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Best Beginnings is the podcast for everyone working in or caring about the early years. Hosted by George Looker, CEO of Babyzone, each episode brings together leading researchers, clinicians, practitioners, policymakers and parents to explore the evidence, ideas and innovations shaping how we support children and families in the UK.
From infant mental health and attachment to workforce challenges and systems change, Best Beginnings goes beyond the headlines to have the conversations that matter most in early childhood.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Best Beginnings is brought to you by Babyzone, a national charity operating free, evidence-based family hubs across England for families with children aged 0–5.
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Unknown
one thing that has completely blown me away is the expertise the princess has on this.
00:00:06:08 - 00:00:10:21
Unknown
From the very first interview to the to the everyday meetings.
00:00:10:23 - 00:00:18:17
Unknown
She really knows this inside out. And she she's not just passionate, she's really knowledgeable.
00:00:18:17 - 00:00:23:06
Unknown
And so to anyone listening to this, she's producing work. There's a good chance she's watching and she's seen it.
00:00:23:06 - 00:00:31:06
Unknown
So the depth of her knowledge is remarkable and really inspiring to those who see it in action.
00:00:31:08 - 00:00:53:07
Unknown
Welcome back to Best Beginnings, a podcast from Baby Zone about what happens in the first five years of life and why it shapes everything that comes after. I'm George and my guest today, has spent his career on what seems a deceptively simple question. If everyone agrees that the early years matter, why is it so hard to get the country to act like it?
00:00:53:09 - 00:01:06:04
Unknown
Christine Guy is executive director of the Royal Foundation Center for Early Childhood. The organization that's founded by the Princess of Wales to build a societal movement around the earliest years of life.
00:01:06:09 - 00:01:39:09
Unknown
Prior to joining the center for Early Childhood, Christian was the CEO of international anti-human trafficking NGO Justice and Care, and before that he ran the influential think tank the center for Social Justice, focusing on the root causes of poverty. He was also on the Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission, and served as a special adviser to Prime Minister David Cameron, during which time he focused on the life chances strategy, getting earlier support for families, especially those who needed it most.
00:01:39:11 - 00:01:53:10
Unknown
Under his leadership, the center has produced the Shaping Us framework, a piece of work that's become one of the clearest attempts to translate the evidence on early childhood development into something that the whole country can act on and explain. A series
00:01:53:10 - 00:02:01:09
Unknown
of animations that are now used by practitioners and organizations across the UK, including at baby's own hubs.
00:02:01:11 - 00:02:27:04
Unknown
This is a telling moment for this conversation. The center's work is increasing, reaching beyond the UK, with a recent visit to Italy Reggio Emilia signaling early ambitions for what this movement could look like internationally. Alongside continued work here at home, including with the Institute of Health visitors and now with universities and colleges training the next generation of the early years workforce.
00:02:27:09 - 00:02:44:00
Unknown
Christian's central case is that raising awareness is not the same as lasting change, and the real test is whether we can get attention built into the systems and services that shape a child's earliest years. Christian. Welcome to Best Beginnings.
00:02:44:00 - 00:02:48:16
Unknown
George, good to be here. I'm just sorry we're wearing the same shirt, but I'm glad we went for different trousers.
00:02:48:16 - 00:02:49:20
Unknown
But we should have called, I
00:02:50:01 - 00:02:52:12
Unknown
hopefully listeners will forgive
00:02:52:14 - 00:02:53:05
Unknown
that. They
00:02:53:11 - 00:02:53:20
Unknown
watching.
00:02:53:20 - 00:03:05:05
Unknown
And I guess Christian, we start at the top. If anyone hasn't heard of the center, what does the Royal Foundation for Early Childhood want to achieve? What is it that you're doing? Well,
00:03:05:07 - 00:03:13:08
Unknown
the center is the vision of the Princess of Wales, but it started when she spent a lot of time with adults who had hit royal crises.
00:03:13:09 - 00:03:32:15
Unknown
So she spent a lot of time in and out of the prison system, looking at those who are recovering from addiction with poor mental health and other issues. And actually, she became fascinated in the importance of the earliest years. A lot of people said to her that they lacked the belonging, the love, the safety and security that those early years should really provide.
00:03:32:15 - 00:04:02:20
Unknown
And she became really intrigued by that. She's an avid learner. She's fascinated by the science as well. So she spent time with neuroscientists and others to really understand whether there was something in that, and became very focused on the science that's been inspiring many of us in the field for for decades now, but therefore wanted to set something up the center to be a marker in the sand and to be a force to help drive, focus not just on people who need help when things are gone wrong, but to lead.
00:04:02:20 - 00:04:30:08
Unknown
If you like, a prevention revolution and to focus on early help in our society as well, and to put the early years where they right foot long as a foundation stone of of a healthy society. So the center really exists to drive that forward with her. She's very passionate about it, very involved. And as you said in the introduction, looking at the whole of society, there's a real belief in the center and with the princess that this is just not just a job for parents and caregivers, but it truly does take a village or a society to raise a child.
