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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Today, we're talking about soil.
We're talking about the ideal
soil, how to improve soil.
It's a wonderful conversation
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: And
we'll start with the fast five.
What's your name?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Dale Strickler,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: And what's
your consulting company called?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
Regenerative Wisdom.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444:
And where are you located?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: So, we are
based right now in Wichita, Kansas.
Right in the middle of everything.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
And what year did you
start grazing animals?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh
my well, I grew up doing it.
So I'm not sure when, when you
know, you can claim to have any
sort of responsibility if, if
having responsibility means you
get blamed when things go wrong,
that would be at a very young age.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: There you go.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: But as
far as my own livestock I bought my
own herd for the first time in 96.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And, well
actually, I had some sheep, I bought sheep
in fall of 90, and bought cattle in 96.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, okay.
that kind of leads into the next question.
What livestock species have you grazed?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Cattle and
sheep predominantly cattle but my, my,
I have a major interest in multiple
species dying to get into goats.
Dying to get into pastured
poultry and pastured pork.
And I'm like, where can we go?
I love to do pastured alligators,
but my wife, she, she put the,
put the no alligator sign up
said nothing that eats toddlers,
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For 10 seconds about the farm.
We're combining it with 10
seconds about the podcast.
So not much to it today, but just
want to wish those celebrating
Christmas and Merry Christmas.
And to others, we hope
it's going well for you.
My wife asked me, she says, you're
releasing a episode on Christmas.
I said yes.
Because when I dairied.
I know I milked the cows every day.
So I know some of you are out there.
Moving cows, milking
cows doing other chores.
And this episode's for you.
If you happen to get
the day off, enjoy it.
Listen, when you get a chance.
Uh, let's jump back to the
conversation with Dale.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: I think
the, when you, when you look at
our, the status of US agriculture,
I mean, we are completely, totally
dominated by corn and soybeans
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: and I mean,
that's where most of our land, how most
of our land is used and what's, what
are those corn and soybeans used for
pigs and poultry and.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: So, even
if you do pasture pigs and poultry,
I mean, grain farming is inherently
destructive to soil, and we'll get into
that later, but it is, in isolation,
at a corn soybean rotation, your,
your soil slowly just gets worse.
over time, even with no till.
No till slows the destruction,
but it doesn't really stop it.
And you can add cover crops and
make it better, but if, if you're
grain farming without interventions
like that, you're destroying soil.
And so, Our entire country
is destroying soil.
Perennials build soil.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And so, that's
probably jumping ahead to stuff we'll be
talking about later, but I'm very, very
interested in creating pasture systems for
pork and poultry that displace Not, not
just have them on grass and then you bring
them in corn and soybean from outside so
that you're enriching this spot of land,
but impoverishing a farm somewhere else.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444:
Yeah, transferring those
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: The
feed is being produced on site.
The concentrate feed is
being produced on site.
I'm, I'm very, very excited
about that prospect.
I think it's an absolute game changer.
And it's something that
people talk about scaling up.
You know, well, you can't scale that up.
You can't do that on 10, 000 acres.
I'm like, is it really desirable for
every farm to be a million acres?
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And we have
200 farmers in the entire country.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: I mean,
is it, would it be desirable if we,
if Bill Gates owned every piece of
farm ground in the United States?
Is that progress?
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
I don't think it is.
And I think you know, Thomas
Jefferson said that one of the
greatest achievements, I believe it
was Jefferson said that one of the
greatest achievements in society would
be the creating the ability to make
a living off a very small acreage.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And it's
not about how many acres you have.
It's about having a good life and
a good lifestyle and being happy.
And I don't think owning a
million acres creates that.
You just, at some point, you just,
I mean, I have worked for a farmer
that did farm a million acres.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
And not in the U.
S., but, you know, I don't know
how you could possibly be happy.
With that level of stress in your life.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right, yeah.
I, I agree with that.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: I think it's
more important to have, have systems
of agriculture that we can scale down.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh yeah,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Can we make
a living on, it's like, name that tune.
Can I make a living on a thousand acres?
Well, I can make a living on 500.
Can I make, no.
And.
I, I think that maybe we ought to,
to flip our thinking upside down and
said, what's, how do we want to live?
What kind of food do we want to produce?
And what's the minimum amount of
acreage it takes to accomplish that?
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: oh yeah,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And if, if
you're trying to make a living with
corn and soybeans, it's like it's going
to be tough, you know, it might be
tough if you're losing money on every
acre, more acres is, is not better.
And so I think margin per acre and, and
having an enterprise that's actually
difficult to scale up can be a good thing.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: oh yeah, yeah.
Well, and you know my dad and I
talk about our land base here is
probably not changing too much
because of the cost of land.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Well,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: how do we, and
I don't like the term maximize, but how
do we optimize what we're doing here and
bring in more, more profit for the farm?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: I think
that's a great conversation to have.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Before we dive
a little bit more into and restoring
soil and doing a better job on managing
what we have, let's, let's talk
about your background a little bit.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah well, I,
I grew up on a diversified family farm.
outside of Colony, Kansas,
population about 300, about
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: at the
time one of those generic towns,
I guess, Colony but still there.
It's claim to fame is it was they put
a railroad station there because it was
the highest point in elevation between
Kansas City and the Gulf of Mexico.
