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Cinema Scope with Andy Nelson takes you on a captivating journey through the ever-evolving landscape of film. Moreover, it offers a unique and engaging perspective on the art of cinema.
Welcome to Cinemascope from True Story FM, where we illuminate the gritty, pulsating realms of cinema's most captivating subgenres. I'm Andy Nelson, your guide on this quest to uncover raw truths behind the lenses. Today, we're diving into the intense world of Brazilian favela films, a subgenre that has garnered international attention for its unflinching portrayal of life in Brazil's sprawling slums. With a focus on crime, violence, and the struggle for survival, the favela films that reach global audiences paint a vivid picture of the harsh realities faced by those on the margins. As we explore this subgenre, we'll also uncover the multifaceted nature of favela films within Brazil, where a wider range of stories and styles often remain unexplored internationally.
Andy:Joining me today, I have Luisa Luvsvargi. Luisa is a journalist, professor, and researcher at the postgraduate program in multimedia of the State University of Campinas, Brazil, a member of the Genesinae Group, a study group on cinematographic and audiovisual genres, the former director of Abra cine, the Brazilian Association of Film Critics, and a member of the Alveras feminist collective of film critics. Luisa, welcome to the show.
Luiza:Hi, Andy. It's my honor to be here. Thanks for the invitation.
Andy:I'm thrilled to have this conversation with you about these films. So, actually, before you and I started recording, you had mentioned that you consider favela films to be more of a theme rather than a single subgenre with musical dramas and crime dramas being 2 distinct types. That's a very fascinating point. Most notably, because outside of Brazil or I I suppose I should only be be speaking specifically to here in the US, many of those musical dramas don't get released here. In fact, for this episode, we had to largely limit our conversation to crime dramas because those are the ones that largely get US distribution and, hence, are the ones that I could access.
Andy:For this show, we will be discussing 5 films in the main episode, Rio 40 Degrees from 1955, Ishote from 1980, City of God from 2002, Elite Squad from 2007, and Dry Ground Burning from 2023. And then in our extended conversation for members, we'll dive into 5 more films, Rio Northern Zone from 1957, Black Orpheus from 1959, which is actually the only musical drama in our lineup, City of men from 2008, Last Stop 174 from 2008 as well, and Elite Squad The Enemy Within from 2010. This lineup, while all great films, really does say a lot about what we get exposed to and in turn, how we see life in the Brazilian favelas. We get an impression of the crime, the violence, gang lords, drugs, the struggle to survive, but we rarely get a glimpse into these other facets of life there. So let's start here.
Andy:How does this limited international exposure to primarily crime focused favela films influence the understanding and perception of these communities?
Luiza:Well, for many Brazilians, these films harm the country's image. They are hated. So despite its international popularity, the first reception here was not good.
Andy:Interesting.
Luiza:And even the critics, the scholars, saying that there are favela films and classifying city of god as a gangster film. It's, kind of a downgrading of the discussion. Just to sell the international market just just to to market, for pure market. So city of god was released as against the film alongside gangs of New York by Martin's courses. And I remember that that time, Merellis, the Fernando Merellis, the director, said that he was honored by the comparison, but here, things were a little bit different in the beginning.
Luiza:The British researcher, I I don't know if you know him, Steve Niall, considers the gangster film to be a subgenre within high yield crime dramas. And he he classifies them as contemporary crimes. He created a category. And inside this category, we have gangster film. But most of these films, the most recent ones, I'm talking now about Brazilian films, criticize, yes, the condition which people live in the communities, even when they recognize the talent of a musician, an actor, a writer, because City of God was a book, a novel written by Paul Links.
Luiza:Right? A resident of the this kind of favelas. Even so, there are many foreigners understanding of Brazil They are much more affected by the way Brazil has been presented in the media and in the international cinema. Not only since Roma Biggs. No?
Luiza:Brazil is a a refuge. You know? A place to hide from the law. And and and it was not only, because of City of God or the favela films. You know?
Luiza:You have this in TV shows, American TV shows, lots of them. So, like, where are you going now? Brazil. Tornado. That's it.
Luiza:So it's poem. It's it's controversial, this reception.
Andy:Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely something that reinforces stereotypes. Right? I mean, it's it's it's what largely we think of when we when we hear of favelas, we just go to, oh, crime ridden, the gangsters are ruling it and all of that.
Andy:Or or or in the case of, the second elite squad film, the militia is ruling it. Right? Like, there's there's nothing that feels safe about any of that. And No. It's it's an interesting depiction.
Luiza:On other hand, Babenco's film, Pishoci, law of the weeks is the real title.
Andy:Right.
Luiza:Focuses on that street children who have fled the favelas and make a make a living in the streets, and end up getting involved with crimes, prostitution. One thing that greatly affected Pishotta's reception here, I don't know, about it was that Pishotta, the actor who played Pishotta, was killed by police officers.