00:04:30:08 - 00:04:31:20
Unknown
And that's what we're focused on.
00:04:31:22 - 00:04:43:06
Unknown
And I mentioned some of your background at the top of the conversation, and you came from running an NGO that was focused on anti-trafficking. What was it that made you want to move into early childhood specifically?
00:04:43:06 - 00:04:56:09
Unknown
I just think it's refreshing to talk about the foundations and to think preventative. And we spend so much time and focus, and rightly so, as a society, picking up the pieces and supporting people when things are gone wrong.
00:04:56:09 - 00:05:22:18
Unknown
And while the early years are, of course, no guarantee of of a good, long and healthy life, we know things can go very wrong after a brilliant start. But we also know, of course, you can recover from a bad start. It's never too late. But what appeals to me about this is that we've got a chance to look ahead and lay strong, healthy foundations and to help shift a society and a system to broaden its efforts on getting those down.
00:05:22:19 - 00:05:38:18
Unknown
Payments made early. Looking at what's going to set people up over the long term, as well as, of course, providing many chances when things are gone on. So that really appeals to me. And and the princess is on a mission, you know, she's she's thinking about making a difference right here today, but also is thinking about 30 or 40 years ahead.
00:05:38:18 - 00:05:59:01
Unknown
And so it's refreshing to come into organization and sit with her and think, how do we look at the next few decades of change? We want to help, to spark and not just the two year strategy of the three of strategy. So the the foundations, the long term. And I think lastly, her leadership is a special opportunity as well to to influence culture around an issue which maybe we come back to you.
00:05:59:02 - 00:06:04:12
Unknown
So lots of it appealed to me. I loved my previous job, but the the appeal on prevention was really strong.
00:06:04:14 - 00:06:21:00
Unknown
Absolutely. And you know on behalf of Baby Zone, but also the wider sector and the families that we work with, it's amazing to have such an influential but also passionate advocate right at the very top to really try and think about how we can embed what we're doing as a sort of delivery organization.
00:06:21:00 - 00:06:46:15
Unknown
But lots of other charities I know that support and think about how to work with and it's it is building momentum. I feel like there is a conversation about the early years right now that perhaps wasn't there a decade or a couple of decades ago. Let's think about some of the very tangible things that you've driven over the last few years within the center, and things like the Shaping Us framework.
00:06:46:17 - 00:06:52:16
Unknown
What is that again, to anyone that's uninitiated on it? And what was the gap that it was perhaps designed to fill?
00:06:52:21 - 00:07:08:07
Unknown
Well, one of the big focuses for the center, one of the big territories of the early childhood, particularly for the princess and for the center, is social and emotional development. And to really think about that social emotional wiring that we help the future generations to, to, to build and have.
00:07:08:08 - 00:07:32:18
Unknown
When you look at some of the challenges we face, a lot of it comes down to that sense of social and emotional development and growth. And so the Shaping Us framework was put together with over 30 countries around the world, with experts across child and adult development, to really answer the question of which of the social emotional skills in the modern world, across our cultures, matter most.
00:07:32:18 - 00:07:50:04
Unknown
And so the the 30 skills in that framework are really a description or a definition of what good development looks like in the social emotional domain, and therefore are kind of a rallying call for, for us as a center and that we take out to society and across the system to say, here is what good can look like.
00:07:50:04 - 00:08:08:24
Unknown
Here are the key skills we need to develop as we look at children and as they become adults. And we know, of course, from the science that so much of that wiring starts early. And so the framework sits there as hopefully a place of common language, common understanding and and a real vision for what good development can look like early on.
00:08:09:01 - 00:08:29:18
Unknown
And you've also produced some really impactful and important reports. And we'd cite a lot of the work that you've done in terms of the economics, the missed opportunity that a lack of investment in the early years brings downstream in a longer term for society, but also things like that Foundation for life report, and that sits at the very heart of some of your work.
00:08:29:19 - 00:08:33:06
Unknown
Tell us more about that and some of the gaps that you identified there.
00:08:33:06 - 00:08:59:05
Unknown
Well, the foundations for life guide sits under the Shaping US framework. So you've got the 30 skills and you've got six clusters of development. And the foundations for Life guide was very much a follow up that was designed to unpack what social development is, how it happens, and some of the core tenants of it, and some of them, the markers and the signs of success that we that we see in children and some of the risk factors and the the challenges that can get in the way of good development.
00:08:59:09 - 00:09:31:11
Unknown
Because of course, we don't see children in isolation. And we as parents and caregivers and support services deal with many factors that can make life easier for us or a lot harder. So that guide is is long. If anyone's tried to read it, it's weighty, but we break it down in different ways, and it's there again to help to shape a systems response so that if for anyone working with babies and children, or even thinking about getting involved in early childhood, there's a tangible breakdown of what this means and the core ingredients ingredients from it.
