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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;16;06
Aaron
Hey. Hey everyone.
00;00;16;09 - 00;00;17;08
Pri
Hey gang.
00;00;17;10 - 00;00;18;16
Aaron
What's up people?
00;00;18;19 - 00;00;21;09
Derek
What's going on, folks?
00;00;21;11 - 00;00;35;12
Aaron
Another week, another necessary. Another episode which we go in without a clue. Let's see what we can make the most of this week. We're supposed to have a guest on, but, we'll be we'll be having them on in a few weeks. So we're winging it today again.
00;00;35;14 - 00;00;36;12
Pri
We are.
00;00;36;15 - 00;00;38;29
Derek
I feel like there's been there's been some big news this week.
00;00;39;06 - 00;00;41;08
Derek
What's jumped out to you, Derek? Yeah.
00;00;41;10 - 00;00;45;26
Aaron
I mean, what situations are you monitoring? Yeah, exactly.
00;00;45;29 - 00;01;06;03
Derek
I mean, like, there's the off chain stuff, like the genius act passing through the Senate. Yeah, I thought that was cool. You know, the this is less cool, but, like, there's global conflict happening right now. Yeah. I can't even remember. It's been so many. It feels like years at this point, but I feel like it was Monday or Tuesday when, the Israel Iran conflict really started to kind of pick up.
00;01;06;06 - 00;01;26;14
Derek
I think the, the less cool news, but is interesting to note nonetheless, is just like Bitcoin continues to trade over 100 K and amid kind of, you know, panic and strife around some of like these, these international conflicts that happen which, you know, the more the more data points where, where that exists. I think the, you know, the.
00;01;26;14 - 00;01;27;16
Derek
More.
00;01;27;19 - 00;01;44;02
Derek
The more comfortable people start to feel as a, as an asset that trades a little bit more risk off than risk on which I think is cool. There's on chain stuff that happened. I think that's interesting. You know, Di dies, latest collection, Gristle Buddies is kind of the talk of Twitter right now in the NFT space.
00;01;44;02 - 00;01;45;16
Derek
Although what do you think of that?
00;01;45;16 - 00;02;12;05
Derek
Derek I like it. I, I am a fan. I'm, you know, I've collaborated with Dai before on his nameless drive collection during his Marfa residency at glitch, and I just I love his art. I love the way his practice has taken shape with crypto. I think Castle Buddies is like, you know, very much, and it's a very much in the line of how he makes work, which is very networked, very satirical.
00;02;12;05 - 00;02;45;28
Derek
You know, there's the thing I'm really appreciating is like, he's, you know, this inheriting this character, Alfonso, who's, you know, leading the charge on the collection, the collection velocity meant by like pulling in these ideas of, you know, from the PFP mania from like 3 or 4 years ago around floor price and volume and OpenSea screenshots. And he's doing it in a way that's so authentic to his creative practice that it's coming off as very fun and playful and he's just a very unique artist, and I really like his work.
00;02;45;28 - 00;02;51;09
Derek
And I mean, I'm excited that to see so much widespread appreciation in the space this week around it.
00;02;51;11 - 00;02;56;16
Derek
Yeah, it's great to see new, great works from established artists.
00;02;56;18 - 00;03;08;02
Pri
I know this week has been big for that. I mean, you know, between him and Tyler Hobbs, I feel like that's kind of nice to see some juice coming back in there with like, new work. I got to say.
00;03;08;05 - 00;03;13;11
Aaron
I was going to be snarky and ask why someone hasn't burnt a gristle. Buddy sent it to the grill yet.
00;03;13;13 - 00;03;15;29
Pri
Oh, I love that. That actually.
00;03;16;04 - 00;03;21;11
Derek
This is a this is a call to action, folks. Straight. Straight from Chris F here we go.
00;03;21;13 - 00;03;25;21
Aaron
Yeah. Go go go. Set your, scarce digital objects on fire, people go.
00;03;25;21 - 00;03;30;21
Derek
Set a couple thousand GS on fire right now. Chris F is preaching.
00;03;30;23 - 00;03;37;03
Pri
That actually would be a that would fit in with the whole kind of performance art of that piece, though. Honestly.
00;03;37;06 - 00;03;42;28
Aaron
It would, but it's certainly a top signal action and I don't believe are in the top single market.
00;03;43;00 - 00;03;58;12
Derek
Yeah, I don't think so. I did like I mean, you said this earlier this week, Chris, just on Twitter, you don't want to own echoes of things you already own. But what, you know, something new. That's the culture today that really resonated with me. I thought that that was a great point. Feels like some of the artists are kind of responding to it.
00;03;58;16 - 00;03;58;25
Derek
Yeah.
00;03;58;25 - 00;04;19;17
Aaron
Every once in a while I. I tweet some cranky thing out into the world and I get a little measure of feedback around it. And that was one of those I'm I'm just not that active. And a lot of it is because I see work and I can just pattern match it to work. That's gone before. And it's hard to get excited about collecting work.
00;04;19;17 - 00;04;42;04
Aaron
If you can just go, oh, well, you know, yeah, that looks interesting. But it also reminds me of these two playground pieces mashed together. Yeah. And then, you know, once that happens, it's kind of like, all right, well, I just took the wind out of my sails. And so it's not the funnest position to occupy, but at the same time, it's an honest one.
00;04;42;04 - 00;05;17;12
Aaron
And I think the NFTs face it as a response to, you know, the contraction after the bowl, I do think, you know, they we kind of had to circle the wagons. We got a little more insular, relied on rituals, performance patterns to carry us through. But what you know, well, that's a good thing as a survival mechanism. If it becomes entrenched, if it becomes calcified and that starts forming, you know, the playbook for how new work gets released or what new work gets made.
00;05;17;15 - 00;05;39;29
Aaron
It's in the long run. It's not a good thing because we're losing that creativity, the independent spirit, innovation, you know, that sense of novelty, and discovery, which I think was really super important and, and appealing to a lot of us who fell into this space, you know, that's kind of like what what kind of stoked or what what kept us in it.
00;05;39;29 - 00;06;02;08
Aaron
And so, look, I get bored easily. I, you know, a lot of this is just like my own personal failings, weaknesses, whatever. At the same time, we have a lot of work out there. We understand the catalog. And when new work comes to market, that simply does look like derivatives or echoes of old work. It's, it gets noticed.
00;06;02;11 - 00;06;12;29
Pri
People aren't having it anymore either. I don't think I don't think like people are interested or engaged at the same level, because I think there is a realization of that. You can feel it.
00;06;13;01 - 00;06;28;21
Derek
You know what I've been thinking a lot about? There's also you, because you mentioned the genius Bill Derek, which is it was which is kind of notable. And it seems like circle is a huge beneficiary of that. I don't know if you guys have checked, but it's like trading at I think like this is like 30 plus billion.
00;06;28;23 - 00;06;47;21
Derek
At least it was like yesterday or the day before. You know, there's this other bill coming out, the Clarity Act. And I wonder who will be the, you know, primary beneficiary of that. Like, will it be an Erc20? Like what? Like what benefits? Like what knock on effects will will happen. Assuming that that bill in some format passes.
00;06;47;23 - 00;06;48;28
Derek
You guys have any thoughts about that?
00;06;49;02 - 00;06;59;18
Pri
Do you think that if that bill passes, that would lead to companies going public and kind of generating value as a result of that pass legislation, or are you just saying more in general.
00;06;59;24 - 00;07;17;09
Derek
Just in general? Right. Like I just feel like, you know, these are kind of watershed moments, at least here in the States for for bringing this into the mainstream. The installation phase, as you like to say, pre. I feel like once that bill passed, people realize, oh well, like circle is going to be a really big business and it's kind of getting priced in the markets that way.
