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In this transformative episode, Danielle sits down with Dr. Laura Gallaher, a national bestselling author and expert in organizational psychology, who has led culture shifts at NASA, Disney, and Yahoo. Together, they explore the power of radical self-acceptance and how it holds the key to unlocking greater ease, success, and fulfillment in all areas of life.
Dr. Laura shares profound insights on:
Dr. Laura shares profound insights on:
- The difference between pain and suffering
- How radical self-acceptance can propel personal growth
- Overcoming self-judgment and embracing self-improvement
- The power of awareness, acceptance, and action in personal transformation
This episode dives deep into actionable strategies for embracing who you are—flaws and all—while continuing to pursue your highest potential. Whether you're a high-achiever battling self-criticism or simply looking to elevate your life, this conversation will inspire you to take a compassionate and powerful step forward.
Take Action:
This episode dives deep into actionable strategies for embracing who you are—flaws and all—while continuing to pursue your highest potential. Whether you're a high-achiever battling self-criticism or simply looking to elevate your life, this conversation will inspire you to take a compassionate and powerful step forward.
Take Action:
Want to know where you stand between self-acceptance and self-judgment? Take Dr. Laura’s free quiz and start your journey toward radical self-acceptance today!
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Follow & Connect:
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Liked this episode? Share it! And tag me @unscriptedpivots.com
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Connect with Danielle - “The WTF Lady”
Website | Instagram | LinkedIn | YouTube | TikTok
Connect with Danielle - “The WTF Lady”
Website | Instagram | LinkedIn | YouTube | TikTok
Creators & Guests
What is Unscripted Pivots: Inspiring Stories from WTF [Women That Flourish]?
If you’re looking to find connectivity in the female experience, you’ve found the right podcast. Unscripted Pivots (UP) takes a deep dive into how women can masterfully chart their lives only to end up in the most unexpected places. "Life is what happens while we are busy making other plans" and the most unpredictable detours, our “WTF” experiences, can shape us in ways we never dreamed possible. My podcast invites women to redefine “WTF”, calling them “Women That Flourish” moments instead. I’m your host, Danielle Sprouls, aka "The WTF* Lady", and my mission is to bring you weekly interviews with inspiring stories of women empowerment, identity loss, entrepreneurship, leadership, mental health, and more. We’re here to celebrate a woman's adaptability, resilience, and perseverance. No matter our unexpected detours, we can always move UP.
Danielle Sprouls (00:01.219)
Hey WTF friends, let me ask you something. When was the last time you looked in the mirror and truly accepted the person staring back at you? I mean radical, no holds barred self-acceptance. It's not always easy, right? Well, today's episode is going to change you in the best way possible. Welcome to Unscripted Pivots. I am your host, Danielle Sprouls, and I am absolutely thrilled to welcome today Dr. Laura Gallagher to the show.
Dr. Laura is not only a national bestselling author, but a powerhouse in the world of organizational psychology and transformation. And while some PhDs might be, you know, stay tucked away in the world of academia, Dr. Laura is out here shaking things up. She's been hired by NASA to transform their organizational culture after the Columbia accident. She's led groundbreaking performance management changes at Disney.
And she's even inspired the global teams at Yahoo to ignite change from within. and did I mention she brings all of this with a sense of humor? Today we're diving into something we could all use a bit more of, radical self-acceptance. Trust me, you don't wanna miss this conversation. So buckle up and get ready to take some notes because Dr. Laura is about to share some incredible insights on how embracing who you are can lead to achieving more than you ever thought possible.
Welcome to Unscripted Pivots, Dr. Laura.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (01:31.64)
Thank you so much, Danielle. I'm so happy to be here.
Danielle Sprouls (01:35.019)
So listeners, I met Dr. Laura just briefly online, I think it was yesterday, and she, looked at her website, all the things, and I will tell you, we could talk about just like so many, many topics. She's an expert in them all. And I invited her to kind of contribute as to what she wanted to focus on. And she said radical self-acceptance. And I'm like hell to the yeah. I was like, this is a good topic, you're an expert on it, and we all need to learn more.
So that will be the focus today, but in the show notes, you will see all the things to follow her and find her. And I encourage each and every one of you to check her out because she goes way beyond this conversation, but this is a good one. So Dr. Lohr, what exactly is radical self-acceptance and why do you believe it's so key in transforming our lives?