So if a train stopped there,
it was downhill both ways.
So the train could go with the
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: so, it
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
gravity each direction.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: started.
And is that on Highway 75?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
Nope, that is on Highway 169.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, that's
oh,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
Between Iowa and Burnett.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: up and jogs over.
Seventy five goes to Bartlesville,
but it may jog over in Kansas.
Okay.
Yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah, it goes
on up through Yates Center and then.
Burlington and up to Topeka.
So, but yeah, and if you're, and it's kind
of odd because in, in high school last
thing I wanted to do in life was farm.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Because
farming to me was just mind numbing,
boring, hours on a tractor, stirring
dust and choking and just misery.
And I didn't find it interesting at all.
And then I go to college and I'm, I had no
idea what I wanted to be, but the military
rejected me because I had allergies.
So I had to do something.
And so I said, well, I'll, I'll,
what's the highest exit salary?
That's engineering.
So I'll go do that.
And got in my engineering classes and
I, I was doing well as far as grades,
but I, I wasn't thriving because
wasn't interested.
And my roommates were all agriculture
majors and they'd come home and they'd
have the, the neatest discussions.
So I'm like, well, this is
way more interesting than what
we learned in calculus today.
And
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: so,
I said, I'll, I'll take a,
I'll take a few ag classes.
And so, one of the first classes
I took was crop science, and
the professor, after I turned in my first
test, my professor wrote on there, read,
big red up at the top, see me after class.
I'm like, oh,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: no.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
so I got an A on the test.
He must think I cheated or
something, which is kind of
hard because it's an essay test.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Hard to cheat
on an essay test and or be accused
of cheating unless you've got someone
cheated off me or, you know, but,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: So, I went
into his office and he handed me a
magazine called New Farm Magazine.
He said somehow I got double subscribed
to this, so I always get duplicate copies.
I thought you'd like this.
I said, I'm reading the
answers on your test.
I think you'd appreciate this.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: so I read
that and, you know, growing up,
we did things very conventionally.
Corn, beans, wheat, cattle,
everything, you know, full tillage
and just, you know, very conventional.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And here's
this book is put out by, or this
magazine put out by the Rodale Institute.
You know, the organic, you
know, organic gardening,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: much into
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
but it was aimed at.
Broadacre farmers and it was
about cover crops and pastured
poultry and Joel Salatin was in
there and you know all these guys.
I'm like, wow, this is fascinating.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: I mean,
this is intellectually challenging.
This is, you know, integrating
all these systems together and.
You know, and as a kid, I loved nature
and, you know, I'd find a really
cool place out in the woods to play.
And next thing I know, dad has a bulldoze
down and it's growing corn and beans.
And I always saw agriculture
and nature as, you know, being.
The complete polar opposite of each other.
And that agriculture is something where
you destroy that cool place where I can
find salamanders or this neat place, you
know, that, you know, had all these neat
snakes or, you know, birds or whatever.
And, and, and here is this completely
foreign concept to me that you could
have a system of agriculture that
used nature to solve its problem.
And the very back page of that
magazine, it had an excerpt from a
book, and I started reading this.
Excerpt, and I'm like, this is the most
fascinating concept I've ever come across.
A book called Tree Crops.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And it
was basically, you know, just like
we were talking you know, corn and
soybeans just dominate our landscape.
And you think about the eastern U.
S.
was oak, hickory, oak, hickory, chestnuts.
you know, two carbohydrate producers and,
and then hickory would be protein and fat.
And we went and with hand
labor chopped all that down,
you know, oak, hickory and chestnuts,
perfect pig foods provide pig
food at zero cost, zero inputs,
every year, provides shade and it
provides protection from the wind.
And then in our infinite wisdom, we
Use hand labor, cut all that down,
so we can grow corn and soybeans.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Do what?
Feed pigs.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right.
Yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: So this
book, Tree Crops, is all about
using trees to feed livestock,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: and and it's
a system of agriculture that doesn't
require inputs, and rebuilds soil,
rebuilds ecosystems, No pollution, no
soil loss, no, you know, eutrophication
of water, any of the other problems
that we have with agriculture and best
of all, and the book was written by a
geographer who traveled around the world
and saw these different types of systems,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: he said that
every civilization that uses trees to feed
livestock, and there aren't very many.
But they were happy and thriving,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: and all these
civilizations based on grain ended up in
ruination, both financially and, you know,
really started my thought processes going.
You know, thinking about possibilities
like, wow, we've been doing things
the wrong way for centuries.
And
maybe we ought to think about,
you know, looking at nature and
how does nature do things and how
are we doing things different?
I know that
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: You know, if
you fight gravity, you're going to get
real tired and you're going to lose.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And
you can't, if you fight nature,
you're going to go real broke
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
and you're going to lose.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: you are.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: so, you know,
we just need to if we can harness nature,
you know, nudge nature.
I think, first of all, we ask nature,
what would you, God, what would you
have, what would you have us do?
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: You know,
what, what would you like us to do?
If we are in this for our
own selfish purposes, then we
probably are going to fail.
If, if we're in it as stewards you
know, stewards of the land placed
here by God, I think we're probably
going to have a better outcome.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And, and how
have we approached the land historically?