00;07;17;09 - 00;07;30;24
Derek
And I think once there's clarity around what a token is, what it's not, some of the DeFi projects or other projects in the space that there may be, like a beneficiary of that as well. Like, that's a that's the big question to answer right now.
00;07;30;26 - 00;07;53;10
Derek
Yeah. What do you I mean, what do you think? I think my initial I need to spend a little bit more time on the broader crypto bill here. My sense is carving out kind of like how DeFi operates is probably bullish for DeFi protocols on Ethereum, which has, you know, continued to be like effective products, but like have languished in their ability to kind of, you know, touch certain types of assets or bring value back to token holders.
00;07;53;10 - 00;08;05;07
Derek
And I think some clarity around around how these systems truly operate and like trust minimized ways is probably bullish bullish for those things. I will just say like, I think we all have assumptions on how this stuff.
00;08;05;09 - 00;08;06;04
Aaron
Should.
00;08;06;04 - 00;08;28;27
Derek
Be regulated and and given like how how it works and the the I mean, maybe like more the structural issue that I think the that you know this the clarity the clarity bill and the genius hacker about meaning to resolve is like, you know, these things can actually be amazing catalysts for, for unlocking new types of value here in the United States.
00;08;28;27 - 00;08;49;07
Derek
If we just think a little differently about how these these operate and where how they should be regulated and sort of pulling forward, you know, securities legislation, for example, from almost a hundred years ago and thinking it, thinking about these things in, in kind of like a first principles way in terms of how they touch either the CFTC or the SEC.
00;08;49;09 - 00;09;13;25
Derek
And so, yeah, I think, I mean, I need to spend a little bit more time here, but my view is it's probably pretty bullish for truly trust minimized systems that are that, that maybe operate a bit more independent from, from, you know, the the normal touch points of regulation that we have when humans are operating these systems, which I think is probably probably bullish, I think what but what's your sense?
00;09;13;25 - 00;09;14;02
Derek
Aaron.
00;09;14;09 - 00;09;33;18
Derek
Yeah, I think it is bullish. I mean, so the bill at a high level just provide clarity as to what does and does not qualify as a token. Sorry, as a security. And I think that for a lot of the projects, particularly the projects from the last cycle in, in DeFi or some of these other token based projects, you'd imagine that they could get a lift from this.
00;09;33;18 - 00;09;58;12
Derek
So if you are one of those heavily used, possibly trust minimized projects, you would you would think that this gives you kind of an opening to begin to move that project into the mainstream, you know, so a project like Uniswap, right, which is like widely used, it seems like it's humming along. You know, there's prior reservations about incorporating that into, you know, some service if you're more established business.
00;09;58;12 - 00;10;15;24
Derek
And I think those types of issues will go away after this. So, you know, maybe you see some lift for some of the core and why they use DeFi projects, which kind of helps to begin to clean up the Erc20 markets. Right? I think they've been a little bit flat over the past past year, outside of a couple outliers.
00;10;16;01 - 00;10;36;22
Pri
Like assuming this passes, though, you know, on the DeFi side, Uniswap, are they would that kind of open a door for like traditional banking institutions like the what they all know to start leveraging those DeFi protocols like is that I feel like that would kind of okay, it like I could imagine the lawyers of the banks being like, all right, cool.
00;10;36;22 - 00;10;53;22
Pri
Stablecoins is fine. And now we're going to also use ARB for lending and, you know, swap for whatever token swaps you need to do and liquidity pools like, is that or is that going to give access to that capital I'm assuming, yes. But just thinking out loud.
00;10;53;24 - 00;11;17;07
Derek
I think yes. Right. Which is kind of a kind of a big deal. Yeah. Because I feel like for a couple of years, that entire part of the ecosystem has just been in a holding pattern a little bit. All right. And so maybe and I don't think it'll be universal. Right. But I think some of the stronger projects there like like what you were saying with Sky maker a couple minutes ago, it's kind of like kicked it off of my mind.
00;11;17;07 - 00;11;20;21
Derek
I could see them really benefiting from that in some capacity.
00;11;20;24 - 00;11;23;11
Pri
Sam RWA man wins again, right?
00;11;23;14 - 00;11;29;08
Derek
Well, or maybe RWA man's wins are now going to bleed into kind of core to.
00;11;29;09 - 00;11;31;22
Pri
To the classic to.
00;11;31;25 - 00;11;37;03
Derek
Some of the more open, decentralized, you know, trust minimized protocols like like you mentioned Eric.
00;11;37;06 - 00;12;04;00
Pri
Yeah, maybe, maybe actually if anything, the outcome like we're talking about companies that win, maybe it's actually just retail crypto that wins. Like all of these projects that are like, you know, the core wallet users that we know that are very online, that are typically working like, or whatever, you know, providing liquidity and stuff. Maybe this bill just kind of extends that aperture and like, they actually benefit from that too.
00;12;04;00 - 00;12;28;04
Pri
And it finally becomes less boring again because you just have more capital flowing into the more retail uses of crypto. As opposed to just like banks issuing stablecoins, which is kind of the only news that I feel like I tend to hear about in crypto. It's like Walmart today is going to issue a stablecoin coin or, you know, whatever new commerce site like once it issued stablecoin, it's great, but it's also kind of like not interesting.
00;12;28;07 - 00;12;45;13
Pri
Whereas like, I think maybe the market structure bill actually bridges the Retail Board, to institutional capital and make things make things fun again, potentially like it could kind of kick off a consumer wave DeFi wave.
00;12;45;16 - 00;12;47;11
Derek
And make crypto fun again campaign.
00;12;47;13 - 00;12;57;05
Pri
Stuff on again initiative. Because I'm right now like bored to tears. I like literally can't hear about another like random company talking about issuing a stablecoin.
00;12;57;07 - 00;13;02;17
Aaron
A pretty we're in the exciting part as a boring phase. It's only going to get duller from here.
00;13;02;19 - 00;13;13;28
Pri
Well, what I'm saying is the opposite. I'm saying actually that this could make it. This could actually make it less dull. Just add, you know, brings in more players to the fun stuff that we know.
00;13;14;00 - 00;13;16;14
Aaron
Glass is half empty, glass is half full.
00;13;16;16 - 00;13;18;06
Pri
Yeah. Who knows.
00;13;18;09 - 00;13;26;11
Aaron
We don't. So how come you guys aren't that, hard vassal this week and you're stuck here on Riverside with me?
00;13;26;13 - 00;13;28;09
Pri
I don't know, I've never actually been. Have you?
00;13;28;16 - 00;13;31;04
Derek
Yeah. No. Never went either. Did you go there?
00;13;31;08 - 00;13;36;27
Derek
I've only been to the one. And I usually go to the one in Miami every year. But then again, not not to this one.
00;13;37;02 - 00;13;59;11
Pri
I will say that the digital Art mile programing for that looked pretty good. I saw a couple of like. And I actually it was weird. One of my friends who run the traditional just like a regular art gallery in New York was like, told me she was going and like, shared the programing. So I think it's actually I think like Tasos is putting it on, but it, it was like a really nice one day event, the digital Art mile thing there.
00;13;59;11 - 00;14;00;27
Pri
So we'll see.
00;14;00;29 - 00;14;20;06
Derek
Yeah, I'm pretty excited about I just like hearing over the from the ears on the ground like it, it seems like there's chatter and people are excited and asking questions and more and more folks are getting involved. So I think it's we I there's a few, a few dozen people, I think, from our little industry over there kind of spreading gospel.
00;14;20;06 - 00;14;24;20
Derek
So it's I think it's yeah, I think it's it's awesome. And, I've heard good things so far.
00;14;24;27 - 00;14;29;26
Aaron
And Derek, are you ready and excited for 100 degree heat in New York next week?
00;14;29;29 - 00;14;31;23
Derek
Yeah, I'll be out there. I'm excited. See you guys.