00:09:31:11 - 00:09:36:09
Unknown
So that that guide then shapes a lot of what we want to see the system starting to come in to do a bit more,
00:09:36:11 - 00:09:58:04
Unknown
and obviously loath to ask for any favorites. But have you seen it being applied anywhere where you've seen the the framework really kind of inaction that you've been really proud of, the, the outcome or you've seen somewhere using it in a way that perhaps you weren't necessarily anticipating it, but you're seeing really great results.
00:09:58:04 - 00:10:21:23
Unknown
Well, one of one of the things I love is when you when you travel around the country in this job and you meet so many incredible people out there, whether they be parents and caregivers and others, whether they are professionals, volunteers like the ones that babies own or homes. Start other wonderful organizations, backbone organizations supporting our efforts as a society to raise to raise young children.
00:10:21:23 - 00:10:49:11
Unknown
When you just hear about pieces of work that may be shaped what they're doing. We produced some animated explainers recently last summer, which, again, were designed with practitioners and those working with families to help them to curate good conversations with parents and those raising children, taking the science that we know matters around certain return or pacing or scaffolding, all the things that amount to really good, healthy social development.
00:10:49:11 - 00:11:14:21
Unknown
And when you hear people, I was in Jersey recently, you meet health visitors working with families on the front line who say, well, that that animation or that guide really helped me to shape the conversation I'm having with a family in real need. You. You you hear those moments and you think, actually these these are helpful. So I love just the unexpected anecdotes that we hear about how these resources are hopefully proving useful.
00:11:14:22 - 00:11:27:17
Unknown
Because the one thing to say is there are amazing people out in the system knowledgeable, working hard in difficult situations, and we just want to get behind them, put the very best tools and resources into their hands to let them do the brilliant job that they
00:11:27:19 - 00:11:36:17
Unknown
can do. Yeah, and we know, certainly, as you said, they're used across our network by the professionals and practitioners that work with parents in different baby's own hubs.
00:11:36:17 - 00:12:06:21
Unknown
And it's very useful to have something modern and fresh that also conveys really complex science, but sort of something that's really fundamental to understanding the role that we all have when we're talking to families, when we're talking to young children. And I guess, yeah. Have you had conversations with parents about it? What do you hear from parents around the animations, or what kind of differences have you heard in terms of how it's influenced, perhaps how those practitioners talk to parents?
00:12:07:01 - 00:12:46:10
Unknown
interestingly, you meet a lot of parents who say, well, I saw this from the Princess, or I've read this piece of content or saw this film or this document, and it made me think about something. I mean, one example was the princess's essay recently on the Power of Connection in a Distracted Digital World. And I meet parents all the time who said I read what the princess was saying there, and it's really helped me to think about how I used my technology or my relationship with my phone when my kids are around and, you know, you meet parents who are just doing unbelievable work and doing their best in tough situations, but they might
00:12:46:10 - 00:13:02:20
Unknown
see something and it just sort of makes them reflect on a on an element of life or what they might, might do or not do. So you and you also kind of the reason we love babies and other organizations is because you're on the front line. So when we can see that we're helping you, we know we're helping families.
00:13:02:24 - 00:13:23:24
Unknown
We don't really give parenting advice as a center. We we don't work directly with parents. We really want to empower a system of amazing people like you have babies and and others to do what only they can do. So when you hear those anecdotes and you hear the reflections, it's really special. But we we want to get behind people that are doing that, that work with families.
00:13:23:24 - 00:13:39:04
Unknown
Yeah. Well, it's great for us to be a vehicle, as it were, to spread it across our network and all the families that we see each week. I guess there's other work that you've been doing, especially with the Institute of Health visiting on the alarm distress baby scale.
00:13:39:06 - 00:13:44:17
Unknown
ADB can you explain what that project is and what that means, and why it's significant to you?
00:13:44:19 - 00:14:12:01
Unknown
It's a good example of where I think the princess and the center can play a role. So the princess went to Denmark on a on a working visit with the center a number of years ago now, and saw some innovation in this tool that was being used in Denmark, ADB and and reflected on whether it could be brought across to the UK because we really want to learn from all over the world and the innovation that exists, as well as kind of share the expertise that exists within the UK as the world looks to the UK.
00:14:12:03 - 00:14:42:14
Unknown
So the the the pilot was set up with the NHS, the Institute of Health visiting that we were able to fund, which really looked at this tool, which is a fascinating tool that comes with training, which is all about the emotional health and the relational sort of signs that babies show early. And so it's almost a new lens is what health visitors are describing it as with us, that helps them to see a baby, to really look at the baby, to see the communication that babies can offer even in those early weeks and months.