It's
What can we get out of it for,
for our own selfish purposes?
Obviously, I mean, we need to,
you know, you can call it selfish.
We, we need to live, we need to
make a living, we need to provide
for our families, and provide for
our, our fellow, fellow people.
But the manner in which we do that you
know, if we're after just a quick buck,
that's a whole different thing than
if we're trying to provide healthy,
nutritious food for our family.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: You
know, it's, there's, whenever you
get into the exploitation mindset
and greed, bad things are going to
happen, and bad things have happened.
I mean, this, the Middle Eastern grain
based agriculture, once it's spread
out from, you know, Abu Hurayya, which
is, you know, where they think the
Garden of Eden was located or biblical
scholars, archaeologists feel that was.
it spread out from there, I
mean, the Sahara desert is
only about 4, 000 years old.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
It's a man made desert.
And what caused it, you know,
wasn't, there wasn't people burning
fossil fuels 4, 000 years ago,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh.
Right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
but people were trying to.
plow up,
you know, cut down trees and growing wheat
instead of the vegetation that was there.
And so,
yeah, so tree crops, very, very
profound impact on my life and
completely changed the way I think.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: did tree crops
really cement that in your mind that, hey,
engineering's not for you and you want to
go into agronomy or, or a related field?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah, yeah so,
yeah, and, and as far as agronomy you
know, my goal then was to raise livestock,
and then I went to beef science class,
and they, we did a break even, know,
what's it take to raise a you know, a,
a calf to maturity, and, you know, here's
the expenses, and so now you'll notice 80
percent of these expenses are feed cost.
This is why we make you animal science
majors take a, an agronomy class or two.
Wait a minute!
All these animal science classes, all,
all the classes the animal science
majors take, make up 20 percent of the
difference, and the classes, the, the two
agronomy classes make up 80, something's,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
This, this pyramid's inverted.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: So it seems
to me, if I want to raise livestock,
I should learn more about agronomy.
So that afternoon I went and
switched my major into agronomy.
So I can raise, profitably
raise livestock.
And I still took enough animal.
I finished.
My undergrad, two classes shy
of an animal science degree,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: but
I did get an agronomy degree.
I got a certificate to teach science,
high school science, and so we've
got a bachelor's in that as well.
Then got a master's in agronomy and
rangeland management emphasis and
at a junior college for 15 years.
Went in private industry and bounced
around different, different jobs
within private industry seed business,
you know, working as an agronomist.
And then you know, a couple years ago,
kind of made the decision that I, I
really want to, to basically provide
information for lack of a better term.
You know, I, I, I don't
like selling products.
I, I like, I like helping people.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: It goes back to
that teaching that you did for so long.
You're teaching others.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Well, I
mean, that's, that's what I feel.
I always enjoyed the teaching process.
I did not enjoy dealing with
administration and, and administrative
duties and keeping up with state required
record keeping, which drove me just nuts.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: so.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Spent,
you know, 15 hours a week teaching
and 60 hours a week proven to
the state that I was teaching.
And, and so just mind
numbingly frustrating.
And so, but now I, I get to, you
know, I have clients that I come to
their farms or, or I, you know, I.
Basically come up with plans to solve
their, their problems, or at least what
I believe will solve their problems.
People have been very happy so far and
it makes me feel, you know, like I can
go give a guy some ideas that can solve
some issues that has been a thorn in his
side and he can sleep at night and he can
make more money and he can be happy and he
can make that money in a more ecological
fashion so that not just he benefits
but Everybody around them also benefits.
It gives me a good feeling.
It's something I really enjoy.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Now, now
throughout your, your teaching career
and your private industry career, did
you also have livestock on the side?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: For
the, yeah, pretty much during that
entire time, I did livestock one
form or another, mostly cattle and
had my my own land, my own pasture.
I was up by Cortland, Kansas,
until, gosh, wouldn't I move from
there, four years ago five years
ago, somewhere around there I had an
operation I bought an irrigated corn
and soybean farm and converted it
all into irrigated pasture, which is
the not the route most people choose.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Ha ha ha.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Most
people go the opposite direction.
They'll plow up grassland to make crops.
And I thought crops, I did
that for a few years and made
an incredible amount of money.
And gave 110 percent of it away to the
fertilizer dealer, the chemical dealer,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: the fuel dealer.
You know, there was nothing
left for me at the end.
This is ugly.
You know, I'm cashing big checks,
but I'm writing bigger ones.
And this would have been, you know,
early 2000, which probably the darkest.
I mean, we talk about the 80s, but I think
2000 to 2005 may have been the darkest.
uglier than the 80s, other than
interest rate.
As far as relation between crop
prices and input prices, I think the
early 2000s were worse than the 80s.
If we'd had, you know, 18
percent interest, it would have
been an absolute bloodbath.
You know, interest rates were pretty
low at that time, so we could, could
kind of hang on by our fingernails.
So I, I made the decision.
I said, you know, input prices
are killing me and I'm not making
any money with corn and soybeans.
I'm going to put everything to
pasture and everything's going to get
grazed and I'm going to build soil.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And
if, if nothing else, if all I
can do is keep my payments made.
Someday my kids are going to end up
with one really nice piece of dirt.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right, yes.