00;14;31;23 - 00;14;32;17
Derek
Let's go.
00;14;32;20 - 00;14;35;25
Pri
I know it's going to be great. Should we do it in person?
00;14;35;27 - 00;14;36;16
Aaron
We could.
00;14;36;16 - 00;14;42;07
Derek
I think I'm open. I'm definitely open to it. It would be, Yeah, I think it would be fun. We've only done that one other time in Marfa.
00;14;42;13 - 00;14;43;01
Pri
Yeah.
00;14;43;03 - 00;14;49;04
Derek
Logistically, I wouldn't be able to bring kind of my gear with me, so we'd have to figure out the mike situation. But I'm definitely. We got.
00;14;49;04 - 00;14;51;04
Derek
Extra mikes. We got extra mikes.
00;14;51;07 - 00;14;57;15
Derek
Yeah, that could be fun. Then in terms of the weather, what am I what am I expecting here, folks? Like how how.
00;14;57;17 - 00;14;58;08
Derek
It's.
00;14;58;11 - 00;15;00;05
Derek
Packing. It's going to be great.
00;15;00;08 - 00;15;07;02
Derek
Nothing better than a hot New York. Chris. The welcome, the heat dome. Welcome to the summer of heat domes.
00;15;07;09 - 00;15;11;15
Pri
Should we transition from talking to the weather and talking about, like, interesting thing. So, yeah, let's.
00;15;11;18 - 00;15;11;28
Derek
We should.
00;15;11;28 - 00;15;18;13
Aaron
Be. No no no no no no, let's cut that part. I should we should get into the minutia. The Mets bullpen sick.
00;15;18;14 - 00;15;22;15
Pri
Wow. We have a lot to talk about. Oh my God. It's going to be hot next week in New York. Wait, you guys want to.
00;15;22;18 - 00;15;26;19
Aaron
Maybe we can talk about the Pacers rotations.
00;15;26;22 - 00;15;35;09
Derek
I'm down the the OKC pulled their starters in the fourth to rest up for this next game I'm excited I'm happy. We got a game seven again in the NBA.
00;15;35;11 - 00;15;41;28
Aaron
Yeah. After Lord Stanley went down the tubes I was like, God, please give a game seven somewhere.
00;15;42;00 - 00;15;49;12
Derek
Yeah I'm I'm excited. It'll be fun. I have, Aaron. Guys, when I've been watching this finals post. Next exit.
00;15;49;14 - 00;16;09;06
Derek
Yeah, completely. I mean, I thought OKC would just completely rout, the Pacers, but I mean a they're super clutch and B they're so deep right. Like it's just seems like when the, the starting five of either the Knicks or OKC comes out the Pacers just keep on humming along. It's pretty impressive.
00;16;09;12 - 00;16;20;12
Derek
There's a grid there. It's been fun to see the, the celebs come out to to see the games in Indiana as well. I saw on our test in the stands last night. Reggie's right there on the sidelines.
00;16;20;15 - 00;16;27;07
Derek
I can't I can't get a Reggie as a as, longtime Knicks fan, I can't get into to record it.
00;16;27;09 - 00;16;28;08
Aaron
Yeah.
00;16;28;10 - 00;16;31;04
Pri
SGA for the title and MVP, am I right?
00;16;31;07 - 00;16;34;26
Derek
Wow. Did you just type that into your play?
00;16;34;29 - 00;16;36;00
Aaron
Oh.
00;16;36;02 - 00;16;36;14
Pri
I want.
00;16;36;17 - 00;16;38;19
Derek
It. Didn't you? Did you really?
00;16;38;21 - 00;16;40;11
Pri
No, no, it's our.
00;16;40;11 - 00;16;42;09
Derek
Sports analysts right here, folks.
00;16;42;11 - 00;16;43;17
Derek
So, and.
00;16;43;21 - 00;16;47;04
Aaron
This is why we run a four person booth. This is,
00;16;47;07 - 00;16;49;10
Derek
Chat GPT three.
00;16;49;12 - 00;16;53;01
Aaron
Over here. No, no, come on, let's not sell Trae short. Like that's awesome.
00;16;53;01 - 00;16;58;26
Pri
I'm pretty sure jeopardy does not have that kind of reset until it guys there.
00;16;58;28 - 00;17;24;22
Derek
I'll keep it. I've said this to some other folks I think in the past month. I don't know why, but the lines are starting to get more personality. I think they again like cross another Rubicon. Like I noticed just using it in cursor. It's like laughing now. I'm sure it's a completely mimicked and it's not actually laughing, but it's weird that it's starting to like have a little bit more human characteristics getting imbued into it.
00;17;24;28 - 00;17;30;15
Derek
I don't know, but it's starting to get a little weirder under the hood if you're paying a lot of close attention.
00;17;30;17 - 00;17;54;15
Aaron
Yeah, I don't need personality. I need, like, answers. My I can play with the yellow. And lately you can see Claude and I are both bumping up against limits again, large and really tough. I think the last couple of weeks where their rate limiting is so arbitrary, especially if you're using the more powerful models and like me, just like cramming a book in there.
00;17;54;17 - 00;18;02;05
Aaron
There are days where you can tell Claude does not have free servers and they'll like get you after for queries. And you're like, what the hell is this?
00;18;02;08 - 00;18;19;01
Pri
Yeah, I will say with like oh three Port Pro. While it is good, I kind of hate it. Like everything they like turn everything. It's like an over like you give. It's like giving someone work to do and they give you the most, like, overwrought, like charts and all this stuff. And you're just like, okay, what are you doing?
00;18;19;01 - 00;18;39;00
Pri
Like, I don't want this. And I also you also took longer than your other colleague just oh three. And this is like more annoying to read through. Like I'd rather just use oh three. It's almost like two. What's the word? So I was like, yeah, it's just overwrought. It's like too intellectual. It's trying too hard. I don't need that output.
00;18;39;03 - 00;18;42;13
Aaron
The oh three series leaves me Cold Tree. I'm not a fan of them.
00;18;42;13 - 00;18;47;08
Pri
I like, oh no, I think oh three just normal three Pro just pisses me off. But I like go three.
00;18;47;10 - 00;18;54;04
Aaron
I need like a little language in my my results. Oh three is to, sharpen to the point.
00;18;54;06 - 00;19;10;01
Derek
Oh. Really interesting. I find like cloud to be so lazy. Like, all it is, is just like, it's super overconfident now, like I was. I was working with it on something and it was like, this is the best thing. That's ever happened on the planet. I was like, I was like, chill out, man.
00;19;10;03 - 00;19;11;19
Derek
Slave. It was Aaron.
00;19;11;21 - 00;19;13;22
Derek
It really was. Maybe you are.
00;19;13;24 - 00;19;17;10
Derek
Maybe you are the genius behind the greatest fact.
00;19;17;12 - 00;19;21;04
Derek
Completely like boring code refactoring. Like it was.
00;19;21;04 - 00;19;24;13
Derek
Like, what is that? What a weather app is what you're building over there?
00;19;24;19 - 00;19;24;28
Aaron
Yeah.
00;19;24;28 - 00;19;37;18
Derek
Pretty much. Yeah. Like it was the it's just it's like over the top. Like I had to change the rules to be like, tone it down, buddy. It was like the most, like almost like borderline like arrogant in terms of its answers. I was like, damn.
00;19;37;21 - 00;19;46;13
Aaron
Aaron, are you building an NFT NYC weather app for next week? Are you going to have, pudgy with a chance of penguins? Yeah.
00;19;46;15 - 00;19;47;13
Pri
I do you.
00;19;47;16 - 00;19;52;15
Derek
Do you think that that's what what will, NFT NYC be like next week? Any predictions?
