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Direct link to petition: https://ducks.quorum.us/campaign/duckfactory/
Direct link to petition: https://ducks.quorum.us/campaign/duckfactory/
Link to DU page and federal register link: https://www.ducks.org/save-the-duck-factory
Learn why Ducks Unlimited is asking waterfowl hunters to take action on one of the most important conservation issues affecting duck production in North America.
Host Dr. Mike Brasher is joined by Dr. Scott Stephens for an update on the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s ongoing review of regulations related to drain tile setbacks around permanently protected wetland easements in the Prairie Pothole Region.
Building on an earlier emergency update, Mike and Scott explain new information regarding the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services's Request for Information on determining drain tile setbacks for landowners on property where the Service owns wetland easements. They discuss a newly found document that states the Service's proposal to repeal the 2024 rule. They remind us why these easements matter, how Duck Stamp dollars have helped protect millions of acres of critical waterfowl habitat, and why DU believes maintaining these protections is essential for the future of duck production and wetland conservation.
Topics Covered
- New developments regarding the 2024 drain tile setback rule
- How wetland conservation easements work
- The role of Duck Stamp dollars in protecting prairie habitat
- Why prairie wetlands are known as the Duck Factory
- How drain tile can affect wetlands and duck production
- What Ducks Unlimited is asking hunters to do
- The importance of participating in the federal comment process
- Why this issue is considered a top conservation priority
Listen now: www.ducks.org/DUPodcast
Send feedback: DUPodcast@ducks.org
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Creators and Guests
What is Ducks Unlimited Podcast?
Ducks Unlimited Podcast is a constant discussion of all things waterfowl; from in-depth hunting tips and tactics, to waterfowl biology, research, science, and habitat updates. The DU Podcast is the go-to resource for waterfowl hunters and conservationists. Ducks Unlimited is the world's leader in wetlands conservation.
You're tuned in to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. Conserving wetlands, restoring habitat, and working to fill the skies with waterfowl today, tomorrow, and forever. From field tested hunting insights to the biggest conservation wins across North America, This is your front row seat to wetlands conservation in action. The DU Podcast is proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're wrapping up a hunt with your best friend or kicking back with your crew, Bird Dog brings award winning flavor to every moment.
VO:Enjoy responsibly.
Mike Brasher:Hey, everyone. This is doctor Mike Brasher. I am your host on this episode again, and I'm happy to be joined once more by Doctor. Scott Stephens. We're gonna be revisiting a topic that some of you might have heard about just a couple of days ago.
Mike Brasher:You're probably seeing a lot of information about out on the social media channels, and that is this, call to action to save the duck factory. Don't drain the duck factory. We recorded an episode on Monday and quickly turned that around and then realized that we left out some information. And so some of you may be hearing this information, some of this information twice. We consider that okay because there has been some new information that we've learned since we recorded that first episode, so you might get a double dose of it.
Mike Brasher:But I encourage you to listen to this episode again, and this is all about mobilizing our base to take action to let the US Fish and Wildlife Service know that we support this 2024 rule that establishes some pretty clear guidelines and processes for establishing drain tile setbacks around wetlands that have on them these conservation easements up there in the prairie wet up in the Prairie Pothole Region. So, Scott, welcome back. You and I have been doing a little bit of a a of a routine, visiting various outlets and trying to get the message out, trying to mobilize the duck country community, the conservation community around this very, very important issue. It's good to be back with you.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. Thanks. We've been on what I'll call the podcast tour. Right?
Mike Brasher:We have been on the podcast tour, and we will continue to be on the podcast tour for a little bit. We're gonna get right to this and remind people that the issue at hand here is a request for information that the US Fish and Wildlife Service put out last Friday, and that was Friday, July 24. They are requesting information on the process by which the US Fish and Wildlife Service does, establishes setbacks for drain tile by landowners on property where the service owns wetland easements. So we're gonna we're gonna go about this the same way we did before. We're gonna unpack the different terms there, easements, drain tile, the setbacks, and then we're gonna talk about what the worry is, and then we're gonna talk about how you can engage and let your voice be heard.
Mike Brasher:Scott, remind us, easements, conservation easements, generally, what are the what do we mean when we say easements, and then why are wetland easements up in the Prairie Pothole Region, specifically US Fish and Wildlife Service easements, so dead gum important?
