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We are Alyssa and Bri, two sisters who believe God wants more for women than we've been taught. Join us as we dive into the intersection of faith and feminism, learning together as we go.
My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree.
Speaker 2:We're 2 sisters passionate about
Speaker 1:all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word. And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy.
Speaker 2:Hello. Hi. Oh, my. Happy post Christmas. Happy Christmas.
Speaker 2:It's not Christmas. I hope that you have had a relaxing post Christmas time. We, however, have not. It's been a blur. It's always a blur.
Speaker 2:I feel like this week, I keep reading online that people are like, oh, I love the week between Christmas and New Year's because I just sit
Speaker 1:in my pajamas and I do nothing, or I do, like, organizing things that don't normally get done here. Where do you people find the time to do that?
Speaker 2:Because I don't
Speaker 1:it's the busiest week of my life.
Speaker 2:Always have nice goals of being like, oh, let's reach out to the family. We'll get together. We'll go see a movie. We'll get together and go out to lunch. I don't know.
Speaker 2:It never ever happens.
Speaker 1:It just seems like even more so than when school is in session or when dance is going on or whatever is happening that I'm even busier.
Speaker 2:I just always stay unshowered in lounge clothes, and I'm always at Starbucks. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We are always at Starbucks. We will drive I'm sure we've said this before, but we will drive, like, 20 minutes out of our way to go to the good Starbucks.
Speaker 2:The good Starbucks. And we
Speaker 1:went there today. It wasn't really out of our way today. We were going somewhere to pick up lunch, and we happened to head through that.
Speaker 2:On the way to get lunch, we also needed a coffee.
Speaker 1:Obviously. They know this about us.
Speaker 2:Yeah. This is not new information.
Speaker 1:So for Christmas, I got a coffee maker slash espresso machine for my
Speaker 2:parents, or I guess
Speaker 1:my husband and I did. And I'm I'm quite excited to try it. I'm not entirely sure it will curb my Starbucks purchases at all, but it'll make me drink more coffee, which is which is exactly what we need. Yeah. That's the ideal situation.
Speaker 2:Honestly, if I don't have a heart attack by the time I'm 40,
Speaker 1:it'll be shocking. I read the other day that a venti Starbucks iced coffee, not like a latte, not a shaken espresso, nothing that's like hard espresso.
Speaker 2:Hard liquor.
Speaker 1:Just a plain old iced coffee. The large size is as much caffeine as the FDA recommends per day for a human person. Well, lucky you. You never finish yours. I there's so little left of this coffee right now.
Speaker 1:Do you hear that? That's the ice in my iced coffee.
Speaker 2:You're the cream in my coffee. What's that for? It's a radio commercial. Oh, well, that's not as exciting as I thought it would be. I'll tell you what not to do unless you want your eyes to bug out of your head is get the venti shake and espresso from Starbucks, because it'll it'll wake you up from the dead.
Speaker 2:It will take you to heaven. It will It's something. But it comes with 4 shots of espresso and 6 pumps of whatever sweetener it is. I don't know. But I'm like, 6?
Speaker 2:That's too much sweet.
Speaker 1:My gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But if you knock those 6 down to, like, 1 or 2, and then you have 2 of those Fantasia Knitchers, that's 8 shots of espresso. And then guess what?
Speaker 1:You have an out of body experience? You see Jesus. Oh, wow. So what you're saying to me is when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, it wasn't a miracle. It was just espresso.
Speaker 1:Shaken espresso. Got it. Got it. Bible jokes.
Speaker 2:Now that we could post on the Instagram. I like it. I think our brand of humor
Speaker 1:is quite unique. You have to not only have grown up as, like, a little church kid, but you also have to be a little blasphemous and also also just unhinged.
Speaker 2:There's that quote that was, like, the same power that rose Lazarus from the grave lives in you or something like that. You know that?
Speaker 1:It's espresso?
Speaker 2:The same power that rose Lazarus from the grave lives in a venti shaken espresso. Wow. And it does. Alright.
Speaker 1:So if you'd like to know more about
Speaker 2:our stories beyond how often we go to Starbucks,
Speaker 1:today is your day. It's your lucky day. Now we actually filmed recorded we we don't film. We recorded our stories as the very first episode of this podcast.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So if you wanna listen to that one too, it'll be kind of a slightly different version. The sound quality is real bad.
Speaker 2:You have to turn up your volume all
Speaker 1:the way. Yeah. We didn't really know what we were doing.
Speaker 2:But, also, it was just, like, our first ever podcast that we're recording, so we sound like little babies and we sound very quiet.
Speaker 1:And now we're, like, 30 something episodes in, and we don't give a crap. We're loud and annoying now. Yeah. I think we got a lot more comfortable just talking. Just doing what we do.
Speaker 2:Just looking at each other, eating cheese.
Speaker 1:We're not eating cheese today.
Speaker 2:I know. And that's a little bit sad. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But today, we're gonna start with Bree because on the last one, I basically talked for, like, 45 minutes, and then Brianna talked for 4 minutes, and we called again. Yeah. That was fine. Bree's gonna tell a longer version of her story today,
Speaker 2:and then I'll just take up whatever time is left. Or this will be a 17 hour podcast. It'll be like a marathon.
Speaker 1:Won't that be fun for you all?
Speaker 2:All those turkey trotters, are you looking for something to listen to while you're running around?
Speaker 1:I think that was at Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:Is there ever not a turkey trot? I'm certain that there's not. I don't know. I don't run. Who's to say?
Speaker 2:But there's always people running around. So those of you
Speaker 1:who consider yourself turkeys and are also runners, listen in.