00;19;52;17 - 00;20;11;11
Derek
It's a good question. I, I think, you know, there's a couple of really cool things happen, and there's a people showing, that I'm really excited to stop by. There's a couple of I think it's have two Gallery is doing something. One of the nights I haven't been there yet. I'm excited to drop by that one. Yeah, I think there's just like it seems a little bit smaller this year, which I, which I always appreciate.
00;20;11;11 - 00;20;23;25
Derek
I think it'll be more more interesting conversations, more, more things to kind of like stop by and check out and spend more time with. And yeah, I'm excited to see you guys. But I think pretty to answer your question right there. And I think it's going to be a little bit more low key.
00;20;23;27 - 00;20;36;25
Pri
There's like a million events still though. And like I don't know if I can do all this, but yeah, that'll be good. I'm excited to see you. It'll be fun. Can I transition onto something that like this piece of news that has been, like shaking me?
00;20;36;27 - 00;20;38;28
Derek
What? What's been shaking? You.
00;20;39;00 - 00;20;44;22
Pri
The telegram founder saying that he's going to give his fortune to the 100 kids that he's fathered.
00;20;44;25 - 00;20;46;01
Derek
That's why is that shaking you?
00;20;46;02 - 00;20;47;07
Pri
That's, like, weird. You got the.
00;20;47;07 - 00;20;49;10
Derek
100 children or,
00;20;49;12 - 00;20;53;20
Pri
It's very like, I don't know, Genghis Khan coded.
00;20;53;23 - 00;20;54;12
Aaron
Okay.
00;20;54;14 - 00;20;56;03
Derek
So I'm here. I'm here for.
00;20;56;05 - 00;20;57;13
Aaron
Following the story. Yeah.
00;20;57;15 - 00;21;01;23
Derek
I didn't even hear about this story. This wasn't the top of my timeline.
00;21;01;26 - 00;21;07;10
Pri
I really gotta get my shit together on my timeline. You guys. You guys seriously haven't seen this story?
00;21;07;15 - 00;21;08;27
Aaron
No, not at all. I'm looking.
00;21;08;28 - 00;21;20;03
Derek
I'm looking at it now. So? So. So what's his. I'm. I'm curious because I just don't know what his real. Wait. I knew he was, he had sired quite a few children. I didn't realize it was 100. What's his relationship to these kids?
00;21;20;07 - 00;21;23;07
Pri
I mean, none, dude. Come on. He's like, literally.
00;21;23;07 - 00;21;26;18
Derek
He's like a donor. He's pretty much like a donor.
00;21;26;20 - 00;21;35;10
Pri
Yes. I mean, he said he started donating his sperm 15 years ago to help a friend. And then basically, he's.
00;21;35;10 - 00;21;36;13
Derek
Oh, so.
00;21;36;16 - 00;21;36;28
Pri
12.
00;21;37;04 - 00;21;40;18
Derek
It's not like he was actively participating. Yeah, it was he.
00;21;40;18 - 00;21;41;05
Aaron
This is where we.
00;21;41;05 - 00;21;43;09
Derek
Going was the FDA anticipates.
00;21;43;11 - 00;21;45;25
Aaron
Hiring or donating or donating.
00;21;45;27 - 00;21;47;27
Derek
Donating yeah I do this is an important detail.
00;21;47;27 - 00;22;12;09
Pri
He wants to put all this like I got it $10 billion fortune and give it to them. Thinking about it, dude, I'm like, okay, 100 kids, like ten of those kids are going to be like, with that amount of capital, they're going to do something amazing with it, probably right. Then you're going to have like at least 30%, just like, you know, blow it on PhDs and then like you're going to have some amount that just come up that are like hanging out, but like, that's kind of crazy.
00;22;12;09 - 00;22;13;28
Pri
You guys I don't know.
00;22;14;01 - 00;22;15;22
Derek
Yeah, I'm I'm reading it now. It looks.
00;22;15;25 - 00;22;37;02
Pri
Sorry. Yeah. It's like there like population and demographic shifts. Like I think about that I think about like Elon this notion of like seed spreading. I'm just like, wow, the telegram guy's really doing it. And he's going to arm this army of 100 people with like, I don't even know what's 110 billion divided by 100. I bet it math, but a lot of money.
00;22;37;04 - 00;22;39;12
Pri
Yeah, 100 million bucks each.
00;22;39;14 - 00;22;59;04
Derek
I'm looking at it now. It looks like he's, He's putting a 30 year lapse on being able to to to take, receipt of the inheritance, though. So, his quote is like, I want them to live like normal people, to build themselves up alone. Not to be dependent on a bank account. So, yeah, this is an interesting one.
00;22;59;10 - 00;23;03;02
Derek
Yeah. I mean, it's just like, I, I don't know what the term.
00;23;03;02 - 00;23;05;28
Derek
Wise is, so. Yeah. Why is it so disturbing to me?
00;23;06;01 - 00;23;24;15
Pri
Because I'm connecting it to this, like, larger thing of I think that there I mean, obviously I love tech people. I'm a tech person. I'm really interested in emerging technologies and new models, how people organize themselves. So caveat the shit out of what I'm about to say. But I do think there are.
00;23;24;17 - 00;23;26;02
Derek
Let's buckle up, guys.
00;23;26;04 - 00;23;50;20
Pri
I do think there are some like weird ambition and some of the leaders of the tech community around this whole, like, population issue. I think it feeds broader into the East versus west thing. Like I think that I think that there's just like and then I also think it feeds into the network state thing, which I still have not stopped, like obsessing over for.
00;23;50;20 - 00;24;11;16
Pri
I just feel like that's the SEC network state stuff is just going to continue. And to me, like, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of tech people come together, have like 50 kids and then all are in greener pastures and some like network stake where they where they just put all their capital together. I know that sounds like outlandish and crazy, but I actually don't even think that's impossible.
00;24;11;18 - 00;24;16;03
Pri
And I know this podcast is taking a weird turn, but I'm just telling you where my head's at right now.
00;24;16;09 - 00;24;48;08
Aaron
No, this is fantastic. This is so much better than the weather. Let's be real. Weather talk doesn't quite, get it done. The speculating about the progeny of other people. That's that's the sweet spot. And I get what you're picking up. I'm. I'm picking up what you're laying down. This is, like, from one lens. You can look at this as the sort of libertarian ethos of wanting their cake and eating it, too.
00;24;48;11 - 00;25;16;20
Aaron
We're like, oh, I want children. I want to spread my genes. I want to do the right thing, get the money. Where am I the rest of the way? Where am I during this 30 year lapse? You know that like that. That's a little. You can you can form all sorts of opinions around that, you know, and then the other thing you're talking about, right, is, yeah, this idea of like, tech wanting to feel like they're doing the right thing at the same time.
00;25;16;22 - 00;25;40;27
Aaron
Why why is it on this one person to have 100 kids and then eventually take care of them, whereas someone who wants to be a parent, someone who wants to be engaged with their children, can't afford to have a kid. And this idea that, you know, oh, someone else will make it up elsewhere, or, oh, let's give everyone a $5,000 stimulus to have a kid.
00;25;40;27 - 00;25;49;20
Aaron
Look, those solutions are just absolutely laughable. And, you know, there's sort of wallpapering over, a much larger fundamental issue.
00;25;49;22 - 00;26;09;08
Pri
Yeah, I think so too. And I also think, like people aren't thinking about democracy in the same way. They're kind of thinking about, I think, like capitalism for a while. And this is more like neo liberalism. There you go deep down this. But I do think it is related to this. Like tech, it is somewhat libertarian. I don't even think it's like libertarian fully.
00;26;09;12 - 00;26;35;23
Pri
I feel like it's sort of more like ego and and maybe like future of civilization energy as opposed to maybe like a political ideology. But maybe those two are related. I don't know, I think that there is something here, particularly with the tech community, where it's more about them trying to build the utopian society with the networks as well as, you know, combating demographic shifts globally.