00:14:42:14 - 00:15:04:01
Unknown
And it's designed to really spot any small warning signs of emotional withdrawal or relational challenges, poor attachment, and to kind of get in early with conversations that help visitors then are trained and supported to have. That might might mean that bigger problems that would emerge later. If those early signs are not spotted or ignored, they don't build up as much.
00:15:04:02 - 00:15:25:19
Unknown
And so that started in two parts of the UK. It's now been working in ten NHS areas and is about to go, we hope national. We're setting up a national community of practice with the IV and working with commissioners and others to really spread it. So it's an example where we want to help to support innovation and get behind people doing brilliant work, and to see if we can add more and strength from
00:15:25:19 - 00:15:26:08
Unknown
things further.
00:15:26:09 - 00:15:49:13
Unknown
Yeah, an amazing to have such an advocate that's pushing us forwards and able to put or equip health visitors in a different way and support the amazing work that they do. And you mentioned Denmark. You've also been doing other international trips. I know that recently you were in Italy, Reggio Emilia. What was what about that visit stood out to you?
00:15:49:15 - 00:16:10:08
Unknown
That was a real joy, that visit, because, I mean, the the center will always primarily focus on, on the UK. And we want to help make a difference here. And we also recognize there's so many brilliant people here that we learn from. But the princess does have an international role that will only increase in the years to come, and this is such a driving force within her.
00:16:10:11 - 00:16:36:21
Unknown
The focus on early childhood and and its importance that it will inevitably play a big part of what she wants to do around the world. So she hadn't been abroad for a long time given her health journey. And so when the opportunity came up to go and look at something really innovative that would inspire us as a center and actually we could point to across the world that as a wonderful example of really what it means to invest in early childhood.
00:16:36:21 - 00:17:05:04
Unknown
Well, over a consistent period of time, we went to and and what was so inspirational about that was there was a story of a brilliant place that had prioritized this since the Second World War. And we met some of the now 90 year old women who had set up the model after the war, as Italy was sort of rebuilding in the wake of fascism, the apparently the men in the city of Reggio wanted to build a theater to entertain themselves.
00:17:05:04 - 00:17:30:04
Unknown
And the women said, no, we must build preschools and educate next the next generation. And thankfully the women one we met some of those women with the princess who were wonderful. But Reggio was for decades now invested in early childhood, and they've seen the value of early childhood and supporting children as its own good. You know, often in in our world we talk about the future return and early childhood, but obviously we need to support children for the sake of supporting children.
00:17:30:04 - 00:17:58:06
Unknown
Every child deserves a childhood that is safe and adventurous and and loving, and Reggio has put that at the center of the city for for decades, but also the model. They developed, the approach within the preschools. The philosophy, as they would call it, of of healthy child development was really inspiring. So it was wonderful to see that in action and also to to see again the the potential the princess has to bring that magnetic energy to early childhood.
00:17:58:06 - 00:18:13:05
Unknown
And we were there for a couple of days. I think it was it was big news in different parts of the world. And when we when we led the press briefing out there, head of the visit, it was a brilliant opportunity to talk about why we're coming to radio, why early childhood matters. What is it about Reggio we can learn from?
00:18:13:06 - 00:18:22:04
Unknown
And so there was brilliant inspiration on the ground, but also it helped us to see that we can hopefully play a role to generate energy and attention around this issue.
00:18:22:04 - 00:18:41:01
Unknown
Yeah. Amazing way to put the spotlight, as you say, on early childhood and some fantastic initiatives globally without asking a leading question, where's next? Are there any other kind of models or countries that you're particularly interested in looking at, and identifying that best practice and potentially spreading that knowledge globally?
00:18:41:04 - 00:19:04:04
Unknown
Well, as I say, the UK will always be the the primary base for the center. So we're not we're not running. But I think as, as we as we said at the time, we want to shape a global conversation about the profound importance of of the first five years of life. I still think there's a big job to do around the world to to put this science into the hearts and minds of people.
00:19:04:04 - 00:19:25:23
Unknown
And so there's a need to shape a global conversation, which the Princess and the center will will do, and also to work with others. We've talked about building an alliance around that and, and finding ways of, of excellence being showcased and, and developed and strengthened. And so I watch this space because we're, we're working on some exciting, exciting plans.
00:19:25:23 - 00:19:56:11
Unknown
And there'll be there'll be future, future visits. But we want the UK to be at the heart of that. And we feel we can help to bring the world together around the innovation that's out there, the the lessons we learn on the frontline in Grimsby, where you've opened all the way through to brilliant people working in in a city Nairobi or outback Australia, you know, the Amazonian regions, what we see is around the world is so many wonderful people taking that science and supporting job development.
