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In this episode of Tough Talk, join the hosts as they dive deep into the real side of sports. Featuring special guests Charles Ward, who was recently inducted into his high school's Hall of Fame, and Coach Rod from Team Loaded, the discussion covers a wide range of topics. These include the balance between winning and player development, the impact of travel and high school basketball, and the essential elements for nurturing young athletes. The episode also features a lively debate on the top NBA and college players of all time. Tune in for an unfiltered conversation about what it takes to succeed in the world of sports.
00:00 Welcome to Tough Talk, Episode Three
01:16 Giving Flowers to Charles Ward Skywalker
03:01 Introducing Coach Rod from Team Loaded
06:24 Discussing Team Dynamics and Tryouts
26:22 The Importance of Player Development
33:32 The Importance of Having a Floater
34:14 Balancing Development and Winning
35:11 The Reality of Player Development
36:45 Challenges in High School and AAU Basketball
38:23 The Role of Coaches and Parents
40:04 The State of Basketball Today
54:46 Top 5 NBA and College Players Discussion
01:03:17 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Creators and Guests
Host
Guest
What is Tough Talk: The Real Side of Sports?
Tough Talk: The Real Side of Sports is a show built for athletes, coaches, parents, and everyday people who value honesty, discipline, and growth.
Each episode goes beyond the highlight reels to explore the mindsets, habits, and hard truths that drive success ā in sports and in life. We donāt sugarcoat. We donāt dodge hard topics. From mental health and leadership to performance and perseverance, we talk about what others are afraid to.
Hosted by Michael Smith, Tough Talk is about becoming stronger ā mentally, physically, and emotionally ā both on and off the court. Whether youāre chasing championships or just trying to become your best self, this is your locker room for real talk, authentic growth, and accountability.
Iron sharpens iron. Welcome to Tough Talk.
003 Tough Talk
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Mike: [00:00:00] we are back. We back. Welcome to Tough Talk, episode three, which is crazy.
Real side of sports. We all here with the great chuck and my man, coach Rod from Loaded. Yes, sir. I'm, I'm gonna let him introduce himself real quick, but, um, before I do that, I gotta give my flowers to my guy. He, he, he, right now he's, he, you know, he's setting up his date. Later and all that, so, oh my God. Now I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, wow.
Chuck: He's outta control. I'm just,
Mike: Hey, hey. Whoever. His, his Mrs. I'm, I'm just, I'm just playing. I'm not one of those neither[00:01:00]
Chuck: Yo, um, like Cam Newton the other day, so you Okay. I and Chad was talking the other day. You don't wanna be like Cam Newman, know what I'm saying? Cam, he only got one. That's what they all say on camera.
Mike: Huh? You got it. That's what they all say on camera, man. Know what I'm saying, man. But listen, um, we wanna give my flowers to my man Charles Ward Skywalker, um, no flowers, man.
He was inducted to his high school Hall of Fame. Oh, ain't
Chuck: you sweet,
Mike: Michael. Come on, man. You know, we gotta do that. Appreciate you. My, I we got do Thatt. Call me Michael though. Don't call me Michael though, man. Hey, yo. You got some boxing gloves in here, man? Come on, Chuck. Now, then you go Kobe, me Sweet Paul.
Chuck: Oh my God. Here you go, bro. Thanks Mike. Appreciate that. Oh,
Mike: see, look, look, look. But yeah, we gotta give him his flowers, man. You know, that's, that's, that's a big monument. Um, being inducted. They gonna retire your jersey? I hope so. You hope so, bro. They better do something if they, if they put you in the hall of fame.
I hope so. You know, [00:02:00]
Chuck: I guess one brick
Mike: at a time,
Chuck: I guess.
Mike: But I remember you telling me
Chuck: like, it should have been long time ago. Long time
Mike: ago.
Chuck: But you know, as we here now, shout out to the two before me. My cousin Quentin Co. And I call him my cousin, Henry Hall of Famous. They, they not in there. They should be.
They should be. I think he was selling me that. Yeah, I think he, Randy Wooder. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah. They should be. I, you know, I'm grateful. I'm, I'm, I'm honored. But, you know, I'm a, I'm gonna show them their love too, which means you should have access to the gym whenever you want. Right. Yeah. You know, I'm gonna de that anyway.
Mike: So where, where, where's the school at? Just tell 'em a little bit and then we, and then we going, we gonna get it going too. That's in
Chuck: North Myrle Beach, South Carolina. Um, copy, copy. I'm on the north side of Myrtle Beach. So a lot of people done been to that gym. That's big is huge now. Sh got two and a half gyms in there now, so For real.
Mike: That's how,
Chuck: okay, well we got Hall
Mike: of Famers in the building. Um, we got Hall of Famers building. So that's, that [00:03:00] story's good. So Rob, talk to me, man. Introduce yourself real quick. Rob. Rod over there being shy, man. Come on, you from Henderson. You know, I thought about Henderson Jazz Clutch. I know about Henderson, man.
Let's talk about
Coach: it. Hey man, I'm just chilling man. But I'm Coach Rod. I coach for team loaded. Also own this way. We do sports with my right hand man. K is now that's my brother. He we both own that. And then this what we do. And just for sports though, it's just for, this is what we do in general, man.
Help kids out. Yes, sir. Help adults or whatever. My brother own a barbershop too, so like, we all bought everything, you know what I'm saying? Trying up from the ground up from the community. We about to have a Turkey drive and all that.
Mike: Right, right. Where that's at? That's in Henderson. That's in
Coach: Henderson.
November 23rd. Take care of. And my boy DJ Burns.
Mike: Okay. Yes sir.
Chuck: Very fellow. I just seen he signed back with a swarm too. Yes. Saw, I saw, I gonna see
Mike: him on tomorrow at the meet and greet. What is he doing though? Like where was he before that? He was overseas. He was overseas. Was in K? Yeah, I saw him twice. Yo, I saw him in the mall.
Huge. I don't wanna say, I don't wanna say [00:04:00] something else, but Yeah, he did. Yeah. Yeah. He loved about 40 though. Yeah. Huh? I'm talking about tall, like I ain't talking about Oh, big. Both of them big. He loved about 40 though. Um, and then I seen him in Vegas in the summer league. Oh yeah. Well I guess that's the time was, so we went to Vegas team Tough.
Went to Vegas. Yeah, it was for, um, what's that though? What was that? The big time tournament? Yeah, big time tournament. That's with Gary. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some Gary, Gary Charles. Gary. Charles. Yeah. We went there. Um,
Coach: yeah, that's
Mike: definitely
Coach: where he was at. He was playing with Cleveland.
Mike: Yeah. So he was down there.
We was on Fremont Street. Um, amazing place. I don't know if y'all ever been to Vegas. Nah, I ain't never been to Vegas before. Go to Fremont Street a couple times. Different San, different sandwich. Um, but I saw him there. Good dude. Show the kids some love. Took a picture. What? So always showing love, you know what I'm saying?
Wasn't too high, too low. He was just right. Right. He from the
Chuck: crib, he South Carolina. What you think I
Mike: he from Rock Hill? You know what I'm saying? I the cat, my boy. Chill out. Chill out man. Chill out. Chill out. Um, but you know, congrats to him too. Congrats to him. Congrats to him. Um, but yo, [00:05:00] listen man, this, this is episode three, like ain't nothing scripted.
Um, we gonna just chop it up. We gonna talk, we gonna have fun. Um, I got some drinks. I don't know if these things are healthy or Nah. I keep hearing they healthy. I keep hearing they not healthy. That's why I got Propel. This is the healthy stuff. Lemme see this. Lemme see this, this, this, this. The healthy stuff right here.
Alright. Over this. Just to keep you going. This to keep you going. Right? Keep going right now to keep you going boy. You
Chuck: gotta have one. I have one on the way, on the way here. Hey, hey. Where my camera? We looking for sponsorships too? Hey, you see what's on? You see it? You see it? Propel? Did that say he seat?
Mike: Of course it do that. Didn't LeBron see like that? Come on man. Nah, I ain't got nothing to do with him. Come on man. Nothing to do with him. After your boy had his thinking, he was, you know, taking why the she
Chuck: know what I'm saying?
Mike: Yeah. Sponsor about the league. My brother. See that? No, we definitely looking for sponsorships.
So, you know, and this, this was not, this was not it, but you know, this is, this is the, you know, the default. Sports drink to buy. [00:06:00] You know, you look for Gatorade and Propel, it's, we taking all brands. You see 'em
Chuck: up here.