Speaker 2:Listen in. Here we go. This is great. So,
Speaker 1:Brie, tell the people your your saga. My saga?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Your epic. Oh, once upon a time, I woke up in the in a flower, and I discovered I was a fairy. That's really exciting for you. I was thinking of Thumbelina.
Speaker 2:Oh. Tell your story, Breanna. I was telling Alyssa this earlier. I don't know that this is like a like a timeline of events. Like, I was popped out of my mother and came into the world.
Speaker 2:I don't know that it's necessarily, like, a story, but, hey. If you wanna get to know me more, great. Have a seat. This can be my therapy session. Oh, good.
Speaker 2:Which I haven't gone to therapy yet, and I, based on the notes that I've taken, I should.
Speaker 1:Based on the 35 or so podcasts, you there you go. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I should. You should. So, everybody, lean back on your couches and get your tossed salad and scrambled eggs. I think I struggled the first time that we recorded this because I felt like I didn't actually have a story. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And to be honest, I feel like I still don't necessarily have a story, And I don't remember what I said in that first episode. I have not gone back and listened to it, so I could be just repeating this.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna guess you aren't because you took 4 minutes.
Speaker 2:Well, I was born, then I died. But when I was talking to mom about this a couple of weeks ago, she's like, everybody actually has a story. It's just whether you're willing to tell it or not. And I'm not, so we're done. Okay.
Speaker 2:Bye. That's it. Love you. Bye. So I feel like the first time that we recorded this, I felt like I had to make my story this great journey to feminism and how I became a feminist.
Speaker 2:And I feel like that's just who I am now. I've just fully embraced that I'm a raging feminist, and that's just who I am. But I don't know that I have this grand story, like, this pilgrimage to go on, especially because we started a podcast called Sisters Talk Faith and Feminism. We are more. I don't know.
Speaker 2:But I've definitely become more of a feminist after filming this with you, recording this with you. For almost a year now. I know. Happy birthday to us.
Speaker 1:Not quite.
Speaker 2:I think I'm a person who really struggles to open up with people, even the people that I'm the closest to, which I would consider you, not mom, obviously. Obsciously. The people closest in my life. I feel like I'm kind of more closed off than I should be, and I feel that within myself. And I don't know if other people feel that around me.
Speaker 2:They probably do.
Speaker 1:I've heard that said many a time.
Speaker 2:But I always wanna put on this front of being very confident and very independent because that's what I want to be. But I don't truly ever believe that about myself, that I'm actually that confident or I'm actually that independent. But they say fake it till you make it. And I've been faking it for a long time. Have you made it?
Speaker 2:I have not made it yet. I'm just constantly faking it. And I think my dreams have changed throughout my time from my youth to now. I feel like when you're growing up, especially in maybe it's not just the small Christian community. Maybe it's women in general.
Speaker 2:You're told you need to have a husband. You need to, you know, want that. That should be the thing that you want above all else. But really, what I'm really wanting to be, is just someone's rich aunt. That like, they look at and they're like, wow, she's majestic, and different, and mysterious.
Speaker 2:And that's all I really want. But I think I've struggled with that because I really don't feel that confident in myself, and I really don't feel that independent even though people think that I am. I'm not because I really rely on everybody in my life. But growing up, I was really interested in romance. I really liked Robin Hood, and I really liked the Aristocrats.
Speaker 2:I remember. I loved the idea of love, and I feel like we probably talked about this a lot in our dating episodes and my singleness episodes, but I was like, Robin Hood, that fox. The Disney version.
Speaker 1:Quite literally.
Speaker 2:Or the Aristocats or whatever. So I grew up loving the idea of love, thinking that that's all I wanted to do was be married. Mhmm. And then I got to the age where you do start dating people, and I didn't. I feel like all through high school, nobody really wanted me.
Speaker 2:That's horrible. And I don't think true. Maybe I put on like like I said, I struggle opening up with people, and maybe that's something that happened to me. I don't know. You told me one time that you think I intimidate men.
Speaker 1:Well, I've been told that about myself also. So
Speaker 2:know. And maybe that's true. Maybe I Frankly, intimidate them. Do it. I've just been around too many weak men.
Speaker 2:There you go. If you're intimidated by me, me faking being loud, confident, and independent, well, I don't know who you are then. Not worth your time. Not worth my time. I dated, like, one boy in high school for a couple weeks, and then I got freaked out, and I got scared about what other people thought about him.
Speaker 2:And then I thought he was weird too, so I just dumped him. He he
Speaker 1:was a little odd. He was odd. And, frankly, based on high school dating, you weren't missing a lot.
Speaker 2:No. High school dating is like, let's walk around, hold hand, and kiss by the lockers. Woo hoo.
Speaker 1:That sounds great.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then I got into college and I went to a small Christian college. And if you know anything about Christian colleges, it's everybody wants to get married. And if you're not seriously dating someone or married or engaged by the time that you graduate, you've kind of failed. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Especially as a woman because that's what your entire value is tied up into is being a wife and mother. Even though you're in school, even though you're learning just like everybody else, learning moving towards a career, you would think.
Speaker 1:But we've talked about that before, about how the expectation of women at Christian colleges is not necessarily you're moving towards a career. Even though you're at school working towards that, it's this is a great place to meet men.
Speaker 2:Well, I know that we've talked about this before, but I had people ask me, did you get that MRS degree yet? Like, why are you even there? But, no, I really didn't date anybody through college. I went on a couple dates from the dating apps.
Speaker 1:Quite awful ones, if I recall.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. I reamed some people out. But that's just it. I mean, online dating sucks. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Or just generally across the board, and even the people who have married people that they've met online will tell you online dating sucks Yeah. Because you go into meeting this person with this expectation of, alright. Are we gonna work out? Mhmm. Are we gonna work out?
Speaker 2:Rather than just, I wanna get to know this person. Right. Whatever. Dating sucks. End of story.