Andy:Yeah. Right.
Luiza:After the end of the the filming, he he he could not, survive being an actor or something like that and was very bad for the communities.
Andy:Oh, it's tragic. Tragic. And I I think that's something we'll definitely talk about that when we start talking about, like, some of those elements that recur in these types of films, but I think that's something that we see in quite a number of these is that they're casting people from these areas, like, real real people. Like, they're not casting actors often. Right?
Andy:I mean, that seems to be kind of a trend in the films that we're looking at.
Luiza:But city of god was different. We can talk about this.
Andy:Yeah. And, like, I I think that's kind of one of the shifts that they've that we've seen over the course of this. Because city of god, the elite squad film, certainly, we start getting to a place where bringing actors in to perform the roles.
Luiza:Mhmm.
Andy:When we look at favela films, I mean, it is kind of this unique category in Brazilian cinema focusing on life in the favelas. And, again, whether it's a theme that we see in just kind of types of films or it is a subgenre, how do they differ from other subgenres, or genres? And and what kind of what makes them stand out as something that's distinct in cinema?
Luiza:Films about favela, don't form a single category in national cinema, in Brazilian cinema. Yeah. They came from 2 major genres in Brazilian cinema. The criminal, because we have criminals since the very beginning of the the the movies.
Andy:Sure.
Luiza:Very popular. And, yeah, always.
Andy:Yeah. Every around the world. That's that everyone loves crime stories. Yeah.
Luiza:I suppose. I suppose it is. Japan, United States. So
Andy:Yep.
Luiza:And so the criminals and the musicals. The latter with a lot of influence, the musicals here, with a lot of influence, from the I don't know the pronunciation, but it's the revue theater.
Andy:The revue? Yeah. Like a revue?
Luiza:Revue theater.
Andy:Yeah. Yeah.
Luiza:But also from hits, from the Brazilian popular music, Samba. And today, nowadays, rap and funk, which is very popular. Yeah. This, this musics, they generates movies, video clips, films, and helps, the the industry of music here, which is very strong, stronger than the the cinema industry, the film industry, Brazilian film industry.
Andy:I suppose there is this sense. And I think when from my perspective here, talking about Brazilian favela films and the idea that we have kind of categorized it as this subgenre, not just necessarily favela films from Brazil, but just kind of this Latin American these films that kind of depict this urban poverty in a lot of these third world countries as as I mean, I'm just speaking broadly. That's kind of something that has been created, I suppose, to show life in these other countries. But, again, it's it's very limiting on what we're actually getting to see. And I mean, you know, I grew up watching things, you know, sort of like Disney things, like in in like, Disney had made those, Walt Disney had made several films that depicted kind of Latin American life.
Andy:Right? He did a couple films in the forties and, with Donald Duck going down to to South America. And and you like, that's you saw, like, it was all about, like, the music, like, you're talking about. Like, that was a big part of those films is the Samba, and and you you get this sense of this this life down there. But I I feel like the studios have really latched onto this sense of of depicting kind of that poverty and just kind of the gritty urban life as the thing that they want to depict that has kind of created this subgenre that we're kind of getting.
Andy:And I suppose there is this view of it as social commentary, but it's also entertainment. And I think that's kind of the blend that we get here. And that, I think, to your point, likely is the frustrating element for people in Brazil seeing this thing that, okay, their social commentary can be good, but it you don't need to always be making entertainment out of it.
Luiza:Not all the time.
Andy:Yeah.
Luiza:And so the first films about favela, well, we have most popular most most known, well known, favela dos mails amoris, the favela of my loves, of my beloved ones, 1935. But they are just a little bit entertaining, a little bit weird.
Andy:Is that the one that you said has been lost in time as far as, like, the the film itself is no longer available. Right?
Luiza:Yeah.
Andy:Yeah. Yeah. That's, an unfortunate tragedy in the history of film is we've lost so many films that just aren't available at all anymore.
Luiza:And so since then, since these first ones, there has been no shortage of films with references to favelas, slums. And, according to a Brazilian researcher called Artura Autral, they are generally guided by romantic populists. You know? And so that's the main difference between these contemporary movies, these favelas. With, Rio 40 Degrees, we, we have a more realistic approach, you know, emergent, which would continue in real northern zone, both by, directed by Nelson Pereira dos Santos, who who take parts in cinema novel, and 5 times favela in this.
Luiza:These narratives are much more documentary, And it that they are strongly influenced by Italian new realists.
Andy:I I mean, I'm glad you brought that up. So because I definitely wanna get into the origins of these films. And those films both came out in the fifties. What was going on in Brazil at the time? Like, where as far as, like, where was the country socioeconomically that kind of influenced the development of this theme in Brazilian cinema?
Andy:Because this that hadn't been an the norm at the time in in Brazilian movies. Right? It was a little more Hollywood, the style of films in Brazil.
