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In this deeply revealing conversation, Jen Porter and Dr. Tamara Turner explore what it truly means to walk in Holy Power — the authority that flows not from striving, status, or strategy, but from surrender, obedience, and intimacy with God.
Dr. Turner shares her remarkable journey from classroom teacher to CEO of a pioneering K–12 charter school, her early flirtation with New Age spirituality, and the life-changing awakening to the power of the Holy Spirit. Through a compelling real-life leadership story, she reveals how heaven’s power moves through humility, prayer, and courage — inviting every woman to reject counterfeit strength and step into the bold, Spirit-led authority God has entrusted to her.
Listeners who want to connect more with Dr. Turner can learn about her work at Quality Education Academy and the TRUTH Movement, and those who want to continue this journey of faith-rooted leadership are warmly invited to connect at https://qeschools.com/.
If this message resonates, Jen invites you to connect with her and join the Lioness Community — a gathering of courageous, faith-filled women learning to lead with heart, purpose, and freedom. You’ll find resources, inspiration, and a sisterhood committed to becoming radiant leaders rooted in Christ. https://www.jenportercoach.com/
May you walk boldly in the authority of Christ, knowing His Spirit empowers you, His love secures you and His presence goes before you in every step.
Dr. Turner shares her remarkable journey from classroom teacher to CEO of a pioneering K–12 charter school, her early flirtation with New Age spirituality, and the life-changing awakening to the power of the Holy Spirit. Through a compelling real-life leadership story, she reveals how heaven’s power moves through humility, prayer, and courage — inviting every woman to reject counterfeit strength and step into the bold, Spirit-led authority God has entrusted to her.
Listeners who want to connect more with Dr. Turner can learn about her work at Quality Education Academy and the TRUTH Movement, and those who want to continue this journey of faith-rooted leadership are warmly invited to connect at https://qeschools.com/.
If this message resonates, Jen invites you to connect with her and join the Lioness Community — a gathering of courageous, faith-filled women learning to lead with heart, purpose, and freedom. You’ll find resources, inspiration, and a sisterhood committed to becoming radiant leaders rooted in Christ. https://www.jenportercoach.com/
May you walk boldly in the authority of Christ, knowing His Spirit empowers you, His love secures you and His presence goes before you in every step.
Creators and Guests
What is Lioness Women: Rooted in Christ?
Welcome to Lioness Women, a space for faith-fueled women to connect with their purpose and amplify their voices. These Lioness Conversations highlight purpose-driven women who share how their faith in Christ shapes their leadership, courage, and calling. 🦁
Hosted by Jen Porter, leadership and empowerment coach, this podcast shines a light on women who are leading with wisdom, strength, and grace — in boardrooms, businesses, ministries, and movements around the world.
Through raw, inspiring conversations, we explore how women of faith are building legacies, overcoming fear, and transforming their industries with bold vision and unshakable belief. If you’re ready to rise higher, lead with purpose, and stay rooted in Christ — this is your community.
Faith-Based Leadership | Christian Women | Women of Faith | Christian Podcast for Women | Kingdom Leadership | Spiritual Growth | Eternal Impact
Jen Porter (00:00)
Hey, Lioness, welcome back to the show, Lioness Women Rooted in Christ. I'm your host, Jen Porter, leadership and empowerment coach for ambitious and heart-centered women who want to put God at the center of everything that we do. We're in the middle of a series called Identity in Christ. And the reason I did this is because it's essential that we understand who we are and whose we are, else we will be led astray.
by how the world defines us, the expectations of others, we will become lost and truly ineffective in this life. God has an assignment, He has work for us to do, and we have to know who we are in order to do that well. And I've just seen it in my coaching work. I've seen it in my own life and among my friends. When we do not understand who we are, we will have self-doubt.
We will question ourselves, we will spin out, we will be so consumed with our own insecurities that we don't even lean into the calling that God has on our lives. It'll hold us back and we'll stay small. ⁓ There's just so many reasons why it's essential. And so this series is about rooting and establishing in who God says we are, which we can find in scripture.
So we've been focusing on the Bible and what God tells us about who we are. We started with love, how beloved we are, and this week we are focusing on our powerfulness, how powerful we are and the power and authority that we have in Christ. Not power as the world defines it, but power as God defines it. And it's not even our own strength, not even close. It is only because of Christ that we are empowered.
to do good work in this world for him and for the sake of others. I am excited to dive into this topic with somebody extremely special. I can't wait for you to hear from her. Dr. Tamara Turner is a visionary educator and servant leader who has transformed lives across North Carolina as CEO of Quality Education Academy while cultivating young activists through the Truth Movement.
and advancing justice through her scholarship and community leadership. Equally precious to me, she is my lifelong sister in faith, a friend since childhood whose heart for God, the kingdom, and the healing of our world has shaped both of our lives. Tamara, welcome to the show.
Dr. Tamara Turner (02:30)
I'm sorry.
Thank you so much for having me. I feel so honored.
Jen Porter (02:46)
We've been trying to have this conversation for a long time, in fact, and it just seems like the timing is perfect because we're in the middle of this series and you and I talk about these topics all the time. And it's just so, so important. Tell us a little bit about what you're doing at Quality Education Academy first.
Dr. Tamara Turner (03:10)
So ⁓ it's a K-12 public charter school in Winston-Salem, ⁓ where we were born and raised. So ⁓ it's a nice little nod to hometown. ⁓ And it's about 830 students, K-12. ⁓ And we have a business model. So it's very interesting. ⁓ It's very unique. I'm not considered the superintendent of schools.
I'm considered the CEO because it follows a business model. So ⁓ we have a senior executive leadership team of five and then an executive leadership team of another six folks, ⁓ well seven now. We have a leadership pipeline. So ⁓ our focus is really developing ⁓ leaders. Like that's the purpose. And ⁓
So it's just interesting that we're talking about authority and power because that is the assignment, I believe, for me in this season with our school, I call it school system because it's K-12. So yeah.
Jen Porter (04:21)
Wow.
