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Real World Retirement is a podcast hosted by Alexander Pushman, dedicated to exploring all aspects of retirement planning with the help of expert financial advisors. Each episode dives into crucial topics like Social Security, investing, taxes, legacy planning, and income strategies, offering real-world insights and practical advice. Listeners are encouraged to stay engaged by following the podcast, sharing their questions, and shaping future episodes tailored to their retirement needs.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;23;04
Unknown
Welcome back, everybody. Real world retirement. I'm excited to get back with you. We've been having so much fun on these podcasts. My name is Alexander Pushman. I am your host. And we're on behalf of Foguth Financial Group. So let me give you a little bit of background on, you know, who we are, what we do. My you know, obviously me being a senior advisor here with Focus Financial Group, I've been in the business over a decade.
00;00;23;04 - 00;00;53;13
Unknown
I've done over 3,002nd opinions, with families all across the country. Their retirement picture. You know, you do something 3000 times. Trends reveal themselves to you. And so what we've been able to do as a, as a company, as an organization here at Foguth Financial Group is we have over 20 expert advisors. And so the whole concept of this podcast I always like to revisit this is to really help educate people on those retirement specific topics that are super confusing.
00;00;53;13 - 00;01;14;08
Unknown
You go on to the internet, right? And you hear 50 different articles. You don't know who's writing them. Was that person in the business for a day? Was that person in the business for 20 years and knows their stuff? You don't know until Doctor Google, right? So our goal is to give you real world experience with the clients and the families that we work with, and help you understand those solutions that may work for you.
00;01;14;10 - 00;01;32;25
Unknown
One of the things I always talk about on here is we love educating families. We work with all sorts of great different people from across a board of folks who are high net worth and folks who maybe don't have that same type of net worth. All I want to say to you is, if you're somebody and something comes out in this podcast or any podcast that you watch, please reach out to us.
00;01;32;25 - 00;01;57;03
Unknown
We're happy to answer questions. We're happy to give you that education. Okay, so today I'm excited. Today's topic ABCs of long term care. Long term care is a really unique subject because what it used to look like in may be the 80s and 90s, and even early 2000 is a lot different of what it looks like today. So, I want to introduce my guest, Charlie Dillon.
00;01;57;03 - 00;02;15;07
Unknown
He's one of our great advisors here in Michigan. And, Charlie's got some really good stuff on long term care. Charlie. What? I always like to start with, number one, thank you for thinking around here. I'm really excited to be here. Awesome. So one of the things that I always like to start with is, you know, helping people understand a little bit about you, your walk in this industry.
00;02;15;07 - 00;02;39;12
Unknown
Right. Give me a little bit about, you know, why you do what you do, why you love your job, and kind of like, what got you into financial planning. Well, I was really, my grandpa, my poppy. My first introduction to finance was when I came home from school on my 10th birthday. He was waiting in my kitchen for me, and before I could even run up and give him a hug, he, stopped me in my tracks and said, I got your birthday present for you.
00;02;39;12 - 00;02;55;05
Unknown
I got you $100. And I was ecstatic, right? I thought I was the richest kid on the block. I was going to buy all the toys, squirt guns, and go to the movies all summer. But, then I asked him where it was, and he brought me over to the computer screen. Right. And I was like, what? What is this?
00;02;55;08 - 00;03;10;06
Unknown
Yeah. About your $50 of Microsoft stock and $50 of Dell stock. Well, I immediately was deflated as a ten year old. I don't know what this is. Right. What to do with it? I don't know how to spend this money. Right. You're ready to go to the swim club? Yeah, I'm ready to be run on the run in the neighborhood that summer.
00;03;10;06 - 00;03;29;26
Unknown
Right. But, I was about to walk away, and he said, no, just wait a minute, because he clearly tell I was deflated. Yeah. And we saw my $100 turn into $100 and a couple cents. I don't know what. That just happens. I asked him what what just happened? How did I $100 go? That's going to turn into like $100.50.
00;03;29;28 - 00;03;46;17
Unknown
Know your money just made money for you. I mean, that blew my ten year old brain, right? I didn't have to shovel the driveway. I didn't have to clean up my toys or my room. I just got rid of my money. Could make money for me. What a what a brand new concept. So I came infatuated with my stocks.
00;03;46;17 - 00;04;07;11
Unknown
I ran home from school every day, log on to my my brokerage account at ten years old and see how they were doing. And, you know, a month would go by, I'd pay down ten, $15. And I called my Poppy, I'm down ten, $15. Should I sell? Should I say my money disappeared? I don't know, hold on to it for a little longer.