Luiza:Yeah. In the fifties.
Andy:You're right. Yeah.
Luiza:In the fifties, they start to to build Brasilia, the new capital.
Andy:Yeah. Which is more in the center of the country. Correct?
Luiza:And so, yeah, populism has much more to do with this. And, Rio forty degrees was something totally in a in a opposition to these feelings of that time, not the fifties. How was the slogan of the president? I can't I cannot remember. 5 years in 50.
Luiza:You know? What does it mean? We will be great, the greatest country of South America and blah blah blah. We are, develop the the economy, more industries. That's what that was the spirit from the government.
Luiza:But Rio Ford Degrees has nothing to do in common with this. And so you can imagine the critics love it, but the people, the public, not not this much. But okay. It was important for that moment.
Andy:Right. Right. And that kind of starts, this shift that you have towards cinema novo. Right? What can you describe what that is and and why film kind of shifted in that direction?
Luiza:Along the cinema novel movement, you have very different kinds of movies or films. But it's but cinema novel has privileged the the the backlands. People from the the the backlands, the northwest. Lauber was from Bahia.
Andy:That's, that's Lauber Rocha. You're talking about the director behind things like Black God, White Devil, right, who is a big part of the cinema novo movement?
Luiza:Yeah. And and at that time, the left wing movements, they are much more targeting this this population because they believe that the revolution that are very important also.
Andy:Was the political climate was it positive? Like, were were people feeling fairly positive about the direction that the country was moving at that time? I'm I'm I'm guessing that there was some internal conflict between the direction that the politicians wanted to move the country, but the way that the people felt like I'm not feeling that. I I'm not feeling like you're making any better anything better for my life. Is that kind of the the mood?
Luiza:The intellectual students, the intellectuals, critics, they loved the the movies. But Glover is not this popular. I don't know there in United States. You know, it's very difficult to to to watch the movies. Doesn't matter they they are not good or I I'm not talking about this.
Luiza:But great audiences, no. They don't have, but they are very respected internationally and here.
Andy:Interesting. So with these films, I mean, you know, the the focus of the film starting, like, in the fifties as they started kind of making some of these stories as Nelson, Pereira dos Santos was was kind of making these films. It definitely did kind of create this shift in the some of the some of the stories that were being told. How did these changes, manifest in terms of kind of the focus of the stories, the style they're being told in, the themes? We've already talked about pulling in some of the Italian neorealist style, very raw, real, gritty.
Andy:What else was coming out of these?
Luiza:Nelson was much more popular than Glauber. You know? I'm talking about the audiences. No. You understand.
Luiza:No. Real Fire degrees was the first of trilogy he was planning to to to produce. The second one was Rio Northern zone.
Andy:Yep. Yep.
Luiza:And the last one will be Rio South zone.
Andy:Oh, okay.
Luiza:Above the city, the elite, the city, the tourist city. But, Rio Northam zone was not well succeeded in the audiences, in the movie theaters, and then he never concluded Rio South zone.
Andy:Gotcha.
Luiza:But he made lots of, other kinds of movies, not only about Rio, about urban cities. He was very prolific as a as a a director, as a filmmaker. It's very important. But in a way or another, he founded a new way to to look at the city, the touristic city. No more postcard.
Luiza:Rio is not a postcard. He just problems. Come on. Let's take a look on this.
Andy:Right. See the real world. Right?
Luiza:The real world.
Andy:Well, I mean, I I think that's an interesting element. And as as we move into talking about, like, what are the distinct char characteristics that we see in these favela films? Like, what are the core components that they use to tell these stories? I suppose that's, you know, also part of it is, like, what is it about using the these components in telling these stories did they see as the the popular ones that they thought would draw the audiences in. Right?
Andy:Like, one of the one of the main things that I definitely notice in the early days, for sure, well, I I shouldn't necessarily just say that all the way up to dry ground burning. Is there casting nonprofessional actors to to play these roles? There are exceptions, the city of gods, city of men films, the, elite squad films. But a lot of the films that we, have in our discussion, they're nonprofessional actors who are playing these roles. That's that kind of taps into that neorealist element of them.
Andy:Right?
Luiza:Right. But they're different kind of productions and styles. Yeah. City of God, the casting, they are, in search of, different faces. Not faces from the TV shows, from the novellas, the soap operas, or from the movies.
Luiza:They are looking for this unknown faces. But they have the support of a group called Nasdo Morho. It will be something like, We From the Slums, a a theater group created in a favela called Vidigal. No? The favela Vidigal or Vidigal.
Luiza:They exist even today, and they they insult. That boys you see in the movie, they made exercises. So they made they are being prepared for this. They are not just, oh, hello. Come here.
Luiza:We have we are needing need an actor like you. Just like you. No. They were not. And and that was the idea, the dry ground burning.