Amazing. It's been amazing to watch your journey, how God has led you to this place and, you know, given you education and certifications and experiences and like elevated you to these places of authority, which we're going to talk about today. So, ⁓ tell me what you think power and authority means.
Dr. Tamara Turner (04:28)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Uh, that's huge. Of course, we speak of the all powerful, the almighty or might, dunamis, right? The ability to move something, the ability to make something happen in the physical realm. That's one of the uses of power, right? When I'm talking about my power or the power that is, I would say, imputed to us.
⁓ It is about an assignment. It is about, ⁓ you know, what God is doing in his kingdom ⁓ that he kind of is like, dub you leader of this region, right? And so whatever that, whatever that region is, even if it's the region of our own mind, it's this, this is the territory that I'm giving you authority over.
Jen Porter (05:42)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (05:47)
and
you're to have dominion over this territory. So if we can kind of look at it like a territory that can be any size, right? The power is imputed. So this might be a little, this might be a different way to look at it, but it's not just like, my inherent power and authority. Yes, it's, you know, image bearers, right, yes.
Jen Porter (05:59)
Hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (06:16)
But I'm speaking more about the imputed authority to rule a territory. ⁓ That's the power that I believe I ⁓ should be developing and should be really teaching, helping us to understand ⁓ what that is and how to do that.
Jen Porter (06:24)
Wow.
That's so interesting because
I haven't thought about it in that exact way of dominion. It makes me think about Adam of the Bible, the original man. God says, give you dominion and authority over all the land, all the animals, all the agriculture. And that was so specifically, he was given that, even to name.
Dr. Tamara Turner (06:44)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jen Porter (07:07)
the animals.
Dr. Tamara Turner (07:09)
And so that means that the sort the the original source of all power Has imputed some power right to do a thing to To handle a territory and so we might say task or assignment or calling I look at that all is one in the same and the authority the dominion
Jen Porter (07:15)
Mm-hmm.
running.
Dr. Tamara Turner (07:38)
⁓ you know, it's coming through us. It doesn't, it doesn't come from us. ⁓ and it actually doesn't like just reside in us. If that makes sense. It is, I am doing a thing. I'm doing a thing through you. Should you, you know, this is your mission. Should you choose to accept it? I'm doing this thing through you. If you submit to yes, I'll take on this, assignment, this calling.
Jen Porter (07:50)
It's dynamic moving.
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (08:07)
then now you have this authority to do things in the earth, in that territory. Does that make sense?
Jen Porter (08:14)
Yeah, totally.
So what, when do you recall becoming aware of the power and authority that Christ has given us in your life?
Dr. Tamara Turner (08:28)
So I have two very, very vivid kind of like aha moments, right? One was in college. And so now I'm supposed to be living out all this stuff that I grew up, know, born and raised in a church. And now it's the real time to, is this true, right? Does this really work? And I ⁓ had like the flu or something. I was super sick. And I remember I...
like yesterday. I remember sitting on the couch at my then boyfriend's house, current husband, shout out of 25 years. I remember sitting on his couch. He's in class and I'm like so sick and I'm so miserable and everything is hurting. couldn't, it hurt to swallow. I couldn't breathe. Like I just remember feeling horrible and I very rarely get sick.
Kind of funny because I'm just getting over like being super sick last week. But it's such a contrast for me because I very rarely get physically ill. And I remember thinking like, I'm so miserable. I don't want to be like this. And it just very simply, you know, I do believe the Holy Spirit was like, you you don't have to be. ⁓ This is where this whole thing of being able to ask whatever. ⁓
in faith and believe that you have it and you will, shall receive it. And that the verse just, you know, dropped in my spirit and it was like, is this real? Is this really how this works? You know, and so I just, I closed my eyes and I began to pray. It wasn't five seconds into the prayer that I felt myself like I could breathe.
I could swallow without pain as I was praying before I finished the prayer, before I said in Jesus name, amen, before, know, in a matter of seconds. And I sat there, I was just dumbfounded because I'm like, are you telling me that all this time? This is odd. So there's a power that I just had not wielded. It was there.
I had access to it all along. I didn't believe it. So I never wielded it. So I never experienced it. I remember that being the first time that I was like, my God, this is real. This you can ask whatsoever. You know, in faith, like I do believe this is part of his will for me not to be ill at this time. And before I said, amen, I was healed.
And I said, like, this is the cheat code of life. This is, you're talking about power. So the power to speak that, to ask that in prayer, that was the first time that it was like, I don't have to, and I'm being careful about how I'm saying it, but I don't have to, I don't have to be subjected to another authority, another power.
Jen Porter (11:34)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (11:53)
right,
Jen Porter (11:54)
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (11:55)
that I actually can, I can come under this other authority and power and experience, you know, the imputed power. Cause it was clearly not me. I mean, I was sick, right? So.
Jen Porter (12:09)
⁓
I'm curious about what you said about the power and it made me think that maybe there's different kinds of power but then I'm thinking it's actually different sources of power. Would you say it that way?
Dr. Tamara Turner (12:23)
⁓ absolutely. ⁓ I think that, you know, there's a, there's a lot of, ⁓ you know, Hebrew was way different than English. So, ⁓ there's multiple, ⁓ Hebrew words for the one word power, right? Or might. And so, ⁓ there's a power like I reign and therefore I just sit and hold this power. There's a power that I can move something. I have enough force.
that I can move something in the Earth, right? It's all from the singular source of all power, right? ⁓ But our understanding of what it is and how we use it. So yes, a short answer.
Jen Porter (12:55)
Yeah.
Right.
⁓ I think about now I'm
thinking about the misuse of that power, right? The abuse.
Dr. Tamara Turner (13:11)
So it's funny you say
that, ⁓ and I'm infamous for interrupting, so just I'm gonna ask for forgiveness upfront. ⁓ What came to mind when you first asked that was, ⁓ also in college, know, college is when you are on your own for real, right? And you, know, how am I gonna be? What am I really gonna do? Do I really believe all that stuff that I was taught? And so I,
Jen Porter (13:16)
Go for it.