00;04;07;11 - 00;04;24;17
Unknown
Right. A month is a long time to a ten year, right? Yeah, absolutely. That's right. Then a couple months later, they'd be up $20. Oh, I made $20, poppy. Should I sell them? Should I sell them now? I'll just hold on to them. And then, but just like everyone else out there, it's not like I've always been perfect financially, right?
00;04;24;19 - 00;04;42;02
Unknown
You know, we've all made some financial decisions. So some of the best lessons through those mistakes. Well, this could have been the one of the greatest investments I ever made. But when I was 14, 15 years old, I sold those stocks so I could buy a girl. I had a crush on a necklace for Valentine's Day. You learned the hard way.
00;04;42;03 - 00;05;05;10
Unknown
Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. And we were still together, right? Fantastic investment. Right? We're not so right. Amen. So your stories is one of those stories where it's like, hey, listen, it was just kind of like, you know, grandpa introduces you. Yeah, you kind of are. Your mind's blown and you kind of fall in love with this thing. And then here you are as a man, right?
00;05;05;13 - 00;05;23;00
Unknown
Oh, yeah. 30 years later. And it's what you do with your life right now. That's all I talk about. Almost an amen. So I know you brought some really good stuff on long term care. Yeah. And we call it the ABCs of long term care. And there's kind of three subjects that you're going to go into. Right.
00;05;23;02 - 00;05;41;02
Unknown
And, and the first subject is kind of that a, hey, traditional long term care. Right. The pros and cons, what that looks like. And I know you have some great case studies and families that you've worked with. B, is more in that concept of, hey, what alternatives do I have to traditional long term care, right. And I know we spend a lot of time in that space.
00;05;41;04 - 00;06;00;10
Unknown
Yes. Hey is it is it going to be an annuity product. Is it going to be an insurance product. Is it going to be like the Medicare Medicaid space. Right. And then see those folks out there who are self funders, right. So long term care a lot to unpack. Our goal is to give you the the meat and potatoes.
00;06;00;12 - 00;06;21;15
Unknown
But let's kind of start with, you know, wherever you'd like to start, Charlie, what's kind of the first area you think is important to uncover? Oh, I think the number one area, number one point we can get across to start is that 60 people over 65, 70% of all those people are going to need some form of long term care at some point in their life.
00;06;21;17 - 00;06;43;03
Unknown
Whether it be, you know, for just a couple months or maybe it's a couple of years, but 70% of all people out there are going to need it. And it's the number one retirement risk that goes unplanned for we always talk about our portfolio values and how we're generating income and taxes, but no one's ever really focusing on what is this, you know, expense that might happen.
00;06;43;03 - 00;07;04;07
Unknown
That right. Could it couldn't happen. It's not a certainty. And no one ever talks about it because it's just not a fun thing to talk about. It reminds me of taxes, you know, like, it's like the two kind of conversations that we really have to talk about. And we have to kind of, I don't want to say pride, but pride out of folks is, hey, we got to talk about taxes because they're confusing.
00;07;04;09 - 00;07;26;06
Unknown
Nobody likes to talk about them more, pointing to long term care. Now we're having more of a morbid conversation right where we're now. We're talking about people passing, people being in homes. Not a fun conversation, but an important one. Yeah, right. It's that that uncomfortable conversation where it's important to have it ahead of time. It's extremely important to have because, not only is it a financial burden, right.
00;07;26;06 - 00;07;44;17
Unknown
I mean, you have to think about it when there's a long term care need. And if I have a spouse, that's on top of all our regular expenses, right? If my spouse needs a nurse to come to the home a couple days a week, or heck, even be put into a facility, God forbid, but that that's an additional on top of everything.
00;07;44;17 - 00;08;05;09
Unknown
And now your expenses or the income your retirement portfolio has to generate is doubled or sometimes even tripled. And it's a crazy story. I just had this happen not too long ago, but I heard a story about, a client. A client had a mother go into a home, and the mom had a dog, and they charged her.
00;08;05;10 - 00;08;25;15
Unknown
No exaggeration. They charged her $750 a month to walk the dog, you know, so you get into these nickel and dime situations like, whoa, wait a minute. I didn't account for 750 a month to have my dog walked, right? And that's just a tip of the iceberg. Oh my gosh. So let's start with kind of a what's your take on traditional long term care.
00;08;25;17 - 00;08;42;12
Unknown
The good and the bad. What's your take on kind of the A right. We got a B and C a traditional long term care. What's the pros. What's the concept. You see it. So the pros of traditional long term care is that you're really getting out ahead of it. You're able to kind of dictate what you want to happen.