Luiza:It's another thing. Well, the director came from not the favela, but a a suburban city, a very violent city called Saint Lungia, located in the surrounding area of Brasilia, the capital. And so, the favela, Solna Senci, in a free translation. Rising sun is the name of the favela, rising sun. Ad Angelikiros and Joanna Pimenta, you know, 2 directors, they are interest in, just showing them the reality.
Luiza:They they don't have a script. I don't know if you if you have noticed Yeah. Just some sketches or ideas. No. So let's start.
Luiza:And blah blah. Okay?
Andy:It's very different.
Luiza:And, all the time, they look for real people. And so, Leah, the main character is a woman knowing dragon burning. She was in prison. I I don't remember, but you have a a a specific name for this when you you go out for the prison, but you have to to respect some things.
Andy:Like you're on parole?
Luiza:Yeah. So she's a real one. She's a criminal. And and Leah will be Leah, I suppose, but Leah is a homosexual. Yep.
Luiza:Assuming homosexual.
Andy:Yeah. I mean, that's it's such an interesting example. We'll definitely talk a little bit more about, dry ground burning, when we get to our our list of films. But just looking at the kind of the broad picture of all these different things, I mean, we're definitely in the films, we're seeing a a realistic portrayal, I guess, we could say, of life in the favelas. You know, we're the the films definitely are focusing on social issues.
Andy:We're seeing the poverty. There's a lot of violence and gangs. And, from my perspective, I can't tell. Maybe you know more, but it looks like they're shooting on location in real favelas. Is that would you say that's accurate for for these?
Luiza:Yeah.
Andy:They're shooting on location? Yeah.
Luiza:Yeah. Yeah.
Andy:Let's jump back. I wanna go back to Rio 40 Degrees and talk a little bit about that. And that's 40 Degrees Celsius, which is about a 100 Degrees Fahrenheit so people can understand the what the title is referencing. We're following the oh, it's kind of a day in the life. The film follows this day.
Andy:We're following 5 kids who are selling peanuts. They live in the favelas. They're going down into Rio to try to sell peanuts and make some money because they wanna buy a soccer ball. And then we also subsequently end up following some of the people that they come into contact with. Right?
Andy:We're following a a woman who is pregnant with her boyfriend and trying to get him to marry her. There's, you know, a politician where we have a number of different people that we kind of track over the course of the film. And we over the course, but we see their struggles, their aspirations, and we're definitely getting a sense of the socio, social and economic disparities in the film as, you know, these kids are trying to sell their peanuts and they get knocked over or they get lost or they get taken by these other kids to sell them to so they can make money. It's an interesting story as we're following all of this. How does this film really kind of set the groundwork for these films?
Andy:And and in the scope of, Brazilian cinema, what is its significance?
Luiza:After Rio 40 degrees was impossible to show as not like, in the prior movies. So he definitely changed the way you see the people in the screen. I'm not talking about the the the the press, just the the danger because things getting getting worse and more worse with the the the organized crime, mobs. And so I don't know if you if you can classify as a mob in the way of things. No.
Luiza:But, now it's very different, but it changes the way you show that people in the screen. Definitely. You you have the old way. You have in some movies. But that's the the the most important thing.
Luiza:Pishoti. No. Pishoti was different. It it came much more from a fiction. And I suppose that Pichotti, Babinho, was much more interest in in talk about the childhood, the abandonment of the childhood in the streets than in the favelas.
Andy:Because when we definitely have the kids in Rio 40 Degrees, right, they're kind of the central characters that we're following, but they all have a home. They all live there. Yes. Right? So they're just and they're working.
Andy:They're right. They're young. They're working. They're gonna go out and stuff. One kid ends up getting killed over the course of the story, and it ends very like, a haunting shot as we see his mom.
Andy:Everyone's celebrating carnival, but his mom, we see her still just waiting for him to return, and it's just like a haunting way to end the film. But they have, you know, ostensibly happy lives. Right? They're just they're young and they're they're working. They're they're doing something to make some money so that they can buy a soccer ball.
Andy:So that it doesn't seem as necessarily as tragic yet. It's I mean, life is tough, but they're it's it's not it it's not riddled with crime, I guess. You know?
Luiza:No. They're doing their best.
Andy:And so that definitely fits kind of the Italian neorealist style as they were seeing this social realist story of the people and their working. And there is that critique also as we see the them trying to struggle. We see some of the richer people as they look down on them. We hear the people on the beach talking about these people. Like, there's interesting conversations.
Andy:We're getting a very broad spectrum. In fact, in in all of these films, this may be the one that gives us the broadest spectrum of opinions and and insights from different sides of the community. Right?
Luiza:Yeah. And the Piscotti, was made in the eighties. No?
Andy:Yeah. 1980, Hector Bobenko.
Luiza:You have much more a fantasy in a certain way, a drama.