Speaker 2:But by the time I got out of college and not having any prospects, and I I don't know if you know this but I have a studio art degree which I'm really using. We've mentioned that before. I'm really using it. I just felt like my life and even to this day, I just feel like my life isn't it hasn't started yet, and that's maybe why I feel like I don't have a story because I don't have those major events like marriage, kids, grandkids, death. Well, I hope
Speaker 1:you don't have grandkids at 30. Hey.
Speaker 2:Hey. We've never revealed my age. Yes. We have. No.
Speaker 2:I'm 97.
Speaker 1:Don't let her lie to you.
Speaker 2:But maybe other people are feeling this way too. Other people who are maybe feeling like their life hasn't begun yet or they're feeling desperation Mhmm. Seeking a spouse. And I'm still on this journey, and I need to go to therapy trying to figure out what my life is about. And I think especially for Christian women, you hear it all of the time.
Speaker 2:Your life begins when you become a wife and mother.
Speaker 1:Or you'll start to matter again
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:When you become a wife or a mother.
Speaker 2:Yes. And I feel like I started thinking and sometimes I slip back in and out of that. Like, I would be more independent. I would be more confident if I had dual income. If
Speaker 1:I mean, that part doesn't sound.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like, if I found that person and just bit the bullet and got married, a lot of things would be easier Mhmm. For me. And then I started realizing what I really want is not necessarily a spouse. What I want is independence.
Speaker 2:What I want is confidence. What I want is more money. Well yeah. So when I think about my future and I'm thinking about, do I need a husband, I don't wanna settle. I want if I am to take a husband Someday.
Speaker 2:I will accept applications. I also don't through me first, though, just so everyone knows. Yeah. Alright. I don't just want to be one of those women sitting around complaining that their husband can barely turn their heads to breathe.
Speaker 2:I don't wanna be someone else's mother when I don't even necessarily wanna mother anything now.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you mother me. You're welcome. Yeah.
Speaker 2:The idea of popping out kids really Oh. I mean, it hurts.
Speaker 1:It's not a great time. Ow. Growing them isn't like a treat either.
Speaker 2:I watched a TikTok yesterday or today that said Japan. They it's not as commonly believed now, but it used to be believed that if you had an epidural or something, you weren't, like, a real woman. You had to experience the pain of labor in order to be a true mother. And even still, epidurals are not as common, and they cost a ton of money. Like, your insurance doesn't cover it.
Speaker 2:They cost a ton of money here, but usually your insurance will cover it.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. Yeah. Epidurals are god's gift to women. Let me just tell you that.
Speaker 2:If you gotta make people and push them out, get an epidural. But, yeah, that's where I'm at right now. I just feel like I'm having this internal struggle with myself right now, wanting to be this strong, independent lady, being a boss you know what, but wondering if, you know, being married is in the cards for me. And if not, if that's not what god wants for me, I'm just hoping that god leads me down a path that makes more sense. And I know that other people are feeling that way too.
Speaker 2:So yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really common sentiment. Because if people look at you and I
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Or they listen to the podcast or probably if again, I don't think our family's still listening, but they gave up
Speaker 1:on us some time ago. But if anyone from our family heard you talking like this Mhmm. The general sentiment is Brianna's really confident.
Speaker 2:She is she is thoroughly herself, and no one can change that or alter that or whatever. But I think what you're saying is really applicable to
Speaker 1:I mean, probably to men too, but I'm I'm a woman, so I can't speak for men. I know. But to women in general, because there is this dichotomy of you're supposed to want to be married, you're supposed to want kids, you're supposed to want these things. But at the same time, as we look at new wave feminism, you're also, unless you're a
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Super conservative Christian woman, you're also supposed to be independent. You're also supposed to have a career. You're also supposed to be fully yourself. But when does that happen?
Speaker 2:That's like the Barbie quote.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Which I think we've mentioned a few times. Mhmm. But it's very you're really stuck
Speaker 2:kind
Speaker 1:of in the middle. Mhmm. And if you are independent, oftentimes, you are seen as kind of intimidating
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:To men who really are looking for someone that they can this is kind of a creepy word, but someone they can dominate.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, yet, you don't want that man. But still, there's this concept of, oh, I'm I'm
Speaker 2:too much. I'm too big
Speaker 1:of a personality. I'm too confident. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Or if you tell men, through experience on the dating app, they ask, do you want kids? And if you say, I'm not really sure Mhmm. Or no, they're like, what? Mhmm. They're like, well, you want them.
Speaker 2:Well, you want them, actually. Mhmm. And that happened to me on the last date that I went on. He was like, do you want kids? And I was like,
Speaker 1:I don't really know. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And he's like, well, you will. You will eventually. And he was talking about how we can cut this out. No. We're we're talking about this.
Speaker 2:He was in the room when his, like, sister in laws had their babies. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was like You told me that.
Speaker 2:Ew. Yeah. He's like, it's not that bad. And I was like What?
Speaker 1:Do you have to push a watermelon out of your nostril?
Speaker 2:That's actually what I said to him. I was like, you can tell me it's not that bad when you push a full size watermelon out your butthole. Like, what the heck?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't wanna ever hear from a man, it's not
Speaker 2:that bad. It's not that bad.
Speaker 1:No. For some women, it's not as painful. For some women, they deal
Speaker 2:with it better, but they go through it, so they get to say that. Yeah. Like, our sister-in-law, I don't think, had that bad of an experience based on what she said. I think her was way high up, which is awesome for her, as it should be, as the lord intended. But I saw you give birth, and no part of me wants to do that.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of blood.
Speaker 2:It's just not a good step. Alright, Bre. Got anymore? Any more to say? Any more things?