00:19:56:11 - 00:20:01:19
Unknown
And I think we want to we want to showcase that innovative ways and get the world focused on it in a bigger
00:20:01:21 - 00:20:17:10
Unknown
And I look forward to seeing all of that. And yeah, coming back to the UK then in terms of touch briefly on the work that the center is trying to do and your priorities nationally, where do you see organizations like baby zone delivery organizations on the ground?
00:20:17:10 - 00:20:21:08
Unknown
Where do you see that kind of close link going in the future?
00:20:21:13 - 00:20:43:04
Unknown
Well, we we love we love babies. We love many of the organizations that are the lifeblood of communities, in a sense, a lifeline. I mean, one of the things that strikes us as we work within the field and as I get to know more people in the sector in this job, is just the the backbone that exists, particularly in the charity sector, but also across the system.
00:20:43:04 - 00:21:13:00
Unknown
And so we are we want the center to be able to strengthen the work you're doing, whether that be through resources, whether it be through training or whether it be through seeding innovation, where, you know, you might want to do further, go further or do more. And we'd like to get behind organizations like yours, but also we want to elevate it and amplify this and to really increase the value that we place as a society on the work babies and and others are doing.
00:21:13:01 - 00:21:33:15
Unknown
It still often goes unnoticed. Unthanks. And I think there's a job for us to do with the princess I know is keen on this as well, is to is to really elevate the importance of the earliest years and those who are making the difference in shaping childhoods. And we often talk about this being just too important to be to be a job that we leave to parents alone.
00:21:33:16 - 00:21:58:21
Unknown
I mean, nothing is more important than parenting, but but actually the the support we put around families are really stressed and challenging. Time is vital. So we, we think both in terms of resourcing and equipping, we hope. And that's why you'll see us putting a lot of effort and investment of really high quality content or to to really create assets that people can use that really speak about the value of the work that's being done.
00:21:58:22 - 00:22:22:22
Unknown
Nothing matters more than what happens in those earliest years and the way we support families through through organizations. So we also hope that by convening and by connecting people together, that can spark innovation and partnerships that we may never see can emerge by the center being a glue in the system, if you like, so that people can come together, understand more about each others works and projects, share challenges and move
00:22:23:02 - 00:22:23:08
Unknown
forward.
00:22:23:14 - 00:22:45:21
Unknown
And that's what I mean. You know, we've found incredibly helpful in terms of connections to other people that are interested in early childhood, whether they be funders, whether they be academics, whether they be working in the policy world and looking at our model. And again, as you say, bringing all of those like minded people with shared missions, shared priorities and making sure that they're all talking to each other.
00:22:45:23 - 00:23:03:12
Unknown
You touched on it, I think. But, you know, if you were to distill it down to one thing, you know, what does success look like? If there's one thing that you could change around how the country thinks around early childhood, what would that be? And, you know, what do you think it would actually take to shift that make it happen?
00:23:03:14 - 00:23:06:20
Unknown
Well, I think it's hard to pick one thing.
00:23:06:20 - 00:23:35:01
Unknown
I think it's a it's a few things that need that need to be done. And I think that and first of all, broadly, if I look at the way climate influenced the mainstream over 30 or 40 years, often through pioneers that went out to make the case and hearts and minds and to galvanize action. When you look at climate, where it was maybe 30, 40 years ago, to what now anyone could say they might be doing to support the climate in small ways in our everyday lives.
00:23:35:02 - 00:23:57:14
Unknown
I think a similar mission and journey needs to be prioritized now, and the Princess has talked about this being given the same urgency as climate change as an issue, and we've got learning lessons from that. But we've got to do a job to bring this into the mainstream, broadly speaking, because I think the science still sits too often on the margins, not well enough understood by people who need to grasp it.
00:23:57:15 - 00:24:22:04
Unknown
You know, we know as a field and a sector that we're convinced, but we can't just preach to the choir. We can't just keep talking to each other about how important this is. That's vital. But we've got to win more people over. So I think there's a job on awareness to do, but then it's about action. And we awareness gets you so far, but we want the center to be catalyzing new ways of working, helping to scale what's already working and to to create a clear sense of both.
00:24:22:05 - 00:24:42:15
Unknown
What you know? Yes, why, but also what we want to achieve. That's why. As well as talking about the importance of the early years, we produce things like our framework because it it shows kind of what we can be looking and working for and then supporting how. I mean, there's just work that needs to be done across a system to, to deliver the right, the right support.
00:24:42:15 - 00:25:02:09
Unknown
So it's sort of galvanizing people around why this matters, showing them what good looks like in the way of early development and then backing them in how they do it. And so that's what we want to really focus on, and particularly now as a center to, to move into supporting how this has done more, more across the system in ways we can.