00;08;42;12 - 00;09;02;29
Unknown
If that need were to ever arise and you're giving yourself more options, right? You're really allowed to then dictate what we want to do or what we want this to look like for us. Do we want the in-home care or do we want to go into a facility? Do I want, hey, if I never need the long term care, do I want this money to be returned to my loved ones in the form of a death benefit?
00;09;03;00 - 00;09;25;00
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, that's that's the benefit of the traditional way of planning a proactive, proactive. Absolutely. And then what do you think is the biggest con of traditional long term care? The biggest con of traditional long term care is the details, all the specifics dealing with the insurance company saying, right, you know, they're not fun places to deal with.
00;09;25;02 - 00;09;40;15
Unknown
And call. They use a lot of jargon. Yeah. And you know, when, when you say that again, like, I'm always thinking of, like, you know, a specific example and always hits me right in the head. Just had a client go through the process. Mom ends up in a home. Dad's not in a great place, but mom ends up in a home.
00;09;40;15 - 00;09;58;10
Unknown
Right? And it took them almost eight months, eight months to get the long term. Care to say yes? We're ready to pay for it. Eight months. Eight months, which is a very long time, is very long. It's a very long time. There's a trust involved, there's a bunch of layers, blah, blah, blah. What do you think is kind of a normal time frame?
00;09;58;10 - 00;10;13;11
Unknown
At least in your experience, somebody ends up in a home, they reach out, they turn on their long term care policy. What's the normal time frame that you've seen where people are actually starting to get the benefit, and that the insurance company is doing what they said they were going to do? I'd say 3 to 5 months. Okay.
00;10;13;11 - 00;10;32;25
Unknown
I'm there. Okay. If you look at these policies, they'll have what's called an elimination period, right. And that's really because Medicare and Medicaid. But Medicare in this instance will pay for 60 days of your hospital stay. Right. But after that, now you're on co-insurance to day 90. And then after day 90, you're fully on your own. Right.
00;10;32;25 - 00;10;57;27
Unknown
And you need to fund that either out of pocket or the insurance company needs to step in. Right. And and one of the things that I think of cons like the old school policies too, like, you know, we always heard the cheesy line, right? If you don't use it, you lose it, you'll lose it. Right? And really that was referring to, you know, some of these, these early, policies where, where people are basically get them, they pass away, but they didn't end up in a home.
00;10;57;27 - 00;11;13;09
Unknown
And then the company just keeps the premium or the money they put into it. Right? Traditional straight, long term care. And that's what you're talking about in the details. That's what I'm talking about in the details, because there's not just straight long term care. I mean, we can wrap this in with a life insurance return a premium or use a for state funding.
00;11;13;10 - 00;11;35;25
Unknown
Right. There's many different ways to go about it. It's not just that anymore. Yeah. And especially with those older policies, they really fell out of favor, favor, because a lot of people in the past, in the 90s, early 2000, they got these policies. But life expectancy wasn't where it's at today. And the longer we live, the more likely we are to require some form of long term care.
00;11;35;25 - 00;11;56;09
Unknown
Absolutely. And so they had to renegotiate, the contract on these deals that they made. Yeah. And these people that had these straight long term care policies from days past didn't get what they were promised if they did need it or they passed away. And. Right. And, you know, that's a phenomenal point, Charlie and I and I know you've had a ton of experience with this, with with the families you've worked with.
00;11;56;12 - 00;12;18;16
Unknown
I know we all have, you know, personal stories as well, you know, good, bad, indifferent. Yeah. But if you're somebody listening and you do have a long term care policy and you're wondering, hey, what are the details? Right? Hey, what what are the details of my policy? Am I this person where if I pass away, or I don't end up in a home, the company keeps the money we've given them, right?
00;12;18;16 - 00;12;37;14
Unknown
Because it's significant money. We're talking a lot of these policies. 50, $100,000, right? Hey, I passed away. I don't go to a home. Who gets the money? Is it my beneficiaries in my family, right. My spouse, my kids, whatever that looks like? Or does the company keep it? That's important information for you to understand. It's a simple question.
00;12;37;14 - 00;12;52;22
Unknown
It's a simple review of a statement for us. You know, we we look at these statements, you know, we can pick these things apart. We've been looking at them a long time. So if that's you out there and you're not sure and you do have concerns, please do reach out to us, engage with us, send us, drop us a line, make a comment.
