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The Undercurrent is a biweekly news feature show written and produced by students from Michigan State University. Each episode explores multiple stories surrounding one central theme.
From WDBM East Lansing, this is the Undercurrent, a biweekly news feature show produced by students at Michigan State University showcasing our own student stories. Let's dive in. Hi there, and welcome to the Undercurrent. You are listening to season fifteen episode seven, and I'm your host, Anna Yarnall. To all the Spartans out there, something quite exciting is happening this week.
Speaker 1:February 17 through the twenty first, MSU is hosting Ethics Week. Ethics Week strives to actively involve students, staff, and faculty in meaningful ethics conversations, encouraging a campus wide engagement with contemporary moral challenges. Each day is dedicated to exploring different aspects of ethics within our current society, such as freedom of speech and artificial intelligence. To talk more about what the week will entail, I have two members on the planning committee in the studio with me today, Beth and Anna. So first off, thank you so much for coming in today.
Speaker 1:I would love for you to introduce yourself and talk more about your position at MSU. Hi.
Speaker 2:My name is Anna Laseige. I am the project manager for the MSU Ethics Institute. I've been in this role for almost three years now, and it's been really exciting to work with folks across campus and collaborate and, you know, just bring our minds together so we can do good work.
Speaker 3:My name's Beth Hammond, and I'm the managing director for the Center for Ethical and Socially Responsible Leadership in the Burt Road College of Business. Like Anna, I've been here for just shy of three years and love engaging with our students, faculty, and staff around how ethics intersects with their lives today, as well as our students' future careers.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's amazing. I am so excited to have you both with me today. So to dive right on in, what is ethics week all about, and why is it important to you?
Speaker 3:I think that ethics week is really critical, and I'm gonna give you a little bit of a longer answer. According to Google, so let's mark that with an asterisk in terms of, like, actual knowledge, we make 35,000 decisions every single day. So we are making decisions and choices at such a rapid pace. We're not even registering that we're making a choice. And so when I think about the point of ethics week, it's a chance for everybody who wants to engage with us to come and slow down and pay attention to the decisions that we're making because each of us as humans are making ethical decisions every single day.
Speaker 3:And we wanna just start that conversation and give our students and faculty and staff a chance to recognize that, to learn more about ethics and how it intersects with a topic that they're interested in. And also, how do we recognize when ethical decisions are being made? What factors do we need to consider so that each of us as Spartans can be making ethical decisions that we're proud of and stand behind for big and small things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would totally completely agree with Beth. And, also, for me, like, ethics week is important to highlight and elevate the good work that's happening across campus that might not get the attention that it needs. So our thought was like, why don't we just put all that in one week so we could really lift them up and so showcase these different departments that are smaller and might not have that opportunity and have conversations about ethics and get in a space where we can be curious and learn together and yeah.
Speaker 1:No. I love that. And you are so right. We are constantly making decisions every single day and life is so fast paced and I feel like especially for students, it is so go go go all the time that we aren't even registering all the decisions that we are making in a singular day. And so I love the idea of ethics week and I'm so excited to see how it goes.
Speaker 1:So each day of the week, multiple events are going on such as lectures, lunches, discussions, panels. So how much planning has gone into this event?
Speaker 2:A lot of planning and a lot of like collaborating with different people on campus, introducing ourselves to a bunch of different people and asking them, like, hey. We're doing this thing. We know that you're working in this space. Do you have an event that you wanna highlight? And we opened up the floor to any and all types of events.
Speaker 2:They don't have to just be a lecture or a speaker series, a lunch and learn. Like, one of our events is on the show, The Good Place. Kristen Bell, if you wanna come, we would, welcome that. But it's just a discussion. And so it was a lot of reaching out, doing our research, finding out who is doing what.
Speaker 2:And it's been a great opportunity to meet people across campus and kind of break down some of those silos.
Speaker 3:Yes. I agree. I I agree with Anna that the collaborations have really been critical and key in in just highlighting that ethics is happening on our campus. Ethical decisions are being made every day on every single college and every single classroom, and and just wanting to really, really elevate that and and help the conversation happen. Because I think once you start recognizing what is an ethical decision versus an just a regular decision, like, what are you gonna have for breakfast?
