MSU Today with Russ White

Bill Beekman, vice president and director of Intercollegiate Athletics at Michigan State University, welcomes Aron Sousa to MSU Today. Sousa is dean of the College of Human Medicine and a colleague of Beekman’s “from many, many years ago when I spent time in the college, myself.”

Show Notes

MSU’s College of Human Medicine was a pioneer in the area of community-based medical schools. Third and fourth-year students do their clinical training in hospitals around the state.

“That philosophy that the best place for people to learn to be a physician is with the people they will eventually be taking care of stays with us,” Sousa tells Beekman. “And our dedication to those communities is a part of what makes us different and special. We were leaders in that. Almost every medical school now has some sort of community experience and there are more than 80 medical schools across the country that now think of themselves, at least in part, as a community-based medical school.

“We were real innovators. It's been a great thing for our students. They get great training with people who they will eventually take care of. Most of our students end up practicing in Michigan after they've finished their training. And our communities have been incredibly generous and thoughtful. They've been interested in having the college do more there, and that has led to development of research and economic development opportunities for people in those communities. It's been a really great symbiotic relationship.”

Sousa highlights the college’ public health work in Flint and the growing research presence in Grand Rapids. He talks about MSU’s new partnership with the Henry Ford Health System and about the college’s continuing focus on the Greater Lansing area.

MSU Today airs Sunday mornings at 9:00 on 105.1 FM, AM 870, and wkar.org. Find “MSU Today with Russ White” on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

Creators & Guests

Host
Russ White
I host and produce MSU Today for News/Talk 760 @wjrradio and @MichiganStateU's @NPR affiliate @WKAR News/Talk 102.3 FM and AM 870.

What is MSU Today with Russ White?

MSU Today is a lively look at Michigan State University-related people, places, events and attitudes put into focus by Russ White. The show airs Saturdays at 5 P.M. and Sundays at 5 A.M. on 102.3 FM and AM 870 WKAR, and 8 P.M. on AM 760 WJR.

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Welcome to MSU. Today, I'm Bill Beekman, Vice President and Director of intercollegiate athletics and today's program, we're joined by Aaron Sousa, Dean of the College of human medicine. And a colleague of mine from many, many years ago, when I spent time in the college, myself. And, Aaron, let's start off with just sort of letting people know how the College of human medicine is, is so unique and, and really born out of an era in the, you know, back in, in, you know, what seems for some probably like a lifetime ago, back in the late 60s and early 70s, with this concept of a community based medical school, and, and we were really, you know, a pioneer medical school in that regard. And so could you explain to us how, how the College of human medicine as a community based medical school is unique, and different from what people might think of us as a traditional medical school they might be familiar with, and and the advantages that that gives us and how we serve the people of the state of Michigan,

Unknown Speaker 1:13
I'd be delighted to bill. So the college is a child of the 1960s, which, for many of us is a lifetime ago, for some people, it's two lifetimes ago, for example, our students right now, most of them, that's two lifetimes ago, and, and at that time, across the country, medical schools were really only based out of big, huge Central Hospital academic medical centers. And at the time, the state was interested in another medical school, the legislature wanted to have another medical school. And the university saw a place as a land grant institution really is the Pioneer land grant institution, that it could do something different. So it set up a medical school where students started in their first two years, which are mostly basic science in East Lansing. And then they did their clinical training in campuses around the state. So one of the first new campuses was in the Upper Peninsula. And nobody had ever done anything like that before tried to train medical students in their clinical years in the third and fourth year where they're in clinics and working with physicians, taking care of patients in a rural setting like that. We also had students in Flint and Grand Rapids and in Lansing. Over the years, some of our campuses have changed a little bit. But that same that was that same philosophy that the best place for people to learn to be a physician is with the people, they will eventually be taken care of stays with us. And our dedication to those communities is a part of what makes us different and special. We were leaders in that almost every medical school now has some sort of community experience for students. And there are more than 80 medical schools across the country that now think of themselves, at least in part as a community based medical school. So we were real innovators, it and it's been a great thing for our students, they get great training with people that they will eventually take care of. Most of our students ended up practicing in Michigan, after after they finished their training. And our communities have been incredibly generous and thoughtful. And you know, I think as we'll get a chance to talk about, they've been interested in having the college do more there. And that has led to development of research, economic development opportunities for people and in those communities. It's, it's been a really great symbiotic relationship.