Leaving it better for the next generation.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah,
I said, I have a job on the side,
all I need to do is make payments.
And, and they're going to end up
with a little piece of black gold.
And I, I developed a really good grazing
system I was I had about a hundred pair
on 135 acres, 128, which were irrigated,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: and I was
grazing those a hundred pair 10 months
out of the year on that property.
And then, you know, for the other
two months there was corn stalks and
in abundance, big irrigated areas.
So there's, there's
corn stalks everywhere.
And so
it's, I mean, that, that's.
pretty productive piece of ground.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yeah, it is.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And I
had a sequence and my, my best
weaning way, I always did delay.
I, well, always, I, I moved into
delayed weaning rather than early
weaning, which some people preach.
I did delayed weaning because as long as
you can keep quality feed in front of that
cow why not extend that lactation period?
And.
and make her work a higher
percentage of the year.
I mean, you gotta feed her anyhow.
Now, obviously, a lactating cow needs
more feed and of higher quality than a
dry cow, but if you've got an abundance
of high quality feed, that's cheap.
that you can graze.
Now, if you're hauling alfalfa hay
to her, that's a different deal.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
no longer cheap feed.
But if you can have you know, high
quality green feed, you know, cover
crops and corn stalks or stockpiled novel
endophyte fescue all these different high
quality late fall, early winter options,
then there's really no reason to wean.
So I would, I actually ended up
weaning it at 10 months of age.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And but
even before that, I was having
at eight months, I was
weaning 800 pound calves,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: fairly large,
large frame cattle, but still 800 pound
calves in eight months and, and doing
that by keeping from the time they hit the
ground until the time they were weaned.
There was good quality green feed.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: They
weren't eating brown stuff.
They were eating green that entire time.
So it took And the secret to that
is, is I had multiple pasture types.
I had cool season pastures,
you know, cool season grasses.
I had warm season grass
pastures, I had annual pastures,
summer annuals, winter annuals,
crop residues.
I had all these different things, all
sequenced so that the animals moved to
what was good at that point in time.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And
so, and everything was able to be
rested during critical periods.
So that there are times where severe
grazing is extremely detrimental
to a plant and there are times
where severe grazing is not.
And so if you know when those periods
are, you can, you can put a mob of cattle
out there for a short period of time.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
Doesn't hurt the grass at all.
You know, if you take it down to
bare dirt, obviously it does, but
there are times when the grass
is more resilient than others.
So if you, if you know those times when
you need to rest, when you, when you
can when the optimum nutrition periods
are, when the times where grazing is
not detrimental and you, you can, it's
pretty amazing what you can accomplish.
So, you know, 100 pair on 135 acres and
doing that for 10 months out of the year.
Yeah, that's, and you know,
the normal stocking rate in the
area from six to eight acres of
native grass for five months.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: A
couple months of corn stalks
and then four months of hay.
That was normal.
And you know, so, you know, they're
six to eight acres for five months.
You know, that's in 1.
2 to 1.
6 acres per acre.
per pair per month.
And I was doing that
for essentially a year.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And so,
you know, I was 10 to 12 times
the normal, the area stock area.
Now I had irrigation for two
months out of the year, still less
than two months out of the year.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah,
yeah, but so you had irrigation, but
you only had enough for two months
out of the year to use it Which
being in
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: the
water was delivered down the canal.
And the water deliveries were based on the
assumption that everybody's growing corn.
So
corn tasseled, they
started delivering water.
And when the corn, you know, began to dent
or black layer, they'd shut the water off.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And so I
could water most years July and August.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Which
is very helpful, obviously.
That's
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, Yeah,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: usually
the times you need it most.
But
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: That's
when I would like to irrigate.
Yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: if you
had to pick two months to irrigate,
yeah, those are the ones I'd pick.
But you know it's If you're trying to,
you know, if you're dry at other times,
the year doesn't do you that much good.
It's sure better than nothing.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: it
was, there were times where
it was an absolute lifesaver.
But the funny thing is that once I got
my irrigated pastures really up and going
I really didn't need that irrigation.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: I
mean, I, I really did not have a
lot of a lot of drought stress.
At least not on my warm
season grass pastures.
Now, on my cool season grass pastures,
I still applied irrigation water.
But my I planted a field
of eastern gamma grass.
My book, Managing
Pasture, the cover photo,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
Oh
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: that, that's
one of my eastern gamma grass pastures.
And you know, it, it never showed
drought stress and, and trying to think.
I don't believe I
irrigated that for the last
At least not for the last
five years that I had that.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: oh yes,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
And then, maybe ten.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yeah,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: I went a
long time without irrigating that field
because it just never showed stress.
Now, the cool season grasses and the
annuals, I still, still irrigate it.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yeah,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: When I was
raising corn and soybeans you know,
we were originally, when I bought the
place, it had a 17 acre inch allotment.
Next year it got cut to five.
The first year I bought it, got cut to
five, which is kind of catastrophic.
Doesn't go very far on corn and beans.
And so I, when I went to pasture,
I went, Made two changes,
planned everything pasture, and
then replaced all my open ditch
irrigation with subsurface drip tape.
At, at, at one time the I was told
that I was, had the only subsurface
drip tape pasture in the world.