Mike: I don't even, I got this from Whole Foods, man. Hey, look,
Chuck: we looking for you a recover, whoever send it, facts, it'll be sitting on the table.
Mike: It'll be sitting
Chuck: on the table.
Mike: So yo, we gonna get, we gonna get into some, some, some basketball, man. Um, look raw, laughing, man. It's, it's so many angles we could take with this. And, um, for the viewers, tryouts, no tryouts. You know what's crazy? Like, I'm not even doing tryouts on my 20 20 17. You shouldn't, shouldn't, you should take it back to old school.
Know, but you know what's crazy? Old school? You mean old school? Select? Well, that's what I, I just, I just, it just made more sense to do it that way this year. Just to recruit 'em,
Chuck: you just to
Mike: recruit 'em. But, you know, and here, and here's the, here's the issue with that is. How do you do that? You know what I'm saying?
Like, it's so many different teams. How many schools in
Chuck: your, how many schools in your [00:07:00] area? That's not, that's not the problem. Too many. No, no, no. This, this, it's a lot. But I'm giving you the blueprint. How you remember how you, you, I don't know, you might not have been recruited like that for, that's how they was selected.
No, that's Nah,
Mike: that's not how we recruit. We just like, so you talking about Riverside
Chuck: and Gauchos? Well, yeah. That's, y'all was in New York. Yeah. So it is a little, it's a little different. But y'all still was picked from the pick of the litter from that. Nah. You
Mike: had to go. I
Chuck: ain't
Mike: no pick.
Chuck: I mean, but you, you had to be, you were selected to come to a workout.
Yeah. Based upon your body of work. Right, right, right. So, but so we had this conversation. It was different before. I know it was different before, but you know, that's why it used to be called a u Select one. Coach would go to all the schools. Yeah. And pick you. He'll go to Joe's school. Oh, he ain't got nobody over there.
They go to Mike school. He ain't got nobody over there. He'll go to this school. It might have two people there. You got eight people go on the bus and go.
Mike: But so I like, so like, so I, the reason why I decided to do it that way, and I don't know if I'm getting off topic here, but it's because of [00:08:00] last year, right?
So you always, you know, you, you've been doing this for a while, so what I'm about to say is nothing new to you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, you never have the same team every year. Never. I mean, you've read it like if you do have the same team, you are adding a peace. Yes, for sure. You are adding a peace.
If you do have the same team, is that's the positive bond. The negative is you lose people because we already talked about that, right. Delusional parents. Um, and we were just talking about that earlier. The nonsense, nonsense and just hating all kind of stuff. Right. Like not enough minutes, you know what I mean?
Lack of accountability. You just never, I never had the same team every year. So with this year, the 20, 20 17, and I don't wanna make this about me, we got, we got guests here. I just felt like it, it, I had to choose the ones that's gonna be committed. Good players. You don't really have to be, you know what I'm saying?
Like talented, just somewhere where I can work with, but you gotta have a goal. You gotta have passion. You gotta have a purpose. Like, [00:09:00] you can't just be saying, yo, I'm gonna travel. I want play. Yeah. You trying to do this for a living. Right. Right. Like I got, I got like three or four kids who wanna play college ball.
Yeah. And then you got three or four that's just out there. 'cause they, they think it's cool. They wanna go. They, they want what comes with it. They think it's ain into their Halloween. They think it's a costume party. Yeah. Yeah. They think it's a costume party. I just wanna wear the jersey. I wanna put it on the gram.
Yeah. And we recruit those kind of dudes and it just messes up the whole joint. So right now, like, I'm gonna be honest with y'all, and they gonna see this episode like I got like a legit five.
Chuck: That's, do you hear what I just said? How many people, when you start doing that, you only have about eight by eight, nine people.
I'm already looking for eight. Yeah. That's all you need. Because again, you can't play if you have a team of 15, bro. Yeah. And you got that many good players,
you ain't gonna have enough minutes. I know, I know. So you're doing right and you're gonna catch some backlash. So just so
Mike: is that how y'all been doing it? Like see, that's what I'm saying about [00:10:00] community man. Like nobody teaches you this. You gotta go for pain.
Chuck: It ain't, and y'all again. Okay. So you know I don't even do mine no more.
I told you before mine like mercenaries, I just tell 'em to go here. Go there because it don't even matter. I don't care. You not gonna get recruited from that. You just gonna get exposure. See what I'm saying? So I disagree. I mean, and, and it is, it is no problem with it, but I disagree. No college coaches.
You show me one person who got a scholar scholarship just by playing a u trouble basketball. Not just, you got that what I'm talking about. Not just, but it's definitely, yeah, but most of 'em just think that, that it was No, no, no, no. Because they can't, we had it, we had this's debate. Conversation matters though.
It it exposure wise, but they want to see you if you can run a set in some type of environment where it is not going to go your way. And if you're coachable,
Mike: you saying so all you said, so you saying a a u so let's say everything is circuit now. Yeah. So you think so a, a u circuits are hurting or helping
Chuck: kids?
It both because again, everybody think they kid good and that's, that's false. Then you're putting these kids out there that are not [00:11:00] prepared to be on the circuit. So it is looking like you have some good kids and then you got some tabletop Well, we know what that is, but that's, that's,
Coach: I don't say that doesn't, I don't think that mean they hurting now.
I just think it ain't gotta be
Mike: prepared. No, but what, what he's saying is. Why, why are they playing? No, no. What he's saying is the kids that you put in there that are, that are, are you hurting them or they can't play? They're not supposed to be in there. Yeah, they ain't, that's called what?
Chuck: Oh, that's a money grab.
Money grab. Right. But that's how it is. That's why, that's why I say, is there a money grab when you playing for the school? Basketball Again, you gonna, sometimes, sometimes, but you, you, you want know how's a money grab because you got a product that's worth grabbing the money. 'cause it's a school. See what I'm saying?
Most of these a, let's just keep it above. So school is better than aau. That's pretty much what you're saying. In some instances, again, a travel basketball is just for what it is, just for exposure. So let ask you this though.
Mike: So if you feel like, I don't think it's better than, than travel ball. I think it's, I think I see a
Chuck: lot of these AAU teams that can't, bro, they, bro, they, they can't get they way with a paper bag sitting around and make [00:12:00] think something.
Mike: Look, that that's, and Rod, you could chime in on this. That's my problem. That's what I'm saying about when it comes to recruiting, right? You seeing all of these teams that can't throw rock through a window. It's because. They played for like a loaded and, you know, whatever you wanna call my team, you know what I mean?
I feel like we, we are a really good program right? Under me because I don't, I don't do what everybody else does, right? Like I played on a high level. So I teach that, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not just taking money. Like I teach, I teach what was taught to me right when I went overseas, when I played for Nebraska, when I played for Shaw, when I played for Paris Junior College, when I played for her.
Like I give them that,
Chuck: right?
Mike: I don't, you know, so most of these programs just roll the ball out, run, go, play. I don't, I don't do that. I don't do that. So my, my thing is when they, when these kids get to me and they're not used to that kind of coaching, then now they go build that team up that can't throw a rock through a window.
Yeah. That's what happens. And that's what you see. So I don't, and then, and then it is kind of like, well, how, how could [00:13:00] I say this Rod? Like, am I that person. Because which person I built, I built the team. Right. And it wasn't because my son couldn't throw a rock through a window. It wasn't because of that.
It was because a whole organization just took they whole
Chuck: team out. That's why I say it's, it's a dope. So you're at the end of the day, bro, it's never gonna be a, it is not a right or a wrong, wrong answer. But that's, I said, but there's two sides to the coin. So you have to be able to understand both sides of the coin is hurting about high
Mike: school and travel.
Both of 'em. Yeah. I think both
Chuck: of them is needed. They, they should, one hand should watch the other other. Yeah, that's a fact. Exactly. But it is not. Why is that? Because egos, I'm gonna go with ego. That we could, you could leave with that. We could play, we can play. What's the shit with old boy on it when he turned to the jeopardy.
Not jeopardy. Family feud. Turn the wheel. Turn, turn the thing. So that might be, I thought you was talking about if you got 10 answers up there, if we had 10 answers there, that'd probably be number seven. Yeah. Ego. Ego. You know what the first thing is? You talking about Steve Harvey said, yeah, ego [00:14:00] right there.
Probably be number five. So what's up? What's up? Alright, so that's number five. So what's number one? Two, one and two would be this right here. Then you know what, I'll take it back. Ego will probably be closer up to the top because most of these teams are started off what? Egos. 'cause they're mad 'cause son or daughter didn't get, have it their way.