Dr. Laura Gallaher (02:25.058)
Radical self-acceptance is being fully and completely okay with who you are right now without changing a thing. That's the simplest way that I can describe what it is. I'm okay with myself. That means I'm okay with my flaws and imperfections. It means I'm also at peace with my strengths and my talents. And this is gonna sound like hyperbole probably, but...
Danielle Sprouls (02:35.385)
Hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (02:51.321)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (02:53.546)
Radical self-acceptance genuinely is the key to making literally everything in your life easier. Absolutely everything. Have you ever heard, have you ever heard that suffering equals pain times resistance?
Danielle Sprouls (03:02.908)
I can, yeah, I hear you, go ahead.
Danielle Sprouls (03:11.381)
Not put that way, but the message within that statement. Yes. Let's dive into that a little bit.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (03:15.894)
Yeah, yeah. So pain is inevitable throughout life. I think that most people can recognize that. Although if I was talking to myself from 20 years ago, I probably would have thought like, no, there's a way I can design my life so that there's no pain. Like I would have had this really hardcore perfectionist mentality that like, that's not true. know, these Buddhists don't know anything from thousands and thousands of years. Like I was adamant that I could somehow design the perfect life.
Danielle Sprouls (03:21.167)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (03:35.288)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (03:44.894)
very dangerous way to think by the way, but pain is inevitable.
Danielle Sprouls (03:47.183)
She's tried, she's failed and she's learned and she's here to teach us how there is a better way to go. You know, it's well, when I hear about pain, there's so many things about pain today. It's not that I welcome pain into my life, Dr. Laura. It's that I accept the importance of it and the value when it's transformed properly. But to your point that you were, I think, about to make because it was in the message of what you just said, is that, you know, pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (04:17.089)
Yes, that's exactly right. And I like to actually say that pain is inevitable, but suffering is a choice. And that can really hit deep sometimes for people. I know that I had a fairly defensive reaction to that the first time I heard it, because it didn't feel like something that I had any choice or control with. It felt like something that was just happening to me. Can I share a story with you that really
Danielle Sprouls (04:18.083)
Therein lies the difference.
Danielle Sprouls (04:26.19)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (04:46.369)
please do. We love a story.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (04:47.192)
helped me see. So as you mentioned, I had worked for NASA. And so I worked out at Kennedy Space Center, which is here in Florida. And there's a good bit of the drive from where I was living in Orlando to Kennedy Space Center, where there's no real traffic reports. Because at that point, it's just the causeway. And so you're just at that point. You're almost on center, but not quite. They don't report like, there's been an accident. There's a backup.
Danielle Sprouls (04:57.52)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (05:17.472)
And so this one morning I'm driving in and traffic comes to an absolute standstill and I am a good mile or more away from the space center still. This was very unusual. I had not experienced this before and I had planned my morning fine. I would have been on time if not for all of this traffic, right? And we were just completely stuck. And so I had a very frustrated reaction immediately like
Resistance. I think traffic is a very relatable place for most people and listeners to feel that resistance like, come on, the light screen, go. Yeah. Yeah. my gosh. In New York. Yeah. Right. So much resistance comes up for us in traffic. So I had immediate resistance to what was happening, which is really silly because that resistance doesn't help. doesn't do anything, but I had no information. I didn't know what was going on.
Danielle Sprouls (05:48.484)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (05:52.09)
Yes, especially in California where I am. Yeah, in New York where I came from. Yeah, I know traffic.
Danielle Sprouls (06:13.778)
Hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (06:15.33)
There was no, no radio report to listen to. This was also like 20 years ago. So, you know, even smartphones weren't what they are today. could not get any information. And I started to worry about things that in hindsight seemed so irrational, like I'm going to be late to my meeting. like, well, so is probably almost everybody else, right? Like I'm not alone in this traffic mess. And I just was getting more and more.
Danielle Sprouls (06:19.953)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (06:35.826)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (06:42.218)
angsty and frustrated like my blood pressure was just like my heart was pounding. I was getting so angry.
Eventually, traffic finally did clear up, and I made it. And my mental and emotional state by the time I got into work was just, I was so frazzled. Like, it totally messed up my whole day. And I share that story because I can reflect back on it and realize that I created so much suffering for myself in that experience. The pain is simply, I'm stuck. There's nowhere to go, because there really isn't even a way to turn around.