00:25:02:09 - 00:25:26:24
Unknown
And that's why we've worked, for example, with businesses, because we're also interested in the people that aren't yet playing the role they could be. And so we've the Princess has got a business taskforce for early childhood. And that's been fascinating because we pulled together eight of the biggest businesses in Britain. They looked at the why, they looked at the what, and now they could of getting on with how.
00:25:27:01 - 00:25:34:15
Unknown
And I think when we'd be doing more of that with some of the unusual players, as well as helping some of the most important backbone organizations that are already out there.
00:25:34:15 - 00:25:53:01
Unknown
Yeah. And I think what's interesting around what you produced as well is it's enduring. I think there's something there that's sort of not just in the moment trying to create things like the framework, but actually we can see this being used by our practitioners year over year over year and, you know, still being applicable in the years to come.
00:25:53:02 - 00:25:53:13
Unknown
So
00:25:53:16 - 00:26:13:23
Unknown
just just on that, George, I mean, one of the things that's a real priority for, for me and the team is to keep that feedback coming in. You know, we, we, we want to do things that are useful. We don't want to recreate things that clutter people's shelves or inboxes or just are easily ignored because they've got 50 of different things already.
00:26:13:24 - 00:26:31:13
Unknown
We want to be getting the feedback. And so for anyone listening out there that might have used our resources or looked at the center and thinks if only needed X or Y or Z, we would love to hear it. You know, we we try and remain as in touch as possible. We spend a lot of time in communities.
00:26:31:13 - 00:26:40:01
Unknown
We focus a lot on relationships across the field, but we want that honest sense of what's working, what's been useful and what what could be done differently. So keep it
00:26:40:04 - 00:26:51:00
Unknown
coming in. Okay. And then I guess to keep the question going, spoken about policy makers and practitioners. There are parents that also listen to this podcast. And I guess, you know, what would your message be?
00:26:51:01 - 00:27:05:07
Unknown
Because there's a lot of pressure on parents who said it's incredibly difficult, stressful time in life, but also a magical one. What would you like a parent to take away from this conversation? Or if they were in the room with you, what would you want them to hear?
00:27:05:09 - 00:27:10:11
Unknown
Well, it's always hard to give advice, but I remember the earlier as well.
00:27:10:12 - 00:27:37:12
Unknown
And I think one thing I've I feel that needs to be said is that the everyday moments really matter. And sometimes when you're plugging away and you can't always see the return or actually it can be very boring or it can be quite difficult cutting that another piece of cheese, or you're wiping down the high chair again, or you're changing the nappy in the middle of a rain shower.
00:27:37:13 - 00:28:19:21
Unknown
And it never can be those moments. We've got to be honest, that they are hard and there's a lot of pressure, but in those moments you are doing something that is so fundamental to your with with your child and the future of our very society. And there are periods, particularly when we have we've got babies and sometimes you're kind of watering that seed and you don't see it shooting up for a long time, but it's those everyday moments, sometimes the most mundane moments when you just make that choice to to look at your baby, to look at something together, to, to interact, to, to be present.
00:28:19:22 - 00:28:48:10
Unknown
They are game changing things to do and to keep going because it's hard, but it's the most important job we can ever do. And it's a cliche to say that, but but the everyday moments matter and they're not always there. In fact, they're very rarely spectacular, life changing moments. But it's the the consistent choice to love and invest that makes an incredible difference to all of us.
00:28:48:10 - 00:28:59:16
Unknown
And I think that's a very, very heartwarming. And, you know, it is a powerful message because I know firsthand how you can be tired and not quite there. And it's very
00:28:59:18 - 00:29:13:19
Unknown
difficult. And also we've got to say like, I like that. I like the people who talk about just being good enough. You know, there's a I guess, particularly with Instagram and this, this social media culture that we have all around us, that can be a great thing.
00:29:13:19 - 00:29:40:08
Unknown
But also the we all talk about this, the pressure it puts on the perfect life, the spotless house, the the, the big days out. Actually, that isn't healthy a lot of the time. It's wonderful if you can have it. But but good enough is good enough and we've got to take the pressure off parents. But we also need to help them to just know the sorts of things that make the difference, that are our good choices to make.
00:29:40:09 - 00:30:03:01
Unknown
And we did some research recently where we we talked a lot of parents and they said, you know, we're bombarded by information. We almost have too much coming out of us. We don't know who to trust, whether it be the influencer or the mother in law or the practitioner and actually or the friend at the gates. And they all kept saying, we we need someone we can trust to turn to in a local community, a volunteer or a child care worker or whoever it is held visitor.
00:30:03:01 - 00:30:05:01
Unknown
And so good enough is good enough.
00:30:05:07 - 00:30:17:23
Unknown
And it's very, very clear that that parents feel that pressure and strain. And we had Doctor Martha, who's a high profile psychologist. Same thing.
00:30:18:00 - 00:30:24:19
Unknown
30 relief 30, 30% of the time. They're doing a great job. And yeah, that was
00:30:24:21 - 00:30:30:06
Unknown
that's really helpful, I think for parents who were sort of I'm conscious of time.