Speaker 3:That it stops being something you can gloss over. Like, once you start seeing it, then it it becomes easier to recognize. And I think that it was Tyler Schultz who was one of the Theranos whistleblowers who came to campus last year. He said that one of the things he wished he had done was practice making ethical decisions when they weren't so big as do I speak out against my boss when I'm an intern and start the conversation that really helped change the trajectory of where Earth Theranos was going. He wished he could practice that in smaller sized settings so that he was more practiced and well versed when it came to making an ethical decision when it was hard, when the stakes were really high, and that really stuck with me.
Speaker 3:And so when I go in and meet with students, you know, I say, how many of you in this space have been in an ethical situation? And a few hands go up, but majority don't. And then I say, well, how many of you have been involved in a group project? Obviously, every single hand goes up. And then I say, how many of you have been involved in a group project where somebody didn't pull their weight?
Speaker 3:Obviously, all of the hands stay up. Well, that's an ethical situation. Right? You know? And and because it's there's not a clear cut answer, there are multiple paths forward.
Speaker 3:Different people are gonna choose different options. But once you understand that that's the kind of space where ethics is happening, it just becomes a lot easier to see. So, you know, we are wanting to have as many partners across campus as we could during this space so we could reach as many people to come together and and talk about ethics. Because Anna and I get to talk about ethics and think about ethics all day, every day. And like she said, we really wanna help kind of just broaden the reach, and that was how ethics week came about.
Speaker 3:We were, you know, in a meeting planning a different ethics program, and we're like, what if what if we do this? What if we had an ethics week? It seemed like a good idea, and we said yes, and so here we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I love that, and that is so interesting. So many guests are coming in to talk to the MSU community, such as the KPMG director, a two time Olympian, leaders of the MSU Air Force ROTC. Can you talk about who all is coming in to speak at Ethics Week?
Speaker 2:I feel like you need to go with Kara. You are the most excited. It was, like, on your vision board, so you go, girl.
Speaker 3:Hi. Yeah. So our the signature event from the Broad College of Business perspective is gonna be the Warrington Lecture, which has been an ongoing ethics related lecture that has been a part of the Broad College of Business for a long time. But this year, we are featuring Kara Goucher, who is a two time Olympian. She is a New York Times bestselling author.
Speaker 3:She's an advocate for clean sport and for promoting and improving women's sport across the country, and she was a whistleblower. She spoke out against her coach who was a legend within the running community in part due to her testimony. He received a lifetime ban for coaching, and this all was happening within the last, I think, seven or eight years. So she is she's just an incredible human. She's very she's a very brave woman.
Speaker 3:She she's a distance athlete, so, you know, she knows what it is to go up against things that feel uncomfortable, but to do this against essentially an icon within the running community was a was a really big deal, and it was a really difficult, long process for her. But we're have invited her to campus. She's she's gonna be here on Wednesday, February 19. She's gonna tell her story, answer audience questions, and I think it's gonna be an incredible event. So it is open to anyone across campus to come and join us on Wednesday, February 19 from 05:15 to 06:15 in the Broad College of Business.
Speaker 3:You can find information on how to register online, I can send you reminders to make sure you come and join us. But I'm very excited to have her here. And like Anna said, when I was interviewing for my role, one of the things, the ideas that I had was how do we connect different pockets of students? And I thought, oh, you know, maybe bring somebody like Kara Gaucher to campus. So it feels like a full full cycle moment to me to that she's coming to meet with our Spartan students and and campus community.
Speaker 1:That's gonna be so so cool. Yeah. I'm going. I'm so excited. Perfect.
Speaker 3:I'll see you there.
Speaker 1:Yay.
Speaker 2:I think an that, I wanna highlight the leadership panel on Friday, February 21 at ten. We got president Guskowitz, interim provost Yaichko, vice president and chief diversity officer, Jabar Bennett, vice provost for university arts and collections, Judith Goddard, and associate vice president and chief audit and risk compliance officer Marilyn Tarrant to all agree to be on this panel with us, which, I mean, their calendars are really full. So this illustrates how important ethics and leadership is to them. And Marilyn Amy, assistant provost for faculty and academic staff development, will be moderating that conversation. And she does an excellent job of listening to the responses and pivoting her questions to kind of go deeper.