Dr. Tamara Turner (13:40)
because of my specific upbringing, right, I did not really see a lot of power. Like in my religious setting, in my church setting, in my religious tradition, I didn't see force enacted to do something, to accomplish. I didn't see that, you know. I saw a lot of being subjugated to, you know, a victim of the powers of this world. And so I kind of...
Jen Porter (13:52)
Yeah.
Hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (14:09)
This is going to probably take us a different direction, but I kind of veered into, OK, well, I see power over here. Let me explore that. And this is when I'm going to date myself. This is when the secret came out, right? ⁓ And I I got really deep into just all of that stuff. And ⁓ because there was power, there was power there. There was real power.
Jen Porter (14:18)
Mm-hmm.
Bye!
Dr. Tamara Turner (14:38)
to do things and accomplish things and achieve things, right? And so I just went, because I really didn't understand this ⁓ holy power, I just went into, okay, whatever power I can have access to. And you have access to different power. And so ⁓ I remember like, really, like I was a believer in the secret and you know,
Jen Porter (14:41)
Hmm.
Holy, holy power. Holy power.
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (15:08)
speaking things into existence and just you whatever my wildest dreams and my heart's desires and ⁓ and and Get this it worked
Okay, it worked. I was able to access power and get what I wanted. And not understanding that, you know, there are multiple sources of power. There is an ultimate all powerful, but there is, there's multiple. And so not having an understanding of that, you know, I really went and I got deep into new age and everything like.
Jen Porter (15:30)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Well, I want
to pause on that point because in my journey of talking with other women about this topic, about spirituality, I have noticed that there are a lot of women who are our age who are very spiritual, but it's not rooted in a strong foundation.
Dr. Tamara Turner (16:06)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jen Porter (16:17)
In some cases, these people even admitted that this, once I started asking some questions, like, what is your spirituality? What does that mean? They even admitted it was almost like a buffet where they would pick and choose of the pieces that they wanted to kind of put together to make up what their, quote, spirituality is. And I thought to myself, what happened, you know, to our generation, you know, how, but I see all the influences, right?
Dr. Tamara Turner (16:24)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
huh.
Mm-hmm.
Jen Porter (16:46)
and but how lost people are. And yet what we need more than anything to survive in this world and to thrive in this world and to be effective as, know, in the lives that we've been given is to be grounded in truth.
Dr. Tamara Turner (17:03)
Yes. And you know, it's so, I was a sitting duck for, for, ⁓ you know, so for example, the knowledge of good and evil, right? The fact that there is a knowledge of evil. There is a, you know, there are principles ⁓ and laws that work. doesn't matter who uses them, right? There are people who, who don't believe in God, for example,
that use godly principles and get godly results. See it all the time, right? And vice versa. And I was one of those people that I did, I mean, would, know, whatever I dreamed up that I wanted to see or accomplish, I'd visualize it, I'd speak it, all of those things, totally apart from, well, what is God's will for me? What does he desire for me? You know, he's the one that gave me an assignment and a calling, but, you know, just whatever I wanted.
whatever I want and and because it worked to an extent, because it worked for a season, because it worked to an extent. I'm like, OK, well, this must be good. This is somebody who was born and raised under, you know, the nurturing admonition of the Lord. Like if if that was my outcome, I do suspect and I really have a theory and it's not my own theory.
Jen Porter (18:18)
Sure.
Dr. Tamara Turner (18:31)
I'm trying to think of the book the second coming of the new age. I think is ⁓ I recall the author but ⁓ He talks about you know how our generation and it's it's it's your it's your 40 somethings now, right? It's your current 40 somethings. There's something that happened with our generation uniquely not that it's the first time but ⁓ We are so ⁓ Intellectual
Our approach even to God is so intellectual, right? And so ⁓ we don't actually see, you know, spiritual power from God. It's about just knowing. It's about information. It's not about experiencing the Holy Spirit, right? And so when you see power and you say, ⁓ okay, well that works. So I'm gonna try that, right? ⁓
Jen Porter (19:20)
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (19:29)
That's why say I feel like I was sitting duck for that. So I understood power. I didn't understand that there were multiple sources of power. I didn't understand that what God gives, you know, is without repentance, right? That it's going to always be good. It's going to always be for my good. The outcome is going to always be good. Whereas if I just do what I want, I could wield that power. I could do that. It's not going to ⁓ ultimately be for my good.
It's not going to ultimately be good. It may feel good at the time. Right? That's why I say a season.
Jen Porter (20:01)
Yeah.
So I say more about that because I'm wondering what you might have been missing as you were pursuing the other types of power and spirituality, or was it just like when you were in that season, you're like, I'm good.
Dr. Tamara Turner (20:11)
Mm-hmm.
So here's the wild thing about it. I, as far, if you ask me, I'm a Christian. Everything I'm doing is from God, about God, right? ⁓ Meanwhile, full-fledged, honestly, witchcraft, okay? Which is what? Manipulating, right, the earth for whatever outcome that I want. Sins. ⁓
Jen Porter (20:49)
Mm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (20:50)
Holy power. So I don't need that to do what I want to do. Right? I can be my own God. You can do that. People do it. And I mean, I did. And what I was missing was understanding power. Understanding holy power. no... I really, if you asked me to explain the Holy Spirit, I couldn't.
It was totally just this amorphous type of, you know, I couldn't even articulate who, what, how the Holy Spirit, that's what I was missing. As far as I knew, hey, you know, I understand God. mean, the Godhead, know, yeah, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, sure, right? And so that's what I was missing. And so that, which made me vulnerable.
to, okay, well, you don't want to be a victim in your life, right? So you want to take authority, you want to take power.
Jen Porter (21:59)
That
is what I noticed when I was thinking about this trend that I'm seeing of people that are very spiritual, but they're mixing in, you know, witchcraft and other new age spirituality. And I thought, ⁓ no, it does make sense because everybody's drawn to power. Everybody wants to have authority in their own lives and be able to, I mean, it sounds bad, but manipulate.