00;12;52;22 - 00;13;10;18
Unknown
Send us a message on a social channel. Feel free to email. Charlie is a resource to you too. We can get you Charlie's email and he can actually answer any questions and kind of give you an audit. Yeah, yeah. So, now kind of back to the traditional piece, we kind of unwrap that we get to be and this is where I think the most meat and potatoes are.
00;13;10;18 - 00;13;39;12
Unknown
Right. So I know you had kind of like a client case specific to like the annuity insurance. Right. Medicaid space. Yeah. I think that's a good place to start on, on quote unquote be of long term care. So this client, she, she wanted long term care and she's single, you know, in her early mid 70s. And she was really looking for a long term care policy because she doesn't want to have to be a burden on, anyone else that she knows.
00;13;39;12 - 00;13;53;11
Unknown
I mean, she still has family and loved ones, but she has a niece and she's very close with. And the last thing she would want to be is a burden on her, right? Yeah. We always talk about the financial burden. And if I can just take a moment to actually kind of deviate. But we always talk about the financial burden.
00;13;53;11 - 00;14;13;22
Unknown
Yeah. Of yeah, long term care. But it's also such a physical and emotional burden on your loved ones. Just the help that they have to provide. And, you know, there's no way of getting around that emotional burden, but. Right. I want to alleviate the other parts. And that's what she was trying to do. Yeah. And so she we applied for some long term care insurance.
00;14;13;24 - 00;14;32;12
Unknown
This was going to be one of those return of premium policies. Okay. Where she was going to get the money back, but she was denied. She, her underwriting came back because you have to get. Yeah. Health underwriting is like a life insurance like life insurance. Yeah. And so she was she got denied for the silliest little thing.
00;14;32;14 - 00;14;51;04
Unknown
She ran her mid-sixties. She was experiencing vertigo. So she goes to one doctor and they give her a treatment. Wasn't really working. She goes to another doctor, said that's not the treatment I would do. Here's a new one. And then it completely cured her. But she got denied because she never completed the treatment from that. Yeah, and I've seen that before too.
00;14;51;04 - 00;15;08;26
Unknown
Right. So we had to get creative. And what we found was an annuity instead. Okay. Which, offered her. Hey, we put in X amount of dollars, so just throw out a random number 150,000. And, you know, she never uses it or needs it later in life or to help fund her retirement expenses day to day. She can use it.
00;15;08;28 - 00;15;23;28
Unknown
But if she ever needs it for long term care, they're going to double her money, right? And then she gets to use that for long term care. Got it. Okay. So the the double feature double or feature. And really what you're talking about is again there's a bunch of different annuities out there. They're not not all created equal.
00;15;23;28 - 00;15;45;08
Unknown
No. You know you got variable annuities. You got fixed annuities. You got deferred annuities or spears, single premium income annuities. And then you have fixed indexed annuities. Now I think what you're referring to would be a fixed indexed annuity with a long term care rider. Exactly. Okay. And what and one of the things just so everybody knows kind of set the stage.
00;15;45;11 - 00;16;01;06
Unknown
I look at, you know, I'm a professional, I do this I don't expect everybody to have the same education that Charlie is going to have or that I'm going to have, or some of these other great advisors we have, here with the financial group. But you got to understand something in a conceptual concept where there's good and bad of everything.
00;16;01;12 - 00;16;26;07
Unknown
Right there is good and bad of everything. There's, hey, would I compare Amazon stock to some Greek shipping company that doesn't have a website that's a penny stock listed, right? Probably not in the same court. Right? No. And my point to that is there's good stocks and there's bad stocks. There's good annuities and there's bad annuities. And a common mistake people make is they try to use something like apple to orange.
00;16;26;07 - 00;16;50;21
Unknown
And my example is that if you have this type of a product where you set up a fixed index annuity as a long term care rider, you've set it up for a very specific job. Yes, I need you to do this job. It's not going to. We're not looking for 20% a year. No, we are looking for it to check a box, whether it is a financial mathematical conversation and or an emotional right, giving peace of mind, giving that person that peace.
00;16;50;21 - 00;17;03;23
Unknown
You know what? I'm not going to be a burden on my kids, right? Exactly. And so I think that's a great, a great, example because a lot of people don't even know. And then you say the word rider and they don't know what that means, you know. So, you know, I know a lot of people are always like, well, what's it cost?
00;17;03;23 - 00;17;19;12
Unknown
What's cost, what's cost, what's kind of a range? And I know this is a tough question because it depends on the carrier. Right. There's there's thousands of companies. And that's another reason you need to have an expert who knows. And an independent fiduciary. Yes. Someone who's bound by just a small list. Yes. Of things that they can. Yeah.