Speaker 2:And we know that these leaders really value ethics and making ethical decisions. So I think this is a really great opportunity to hear from all of them in the same space, and I'm grateful that they agreed. And so I think that it's gonna be a really good event and very insightful, especially during times like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Definitely. Can you guys talk more about the MSU Air Force ROTC, the KPMG director, and anybody you guys are really, really excited to bring in?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I can talk about the KPMG partnership that we have. It's gonna be an event on the intersection of ethics, artificial intelligence, and accounting, and what are the current challenges that AI is presenting, the opportunities that it presents within the industry of accounting right now. And we're really excited to have Charlie Murray come in, who is a director at KPMG. He's gonna be on the panel.
Speaker 3:We have Doctor. Anjana Sesurla, who is a faculty within the Broad AIS department. And so they're gonna be answering questions that are moderated by another professor, Tegan Dixon, which we're really it's just gonna be a really, I think, interesting, timely, and insightful conversation. Obviously, it's focused on the accounting industry, but I think that based on the conversations we've had getting ready for that event, it's gonna be open to individuals like myself who are not accounting experts, but I think it's gonna be really fascinating and eye opening to the role that AI is playing in accounting and the changes in what it how it's influencing the industry overall and what that means for people who are going to either be going into accounting or will be influenced by industry. So that's gonna be on Monday, February 17, from five to 6PM.
Speaker 3:Again, you can register online, so I can send you an email and say, don't forget. Come join us. But it's gonna be I think it's gonna be a really interesting way to think about ethics of and AI and accounting.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And the ROTC, Air Force ROTC leaders, we connected with them during our fall symposium this year. It was on Veterans Day, so they were kind enough to do a color guard performance. And as we were chatting with them, we were like, hey. We're planning this ethics week.
Speaker 2:Would you all be interested in joining this? So Beth and I have had a few conversations with them, kinda thinking about what the event would be. And we were like, what if you just talked about ethics at the military? Beth and I don't understand the military, and all the decisions that you have to make, and how it's not like just an individual decision, but like as a whole group, you have to think about values. And so they agreed, and so they decided it's gonna be kinda more casual.
Speaker 2:They'll just kind of go through how they examine values and responsibilities as leader and how that, like, intersects with the military. And I think it's gonna be really interesting because it'll provide an opportunity for people that aren't as well versed to kind of hear from them and ask questions. And so that event is on Monday, February 17 at 02:00 in the STEM building. And as Beth said, information is online. Hopefully, people can join us.
Speaker 1:The topics of freedom of speech and AI are main points being touched on during this week. And I would just love for you both to go into more detail regarding those and why you think they are such important topics to be discussed in today's society and within ethics week.
Speaker 2:Well, I can jump on the freedom of speech Yep. Event since I've been working with that committee. So we have a committee made up of faculty members across campus, kind of thinking about freedom of speech and academic freedom and how they're different because right now, that's a topic people are exploring. And so they have come together, and we are doing a learning community. And so during their learning community, during ethics week, we'll be thinking about making critical thinking and how do we actually do that, the action of critical thinking and walking through those steps and exploring that through, like, an academic freedom lens.
Speaker 2:And I know you like hear information and you're learning it in a class. And then how do you like have a conversation about that that's like respectful and sometimes you don't agree, but that doesn't mean that we can't still talk about it and just exploring that together.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love that. I am also a journalism student, and last semester I took a law and ethics class based on journalism, but it was just so interesting to see everybody's different opinions in the class and and not shut them down even though I or some of the other students might have not agreed with what they were saying. But it was just really really lovely to have that conversation and have it be open and just like a genuine nice conversation where I feel like sometimes in today's society we hear someone's opinion and we kind of, if it's not our own, we kind of just shut it down immediately and we don't let ourselves see their own critical thinking. So I'm so excited for these events and those topics of discussions throughout ethics week.
Speaker 1:I think
Speaker 3:what you're getting at, Anna, is a really important piece of what I see happening when I talk to students about ethics. And just with the nature of my job, I do spend a lot of time in, like, spaces with students. But when I frame ethical decisions, an ethical decision varies from just a regular everyday choice when three things are present. Like, you can clearly understand what are your goals in this space. Like, what's the point of being a student?