Unknown Speaker 3:44
Well, I think that in terms of the community based model is one of the real strengths of the model. On the one hand, we're teaching students across the state of Michigan, and and yet a student in Marquette, for example, gets the same, the same baseline education that a student in Flint gets or in Grand Rapids or Lansing or elsewhere. But but the but it's sort of the the best of both worlds because then, depending on what community we're in, it seems as though we sometimes have unique points of emphasis in those communities. And I think that, you know, typically our campus in Marquette in the Upper Peninsula, we've we've recruited students who might be either from the northern Lower Peninsula or the Upper Peninsula who then go back to those more more rural settings for their practice. But you're to me, one of the more interesting developments of the last decade has been the public health work that we do in Flint and, and and sort of in a I was gonna say a perfect storm it was or maybe the reverse of a perfect storm. I don't know. But, you know, in terms of the tragedy that really occurred there with the Flint water crisis, we were as a as a medical school in the city of Flint with a public health focus prepared to help the people of that community in a unique way. And so could you share with us a little bit about the unique public health mission of the of the Flint campus?

Unknown Speaker 5:28
Yeah, absolutely. And you're so very right that each community has its own sort of flavor or our own relationship with the people in that community. in Traverse City, Midland and the Upper Peninsula, it tends to be with a rural focus. And in Flint, a little bit more than about 15 years ago, we really started working with Flint and the CS Mott Foundation on what kinds of development we could do there. And everybody sort of landed on a public health focus, and importantly, a focus on community based participatory research. So it was a community that really didn't want to be biopsied anymore. there's been plenty of research done on them, but not so much that they actually participated in. So we had a group of people who went to more than 100 community meetings, 4000 surveys, and a big committee of folks in the community, not just hospital CEOs and insurance CEOs and people like that, but actual regular folk. And they were focused on they wanted us to focus on three kinds of research, healthy behaviors, behavioral health, and chronic disease, and not just what happens with those but actually work to reduce disparities in health. So we set up a public health unit there focused on community based participatory research along those areas, started hiring folks. And that start that happened just before the Flint water crisis kind of broke. And so we had people in place and working together on public health research. Hurley jennison, CES and McLaren. We're all deeply engaged in that partnership. And one of the folks at Hurley and one of our faculty, Dr. Mona Hanna teesha, did some work looking at the levels of lead in children in Flint, showing that that had been going up and and you know, the people of Flint had been saying for a long time that their water was not safe. And there's a large complicated piece about how they had lost the power of the ballot box. Because of a state manager, they, their city council couldn't make decisions. So their representatives couldn't change things. And so in a lot of ways those folks weren't listened to, except by some academics, including Mona, and we had people there who were able to work with Mona and help Mona, including our geographer Rick Sadler, who really, those books did the science that tied the age of the water to the exposure of children to lead to the lead in their blood, and really sort of tied a bow around the science and how that went. Since then, Mona has joined us she's a CS Mott professor, we have the Flint registry, lead registry is now based out of Flint, it's funded by the CDC. They have about 30,000 people who are either enrolled or pre enrolled, they've done 17,000 assessments. So they're really delivering on making the world a better place to try to help the people of Flint. And it's it's been remarkable to watch at the same time. The rest of that public health unit, which is led by Deborah for holding has been really successful at bringing research opportunities to the community. So we just did an economic analysis, there are more than 800 job years there in the last five years. So the federal money comes in to do research. That is another each of those. Those grants fund people in places like Odyssey house and other community agencies where the research is done to try to find interventions that make life better for those folks are and really for all around the country in the world. And that's been worth 100 about a little under $100 million in economic development for the Flint community in addition to access to better care and assessments, like through the Flint led registry, it's it's really remarkable. It's something that that of the things I've been involved with in the past. One of the things that I think we can be most proud of

Unknown Speaker 10:02
well, and Aaron, I really liked the way you say you talk about how it's, it makes the world a better place when I talk to our student athletes. And occasionally I'll talk about what what the definition of a Spartan is. And I tell them, my definition of a Spartan is a person who makes their corner of the world a better place, and in whatever that whatever their their future may hold for them, whatever pathway to a career, or, or whatever, whatever, whatever else they may do in their life, if they're making their corner of the world a better place, then then they're a great Spartan. And, and certainly, there's a, the work that we're doing in Flint is, is exactly that. So moving geographically, from Flint, west across the state, I had the opportunity this weekend to, to drive through Grand Rapids, and I'm always very proud of the, the work that we're doing there. In part because I very earlier early in my career, I was I was invested in it quite a bit. But but but always to see the Secchia Center is a I think a very has a very special place with me. But I was really quite excited that to see the progress on the in the the sort of the Research Triangle that we have just just west of the Secchia center. And and I've been in the first research building, but to see the progress on that second building is really quite remarkable. And so could you share with us a little bit about the, you know, the extraordinary research work that's going on in Grand Rapids, and that I think, kind of is that communities niche area?