Andy:It's so yeah. Pishote, or as you said, Pishote, the law of the, the the weak is kind of the, translation of the, full title in English. This film follows this young kid. He's a 10 year old boy, named Pishote. He's from the favelas.
Andy:We start the film. He ends up in this juvenile detention center. You know, it's it's kind of like learning to live on your own sort of story. You know? It's it's very tough.
Andy:And that's the thing that makes this film so interesting is, like, how difficult the adult world is. Right? He's he's seeing crime. He's seeing gangs. He's seeing sexual encounters.
Andy:All of these different things that, you know because then they escape and they go from Sao Paulo to Rio de Janeiro where they, you know, to sell drugs. And his friendship circle dwindles as people keep leaving or getting killed, and it finally is just him and this prostitute that they're living with. And you have that haunting shot of him where he's really kind of broken, and he goes into a fetal position on her lap and is, like, you know, almost infantile as he's kind of breastfeeding on her before she kicks him out. And that's the end of the film. He leaves kind of walking and and walking, along a train track.
Andy:And it's I mean, it is an interesting shift in this genre because now it's we're only with these kids and it's only kids who are streetless or or homeless living on the streets Yeah. And turning to crime essentially. Right? So how does this how does that shift from 1955 with Rio 40 degrees to this? Like, we're getting this big shift in in, and maybe it's just what Hector Babenco wanted to say, but it's a shift in kind of that social realism or social commentary, as we kind of shift to to look at this life.
Luiza:Yes. It's the end of, the the period. The
Andy:Innocence?
Luiza:Yeah. That's the word. Yeah. It was the end of the innocence, and it was another context, of course. And Shlots never shows the favelas, the cities, the families as you as you pointed.
Luiza:But the streets, they only have the streets. The abandonment, childhood, the streets, families, they form. Now they they they they embrace the small gangs. And this film was based on a novel called Pishoti, Childhood of the Dead.
Andy:Tough title.
Luiza:Written, yeah, by a journalist called Jose Lozano. And, it was kind of a bestseller here in Brazil. And, this but this screenplay was written by Bavenko and Jorge Duran. 2 foreigners. No?
Luiza:Bavenko was Argentinian, and Duran is Chilean, if I'm not sure. And they look at I I suppose they look at for a more universal approach of the the the problem. You can, you can compare with other cities in the world, the great cities with kids in the streets, and then you you have something. I think it's, it's a it was intentional. Notice.
Luiza:They build a cool a very cool portray. They portray a very cool world for these kids. And that there is something else. The the kids that I I think it's much more about Babenco than favela movies or all their movies has only, a true gender character. They have in Pishoto, you know, is the the the friend of Pishoto.
Andy:Lilica. Right.
Luiza:In Kalan Giru, they have and, the kiss of the spider woman.
Andy:Yeah. A big part of that one. Well, that's an interesting because we do have that, as you said, in dry ground burning as well, not necessarily transgender, but a, homosexual character that we have our, lesbian protagonist. And that's an interesting element because in the scope of creating a community in both films, really, they're showing us this community that isn't the the main population, but they're much more accepting. And that's, I think, something that was very interesting as
Luiza:They had acceptance.
Andy:Yeah. Yeah. It was it was very interesting to see in in both of the films.
Luiza:They naturalize this in a way or another.
Andy:Yeah. Right. Exactly. Pishote, it's it's such an interesting film in the way that it explores the story. And I suppose in the scope of these films, it was really kind of the first one that had more international recognition and certainly made more of an impact because it's it's the first one that I had heard of, when I was younger and perhaps would lead to our next film that we get to, which is city of God in 2002.
Andy:And so you can almost see the trajectory in that international draw to watching these types of stories going from Pishote in 1980 all the way to City of God in 2002. This film directed by Fernando Morales and and Katya Lund, it's set in the Sid, Sidadio de Gideos favela of Rio de Janeiro, and it takes place over several decades. So far, this is the one that feels the most cinematic. We're jumping back and forth through time. We have different chapters as we explore different characters, and we we start with them young, and then we watch how their these 2 young men, Rocket and Lil z, how they they kind of navigate the world, one moving away from it, but always living there and eventually kind of becoming a journalist and kind of a photojournalist and documenting it, and the other one turning toward the life of crime and violence and kind of taking things over.
Andy:What really made this film a turning point for this type of, storytelling, and how does it balance, I suppose you could say, the social commentary with this more stylized storytelling?
Luiza:Well, there are many, many points, but City of God doesn't judge its characters. And that's the reason for much of the shock it causes. It's when the film breaks with a certain way of approaching the social exclusion that the sense from cinema novel, but it's not a reproduction, and can be found in some of the films of the nineties. So in sea of god, the bad guys are indeed the good guys. Yeah.
Luiza:They're the main characters. The drug dealers are heroes in a way. They're the good guys sometimes, and that is shocking. And there's the question of the narrative. No.