00;26;36;01 - 00;26;52;19
Pri
It's it's a weird thing. I don't know, I need to think about how I want to phrase this, but there's something here that's happening. And I it's interesting to me a lot that a lot of these, like, successful tech founders are sort of all aligned on that vision.
00;26;52;21 - 00;26;54;17
Aaron
Distributed parenthood.
00;26;54;20 - 00;26;55;11
Pri
Yeah.
00;26;55;13 - 00;26;58;05
Derek
Yeah. But are they aligned career. They just independently. But I think.
00;26;58;05 - 00;27;04;06
Pri
That has maybe they're independent and they're not like a lot of like it's like a coordinated effort. But you know I think it's that it's how do you.
00;27;04;06 - 00;27;10;06
Derek
Think Elon and it's named Pavel. Like they've got like a little chat thread going.
00;27;10;08 - 00;27;11;09
Pri
No, no.
00;27;11;12 - 00;27;13;04
Derek
I'm gonna have more kids than you coordinated.
00;27;13;04 - 00;27;46;26
Pri
That's why I think it's interesting. I don't think it's definitely I don't, I don't, I don't think it's coordinated. But the societal impact of normalizing that kind of thing, you know, how does that cut against, like, this nuclear family tradition that we've if you actually think about it, is like relatively new. Like that wasn't even the case, like a couple hundred years ago where we had like the nuclear family, like maybe we go back into, you know, having more kids, having more of like, I don't know if the words like agrarian, but just separation and family and family structure, does that shift?
00;27;46;26 - 00;27;50;24
Pri
I don't know, really what I'm getting at here. I'm just kind of like saying stuff, but.
00;27;50;27 - 00;28;04;25
Aaron
Well, let's try rounding the picture out a little more. How about surrogacy? Because that's that's something that, you know, is available to women. It's used in tech circles far more frequently than it has been in the past.
00;28;04;28 - 00;28;29;20
Pri
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I feel like there's a lot of female tech founders, people who have a lot that many of them are doing are opting for surrogacy more in the tech community, I think, than other, you know, I don't it's not like you see that in New York, but in San Francisco, you definitely see a lot of women opting to do surrogacy as as a means to like, just continue their work and not have it like a major disruption in their.
00;28;29;20 - 00;28;40;08
Pri
But, I mean, at some point we're probably going to have like kids outside of the womb. I actually feel like we're not even that far from that reality. Like that could be in the next like 20, 30 years.
00;28;40;10 - 00;28;47;14
Aaron
Finally, we bring this back to Ethereum and get some of Vitalik coded thoughts around children.
00;28;47;17 - 00;28;54;27
Pri
Yeah, I know, I, I don't know, I'm go with this conversation should but we can move on I feel like I need to like brainstorm this.
00;28;54;29 - 00;29;07;26
Aaron
Look I'll, I'll say as someone who's a parent, two is more than enough. Excuse. It's just like, no thanks, I don't need I don't I don't need to like, you know, start playing zone defense here. No two twos. Good.
00;29;08;03 - 00;29;34;19
Derek
Maybe create something that will happen. You know, if there's more widespread automation that's more productivity that. Yeah. Like it's more productivity. More productivity tends to equate to well you know maybe that does open the aperture for some of those more traditional structures that maybe some folks are craving. So maybe just they're ahead of the curve. And everybody. Well, well
00;29;34;22 - 00;29;36;04
Pri
Well that's what I'm wondering are they are.
00;29;36;06 - 00;29;37;23
Derek
Brands of 100 children. Yeah.
00;29;37;23 - 00;29;48;01
Pri
Like are they. But you basically said like the opposite just now you're like, yeah, well, if we have AI like maybe people want to go more to the traditional structures, but this is like, I would say, a nontraditional structure.
00;29;48;04 - 00;29;53;16
Aaron
Nothing's more the traditional than having a fleet of, robotic governesses and and nannies.
00;29;53;18 - 00;29;55;25
Pri
Yeah. Oh my God. My.
00;29;55;27 - 00;30;03;17
Aaron
Aaron, what sort of soft thumb strength would you allow your, robot child to zero?
00;30;03;19 - 00;30;10;16
Derek
Come on. That. That's a terrifying thought, but I'm sure in like, 50 years, that will probably be the case.
00;30;10;19 - 00;30;12;11
Aaron
50. I'll go with 25.
00;30;12;14 - 00;30;17;06
Derek
You think that fast till we get, like, ambulatory Jetsons, like robots?
00;30;17;08 - 00;30;25;13
Aaron
I know I'm saying, like, 25 years until the technically trust, robots to care and raise their children.
00;30;25;16 - 00;30;27;13
Pri
I feel like sooner than that, I hope so.
00;30;27;16 - 00;30;30;19
Aaron
You hope so? You're excited for this?
00;30;30;21 - 00;30;31;26
Pri
I'm pumped.
00;30;31;29 - 00;30;39;23
Derek
It does feel like some of those, like, 1950s, like Jetsons, like visions are, are coming, are finally coming to fruition.
00;30;39;25 - 00;30;42;22
Pri
Okay. So should we move on? What other news is out there? We don't need it, I feel.
00;30;42;23 - 00;30;45;03
Derek
What else is haunting you? Pray. What else is haunting it?
00;30;45;04 - 00;30;48;13
Pri
We go just like, dude, what the fuck? But,
00;30;48;15 - 00;30;51;14
Derek
It's a good question. Derek is there anything haunting you?
00;30;51;16 - 00;30;58;18
Derek
I don't think there's anything haunting these haunting me and in the same way,
00;30;58;20 - 00;31;04;00
Derek
Hey, Chris, is there anything haunting you this week? Or maybe that's how we should start the show every week?
00;31;04;01 - 00;31;05;15
Aaron
Or. What are you haunted by?
00;31;05;17 - 00;31;09;03
Derek
Yeah, I'm haunted by the Mets. Five game slide, six game slide or whatever.
00;31;09;08 - 00;31;15;22
Aaron
Like we were due for every version of the mean, but, Yeah. I'm not thrilled with this recent run.
00;31;15;24 - 00;31;21;10
Pri
You're haunted by some Mets thinking I'm haunted by the future of humanity. Okay, cool.
00;31;21;13 - 00;31;22;29
Derek
I think I honestly don't.
00;31;23;02 - 00;31;27;19
Aaron
Different. Yeah, I.
00;31;27;21 - 00;31;47;23
Derek
I can't, I can't get involved in the drama of, of the telegram founders, you know, life choices. He's going to do it. He's going to do. That's great. Yeah, I think I think people will be fine. I hope they have a little bit more free time. Maybe that opens up the opportunity for for people to get where they want to go, whatever that structure is.
00;31;47;26 - 00;31;52;07
Pri
Soto did get a thousand hits though, so that's legit.
00;31;52;10 - 00;32;06;09
Aaron
What he really from so Free we got to talk about so I mean especially with, Pete's production off the charts, like there's you know, obviously there's a break in period, but yeah.
00;32;06;11 - 00;32;10;16
Derek
Let's double down on this. Tell us more about the Mets. Great.
00;32;10;18 - 00;32;20;22
Pri
The colors are blue and orange. I don't know if you knew that. And Cohen is betting big. So we got, got to see that through, you know what I mean?
00;32;20;24 - 00;32;31;02
Aaron
I feel you deeply. You're ready to be out with the seven man army. By the way, we're full on calling this episode the podcast about nothing.
00;32;31;04 - 00;32;34;16
Derek
This is truly been a podcast about nothing good.
00;32;34;18 - 00;32;47;03
Aaron
Jerry Seinfeld, we just need, like, a minor irritation to carry us through the entire episode. Why aren't we complaining about something over and over and over again? This is like the episode where we we can't find our car.