00:30:30:07 - 00:30:33:10
Unknown
We had a great conversation. We might pivot slightly towards a slightly more
00:30:33:14 - 00:30:36:04
Unknown
as long as you want. Yeah.
00:30:36:06 - 00:30:42:01
Unknown
If there's one word that you'd use to describe the early years, what would that be?
00:30:42:03 - 00:30:56:19
Unknown
I think it's profound. I think it's profound because as a period of time, personally, for those who were walking through it as parents and caregivers, it completely changes your perspective.
00:30:56:20 - 00:31:17:02
Unknown
It's a very deep thing to do and to experience. So it's profound for people who are kind of going through it. But it's also very profound time for our babies and young children. And there's a sort of spirit of childhood. There's an innocence, there's a joint and adventure in childhood that we, I think, sort of adult it out of people.
00:31:17:04 - 00:31:29:08
Unknown
So it's a profound time of just living life to the full. When you are that age, when you have that opportunity, and also just a profound time for our society to cover what we've already talked about.
00:31:29:10 - 00:31:37:24
Unknown
Christian, what have you read recently? Is there a book that has stood out for you, perhaps that spoken about childhood and perhaps changed the way you think about it?
00:31:38:01 - 00:32:00:02
Unknown
Well, there's so many great books out there, and you still feel reluctant to pick one. One, I would say, is just not the answer is a brilliant book, Why Love Matters by Sue Gerhart, which was fundamental, I think, to myself, about this issue. But I'll tell you, one chapter is not a whole book. One chapter I've read recently is Rob MacFarlane's chapter called childish in his book landmarks.
00:32:00:04 - 00:32:19:05
Unknown
It has really spoken to me about the essence of childhood, the importance of the natural world and what it means to support the natural adventure and instincts and exploration that exists within babies and young children. And there's something so powerful about that chapter, so I thoroughly recommend it's a great book, but read the chapters. It's
00:32:19:07 - 00:32:36:03
Unknown
And I guess on your journey with the center, the sort of learning that you've you've had and experiences you've had, what surprised you the most? What's been the thing that's kind of been out of left field or challenged the thinking that you previously had the most?
00:32:36:05 - 00:32:45:14
Unknown
There's a lot that surprises you in this, in this job. Do you know the one thing that two things, first of all,
00:32:45:16 - 00:32:51:22
Unknown
one thing that has completely blown me away is the expertise the princess has on this.
00:32:51:24 - 00:32:56:12
Unknown
From the very first interview to the to the everyday meetings.
00:32:56:14 - 00:33:04:08
Unknown
She really knows this inside out. And she she's not just passionate, she's really knowledgeable.
00:33:04:14 - 00:33:14:12
Unknown
And that just consistently blows me away. She's always read the latest report, seen the breaking news, read the you know, another strategy before I have.
00:33:14:15 - 00:33:20:14
Unknown
So when the phone rings, you kind of take the deep breath and you better be on top of the game because she, she really follows it.
00:33:20:14 - 00:33:25:03
Unknown
And so to anyone listening to this, she's producing work. There's a good chance she's watching and she's seen it.
00:33:25:03 - 00:33:30:23
Unknown
So the depth of her knowledge is remarkable and really inspiring to those who see it in action.
00:33:31:03 - 00:33:38:12
Unknown
But the other thing is it really has surprised me, actually, which is really nice, is coming into this field. I haven't always been in this field, coming into the field.
00:33:38:12 - 00:34:01:20
Unknown
There's a real unity to it. You know, there's a real sense of what good looks like and what it takes to support babies and children. And actually, the job now is just to convince more people at scale to back it. And that and that sense of togetherness in the sector I've really enjoyed. Obviously there are priorities and preferences and disagreements, but that has been really wonderful and it's not the case in every sector on every cause.
00:34:01:20 - 00:34:22:12
Unknown
And so it's something we have to preserve as a as a group and as a community working on each other because it's special and it can take us a long way. We need to harness it. Don't. We do. And and half the time on issues, you're trying to build consensus about what it's going to take to change things and then, you know, and then make the case here.
00:34:22:12 - 00:34:30:07
Unknown
I keep people the whole time who kind of there's a lot of alignment on what matters most. It's then about working together to see it done at scale.
00:34:30:10 - 00:34:40:20
Unknown
So, Christian, I think the center is also doing some work understanding technology and techno ference when it comes to parenting, what's your ambition there? What are your early thoughts and findings?
00:34:41:01 - 00:34:54:08
Unknown
Well, it's obviously one of the kind of conversations of the day, isn't it, on screens and tech and devices. And you've only got to sit on a train and have a look up and see that we've sort of zombified of of society is underway.