Luiza:The the way they they they the strategy of narrative. They are full of irony, reminiscent of action films, that's something in common with, action films. In the book, this isn't as pronounced. Everybody dies in the books. You don't have main characters dying.
Andy:They're
Luiza:dying all the time. The main character on the book is city of God.
Andy:Oh, okay. The city itself.
Luiza:No other characters. No. It's another way to to set things. 1 of the protagonist of the book want to be a writer, but he's not as naive as the boy in the movie. No?
Luiza:He wants to be a photographer, but he's so shine. No. The main the main character of the book the main character one of the most interesting characters of the book wants to be a writer, but he likes.
Andy:Uh-huh.
Luiza:There's no way out for City of God. That's the idea of the the the main idea of the the the writer. You have to change everything. In the movie in the movie, in the city of God, you have some kinds of no. The boy wants to be a photographer.
Luiza:He he will realize this dream in a way or another. And the TV show they're doing now, they're producing now, he's back. He's a photographer.
Andy:City the the TV show that you're talking about is called City of Men.
Luiza:About City of Man. He's Yeah. He's a photographer. Wow. No.
Luiza:He he can do all the things because that's the the the the message. Everyone dies because that form of social organization has no way out. That's the idea of the the the writer, Paul Luiz. And the movie, no. You will find something.
Luiza:It's, in the way to narrating. You have something kind of relief, but not this much. No? But in the end, some drug dealers are arrested, disappear in the newspaper articles. I don't know if you remember.
Luiza:Yep. And so there's a solution. No. One third of, one third of this casting was made from a selection a selection of, young people who were already doing amateur work. Now the group, NOS the MOMO, We From the Slams, and other actors recruited from a process that would result in the creation of, EMGA.
Luiza:I don't know long term. It's all in in Portuguese, but NGO, Nongovernment Organization.
Andy:Organization. Yeah. Yeah. Organization. Sure.
Andy:Sure. Yeah.
Luiza:And so that's it. It's all this strategy is very different from Rio 40 degrees, triangle burning. Okay? It's much more organized, and many of these actors of the movie, they have their careers now. They're alive.
Luiza:They're they're in the TV shows. They're in the movies.
Andy:Yeah. I mean, it's definitely a shift, you know, that we've gone to a a film that feels like a movie. Right? This feels like it didn't need to even be based on a book or a real life. It could have just been, you know, a fiction that somebody wrote that happened to take place, in this favela, and we're just kind of watching this.
Andy:Like, it it feels so cinematic, and I think that's something that likely with the push, you know, for domestic, or international release, I think that's one of the selling points for it is that it's a film that was easy to market. You know? I I think that's why it it it was so stylized, and and the nonlinear narrative is something, that people really enjoy watching kind of nonlinear storytelling. And it's you know, it fits in with kind of I mean, you mentioned the comparison that they had, you know, feeling excited to be compared to Scorsese. And I think that's something that, you know, Scorsese is another filmmaker who excels at making stories about, life of crime.
Andy:Like, many of his films have certainly taken that approach. And and I think that that's something that, Morales and Lund in making this, they, they tapped into that in a very strong way and made something that just, I think, allowed for it to reach a broader audience. And I think that was something that but and, again, the drawback is more people who watch it think, oh, this is what life is like in Brazil.
Luiza:Yeah.
Andy:Well, and then speaking to our next film, because I think city of God certainly leads to where we're going, and that's elite squad, 2007, Jose Padilla's film. This is another very cinematic, very filmic type of story. It follows the it's the story of captain Nascimento as, he is the leader of this special police unit called Bopi. And they have been tasked with combating the drug trafficking and all the crime in the favelas of of Hugh De Janeiro. And that's kind of the big the focus of the story.
Andy:But again, we have a story that feels very structured in the way it's being told. We've got the wraparound device. It starts with a scene that happens later in the film, and then we jump back in time to kind of explore how we got to that point where this this, big shootout is going down. So, again, it feels very much in line with what city of God had kind of created. So how does this approach this genre or this subgenre differently, and I guess from the perspective of the law enforcement now.
Andy:And what really are the implications that we end up getting from this shift in focus?
Luiza:Alex Squared was, in so, the box office was great, one of the greatest in Brazil. And, but it's not he's not it's not exactly considered a fam a favela movie or a favela film, but a police action movie.
Andy:Sure. Yeah.
Luiza:And that was the the the great difference because, police officers in Brazil, they don't have a good, how can I say? People much more, fear them than trust them. Historically, store I'm, I'm trying to to talk about the republic, the meaning. Oh?
Andy:Yeah. Yeah.
Luiza:Throughout our story, we never had a movie with such a strong police presence. Stories of robbers, crimes, but police protagonist never. Very few. Our police have always been very poor, often often seen by the population more as a threat than as a security, supporting the tanked ships. It's it's not completely, true, but it's the image.
Luiza:Now despite the fact that these police officers are chocolate and violet, And it's back became the country's biggest box office hit on in in his release in this release. And put the police forces in the spotlight.
Andy:For good and for bad.
Luiza:For good and for bad. And but young people just loving this. I have many students, whose, parents are police officers. And they told me, oh, teacher. How great?
Luiza:I fear cap captain Nascimento, but they love her. Yeah. Was a good example.
Andy:Well, and that it's interesting because there's definitely Nascimento is, I guess, you could say, quote, one of the good guys. Right? Like, he comes into this wanting to get rid of corrupt police officers, and we'll certainly talk more about that when we in our member conversation when we talk about the sequel because there's definitely more of that as he moves further into politics. But that's like, he wants to like, he sees their special police unit, BOPI, as this opportunity to help kind of clean up crime and especially knowing that so many of the actual police officers out there are corrupt. And that is, I think, that's such an interesting thing that it did lead to this very controversial reception when the movie was released and allowed for more of a public discourse about what is actually happening, like, in Brazil, both probably within your country, but also outside of the country about, like, looking at what is happening in Brazil with its police that is allowing it to be so corrupt and corruptible.
Luiza:Yeah. That's the same. But that that it's part of our history. They had never been independent of this government. It's another story.
Luiza:The the history, the Brazilian history is very different from United States history in in this point. Okay?
Andy:Sure. Yeah.
Luiza:And they are kind of, supporters of the army. It's it's something complicated. And so this allied squads, these special squads are a way to to say, oh, we want to to to end up with this, with this corruption. The good guy. But also violence.
Luiza:Very violence. No? In in the first movie. No? And it's quite 1.
Luiza:And and in the second, you have something different. Okay? And squad came out at a time that that the real police were beginning to develop a project to pacify the favelas called the Pacifying Police Unity, UPP. It's UPP.
Andy:Yeah. Yeah.
Luiza:But, many critics don't don't like, doesn't like, they don't like the captain Nesimento because he his methods.
Andy:Yeah. His his methods. And I think that's the dark element of the story as we're watching this. And I suppose there's this element of, like, which comes up in the second film because it's like, well, they work. But where does that where does that lead to, and who's really behind it?
Luiza:They they they are worse than the bandits, please.
Andy:Yeah. No. That's very interesting. Yeah.
Luiza:No. No. They cannot.
Andy:Yeah. It's an interesting portrayal for sure. And it's inter I mean, I do like that in this conversation, we are getting to kind of at least have that other perspective of, okay, so many of our stories have been the people who live there. Now we're looking at the police who are trying to figure out what to do about it, not just the the the special squad that's looking at what do we do about that, but also what do we do about these corrupt police officers. So let's jump into our last film here, dry ground burning, directed by, Joanna Pimenta and Adarly Quiros.
Andy:This is 2023. This film has we've already discussed is set in a favela around Brasilia. This is the Solna Senci favela. We're following a group of women, and they run an illegal oil refinery. As you were saying, it's it's interesting.
Andy:Like, they wanna start up this actual business, and they end up, finding themselves kind of in conflict with the authorities and trying to figure out how we can make this thing work. It's interesting because there's definitely the plot to this story, but it feels very loose as you were saying. It doesn't necessarily feel as scripted. It feels like they were just coming up with elements and moods that they wanted to kind of create over the course of this. How does this film, which is the most recent on our list, 2023, represent the current state of this subgenre or or theme of favela films, and what new perspectives and themes does this actually introduce now?
Luiza:I don't know. You know? Because, KRAS is very unique.
Andy:Unique?
Luiza:In the in the in the Brazilian movies about, favelas, but not only. In science fiction, in this, we call them, garage films, low five films.
Andy:That's a theme in the the all the different types of films that they're making. They're all they all feel very
Luiza:Yeah.
Andy:Low fi as you said. I I do think what's interesting is we're still seeing a lot of the same issues in the favelas. And as you said, we're casting real people for this film. We're casting these these people are real women who have lived in the favelas, who have been in prison, and their characters are named after the actresses playing the roles. Right?
Andy:Like, all of it feels like there is I mean, you already mentioned there is this blending in this of documentary and fiction. In fact, there are times in the film where suddenly it's like they're talking to somebody being interview or, like, interviewing them. And it's it's a little off putting as you're watching it. I mean, I had to stop and go like, wait a minute. Who are they talking to?
Andy:Is this, like, trying to figure out, is this partially a documentary too? Like, trying to figure out exactly what the structure was of this because it is so unique. But that being said, I think we're getting so much about the kind of the continuation of the struggles of people in these favelas. And I think that's something we're seeing is the cycle and how it's so hard to break out of the cycle. Looking all the way back to Rio 40 degrees, you know, these kids are trying to sell peanuts to make some money, and they're always pushed down.