Scott Stephens:Yeah. Good question, Mike. We will start there. So, you know, these these easements are in a category that are typically referred to as minimally restrictive. So that means that, you know, not all the rights are taken away, but just a limited number of rights are restricted as part of the easement.
Scott Stephens:And in this case
Mike Brasher:Easement is easement is legal instrument. It's like a legal document, legal agreement.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. These these agreements actually, in this case, end up getting attached to the title of the deed. And so if the land changes hands, this easement goes with that. So because these are perpetual easements, these stay with the title of the land in perpetuity. So the the specific restrictions on these easements that protect wetlands is the Fish and Wildlife Service has purchased the right, if you will, to drain, fill, burn, level.
Scott Stephens:Drain, fill, burn, level. Is that it? I think that's it. Four of them. Drain, drain, burn, level.
Mike Brasher:Burn, fill, and level.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. Yeah. That's it. So that's the restrictions. If these wetlands go dry naturally, they can be cropped, cropped through, you know, they can they can They can be hayed?
Scott Stephens:They can be hayed. They can they can do any other normal activity. They just can't drain in any way, and there's specific language in the agreement that the landowner signs with the service that says drain by ditching or any other means, direct or indirect. And that is a key phrase in my opinion in the legal document, and and we will continue to talk about that. But, you know, these easements in the Prairie Puddle Region, like, if if folks have tuned in at all, they've heard us spend lots of time talking about Prairie Pothole Region.
Scott Stephens:Really important region for breeding ducks. The most important region on the continent, you know, most highest abundance of breeding ducks, especially for species that folks are familiar with, mallards, pintails, blue winged teal, gadwall, shovelers, canvasbacks. Redheads. Redheads. The the prairies are where they go to breed.
Scott Stephens:The continent's ducks of those species come from the Prairie Puddle region. So that's why it's important. The wetlands are really the the magnets for the ducks to breed there because of the food resource it provides. So, you know, this is sort of the base of the food web kind of, you know, the the real base for breeding ducks as they go back to breeding areas. So that that's why those are important.
Scott Stephens:Just some history on these, you know.
Mike Brasher:Yeah. Because these aren't these aren't just any easements. I mean, this is a very special for duck hunters, this is a very and and conservationists. I mean, our audience, we got a lot of duck hunters out here, and and and they are a huge part of the what you're gonna talk about here. But there's other conservationists that have that have contributed to this as well, but this is a very special class of of wetland easements, and and what why is that?
Mike Brasher:What are those?
Scott Stephens:Yeah. So, you know, people that have been hunting ducks in The US since 1934 had to purchase a duck stamp, and the proceeds of the purchase of those duck stamps has gone into a fund to be used to acquire habitat for ducks. So, you know, starting in '34, the primary the primary tool that was used to get that habitat was fee tidal acquisition, you know, refuges, waterfowl production areas were purchased. But starting in the early sixties, the Fish and Wildlife Service received authorization to purchase these these limited conservation easements that that have these restrictions. So started negotiating with landowners that if you're interested in a payment, a one time payment, and you agree to to never drain, fill, burn level these areas, you know, that that's basically the negotiation, you know.
Scott Stephens:Payment in exchange for giving up the right to drain fill burn level. And so, you know, the the ballpark estimate that I got was that the the estate of these wetland easements is about 1,700,000 acres across the Prairie Puddle region. So Montana, North and South Dakota. Yep. US.
Mike Brasher:US Prairie Puddle.
Scott Stephens:Yep. So the states of Minnesota, Iowa, North and South Dakota, Montana, that geography. And that's where a a bunch of duck stamp dollars have been invested in these. You know, we we think that's a really good bargain for for duck stamp purchasers because, you know, with these easements, we we restrict and and purchase the right to really the key habitat features, and we we are usually paying less than the full fee title value. You know, if we purchased it outright in fee title, it would cost us more money.
Scott Stephens:So we're protecting the key features of the habitat, doing that more efficiently with the dollars, and, you know, this is a category, you know, once these easements are in place, it's like, those areas are protected forever, have crossed the finish line. We're focused on, you know, new areas that are unprotected to put in that bucket with these. So when the request for information came out, it's like, oh, wait. You know? Are are these
Mike Brasher:your that we eyebrows.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. Are these that we thought we had protected? Are they fully protected? That's what we're trying to make sure of.