Unknown Speaker 11:53
Yeah, it really is an amazing story. And it actually, you know, Bill and I met over Grand Rapids. I mean, this was I was a young faculty member. And Bill was working in the college. And we were trying to figure this out. And I had just taken on the educational duties for the college and Bill drove me over to Grand Rapids and said, Well, what do you think of this building? This is a spot for a building. So way back in the aughts, and there was a vision, right? This is the Philips philanthropic community in Grand Rapids had a real vision of what that community needed to grow and to be to expand in create an intellectual economy and opportunities for new care and cutting edge care for the people in the community. And they thought that what they needed was to have a medical school with their hospitals. And they have a couple of great hospitals systems there, namely spectrum and St. Mary's and and so having ch at the College of human medicine, they're turned out to be a lynchpin for their future development. The university acquired some airspace, which is where the Secchia center is named after Peter Seki was a great friend of the university and the college and then land down below that if you know Grand Rapids where the old Grand Rapids press building was, and along the river, and that land down below at the bottom of the medical mile, is where we put our first research building now the Doug Meyer medical innovation building is the walls are all up. And that is the largest single individual gift to the college was Doug Meyers really generous gift to try to put on a radiopharmacy there which will be a cutting edge piece of technology to help people in that community as well as help us push science to new ways of diagnosing and treating cancer and, and other diseases. So as time has gone by those yet another building there. It will be a building. Just on Monroe Avenue, that paragraph will be in the last couple of buildings are public private partnerships. So MSU is not the state is not paying for those buildings. msu is not paying for those buildings. Those are partnerships with private development that they build buildings that people are leasing to move into with jobs coming to downtown, as well as cutting edge science and partnerships with the university and the college. It's remarkable work. It's one of the things that norm Beauchamp Dean before me had done in at the University of Washington and then since put together with Jerry Coyne and some other folks in Grand Rapids it's, I mean when you think about the 15 years or I guess I'll Almost 20 years since we started that work, it is really astonishing to see what has developed there. And it's been huge for the community, it's hundreds of millions of dollars in in jobs and grants and, and development, it's, it's been a great success.

Unknown Speaker 15:14
And it really is extraordinary. And there's a little building that sits across kind of across the street from the Van Andel Institute. In fact, I didn't drive by it this week, and I'm not sure it's even there anymore. But a little one storey building, that was our first office in Grand Rapids. And I think I had a key and I think Marcia rapidly had a key and a few other folks. And we sort of hung out there, as we did our planning, and, and work on on building the the various buildings. And to think from that that little sort of one story brick office to where we've come, is just, it's just sort of beyond beyond one's imagination, that it's all it's all come to fruition in the way it has. And the partnerships, as you say, with St. Mary's and spectrum, and the use of the opportunities for a collaboration, that community are, are really special. And yeah, and I think that and it's in our best sometimes, as a medical school, it's those relationships that we build in the community. You know, as you mentioned, in Flint with really the community itself. in Grand Rapids, those hospital partnerships are critical to our success. And, you know, it was really, really exciting to see the college announce its sort of its most most newest relationship, I guess, with the the Henry Ford health care system in in Southeast Michigan. And so what you're What do we is that's just just getting off the ground? What do we expect to come from that, and what are the unique aspects of that relationship that we should know about?