You see what I'm saying? So I ha I would have to retract my statement and say, that would probably be higher up on the list because a lot of these teams are created because they're a child or something didn't go their way, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now there are some teams also that, like you, you, you, you have a son that plays.
Yeah. Okay. So you could, you don't like bad basketball, so. Again, it's the catch 22 that your son plays, but you didn't take him from nowhere to go. I'm mad 'cause he didn't do the, I'm gonna start this, you know what I'm saying? So
Mike: I'm gonna let Rod chime on on that. Like, like, like how do you, how do you feel about, about that?
Like high school and we talked about this last time and I wasn't even an angle. Like I said, we just [00:15:00] talking basketball. We just talking basketball. So like we said, ego is one of them. I'm really big on that because I've been, I've witnessed a lot of stuff, not saying where I'm at right now. 'cause the coaches where I'm playing at right now, they're, they're good coaches.
You know, I said no, nobody's perfect, but they're good coaches. But from what I'm seeing across the board, like games that I go to, parents that I'm speaking with, the ego is hurting the kids because it's like they got some kind of shield up against travel ball. You get what I'm saying? Like really like, it's just like if travel ball doesn't matter, this is all that matters.
I don't, I don't feel. That should be the case.
Coach: No, I definitely think we need both. Yeah. Because like you said, the exposure piece, I don't care what school you are being a mount verb or something like that. Yeah. You're not out there on ES, ESPN every day, you know what I'm saying? Right. And you circuit ball, Puma, Nike, Adidas, whatever, under Armour, all that's gonna get you exposure or you gonna get exposed.
Yeah. Either you gonna show that you're good. Yeah. Or you gonna say that you don't, you don't belong to be here. Right. . And when you get the exposure, it's like, oh, where he been at? Hey, he was just in the [00:16:00] backyard.
Y'all just overlooked him. You feel what I'm saying? So I'm
Mike: all about the exposure piece. So Rogers hit it on the nail. Let's talk about my young boy Nilan rush. Right. Let's talk about him. Right. And I'm not, I'm not taking nothing away from the programs. Right, right. That he was at before he got to me.
Right. Um, he wasn't valued where he was at. And I, you know what I'm saying? Like he wasn't valued. It was just things that were going on. That, that, that he was overlooked. Mm-hmm. But okay. Put a
Chuck: pin that
undervalued and that also come from lack of development because that's, that's, that's the other side of the coin where I'm talking about where, where you say it hurt him at. Mm-hmm. That's why it hurt him, because a lot of these programs mm-hmm. Can't they, they don't have the, the, again, it is all revert back to money.
Mm-hmm. You don't got the money to have the facilities to do the [00:17:00] development. So you can do three days. We doing skill work two days, we doing others yet, and then we going to play on the weekend. You got two days mm-hmm. Where you gotta do skill work and the basketball and then you going to play. You might have and outta them two days, you might have half the people show up.
You see what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. So with with, because I know we was talking about him before. He gonna get overlooked, especially if he ain't got nobody there, develop him. So then when he fell in your lap right, you see something nobody else didn't see. Right. That's because again, these people that are what I told you before, you know, you gotta have driver's license to operate motivators.
Right? You gotta have people that have some type of experience in something so you can see certain things. 'cause you're gonna be able to see certain players' movements. You've played that position. You've played like, hold on, let me
Mike: wait a minute.
Chuck: I, but I, I do believe
Mike: that the person did have a license, but the person was just blinded by.
Mm-hmm. He, he was on
Chuck: a hype train. [00:18:00]
Mike: Mm-hmm. Yes. It's a lot of that too. You groupies, they're grown groupies. Yes. It's a lot of grown groupies, but I think this person know that and it, it's, no, it's nothing to that. It's just when that happens and then, and then when you, when you are a travel coach and then you on a.
Like a Nike team or a team that had, that's being sponsored by a high name or whatever. It's pressure because you gotta win. Definitely pressure. It's pressure. 'cause you gotta win. So it's natural to be like, yo, that's a player. Give 'em to me. You know what I'm saying? Like, I need to, I need to get 'em. But what, what some coaches don't understand is that it'll hurt your team for sure.
Because, because the player is good. Doesn't mean that he's good for your team. But it's, we gotta stop, we gotta, we gotta stop throwing. We gotta stop throwing that R around so Lucy too. What you mean? You just said 'cause the player is what? Good. Yeah. It's not a lot of good kids are, these kids are like,
Coach: yeah, you're good.
And our good is probably a little different. I'm telling you, these kids, some kids who probably don't think good, I think, you know what I'm saying? So I think they're, they're okay. I think good is a opinionated for real. What do you think? What do you [00:19:00] think about that? I do. How, how is a good opinionated?
Well, well, because he might think somebody That's good. You might not think
Chuck: he good in high school. You a hard dude. You a hard dude to play, man. I'm not really, you just gotta be consistent because to be good in my eyes in high school, it's consistent. Then. Yeah. If you, if you one game, you got 18, the next three games you got seven or eight.
No bro, you just, okay, so I question if I, if I average 20 in high school and go average nine in a circuit doesn't mean I'm not good. That's, that's hard for me to understand. Because, because
Mike: system, system,
Chuck: there you go. Systems there is no, but there is no system in the circuit. Yes. But think about it. It depends.
Your wheels, the, the light is green when you on this, no, it's not. If you aging 20, okay, hold on. If you're averaging 20, it's more than just you. I know. But if you're averaging 20 in a system. That means sex. You're not going to get, and come on now, unless you, unless you him, Timothy, you're not going to get 15 to 20 shots in high school unless you just, you just own terrible.
That depends. [00:20:00] Depends on your school. That depends. What do you do? Because I know good. That's what the ego part can says. I, I get you, but again, you're not gonna average, you might get 15 to 20 shots. You're not gonna average 20. Listen what I'm saying now that depends. Averaging 20 and getting 2015 shots is not the same thing.
'cause you could take 15 shots and only have seven points. Right? Right. So, so I'm saying is if I play on a mediocre high school team,
Coach: right? Mm-hmm. Just because I wanna be that guy on him as you say. Right? I go average 25 there, cool. Then I go play for a loaded a CP
Chuck: three or United or something like
Coach: that.
And I average
Chuck: nine and nine. That mean I'm not good. I didn't, I didn't say you wasn't good, but that's hard for me to see that you're averaging nine and nine when, but even though you are on a mediocre team, if it's good because even if it's all about you on that mediocre team. They doubling and tripling you.
So now you're going to be on a circuit with other good players. That's what I'm saying. So that's, that number should go up. I, because now it's all one on one. I don't think, I don't think that. Why do you
Mike: think that though? Yeah. 'cause you just told me. You just, but you saying, so you saying the circuit. It's [00:21:00] like you, you're not by yourself.
No. But Right. You're not
Coach: by yourself. So your staff's gonna go, your shot's gonna be lesser, you gonna get more, you should
Chuck: be, you should be more efficient because again, that's why you average
Coach: in nine and
Chuck: nine instead of 25 and one. I say you have 25. If you have 25 in high school, now you gotta gimme 15 on it.
So you can't average of nine points. It depends. That's what I'm, that means you're shooting the ball three times. No, no, no, no, no. It depends. Average of nine. I'm not saying, I know average nine. You gotta the average, you gotta average like 11. So, I mean, and aging on average, don't even think they, they, but do, it's, it, it's hard to keep that on the circuit because you're not even playing that much.
So let me, let me, lemme tell you, I don't understand how you get an average synergy.
Mike: I didn't even know Synergy. Lemme tell you. Everything collects circuit stats. They do, but I don't know how would you do that. I don't, but I didn't, I didn't know that one of my plays, 'cause I got this, I got this stigma behind that.
And the reason why I did that. 'cause you gotta know your team, right? You gotta know your team. Right. My players. [00:22:00] I don't even let them go to the, to the, to the, the, to the stat book. To the, if you go to the stat book, we are holding suicides right there. Right. Because to me you're about the wrong thing. You worrying about the wrong things and that's gonna create a cancer because now people are gonna think you just here for For stats.
Yeah,
Coach: facts.
Mike: Especially if you celebrating after we lost after. Oh, okay. That's a, that's a no brainer for me. Right. So what I'm saying is the averages is not gonna be the same. It's not, I feel like it's, it depends on the situation because again, we got this tug of wall between high school and
Coach: a
Mike: and
Chuck: travel.