Speaker 2:I just feel like I really have enjoyed this podcast. I think it's opened my eyes to there's more to women than just, you know, all the stereotypical garbage that we're fed Mhmm. All of the time, and it's nice to say you get to be whatever you wanna be, and you get to write what you wanna write in your own story. And if you wanna change, for heaven's sakes, change. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Like, I'm a reader now, and I I know I keep harping on about that, but I don't read.
Speaker 1:She's very proud of herself.
Speaker 2:I do not read. Brianna, illiterate. That's been an ongoing joke It has been. My entire life, and now, guess what? I've read 9 books in, like, a month.
Speaker 1:You did. You read a lot. Very quickly.
Speaker 2:So I just, you know, be who you wanna be. If you wanna be a wife and mother, for heaven's sakes, do that. If you wanna be a career woman and a mother, for heaven's sakes, do that. If you don't wanna birth anything ever, don't.
Speaker 1:I think I kinda see, as we've explored this and we've looked at some of the women in our world today Mhmm. Some of the biblical women, and we've explored that, it almost feels like an escape hatch from the the standard path. Mhmm. Like, you're walking down the normal path, and all of a sudden, there's you see this tiny little pathos
Speaker 2:side. Yeah. Like a little secret one
Speaker 1:where you can do the things that were never expected of you. Mhmm. Where even if you grew up the way that we grew up, telling us your whole goal in life is to get married and pop out kids, you should never have a job, you should never think to be more. Mhmm. There's a little and it might not be a well marked path, but it's there.
Speaker 2:We're always told to, you know, stay in your lane. Right. And dream big, but not that big. Yeah. I think we should have achievable goals.
Speaker 2:Sure. But I even though I don't feel that confident or that independent, I like that people think that about me. Mhmm. I like faking it until I make it because that is truly what I wanna be as I've gotten older in my very old age. That's what I really discovered.
Speaker 2:All I wanna be is independent. Independent. Independent, confident, brave. I want to help other people be that way too. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I think of that quote from Bridgerton, and I know we've said it before, but it's where one of the moms tells her daughter, essentially, that you have to hold up your husband's dreams.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And she says, well, what about my dreams? And her mother says, women don't have dreams. Women have husbands.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I think of that in this instance of what's been told to us over and over and over, women don't have dreams. Women are not more. Mhmm. They are simply what they are. And men are meant to lead, and men are meant to make the big decisions and change the world and whatever.
Speaker 1:And you may change the world, but you're gonna change the world by raising your kids. Right. You're gonna change the world by making dinner on time, fill in the blank. Mhmm. And yet, here we are changing that narrative at least for ourselves and I hope for some of you as well.
Speaker 2:And I think I see women gravitate towards the stronger women out there too, the women who are making changes and making waves, but they don't wanna admit to it and they don't wanna admit to themselves that they wanna be that too. Right. But I say recognize those women. Recognize those strong, confident women that everybody gravitates towards, and you can be that too. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think, especially, like, for me, I'm I'm an introvert. I'm not really someone that if you met me on the streets and you're not someone I'm really comfortable around Mhmm. I don't think I come across as that strong, confident woman that could lead others into battle. I don't think that's my vibe.
Speaker 1:You could, actually. I would could lead these people, but only if they listen to me on a podcast. But I don't think, like, out on the street that that would be the vibe. But at the same time, I think we're all meant to do that and lead in totally different ways.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I can do that here. And our our church, the I think she's the head of operations or something like that. And she gets up on stage every week. And, I mean, she really could lead the church into battle. I'm not even kidding.
Speaker 1:Be scared of that woman. But strong, confident, and that's her place. That's her role. So whoever you are, even if you don't feel
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:This confidence, this strength, you still can have it. You just have to find the right place to have it.
Speaker 2:Right. Do do it with your own flair. Do it with your own flavor. It's just interesting that you say that because I see you totally differently. I know that you say that you're such an introvert and you don't like speaking whatever.
Speaker 2:You are good at public speaking.
Speaker 1:That's because I don't have
Speaker 2:to talk to anybody's face. And when I see you around in a big group, I feel like you speak speak very clearly and you speak your mind and your but I know that you say that you hate those things, but your actions say something
Speaker 1:different. It's because I think introverts and introverts out there, you can weigh in. Come tell us on our social medias. But I think introverts become really good actors and actresses because it's not socially acceptable to be introverted. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So you you learn how to fake it real good. I am a spectacular actress when it comes to this stuff.
Speaker 2:I don't know what I am because I feel like people if I'm in a group of people, I'm comfortable being the butt of a joke. Mhmm. And I'm comfortable having that kind of attention on me. Mhmm. But if you're talking to me 1 on 1 and I don't know you that well, I'm
Speaker 1:like, quiet. I don't talk.
Speaker 2:I don't I'm internally, my dialogue is like, think of a question. Think of a question. Think of a question. I'm the worst. Getting my hair done too, I'm like, oh.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is not a social situation I enjoy. My hairdresser has an option. When you book your appointment, you can add on to it, and if it's not something you pay for. But, like, it says silent appointment, please. I've never tried it because then I feel a little bit like a jerk.
Speaker 1:But it it says, never feel afraid
Speaker 2:to ask for a silent appointment if
Speaker 1:you're just overstimulated that day. And I, again, I've never done it, but I really appreciate that that is an option.
Speaker 2:It's so funny with me, though. I feel like if there are 3 or more, I'm good. Gathered together? Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2:Gathered together, 3 or more, Jesus is with us, and I'm much more comfortable continuing a conversation, building off what other people say. If it's just me and one other person, I'm panicking internally. I am panicking. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I can get up in front of a group of people. If at any point I have to get up in front of 100 of people and make a speech, I really don't have a problem with that because I'm not talking to anyone. Mhmm. I'm talking, like, in between you. I don't have to look at anybody's faces.