00;32;47;05 - 00;32;50;18
Derek
I feel like Prius Kramer.
00;32;50;20 - 00;32;55;28
Derek
She's got that. She's got that oil, the oil ball. She's inventing the oil ball.
00;32;56;00 - 00;32;56;10
Derek
There you.
00;32;56;10 - 00;32;58;07
Pri
Go. It's kind of an insult, but.
00;32;58;09 - 00;33;00;14
Aaron
Oh, whatever. No way. Dude, Kramer is the.
00;33;00;17 - 00;33;01;13
Derek
Best bass.
00;33;01;13 - 00;33;02;28
Derek
Character on that damn show.
00;33;02;28 - 00;33;05;03
Derek
Yeah, before. Well, I want.
00;33;05;03 - 00;33;06;02
Derek
To be Kramer.
00;33;06;04 - 00;33;11;17
Derek
On that show. He was great. I don't think we are going to condone anything any other. Oh, yeah, but post Seinfeld.
00;33;11;18 - 00;33;14;05
Derek
Yeah, we are not remarking on that.
00;33;14;07 - 00;33;15;16
Derek
Wait, you didn't like Kramer?
00;33;15;19 - 00;33;15;27
Pri
No.
00;33;16;02 - 00;33;18;03
Derek
He was your favorite. Were you George Guy?
00;33;18;05 - 00;33;20;14
Pri
No, I like, I,
00;33;20;16 - 00;33;21;19
Derek
Jerry.
00;33;21;21 - 00;33;22;11
Derek
Elaine.
00;33;22;14 - 00;33;24;06
Derek
Oh, yeah. Yeah. She's great.
00;33;24;08 - 00;33;26;09
Pri
I just love Julia Louis-Dreyfus, though.
00;33;26;11 - 00;33;27;29
Derek
She is pretty amazing.
00;33;28;02 - 00;33;29;15
Pri
Did you guys see Mountain Head?
00;33;29;21 - 00;33;32;18
Derek
I couldn't get through it. It was so bad. It was like.
00;33;32;19 - 00;33;35;14
Derek
I watched it for. What did you think it was?
00;33;35;17 - 00;33;35;25
Aaron
It was.
00;33;35;25 - 00;33;48;02
Pri
Very good. But there was like, a few, like, there were a few, like, pieces of dialog that I thought or like, like some writing was interesting, but like the actual plot, I think was like kind of lame.
00;33;48;04 - 00;34;11;01
Derek
Yeah, the plot was for sure, but like, whoever helped, like, the writing team definitely was plugged in to how I think, like the the conversation and like the some of the nuance around like the, the relationships. So that was was pretty entertaining. You know, given how close we are, I think we are to like the tech culture and, and tech and AI and some of like the themes.
00;34;11;08 - 00;34;12;17
Derek
I thought that part was pretty good.
00;34;12;20 - 00;34;21;05
Pri
Yeah, I think they like nailed the some of the right. I was like, okay. Yeah. Like I feel like, what's his name? Because he was the writer of succession as well.
00;34;21;11 - 00;34;22;23
Derek
Jesse Armstrong, I think.
00;34;23;00 - 00;34;24;19
Pri
Strong. Yeah, not Jeremy Strong.
00;34;24;24 - 00;34;27;23
Aaron
Does Steve Carell have a bunch of nontraditional children?
00;34;27;27 - 00;34;33;07
Pri
He might as well. He's like, based on, like, Peter Thiel, David Sachs. I feel like his character.
00;34;33;14 - 00;34;45;24
Derek
Yeah, he's like the patriarch of the group. He's, like, older than everyone. The revered elder statesman in the movie. He he I don't think they talked about his family at all in the movie, but you.
00;34;45;24 - 00;34;47;07
Aaron
Could. I turned it off.
00;34;47;09 - 00;35;03;29
Derek
There was like some scene where, like, him and the Ellen character were like walking in the snow, and he's like, Ellen character. When, when will my when will I be able to be preserved and live forever? And he was like, soon, soon. And I just was like, this is horrible. I'm turning this.
00;35;04;01 - 00;35;05;25
Pri
Yeah, that kind of stuff was like, corny.
00;35;05;28 - 00;35;33;08
Derek
Yeah, I agree. And like there's some cringey conversations. And in the movie for sure. I did think like that. They were all kind of like walking in the snow up to the summit, where then they then they do this competition during their annual retreats like these for billionaires and or three billionaires and one almost billionaire, and they write their net worths on their chests, and then they like the vision board, or like they scream out into the universe, like their wishes for like the next year.
00;35;33;10 - 00;35;45;16
Derek
And I thought it was, I don't know, I don't know what the right word is, but I thought it was it was entertaining, just like that. That whole scene I thought was really good, which came right directly after the senior describing which of that was totally cringe.
00;35;45;18 - 00;35;48;12
Pri
Yeah, that that was it was a lot.
00;35;48;14 - 00;36;05;24
Derek
I think you should write a movie about this dystopic future where tech elites are the Genghis Khan of the planet, siring hundreds of thousands of children. And then I think you should animate it using the, you know, oh, three or the latest Google thing.
00;36;05;25 - 00;36;27;29
Pri
I think the protagonist is just going to be like some like low level employee of like one of Elon Musk grandkids and just like grinding it out like in the future, just like managing 40 agents, having to tell them what to do every day, prompting them. And just like sitting there being like, how did I get here? And then like, that's where it opens.
00;36;28;01 - 00;36;35;08
Derek
I love it, you can make it. He can be a manager of the McDonald's agents just to really put a fine, fine pen on it for you.
00;36;35;08 - 00;36;37;26
Aaron
I'll do the soundtrack for you. That's my contribution to this.
00;36;37;26 - 00;36;40;13
Derek
Cause, which we build it.
00;36;40;15 - 00;36;43;17
Aaron
Dude, I got my own novel to worry about right now. I can't get enough. I thought you were.
00;36;43;17 - 00;36;45;29
Derek
Done with that, Chris. I thought you're done with that.
00;36;46;06 - 00;37;05;08
Aaron
I I'd love to be done. I'm, I'm up for another round of beta reading, and I will find out, but please, please, I would love to be done. I'd love to be, querying for agents if there are any literary agents out there, and our vast audience of hundreds, I need representation.
00;37;05;10 - 00;37;16;17
Pri
I have a friend who does like all of the PR for Dan Brown and Margaret Atwood and stuff. She used to work at, like a big publishing house. I'll send it to her if you're interested.
00;37;16;24 - 00;37;18;21
Aaron
Yeah, cool. That'd be great.
00;37;18;23 - 00;37;19;18
Pri
Let's go.
00;37;19;21 - 00;37;22;25
Aaron
Man, do you remember how big Dan Brown was for a minute.
00;37;22;28 - 00;37;23;04
Pri
I.
00;37;23;04 - 00;37;29;27
Aaron
Read all This Vinci Code. I definitely read Beyond The Da Vinci Code and then regretted it. You were a fan.
00;37;30;05 - 00;37;37;25
Pri
I you know, I was at high school, so I think it was like awesome to me. But like, I remember like, yeah, liking it.
00;37;37;27 - 00;37;44;15
Aaron
I, I feel like safe to that. We're past spoilers here. Open stay. Really had a moment back then.
00;37;44;17 - 00;37;45;14
Pri
Yeah.
00;37;45;17 - 00;38;04;28
Aaron
Or for those of you who aren't huge Dan Brown fans, Opus Day is sort of this, radical conservative Catholic order that involves a lot of self-flagellation, and they started featuring heavily as the bad guy for, a brief moment in time. There was definitely a TV show as an opus dates and going on as well.