Dr. Tamara Turner (22:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jen Porter (22:29)
life for our
good, for our benefit. Who doesn't want good things? And to feel the sense of empowerment in outcomes. Control. Yes, that's exactly it. We want to have control. And if we're going to move toward things that give us access, like we think that it's giving us access to control, even though we may not know it could destroy us.
Dr. Tamara Turner (22:40)
Mm-hmm. Control. Uh-huh.
So.
Yeah, I have a whole testimony about that that I will absolutely share one day. I knew it was going to kind of veer to the right there. But so then back to to the holy power, right? From the source of all power, because I didn't even understand that. I'm like, OK, God has our power. So if I see power, it must be from him. And it's like, well, no, there is some power that's allowed. You know, it's limited, but it's allowed.
So then really just understanding the Holy Spirit. Who is power, right? The Holy Spirit, literal, is power. He is power. So being able to speak the word and see the word move things in the earth, right? That was the beginning. It's like, ⁓ no, now this is...
because it doesn't come from me, you know, because it is that there's a true North. There is something that is, you know, completely apart from me and complete and perfect. This is actually the source. And then of what would be something that could be that's good for everyone, not just me, that's the other piece of that.
of evil power, right? It's good for me. It's not good. So I can take advantage of you. I can manipulate you, right? It's good for me. It's not good for you. So if we all use that source of power, it's bad for everyone, right? It's bad for everyone. It's not sustainable. But if I use and access the holy power, it's actually good for everyone.
Jen Porter (24:44)
Yeah.
Wow.
Dr. Tamara Turner (24:56)
Everybody involved in that touches it is blessed as opposed to the selfish source, the greedy source, the prideful source.
Jen Porter (25:04)
Yeah. I love the way you
say that holy power. What changed for you when you discovered the Holy Spirit and the power of God?
Dr. Tamara Turner (25:14)
⁓ It made, well, everything. mean, it made all of this make sense. You know, it doesn't hold. It just doesn't compute that I'm here, I'm on this earth. Like, God, you know what I'm going through down here? What's the benefit of being yours? Why choose?
you, right? Unless there's some thing, there's some benefits. And one of them is that you will be, and again, I choose my words carefully, but that you will be the head and not the tail. Why? For you to be able to lord it over, you know, to know so that you can actually fulfill the reason that you're here. Like the whole reason that you're on this planet is to
is to carry whatever mantle that I designed you for. Ultimately, it's fulfillment. Ultimately, it's like, this is, you know how you know when you are in the flow. You know when it's like, I'm in my bag. I'm supposed to be doing this. ⁓ To be able to experience that, to be fulfilled.
⁓ which is the ultimate thing that we're trying so hard to get that we could never get until we submit to that power.
Jen Porter (26:45)
Yeah. I think it's also.
Yeah, it's fulfillment, but it's also purpose,
right? And I mean, ultimately, aren't we all looking for meaning and purpose? Like you're saying to make sense of this world that doesn't make sense, but when we understand the story written across the Bible, it does...
Dr. Tamara Turner (26:58)
Mm-hmm. All right.
Right.
Jen Porter (27:16)
Makes sense. And it's very orienting to me to have a biblical perspective. I always say, like, I know where we are in the story. It's orienting, right? We see all these things happening in the world. It doesn't look good. It's not good. And yet, we're not surprised because God has given us the full story.
Dr. Tamara Turner (27:20)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Right. And to be able to know what's next, right? The expected end that he promises us. that, something about that phrase, an expected end, it's so good to my personality type. I want to know what's next.
Jen Porter (27:45)
and we know where we are in that. And we know that hope is what's coming.
Dr. Tamara Turner (28:07)
Like I can, if I know how long this refinement process, or if I know the outcome of this refinement process, right? Then when I'm in the fire, I'm not losing hope to your point. It's like, but I know this is going somewhere. This is gonna be, this is gonna work for good. Like this is going somewhere I can endure this really refining fire process.
Jen Porter (28:35)
so good. Gosh, we could do this so long. I want to hear though about your authority that God has called you to in your positions, in your leadership roles. What has that been like for you to be called into leadership positions and then your relationship with power in that?
Dr. Tamara Turner (28:37)
I know, it's so much.
That's so good. That's a great question. ⁓ So I have a lot of theories. Pretty much I have a theory about everything. So I have this theory that God's chosen leaders, ⁓ nine times out of 10 are reluctant leaders.
full of self doubt at the point of the call ⁓ and are the last ones to desire the position. ⁓ And it's how this theory has held true for, know, in my little finite world. I just, I just noticed this pattern, right? So I'm no different. ⁓
Jen Porter (29:34)
Yeah. Yeah.
Hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (29:57)
I'm an educator, right? That's one of my giftings is the gift of teaching. I love to teach. It's my thing. I do it for fun. I did it before I was a professional educator. it's just right. And I love to learn, which makes you a great teacher. So my desire, the calling I would have placed on myself would be to teach, right? To teach students in the classroom, grade school.
or even college to teach. ⁓ And I really envision just retiring teaching kindergarten, because that was my favorite grade to teach, by the way. Still is. ⁓ And so then God is like, I couldn't escape it, first of all. Everywhere I would teach, there'd be some administrator somewhere saying, have you ever thought about going into administration?
Jen Porter (30:40)
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (30:55)
to which I would always reply, absolutely not. Who wants to do that? who would? I'm from afar, I'm looking and I'm like, no, thank you. You know, I'll pass. And so after multiple administrators, colleagues, administrators who are not even at the school that I, which I'm teaching, are like, you know, you should really think about, know, so I to talk about the third or fourth time. It's like, okay, what is...
So that's that self doubt piece. It's like, well, what are y'all seeing? Because I don't see that at all. And I don't even have a desire for that. Based on what, I'm going to choose my words carefully, how I saw it being done also had an impact on whether I thought I would want to sign up for that or not. And so I'm like, yeah, no. And so ⁓ after just one year of teaching at my current school, ⁓ the CEO was like,
Jen Porter (31:40)
Bye.
Dr. Tamara Turner (31:54)
Yeah, you need to go back to school, get your school admit. We need people like you leading. And people that think like you, people that know what you know. And so I kind of like, I don't even know. I didn't want to do it, but I did. ⁓ Can't explain it to this day. I tried to quit multiple times.
