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The Coaches Show takes a look at sports around Fullerton College
Mark Pavlovich 0:00
Welcome to The Coach's Show on 90.1 KBPK. I got Jake Rhodes, the desk editor in sports for the Hornet on my left. And, of course, you all know the little guy on my right, Ryan Osborn, here on the coach's show on 90.1 KBPK and guys. The biggest topic that we got to talk about right now because it came up in the NCAA. That phrase that everybody wants to talk about Ryan only at certain times of the year. And I'm going to go to you first. Title IX. It was brought up during the NCAA. Here we go again, discussions about unfair practices towards the ladies and their athletic departments.
Ryan Osborn 00:43
Well, not only unfair practices, but also just an unfair view of women's sports in general. I mean, you take a look at how different things are phrased when you take a look at men's sports versus women's sports. I mean, Jake, all three of us were sports fans. You look at the men's tournament in March Madness, everyone says whoever wins that tournament is the national champion. When you look at the women's bracket, they say they're the Women's National champion or they won the women's bracket. They don't say just national champion. It gives that air of inferiority, if you will, from just people in the media themselves. They don't treat women's sports as they should. They don't have the same attitude as they should because they dissect things down. Even the linguistics they don't create equal.
Mark Pavlovich 1:49
Well, and I'm going to put Jake on the spot since you said that because you are head of sports for the Hornet. You're the desk editor. So I've got to ask you, how do you treat it when a reporter walks in the door and says, Hey, I'm going to do it on football and gets that whole? But they don't mention the ladies and the sports here on this campus. How do you handle that from a media point of view?
Jake Rhodes 1:52
Well, I think, you know, our football program is equally important, no doubt. However, there is a lot of pressure to cover just mainly football and basketball, what I saw when I first took over. And I wanted to bring into softball, beach volleyball, women's beach volleyball as well. I thought that was more school wide, you know, that could bring everybody together. And that's what kind of we look for right now on the sports desk.
Mark Pavlovich 2:15
So what we saw with Jake said over here, but Ryan, it goes much deeper than that. Let's be realistic. You and I have been around Fuller to college for years, so we know the undertone over here. But we can look at a couple of other colleges that have things going on. You've heard about the Riverside story and how the coach for women's basketball gets treated by the men's coach over Riverside. Title IX is just being invaded over Riverside City College.
Ryan Osborn 2:43
Well, let's take it all the way back to when Title IX was introduced here in the United States. Mark, you go. You look at the last calendar year, just the NCAA decided that they were going to run a social media campaign celebrating the 50th anniversary of 50 years of Title IX. And what they decided to do is put up a social media campaign showing all the different women who made an impact in NCAA sports. The issue that I have with it is that when you take a look at what the NCAA and other organizations have done for women's sports, it's almost like they're kind of making sure that they have to take extra steps just to reach the equality that they should be deserved at the outright. If you're an athlete going into a college sports and you and even in high school sports as well as we've seen with Title IX and how it was introduced, you shouldn't have to take extra steps just to reach equality with the men's side. You take a look at 1978 mark, you go back to the tower exemption that was proposed to Congress where different members of Congress tried to get an exemption to Title IX that basically said anything sports wise that makes a profit would be exempt from Title IX, a ridiculous type of offer from a person in Congress at the time that was going or excuse me, that ended up being voted down, never ended up making it to a final stage, and rightfully so. But it's just another example from the very beginning until now where you see a lot of people who either don't treat it the same or take a look at Title IX and say, how many exemptions can we put in here? So that way we don't have to pay attention to this.
Mark Pavlovich 4:19
Well, let's realize too, let's get a very straight. Title IX is not an athletic Equal Rights Amendment. It's an Equal Rights Amendment to schools that get federal funding so that they will allow other people, if they want an organization and or a club. One of the places that they brought it up with is science and math for young ladies. And you can actually go into engineering. So if you had a STEM program on your campus or an SEM like over at cypress. Women weren't offered the same opportunities as men in these programs. And Jake, so everybody sort of looks at Title IX and thinks it's only about sports. It's really not. It's all about being equal rights for a variety of people.
Jake Rhodes 5:05
Right. And that still is being worked on today. And the Title IX has been involved at least since 1972.
I believe and clearly we're not there yet, as opposed to everything being completely equal. I love what you've been saying about not making excuses or looking for ways to like, let's make this out here in the open that it's equal. It should just be naturally done. It should be organic. And I think that's what we really need to work on here at Fulleton college and just across the country in general.