Andy:Right? And we see that through and then city of god and and even in elite squad from the perspective of the police. But all of these people are trying to just make a living and survive and do something, but it's like society. Like, they can't break out of the cycle that they're in. And that's definitely something we see here with these women as they're you know, we follow one of them, Leah, who's out of prison and trying to move on.
Andy:But she gets back into the cycle, and it's it's, like, hard because what else are they going to do? And I think it's only is it Andrea, the one who's really trying to make a change and goes into politics, and she's running for office. And I think that was, like, the biggest change that we saw with one of these characters over the films.
Luiza:I think there's something else about, Kratos and Pimenta.
Andy:Yeah.
Luiza:They don't believe, in democracy or governments. It's clear. They have this conscience. No. No her.
Luiza:Sister. They are not expecting something else from the government, the president, whatever. And in the another favela films or movie films about, Edsquared, everything we we mentioned here, you don't have discussions. Okay? They are suffering.
Luiza:They are make a living. They are dreaming of being accepted. They want to be actors, journalists, something. And, all the movies of karoz and pimienta, you you never will find us.
Andy:Interesting.
Luiza:It's something very different. Politically and, and I suppose, he's not worried. They are not worried about the audiences. They don't have a great options. You you you right?
Luiza:Yeah. They don't seem, worried about this.
Andy:Well, I mean, it's definitely an interesting step in the direction of the films that we're looking at. Because as different as they are as far as, like, their type of storytelling, they're still sticking with a lot of these elements that we've been discussing. So let's move on from here and just, like, looking at favela films, they have, you know, for good or for bad, they've left a mark on Brazilian cinema and certainly have influenced, various aspects of society and culture. What what is their influence? Have you do you see in other films, like, they have these films had an impact on Brazilian cinema have by introducing different themes and styles and narratives?
Luiza:In Brazilian cinema, I can see. Worldwide, I think it's it's different. I I cannot measure this. I cannot evaluate this. It's, so if you without an example, say, oh, that movie.
Andy:Yeah. Right. Right.
Luiza:Think about this movie? Because, the architecture of the poverty is the same in the worldwide, a friend of mine told me once. You this actually the the the the slums, the the poor people, but you have some difference. You have the religion. You have so so many, many other, another elements to to judge and the things, the Philippines, Thailand.
Andy:India, wherever. Yeah.
Luiza:Yeah. You have it everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Luiza:And so you have different ways to approach. But in Brazilian cinema, that's it. I think that they they changes. You you for a degree, City of Guam, edit the square. Yeah.
Luiza:They changed the way you look to these people. Doesn't I'm not I'm not thinking I'm not suggesting that the movies can change society because I I don't believe in this. But the the movies, they are not the same. You never will find a fashion decorator house also in the in favelas now. That's something I think it's much more difficult to to perceive.
Andy:Yeah. It's, I mean, it's such an interesting set of films to look at, and I think that there is an interesting look at shedding light on the challenges going on in the favelas. And at the very least, it's sparking conversations about kind of social justice, urban development, gentrification. Like, there are a lot of different elements that we're seeing. And with these these films, they're empowering these favela communities, giving them a platform.
Andy:Right? And I think that's an important element of these. So, well, Louisa, I mean, thank you so much for joining me. Again, whether it's a subgenre or a theme, it's it's a fascinating conversation to have. I certainly appreciate you joining me, to look at these films and what they're saying.
Luiza:Oh, thank you for this opportunity to talk about it.
Andy:Yeah. Well, I I love the films. I mean, it's a great set of films, regardless of kind of the all of the different elements that we're talking about. I mean, I think they're just they're great films to look at and to kind of explore Brazil. Do you have anywhere online that, you hang out where people can follow you and, on the socials?
Luiza:I'm I'm not just a critic and researcher, but I have also become a book publisher.
Andy:Hey. Fantastic.
Luiza:Yeah. But I'm the founding partner of a small very small independent publishing house called Polythermo. I don't know if it it's the the way you will pronounce in English. But the the old movie theaters in Brazil, they are called polyderamas. And we are launching, releasing an, a sequel called Fantastika, which is aimed to discuss fantastic genre, cinema, fantasy, horror, all the genres.
Andy:Nice. But we'll make sure we include links in the show notes so that that people can check that out. Love it. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Andy:Next month, it is a little bit of a mystery. Not exactly sure what we're going to be talking about next month. It could be folklore. It could be the French New Wave. I'm not sure.
Andy:Wait until next month. It'll be a fantastic surprise no matter what we end up talking about. So, again, to, Luisa, and we'll see you next time. Thanks for joining us on CinemaScope, part of the True Story FM Entertainment Podcast Network. Music by Orcus and Diesmo.
Andy:Find us and the entire Next Real family of film podcasts at true story dot f m. Follow us on social media at the next real, and please rate and review us if your podcast app allows. As we part ways, remember, your cinematic journey never ends. Stay curious.