Yeah.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Dale, let's
switch gears just a little bit into our
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cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: We're going to
take a deeper dive into building soils.
And you, you were talking about even
your farm you had there in colony.
Was it colony?
No, it was in Portland, Kansas
that you had over a year.
You were able to build some soil there.
Before we actually talk about how should a
farmer build soil, what is the ideal soil?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, well, you'd
like a soil to do what you ask of it.
And what do we ask of soil?
Well, it, it has to grow plants.
It has to be capable of growing plants.
What do plants need?
They need moisture, and so the soil has to
be able to absorb rainfall and hold it and
supply it to the plant when it needs it.
And, and the roots have to be able to
grow down to a depth in that, and the
limiting factor to root penetration in the
soil is oxygen penetration in the soil.
So the soil has to be porous
to allow oxygen to diffuse
down to a depth in the soil.
Thank you.
And and the soil has to
provide mineral nutrients.
When the plant needs it, in, in the form
that they need it, you know, nitrogen,
phosphorus, potassium, sulfur, magnesium,
calcium, all those essential nutrients.
So, and a lot of people think of soil
as being, you know, inner particles that
we dump fertilizer onto and plants grow.
That's really not how it works.
Every nutrient that a plant takes
up's been probably passed through
a microbial body multiple times.
Thank you very much.
And so when we are managing soil
it's not so much about managing rock
particles, it's about managing microbes.
And, and that's, once you forget
the, the idea that you're managing
little ground up rocks and instead
you're managing microbes, then
you start to begin the journey of
understanding how to build them.
And that's really, you know, when
people talk about soil health, you
know, that's such a vague term.
What, what does soil health mean?
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: You know,
really, soil health is just like,
you know, having a healthy body.
It does what it's supposed to you
know, get out of bed in the morning.
You've got energy to do
things and free of illnesses.
So a soil health
you're, you're basically talking
about having a good functional
microbial population in the soil.
Cause that's really where
the action takes place.
Everything the plant needs, microbes
can provide other than moisture.
But even again, there are microbes
that help plants take up moisture.
And so, It does need to rain, but
your plants can be much, much more
resilient to drought if you have the
proper microbial population in the soil.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: So what I'm
hearing you say, Del, is I should have
paid closer attention in microbiology.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: I think
we all should have paid more
attention in microbiology class.
When I took soils class
undergraduate soils my professor
said, we're going to spend today
talking about soil microbiology.
and the reason we only spend a day on it.
Well, he said, this is the single
most important study on the planet.
He said, because this is
what life depends upon.
Soil microbiology.
All life on this planet depends
on microbes in the soil.
And so this is probably the most
important study on the planet.
He said, and I'm going to apologize
in advance, because we're only going
to spend one class period on it.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: because
it's not important, But because I only
know what I was taught, and I was only
taught about one class period's worth.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: That
I was taught about nitrogen,
phosphorus, potassium, and moisture.
And I can tell you what the, the
mineralogy of the clay particle
is, but I can't tell you anything
about the microbes in the soil.
This is the single most
important study on the planet.
And I'm like, wow.
So I ended up taking a
soil microbiology class.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Dale, talking
about the managing your microbes, How
does a farmer out here improve the
health of their microbes in their soil?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: you, you
improve the health of your livestock.
You feed them, you feed them,
you give them a nutritious diet.
You know, diet's everything for us.
It's everything for our livestock
and it's everything for.
And, and you shelter, shelter.
You don't let them get too hot and, and
you try to keep them warm in the winter.
And so you do that with keeping
a roof over their heads.
Have, have a layer of protective
crop residue on top of the soil.
And we used to think that microbes
fed primarily on crop residue.
Now the crop residue is
basically there for shelter.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: oh yes,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
Microbes eat root exudates.
And a lot of people didn't, don't know
this, but of all the glucose that plants
produce in photosynthesis depending
on the plant species, whether they're
perennial or annual, from 25 to 50
percent of that glucose is leaked out
of the root system and feeds microbes.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: oh yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: That
is what soil microbes, the
beneficial soil microbes that
we want, that's what they eat.
Now you think about, now in the
perennial ecosystem, those microbes are
being fed 12 months out of the year.
Because the roots are alive, you
know, maybe the tops aren't growing,
but the roots are still alive.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: But in our
annual cropping systems you know, corn
and soybeans, they have roots that are
alive maybe 4 months out of the year.
And, you know, the first month,
the root systems are pretty tiny.
So,
so we have covered our country with an
agricultural system that does not feed
microbes, but about one third of the year.
And so that's why our soils tend to become
depleted in annual cropping systems.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: You know
Dale, in my reading and my thinking
about it, I had never really thought
about it from that point of view.
You know, when we're farming ground,
I'm thinking about tillage doing
such damage to the structure, and
there's no protection on the soil.
I hadn't thought about it from the,
the point of feeding the microbes.
Because, like you said, there's
not living matter on there with
roots that are living to feed them.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah.
And, and, and so, you know, I'm a big
proponent of no till have been for years.
But when, you know, organic farmers
come to me and they say, well, I till
and my organic matter is going up.
Oh, you're mistaken.
But those organic farmers.
Even though they're doing tillage, they're
also growing cover crops for a nitrogen
source or, you know, for weed control.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And so
they're, they're tilling these under
and they say, well, I'm incorporating
that top growth into the soil.