Ryan Osborn 5:33
Mark Jake, when you mention that you take a look at what you were talking about just a few moments ago, it's not just at the national stage where you look at it and you say, okay, this is an NCAA problem. We can kind of section it off to that or this is a club problem, like you said, whether it be high school or college, we can just section it off to that. It goes beyond that. I mean, it's even at the local level. You were talking about that Riverside City College, a situation that's going on over there where you have people who just very simply look at the situation in women's sports and or Title IX and they just say, why? Why should I pay attention to this? In fact, I have this air of superiority. You have to figure it out on your own. I'm not going to help you get there. I'm not going to give you the help that you need to get there, because it's not my responsibility. And frankly, I don't care. That's the air that it gives me when people don't look at Title IX, not only in the collegiate level but also in our society. You talk about taking steps to get there. It's you have way too many people, Mark, who look at it and say, you know what? Sure, Title IX exists, but do I have to care? No.
Mark Pavlovich 6:39
Well, I think the thing that's really sad about it, Jake and Ryan, is that we had an incident over at Cypress College where one of the softball players decided to forego a scholarship, come back and play at Cypress College. The game of softball. And when they went to the main organization and asked, what does she need to do? They were told they thought they had met those requirements and then all of a sudden, next thing you know, the CCCAA rescinded what they said and looked at the coaching staff, the athletic director and the dean and said, no, she's not there, she's not qualified. Same thing happened to a group of young men that played the game of basketball. Guess what? They were granted to play the game. She was not. And it took outside sources, be it media like yourself, to go on and nationally publicize this for them to all of a sudden sort of take a step back and allow her to come back to the softball team and do it over at Riverside. Hey, guys, there is no such thing as a club with coaches because we know that the women's coaches are not treated fairly by the men's coaches over RCC and we can get that if somebody says, Hey, you guys are making this up. No, I tell you what, all you have to do is go back to one of our groups, Sportsnet USA.net. Look at the interview with the head basketball coach over there for women's basketball and you will hear what she has to say. So Title IX is something that exists. But Jake, again, when you look at Title IX, it's once again women athletes are getting the short end of the stick.
Jake Rhodes 8:16
Yeah, it's just unfortunate. And I don't I don't know realistically where the next step is as it as opposed to the thing that I don't understand if or don't know if the administration is really feeling pressure. Like you said, to make these decisions on these movements forward. And this is unfair to the women athletes at our school, there just you know talented, skilled, great team, great people to talk to. We've interviewed, you know, the coaches here and players from different sports, and we really enjoy their company. And we just I just as a human, feel sad that they're not able to have adequate facilities and not just here and abroad.
Ryan Osborn 8:55
It's interesting the touches on facilities because that's been a hot button topic that you and I have talked to with coaches, not just here Fullerton, but around the Orange Empire Conference around the state as well. And it's not just about facilities. And everyone wants new, new, new, new new people are asking for adequate and that's an issue. Mark.
Mark Pavlovich 9:14
Yeah. No locker room, no place to change when you come. If you're a visitor. Hey, change in your car. Can you imagine us three riding together to a game and saying, okay, well, Jake, you go first. We'll make sure nobody can look in the window if you do that to young women on campuses, it's okay. But if you do that to the men, everybody comes unglued.
Ryan Osborn 9:37
Well, that's the thing. You know, Jake, I'm from a hockey background. Marc knows this. And for myself, when we started to go into the pandemic, you saw a lot of different adult league hockey. You know, participants who were basically told, hey, dress in the parking lot. Everyone hated that to the point where they started boycotting different areas and different rinks who were telling them to dress in their car. But yet on the college athletic side, there are multiple different administrations who are telling collegiate athletes to do the exact same thing. And expect to be okay with it.
Mark Pavlovich 10:10
Jake, I've got to ask you, because I know you've got a lot of talented reporters at the Hornet that are beautiful young women that know their sports, know their subject matter. Has there been that feeling or that grumbling when you're not writing stories over there about what's happening to young women on campuses, especially dealing with Title IX?
Jake Rhodes 10:32
There's definitely been some grumblings, concern and just really concern in the sense of looking for where is the equal treatment, where equal not better than asking for more just equal treatment of and coverage too. So I've been feeling, you know, I need to step up. Even we have like I said, we've covered some women's sports, but I pressure us to cover more and maybe that can bring the notoriety out and help them get, you know, better situations and better facilities. But there definitely is talk amongst my my staffroom about how things look on that side of the of outside the field.