Mike Brasher:That's right. You know, I I've talked about the the federal duck stamp, the federal duck stamp office, the federal duck stamp art contest. We've talked about all of those types of things on previous episodes. It has been one of my favorite topics because what I often say is is that of all the investments that a conservationist, a duck or waterfowl conservationist can make, there is very there are very few things that you can do that are more valuable, more impactful than purchasing a duck stamp, because 98¢ out of every dollar associated with the purchase of a duck stamp goes into that migratory bird conservation fund. There's a good chunk of that that is earmarked for expenditure in The US Prairies, specifically to secure grassland and wetland easements, and the language that has been used for over sixty years is that those are perpetually protected.
Mike Brasher:The grassland values are perpetually protected. The wetland values are protect are are perpetually protected. There are legal instruments that that guide that. These are voluntary agreements that a landowner enters into with the US Fish and Wildlife Service. There is nothing to not like about this concept of spending your money to permanently protect the most critical duck habitat in North America, and to do so in a way through a legal instrument that says it's gonna be there forever.
Mike Brasher:It's gonna be there as long as The United States Of America exists as an independent country, and I hope that's a a a really freaking long time.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. Forever is a long time, and that's the terms of this agreement.
Mike Brasher:And so that's kind of the starting point of why these are so important. We can talk about how many ducks they support. We can talk about the outsized importance of the Prairie Pothole Region as being the most productive area for waterfowl on the continent, as Scott has done, But all of those things taken together make us very proud of that investment. They also make us very protective of that investment. They make us very nervous about that investment.
Mike Brasher:Whenever we hear things like, oh, we're going to ask for information on what folks think about this this rule that is in place that provides and ensures some of those protections, and that rule or yeah. That that rule and that process specifically relates to the next thing that we're gonna talk about, and that is the manner in which the US Fish and Wildlife Service determines what the how they set what are called drain tile setbacks on land that's kind of around these these easements, these wetlands. So we have to now talk about drain tile. We have to talk about drain tile setbacks. So, Scott, let's first talk about drain tile.
Mike Brasher:What's the history of those? What's the history of what do they do? And then what's their intersection with this very important class of wetlands up in the Prairies?
Scott Stephens:Yeah. So let's start with what what they are. So, you know, some of the historic versions of drain tile were like clay pipes, you know, that
Mike Brasher:were in sections. Sections.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. That were stuck together and, you know, allowed subsurface water to sort of penetrate through that and into the pipe, and then it was it was run out at the end of the field.
Mike Brasher:So Or surface water. You know, if you had sir had water after a after a rain, that water percolates down, gets into that into that tile, into that pipe, and it exits the field more quickly. Right? Yep. It's designed to help dry out these fields more quickly.
Scott Stephens:Yep. That's
Mike Brasher:right. Typically for agricultural production uses of that nature.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. So, you know, a a technological advancement to improve agricultural production. That's really what drain tile is. You know,
Mike Brasher:now Agricultural production is important. That's what we have always said, you know.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. Farm
Mike Brasher:farm the best. Leave the rest.
Scott Stephens:So now, the current version of this doesn't come as that, you know, one foot section of of, you know, clay pipe anymore. It comes in a big roll that's PVC, you know, hundreds of feet and there are small perforations in the pipe that allows the water to seep in and then it runs through the pipe. So, you know, that's kind of what those are. When we think about intersection with the Prairie Puddle Region, there has been drain tile used in places, especially the Eastern portion of the Prairie Puddle Region where we have more precipitation and, you know, higher soil moisture at times. So Minnesota and Iowa, they've been dealing with drain tile for a long time.
Scott Stephens:But the Dakotas, in the Dakotas where most of that easement estate lies, has only been dealing with drain tile more recently. And and I would say, you know, starting in the late two thousands, you know, early twenty tens, that's when we began to see an increase in the amount of corn and soybeans in the Dakotas. And with those crops that are higher value, less tolerant of, you know, wet conditions came the desire to put drain tile in to improve yields on those. And and, you know, that expansion of corn into, you know, what was traditionally wheat and barley country was a function of the fact that, you know, there was improved varieties that were drought tolerant, you know, genetically modified versions that were herbicide tolerant, that all allowed those to be more productive in places that they historically weren't. So, you know, we've got new technology, new cropping coming in across this geography where the Fish and Wildlife Service has purchased all of these easements that protect wetlands and the languages can't drain by ditching or any other means direct or indirect.