Speaker 3:What's the point of being a human walking through their day? What's the point of being a leader? Having the ability to understand what your own personal values are, because our personal values drive the decisions that we're making, and then what action are you gonna take. And when those three things are present, your goals, your values, and your action, that that's when an ethical decision has started to happen. And it also can be really important when you understand the values that somebody else is bringing to the table because you can say, like, that makes sense to me.
Speaker 3:I potentially, depending on who's at the table. I know you. I know that that value is important to you. I've seen that value in action. And it also can then when you're making a shared decision, if Anna, other Anna, has different values than my core values, she's gonna look at a situation differently than I'm gonna look at it, which can be really helpful to make sure that nothing is missed.
Speaker 3:And so when you're in a space where shared decisions are being made, it can be important to have that conversation to say, what are your top three values? What are the pieces that you're gonna be looking at? From a super simplistic standpoint, like, you gonna be looking at a decision and say what's best for the individual or what's best for the shared community? However, we wanna define community. Are you gonna be making a decision based on logic and intellect versus, like, emotion?
Speaker 3:You know? And again, there are no wrong ways to make these decisions. Those are just when you break it down, some easy ways to understand, like, the four quadrants. But it can make a huge difference in actually moving a conversation forward versus here's what I think, you think differently than me, and so one of us has to be wrong. Right?
Speaker 3:When it just becomes how are we looking at the same situation from different angles. Now having that conversation and doing that is a is a a challenge or can be a challenge, but it can help depending on how it's framed set up and framed to to do that differently. But I see our students asking those curious questions when someone else is coming at a situation from a different perspective or with a different value. Tell me more. Help me understand.
Speaker 3:What about this particular angle? It's just very cool and very powerful to see in action.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Definitely. I feel like when I was taking that class, it was so interesting because it was during the election, and everyone has their own opinions and feelings towards it. And when someone had a different opinion than mine, they would speak up and I feel like it was almost like a guard that would go up and I would be like, they're wrong. And then I was like, woah woah woah woah No no no no no.
Speaker 1:Anna, that's just that's not right. It is helpful to understand why they think that. And also, when we are making those decisions, like you were saying, Beth, trying to figure out what the other person's opinion brings to the table that yours doesn't, you know? And it's just it's really, really interesting. So
Speaker 3:Yeah. And it just it can change the decisions that are made, you know? And when I've gone in and done different ethics presentations with different groups throughout our college, including like the Student Senate group as they're a registered student organization. And it's really important, especially when you're a leader for a group, to make sure that you're not missing something. Right?
Speaker 3:Like, we all have our blinders based on what we think we should be doing. But having that space where you can say to somebody else, I trust you. How would you look at this? And have their perspective be completely different can just help everybody move forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Definitely. And then, Beth, earlier you were mentioning AI and how it contributes to accounting. But can you guys both just go more into detail about the AI conversations that will be presented during ethics week? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So the AI and ethics symposium, that will be from the perspective of, like, the digital humanities. So, like, the social sciences and how that plays in. So kind of different from the traditional, like, engineering or like computational sciences. So they're gonna be thinking about artificial intelligence and how it plays into the humanities, the arts, which is a different at least for me, I guess, should speak for myself. When I think AI, I'm like, oh, computers and robots.
Speaker 2:And so they're really going to dive into, like, student centered approaches to the use of AI and pedagogy and assignments and just, like, really digging into, like, the teaching and the research aspect of it from a social science lens. I should add in the theme of this symposium is fear, faith, and praxis, Artificial Intelligence, Humanities, and the Social Sciences. So I know that in person registrations are closed now, but people can still register online for that event. And I think it's going to really present a different perspective on AI.
Speaker 1:For sure. Yeah. And you touched on the arts and I think it is just so interesting how AI has kind of added itself into every little aspect of our lives. Like, we are living in such a digital age and every day there is a new digital advancement happening. But it is just so interesting to see how it is impacting every single sector and all these different careers in our society today.
Speaker 3:And it's changing so fast, Anna, that, like, you you know, ChatGPT hasn't even been around for two years yet, and it's already changed and evolved so much. And, like, places like universities haven't even figured out fully how are we gonna support our students in using this as a tool versus using it as a way to create content. It's just like, it just is the change is happening so fast, and there's always conversation about how is this gonna impact an industry? Is it gonna reduce the amount of jobs that are available? Or is it just gonna change what what work looks like?