But, but you know what I'm saying? 'cause because both of y'all, I get scored a basketball. I get what you're saying. So you're not gonna tell me if you scoring 20 in high school and you scoring 20 in high school and let's just say I'm scoring 30. We on the same team and we playing on travel team. You ain't gonna still damn get your average.
You ain't gonna get mine might go down. 'cause guess what? I ain't gonna be working hard now because I got y'all too. I'm just, I'm giving you, but that's what I mean by [00:23:00] being that, that the word good for me. Consistency and it ain't even about scoring. So it's about impacting the game Other ways, like making it easier and I'll be watching a lot of this shit that it is like watching paint dry.
Yeah. I was at my nephew, the, the, the one I was at is the, the thing, Christmas time, the score was 47 to 46 or something. 45 to 46. I had two kids out. I, it's seven division one. All y'all get is 47 points. 47 points. You had low scoring game. You had six division one people going on, on unknown the floor, and all y'all could get is 47 points defense and it, all right, I'm gonna
Mike: let y'all
Chuck: Right, you was there so you know exactly what I'm talking about.
You know exactly what I'm talking defense. Get outta here man. Stop it man. We, so that goes, my next question goes to the first one. We gotta stop, we gotta stop settling this narrative, man. We gotta stop using that term loosely. No, no, no, no. Like these, they, these kids are, they could be even the one I got, I just posted other day.
I'm the [00:24:00] hard I, you see, I'm, well, I hate when he, I hate when I see that, but I do that just so you know what I'm saying. Like I'm acknowledging like, okay, but Brad ain't So, because it was division
Mike: one players on the court that the score should have been higher. Is that what you're saying?
Chuck: 46 to 47 and there's six of them out there.
Three on these things. Yeah. So,
Mike: yeah, because who's taking all the shots? Right? But, but, but, but here's my thing with that. You saying division one, like. You don't have to be a scorer to be a division one player.
Chuck: God, you gotta do something in high. They're in high school defense and ain't no who, who playing defense.
Who in high school playing defense. They might be with them, with em, with em y entertainer. Y'all right now. Name me a high school kid that's on all defense. Something somewhere. They don't even do that. Do they? Don't do they do. That synergy that how many, what's your plus mind? How many ball, how many de flexes did you get?
How many off? And there's a couple, two-way players out there though. Listen. Where they two way at. Listen, listen to me. Everybody is, I'm not gonna
Mike: do it because I'm gonna be gonna, I'm gonna sound biased about
Chuck: it. No, no, I, I know he [00:25:00] about sound, but he's been like, it is, he's been like that because he gets that from you.
Right? See what I'm saying? Everybody in line, he gonna pick you up in the back court. 94. Okay. So I seen a lot of guards. They letting you come down with a head of steam. He's not
Mike: I
Chuck: know you, I know when it's gonna
Coach: pick you up. 9, 4 2 though. That's what I'm saying. He was a freshman, took him to the state championship.
Cool. They lost by one. But that's what I'm saying. Outta two outta Mormon selling Durham, he gonna play two way out of the two You, the two You talking about 94?
Mike: I don't think so. I think so. I don't think so. He's gonna call you nine, four feet? I don't think so. I don't, I don't know who, I don't know who you offensively.
Ive seen it, but defensively, consistently. 94 feet dog. Never seen it. I'm just being, I'm just being honest. And the kid is amazing.
Chuck: What you talking about?
Mike: Yeah. I've never seen it. I've never seen it. I, I see it. I seen,
Chuck: so these kids had, they, they actually, that should be a lot of these kids I've
Mike: seen defense, but not 94 talking about out of bounds in your jersey.
Oh, no, no. Turning you, I talking about sit down and play d That's what I'm talking about. [00:26:00] Okay. Okay. In general does play defense. Yeah. I defense. He's a two way. He not defense. He not gonna pick you up every time does play defense. He's gonna sit down and guard man. You're not just about to give him 30.
What I'm saying does play defense? Does play defense. Defense. How, how
Chuck: many, how many out here are like that take? Absolutely. It's not a lot. Ain't take it personal. You're not about to fry. That
Mike: goes to my next question, right? Mm-hmm. That goes to my next question. Is winning or player development more important in youth basketball?
Chuck: Ooh. Winning or player development? You want me to go? I'll go last. You go first. Go ahead. You want me to go? Yeah. Player development. 'cause wins don't mean nothing. Okay. Go ahead. Talk about it. It's not worth, it's not worth anything. What is it? What, what is it worth? I want to, I got the middle school championship over there.
Who gives a shit? They go and only like, I, I I tell, like I tell those kids it will matter when you come back later.
Coach: Hmm.
Chuck: So, so how does that, how does, what do you say
Coach: later? You mean as, as far as when we,
Chuck: if you go off and go to college and, or if you [00:27:00] continue to play basketball or you get an opportunity to go play professional or a, in a professional career.
'cause everybody ain't gonna play basketball. Right. Later on when you come back to that middle school and you're giving back to that school that's winning. I won the first championship since 1947 years, blah, blah, blah. That's when, who cares? What, what again? I know Col College. When, when people say they win a a u championship, do you think who gives a, do you think them cars should care about that?
When you go to, when you go to college, all these, it's like being a five star player. You know what that's worth? You know who that, you know, you know what that's worth going to college. Nothing. That's a win though. That's a super win. It's a win. For who? For the recruiter and for the kid? No, it's not. The only person that wins is the person that recruits you.
You want tell you why? Wow. Because I get a bonus when you get to school. Guess how many stars you got? Guess zero. I
Mike: know that, but they still
Chuck: going to college. I get it's gonna college because we're in in
Mike: it
Chuck: for
Mike: that. That's
Chuck: the reason we're, but I know but in it, listen, the only [00:28:00] bonus comes to the recruiter.
I recruited a five star kid so I get a 25,000. Yeah, I get what you're saying. So they don't matter to you. 'cause guess what, it's how many kids in the transfer for two years ago and five Star All Americans. A lot. That's crazy. So what, what's the, what's the purpose of having it If you're gonna stay in school, you can't, you can't even function in school for a year.
'cause it's hard because you thought you was gonna go there and do it your way. 'cause somebody done sold you a dream and lied to you. Mm-hmm. And you thought you gonna go to super over here where this bread is way long. We dealing with millions over here. Not good. Oh nah, we gonna go and send you about your way.
'cause I like my house that's paid for. I like that Audi or that 600 or that Escalade or that Rolls Royce that's parked out there that get dropped off area. The new one area. Yeah. I'm saying you about your way and we gonna go over recruit, you get somebody's gonna listen so that start don't mean a thing.
Oh yeah, I know that story. You know what I'm saying? But that's what I'm saying. So, but the winning, so, [00:29:00] so the winning, even the winning, even the coaches will take a kid that's more developed than a kid that been on the winning team. 'cause you get there and like, bro, you can't make a left hand layup exactly off the right foot.
You still, you ball up off your left. You still left hand, left hood. What? You can't do a regular left hand lay as a junior. A senior. Do you know how many kids can't do that? Listen, yes. These kids are still left leg
Mike: and left hand. Listen to me. Come on bro. When you get a chance, come on bro. I want you to go to my, my, my team tough page.
Right? And I just posted it maybe, probably like last month. Seventh graders, when I tell you they all bored out of they mind because they, 'cause you're making 'em do that. All we do is right hand left, left foot, right hand layup inside, foot outside. Come on, bro. Right leg, left hand layup. And, and it's the hardest thing in the world.
Like in the world, in the world, bro, for them to kind of process that. But they're getting better. And I, and it, you know, I use the voiceover and everything. I said, nothing, nothing fancy here. Nothing fancy here. You deprogramming, right? All you [00:30:00] doing is doing the right. And then, so here we go. I did this years ago with my team.
I get a call from the parent, could you explain to me your philosophy behind your practices? I said, what do you mean? Well, my son tells me all y'all doing is lay layups. I said, yeah, that's right. She said, yeah, well, are we gonna move on to some of the more advanced stuff? Because I said, no, no, no, we're not.
I said, we're going to, we're gonna continue to do this until they get it right. Okay. I just, 'cause I don't really know how this go. I know you don't know how this go. That's why you need to, shit. I know you don't know how this go. So we going do this and this is like, they wanna get in the bag, go between the lays, the Kyrie, move the step back, this, that, and the third.