Scott Stephens:So with that sort of overlap of easements and now drain tile, the certain the Fish and Wildlife Service has to figure out it's like, okay, how do how do we make sure that installation of drain tile doesn't impact and violate the conditions in that easement, you know, which which it's like can't be any drainage. So the approach had been, you know, like the duck science that we do, the service turned to folks who had science expertise in hydrology and brought that expertise in to figure out how to use some complex formulas based on, you know, research that had been done to establish setback distances. And we know that key factors about how drain tile influences wetlands include the lateral distance from the wetland that it's placed, and then the depth of the tile relative to sort of the the depth of the wetland. So, you know, they take all that into account, so they develop these rules and and this took a while, and I know there's a internal memo on some of the development of this that goes back to 2020.
Mike Brasher:Internal US Fish and Wildlife Service memo describing a lot of this. Yeah.
Scott Stephens:Yep. You got it. Good good clarity on that.
Mike Brasher:Not not an internal Ducks Unlimited memo.
Scott Stephens:Not involved
Mike Brasher:in the establishment of the we're involved in the formulas. We're not involved in the establishment of any of that. This is the Fish and Wildlife Service stuff.
Scott Stephens:You got it.
Mike Brasher:Internal Fish and Wildlife Service memo.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. So the key point there is, you know, we talk about the 2024 rule, but, you know, the work on figuring out this and making sure the science was solid had been occurring, you know, back probably to 2015 or '16. They came out with a memo on, you know, administrative guidelines, an internal memo for how to deal with this in 2020. And then basically said, hey, we need to make this clear and establish a rule. And so that's what happened in 2024 with with, you know, the posting of the rule and they took comments and then the rule was established.
Scott Stephens:And, yeah, we we can get into that rule did some other important things, you know, from a landowner perspective, provided clarity on what was required, you know, set up a protocol for come to the Fish and Wildlife Service, fill out this form, and then basically, what they do is they develop this setback plan specific to each individual track that has wetland easements on it and the boundaries of those wetland easements and they use that formula to do the calculation of, you know, based on the topography and soils and all the physical characteristics of this site, how far does tile have to be, what are the areas that have to be excluded from tile so that there is no impact on that wetland.
Mike Brasher:Okay. So Scott, what I wanna do here is kinda piece this together again. We're we're to sort of reset the stage, we got these these easements on on Prairie Pothole Wetlands. Those easements have been, you know, paid for with with dollars from duck hunters and others that have purchased duck stamps.
Scott Stephens:They're part of the National Wildlife Refuge System.
Mike Brasher:They're part of the National Wildlife Refuge System. They are managed and overseen by the US Fish and Wildlife Service. Those easements and the wetlands covered by those easements, they remain the ownership of the landowner.
Scott Stephens:That's right.
Mike Brasher:Very important part.
Scott Stephens:Privately owned still.
Mike Brasher:Privately owned still. And we have this emerging technology making its way into that landscape with drain tile, which, again, is essentially perforated plastic pipe that's buried into the ground, and Fish and Wildlife Service is saying, we have these easements that make it very clear we can't drain these wetlands, and so yet landowners that still own the property are interested in maximizing the productivity of the farmable land, and that's a great thing, we have to find how these two things can work together. Fish and Wildlife Service turned to science to understand that lateral flow and the flow of water, and basically asking the question and establishing a rule that that enables the landowner to say, k, or to to tell the landowner, you can install that drain tile, that perforated pipe in these areas, this distance away from the boundary of that wetland covered by that easement and this depth and these locations, and our model tells us that that drain tile installation in that configuration will not affect the water holding capability, I e, will not drain that well end. So that's kinda how this thing how this thing played out, and then that process by which that determination is made was codified in 2024.
Mike Brasher:You know, it provided all those things that you talked about. It's transparent. It's individualized for the landowner and their property. It's science based, and it provides them that safe harbor. Can't be sued if after they follow those, then they after they follow those guidelines, they can't be sued if there are unexpected adverse impacts on water levels.
Mike Brasher:And so sounds like a good thing, right? Sounds like we've got those
Scott Stephens:It's a great thing.