And I mean I have professors that were like I had two and I could tell you all about it but two in particular that I was like, you know what? This school and working full-time thing, especially as an educator, especially at our school, you know where we we go over and beyond it's just I'm gonna be to do this right now, you know and to have two in two different times two different professors say I don't accept your quitting
I was like, what? I'm just giving you the courtesy of informing you that, hey, you're not going to see me next semester, you know, and why? And they're like, no. How you going to tell me no? I'm the one quitting. And ⁓ I have multiple stories like that where I just was like, this is not for me. Who am I kidding? You know, and.
people saying like, I don't accept it. There was a final project that was due and it was like, you know what? I just didn't have time to do it. I didn't have time to do it. So, I understand you gotta do what you gotta do, know how to do it. I'll take a little time off and kind of get my schedule together and I'll get back with you. And my professor was like, so when can you have it?
So now, what's my excuse, right? I'm like, ⁓ Friday? I don't know. And ⁓ that literally happened twice, two different years, two different professors. So I did everything I could not to go to the next level of leadership, okay? And God was like, yeah, no. Going and getting my doctorate again, my CEO at the time was like, yeah, this program, you really should look into it. And I'm like.
There's no way. don't know when. When? With what money? With what time? Again, because that is not the calling that I would have placed on myself. If I was in charge, this would not be how I would write this, so.
Jen Porter (34:35)
Well, let
me just also add that it's not how you saw yourself. The lens in which you saw yourself wasn't clear. And I think that's a problem for a lot of us. We don't see ourselves the way God sees us.
Dr. Tamara Turner (34:41)
Right.
and the things that I do know about me, right? That the enemy is all too ready to continue to whisper in my ear, like, you're not organized enough. You don't know enough. I have a very interesting personality. And it's like, I'm an extreme introvert. So what in the world? Why? Why would I be like?
having to interact with all these people every day, it just doesn't even make sense, right? So all of those things together is like, no, this doesn't make sense for me. No, thank you. ⁓ And I tried even just in applying for my doctor to go to school for my doctorate. And I'm like, yeah, I don't think I have the money. I don't think I have the time. And these people, I remember them, they called me. I don't even know if that's a thing. ⁓
You apply or you don't. They called me and was like, yeah, I noticed that you didn't complete, da, da, da, da, da. And yeah, the deadline has passed, but... And I'm like, what? Like, I was finally relieved, like, okay, the deadline passed. Okay, I tried. You know, I can just be like, hey, I tried. It just didn't work out. And I could not escape the calling.
So there's that. And so then I recently, so I've been at our school for 20, I can't even remember now, 23 years I think it is, oh three, yeah, 23 years. And so for 18 of them, I was in leadership. So after just a year, I was like, okay, now I'm over curriculum, okay, now I'm over the grade level, I'm...
And like, just, it just wouldn't stop, you know, like it just, I look up and I'm like, how did I, what, how did I get here? What is going on? Like it, I really had, that was the feeling the whole time was like, okay, well somebody's gotta do it, you know, I'll stand in the gap until we can find the person that's supposed to be doing this, you know? And then it's me, you know? And so ⁓ I became the CEO four years ago.
So being in leadership and being in the school administrator, being over elementary and then being over high school, being the chief development officer, I had lots of different leadership roles, but then being the leader, it was just insane to me. It was just crazy to me because I'm like, me? Surely there's a better person.
You know, because I know me and I'm like, again, and this is absolutely no shade to my predecessors who I have nothing but praise. I have nothing but praise, you know, but what I thought that I would need to be to be the CEO. Right. This is where. Guy kind of was showing me, you know, there's a way that I want you to lead.
Jen Porter (37:50)
you
Dr. Tamara Turner (38:17)
and it does not look like what you've seen.
Jen Porter (38:22)
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (38:23)
So then, I'm called to this type of leadership that is...
I have to be different things at different times. I don't get to just be me. Let me say it that way. Like just my default setting.
because I am called to lead a certain way. And so my default setting is very conflict averse, very laid back and chill, you know? It's like, hey man, just do your job, you know? I mean, because I don't like to be micromanaged. I don't, you know, in my mind what that feels like and.
Jen Porter (39:11)
Right.
Dr. Tamara Turner (39:14)
And then God is like, okay, no, I need you to like run towards conflict. What? I need you to literally, the moment you snip a little bit of conflict, I need you to run towards that. I need you to look it square in the eye. I need you to deal with it head on. That is not me in and of myself at all. Anybody that knows me knows. I've never done drama in my life. Like I don't do it in my social setting. I don't do it with my family.
I don't do that, right? But then, that's one, know, there'll be times that God's saying, go right to that. And then there's times, these are, now this is the most shocking, I think, part of it for me, and this is all very recent for me. In 23 years, the last four, where God is like, I want you to lead.
quietly.
Now, mind you, I didn't want to be a leader because, OK, you got to be out front and you got to, you know, and that's not me. I don't want to do that. I don't want to be that. And it's like for the assignment, right, the territory that I'm giving you. that's a that's a certain group of people. That's a certain ⁓ calling for this thing that I, by the way, created you to do. I this is how you do it. You don't know how to do it.
You don't just immediately know how to do it. I'm going to tell you literally step by step every day, multiple times a day, how to do it. So it's not a,
Jen Porter (40:55)
Can you talk more about that?
Because I know enough about you to know some of those stories, but I think it is unique. And can you say more about what that looks like to rely on God, rely on the Holy Spirit in the moments, like on the daily?
Dr. Tamara Turner (41:04)
Mm-hmm.
Hahaha
Okay, so I was debating about telling this story because, you know, I'll keep the names anonymous to protect everyone involved, but like I have to tell you this. So this was ⁓ about a year ago. I had a ⁓ staff member who, it was just out of line. Okay, it's just out of.
order, out of line, all the things. And me, default, conflict averse, right? God was like, I'm getting ready to teach you how I want you to do this. I'm going to use this moment to tutor you on how I want you to lead, right? And it was not something I could do quietly. It was something I could not do behind the scenes because it was
the person had just put themselves before everyone. It was very public. They're out of orderness. ⁓ In fact, I was in the middle of an executive leadership team meeting when this very egregious interaction took place. So was something that was very disrespectful. was just raw all the way around.