Mark Pavlovich 11:05
Yeah. And for those out there that are transgenders are wonders about this too. Ryan, we know that there are at least five states right now that are going to break their sports down to men's sports, women's sports and coed sports. So that issue of transgender, which really nobody's brought up when it comes to Title IX, because that fits right there in the middle. Let's be realistic. Somebody's got to step up and do something to get equality for the women. You get equality for the women. Then you can turn around and people will start to see or look at for equality for transgenders.
Ryan Osborn 11:39
And the issue here as well, Mark, is the fact that currently you are still experiencing problems and issues, just seeing the women get to an equal side with the men. Now, you add in that additional opportunity for transgender people who are looking to just get that chance to go out and say, Hey, this is what I am, this is who I'm going to, you know, present myself as, because this is me. You're already having issues getting the women's side of things to an equal standing. Now, you're going to add this as well. And it's going to be difficult for administration schools all around the entire state of California to look around and say, hey, we're going to add this. But still, we haven't figured out our issues on the previous thing yet. But we're just going to add this because it makes us look okay. They need to be able to hammer out details before you start looking past and into the future.
Mark Pavlovich 12:34
Jake Rhodes, the desk editor for the Hornet here with sports. Before we let you go, before we get out of the subject matter, I'm just going to ask you how do you remedy this whole situation with Title IX?
Jake Rhodes 12:49
I think there has to be discussions to be had, and I think those discussions can't be run from by people of higher power being just Fullerton here on campus at least, and around the country as well. We can't run from the conversation. We have to sit down and talk about it and talk about what's fair and what's right and what's equal. And I don't think that's it seems that shouldn't be a challenge, but it seems to be one of what I've discovered and what I've been looking into.
Ryan Osborn 13:13
And I'll go off of what he was just mentioning right now. People have to realize that they have to get comfortable with the uncomfortable. It's something that you have presented to me from the time that I was a student here at Fullerton College. Corey as well, who's nicknamed Title IX here for KBPK and sportsnetUSA.net. People need to realize that uncomfortable conversations are the exact type of conversations you need to have. And if an uncomfortable if Title IX and women's equality is an uncomfortable conversation to some people in the higher ups, that's the exact conversation that needs to take place. When you also look at those conversations and when you have those sit downs, you can't just have, like you mentioned, the higher ups. Administrators say we're going to make a decision based on what we see is right. They need to make a decision based on what the input is from the athletes because that's who it impacts the most here. It's the student athletes who are coming to a school, coming to an institution to get a better education for themselves in their career, and also have another chance at continuing on in their athletic opportunities. If the feedback doesn't come from them, then it's useless info.
Mark Pavlovich 14:23
Yeah, it really is. Let's get right down to it, guys. It's all about politics. We have to finally get all the coaches on the same side. I know the two genders are out there. There's the male coaches that are going to say, Hey, we produce more, Our athletes are bigger, stronger, better, and they're great. If you watched both basketball tournaments this year, you will see that the number of viewers went up on one side of the spectrum, not on the other side of the spectrum. And it wasn't on the men's side that the viewership went up. Those bigger, more talented athletes are those young women that play the sports that we're now watching. And it all comes down to the administrations to be maybe is mouthy is Jake is Ryan is and I am when it comes to things like this Ryan I really do. I think all the deans and all the college presidents need to sit down and basically say, hey, if it's not a 5050 split, it doesn't work. It's got to be what's fair for one is fair for all, and everybody's got to achieve their dreams.
Ryan Osborn 15:26
I agree. Mark But when you also take a look at that, I don't think that it's something that when those deans, one, those college presidents sit down, it shouldn't be something that they say we're going to grandfather in over time. It should be cut and dry. You know what? This has been an injustice for the last few years. And if they realize it and look at their books and say, hey, we have not been issuing this correctly at a 5050 split, it needs to start now. It shouldn't be five years down the road. It shouldn't be an implementation process of ten years down the road. Get to it now, give people the opportunity to go out and compete like they should.
Mark Pavlovich 16:00
Well, for us we feel bad because we know Speedy, We know Crystal here at Fullerton, we know Cody over Cerritos, we got Brad Pickler over at Cypress College. We've got all the way down and see Lisa at Santiago Canyon and talk to her about softball. We could get in the basketball field if Corey Neyland was here and Jake, those are the people I feel sorry for because what do you say to a young woman who comes to your program wants get a great education, wants to play the sport that gets her there, walks in, takes one look at your facility and say, I can't go here.