Mike Brasher:Well secured. I think it's a great thing too. I think I would hope most waterfowl hunters would think it's a great thing too. So, you know, the other side of this that we need to mention is that these easements remain very popular, remain very popular with a lot of the ranchers and farmers up there. Kinda talk about that, and then we're gonna just just briefly, you know, I mean, this isn't again, they're voluntary, but there's a pretty big backlog of people that are waiting to get signed up in these.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. That's right. I I was on just the other day with some of our program staff who work in the Dakotas, and, you know, we we asked that question. It's like, hey. We're we're talking about these wetland easements in cropland.
Scott Stephens:You know, is there still high demand for that? And they said, yes. We had just offered, you know, we had some funding and we offered the opportunity to fund some more of those in collaboration with the Fish and Wildlife Service. This was, I believe, in the Devil's Lake Basin area of North Dakota, and they were fully subscribed right away. So there is more demand than we have funding to address.
Scott Stephens:So producers out on the landscape are saying, I'm that's a deal that that I'm still interested in, you know.
Mike Brasher:I'm interested in that.
Scott Stephens:I'm willing to protect those wetlands, give up those rights for a payment.
Mike Brasher:Yep. Yep. So not only do we have a good process, what we think is a good process that's working for for landowners to get this clear guidance. We've got a backlog of landowners that are wanting to get into this program. And and so it's like, well, what's the issue?
Mike Brasher:Why are we why are we having this conversation now? And I'll go back to where I started. We received word that the US Fish and Wildlife Service has published this request for information saying they wanna go back and look at that twenty twenty four rule. They wanna go back and look at that process that's being used to establish those drain tile setbacks.
Scott Stephens:Right.
Mike Brasher:So the other day, whenever we and and and that's concerning to us as a duck conservation organization, a wetland conservation organization, because of all the things that we've just talked about, those setback guidelines and processes that are in place now are designed to allow no drainage consistent with the terms of the agreement. It makes us nervous that one of the possible outcomes, they wanna go back in and look at that, revisit that process, is that maybe they would think, and we have some reason to think based on just kind of the circles that we work in, they might be thinking about weakening those restrictions. I think it's it's reasonable to be worried about that.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. Well, it's it's we we don't get more strict than no drainage is allowed. Right?
Mike Brasher:So That's right.
Scott Stephens:It it can't be a stricter interpretation of that. It it could only be, you know, headed in the other direction,
Mike Brasher:I would say. And there's some language in that in the in the rules that that can kinda make you that make you think this they might be thinking about going less restrictive. The other thing, at the time when we recorded this on Monday, we said this is a request for information. The Fish and Wildlife Service hasn't really said anything about what their intention is. That changed last night around 02:15 when one of our policy staff found What that person was doing up at 02:15AM is an entirely different story, but we appreciate them being diligent and working on this most important issue.
Mike Brasher:And they came across this document on another federal website, which lays out the US Fish and Wildlife Service says pretty clearly their intention is to repeal the 2024 rule that sets these drain tile that establishes that's used to establish these drain tile setbacks. So the intention is pretty clear there, that they're wanting to repeal this rule. That's a very serious concern for us. Now, will say we don't know what they're gonna replace it with.
Scott Stephens:That's correct.
Mike Brasher:But being the organization that we are, being concerned the way we are, we can imagine various scenarios. There are other conversations that we've been part of that lead us to think there are certain alternatives that could be reasonable, and I want us to step through this again, Scott, as we did the other day. At one, you laid out two sort of two hypotheticals, and there's a whole host of things in between, but but lay out those again. You know, what might we be talking about? Why are we worrying about this?
Mike Brasher:What do we think might come or what could come, I should say?
Scott Stephens:Yeah. Yeah. So as we tried to think about it, it's like, we've got the current rules that sort of meets the standard of no drainage. It's like, what what are other options? It's like, well, the the other end of the spectrum could be, you know, what if we have we don't worry about tile setbacks and, know, just in style install tile wherever you want.
Scott Stephens:I think we can dismiss that one pretty quickly because that would definitely not align with the language in the Fish and Wildlife Service easements that, you know, no drainage by ditching or any other means direct or indirect. Just just doesn't align, you know. Those two are incompatible. The the other question that's been raised several times and that we've been asked, it's like, for other purposes, there are other setbacks that US Department of Agriculture uses to ensure that there are quote, unquote minimal effects when producers are trying to be in compliance of conservation compliance provisions in the farm bill, like swamp buster, that that make them eligible for crop insurance and a whole host of other USDA benefit programs and supports. So they said, well, what about that?