So now this can't be a quiet conversation behind closed doors, right? Because it is now on stage, it's now very, and so looking back, of course, I'm understanding now that God was not only tutoring me on how to lead, but he was using me as an example to my leadership team. This is another way to do it. So what the Lord, so basically I'm in a,
a meeting, I am actually redirecting one of the leaders and I'm saying, hey, your team members such and such could be doing so much more, so much better if you had done the things that I said to do. Right. This is what I'm, I'm in the midst of saying this in the meeting. Right. And, you know, the team member such and such has so much more potential and can do.
This is what I'm saying in the meeting right. Well, as I think the enemy thought he would have had it, but as God would have it, that team member happened to be walking by the door the moment that I was saying their name.
And so they hear their name, I mean, don't even to this day, seriously, I don't even understand how it was heard. It was like, was yelling. I really believe I got was setting this whole thing up for this moment. And they busted in the meeting and, you know, went off.
And we're all sitting there like, oh, what is happening? Right. It was just, I had a whole out of place because I'm like, what is happening? You know? So the team leader that I'm saying, Hey, you're not getting the best out of your team member. And they have so much more potential because you're not doing that. I'm reading right through this person. They think that I'm talking about them. So they think that I'm being, you know, um, just, uh, I don't know.
Jen Porter (44:35)
You
Dr. Tamara Turner (44:54)
I'm just talking about them. And so they bust in, they have a little 10 second tirade to me, to me in front of the whole leadership team. So now, I just want to the stage. So they bust in, they go on their tirade, they go back out. And so now I'm in the middle of my team meeting. So the first thing Lord tells me to do is, ⁓
Finish my team meeting.
Jen Porter (45:27)
Okay.
Dr. Tamara Turner (45:27)
Like this whole thing has unraveled. I need to end this right. And the Lord's like, no, you need to finish. You need to complete everything that needs to be completed.
And so the team is looking, they're just so disoriented, right? And I'm saying, no, it's fine. No, that'll be done with. And so I go right on. finished my team meeting, right? Nobody's with me. Everybody is so thrown because they're like, how dare they? What are you going to do? Like I, I see the gears turning, you know, and I'm saying, ⁓ you know, the enemy is not going to distract. We got things to do. So that was the first little mini mini lesson, right?
But then here comes the big lesson. And this is God saying, this is how want you to lead. This is how I want you to execute authority. This is how want you to wield power. Okay. So after the meeting, and it's also to your point about God giving me like bite size instructions throughout the day, because I literally cannot, I can't, you know, I don't know what to do. I think that's the
Jen Porter (46:35)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (46:38)
It's a humbling part that you gotta, you don't know. You don't know. You could do what you've seen somebody else do. You can do what you've heard is a good thing to do, but you don't know what to do, right? After the meeting, I go in my office and I'm like, okay, God, what you want me to do about this? So I'm trying to pray. can't even, I mean, I'm so emotionally thrown.
that I'm having a hard time even hearing, because I'm like, OK, I'm ready to fire this person immediately. And I want to make it public, because I know this is what my team is wanting me to do. They feel good that their leader is strong. they want that type of leadership. So they're looking at me like, please do this thing. Then me, emotionally, I'm like, how
Jen Porter (47:22)
Hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (47:37)
dare you, right? So my bride kicks in. Who do you think you are? So I want to fire this person immediately, right? And there's no one anywhere that would have said that wasn't the thing to do.
Jen Porter (47:38)
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (47:55)
So I'm in my office, at this point, I've got tears in my eyes because I'm like, okay, how do I do this? What do you want me to do, right? And some people would say, well, I mean, it's simple, just, you know, calm and fire. What are you talking about? What is it? But not knowing what he wants me to do, not assuming that I'm just gonna do what I wanna do, but I know I need to hear clearly what you want me to do because...
The only reason I'm even sitting here is because you know that I'm going to do what you tell me to do. So I cannot, I can't not hear you clearly, right? I cannot make a move unless you tell me what to do. And so I got to figure out how to get rid of all my emotions so I can hear clearly, which is.
Jen Porter (48:27)
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (48:45)
really can't hear at this point. So I call in one of my executive leadership team members and I'm like, listen, I need you to pray. I just need you to pray. Period. We're in my office crying, praying because I cannot make a move unless you tell me what to do, And the Lord tells me.
In the midst of the crying and the praying, he tells me what he wants me to do. When I hear what he tells me to do, now I'm really a wreck. Because not only is it the opposite of what I wanted to do. So let me just tell you what the Lord is telling me to do. I can't even make this up. I have witnesses, OK? The Lord says, call him into your office right now.
I don't care what he's doing, call him in your office right now. And I want you to call two of your newest executive leadership team members into that office with you.
So now I'm on Front Street with these like brand new leaders and this guy who totally just out of the box, right? I wanted to have this conversation privately, right? And then be able to come out and say, I handled it, you know, because this is the leadership that we want. This is leadership. It's even, don't want to, I don't even, it's not my personality, but I wanna, I wanna be that too.
Jen Porter (50:17)
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (50:27)
Like deep down, that's what I've seen. That's what leadership is, right? Strong. People gotta respect you. Nobody can...
Jen Porter (50:28)
Okay.
Hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (50:38)
The lawyer tells me, call him in your office, tells me put the person's chair right here. So I have a big desk, really beautiful office. Says move away from the desk, come over here by the window, put the chair here for this leader, put the chair here for this leader, put the chair here for this staff member.
And you sit on the floor.
Ha
Jen Porter (51:15)
⁓ okay.
Dr. Tamara Turner (51:16)
Sit
on the floor.
Jen Porter (51:19)
my.
Okay. Okay.
Dr. Tamara Turner (51:27)
sit on
the floor in front of this staff member. Now, mind you, all the while, I already had everything I was getting ready to say. Okay, I knew the first phrase that I was going to say, and it was gonna be, and I quote, how dare you.