No, that's not the benefit.
It's the growing of this.
It's the root exudates while
that cover crops growing, not the
incorporation of it at the end.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: It's the,
the root exudates while that cover
crop is growing that's really doing
the heavy lifting of soil improvement,
organic matter increases, and now
when people tell me that, I say,
well, just think what you'd have if
you didn't do all that tillage too.
And
so if you really want to improve soil.
You have to stop tilling.
I mean, tilling is destructive.
I mean, just, it just is.
There's no question about that.
I mean, that's, that's I hate
to use the term settled science,
but that's settled science.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And the
less tillage you do, the better.
And, but the second piece of the
puzzle is the elimination of fallow.
You want every, all of agriculture
really is converting sunlight into
something useful through photosynthesis.
And then
value
through every, through a chain of events.
And so, if you have sunlight hitting bare
soil, that is sunlight going to waste
that you can't ever go back in time.
The goal should be to utilize
every photon and put it to use.
And if you're not turning it into corn or
a cow or, you know, whatever, a papaya,
then it can be used to feed microbes.
That, that perform all sorts of essential
tasks for it, including just soil
improvement, and that's how you build
soil, and now if it's amazing, you read
a gardening book, I, you know, they tell
you, you know, get your wheelbarrow and
dump all this compost or whatever on the
soil and say, well, that's fine and dandy.
I was speaking at a conference one time
and the audience was mostly farmers,
but we had a suburban gardener.
And
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: I was
talking about cover crops and all this.
And she just says, I don't know,
she stands up and says, I don't
know why you farmers are so stupid.
You can't figure this out.
She said, here's what you need to do.
You just need to do what I do.
I go to the, the city dump and
I scoop out their leaf pile.
And their composted leaf pile.
And I fill up a pickup bed.
And I haul two loads, two pick up loads
every year and put it on my garden.
And I said, well, how big is your garden?
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And
so we calculated out and I
said, did the math in my head.
I said, now you realize that this guy
over here, that farms a thousand acres.
To do what you do on your garden,
it would take 250, 000 trips
to the dump with his pickup.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Said
number one, he can't possibly
do a thousand trips a day
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: for 250
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: and
there's not that much stuff there.
You know, you take the entire city
the dumps, all this stuff here,
it's, it wouldn't cover 1000 acre
farm with compost and you cannot,
you know, I call that the
musical chairs method.
You know, you're not really
increasing organic matter.
You're just moving it
from one place to another.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444:
it somewhere else.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: You're,
you're impoverishing all these
city yards to enrich a few gardens.
You can't do that on a.
at scale.
can't do it on a planetary scale.
If you really want to increase soil
organic matter, you have to do it by
capturing the sunlight that falls on that
piece of land and move it underground.
That's, that's through photosynthesis.
That really is the only way
you can truly Enriched soil.
Any other method basically
involves burning a lot of fossil
fuel to move stuff around.
And so that in a nutshell is, is
basically how you improve soil.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: So, so what I'm
hearing just to to feed the microbes,
you've got to manage your grass.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yes.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: And obviously
when we're talking about grazing,
we're not doing too much tilling, but
a lot of people out there are grazing
cover crops and and other things.
In my area, it's pasture.
So, managing those pastures better.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yes.
And so, like, your area and your, so,
let's just say that you've got Bermuda
grass and you've got tall fescue.
Bermuda grass is a warm, very
warm season grass, tropical grass,
that really photosynthesizes
about four months out of the year.
Now, the roots are alive the
other eight months, but you're
really not getting that pumping.
That big, massive input of sugar
moving to the roots and feeding
those microbes, except for about
four months out of the year.
So, and if your Bermuda grass
is grazed down to where it looks
like a, a gulf putting green,
even those four months are not.
So, there are a couple
things you can do there.
One is to extend the
period of photosynthesis.
by adding cool season
species into the mixture.
Now that can be cool season annuals
like cereal rye or annual ryegrass
or arrowleaf clover, crimson clover,
that can also provide nitrogen.
Or maybe it can be
something like alfalfa,
another perennial out there,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: that would
extend that period of photosynthesis.
And then you want to
leave enough leaf area.
After each grazing episode.
Now, if you're continuous grazing,
animals, especially horses, tend to go
back to the same plants over and over.
so you have, you know, bare ground,
and then you got big tall rank stuff
that's all turned brown because
it, it's become over mature and
no longer photosynthesizing and
is shading out what's below it.
You get this patch grazing.
One of the values of rotational
grazing is that you can manage how
much of that leaf that you take at a
time and so that, if you're grazing
below about four inches, you're,
you're letting sunlight hit bare soil
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: and that
solar energy is going to go to waste
and if, and then you manage the
rest, you want to have enough rest.
Because the first thing a plant
does after it's lost leaf area is
try to re establish those leaves.
It has to invest, usually some, some
root reserves, some carbohydrates,
to rebuild those leaves.
And if you graze those leaves too
quickly then the plant is, is in this
constant state of, Rebuilding, it's,
it's not moving sugars down to the roots,
so it's, it's not feeding microbes.
You want those leaves to be in a,
in a constant state of generosity.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
Yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: you
want those plants to be generous.