Unknown Speaker 17:03
I think that you get to really the, the way the college is put together, and its relationship with hospitals and and how the health economy works. So in a, in a traditional big academic medical center, the clinical work of a hospital often helps the research work happen in the research work and education work and, and that that cycle, then through more research and education where patients come and that helps the clinical operation. And that turns into, really a very powerful engine of discovery and opportunity for students and patients. And it's economically good for the community as well. Ch the College of human medicine in Michigan, say don't own hospitals. So the plus the downside of that is we don't have that natural cycle, to reinvest into research. The good news is we don't have a hospital to fill. So people build, you know, a $900 million hospital, they've got to make sure they've got enough patients in there, or else they can't pay the bills. And we don't have that requirement, which makes it a lot easier for people to partner with us because we don't have to compete with them on clinical, the clinical enterprise. I, you know, Henry Ford, I think views, their future successes tied to being able to bring in cutting edge clinician researchers and scientists so that their patients have access to the best best care in the world. And a part of what those kinds of physicians and look for is an academic, an academic environment. And I want to be clear, Ford has an academic environment, but they don't have the traditional parts of university academic status, so that if you want that you want to become a chair or you want to become Dean or you want to develop in those circles, your sometimes those institutions are a little more difficult to be successful. So having a university like Michigan State, and this is absolutely a partnership between not just the college, but the rest of the university and Henry Ford. Having that university relationship is really important before. For us, it's the opportunity to hire more folks and research and more opportunities for students. And so it's really clear from the development agreement, which is public, that one of the first areas is going to be work on cancer and hiring researchers in cancer. I think that that will be a great development for the the university to be able to bring in people to work on that and that will help Henry Ford and then there are some other areas that they're also interested whether it's in neuroscience or public health or epidemiology, and so I think it's a great opportunity for the university to develop Because we get a get to participate in a bit of that clinical research education cycle that has been so important to academic medicine, across the country and, and around the world. And when you look at things like the basic science behind COVID, vaccines and COVID testing and things like that, it is it comes out of that cycle, our ability to handle new diseases or make make a difference for people with diseases that have previously been untreatable, is comes out of that cycle.

Unknown Speaker 20:33
So Aaron, we've talked a lot about the the community base model at the College of human medicine at Michigan State, that we've talked about how that has an impact on people from the upper peninsula to the people of Flint, through our campus, their Grand Rapids, Metro Detroit, and Henry Ford, really, throughout the state. One of the questions I got a lot when I was in the college, and we were working on the initial expansion to Grand Rapids was some anxiety from the people of the Lansing Community, who we've been serving for so many years. That, that we might be leaving Lansing and, and, and not able to serve this community as well as as we once had. And I think over the years, in fact, the reversal has been the case that as we've grown elsewhere, really we've grown in Lansing, as well. So wrap up by sharing with us what what's going on in Lansing, and what are we what are we excited about doing here? things we're doing here in our own community,

Unknown Speaker 21:40
I you know, one of the things that's most exciting here is that our clinicians or faculty are some of the best physicians in the city. So the neonatologist, the treat kids at Sparrow, which is one of the best Neo Natal care units in the state. Those are MSU people that those are MSU employed physicians. And, you know, the people who take care of patients without physicians at Sparrow are mostly our internal medicine folks, or our family medicine, folks. So there's a lot of care that we directly provide. And our students get trained here. And, of course, the University is a huge operation, so much of our researchers grants that happened here, and people who, who do their work here and bring collaborators in, I do think, you know, there's a real opportunity to do more in Lansing, right, one of the things that has happened in in Flint and Grand Rapids is that there's been a philanthropic partner who brings the hospitals and the university together to build. And that is, you know, we could get a long philosophical discussion about the differences in the growth between Lansing and Indianapolis, and Columbus and Madison over the last 40 years. Now, Indianapolis and Columbus have a 70 that that's a real economic engine for them. But, you know, all three of all those other schools, those all their cities all have big 10 universities with medical schools, but they also have big hospital partnerships. And I think that that's one of the opportunities that we have here. It's one of the things that excites me about the community is the great potential when you when you bring to bear the power of a big 10 institution. And it's exciting to have our students here and our faculty here. And so, I just love being a part of that.

Unknown Speaker 23:33
Well, we've been joined today by Aaron Sousa, Dean of the College of human medicine at Michigan State University. And, Aaron, I always try and enter these conversations on a fun note. So I'll ask you one last question that has absolutely nothing to do with your job. And that is, I know that the role of the Dean of the colleges is it's got to be one of the busiest, craziest most challenging roles at the university, having worked in the college some time ago, and, and yet at the same time, there must be a little bit of downtime. And when you find that downtime, what do you do for fun, other than, other than worrying about the state of health care in our state,

Unknown Speaker 24:16
you know, a, my son and I and, and my wife have, you know, spent a lot of time in our yard, whether it's gardening or digging up clay and trying to fire it into a pot. And, and watching the animals in the yard, I really just, you know, like being outside in Michigan, whether it's in a kayak or in the garden. And I think that that's one of the great things about this part of the country, four seasons, great nature, getting over to the lakes. Those are the things that I think I really enjoy when I'm not with students or patients or faculty. those are those are the things I enjoy most

Unknown Speaker 24:58
wonderful. Well thanks. Thank you so much for joining us. I feel as though we've just barely scratched the surface of the extraordinary work that the college does. But, but that just means we'll have to corral you into coming back sometime soon. So, Aaron, thanks so much for joining us today. It's been a delight bill. Thanks so much.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai