat 8.0, boys. There you go.
Bam Bam:Respectable score for this. Yeah, perfect.
Gizmo:You guys ready to do the formal lizard rating now on the Cuaba Salamence? Right, Rooster,
Speaker 5:you're up. Good cigar and pretty impressive that this is a 23. But I think a little bit of age will definitely help the cigar. The cigar started out great. I mean, really enjoyed the floral notes and the fruity notes that were coming through in the front end.
Speaker 5:But that kind of dissipated after a while. So I'm between also a seven and eight. I'm closer to an eight, but I'm gonna give it a seven.
Bam Bam:Not generous. Jesus Christ.
Gizmo:Senator.
Senator:I'm in the same camp, and then I've been debating between a seven or an eight, but I am closer to an eight, and I'm gonna give it an eight as one should. And the reason for that... The the thing that stands out about this cigar for me is complexity. Like, that's my big takeaway. I never imagined that, frankly, any Cuaba is all that complex.
Senator:The fact that a young Cuaba, a 2023 cigar for at least half of it, I thought was very complex, and three quarters of it, I enjoyed thoroughly. The last quarter, I did not, but I'm still gonna round up to an eight because it's previewing so well that I would actually love to try this with some age. And this for me has made me much more now willing to smoke other Cuabahs in a way I wasn't before. So for all those reasons, I'm at a solid eight.
Gizmo:So I'm also at an eight. Previewing, I don't think it's ever gonna get to a 10. That's my assumption. I think it gets to a nine with that age. I think for how it performed today, that last quarter, if we're really being hard asses and judging it on its youth, it could be a six or seven with that last quarter.
Gizmo:I don't think that's fair for the performance and its age and where it's at right now. I mean, think about New World cigars, how aged they are before we smoke them. So I'm hedging a little bit, but I think eight is the right number for how this performed tonight. Construction was great. You know, we didn't even talk about the smoke output.
Gizmo:There were a couple times where I pushed out my draw, and it was like, I couldn't see you guys.
Pagoda:Combustion, yeah.
Gizmo:The combustion was fantastic, and you know, the construction was just excellent. Flavor wise, leather is a note that I chase, so I was very pleasantly surprised when that came in in the second half. I love that. One of my favorite cigars is the Sir Winston from H. Upmann.
Gizmo:That's a core flavor note of that cigar. So I think that for me, leather adds elegance, and I think that it it moved this cigar from something that could be casual. I think it is an elegant medium type of smoke, and I'm looking forward to, like Senator said, trying it again in the future. How far down did you go? I went down to
Bam Bam:the Is your stick right there? Yeah, right there. So was about an inch and threefour or something like that left. Okay.
Gizmo:Yeah, this one's mine here.
Pagoda:Hold on.
Bam Bam:Yeah, I see it. Oh, okay. So about an inch
Gizmo:and Yeah, about an inch. More than an mine's about an inch left. So that last bit really kind of started biting, but I'm not judging it on that.
Bam Bam:Yeah, I've got some confidence.
Gizmo:Because I think in six months, I think that goes away. Yeah. All right, Pagoda.
Pagoda:Yeah, same, seven and eight. You know, I think I'm gonna end up giving it a seven, and the reason is I'm really struggling in the last quarter with this. It did start off really well. In fact, I was thinking, I could just envision myself on the deck smoking this in the first, you know, we began, they were obviously started with a little bit of floral, earthiness. I think it just, a little bit of the sweetness as well, and then it just dissipated towards the end, like I mentioned before as well.
Pagoda:I think it's a seven for me. Okay.
Gizmo:Grinder.
Speaker 4:I am an eight for all the same reasons you guys mentioned that you were eights. It smoked great today.
Pagoda:It was
Speaker 4:an eight today. And as Poobah says, it's previewing very, very well, and I see this as a nine in a year, and it was a great cigar.
Gizmo:To that point, I'm actually going to mark this cigar because I have a bunch that I got at the same time. So I'm actually going to put this aside for us. I'm going to put seven aside So for future I want to actually smoke this specific box
Bam Bam:Great idea.
Gizmo:With time. Not this specific box, but another box of the same code. Obviously, there's only 10 in a box. But I'm going to put some aside so we can smoke this in a year or two. All right, Ben.
Bam Bam:Cool. So it definitely started off as an eight. That first inch was really delicious. Pungent, fruit and floral was fantastic. And that middle was very good.
Bam Bam:The complexity continued, but at the very end I took it just below an inch, so the beginning for me was an eight, the end was an absolute six. That complexity for me, it did dissipate. So if I average what's the middle between eight and six, I gotta go to seven.
Senator:No, the middle between it is a four. Yeah. I'm just doing bad bad bad.
Bam Bam:Well, that is not bad bad bad.
Pagoda:That's $20 a stick.
Bam Bam:Yeah, seriously though, I mean if it begins at an eight and a six, I have to go to seven.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. So the formal lizard rating on the Cuaba Salamones is a 7.5. Let's round up. I think that's a great score for this sonar being six I never
Bam Bam:called for rounding up, did
Speaker 5:I think
Senator:you rounded up aggressively earlier. I did,
Bam Bam:that was generous.
Speaker 4:I think it's a great score.
Bam Bam:Yeah, I think it's what it is right now.
Gizmo:Yeah, I think it performed very well, and like we said, the pairing was great, and I think a listener hearing 7.5, think that's just
Bam Bam:To recommend.
Gizmo:I think that's counting in youth. Think you buy these, sit on them maybe for a year instead of six months. I think you're gonna get closer to a mid eight on a rating or close to a nine with some age, like Grindr said. But really an excellent cigar. And being a 57 ring gauge, it's not my favorite size.
Gizmo:So to to have this cigar be as enjoyable as it was, you know, I I couldn't believe it.
Senator:I also wanna say anyone who enjoys a Figurado, there are not many Cuban Figurados. And the ones that exist... I mean, I don't think we've had great experiences with them. As much as I love Partagas, I know you you bought a Salam... A Partagas Salamone box a long time ago.
Senator:It was awful. And it was terrible. So I think if you like this shape, this is definitely worth trying. And I say that because I actually... When this started, I was at a nine on this cigar, not an eight when it started.
Bam Bam:It's it's horrible.
Senator:And it's the n that brought me down to an eight. So I I really think if this is your shape, this is a Cuban... This is a marker that's actually done it well, and that's only gonna get better. So even young, think it's worth exploring.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. An 8.0 for the Tequila Ocho Reposado Widow Jane and a 7.5 for the Cuaba Salamone. And we will definitely be revisiting this exact code of this exact cigar at some point, which I don't think we've said before, but I think that we deserve. I think this cigar deserves a second shot with some age.
Bam Bam:Yeah. And I think you're do... You're saying that's because it's so surprising, the It is. The commentary that we got for this one. And the previewing.
Bam Bam:It's worth looking at again.
Gizmo:Yeah. Absolutely. Alright, boys. A great night. We'll see you all next week.
Gizmo:Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod.com. That's loungelizardspod.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
Gizmo:If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us. Hello at lounge lizards pod dot com. You can also find us on Instagram at loungelizardspod. We really appreciate your time, and we'll, we'll see you next week.