Jen Porter (51:44)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (51:45)
I already had that formula. So I didn't know
anything, but I knew that was going to be the first thing that I was going to say, right? Not so. Bill Laura says.
apologize to this man.
Sit on the floor, crisscross applesauce. ⁓
Now this is after me crying and praying, Lord, what do I do? He's like, okay, now I'm going to show you how I want you to do this. And now you got to be obedient.
in front of two leaders that you're training up to be leaders.
So I'm like.
I don't have a choice. It's the reason I'm sitting in this seat is because I'm going to do what he said do. So I tell him, assistant, get him in here. So everybody's like, ⁓ man, it's getting ready to go down. You know, and because that's what we want, we want that. And I'm not saying that there is not a time for that, but at this moment, that is not what the Lord told me to do.
Jen Porter (52:41)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (53:04)
Talking about authority, talking about power, talking about leadership, right? The person comes in, they're already, they're ready. They're ready for a fight because they know they are just totally out of the pocket and they're braced, right? And I'm like, you know, I have a seat right here. They sit down, they're like looking around because there's two other people in the room now, what's going on? And I say, I would like to apologize for...
that interaction that you just experienced. Can't quote everything, but I said, know, I can only imagine what you must have thought and how you must.
Jen Porter (53:44)
you
Dr. Tamara Turner (53:47)
And I completely understand the emotional outburst.
If you had heard the whole conversation, I'm sure you would have felt differently.
In fact, this was the whole conversation. I shared the conversation. I said, so I think that it was, ⁓ it was just perfect timing for this test. I think that it's beyond coincidence that the moment you walk by, I'm saying your name, you got to see that there's something, there's something more here. And so I go on this whole.
Jen Porter (54:26)
Hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (54:32)
And the leaders are sitting there like, what in the world?
Their mouth's on the floor, they're just like, what is happening? And so is the person, right? What do you say to that? How do you respond?
I'm literally sitting on the floor looking up at this person. And I know, of course, looking back, he was teaching me humility. And that is going to be the hallmark of my leadership. It is going to be the way that I lead. It's going to be the only way that I'm going to be able to do this thing with these people.
Jen Porter (54:54)
Gosh.
Mm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (55:19)
This territory this assignment now There may be another way to do it somewhere else with another group of people in another assignment in another territory but for this thing this is how you have to do this and I'm like I Feel so amazed right my my leaders are I'm sure just Disappointed thrown a fin. They're so offended for me Because it's like you're not gonna talk to my leader like that
Jen Porter (55:45)
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (55:48)
And you know, they're offended for me. And so we have this whole conversation. And the person, I can see that they received it, that they knew it wasn't some type of stunt, right? That it was like, this is real. This was not anything that anybody in the room expected, but this was real. And of course, the atmosphere in the room completely shifted.
By the end of the conversation, this person is apologizing profusely multiple times. This person is ⁓ like, know, it's not even, that's not even my character that I, like, I don't even know what they, they are grappling with, like, how did I end up here? You know? And my team leaders who are sitting in the room, you know, flanking me.
Jen Porter (56:25)
to
Dr. Tamara Turner (56:48)
are just taking it in. They're seeing what just happened in the room. They're seeing the power of
a servant leader of humble leadership of what it looks like. I am too, mind you. We're all, we're all observing. ⁓ okay. Sit on the floor in my office.
Jen Porter (57:04)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (57:18)
you know, in my suit on the floor. Like it was such an image. There are prophets that will do things physically to teach, you know, the heart of God and what God is saying. And I really felt like that was that was one of those moments because I'll never forget it. The people in the room will never forget it. Right. I'm sharing it right now. Like it was yesterday because that lesson.
that tutoring of how to lead. And I can already know the thoughts that you're having, right? Because this is counterintuitive. This is not leadership based on what we understand authority and power to be. That's not power. But that was powerful. That was more powerful than anything I could have done. That was the most power because
Jen Porter (58:08)
Wow.
Dr. Tamara Turner (58:19)
What I said and did determined the atmosphere, determined the outcome. Like that's power, right? That's control. That is actually power and control. The easy thing would have been my emotional response to start with, how dare you? And then let's lock in and let's have this fight, right? Out of control. No idea what the outcome is going to be.
Jen Porter (58:29)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Right.
You know what? What I see so I'm seeing what happened in that example and it's a gosh such a vibrant. Example of. Not only a different kind of leadership, but what I saw you do in that is you stopped to pray. And I literally don't think people do that. It is a discipline. It is a practice to when we.
are confronted with something to stop in our day and actually pray. That's number one. Then you remind yourself of your position. That the reason that you're there is because of God. It's not because of you. So you're reminding yourself of kind of the agreement that you have with God. Right? Like we've already established I'm going to do whatever you tell me to do.
Dr. Tamara Turner (59:42)
huh. huh.
Jen Porter (59:48)
I have set my heart on being in my mind on being obedient to you. So you know, and let me remind myself, that's where we are. That's what we do. That's what we do. And then exactly.
Dr. Tamara Turner (59:58)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's how this thing works. This is the only
way this, cause I wouldn't have even said yes to this if you didn't tell me to do it. Cause I, I did not want the position. Let's be clear. It's like somebody's got to do it. Okay. Who's going to do it? Like, you know?
Jen Porter (1:00:08)
Right.
And then the other thing.
Somebody else, send somebody else.
And then, but what we haven't really talked about today is power under authority, power submitted, submitted power. You just demonstrated what it looks like to hold the position, the power, right? You're in the authority as the CEO.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:00:49)
Right.
Jen Porter (1:00:50)
an ultimate leader of that group. And yet you submitted yourself. You you bowed down to the authority.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:00:58)
Yeah.
So let me say two things about that really quickly. one of the first.