00;17;19;13 - 00;17;38;13
Unknown
What's kind of the costs. You see though, these, these long term care riders or long term care riders, they can be anywhere from a, you know, I'd say point 8% to 2.5%. Right. Two and a half to be very high. Right. But I think I've run into it once or twice. Right? Right. No. Anywhere between there I see one and one and a half is most common.
00;17;38;13 - 00;17;56;27
Unknown
Okay. And again, how that works, folks, is and I'm just going to make it really easy. You put $100,000 in the account rather than you having to scratch $100,000, check and cross your fingers that you end up in a home care facility. This product is going to have a return. Yep. It's going to be usually it's similar or an alternative to a bond, right.
00;17;56;27 - 00;18;14;29
Unknown
So it's a safer product whether there's no risk or there's a little bit. But really the only risk you take on is that fee you pay a year. So I put 100 grand in there, and I got a 1% fee. Okay. This doubler feature, for example, that you referred to, if you end up in a home, is going to cost me a thousand bucks, right?
00;18;15;02 - 00;18;30;25
Unknown
Yeah, 10,000 bucks. And if you need to, just going up. Right. Like so. Yeah. My whole point is, is whatever the number, if you got a million in there and you're paying 1%, you're paying ten grand a year. If you have 100,000 in there, you're. Yeah, paying a thousand. So okay, I just know people think, oh of course a lot.
00;18;30;25 - 00;18;50;10
Unknown
Okay. So that's one good option. And I've used that before. What's another insurance product that you would consider? Well, I would say return a premium. This is what I've been finding as the most popular version of long term care planning nowadays, because it takes what we were talking about earlier, where the insurance company just gets to keep, your money.
00;18;50;10 - 00;19;08;27
Unknown
If you never spent it, use it or lose it kind of thing. Yeah. And it makes it so it it returns to the family, you know, it. So what happens is we put in either, one spouse or both. But we put it in 100 hundred and $50,000 and it will generate, you know, this would be more of a supplemental.
00;19;08;28 - 00;19;34;19
Unknown
This isn't going to replace the cost of care, okay? But it's going to lessen the burden. Financial burden or, risk to the portfolio. Right. And so we put that $150,000 in there. Each person gets about $4,000 a month that they can use for long term care expenses, $750 of it. They get to spend however they want. So if they need to pay the kid down the street to cut the grass, take out the trash for a couple times a week or whatever, they can do that.
00;19;34;26 - 00;19;54;17
Unknown
Buy groceries. But then if they never use it or they don't spend it down entirely, okay, then the remaining value is returned to the family. Got it? And the best part is, let's say we do spend it down and there is no more death benefit. Well, now we got the insurance company right where we want them, right? Because they are going to pay our way for another 3 or 4 years, right?
00;19;54;17 - 00;20;11;00
Unknown
As long as we need it. So. Right. That's, that's seems to be the most popular way. And that's a great option. And to your point, I've seen some great success with families. And then again, if you're somebody out here is like, wait a minute, I've never heard about a rider. I've never heard about a fixed indexed annuity, I've never heard about this return a premium policy.
00;20;11;00 - 00;20;32;08
Unknown
And I know we've got one more here in the alternatives to hit. But if this is something that you're, you're questioning yourself about usually how that process works. And I've seen Charlie go through it 100 times is I, he's going to run what's called an illustration. He's going to reach out to these carriers. You know, Charlie is I can't remember what, 50 plus different carriers.
00;20;32;08 - 00;21;01;07
Unknown
You're you're so 50 plus different companies. You know, Charlie is licensed with, which is kind of getting back to that whole independent fiduciary piece. You know, he and us and our organization is not captive to one company, which is important to us. And the simple reason it's important to us is, is, hey, if I got this company and they're really good at growing money, they're probably not going to be great at preserving money or having some of these more complex long term care needs, income needs.
00;21;01;09 - 00;21;17;13
Unknown
So you got to have different balls in the court to say, hey, who's the best in this space? Who's the best in this space? But if you're curious about, hey, what would that look like for me? You know, everybody's different, right? It might not cost you $150,000. It might cost you 50,000. It might cost you a thousand a year.
00;21;17;18 - 00;21;34;12
Unknown
And you've got to do your due diligence. So if this is something you're like, you know what? And most of the time, what I've identified is the people who have the concern with long term care are the people who go through with their parents. Exactly. They've seen it. They've experienced it firsthand. Yes. They know what it takes and how difficult it can be.