Jake Rhodes 16:35
That's how you lose recruits and that's how you lose competitive edge in the field. Just the sports side of it. And we do feel bad because not only are these great athletes and these coaches as well are great. They're great people and they care about their athletes and they care about their students. And it shouldn't be this difficult to have this conversation and make sure things are 5050. We can do it for other policies at the district level and at the college level. What can we do it for sports?
Mark Pavlovich 16:59
You know, I'm the oldest guy here, Ryan says. This is with 50th anniversary. You're not close to that. You're not close to that. I am. And I've waited for changes all my life, guys. And I'm the one that could sit here and complain about not seeing changes. I feel bad for people on campus because you have crusaders like Jake on my left, a crusader like Ryan on my right, that they go out and speak about this. And you know what's really strange for me? There's no coaches around to talk to about this. There's no administrators to sit down with somebody like you and say, let's have that hard, not conversation. Oh, if you want to bring up the mud puddle, you can. It's okay. We don't care if we get a black eye At least somebody is bringing it out in the open. Or when you do the coach's show like you have in the past and say, hey, let's talk about the right and the wrong and let's find an answer to the right or the wrong. I don't know, is it going to take to you get to be 51 and then Jake's going to be a little old, older, or is this going to happen sooner than we both think it is, or all three of us think it is.
Ryan Osborn 18:06
It's a matter of who you end up having going out and having those conversations. If you have people who had the mindset like us three that say, you know what, change needs to happen and it needs to happen now, you're going to see that change start to start to evolve over the next 4 to 5 years, and it will start from base level. Go from those young kids like we saw at the in our time playing in or excuse me, broadcasting the PGF all the way up to high school, all the way up to college and beyond. That's where you start to see that change. If you don't get that turnover, you don't get people with that same mindset. We're going to be stuck in the mud for years to come.
Jake Rhodes 18:41
And also considering when we need if if this administration is not able to handle the situations and handle these conversations, I then we need to look to either students or people on the way there and who we elect and who we pick to be in these positions of power. And if it's like, say, it's former athletes that have been through this, they're probably the right ones to have this conversation with. So once they have the power to make change, maybe that's when we'll see some changes here on campus.
Mark Pavlovich 19:05
And do me a favor, turn around, take a little time out, go to the Hornet, see what Jake's got coming up there, because the stories that we're talking about right now as the desk editor for the sports Department at the Hornet, he's going to be digging and looking and you may find out something that you knew nothing about. Read it there. Or to the man to my right who's normally the host on the coach's show because, well, we've already caused enough problems over our years that he'll bring up those stories here. Guys, before we go, any last things to say?
Ryan Osborn 19:38
Yeah, I think when you take a look at overall athletics, I'll get one more word in about the linguistics of it all. I think that we should really, as a society drop men and women from the overall titles. It shouldn't be men's basketball. Women's basketball. It is basketball. It's not men's volleyball. It's not women's volleyball. It is volleyball. If you're a national champion or a state champion like Perry Webster, A few weeks ago, you also saw Orange Coast College on the women's side. It shouldn't be the women's state champion. It should just be. Here are the two state champions. So drop those titles, make it more normalized.
Mark Pavlovich 20:17
And for you, Jake.
Jake Rhodes 20:19
Just as Speaking for the Hornet and for the students on this campus, don't be afraid to fight for equality for these are for these women athletes. They need this. They need our support. And if we can't get it from the administration, then I guess we have to do it ourselves down here.
Mark Pavlovich 20:34
So you heard it from the two voices. When it comes to sports here on this campus and around Southern California on the community college level, Jake, on my left, Ryan on my right. And you know what? This is not the end. This is the beginning. If nobody else is willing to talk about Title IX and resolve the problem. Yeah, I've got a young man on my left with his staff, the young man on my right with his staff, that they will bring those individuals forward and they will talk about it and let, you know, be it on the journalistic side where you get to pick up the Hornet and read the story or on the video side where you get to watch it on the coaches show, Guys, I want to thank you because this is really a talk that's just the beginning. I'm going to say this is part one because I know you and I will talk about it. I know he's got more to say about it with your entire staff. You're going to find it here at Fullerton College. And you know what? For those of you that are out there looking and saying, hey, I do want to know more or you didn't touch, you can get a hold of Jake. You can go to the website and find out how to get a hold of him. And you can always get a hold of Ryan here at the coaches show. Guys, it was an interesting beginning in the Title IXand I hope to goodness that we finally get equality for the women, the transgenders, anybody who is seeking equality through Title IX. I hope you to come up with an answer to help that next generation. For Ryan Osborne, for Jake Rhodes. I'm the old guy and you've been watching the coaches show a 90.1 KBPK.