I would say prophetic words that I ever received in college. It all happened in college. I'm sure I was like 18, like literally just going to college. The Lord showed me me and I was bowing down like this and he was putting a crown on my
And he said, you have to bow in order to receive the crown. That was the first prophetic word I've ever received in my life. Because he knew that pride was going to be an issue for me. And he's like, I got to get you, I got to get you where you so that you can fulfill your purpose. You got to get this lesson right here. That's the and I'm back to that because it's not as if I mastered that by any means.
Jen Porter (1:01:53)
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:02:01)
This is a daily submission, right? ⁓ That image would come back up over the years. This is now what, 30 years later from that first. So that's one. That, you know, to knight someone, they've got to kneel before the throne, right? You don't stand to receive anything. And then two, and this is probably
Jen Porter (1:02:22)
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:02:31)
This is another part of the story. And I just thought about it when you were saying that. I didn't realize that some other executive leadership team members. So first of all, when I went in my office to pray and cry and all the things, I thought my door was closed. Apparently, either it was a jar or there's a window in my door. But I believe the door was a jar. I thought it was closed.
so much going on that moment, I couldn't tell you. Apparently, other Executive District members observed me in my office with that other leader praying. And I'm literally, I'm like this, like tears just because I don't know what to do and I am so emotional about what I want to do. And I'm just praying and crying. And this is not something that I would have...
Jen Porter (1:03:12)
Hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:03:28)
ever done in front of them, right? ⁓ Later on, don't know if this was weeks later, one of the leaders said, you know, ⁓ she was telling me about how powerful that whole interaction was. Of course, you know, the team found out, you know, what was said and done and all the things. ⁓ And the person eventually was separated from the organization before the end of their contract.
but it was not what I, you know, how and when and what I was thinking, nor anyone on my team. She said, I saw you in your office before you met with that person, crying and praying. you know, I'm sure I was, I'm sure I was praying in tongues. I couldn't tell you. It was very, very intimate moment with God that I did not think anybody else saw or heard.
Jen Porter (1:04:28)
Yeah.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:04:30)
And this person does not ⁓ profess to be a believer. This person, you know, is just not something that I would have, a moment I would have shared with this particular person. And then, so when they told me that they saw that they were referring to it in passing, like, and, know, it really taught me da da da da da. So they're talking about what it taught them. And I'm saying, ⁓ wait a minute, you saw that? You heard that? And so I'm thinking, OK, God.
Jen Porter (1:04:53)
Hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:04:59)
I didn't know all the things you were doing in that moment. I thought everything that you were doing was happening inside that office.
He was doing so many things on so many levels that if I had not submitted, I don't know. I don't even know.
Jen Porter (1:05:09)
Yeah. Yeah.
That is, that's why I believe our obedience is so important because we don't know, but there are other people like, you know, for the sake of others that he does these things. And we may be hindering something that God wants to do in other people that we'll never know about, but we have to do our part of
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:05:23)
Ugh.
Yeah.
Jen Porter (1:05:47)
putting ourselves out there, being obedient, submitting, look, be willing to look foolish in the eyes, in the world's eyes, right? I mean, that's like the ego's got to go because we know that God's authority is fully trustworthy. He is completely faithful. He is perfectly intelligent and He is intricately
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:05:53)
Ugh. That part.
Woo!
Yeah!
Jen Porter (1:06:15)
Designing and architecting everything in this world. So all we, all he's asking us to do is just trust him. Just be a big man. Just trust him.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:06:25)
And that when
you do that...
Now you are my leader. Now you're my leader. You're not just a leader. You're my, I'm putting you over this territory. So you're my leader. Now you actually can do what you're called to do. And thank God you don't have to figure it out because you don't know enough. You're not organized enough. You don't have enough time. You don't whatever, fill in the blank.
Jen Porter (1:06:38)
Yeah.
That's right.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:06:59)
You're not smart enough. You can't see around corners. So you can. That's my word of encouragement, especially to women of God, you know, who we tend to, you know, we're leaders, we're leaders of ourselves, of our families, of our homes. But in the public spaces of leadership, you know, we tend to kind of like, OK, you know.
Jen Porter (1:07:03)
right.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:07:27)
someone else do it you know that takes
then you don't have to be whatever it is you think it is have to be. And you have the power to be. Like the power to be the leader he's calling you to be is from that source of power, it's imputed power. So I don't have the responsibility to figure it out. Thank God. There will be many more leaders that will step into leadership when we understand that.
Jen Porter (1:07:37)
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he does. He holds the responsibility.
Yeah, so good. I want to leave the listeners with a scripture because we want to, we always want to root our understanding in scripture, right? Lean on that. And so this comes from 2 Timothy 1, 7. So 2 Timothy chapter 1 verse 7, for God did not give us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:08:08)
You
Jen Porter (1:08:34)
love and a sound mind. He is trustworthy. He has given those things to us. So when we don't feel that way, that's okay. We lean on what is true because he said it. So he has given us a spirit of power, love and a sound mind. And I want to leave with a blessing. So may you walk boldly.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:08:49)
Yeah.
Jen Porter (1:09:02)
in the authority of Christ, knowing His Spirit empowers you, His love secures you, and His presence goes before you in every step.
I'm going to say it one more time. May you walk boldly in the authority of Christ, knowing His Spirit empowers you, His love secures you, and His presence goes before you in every step.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:09:30)
In name I receive it. Amen.
Jen Porter (1:09:33)
Tamara, thank
you so much for sharing your story, your heart. mean, I just like fireworks go off inside of me. I mean, what God is doing. ⁓ So if people do want to reach out, maybe they want to partner with Quality Education Academy. Maybe they want to know more about your leadership. Maybe they want you to speak on leadership. How can they find you?
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:09:59)
⁓ So certainly at QESchools.org, our website, www.qeschools.org, ⁓ that ⁓ email there actually goes directly to our school email or my personal email, which is T. Turner, T-T-U-R-N-E-R, at QESchools.org. ⁓ And I would love to share about this. I truly believe that I am called to...
Jen Porter (1:10:21)
curious.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:10:29)
Help us with this leadership thing I do.
Jen Porter (1:10:35)
In God's way. Thank you so much. Until the next episode, the lioness in me sees the lioness in you.
Dr. Tamara Turner (1:10:36)
in his way.