Scott Stephens:What if what if we just had, you know, what if all the easement setbacks just use that instead? And it's like, okay, well, there's a different objective there, you know, what they define as the objective is minimal effects and you compare that to what's in the Fish and Wildlife Service easements and it's like, nope, there is basically no no drainage allowed. But fortunately, we have access to one piece of science that actually took a look at what what is the impact of USDA setbacks on on wetlands. And and so the study was in North Dakota, you know, published in 2017, some some researchers at Northern Prairie Wildlife Research Center and they took a couple wetlands on a property and and just left them natural and monitored those and a couple wetlands on another property and installed the tile, drainage tile in the cropland portion of of that field using the USDA setbacks. So, you know, this is a test of what what does USDA setbacks look like from, you know, an impacts to wetland standpoint.
Scott Stephens:And what they estimated was overall, there was about a 7% reduction in the inundated area or we would say the surface area or the size of the wetland. But on one of those wetlands that was part of the study, it ran for three years. The reduction in that inundated area or surface area in year one was 28%, in year two it was 10%, and then in year three it was 17%. So I would suggest that based on that data, which is the only data we have evaluating those setbacks, that that kind of reduction in surface area is again inconsistent with the language in fish and wildlife service easements. So that's been our response when that question has come up.
Scott Stephens:As we talked about, we don't know what might be might be offered as a replacement for the 2024 rule, but that's something that we get questions about. So, you know, from our perspective, the science tells us we have to dismiss that one out of hand if we're gonna align and be, you know, in compliance with the language in the Fish and Wildlife Service easements.
Mike Brasher:Again, I go back to this because it is so important. You as a duck hunter, if you're listening to this, if you purchase a federal duck stamp, that money went to the Fish and Wildlife Service. The Fish and Wildlife Service told you that money was going to be used to permanently protect the habitat values of grasslands and wetlands through conservation easements, a good chunk of which are in the prairies. That was the promise that was made to you as a duck hunter by the US Fish and Wildlife Service. That is why I have championed the duck stamp time and time again.
Mike Brasher:That is why I purchase five to 10 duck stamps a year. I am very proud of my investment in duck stamps. I am very proud of the the the impact that I know they leave, or at least that I I I hope they leave. I had been told they were going to leave.
Scott Stephens:We were told those were perpetual investments forever. Those those were there.
Mike Brasher:We were told by our by the US Fish and Wildlife Service, those were were perpetual. So I get really nervous when I hear that we're we're we're potentially tinkering around around with some some things that would would weaken those restrictions.
Scott Stephens:Yeah. So I've I've likened this to those investments, that habitat base is what I would call the equivalent of a habitat four zero one k fund for duck hunters. And the returns that we get, the annual returns are ducks fall following, you know, flight paths, winging their way southward each fall after they're produced in these areas. So, you know, we the the fear here is that really the question being asked is, are you okay with, you know, us taking a little principle out of that $4.00 1 k fund? And for me, as a duck hunter who's been making that investment for a number of years now, the answer is heck no.
Scott Stephens:Like Yeah. You know, that was that was a forever deal.
Mike Brasher:Yeah. It it doesn't matter if it's 2%. That's some of the questions that we'd we've received from some of the other podcasts that we you and I have been on. It's like, well, what what do you think the impact would be? Well, you could do sort of the back of the napkin calculation with any of those percentages that you wanted to, and I think you I don't know if you mentioned it yet on this podcast.
Mike Brasher:We've done this so many times. They run together. But the number the estimated acreage of wetlands covered by these conservation easements up there in the Prairies is 1,700,000. So you could, you know, do some back of the napkin calculations to do these types of things. What's that 7% of 1,700,000, etcetera.
Mike Brasher:We're not telling you to do that. We're just saying it doesn't take very much for a person to think about, well, what would that look like? In terms of an effect on impact on inundated acres, it's not trivial, I can tell you But before I even get to the calculations, I'm like you, Scott. No impact is what what we agreed to whenever we purchased
Scott Stephens:Right.
Mike Brasher:Those those duck stands.
Scott Stephens:That was a contract. We had A literal contract says that.
Mike Brasher:That's right. And so so that's where we are as an organization, advocating that the US Fish and Wildlife Service keep in place this 2024 rule that spells out a clear process by which they are going to work with landowners to evaluate their land, to look at the the easement boundaries, and then use this science based approach to establish allowable setbacks, how far and how deep landowners can install drain tiles in and around these wetlands to ensure they don't have an effect on the functionality of those wetlands. That's the rule that's in place. That's the rule that the Fish and Wildlife Service is proposing is is says they are planning to repeal, and we are here saying, that's a bad idea. It's a bad idea for hunters that have made that investment.