Y'all seen him? I seen him. He pulled him out. Stop. Put you on the table. On the table. Tamma me. Grab one of these cameras. Nah, nah. No. But seriously, no. Like, seriously, like, and, and, and, and, and we not moving on. We can't move on. I, I think I spent like, practice is like an hour and a half, two hours. I kid you not, we was on it for like [00:31:00] 35, 45 minutes.
You minutes. It's the ment piece though. You can't go. But,
Chuck: and, but that's what I'm trying to say. That's, but see now we'll go back to what the, the question. That's what I'm talking about. So that's the part where when I said you don't have time, you don't have time, time to do that. So, but you need it. But it's only certain programs that can do that.
So, but look to, to, to, to, and I can
Mike: do that. And also you're a skilled person too though. Yeah. But. You're a player coach that, that too, I want get into the bag. Like I want, I wanna do all of that stuff. Like sometimes I'll be like, I don't think we ever gonna get there. You get what I'm saying? But like, you have to do that.
So even my players now, like my 17 U team, they don't like training with me because they wanna do everything else because we will spend a hour on that one move, keeping it simple because you don't, you have to master that one move first, and then we move on and then you layer it. So they want to go, you know what I'm saying?
They wanna go where you, you get to the cone, you, [00:32:00] you punch, you cross over, you spin, move, drop that lay up. You know why, but you still haven't mastered the one dribble pullout. And that's where you gotta get
Coach: it in college.
Mike: You have to have that in college, bro. Rod, tell them again. Look at your, where's this camera?
Where's my camera at? Wait, where's this camera? You gotta have that in college. Listen bro, you gotta have that brand. You gotta have it. You gotta have it. Listen. And I played it and so I'm like, listen. And I think they be like, yo, he talking about Nebraska. Listen, I played there. Yeah. I, I'm coming from New York City where.
The bag is automatic. Gotta have it on it automatic. Like we grew up outta diapers with the,
Chuck: with the bag. With the bag. And guess what the coach told you when you can put that? You, you, you sit that down using none of that over here. You can sit that all the way down. You can sit that back in New York with you.
Listen, he sit, put in the care bag, put it
Mike: back, go go back to the locker. You actually, I want you to change. Yeah. Don't even wear the same practice again. And do those moves again. Wash that off. Wash that off. Now this one right, that one you did [00:33:00] right there. I want you to enhance that one right there because I like that.
I like that one. That's
Chuck: gonna be called your go-to move, Mike. But the other one that you did send that back with the receipt. But listen, fine. Between, between outta here.
Mike: No sir. You gonna see, go get Right. But they don't, they don't, rod, they don't train with me, which I don't take it no time, no kind of way.
Right. I don't take it no kind of way. As long as you working out and you do better. I'm saying when you get to me and you don't know, then you just wasted your money. You wasted your time and your energy. Right. Like I had a kid. Come to me the other day and he know who I'm talking about. I love him. You know what I'm saying?
I'm not gonna say his name. He couldn't, he couldn't make a floater. He's a guard. He couldn't make a floater. Had it in, you gotta have it in your bag. He couldn't do a floater. I never had a floater. So I said, you gotta have this. Like, I was always dunking on people, you know what I'm saying? I never had a floater in my life, ever.
So I said, yo, you gotta have this, like this. This is why I had the red shirt, right? Like, this is one of the reasons why I had the red shirt. Like I'm a guard six foot because you ain't get in there all the time. This is your, your backwards dunk, right? So we, [00:34:00] we, we working on this and I'm like, yeah, we, this is all we doing.
I mean, you, this is all we doing. But they don't, you know what I'm saying? But they then they wanna go elsewhere. But to, to, to, to, to, to connect back to the question, to the question. You got 10 players, two of them really need that development. Y'all on the circuit championship game, you putting 'em in, those two players that need the development.
No, why not? You just said it was all about development. It is, but you're not gonna develop
Chuck: during the game. Why not? Well go back to what you said. Why not? You just said it about development. What, what did you say when a parent called you and said what? I'm just saying, but what did you say though? The be your own question.
Mike: Circuit team is what does it matter? Honest Circuit team is. It shouldn't matter though, right? Unprepared. I just wanna get to the, the question. Okay. But
Chuck: I just, you, he just said you are answer you, you give, you serving your own self. I'm on. I'm not, I'm not. I wanna tell you where I'm going with this though.
I'm
Mike: play it back. Play it back though. 'cause listen, Joe, I, I ain't gonna lie, [00:35:00] I ain't gonna lie you throwing to the wall. I'm not what I've grown to, but I'm gonna recruit developed players already. Okay. Right. Nah, well I got you. You see what I'm saying? I got you. So, but they still, they still developing, right?
They still developing,
Coach: but when I go. 10 seconds in the game and I'm on a circuit and I gotta win. I I'm not putting Joe in down there. I know, I get that. That's why he's at the bottom of the bench and that's why I'm not even
Chuck: looking down there. I got that. But we're going to win. But dos a reality. This is the reality.
Because at the end, at the end of that bitch with Carolina, dude can, yes, LeBron. It's a good dude down there. Even in high school. High school, they down there with their uniform on. Never
Mike: take it off. I don't think you said it. I know you said it, you said development was was more important, right? It is. But you, but you, I understand the game philosophy.
Like, 'cause I'm not putting 'em in the game. Okay. Okay. IY ain't even let me finish. Okay. Well, I I'm not putting them in the game. I'm winning y'all. You I'm going. I'm not putting him in the game. Okay, so [00:36:00] let's do this. It is not rap, but,
Chuck: but you were talking about, see, you're talking about an individual game.
You're talking about, I'm talking about is champions. You talking about winning? Winning is winning. Winning is winning. Winning, winning.
Mike: Don't try, don't try,
Chuck: don't try to contact that. You said championship. Winning an individual game. Winning is winning. Winning. No it's not. Because I, 'cause guess what? By the end of the season I can have that player develop versus the first game of the season.
You can't wait. That don't mean he get the hell I saying he not important. He might by the end of the season. But look, but think about end of the season. That's what I just said. So at we talking about, we talking
Mike: about an entire season versus a one game. But this is what we dealing with. This is what we dealing with.
So let's say regular session, first session, I still gotta win. You know why? Because that regular session is gonna get you to where you want be at end. It's 'cause you gotta be in the top. Yes. You gotta, you know, you on the circle, you right. So that's what I'm saying. What's more important, winning or development?
Right now
Chuck: winning. But, but again, where we going with this? Winning. But see, okay, but see that, and that's 'cause y'all on that circuit. That's why I just told you winning. Now you have to Okay. High school. No, that's fine. It's fine. You gotta [00:37:00] win. You gotta win, bro. Gotta win. But all that's fine. But guess what?
You gotta, you, you gonna have to, if, unless you're not gonna win a state championship, first of all, if you don't got, you can't recruit in high school. So, yo, listen yo, yo, listen, I had a parent, you know I'm talking, I had a
Mike: parent.
Chuck: You can't, you can, but you can't
Mike: because somebody gonna tell it. Yes. Listen, somebody gonna tell it.
We, we on, we on a puma circuit first session. And we blowing this team out. You know how it go? You up 30, you gotta put the bench in. You got to you up 30. So we blowing, we blowing this team out. Why? You got to, there's a new rule or something, man.
Coach: Keep going man, bro.
Chuck: I was asking a question, Chuck. What is that?
Keep going. Who's the, you might wanna have a
Mike: travel goal team one
Chuck: day. I did. I beat, I'm gonna beat you until they start counting on paper. I don't care about none of that. What rule is that? Ain't putting Billy in down around. No, that's what I'm, you gotta put Billy in. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I don't, first of all, I gotta do a thing.
It's about the development you just told again, but I didn't have to do it. The development right there. No, it's not. But guess what? This but, so it's not winning then. But listen, what I'm, no, no. What I'm saying [00:38:00] is when, when he I, but I would put 'em in. But what you said I got to I don't gotta do anything.
No, no, no, no, no, no. Listen to me. Listen to me. So listen, he said got to, it's just not got to what Im saying. Answer. I know, but I would my, so I, I, I know what you're saying, but listen. My that, that when Billy get in. Yeah. Billy. I didn't train Billy. Understand. Oh, this ain't no, hold him up. Run it up. Yeah. So he gonna have the mindset as a starter.
He, he's gotta do it. He do something. That's the development part I'm talking about. Because again, when I had these young kids in middle school at St. Tim, we used to get rolled. I think it's, yeah. When we got, when I got 'em to the point where they start doing the rolling, roll them count on paper. I don't parents be y'all just coming out the game.