00:34:54:11 - 00:35:23:03
Unknown
We often don't see each other as much and connect because we're so faced down. But when it comes to the early years, it's brilliant. Work has been done. Of course, on the impact of screen time on development and how you strike the balance with it. We're doing some work with families really embedded in family life at the moment, running this year on kind of how they're navigating tech, where tech can be a force for good because it certainly can be, and in tech can be a great source of education and entertainment.
00:35:23:03 - 00:35:39:22
Unknown
We all know that sometimes it's childcare. There's nothing wrong with that. But at the same time, how do we get that balance right? Because I know it's on a lot of minds, of a lot of parents. We're all navigating at different stages, but particularly early on because there's so much debate on social media and adolescent mental health and content.
00:35:40:00 - 00:35:59:06
Unknown
But actually, early on, we wanted to have a look at that in family life. And what are the strategies and practical ways we can support families just to make those choices about balance and to kind of find their way through. So that presents connection. Attention remains a fundamental part of good early childhood, and particularly as adults, we can look ourselves in the mirror.
00:35:59:06 - 00:36:19:03
Unknown
And sometimes, if we're honest and say we don't always get that right, it's hard. So the impact of techno ference in the early years is like top of the top of the focus. But what what do we put in place to support families to get that right and to find the balance? So we're not antitank in any sense, but just looking at that, that that balance that can support good
00:36:19:08 - 00:36:27:14
Unknown
development. Yeah we know I mean the families that we have coming into baby zones each week constantly asking questions what's what's the balance, what's good looked like.
00:36:27:14 - 00:36:38:07
Unknown
And we hosted Children's commissioner and Education minister around some of the guidance that DFA was putting out as well. So we know that it's really useful for parents. All the work
00:36:38:09 - 00:36:40:06
Unknown
Yeah. And it's important not to be anti it.
00:36:40:07 - 00:37:06:05
Unknown
You know this is the world we're in. The princess's essay recently on this was was interesting and got a got a good reaction because you know it was clear about the benefits of technology and how that's improving a lot of a lot of life and helping us tackle big challenges around the world. But actually when you look at the ingredients for, for for strong relationships and positive development early, where all the skills for relationships are learned, that comes down to connection and presence and attention.
00:37:06:05 - 00:37:09:20
Unknown
And that's just harder in a digital age. So how do we get that right is a big question.
00:37:10:01 - 00:37:21:12
Unknown
And I guess that's a nice segue into this next question, which is what gives you cause for optimism? What is it that you're working on at the center that you're most excited about? And that's around the corner?
00:37:21:14 - 00:37:45:02
Unknown
Well, broadly, I feel optimistic on this because I think there's a moment we're in actually globally, but certainly in the UK as well, where when, when there's so much division and disconnection and disagreement, we work on an issue that can unite absolutely everybody, which is that the next generation should do better than, than the current one.
00:37:45:02 - 00:38:10:07
Unknown
And wherever I've been around the world in this job, it is the thing that people can get behind. And I think there's a moment we're in, which is as we look at the future and we kind of look at the the challenges we face today, whether that be in technology or climate or conflict. There's a real desire to do it differently and to, to make to make changes for the future as we look ahead.
00:38:10:07 - 00:38:39:10
Unknown
And that means early childhood can be front and center, because we're better to start as you look at a healthier, happier planet and a stronger societies than the babies landing in them today. And so I think we're in a moment we can seize and we must. But also, I think I just want the center to be useful. I want us to find ways of of supporting people that are doing brilliant work and to keep pointing people's attention to the importance of this, this cause.
00:38:39:10 - 00:38:53:03
Unknown
And so I feel about I feel optimistic. I am sometimes probably two glass half full at work, but I think we've got to be wired that way to make progress. And I think we really can. And this is this is the moment where we're able to do
00:38:53:07 - 00:38:59:00
Unknown
that. Well, thank you so much, Christine. What a great place to end the conversation, I think. And that positive note. Thank you
00:38:59:03 - 00:39:00:17
Unknown
thank you, thank you for having me.
00:39:00:19 - 00:39:21:11
Unknown
Talking to Christian. What strikes me most is how much of this work is around translation. Taking what the evidence tells us and putting it in the hands of the people who see children and work with children every single day. That's what the Royal Foundation is trying to do. And it's also exactly the gap that Baby Zone is trying to close to.
00:39:21:13 - 00:39:43:08
Unknown
If you're remembering one thing, the tools that help us understand children's early development, from the Shaping Us framework to the explainer animations, they already exist and they're free to use and should be shared. So thank you for listening. To Best Beginnings Babies own podcast. For more evidence informed support on babies and the early years, subscribe to this channel.
00:39:43:14 - 00:39:48:11
Unknown
If you turn this helpful, share it with someone who might need it. We'll see you next time.
00:39:48:13 - 00:39:48:20
Unknown
We.