Speaker 3:And so we knew we wanted it to be a part of ethics week. And I also think, like, in twenty years, are we gonna look at ChatGPT or Google Gemini or any of those platforms like Spellcheck. Right? Because Spellcheck is initially is is an AI feature, you know. Right?
Speaker 3:Like, so it's just wild to think how quickly things can change and what is this gonna look like in the future while we're still trying to figure out how is this impacting our days right here today in both good and bad ways.
Speaker 2:I think I wanna add too, like, going into that. It's changing so quickly, and, like, every day there's, like, a new advancement, new change. So if we like fall back on our values and like think about how do we use AI ethically and like, despite the fact that it's gonna rapidly change our values and the way we make ethical decisions aren't
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Just
Speaker 2:have to like make those choices. We have moved past this topic. But I have to go back and commend you, Anna, when you were talking about your class and how, like, if someone had an opposing beauty, your first response was, they're wrong. But then you, like, took that extra step to say, like, hold on. Maybe I need to hear them out.
Speaker 2:Like, that's huge. Like, to be able to do that. Like, we need people to do that. And like Beth said, like, we have different values seeing things from a different perspective. Like, that's all part of being a whole society and community.
Speaker 2:So I needed to give you kudos for that, so.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you. I really, really appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. Regarding AI too, I think, like, personally, I'm scared of it.
Speaker 1:Like, I see how helpful it can be, but also from a student's perspective, with ChatGPT, the response is so accurate and it comes so fast and and it's scary. Like like the other day, this this is going to sound so silly, so I'm sorry. But I was sending a text and I didn't know how to word it and I was like, who should I ask and see if this is okay? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1:And I was like, well, like who's going to respond to me immediately? And I was like, oh wait, there's that little AI robot on Snapchat. So I go and I'm like, hey, like does this sound okay? And they respond immediately with, that sounds great Anna, go for it. You send that text.
Speaker 1:And they're like, and and let us know how it goes. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, that is so nice of them. And then I was like, Anna, oh my gosh, like, you are talking to a robot. What is going on? So I I don't know, but I am I'm interested to see where AI takes us for sure.
Speaker 1:What is the overall goal of ethics week? And what do you hope the MSU community will take away from it?
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like the overall goal is just, like, to have these conversations and, like, create a space where we can be curious and explore together because, like, ethical dilemmas, ethical situations, they are ethical dilemmas, ethical choices because there's not one clear path or one clear answer. So, like, having the opportunity to learn together as a community and build connections and collaborate and, like, beyond this week, think back to, like, an event you went to and been like, oh, like, this person spoke, maybe I should reach out to them and we can do some work together, and it's kind of just opening a platform for conversation.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I completely agree. I feel like the world is changing so fast. 's expected from people in positions of power and as leaders is changing so fast, and so that we, as a university, need to do something different so that we can help produce the kind of leader that the world and our communities and we deserve and need. And part of that is having this conversation and having an exploration of ethics from an individual perspective, from a university perspective, So ethics week is just the beginning of that.
Speaker 3:Right? Anna and I get to focus on ethics and the intersection of different aspects of university life every day, and we're always learning new things. For example, something fascinating that I learned about AI and ChatGPT is that it uses a tremendous amount of water to cool the machines down because they are working so hard and so fast. So they're not it's not a sustainable model because it's using up too much water. Right?
Speaker 3:I never would have learned that. Not maybe not never, but that is not something I expected to learn if I wasn't doing this work and happened to be in a space where people were talking about ethical uses of water, and it came up. But but, like, having the chance to be in a space, like Anna has said, to be curious, to be open, to better understand what drives my decisions and also what drives the decisions of people around me, I think is just a really critical way to evolve and to grow as a human being in this world that is changing at a terrifying pace. So part of ethics week is to just have those conversations with people who we're comfortable and familiar with and people who are brand new to us so that we can start recognizing that we each of us in those 35,000 decisions we're making every single day are already making ethical decisions, and maybe we can just recognize that a little differently after ethics week.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I think it's going to be so important for the community to come together and just slow down and and have an ethical, meaningful conversation and and really think about the decisions that we are making because you're right. The the world and our society is changing so rapidly.