And they can't be generous if they're
on the brink of starvation themselves.
You have to have
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: they've
got to be healthy to be generous
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right, you know,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: you, you board
an airplane, they say, you know, in
case something happens, put on your own
oxygen mask before you put it on someone
else's, because if you pass out, you
can't help the person beside you, and
a plant, a plant that's on the brink of
starvation, because it has inadequate
leaf area, too much defoliation, too
much grazing, can't help itself, and
it can't help the microbes, and so
just, you know, You know, managing that
grazing, and it's not necessarily lighter
grazing, and that's a real misconception.
You know, I work with people who
have, just by managing the timing,
and doing rotational grazing, so
that they, you know, no individual
plant gets grazed too low.
But all plants get grazed and then all
plants are uniformly rested and come
back and then resting it at critical
times and then coming back and taking
half of it as dormant season grazing.
I've, I've got clients that have
increased their stocking rate five fold.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Increasing it that much will
make a difference on the
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: everybody
assumes that, oh, you, you have to,
you have to sacrifice economically in
order to manage pastures correctly.
And that's, that's
absolutely not the case.
You can actually increase your
stocking rate while treating your
grass better if you know how to do it.
And so, you know, the fescue.
You know, that's a cool season grass that
barely photosynthesizes in mid summer.
Does, if, if you go out into a fescue
patch in August, that ground is rock
hard because microbes reverse compaction.
And if those microbes aren't
getting fed, your soil gets hard.
And so, if, you know, I work
with some of my clients, we
are drilling summer annuals.
Like, sudangrass or sunflowers
or soybeans or even corn into
fescue during the summer.
Now, if they have to have an alternate
source of grazing during the summer.
But, it is absolutely amazing how
loose and mellow that soil becomes.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: And how
much more productive the field
becomes every year you do that.
I mean, you're generating more seed,
but you're making better soil as well.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
And so by doing that, you're
getting increased production out
of your fescue when it is growing.
And then you're getting this other.
Whatever you planted in
there to forage for mint.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah.
And I, you know, first time I saw this
practice, I thought, Oh man, that's
gotta be really hard on your fescue.
And I mean, back in the seventies,
first time I ever saw it
before I even went to college.
Oh, that's got to be on your grass.
No, no, take a look at this.
And I went down into a brome grass field
where we were doing this in September,
and I could take a brome grass leaf
and stretch it up and touch my belt.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: oh, yes, oh
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: that's still,
still, you know, three foot plus.
And,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yes,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
so it's like, wow!
I have never seen the fall
growth cycle of brome.
And this is not a seed head.
This is
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yeah,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: a hay meadow.
They planted this after that
brome was hayed off in June.
And so this was fall
growth cycle of that brome.
30 some inches tall.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: oh wow,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
I've never seen that before.
There's something to this.
you,
it's modifying the microclimate,
creating a cooler microclimate where a
cool season grass can, can grow without
being heat stressed, and adding fruit
exudates from additional photosynthesis.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Now one thing
going on that path a little bit more
Doing a pasture drill and putting some of
that else, some other species in there.
What if you don't have a pasture drill?
Is there some species you could
broadcast to get the same type of result?
I know broadcasting is not going
to be effective, as effective,
there's not, not everyone's got a
pasture drill or the capability to use
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: sure.
There are some species out of broadcast.
As far as summer annuals teff grass
is one that broadcasts really easy.
Crabgrass.
works great into cool season pastures
like that for a summer annual.
Now, having some perennial
legumes and forbs out there.
red clover, white clover,
your annual lespedezes, not
sericea, but annual lespedezes.
The ones
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: have
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: that,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: sericea.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: yeah,
the ones that cattle actually eat
not the, not the noxious weeds,
sericea and chicory, plantain are
very, very beneficial species.
You can get some diversity out there.
Now, if you continuously graze, you
put those into endophyte infected
fescue and you continuously graze,
well, you've got a plant that tastes
nasty, with a few scattered plants of
these really good things out there.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: You
know what's going to happen.
Animals just graze them out.
So, that's another big benefit
of rotational grazing, is that
every plant gets bitten once,
but not twice, and then you move.
And then you keep moving them around
so that, and if you can provide an
alternate grazing source in late summer,
you can allow all those legumes to
produce seed You know, give them a 60
to 90 day rest in late summer, allow all
those legumes to produce seed, and then
come back and graze them in the fall.
And, you know, every cow
pie is full of seed now.
and
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
sprouts new plants.
And so you can keep those legumes.
People say, ah, those legumes
don't grow in my area.
You know, they only last a year.
I said, well, are you rotational grazing?
No.
Well, that's why.
It's not anything unique about your area.
It's that you're not grazing in a manner
conducive to their survival and receding.
They're
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Right.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: getting rest.
They're getting bit off over
and over and over again, and
they're not allowed to recede.
And if you do that, you can maintain
a good balanced stand indefinitely.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Well, I will
admit that's one area of my grazing
management I have to do a better job
on, is giving some rest time there
for those legumes to go to seed.
You know, we, we used to have a lot
more vetch Than we do now, and I was
saving one pasture that had really
nice, I wanted to go seed in that
pasture and my neighbor sprayed.
And using an airplane and they got
like 400 yards over on our side and
killed all that vetch and clover.