Speaker 1:But if I'm sitting 1 on 1 with someone, I have the need to fill the void. If there is awkward silence, I don't know I don't know what to do with my hands. I twitch. Like, it's not good.
Speaker 2:You do twitch. Yeah. But maybe it's the sense of, like, we need to make people comfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know? We don't wanna or maybe we're uncomfortable, and we're desperately trying to make ourselves comfortable. Thoroughly uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:I panic. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2:I don't know what to do. So, yeah, that's where I'm at. And if you have any further questions, you can direct them right to nowhere. To nowhere? That's good.
Speaker 2:Have I quoted this before on the podcast?
Speaker 1:I don't think so.
Speaker 2:If you are having a hard time or you just need a chance to talk, please, please do not talk to me. What's that from?
Speaker 1:This is
Speaker 2:from Dairy Girls. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I just went back to that and watched a couple episodes.
Speaker 2:So good. Sister Michael is my favorite character. She's great. I haven't finished it yet. Okay.
Speaker 2:Do I
Speaker 1:have to tell my story now?
Speaker 2:Oh, I felt like I talked for a long time.
Speaker 1:You did. I'm proud of you.
Speaker 2:I don't know that I said anything clearly or that made sense, but there we go. I think it did. I think it made sense.
Speaker 1:It it was your therapy session. Therapy doesn't always make sense. It's fine.
Speaker 2:Alright. Alright. Well, there we go. Your turn.
Speaker 1:So I was born in a
Speaker 2:flower. I think I said that.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I was not. I was not born in a flower. I was born in, a
Speaker 2:way I could
Speaker 1:say what city. No. I I think mine is a little bit more timeline y
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Just because that's the way I've thought of it in my head. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So Brie and I grew up, and we've said this many a time, but we grew up very Baptist. Yeah. Girl. And I remember as a kid, we were the family that went to church every Sunday. We put on our pretty dresses and except for Brandon.
Speaker 1:Brandon didn't put on his pretty dress.
Speaker 2:Well, sometimes he did. Do you remember that devotional that dad would read to us? Sometimes it had it was read, and then it had a family on the cover. Uh-uh. That's what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1:Apparently, that was not a core memory for me.
Speaker 2:I lopped that one. Anyways, we sat together as a family and read devotionals. Yeah. And I remember we went to
Speaker 1:this this church that I also went to school there for a while, and it was truly terrible. Truly the worst. Every morning, I would wake up before my mom would get us up for church, and I remember laying in bed praying. Praying with my whole little tiny soul that God would make something happen so we didn't have to go to church.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I remember also telling God, I know
Speaker 1:this is probably sinful, but please, please, please, please. Please don't make us go to church today.
Speaker 2:I'm sick, mom.
Speaker 1:I can't. Because it was just it was one of those environments that was not built for kids in particular. I don't know about the adults. I know mom and dad were pretty bored also. But specifically in the children's situation, I remember going to junior church, which was, like, the kids' version of regular service, church service, and and it was always the same dude.
Speaker 1:Same guy would sit up there and drone on and on. Can you imagine kids today? Oh, they would be running around the room.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. We were like, sit down, stay in your place, and if you move or speak or breathe, you're gonna die.
Speaker 1:And I remember we had these videos, and it wasn't they were not interesting videos. Okay? It was about Jesus, and it was really poorly animated, and I'm sure just terrible. And we would watch the same video. Anytime we had to watch a video, it was the same video.
Speaker 1:Okay? It was not we did not vary. We did not watch Veggie Tales. This was the same stupid terrible video. And I would get so excited when we would watch that video, the Sundays that we got like, that he was sick or whatever, because at least I didn't have to listen to this man talk.
Speaker 1:And that was church for me growing up. I don't know if the rest of you that did grow up in church, if that was your experience, but it was just boring.
Speaker 2:I think it's really interesting too the difference in the churches that we've been to. We've been to quite a few churches. Yeah. But, like, that church, I feel like you would go in and you'd be like, alright. How do we keep you in this box harder?
Speaker 2:Here's all the rules. If you're breaking the rules, go die. Yep. Whereas, I feel like now churches not all churches. Like, the church that you go to or the more non denam churches are like, here's where you go to
Speaker 1:grow Yeah.
Speaker 2:A little bit more.
Speaker 1:Hopefully.
Speaker 2:Hopefully, if you're going to the right churches.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think it it was. It was all about rules. It was all about staying your lane, and I just I really hated it. And then we we did leave there, and we went a few different places.
Speaker 1:We moved. I ended up there was one church that I actually liked going to, but it was strictly because I had a crush on a boy. Oh. And then other than that, I really didn't enjoy it. So there was that.
Speaker 1:But in high school, I was and we've skipped forward a bit, but I was the Christian girl. That was when I started going to public school. So Brie and I, we had quite the school journey.
Speaker 2:We've been to every kind of school.
Speaker 1:Every kind of school. We went to Christian school. So I was there from kindergarten to 2nd grade. And then we homeschooled. For me, it was from 3rd to 6th.
Speaker 1:And then I went to a charter school, which for me was 7th and 8th, and then public school for high school. And I was like I said, I was the Christian girl, and I don't know how to define it exactly. The girl that followed all the rules, I'm the first born. So, like
Speaker 2:Mhmm. That's it. Yeah. Because I was the same as you, but never like, people wouldn't define me as, like, the Christian girl.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But think of, like, the Christian girl but the
Speaker 1:first born kid, like, that follows the rules, that doesn't question the things that she's not supposed to quest like, I did what I was supposed to do. Right? Followed the lines until now, and now here we are. But I found out recently so this is, like, a new a new development
Speaker 2:in my story. Ba ba ba ba. You know those newscaster sounds? Yeah. That was a good one.