00;21;34;14 - 00;21;50;00
Unknown
Right. And they just like, you know, what you're saying earlier, they don't want to do that to their kids or their loved ones. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's really tough, though, to get people that haven't seen it to kind of wake up and, you know, realize, hey, this is something that I need to think about, like you're saying about taxes.
00;21;50;00 - 00;22;10;18
Unknown
Yeah. It's not a fun thing to think about. Right. Well, how am I going to be living when I'm not really living, right? Yeah. Right. Right. And now let's kind of hit the last one in these alternatives. So Medicaid Medicare, Medicaid, Medicare space. What you know, what kind of information education can you, provide the listeners and audience.
00;22;10;25 - 00;22;32;07
Unknown
So Medicaid is probably our least favorite way to do long term care planning, because it's a government program that we lose control. We lose control over choice of care providers and facility. Can I stay in my home? Probably not. You're probably going to have to go to a government funded facility. It's just not the optimal way.
00;22;32;09 - 00;22;52;03
Unknown
Right? Rates can create some problems. But if we need to use that kind of planning. Right, what we need to look at now is we actually need to get into the estate planning conversation. Right? It's funny. Yes. It requires so many different avenues to look at. Talk to your point about that planning and using a holistic fiduciary financial planner.
00;22;52;05 - 00;23;14;14
Unknown
But the Medicare, it's different that Medicaid is different from Medicare, right. Again, Medicare will pay your way for 60 days. Then you start copays. And then if you really need it, Medicaid will step in. Okay. And the problem is our balance sheet has to be zero for Medicaid to really help us out. Okay. No investments, no investments.
00;23;14;14 - 00;23;33;21
Unknown
And that's the problem because most people's investments are in their retirement accounts. Yeah. And that's really tough to get those into a trust. Right. Their homes are in their name. Not necessarily in the trust names. Or they did the lady bird deed. Yeah. So now we got to go back and we got to now formulate a trust.
00;23;33;23 - 00;23;48;09
Unknown
So it's really just what what kind of planning do we need if it's going to be Medicaid? That's okay. I've seen success stories with it. Again, it's our least favorite way of doing it. But right there it can be done. Well, yeah. It's just we got to get out of here. And what's the look back on that?
00;23;48;09 - 00;24;05;17
Unknown
Because I know people always ask me that. Hey, what's the what's the look back when you get into those Medicare Medicaid conversations? I believe three years. Yeah. That's that's that's what I understood, too. It's like, so they're going to go back three years. So like to your point, because what people were doing is they say, oh, hey, I know I'm going to have this happen to my parents.
00;24;05;17 - 00;24;25;07
Unknown
So they drain all the accounts and they're trying to, quote unquote, hide the money. Yeah, but they didn't do it early enough. So I planning so important. Right. Be proactive. Right. So okay. That's a good one. All right. Now now the last one to your point. So we got you know when we have the ABCs of long term care we have a you know using a traditional long term care policy.
00;24;25;08 - 00;24;50;03
Unknown
B we get into those alternative options which would be like, you know, using insurance annuities or Medicaid Medicare. Then we have C, which is self-funding it, which seems pretty self-explanatory. What are some of the variables you've kind of identified with your clients? Well, it's market risk taxes just like normal retirement expenses. Yeah. But again, it's do we have this built into our financial plan?
00;24;50;04 - 00;25;16;04
Unknown
Right. We know how our financial plan is going to behave if this expense arises around age 80, 85, when that's when it's most common. We have to know family history. Are there conditions that seem to be inherited? When did that happen to our family members? Right. Get that kind of timeline. But it really just requires a really robust portfolio that not many people have.
00;25;16;07 - 00;25;44;21
Unknown
Yeah. And here's the funny thing. The people that I work with that can self-fund most often go for a supplemental insurance policy. Interesting. Very interesting. Like why do you think that is? Well, because they can identify the risk they they haven't gotten to that point of being able to self-fund by, you know, throw caution to the wind and not being diligent about what risks they're taking, how their investments are performing, the draw on the their portfolio.
00;25;44;21 - 00;26;00;20
Unknown
They want to get out ahead of it. Yeah, they've been proactive and they can see the benefit of saying, hey, let's just park a couple of these dollars here that we're probably not going to use anyway. And if we need them, great, great. And if we don't need them, we're all set. Yeah, we're all set and still going to the family.
00;26;00;20 - 00;26;16;19
Unknown
So going to the trust. So going we want it to go exactly. Yeah that's a great point. And you know because a lot of times people just come with like these general general numbers. Oh you need $1 million to be self self-sufficient. It's all based on how much they spend a month. Right. And a thousand other variables. Yeah.