I had been so I could
get it to go to seed.
Because we don't have as much
because I haven't been aware
of that on my management.
That's one area I've got to improve
is let those clovers, vetch,
go to seed so that seed bank is
really filled with seeds for it.
Because those cows, you turn them
into a pasture with vetch clover,
that's the first thing they go eat.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh
yeah, and why wouldn't they?
It's
low in fiber and high in protein,
and especially if they're in a
grass dominated system that's low in
protein, that's what they're craving.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Now, something I saw on one of your
videos, I think with in cat soil
for water, you showed a picture that
I thought was really interesting.
Canola, canola, where that'd
been growed, the root space from
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yeah.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: soybean after
that, and the soybean root used that
canola root path to send down roots.
I thought that was very interesting.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah.
So, like I said, the limiting
factor to root penetration
in soil is lack of oxygen.
Roots have to have at least 10
percent oxygen in order to grow.
And that's, that's pretty
much true of all plants.
some plants have evolved
mechanisms to allow them to grow.
root deeper.
And one mechanism is eryngima
tissue, like cattails, in,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444:
in the growing ponds.
Cattail roots, if you've ever taken
a cattail root, they're spongy.
And the cattail stem is all spongy
and, well, as long as any of that
green part of that cattail is above
water, oxygen can diffuse into that
and go down the, that spongy tissue
and reach the roots, which is how
cattails can grow in standing water.
Most plants can't.
Eastern
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: interesting.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: has arancuma
tissue in the roots, so it can
tolerate a lot of standing water.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Reed
canary grass has arancuma tissue.
Another thing is, if you understand,
most of the oxygen that's used
in soil is used by microbes.
Especially, and the warmer the
soil gets, the more microbes,
the more oxygen microbes use.
So in the summertime, we're
very oxygen deficient.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: In the
wintertime, however, when the soil
temperature is below 50 degrees,
microbes in general go dormant.
Cool season plants can grow below 50
degrees, even though microbes can't.
So, there's a window in there
where cool season plants, all of
a sudden there's oxygen in the
soil and there wasn't before.
And so, you you need to if you
have plants that grow, roots
between 50 degrees and 32.
When the soil freezes, you can
poke holes through those hard pans.
And then the next year, when those
roots decay, warm season plants can
use those passages to grow their root.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: So you can
just create a, a, a deeper rooted system.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Very interesting.
Dale, I appreciate you coming on.
It is time for us to shift gears
and do our famous four questions.
Cal: Kencove Farm Fence is a proud
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there's true value within the community
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That's why Kencove is dedicated to
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cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: questions
we ask of all of our guests,
sponsored by Kencove Farm Fence.
And our first question, what
is your favorite grazing grass
related book or resource?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, gosh.
You know, the, the tree crops
is, is a favorite of mine.
Even though it's not specific
to grass, it's the concepts.
Okay.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Jim Garrish's
books have been very influential for
me you know, management, intensive
grazing, kick the hay habit.
Those, those were very
influential to me early on.
I need to plug my own book, managing
pasture, but I don't know if I
can, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to
claim that as one of my favorites.
Yeah, so those were probably
the, the, the watershed books
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Grazing career.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Yeah,
excellent resources there.
What's your favorite tool for the farm?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: Laptop.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, yes.
I'm not sure we've had laptop as
an answer before for that question.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: really
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: we've had
YouTube and maybe more specific sites.
I'm trying to think back.
Right off, I can't think of it.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: yeah, I mean
the ability to access information.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: You
can make intelligent decisions.
Just, just critical.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: There
is so much information out there.
It's become a issue of making sure
you're finding the right information.
Yeah,
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: That's true.
There's a lot of conflicting information
there, especially in election years.
So,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444:
Oh, yes, especially.
Yeah, hopefully it's calming down now and
things can get kind of back to normal.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: have to
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: question.
What would you tell someone
just getting started?
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: You know,
The there's a saying that one of my
favorites, you can you can either
learn from others, you know, books,
reading, conversations, or you can
pee on the electric fence yourself.
And you know, educating yourself is
so much cheaper and takes less, less
time than making the mistakes yourself.
So, so learn all you can before
you do, before you do anything.
Self educate.
Best advice I can give
anybody in any field.
Constantly learn.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444:
Yeah, excellent advice there.
And lastly, Dale, where can
others find out more about you?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: You can go
to our, my website, regenerativewisdom.
com.
We have excellent material on there,
and we do on farm consultations, we
do speaking events, and we, we have
some material there on the website.
So, Dr.
Elizabeth Heilman and I that's our
company, and, and so, check us out.
See what we have to offer.
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh, wonderful.
Now you all had a school just
not too long ago that I really
go to, and I didn't make it up there.
Or do you, do you have one
planned for the future?
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: We
will do them in the future.
We don't have one in the works right now,
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: Oh yeah, yeah.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: but
cal_1_12-12-2024_173444: very good, Dale.
Appreciate you coming on
and sharing with us today.
dale_1_12-12-2024_173444: you bet.
Thank you very much for the time.
Appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.
Cal: Thank you for listening to this
episode of the grazing grass podcast,
where we bring you stories and insights
into grass-based livestock production.
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Until next time.
Keep on grazing grass.