Speaker 1:News. Breaking news. So, I've kind of, like, reconnected with a good friend of mine from high school, and she's got kids the same age as my kids. And she had told me recently, we sat and had a conversation, and she was like, you know, when
Speaker 2:we were in high school, like, I was starting to question things and struggle, and I didn't think
Speaker 1:that I could turn to you because you just seemed like you never questioned anything about your faith and, like, you were this, again, like, the perfect Christian girl. Right?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I struggled with that
Speaker 2:a little bit because I was like, was I really like that? Was that the impression that I like, better than
Speaker 1:you, holier than thou? Yeah. Whatever. And I don't know if that's how people saw me or not. I really don't.
Speaker 1:But I think, Bria and I were talking about this earlier, that's how Christians are viewed.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Christians are often viewed
Speaker 1:as we don't ever question anything. Yeah. You can't have questions about your faith because if you do, you're going straight to hell.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And especially as someone who grew up in a very controlling churches and very like like, high control religion. It's this is what it was, where we grew up. And so I couldn't question it. And so if I couldn't question it, I couldn't have my friends questioning
Speaker 2:it either. You know? And if she had come to me with that, I I would love to sit there and say, like, I would have been so kind and loving, and I
Speaker 1:would have said, talk to
Speaker 2:me about that. How are you feeling? Like, what's going on in your life? Just having a conversation. I don't know if I would have.
Speaker 2:I would love to say that. I would love to
Speaker 1:say that I was that kind of person. But I think more than likely, I would've been like, oh my gosh. Well, we need to we need to figure this out. We need to get you back in church
Speaker 2:with me. To church with
Speaker 1:me. Yeah. Like because that's how I was taught to be. Mhmm. That's you never let anybody ask any questions.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And And I don't necessarily think it's, like, specifically our growing up environment. I think it's, like, the churches that we went to.
Speaker 1:Brie and I were also talking about this. Like, how do we teach our kids? Because part of it is just being naive.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:When you're a kid, things are so much more black and white. Mhmm. And how can we teach our kids, particularly our kids that were growing up in a faith based lifestyle
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:To not be that. That when their friends have questions, they can come to them and not expect judgment. Mhmm. And not expect, well, we need you need to get to church with me this Sunday. You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. But just to say, alright. Let's talk. Where you at? What can I do for you?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Just be more open with each other.
Speaker 1:Right. So that's that's kind of a side note. But the I was thinking about that today, and I don't know. It's just like a different part of my life that I never had really put a whole lot of thought into. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I think back on that girl, on the girl that I was in high school, and you wonder what that girl would think of you. You know? Like, if I could see me today, I would probably have great concerns. But it was it was very different. I was
Speaker 2:a very different person at that point in my life.
Speaker 1:So after high school, I went to a Christian college because that's what was expected of Bria and I. Hello. Now we did not, however, go to the Christian college that was expected of us. We were slightly rebels in that regard.
Speaker 2:I did feel a little bit rebellious.
Speaker 1:I did too. All of my girl cousins have gone to the same very, very strict Christian school. Very. Very.
Speaker 2:No pants. That's what I'm saying. No pants.
Speaker 1:Just for the girls. The the boys could wear pants. Someone's gotta be wearing pants.
Speaker 2:The boys could do whatever they want.
Speaker 1:But I was supposed to go there. That was the expectation, and I chose not to. And I was the first of the girl cousins to choose not to do that. Mhmm. And, sincerely and people asked me why I was not going there.
Speaker 1:And, sincerely, the reason was, family, if you're listening, I would've gotten kicked out. 4 minutes in, they would've said, get out. You can't be here. Even though I was the rule follower. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Even so, I just I could
Speaker 1:not have abided that level of rules. There's
Speaker 2:no way they would've let me on the campus.
Speaker 1:I don't think they would've let you in to begin with. Your application would've had the denied camp. You went to public school?
Speaker 2:Get out.
Speaker 1:So I did do a little bit more of the traditional Christian college because I
Speaker 2:did find my husband there. Yeah. You did. And you went to chapel sometimes.
Speaker 1:I did. Well, we were required to go to chapel. Breeze College, they were not, but I I did have to go to chapel. But I was, like, a serial dater also. Like, I didn't it's not like going out on dates.
Speaker 1:I guess I was, like, a serial boyfriend.
Speaker 2:You just couldn't be alone.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's fair. I had broken up with my high school boyfriend, and then, I don't know, like, 2 or 3 months later Immediately found your husband. Yeah. It very quickly started dating my now husband.
Speaker 1:And that was a big like, there was a lot of turmoil in my faith during that time Mhmm. And who I was supposed to be. And because I've always struggled with this concept of women being submissive, subservient wives and mothers. Mhmm. I that never sat right with me, and I would I remember as a kid thinking, I will never get married.
Speaker 1:I remember telling people, I will never get married. I will never have kids. Because in the Bible, I truly believed that god was asking of wives to be submissive. Clearly, I no longer believe that. Quite clearly.
Speaker 1:If you don't know that, pick any other episode and listen to it. There's quite a selection. But at the time, that's what I thought was true. And so I figured the loophole was not becoming a wife or mother. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And then I could still retain my independence. I could still be strong. I could still have the person that I had grown to be exist. I didn't have to tamp her down anymore. I had people telling me, and I think I said this in the the first episode, like, people told me, well, you need to stop being so strong willed because Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You're going to have to obey your husband someday. You need to not have such strong opinions because what if those opinions aren't your husband's opinions? And then you have to you have to have his opinions, obviously. Obviously. Or when I would get new piercings or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Well, what if your husband doesn't like it? It wasn't, this is biblically wrong. Now I think some people did believe that, but
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It was, what will your husband think? This man that I didn't even know, that didn't even exist in my world yet.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. He still owned you somehow. And And
Speaker 1:that just never sat okay with me. But in this Christian college, that that was the expectation. Mhmm. Much like your Christian college. That was the expectation.