Speaker 1:It is very scary. And so I think that this is such a good time to to sit down and have those conversations that that need to be had and need to continue to be talked about.
Speaker 3:Yes. So I have a a few plugs. Check out the full schedule of events. We have multiple events happening every single day, Monday, February 17 through Friday, February 21. Again, they are open to anyone in our campus community, and some of the events are open to the public.
Speaker 3:So if you've got questions, feel free to either reach out to Anna or myself. I also wanna say thank you to the different groups from across campus who are partners with us, who have helped make that happen. And if you are listening to this and you would say, I wanna be a part of ethics week twenty twenty six, whether you're a faculty member or a staff member on campus or a student group who says, we're doing this really cool thing, reach out to us and let us know because we we are gonna have to start planning ethics week twenty twenty six probably in next week. Let's let's at least get ourselves through ethics week first. But, yeah, just know that we're wide open and welcome the opportunity to collaborate and to come up with new ideas for how to do this differently, bigger, and better the following year.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I want to shout out our fellow ethics center directors that we work closely with. So Justin from the College of Law, Sean from College of Human Medicine, and Brie, who is also part of the Ethics Institute with me, and Shriram, who works with Beth. So they've been key stakeholders in our planning work here. So I feel like we should give them some credit.
Speaker 2:Just kidding. They
Speaker 1:do their public. A little grunt. And then you mentioned that some of the events are going to be hosted at the Broad College of Business, and then some are also going to be at the STEM building. Where are some of the other locations that some of these events are happening at?
Speaker 2:We are going cross campus and online. We have some events in the law college, an event in the comm art college. Efrib is hosting an event, the library. So listed on our website is where they will be, and Beth and I will send you a reminder if you registered. So, yeah, we are trying to elevate different places on campus.
Speaker 2:So having our events all over campus helps that.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Yeah. And before my final question, is there anything else you guys would like to add or highlight about ethics week?
Speaker 2:So the inclusive Campus Initiative is also hosting an event online where we will have, like, panel of MSU experts as well as students that will be on the panel. So I think that that's cool. And And what is their
Speaker 3:event gonna be talking about?
Speaker 2:Oh, their event is titled What's at Stake? When ethics and activism intersect. So Oh. Yeah. It's gonna be a good one.
Speaker 1:Anything else you wanna add, Beth? I don't
Speaker 3:think so. Just come and join us. I know that you have everybody who's listening has one hour that they can come and and share with us. So pick a topic that's interesting to you, whether that's AI, whether it's the military, whether it's hearing from a two time Olympian. There are lots of opportunities.
Speaker 3:Events are happening morning, noon, afternoon, and evening, so it should work around any kind of work and school schedules. I know everybody's busy, but please give us at least one hour to come and learn about how ethics is impacting your life.
Speaker 1:And then for my final question, if you could describe ethics week in one word, what would it be?
Speaker 2:I feel like the word I'm going to pick is a curiosity. I'm hoping That's what I was gonna pick. We spend a lot of time together. But, we're hoping people come to the events curious, wanting to learn more. And like, feel like curiosity helps us grow.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think being curious is one of the coolest skills, traits that we can have as human beings. You know, like, ask questions, ask more, absorb information, want to maybe change your mind. And so I think if you come to these events just open, just like Anna said, it can be a really powerful space to just learn and grow. And who knows?
Speaker 3:Maybe you'll change your mind. Maybe you'll think deeper or differently, but you won't know unless you come. So come join us at ethics week twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1:Yay. Well, unfortunately, that is all the time we have for today, but thank you both so so much for coming in. I am so excited to see what ethics week is all about, and I will for sure be attending the events throughout the week. You guys have done such wonderful work and I'm so excited for you both. So thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Anna.
Speaker 1:Thank you. That's all for our show today. Thank you to our station manager, Ashley Land, general manager, Jeremy Whiting, graduate assistant, Delaney Rogers, and program director, McKenna Lowndes. And, of course, a special thank you to you, our listeners. See you next time on the Undercurrent.
Speaker 1:If you are interested in listening to past archive stories, check out our website at impact89fm.org. If you are interested in more stories like this, tune back in at 10:30 every other Sunday morning, and we will see you right back here. This has been Anna Arnold signing off as your host, and you have been listening to the Undercurrent.