Miss Lay, do a push up over, they're doing sit, push up. Soon as they miss lay all go with 'em. We up 20 and I used tell them the only way y'all gonna get in if they up 20, you know what the bench start doing. Oh, they so engaged. They so involved. Yeah. Developing. Now you know what's going on. So when we get in the game, yeah.
Run it up now a bitch. Now the starters become bitch warmers. Now they in there cheering, run it up. But I'm, I'm going winning. [00:39:00]
Mike: So you go winning? Yeah. Somebody said you. So development winning. I, I say both. You need both. Can I choose both?
Chuck: You
Mike: can.
Chuck: I said if you can choose both. I'm going both too. It's not make sense, it's not a wrong, it's not a write up.
But if you say, if you had one to choose, I'm gonna choose the development. 'cause you're going to meet that. You thinking long term. It's what I'm saying. You're gonna eventually,
Mike: you're going to get there. So if you have one to choose, you're gonna go with development. Yeah. Because you gonna get
Chuck: there
Mike: eventually if you have one.
What are you choosing? If, if, if I have one to choose And can I add something else to that?
Chuck: No,
Mike: you got
Chuck: one to choose. You just a one to choose. You have one. You have one to winning because
Mike: you're,
Chuck: because look here, lemme get so, so this is, again, this is opinionated. This part is opinionated.
Mike: So basically on um, non circuit, you gonna develop it non circuit. What you going with? Winning a development, development development circuit?
Because no, oh, no. Circuit is pressure. You gotta win, develop circuit, you got
Chuck: circuit, you have to win. But I'm not recruiting anything that's not developed.
Mike: Yeah.
Chuck: Well it depends on the situation. That's what I'm saying.
Mike: It depends on the situation. Oh, you don't, I'm not in the same boat y'all. I'm [00:40:00] not in the same boat like y'all.
Well you, you know, if you on a why you're not, you're not
Coach: recruiting, non development. You're a nice guy.
Chuck: Stop being nice. Listen, listen, you're being, yes. There you go. Sammy Davis Jr. I'm not gonna tap dance around it. Okay? Why you being nice? Because you gotta have, get some
Mike: guys that just want, you know, that just go get, you know, you don't, they just wanna be on the team.
Like you gotta have. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a fact. But I, my situation, you don't, I totally get, you understand what I'm saying? You saying you gotta,
Chuck: I know what you're talking about. Okay. But go get you two that actually want to be there. Now I, I understand because Bondo too, Thato, that's what you can develop into.
I get that. Good service of
Mike: role players, I get that part. So now, and the more they play, the better they get. So how do we now for the cameras, how do we explain to people, because I think we all on the same page with this, right? We are, how do we explain to the world that it's not an equal opportunity? You just said it.
No, I just need them to know. Oh, okay. Alright. You know what I'm saying? Because here's, here's their mindset. Here's your mindset, right? This is my camera, you have got to earn your [00:41:00] spot, your minutes, your dev, you have to earn all of that.
That's where I'm going with this. Mm-hmm. That's where I'm going with this. Parents pay they fee and be like, they feel like it's automatically my son is going to get 15 to 30 minutes in the game. No, it's in the contract. It's in the parent meeting.
Chuck: It doesn't work that way now. So why so why you repeating yourself if you already said that?
It's in there. Why you still talking? What? But
Mike: that's, but that's what, that's what goes in this era and out the other, it sounds good that we
Chuck: can't repeat it to you. We have to, you gotta reinforce
Mike: that. So, so now you gotta
Chuck: reinforce that. Let me, let me calling me aunt. That's gonna be, aunt, you know what you used to tell.
Oh, it ain't come right now. No. I'm looking for the exit. Exit sign. The exit. Hit that.
Yeah. Well, yeah. Hit that. That's, but, but I see. Because once you start, but I'm proactive with that. I'm not just saying leave. No. Yes. I'm proactive with it. Listen, what I'm saying, Mike, and see this is 'cause you don't really don't want to. You don't. It ain't, see now you're being, now you're actually lying to parent and child.
No, we don't though. Yes you are. Because guess what? [00:42:00] Are you going to go into your job that you have to work and tell the boss? 'cause you come here, you expect da, da da, da, da. Or is they going or they're going to, you gonna negotiate your contract? You're, you gonna, yeah, you're in the contract and, but at the end of the day, once you sign, what does that mean?
You committed. You don't like it. What he gonna tell you? Well, you can get the stepping correct ain't gonna debate with you. Oh, you can go ahead pack that dis up. Don't even worry about it.
Mike: Yeah.
Chuck: You know what I'm saying? And that's what I'm saying to you. Like this, this, this. What goes to the very first thing where I told you.
Now, back in my day, shit, that shit is crazy. Sounds crazy. That's why I was called au select. You ain't had to have these problems, bro. Yeah. So when y'all on these circuits that y'all talking about, when this, you have to win. Now you have to, that's what you have to go and recruit these. You're going to ca So what?
You don't like it, so I don't care. Yeah. It ain't for you to like, right, right, right, right, right. Because I'm running this program, like a program. Right. See, this is where the programs actually help those teams that we, [00:43:00] these teams, these high one hand, watch the other. Right? Right. Because now you're going, you're going to these high school, you, you're getting these relationships with these different coaches.
Right. Which it should be. It shouldn't be a million teams in Wake County. Right. It shouldn't, y'all shouldn't be going to Texas to play each other. That's a fact. Look at where I put his head down. That's a fact. You're
Mike: going 10,000 miles to play talking. Listen to me. Come on now. Listen, listen to me. That that is a, that is a hundred percent fact what you just said.
You're going 10,000
Chuck: miles to play a team in Sanford and you in Garner. You playing in Henderson and you playing a team for dur. But it what the, it shouldn't be a thousand teams. It shouldn't be. It shouldn't, but see, that's what goes, that's where I'm saying they go back to what we talking about first.
That's what we're talking about. The ego part. All that, all that. That's why I had to move that up because at the end of the day, bro, you, you build how, again, how to hand wash the other, the, the reason why a lot of these college needs are not college high school coaches don't like the a u child basketball team is because the egos one, but they feel like shit ain't come holler at me shouldn't be like that [00:44:00] because it is about you.
It's about the kid. Well now how, how people can break that barrier is just, Hey bro, what's up? I need to come holler at you. Lemme come check your kid out. Woo woo woo. I'll do that. Like, like the same thing I'll be doing at the gym. I don't care who come in there. I'm tired of hearing all this people. This kid come let me see.
'cause how did you grow up playing basketball? Go play him. Huh? You who? Good. Where
Mike: he at?
Chuck: Where he at? Where he at? I can't see
Mike: him. Do you see that? No. Anybody doing that now? No, because that, but that's the problem and that's what players through their egos, they, they don't, you know, but are,
Chuck: are, are the players a problem or are we not enforcing this?
So it's not for us
Mike: to reinforce it. 'cause it's just so many, it's just so many crabs in the barrel. Good. Well then that's, you just shrink,
Chuck: you just move the barrel out the way. I know it's easier said than done. I was about to say. Yeah, it's easy said than done. But I say this all the time with all these guys that nobody, people's not willing to bend.
Like, but you, but you but you don't. They them the ones you don't need. But I'm tell, I have, you'll be amazed. But I tell you this all the time. I'm, I'm on the phone with, it's a probably about between 20 [00:45:00] to 30, I'd say about 20 retired professional basketball players or high level basketball players played overseas that live in this area, that think that we all got the same mindset.
I promise you they're saying the same thing. You don't need them mother folks, broh. I know you don't. Because, because that's what, once that started happening, that's why a lot of them hate, that's why a lot of them hate where it's at now. The state of bat. Terrible. It's horrible. It's, it's, it's horrible. It it horrible.
It's
Mike: crazy how bad it is. But do you, do you really feel like colleges don't like travel ball? Yes, they do. I've
Chuck: heard them
Mike: say it.
Chuck: Don't. Why do you feel that way? They don't. I don't like it. No, no. It ain't, I disagree with you on that. So, so it ain't, they don't like, it's not, they don't like travel ball.
They don't like the players that come from that because they have to reteach them. It's no more I'm dropping your kid off for four years. No, I got you for a year, bro. No, no, no, no. I, I'm gonna go against that. How? Yeah,
Coach: because the numbers Go ahead. I feel like look at the numbers. Nah, AAU is like a buffet line for circuits, right?
Yeah. If I'm a college coach, I don't have to go [00:46:00] watch Joe. Over there and one just Joe. Mm-hmm. I can go see all three of us on one court. Correct. On one court. That's a buffet. I can get all I can eat right here. Just sitting here all day. On multiple
Chuck: courts? Yes. On multiple courts. Right. Multiple courts. But but how often are they also going to do that?