Speaker 1:Find your husband, settle down, be quiet, be submissive. Don't get out of line. Demure. Yeah. And so I found my husband, and this is Nathan has never been one to expect that of me.
Speaker 1:He never expected me to be less than I was. He knew who I was, and he was very okay with that, but I expected it of me. Mhmm. And so that was a big struggle for me. We moved off campus, so I wasn't in the bubble anymore, the Christian bubble.
Speaker 1:I didn't go to chapel as much as they required. Mhmm. And we didn't always go to church, but we did find a church that we kinda sorta liked. More Nathan liked it than I liked it. He got very involved.
Speaker 1:Nathan is an extrovert. Okay?
Speaker 2:He like, you can say until you're blue in the face. Until you're blue in the face. You're not gonna get involved right away. You just wanna, like, take things slow, and he's like, I'm gonna play the guitar and the drums, and I'm gonna sing, and I'm gonna teach all the children, and I'm gonna hug all the people, and I'm gonna shake all the hands, and I'm gonna pray for everyone.
Speaker 1:You're not wrong. Probably within within a month, for sure, of us being at this church A week. He was on the worship band, and my husband is very talented. Okay? But he was in the worship band.
Speaker 1:He was leading a small group for, I think, like, the high school kids or something, which worst nightmare. Ew. Yeah. But everyone knew who he was. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:We walked in, 25 people had shook his hand, like and he would have gotten more involved if I had had any, like, ability to allow. Like
Speaker 2:because he was also working, and he was
Speaker 1:a student. So this took up a lot of his time. And through a large, long series of events that I won't, like, fully describe because it's extensive.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But we kind of got really screwed over by someone in that church. And I already was struggling with my faith. I already like, I didn't like being at that church because everybody loved Nathan, but nobody seemed to care that I existed.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And then we we got really, really hurt by someone in leadership in this church, financially very hurt by this person. And so we left that church, and I I'm pretty sure I made a vow, like, a a vow to the lord that I was never stepping foot in a church again,
Speaker 2:which is quite a vow to make to the lord. Yeah. And the lord is like,
Speaker 1:And, so we spent a long time not in church. I wanna say it was probably 3 or 4 years, which in my family is quite the thing to do. Mhmm. I got many a lecture, many a lecture about not being in church, but I just I was not there. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I think people think Christians are all about getting you in church, and some of them are. I I did some work for a church recently, and one of the reviews that they had on Google called them an MLM. Mhmm. Because it's just like, get more people in the door. Get more people in the door.
Speaker 1:You can rise up in the ranks and be important if you get more people in the door. Right.
Speaker 2:And for those of you
Speaker 1:out there struggling with going to church or whether you wanna go ever or not,
Speaker 2:I think that's okay.
Speaker 1:I think it's okay to have a period where you're not going to church.
Speaker 2:Have a period in church? Yep. Because otherwise, at least one week
Speaker 1:a month throughout. Or or to choose not to go to traditional church.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think that there is space for that. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I was not necessarily given the space for that in my circle, but I said, forget it. This is what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because I'm a rebel, and I've always said that about you.
Speaker 1:And so I spent a lot of time not in church. And my thoughts on god were essentially, like, he has favorites. He plays favorites, and I'm not one of them. It's not that I doubted that he existed. I just was not a favorite.
Speaker 1:And so, eventually, we did go back to church. And for in the interest of time, I won't go through the amount of church hurt that we've been through. Mhmm. But we found a church, found a home. Like, I felt like we found a church home, and then just got screwed over at every angle.
Speaker 1:I started working there, and then I got laid off because I caused problems, and the problems were not my fault. We got very, very involved very quickly at that church because I wanted to find a home there. I wanted to find my people there. I had never had a church community. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And so we just so desperately tried to find it, and we latched on to whatever we could do. We were serving in the kids department. Nathan was on the in the worship band. I was helping, like, lead the kids department. I had started an apprenticeship with them.
Speaker 2:You started a small group. We were leaders in a small group.
Speaker 1:We were in a small group. It was just like, it took up all of our time. I mean, it sincerely took up all of our time, and then it crashed and burned. And people that we trusted just hurt us in the worst possible way, hurt me in the worst possible way, became people I could not even stand to look at. And that happened to many people in that space.
Speaker 1:There are very few people from that space that I would look at and be like, oh, I want to associate with you now. Right. There are a couple. Don't get me wrong. Like, I'm not saying the whole place is bad, but it just it turned into a really hostile, horrible, scary environment that I was afraid to walk into.
Speaker 2:Like, literally not safe. Yeah. I was scared to walk through
Speaker 1:the doors because I was getting pinned into rooms, and I just couldn't do it anymore. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I
Speaker 1:didn't feel safe there. I didn't feel like my kids
Speaker 2:were safe there. And so we
Speaker 1:spent some more time out of church.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And, again, if you have been through these things that, unfortunately, is a very common story for women in churches Mhmm. And you wanna step away from the church because you don't feel safe there, please, please, please, please understand that I think that is a perfectly reasonable choice.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I hope you can get yourself to a place where you also feel that that is a perfectly reasonable choice. And so we went to some other churches, and we've been to a lot of churches. And throughout this whole thing, I had to find out who
Speaker 2:I was. I had to
Speaker 1:find out who I was outside of church, outside of the expectations that had been laid upon me. And Bria and I started this podcast, and and here we are still figuring it out. What up? And I found along the way that I didn't have to be just someone's wife and someone's mom. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Along the way, I found books called Jesus feminist,
Speaker 2:And then Making a Biblical Womanhood and Bridgerton. And Bridgerton. Maybe not quite the same.