00;26;16;22 - 00;26;35;04
Unknown
That's the I love that here on that. It's just. Oh, yeah. I need $1 million, I need that I was reading online, I need this, I need to make that. Now. You don't necessarily. Yeah. What is you. As I always tell everyone, those articles you'll find online, whether it be about long term care or retirement planning, estate planning.
00;26;35;06 - 00;26;59;20
Unknown
It's made for the average American. I have yet to meet this average American. Everyone is different, right? That is on the top of the bell curve, but no one really is that person, right? Taking all of our variables and trying to shove them into one person, that doesn't work. I love that and thank you, Charlie. And again, on that point, if you're somebody out there and you're thinking, hey, I feel like I'm well-off, I live within my means, I live within my budget.
00;26;59;23 - 00;27;22;22
Unknown
If you're somebody who's like, hey, am I? Should I be self-funded, right? Am I am I okay to be in that space? Am I one of these people who should be looking at these alternatives? Or, hey, I'm looking at traditional long term care or I already have a policy. Any one of those courts, again, I can't I can't put enough emphasis on it, whether it's a second opinion or you just need general education, you know, Charlie is an absolute expert in this space.
00;27;22;24 - 00;27;44;09
Unknown
And again, I appreciate you kind of going through this because there's a lot of people out here of a lot of questions about this stuff and kind of tying it into that real world experience with people is really important. Right. And that's kind of the whole education pace. But I can't I can't put enough emphasis if that's you out there and you're thinking and writing down questions or you're, oh, I need to look this up, you could probably spend ten days doing this stuff.
00;27;44;09 - 00;27;57;12
Unknown
You spend 15 minutes on a phone call with Charlie or one of our great team members. We're going to educate the heck out of you. We're going to get you the information you need. So again, I can't encourage you enough to reach out. We're happy to do it. Doesn't cost you a nickel. But we love doing this stuff.
00;27;57;12 - 00;28;14;16
Unknown
And I know you know, Charlie, when we were talking about doing the podcast, was just like, hey, man, I this is one that I think we need to be talking about more. I think it's not talked about enough. Yeah. I mean, a personal experience with, with the my family and with my clients, I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly out there.
00;28;14;16 - 00;28;34;12
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. It's really important to just get out, make sure you have a plan in place, figure out which option you need. Yeah. But again, to your point, work with a professional. This is so detailed oriented type of planning. And we really got to drill down on. Yeah, so many other factors. It's not just in a silo by itself.
00;28;34;12 - 00;28;52;10
Unknown
I love that it's needs to be holistically incorporated with your retirement plan. Absolutely. And that's a great takeaway. You know, you're not siloing one piece of your plan, right? You have this income plan. You have this investment plan. You have a tax plan. You have a legacy plan. Then you start getting into this other stuff. Long term care insurance planning.
00;28;52;10 - 00;29;10;14
Unknown
Hey, am I in my checking the box? So I think one of the key takeaways, if I had to kind of highlight it and just add if I'm missing anything but the key takeaways I see is number one, educate yourself on what your situation looks like. The primary way to do that is have an income plan. Yeah. How much am I going to be spending when I'm this age?
00;29;10;14 - 00;29;29;03
Unknown
How much is my hypothetical net worth? Right. Be conservative in that planning piece. Number two, once you understand your income needs, then you can start looking at hey, am I am I in the right investment? Right? Do I have the appropriate risk to safety, ratio? Then you start getting into those details of, hey, how much do I want to leave my family?
00;29;29;05 - 00;29;50;28
Unknown
Right? But when it comes to long term care and that's kind of that fourth piece that we're getting to when it comes to long term care. Hey, is a traditional policy good for you? Do you have a good one? Is that the path you should be going on? Should you be looking at these alternatives? Is there an insurance policy because you have some form of a medical need where you're not going to be able to get that insurance or long term care?
00;29;50;29 - 00;30;08;24
Unknown
So now we have to look at a fixed index annuity or an annuity product with a rider. Right. Yeah. And then you get into the Medicare stuff, right. Medicaid, understanding of how those qualifications work again. You know, if you do or don't check those boxes, then last, are you somebody who can be self-funded? That sound about right?
00;30;08;25 - 00;30;28;27
Unknown
That's nailed it. Right. Okay. Anything else you would want to add that best practice. You know, something that you know, maybe is is something that people don't think about or just something you want to reiterate? You know, just something that I want to reiterate is that emotional burden aspect. And I'll leave you with a kind of a funny story from one of my clients.