Mike Brasher:It's a bad idea for ducks, and we want people to share we want people to to share their thoughts and their opinion with the US Fish and Wildlife Service. The other thing that's very important for you to know is that the comment period here is pretty short. That's The comment period goes only to August 7.
Scott Stephens:Fourteen days. Days total to
Mike Brasher:days total to And do and so that's why we are sorta on an all out blitz. This is mission critical. This is all hands on deck. And, you know, we we are this is part of the governmental process. That's the other way to look at this.
Mike Brasher:This is the way we engage with our government and say, these are the things that are important to us. We, as a class of Americans, say, these things are important to us.
Scott Stephens:This is participating in democracy. Right?
Mike Brasher:This is participating in democracy, and we are wanting you to hear our voice. Scott, you and I were on a podcast just prior to this, and you said, you know what? We have about a million, maybe a million, probably 1.5 or more duck hunters, waterfowl hunters in this country if you count for all the churn that happens year after year. How amazing would it be if we had a million or 1,500,000 comments show up in the federal register?
Scott Stephens:I think that would give pause to whether the rule was gonna change. So we we need overwhelming support here is what we're looking for.
Mike Brasher:So here's what we, as Ducks Unlimited, are asking you to do. We are asking you to do two things. We're asking you to sign on to a petition that these will be linked in the show notes. You can also go to social media, look at our social media accounts. You will find a lot of information and a lot of links on where you can get to these different things that we're asking you to do.
Mike Brasher:You may have also received an email. If you receive that email, we ask you to act on it. It'll take you to a place where you can sign a petition offering support for that twenty twenty four rule. We are also going to ask you to submit a comment, an individualized comment to the Federal Register. You can go to a website, ducks.org/savetheduckfactory, click on one of those links.
Mike Brasher:It might say sign the petition, but I think it will actually take you to the Federal Register where you can submit your comment. We will provide both links to both of those in in the show notes. We encourage you to engage, to make your voice known, make your story personal. Let the US Fish and Wildlife Service know that you appreciate the protection that they provide to these wetlands that we've invested in. Let them know that you support the 2024 rule, you think it's a good rule, and you wanna see it stay on the books to protect the investments that we made, and our forefathers and folks that came before us also did.
Mike Brasher:Scott, what have we missed? What else do we wanna emphasize here?
Scott Stephens:I think that's it. I mean, this is an asset base that has been bought and paid for by duck hunters, and we're we're saying as investors in that, please stand up and say, you know, keep that base that we bought and paid for. You know, this is important to us. So we are looking for that overwhelming support to say that, and that happens right now through the federal registry.
Mike Brasher:Have your voice heard. Submit your comments before August 7. There's pretty good chance that you will hear about this on multiple platforms. You might hear Scott and me on those different platforms.
Scott Stephens:People are gonna get sick of hearing of us from us.
Mike Brasher:This is but but, hey, that's okay. If there's an issue that I'm okay with them getting tired hearing from us on, this is it. That's how important this is. This is our number one priority. This is mission critical for us, and we ask you to engage, and we thank you for for being an absolutely essential part what we're trying to do.
Mike Brasher:Scott, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for, joining me again, and, I think I got another episode with you here a little bit later on.
Scott Stephens:Sounds good. Always good to join, Mike.
Mike Brasher:A very special thanks to our guest on today's episode, doctor Scott Stevens. We appreciate his expertise. We appreciate his time. We appreciate his passion for this resource and the protections that we've all worked to provide. We thank our producer in the chair today, Sam Crane, for his work in getting this recorded and then out to you.
Mike Brasher:And we thank you, the listener, for spending your time with us. We thank you for investing in duck stamps. We thank you investing in conservation, and we thank you for engaging in the process of letting your voice be known.
VO:That's a wrap for today's episode of the Ducks Unlimited Podcast brought to you by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. From post hunt unwinds to celebrations back at camp, Bird Dog delivers award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe, and check out ducks.org/dupodcast for more stories, science, and all things waterfowl. Guest opinions are their own and don't necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited. Until next time, stay fired up, stay focused, and stay tuned to the Ducks.