00;38;05;00 - 00;38;19;16
Pri
I remember his book. I'm like, looking it up because I haven't. I forgot the name, but I love Digital Fortress by him. It's about like government surveillance and information and like ethical implications of the technology. But he was kind of early, like I was in 98.
00;38;19;18 - 00;38;21;10
Derek
And we haven't heard from him since.
00;38;21;12 - 00;38;22;24
Pri
Yeah. And like he.
00;38;22;25 - 00;38;31;28
Aaron
Was you, right, the Da Vinci Code. Why why would we need to hear from you again? I mean, like, aren't you just like. Yeah, nothing. I mean, Tom Hanks.
00;38;32;01 - 00;38;34;22
Derek
Tom Hanks starred in it. Yeah. Like, what else in it?
00;38;34;24 - 00;38;36;19
Pri
Tom Hanks it was Nick cage, right?
00;38;36;24 - 00;38;44;15
Aaron
Not no, no Tom Hanks. And was it the woman from Amelie or who was the female lead? This really is the podcast about nothing today, gang.
00;38;44;16 - 00;38;46;17
Pri
And I feel really bad for our listeners.
00;38;46;19 - 00;38;48;12
Aaron
Oh my God.
00;38;48;14 - 00;39;01;19
Derek
I'm having fun. I'm having fun. Just like riffing on random things. That's my culture. Catch up for the week. Any. Yeah. Any, any other culture news. Pray that you've got your eye on this week. Any any updates?
00;39;01;19 - 00;39;24;27
Pri
I mean, like on the internet. Yeah. I mean, there's like. I mean, this isn't culture, but like a that SpaceX rocket obviously kind of went around and also like, I've been seeing some of some of the footage from con that's like that big advertising fest right now that's happening. And just seeing like some of the big ads and the awards, they're seeing what heads it does really feel like.
00;39;25;04 - 00;40;02;17
Pri
No, there was like, funny, I was reading something and someone's like a venture capitalist is talking to the writer of this Substack article. And they were like, no one watches ads anymore. Like, it's like ads aren't even really reaching people anymore. It's all about just like brand and and vibes. And so it's like, interesting to see a lot of the big winners of those, like of awards, be more focused around brand and ideology and like mission versus like actually trying to sell a product they like, want to associate themselves with some sort of like subculture or ideology as opposed to like even selling the thing.
00;40;02;20 - 00;40;10;04
Pri
But these are all things I think, that we largely knew. But like all of the winners are basically like not even selling the core product. It's just like selling an idea of something.
00;40;10;11 - 00;40;13;26
Aaron
So I thought we got away from that. I thought we learned the limits of that. It's back.
00;40;14;03 - 00;40;29;14
Pri
I think it's back, but it's not in like the like d sense. I think it's like in some of it is, but some of it it's more just, you know, like it could be about like like just lifestyle and that kind of thing, like health, whatever. Wellness.
00;40;29;16 - 00;40;36;12
Aaron
Yeah. I suppose is fuzzier ways you can, have the same emptiness. Yeah. That doesn't involve your product.
00;40;36;15 - 00;40;40;15
Pri
Very guide to board. The board called it.
00;40;40;17 - 00;40;48;27
Aaron
Although we, we did have an anti guide devoid reaction as well as in the world of advertising which was the sale of the Lakers for $10 billion.
00;40;49;04 - 00;40;49;18
Pri
Oh yeah.
00;40;49;18 - 00;40;57;06
Aaron
Which in some ways is really, well a eyewatering number. I'd love Derek to write that down, but B it doesn't.
00;40;57;06 - 00;40;59;18
Derek
That feel cheap to you? That feels cheap to me.
00;40;59;21 - 00;41;05;06
Aaron
Well look, I'm a Boston dude, so I'm just going. Well, the Celtics were only worth $6 billion. What the hell?
00;41;05;08 - 00;41;10;22
Derek
Oh yeah, that that's fair though. I mean, the Celtics are not the the Lakers.
00;41;10;24 - 00;41;13;12
Aaron
By rate this by. Well.
00;41;13;14 - 00;41;37;27
Derek
So it's interesting I was actually just thinking about this the the when the the price tag was announced. I mean just for, for context like the last couple, the last couple of teams have sold the Lakers purchase price are saying is 10 billion. It's Los Angeles. So it's like a massive, massive attention market both for all of like the merch and stadium stuff, but then also for TV rights, and viewership.
00;41;38;00 - 00;41;56;00
Derek
The Celtics, as Chris mentioned, was 6 billion and then the Mavs were 4 billion, and then the Hornets were 3 billion and the Suns were 4 billion. Then all of this is like the last, let's call it like 36 months. All these like NBA franchises are selling the Lakers clearly the most valuable, in the NBA.
00;41;56;00 - 00;41;59;29
Derek
Maybe outside of the New York Knicks, given kind of like its unique properties.
00;41;59;29 - 00;42;00;09
Aaron
For.
00;42;00;10 - 00;42;05;11
Derek
Lakers to be worth a ton more than the next. Eric the Lakers like iconic. You know.
00;42;05;15 - 00;42;27;05
Derek
Yeah, the Lakers are definitely it. But like, New York and L.A. are just like prime time for for for like the IP and the rights associated with and and I, I do agree like there's a whole media network, an attention network built in LA around sports. And so the, the sticker price is, is high. It's almost twice as high as the next team that most recently sold.
00;42;27;07 - 00;42;47;28
Derek
I think that's the the more interesting question is like a lot of these teams were owned by very wealthy businesspeople and you know, I think there's like I don't I don't want to say the the NBA has had like this golden run for 20 years. It's just been like unassailable in terms of like in terms of sports and like the different sports, leagues that that exist.
00;42;47;28 - 00;43;12;13
Derek
It's definitely been it's rocketed to kind of like the number one spot on on many dimensions. I don't want to say like, this is the top, but I will say like when you start to see like very smart, wealthy business people who have made money buying low and selling high, starting to kind of get out of the game, especially someone like these more higher prolific families like that Mark Cuban and the bus family and things like this.
00;43;12;15 - 00;43;35;28
Derek
And the question just like comes to my mind is just like, well, where are we on the trajectory of these NBA franchises being good investments? And I think that's an interesting question to kind of unpack. And I don't have a great answer. But, you know, it's clear what the last couple of collective bargaining agreements that players are having, you know, more rights associated in these league in this in the NBA than they have historically.
00;43;35;28 - 00;43;58;11
Derek
And, you know, they're they're giving up less, they're getting more becoming, you know, operation heavy to to run these these organizations. I think the role of TV's value is a little bit more opaque in the world of AI and internet streaming and things like this, and like how how people consume entertainment and what type of entertainment they consume, I think is kind of an outstanding question.
00;43;58;11 - 00;44;20;03
Derek
And we're entering kind of a murky period there. And then I'll also just say, like, you know, I'm the younger generation who normally would have kind of like adopted into kind of their family sports team. They're opting to spend more time on TikTok and, and kind of create their own UGC and maybe shying away from kind of like the only game in town for which for a long time has been sports.
00;44;20;10 - 00;44;35;17
Derek
I don't know, there's something there's I guess where my mind goes is just like, where are we on that curve? I don't I kind of have to believe that we're a little bit further along than that. We are at the beginning for, for the NBA. So those are those are my early thoughts. So I've only been processing this for like a day or two.
00;44;35;21 - 00;44;56;11
Aaron
Yeah. No. All good thoughts and worth pointing out that doesn't include staples Center right. That AEG owns that whole development area. So this isn't like you're getting the Great Western Forum. Steve Ballmer maybe comes out looking good and all this. But I do agree with your point where, I mean, you see this in Boston with the Red Sox.