Speaker 1:But I found all of these resources, and I found women that felt the way that I did. And I found people that had biblically shown that I didn't have to be that, that I could be more, that I could
Speaker 2:be something that I liked, someone
Speaker 1:that I was proud of.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And it doesn't mean that
Speaker 2:I'm proud of myself every day. I am. I'm proud of you.
Speaker 1:But I can be who I'm supposed to be, who I believe that god built me to be even though he didn't build me with a weenie.
Speaker 2:Woah. Usually, it's me saying that stuff, and with her saying it, I don't know what to do. I'm like, should we cut that?
Speaker 1:We're leaving that in.
Speaker 2:You said that, like, 5 times. If you can say it, I can say it. That's true. And, I mean, if that's all it takes to make you, like, just generally respected in the world, we could all go get surgery. We could all have little weenies.
Speaker 1:I that's what blows my mind is this concept. We read a poem couple weeks ago, I think maybe 2 episodes ago, where it talked about men having power but not responsibility. And actually, there my husband and I went and saw the Mufasa movie a couple of nights ago. And I actually I was if you're thinking about seeing it, it's better than I would have expected it to be. Weird.
Speaker 1:We're Disney people. I don't know what to tell you. We see all the Disney movies. Doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:But it
Speaker 1:it was better than I expected it to be. But there was a scene, and Brie and I are gonna maybe do a series where we talk about Disney movies so
Speaker 2:we can talk about this
Speaker 1:a little bit more. But there was a scene really shocking. But and there was a scene where there's, like, a particular pride of lions, and the the king of that pride of lions is laying there. And his son is saying, I wanna go with the women because they they hunt and they do all the exciting things, and I wanna go out with them and learn all this stuff. Right?
Speaker 1:And the dad is like, no. No. No. No. No.
Speaker 1:That's that's what the women do. The men he says males and females because they're lions, but you get the point. Mhmm. The men stay here, and he says something along the lines of, like, we keep them safe. We keep them safe just by being here.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Just by existing. And that's the power of privilege. And that really hit me of just, men are not out there doing anything spectacular to earn this privilege that they think they have.
Speaker 2:We earn our dreams in this world, Josephine.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying that all men are sitting out there being lazy and doing nothing. But what I'm saying is that this privilege and power that they that many of them seem to think that they have, particularly in the current environment, is given to them simply because they are genetically male. Mhmm. Not because they've done anything spectacular. Not that they've done anything that women cannot do just as well.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. It's like that, that TikToker. And I think I've reposted a couple things on our TikTok. But just this this guy, who's nothing special to look at, if I'm be being quite honest, and he's like, women should be this, and women should go back to wearing corsets, and women should do this, and women should do because don't they want a husband? Don't they want and I'm looking at this guy, and I'm like, not you.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. You are nothing special. What makes you think that you deserve all of this and more? And what makes you think you deserve to be respected
Speaker 1:Right. Just because you're a man? Right. I think it's really important to respect your partner, but respect is earned. Yeah, girl.
Speaker 1:Respect is not there because of your body. Like, what what
Speaker 2:you got going on down there.
Speaker 1:That's not why you deserve respect.
Speaker 2:Trust is also the same way. I remember, a few years ago, someone came into my life and was just like, you don't you trust me? You just have to trust. You just have to trust. Over and over again, that was thrown in my face, and I'm like, but why?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. What have you done that makes me want to trust you in any way?
Speaker 1:I think that's what gets lost in this conversation so often is until you show me as a human being that I can respect you, that I can trust you, that you are in any way deserving of making any of the decisions. And you're never gonna prove to me that you deserve to make all of the decisions because I don't think any of you out there are Jesus. But What? Even to make some of the decisions, like, I need you're right. I need to have seen that I can trust you.
Speaker 1:And until then, I am an independent human being, and I will make my own choices. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Girl, throw the microphone on the ground.
Speaker 1:No. Because then it'll hurt their ears.
Speaker 2:Kaboom.
Speaker 1:On our soap boxes. Perhaps we should step off of them at some point.
Speaker 2:What kind of soap is yours?
Speaker 1:Oh, I bought you know what I've been really into is the native soap. That stuff smells good. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I got the gumdrop one. Not my gumdrop button.
Speaker 1:It It does not smell like actual gumdrops, but it does smell good.
Speaker 2:But, anyway, off our soap boxes, what is your soap? Dove.
Speaker 1:You just pulled that out of your butt, Hopefully not.
Speaker 2:Hopefully not. I don't think soap goes in the butt. It depends. I don't think that's they usually say not for internal use.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I don't think I've said anyway yet this episode, and I really should have. Anyway, so next week what are we talking about next week?
Speaker 2:Well, we're gonna figure it out, won't we?
Speaker 1:So we're going into the new year and kind of restructuring a little bit of behind the scenes of how we record and stuff. So you might see a few more serieses. Serieses. I don't know what the plural of that is.
Speaker 2:I think it's just series.
Speaker 1:Alright. Well, you'll see several more
Speaker 2:of those, just because of the
Speaker 1:way that we're filming. So we're gonna have some cheese, we're gonna have some wine, and we're gonna plan that out, and we'll get back to regularly scheduled programming soon. Meaning next week. Meaning next week.
Speaker 2:As always, you cannot see our shining faces. It's a bummer for you. We're lovely. Not right now, though. No.
Speaker 2:Right now, we can look like crap. Yeah. My lips are really dry. It's dry outside. I like I think I peeled all of the skin off my lips.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. On that note, good night. Let's see you later. Bye.