They're only going to do it when A lot, Chuck. What you mean? You have to be, I just discovered this. I know, but you gotta be on a puma circuit for them. Everybody ain't playing on the puma circuit. I know, that's what I'm saying. Like that's, everything is now, that's what I, everything is buffet. If it's not circuit, you wasting your time.
But you got some kids, bro, that can't afford that and they dogs afford a circuit, circuit full sponsor. No, no, no, no. It's not, it's not, it's not mine. All of 'em not. But look, you fully sponsored. You might not know, you might not have seen this kid that we're talking about. Exactly. You know what I'm saying?
Because, because she was a kid that came from where nothing. Right. You see what I'm saying? So, so you But that, that travel basketball, I'm myself included, so I'm not against it. I'm just telling you when these coaches get 'em. They're like, bro, you been playing basketball this long, you don't know how to do this.
Mm-hmm. Oh nah. You got to go. Like, look at the, look at the [00:47:00] numbers. If if, if travel basketball was that beneficial to college coaches, they wouldn't be in the portal. I don't think. It's just enough time. They
Mike: wouldn't be going to get these older players. I don't think there's enough time though, Chuck. What you mean?
Like when, so you gotta sacrifice something. You do. Yes. Kids, you hear that, but they're not, you have to sacrifice something. You have to s They're not sacrifice something. You have to in order for it. Like, like it's gotta be what?
Chuck: They're sacrifice. Sacrifice. The only time they wanna sacrifice is on when y'all gonna play the circuit.
But that's what I'm saying. You got these kids that won't take their basketball
Mike: and listen, come on now, Chuck. It goes back to what you just said, like the, the coaches will be on the sideline saying you don't know how to do this, but, but that's, but that, but, but, but, but this is the tug of war between travel ball and school.
In school. So like. I don't bother my kids during, during high school season. Right? You, you shouldn't.
Chuck: I
Mike: don't bother.
Chuck: Remember what we
Mike: said? Well, I, I, I said, but look, if I'm not bothering you, then what are you [00:48:00] doing during high school? Your high school three or four months. Bingo. Right? I'm not bothering you.
So when you get to me, you better already know. Why am I still teaching you that? You need to be in the passing lane. So, so hold on. Why am I still teaching you to close out? Why am I still teaching you that? You gotta box out. Why do I, why am I teaching you to communicate die for loose balls, you know, be a dunker spot.
Dunker spot. Some people don't even know where that, where that's at. It ain't max, right? Um, slot area. I asked the kid go to the slot. He ain't even know what it was. They don't know terminology. I'm saying like, like little things like why you still jumping off the wrong foot? But, but those are the four months.
We don't get 'em. And then what, when, when it's, when it's state over. March, March, April, and then the circuit start when? April. Yeah. Like it's not enough time. It, it, it, and then it's our fault for AAU for. That the kid is not ready. No. Four.
Coach: I'm getting you at the end of this. So bro, if you're not doing it, parents, if you're not doing it, then it's not on us.
So don't think we supposed to come in here and get your kid right in three weeks overnight, bro. That's three [00:49:00] weeks. Three weeks.
Chuck: What? What did I do? What were
Mike: you doing? Let's, let's, and
Coach: then, and they haul. And then on Saturday we might try to get an open gym just to see what they looking like.
Chuck: They going to the fair, they going to the birthday party, bro.
Sleep
Mike: all over the God wine tastings. Come on bro. Listen to me. Listen to me. One of my kids. What? Oh, wine tastings. I never even heard of that until I got damn here bro. My man said, I said, yo, why, why you can't come to practice? Well, I'm going to a wine tasting with my, with, with my folks a wine tasting.
Hey look, I listen to me. It gets, it gets like that. It gets like, it gets like that. But you don't have enough time. You have to sacrifice something or, or if you can't come on Saturday. My high school coach said I can't, I
Coach: can't come. Right.
Chuck: I, I've, I've, I've
Coach: heard that. Oh, my coach said I can't come to that code.
I'm sorry. And I be like, so who am
Chuck: I?
Coach: Who, right. Like you said, who am I? Am I, but, but everything's on us. Exactly. Everything's, again,
Chuck: to, to, and I love it when I hear that. 'cause then I go right to the [00:50:00] parents, but the person, I say accountability in that I know. But, but guess what? Then? 'cause see, the thing about me is, and the development part, if you're really developing, again, we go back to the driver's license part.
Most of these high school coaches, with the exception of some of them, right? They're just teachers or they're people that played in high school, or they're, they're, they're dual citizenship people. Some of work, they're working at the school. Some of 'em, what I'm saying, some of 'em, the other part is they can't, what I tell you, it all, it all comes back to money.
'cause you gotta pay to go get somebody who got a rap sheet along as mine to be coaching over there or any, I mean, anybody that's playing. Right, right, right, right. You gotta pay for 'em. Right. But then. They trying to get a two for one. 'cause they ain't trying to spend that money. Yeah. They want to be a teacher and coach.
They want you to be a teacher and a coach. But you
Coach: got good coaches out here that hoop for a long time. Like your son, like at Panther Creek. You played at the highest level. That's, I'm saying it, it's,
Chuck: it's, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but it's rare. It is. Is [00:51:00] it? The scales are, are uneven. You
Mike: might not get
Chuck: that.
Yeah, it's uneven bro. You might not. And it's even if it's this much uneven, that's a lot. That's a yo. That's a lot. But I've seen some, some good coaches who didn't play. That's a lot bro. Do
Mike: good
Chuck: jobs. And I've see some coaches who play do some. Yeah. Because they're receptive. If long, if you're receptive like any coach that will tell you you can't be in the gym when you're not in the gym.
Retarded. So I'm going, I'm, I'm going, I'm going to work. Right? What do you mean can't be in the gym? I've had some people tell me that, and I'll be like, well, he can get injured playing anywhere. He injuries, he walking outside. Injuries are, or injuries are going to happen when you're playing basketball.
What you want to do is have the certain amount, certain you can limit your, that's just like when we was playing, when I, we played pickup Mike, who was, did we allow riff R in the gym? No. You wanna know why? No, no, no, no, no. 'cause basketball, high level basketball players can control high level basketball.
You played Yeah. You, I can control your movements. I can control when you stepping at and you don't even know it. I can't control that with [00:52:00] somebody who ain't never did that. 'cause they don't, they can't control their limbs. They don't, they don't know how their body moves. Not at all. If I jam this way, you, your hand might come up and slap me in the face.
You know what I'm saying? Or get a, you think you, yeah, they, they, they running into your body, you know what I'm saying? Slap you. So all that. So you limit the injuries by having these kids in the gym with other players that play. Now guess what? You hope these kids learn from each other? That's the other part of development.
You, because that's how you play. That's how you learn. I done stole moves from everybody I played against. Man. I'm tell everybody, I probably got some of yours. He know I got some of his, anybody I play with, I got something. I done took it and made it my own. That's a fact. That's the other part of playing against other kids.
Mike: That's, I'm cool. You see what I'm saying? Yeah.
Chuck: But that's, that's also helps with your development. But that goes into the first thing I said. So when in your recruitment process, bro, don't be. Don't be afraid to be like, all right, hit the roll because you want quantity. But I don't though, like I You want quantity, not you want, you want, you want quality, not quality, I promise.
So, so shrink that. You gotta shrink [00:53:00] that down. People ain't gonna like it. They ain't gonna agree with it. And that's fine because at the end of the day, all you all, everybody ain't gonna make it. No, half the people ain't gonna make it. It's probably gonna be one every three, four years or two outta three, four years.
You know what I'm saying? And the ones that make it, you hope that they get it and stay. But again, we know how this goes. They get there. Go left
Coach: quick now,
Mike: man. It's the hard left into the wall, man. I, like I said, I got, I never have the same team. And, and that's primarily because of the way that I coach. And I don't, I don't, you know what I'm saying?
Like, it, it is hit the road
Chuck: and, and, and, and if you don't change who you are because now you're doing a disservice. But you
Mike: keep a good group though. Hear that? I talk to my coaches, like I talk to my, my D two, my D one coaches, and they all tell me. Continue to coach that way. And if you say you're not gonna have the same team and the team that you do have, that's still there.