00;44;56;17 - 00;45;24;16
Aaron
You know, they've shipped the last three massive stars out of town with Mookie Bogart's. And now Devers is where, you know, John Henry is kind of you can see the arc of he's won his trophies. He's now managing. This is a business. And so it does really feel like sports franchises they're they're at that moment where so few people can buy them that in order for their value to keep going up, it probably becomes private equity.
00;45;24;16 - 00;45;39;27
Aaron
And, you know, if it starts getting private equity, then there's a different dimension of economics that come into play here. I it wouldn't shock me if maybe we get a couple more record breaking sales and then it starts to pull back.
00;45;39;29 - 00;46;01;27
Derek
Yeah. Markets are like a specialty. Fixed supply markets, they're they're all very similar to each other right. Like NFT markets and bitcoin markets and real estate markets like they all kind of exhibit the same properties, which is why I think it's fun to kind of like, you know, pattern to some of the other behaviors in some of these other markets, like these fixed supply markets, to the, to the NBA teams, for example.
00;46;01;27 - 00;46;26;16
Derek
But I think you're right. I think the class of buyers very clearly changing now, which then leads to, you know, a type of buyer that typically when they come in, they're they're they're what they're good at is less on growth and more on cost structure optimization, which then creates a slightly different product, which then kind of leads to slightly different outcomes, which then might lead to more churn.
00;46;26;16 - 00;46;51;08
Derek
And maybe there's a lifetime value associated with these teams that, you know, starts to, you know, diminish year over year as the this new class of buyer comes in. So yeah, I don't, I don't you know, obviously it's been like whatever 24 hours, 48 hours since like this has happened, this is happening. But I, I do think that like, it's an exercise that you probably want to run, for an NBA owner, like, what's my role in this?
00;46;51;09 - 00;46;54;17
Derek
The, the next leg of the NBA and my journey in that.
00;46;54;20 - 00;47;05;01
Aaron
Well, I guess what you're saying, in a roundabout way, is this could be the Steve Aoki moment for, sports franchise purchases if we're acquitted in this back to NFT.
00;47;05;03 - 00;47;09;04
Derek
It's definitely not the Flamingo Dao moment. And let's put it that way.
00;47;09;06 - 00;47;10;17
Aaron
Building it out still.
00;47;10;20 - 00;47;27;13
Derek
Still hasn't it's still hasn't had its full moment. Derek. And we gotta wait, wait a little bit for that. But here we go. It will. You guys. I still think they're undervalued though. No. Like, I just feel like these sports franchises are just going to be worth more and more. And like I do think basketball that 20 year run Derek, that you noted.
00;47;27;19 - 00;47;40;12
Derek
Completely true. But I don't know it feels like it could keep going for sure. Like I think I'm completely shocked that basketball is after football. Soccer like the number two sport in the world like pretty soon.
00;47;40;15 - 00;48;02;22
Derek
Yeah, I, I think that's been the trajectory. I think at a certain point you kind of have to assume unlimited Tam for that story to continue and or just like a different way by which to monetize your user base. And I could make an argument that, like, I don't I'm not saying it's a good argument, but I could make an argument that, like, basketball is the only sport people want to watch.
00;48;02;29 - 00;48;30;26
Derek
There are now multiple avenues by which to consume products associated with the NBA. It's able to jump to an international like basket. So basketball is already incredibly popular internationally. And the NBA is as as a hero. But that the sport is primarily in the United States and Canada. And so I think you'd have to maybe make some adjustments to how that league is structured to kind of like capitalize fully on a global expansion.
00;48;30;28 - 00;48;58;17
Derek
So teams in Europe, teams in Africa, teams, you know, whatever Asia like, I think you need to kind of and I'm not saying these are great ideas, but like to really capitalize on maybe that unlimited Tam story. You'd probably need to make some concessions on on kind of the strictness of how that league operates. Or there's something around AI or robotics or some one of these other larger trend lines that just like unlock something insane for the products.
00;48;58;19 - 00;49;08;04
Derek
But outside of those two things, I would say like they've exhausted kind of all of the, the normal levers that you'd want to see. I think here in the United States.
00;49;08;06 - 00;49;33;22
Aaron
Also, at a time where viewership down, there's complaints about the product. I will say, like just as a casual fan, the the TV viewing experience, I'd put it behind hockey and baseball and just ahead of football, just in terms of like how how frequently they chalk those things full of commercials and how much of the flow of the game is interrupted.
00;49;33;25 - 00;49;54;05
Aaron
And then, you know, the other issue, like, I was on our Monday night call and I had the game on, and I remember saying on the call, like, why do I have this on the first half? And none of this matters. So, you know, both baseball and hockey got to that position by changing the rules around the sport, tightening up the timings, like really like going in and honing the product.
00;49;54;08 - 00;50;06;03
Aaron
I don't think the NBA is there yet, but you're starting to see complaints around, you know, the the three point volumetric style of play not being as fun to watch.
00;50;06;06 - 00;50;07;19
Derek
Yeah I think those are great points.
00;50;07;22 - 00;50;25;08
Derek
I think that's true. But that seems correctable to me. I don't know, it feels like it. It is set up for like global expansion in a way that I think baseball hasn't worked fully, like even last night, like some of those epic plays, like I think they are like better clipped and shareable on social media than some, some baseball stuff.
00;50;25;08 - 00;50;51;03
Derek
The game time is like is a little bit shorter than than football or, or baseball, you know, minus like playoff games where things kind of crawl to the halt, a crawl to a halt in the fourth quarter, it feels like a little bit more exciting than than either of them to me. So I feel like, you know, like the past X number of years it's been the story has been a lot about football franchises, and it feels like basketball is kind of poised to continue to grow.
00;50;51;05 - 00;50;57;07
Derek
And like the three point thing feels like a correctable issue. Unlike the trap, I think the trap really kind of killed Hockey Crisp.
00;50;57;10 - 00;51;06;21
Aaron
Yeah. And they got and we got the Jersey Devils in that neutral zone trap. That was a dark, dark age. Unless you're a fan of the state in a trap.
00;51;06;26 - 00;51;11;06
Derek
But yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was even in Jersey then and it wasn't exciting like.
00;51;11;06 - 00;51;12;11
Aaron
No, no it wasn't.
00;51;12;14 - 00;51;19;08
Derek
Oh no. I look forward to the new movie coming out from you prey I generated about. Yeah. The one thing.
00;51;19;10 - 00;51;27;01
Pri
I heard is basically basketball could be children's basketball, maybe because it's like good for the social media era era.
00;51;27;03 - 00;51;33;09
Derek
I kind of think so. Yeah. And then with with your proceeds from that movie hit pre, you can go buy the Mets.
00;51;33;11 - 00;51;33;26
Pri
Okay.
00;51;33;27 - 00;51;35;21
Derek
Because you're such a fan.
00;51;35;23 - 00;51;44;04
Pri
Yeah. On that note, should we wrap it up as we talk about my my Mets. Yeah.
00;51;44;06 - 00;51;45;26
Aaron
The show about nothing.
00;51;45;28 - 00;52;14;21
Pri
The show's been a wild one, but, like, I don't even know what really happened. The last hour. But anyways, welcome to Net Society. It's me, Chris, Aaron, Derek. Today, chatting about the news I, crypto tech and more. Just a reminder these opinions are our own and not of our employer. So yeah, let's kick it off guys I don't know, I don't I think we're gonna lose some listenership from for this.
00;52;14;21 - 00;52;16;01
Pri
Should we like put this out?
00;52;16;08 - 00;52;24;00
Derek
I thought it was fun okay. Yeah. Cool. Well, stoked to see you. See all of you guys out there in New York. All right, crew.
00;52;24;03 - 00;52;27;19
Aaron
All right. I'll see you guys soon. Terrible chat game. Terrible.
00;52;27;22 - 00;52;35;29
Pri
All terrible time.
00;52;36;02 - 00;52;47;02
Pri
For.