00;30;29;00 - 00;30;47;23
Unknown
He is single guy. It's got three daughters and one's a physician's assistant. He's got two, and the other two are registered nurses. And we're doing long term care planning for him. And this guy loves his daughters. They get together all the time. So he was telling them about financial planning that we're doing long term care planning.
00;30;47;25 - 00;31;05;22
Unknown
And they said, what are you doing that for? We're going to take care of it when you're qualified to take area. And they were so upset they thought it was a scam because they had old stories. Yeah. And so we had to sit down with them. I was walking them through all the details and how it worked and why it's different from what they're familiar with.
00;31;05;24 - 00;31;23;15
Unknown
And they were kind of getting it, but they were still not totally on board. And he and they were talking to me and saying, oh, we don't like this. We don't like this is a girl. Stop. You don't get it, I need this, I want this because I don't want your last memory of me to be you giving me a sponge bath.
00;31;23;15 - 00;31;44;23
Unknown
Wow. Why are you taking care of me? I want you to remember all the fun times we had together. Many road trips that we. We're going to take in the future. Any vacations that we do, dinners that we have. Not the stuff I don't want you to be involved with. Yeah, and, wow, that's powerful. And there they said, oh, we didn't understand it through that lens, dad.
00;31;44;26 - 00;32;01;12
Unknown
Go right ahead. Yeah. So it wasn't really me who did anything there. Yeah. He just he just brought the mirror. Yeah. And said, this is what you have to see. You have to see it through my lens. Exactly. Yeah. And that's always an important component of, you know, us as advisors, you know, especially new advisors I've identified.
00;32;01;12 - 00;32;19;06
Unknown
It's always about the, like, the dollar. It's about the investment. It's about the money. And then as you do this for long enough, you start realizing the the, you know, the emotional and the psychological elements that fall into these conversations so that that's a that's an amazing point. And again, I'm sure that was very powerful. And, especially for the girls, that was powerful for girls.
00;32;19;06 - 00;32;36;16
Unknown
It was powerful for me. Yeah. I, I mean, I started looking at it kind of through that lens, but that really drove that point home to me. Yeah. Of how, emotional it can be. I mean, I've seen it personally in my family. I was just, a couple of years later. Yeah. But, it really is an emotional burden.
00;32;36;16 - 00;32;54;24
Unknown
And so alleviate as much as you can. You'll never be able to totally fix that emotional part of it. Right? But handle the stuff. Control your controllables. Yes. And be proactive about it, I love that. Well, that's some great stuff, Charlie. Thank you. Thank you for having joining me today. And a lot of fun. Always, always, always good stuff out of you.
00;32;54;24 - 00;33;10;09
Unknown
And I appreciate it. I know you got a great heart for this business, and, you do do great by your clients. So thank you for just kind of helping educate the population out there. You know, one last thing I would say is just, you know, if this is something that's bringing home to you again, I can't say it enough.
00;33;10;17 - 00;33;25;20
Unknown
We're here to support you. You know, you can drop us a comment. Hey, we got a question, right? Whether it's a social media channel or you send us in an email to, Focus Financial Group here. Charlie, you can reach out to Charlie directly. Really easy to get in touch, Charlie. Directly, if you'd like to talk to him.
00;33;25;22 - 00;33;42;22
Unknown
True expert in this subject. So, number one, I hope, everybody learned something new today. Be if you're walking out of this podcast and you have more questions, if you have a current policy, like I said earlier, do not hesitate to reach out. We we do reviews and audits of these plans. We analyze people's plans and just help educate them.
00;33;42;24 - 00;33;58;20
Unknown
That's what we're in the business of doing is education. So we love doing these podcasts. So I hope you're enjoying it. I hope you learned something new today. Make sure you follow us. Make sure you subscribe to these, get engaged in this community. We have a phenomenal community that we've been building. We've been getting a ton of great feedback.
00;33;58;20 - 00;34;16;20
Unknown
We're getting a ton of great people asking questions and engaging with us. Having having phone calls and just connecting with people through this podcast has been a ton of fun for, for me, and the other advisors that that are involved in this. So real world retirement, we're taking those real world stories, bringing them to you and trying to break them down and educate.
00;34;16;26 - 00;34;38;09
Unknown
I hope you enjoyed this session today. Please make sure you follow, subscribe, get involved in this community and we'll see you in the next podcast. Thank you so much. And again, I'm your host, Alexandra Bushman. And Charlie Dylan, thank you for joining us again, Alex. It was a lot of fun. Thanks, buddy.
00;34;38;11 - 00;34;44;09
Unknown
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