Those are the ones that's make it,
Chuck: that go. So, so you, you answered your own question. Yeah. You say, you said, do they like it? Most of it, it is not, they don't like [00:54:00] it, they don't like, they don't understand how the players come out of it. They don't understand, they don't understand it. They don't understand it because again, it's no more, you know how that conversation used go when you recruited?
Yeah. You gonna have, I'm gonna have your son for four. No, bro, I got you for about four, five months. Literally. Yeah man. It's a, it
Mike: is a year to year deal over here. Alright. Yo, listen, that's, that's, that's some good stuff to touch on man. I know we've running out of time. Um, to, to sum it up, I'm definitely going with winning on a circuit, non circuit.
I'm going with. Development show. Um, kids. You gotta sacrifice. You gotta sacrifice. We going to end it with this. I think everybody's been doing it, but I wanna do it. I'm gonna start with Rod. Pick your top five NBA players that you get like that you could all time. Top five mm, top five guards forwards. Top five all time.
Top five. All right. [00:55:00] Bet
Coach: center. I'm going Shaq. Woo. Diesel, diesel power four. I'm going kg 'cause he's just gonna bring Annie G. He's just gonna bring Annie. G. The three. I'm going with LeBron. That's my favorite player. Two, I'm going with Kobe and one I'm probably gonna go with Jason Kidd. J Kidd, he's giving that ball up.
He's gonna get a ball up and he's gonna play that role. He's giving that ball up. Yep.
Mike: He's giving that ball up. You not, I'm not saying he the best guard. I'm just saying he's gonna do the, he's gonna make the right reads and play for those guys, so Got you. Got Shaq Kg. J Kidd. Kobe, Kobe, and LeBron. And LeBron.
You got it. You gotta chuck. Oh, you gotta put you, yo, you gotta put like, you gotta put the, the face the, I don't know if you could do that. I don't know if it's like copyright, but you gotta put the faces up there. Got it. Who you got?
Chuck: Steph? Woo. The shooter. Mike? Yes sir. It was a toss up for me between Brian and Katie, but I'm gonna go with KD 'cause I need to offset Mike kd because you can't, [00:56:00] you can't help you.
The
Coach: best score too, you going with kd?
Chuck: Yep. Tim Duncan, Hemi, and as bad as I want Shaq between him and Wil. Mm. Ooh. Lordy. Jesus.
Mike: Between him and Will
Ain't Know you going with Shaq, man. So I want to, but I got Tim. So who's playing defense?
Chuck: Who ain't? Mike. Mike gonna play. Oh, everybody going on? K. Lock it up Tim. Lock it up. Shaq and Shaq will be my first line be if I pick him and step for a little bit.
Little Diesel. But that will, boy, that lineup I got. I don't know who gonna beat that.
Mike: Go with it.
Chuck: Oh, you got it. I'm going with Wil. You going with Wil? Yeah, I'm going with Wil. Ooh. [00:57:00] So I got Steph. Mike kd, Tim Wil, Jesus.
Mike: Alright. Um, mines is kind of similar to Chuck's a little bit. I think I got Steph.
Definitely got Steph shooting at Canon. I got Mike, I got Shaq. I got Scotty. And then I'm gonna go with
who I got. Steph. Mike,
Chuck: you gonna need a four? Scotty? Power
Mike: Forward.
Chuck: It's a couple to pick from too. 'cause don't forget about Ewin.
Mike: Oh the dream. Yeah. And the dream. That's it. That's my fault. What you going with the dream? So I got the dream. I got Steph, I got Scotty, I got Mike and I got Shaq. Alright. What about college?
Chuck: Oh man.
Coach: Greatest college.
Chuck: Every of all time. Yeah.
Coach: You go. Oh you go? Mm point guards. [00:58:00] I'm going with Ed Coda. Ed Coda? Yeah. Shooting guard. Probably gonna go.
I don't have a five for college. Mm. That's tough for me. Probably gonna go. That's crazy. 'cause he just left college. Who?
Mike: We got about five minutes. Cooper. Oh flag. Ooh. Flaggy.
Chuck: Right now. Like I just Yeah, he saying ever, ever in general. This is top five three. Man. I'm going. You got Cooper flag over, over. Um, hey man.
Yeah. I mean two. I don't have a hell nah.
Mike: Put you got what? You got?
Coach: Antoine Jameson and the four Jameson? Hmm. Vince Carter, the three probably Jesus and my five man. I might go with I'm talking about college too. [00:59:00] Five man. I might go with I'm probably gonna go, I dang fucking go with Chris Weber.
Mike: What? You got it? Yeah. Yeah.
Chuck: Iverson, Adam Morrison. Oh Lord. Carmelo Anthony. Jesus. Yo, are you cheating, bro? Yeah. He knew that he was ready for this already. I'm just, you know what I'm saying? Then I'm gonna go with.
Mike: You going college? I'm, I'm going away for college. Oh.
Well he ain't go to college.
Come on man. TikTok. TikTok. He gonna put the TikTok in there. Come on Chuck. Get the birds chirping, man. People sleeping. Christian Ner. Oh, okay. Okay. I'm gonna try this man. I'm gonna try this. You five. That's five. That's four.
Chuck: No, that's four. [01:00:00] Chris Weber.
Mike: You said Weber already? I said it. Oh, he said it was
Chuck: that, that five spot.
'cause it, it is, it's hard. That four and five spot is hard. 'cause I got some dudes on the West Coast out. It's the same.
Mike: I'm going with Kemba
Chuck: Yukon. Kim Walker.
Mike: I'm going to UConn Kemba he from over your way. So, yeah. I respect it. He was nice though. He he went to work in college. Yes, he went to work in college.
Um, definitely Vince. Mm-hmm. I need a big man. It's hard. I know, man. It's hard bro.
Chuck: I gotta go with it. Really ain't though. It's a couple. It is hard though. It is a couple.
Mike: It's a, it's, it is a couple. Alright. So I got, I got, I got, I got Vince man, Kimba, I got Kemba. Vince playing your two or your three? He's playing a, he's playing a three.
So you need two guard. He's playing a three flag. You playing Cooper [01:01:00] flag as your two. He got, I put him at my two too. Two telling I flag. I got Kimba flag.
Chuck: Vince packing that paint on y'all, Vince. Okay. I'm backing up on Cooper right now. Vince
Mike: Ain't I gotta go. You put Cooper there too? Nah, get get Coop outta there.
I got Penny. Penny Hardaway. I got Penny. Oh yeah. I ain't see him. I got Penny. I got Penny. I thought he went straight to high school. He did? Yeah. He didn't go to college. He did? No, no, no. He went to Memphis. He Memphis? Yeah.
Chuck: No. Played to Memphis. He went in Memphis. Yes. That's why he coached there. Yes. He played Memphis.
I got Penny. What about he played for Ari?
Mike: No. No. Yeah, I got Penny. Okay. I got Vince. I got Kimba. Kemba. Your four and your five. Oh, you're two fours. Jesus. Yo, I'm stuck.
Chuck: What's Howard? Ooh. Hold on. I'm on. I want take my, I want to take my, I wanna take my five out. I'm [01:02:00] stuck. I'm stuck. Who you got? I want to, I want to change my four, my five To who?
Chris, whoever. My four. Greg owe him my five. Oh man. I forgot about Greg
Mike: in college. He was a cool, yeah, he was a
Chuck: demon. Chris, we, my four, Greg owe my five. He.
Mike: He was a demon. Mm. He wasn't. I just remembered. He definitely was. I was talking to
Chuck: Javar Cri, shout out my boy Crick man. Hey man. Proud of you boy. He definitely was.
Yeah. Um, talking about if people forget how, how, how crazy Greg Holden was, was I'm stuck. Pick two for me man. You get, you can get Hakeem, you
Mike: can get I don't wanna go that far. You can get she
Chuck: Yeah, because I, because I I know he gonna catch me out at four. He definitely get she. Oh damn. But that's not, that's she's gonna get Tech two techs before he he ain't never got throw out no college game though.
Nah, he start getting text so he got the pros have to go with Jameson
Coach: though. Jimmy's
Chuck: to, yeah. I mean that's what I say. You can't, it it is that four and five spot that's up for, that's four man. And Chris Webber [01:03:00]
Mike: just about the four. My pops definitely picking my pops. I right that. Um, and then gimme one more person.
Rap Samson And what number one where Shaq play that man. You. Yeah. You, yeah. Shaq, I'm going with Shaq. Shaq Diesel. That's my five. That's my five. All right. We gonna wrap it up, man. Appreciate y'all. Episode three. Tough talk. The real side of sports. Peace, man.
[01:04:00]