Danielle Sprouls (07:11.078)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (07:20.296)
that place like I really was. If I'm gonna be safe right trapped like there's nowhere for me to take my car I am stuck so that was the pain and knowing that it was changing my whole plan but it was my resistance that caused the suffering because if I had simply accepted in that moment like okay I don't know what's going on but clearly there is nowhere for us to go in this moment I could have put the car in park I could have
Danielle Sprouls (07:21.284)
No, I've been there.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (07:47.628)
rolled down the windows, I could have put the seat back, I could have put my feet up, right? I could have turned on some music. I could have actually gotten out of the car. I could have taken off my shoes and grounded in the grass that was next to the road. There were almost infinite choices that I had had I simply accepted what was going on. But I was so stuck in my own like misery and suffering that I was just resisting, resisting, resisting.
And the part about the story that I think felt the most profound for me was when I actually did learn what happened, there was a fatal accident.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (08:31.512)
I am there losing my mind and someone else is losing their life.
Danielle Sprouls (08:33.512)
Yeah. It's yeah, very, very good point. Very good point. I will tell you, there's a couple of things in this story that come to me, Dr. Laura. First of all, you know, being from New Jersey, working in Manhattan for, you know, 25 years, you know, I was around, I wasn't in New York when the day of 9 11. But I will tell you, ever since that moment, whenever I am redirected or, you know,
in traffic, stuck in traffic or things that happen. I always just I take a moment and say things are the way they should be. I don't know what it is that I'm avoiding, but you know, that helps me get into acceptance, right? And dispel the resistance. And it's really about practicing the power of the pause and take a minute and say, I have a choice here. I'm either going to react or I'm going to respond. And those two things can be very, very different from one another.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (09:12.46)
Yes.
Danielle Sprouls (09:29.064)
But yeah, fatal accident. And as a mama of four, I always think of like, you know, somebody probably lost their life and I can just dial it down for a minute, you know? So the anxiety that I used to have really doesn't exist for me today because of the things that you teach and that you practice, I also have as a way of life today, which is very, very liberating that I can tell you. But let's be honest, Dr. Laura.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (09:29.068)
Absolutely.
Mm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (09:36.75)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (09:47.906)
That's amazing, Danielle. Yes.
Danielle Sprouls (09:53.395)
You know, accepting things, self-acceptance, radical self-acceptance, seeing it just so powerfully in black and white, you know, it's a choice, but it really is a lifestyle, right? So there must be some baby steps that you coach your clients to begin to make that transformation because this can be a light bulb moment, which it is, but it's not a switch that comes with it. Like, OK, that makes sense. Let me do that now. Right. There's a probably a
Dr. Laura Gallaher (09:57.101)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (10:04.919)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (10:20.61)
Right.
Danielle Sprouls (10:21.877)
process, a journey, if you will, a daily choice to getting there. So let's talk about that.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (10:26.988)
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely. And I had a big almost laugh reaction at Journey because I do have this tattoo right here on my wrist that says Journey. And no, not the band, because I am a Journey fan.
Danielle Sprouls (10:36.309)
okay. It does. Okay. The band was good though, back in the day before I think it was Steve Perry left. okay. So you guys will see this on YouTube. I encourage you to watch this video and not just listen. Dr. Laura is showing a tattoo.
When did you get that and tell us a little bit about that but also answer the other question This is an organic unfolding of our of our insights get Yes, just the process
Dr. Laura Gallaher (10:57.165)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (11:01.624)
course I will come back to it. Yeah, just trust the process. So I got this tattoo in March of 2019 and I had just come back from a year of working and traveling internationally. So I lived in 11 countries over 12 months while I was still running my business and this was
Danielle Sprouls (11:12.21)
Okay.
Danielle Sprouls (11:21.662)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (11:29.855)
Wow.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (11:31.17)
Before COVID, which the good news is I was actually able to travel, the hard news was most of my clients were like, I don't know about the virtual thing, let us know when you're back in person. And so was actually a really, really, really difficult year for me, even though it was cool. There was a lot about it that was amazing and fun, but at the end of the year, I realized that my key takeaway from that whole experience was surrender. And that had been a focus.
Danielle Sprouls (11:42.133)
Mm.
Danielle Sprouls (11:57.202)
Okay.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (11:59.616)
of mine for years and I still wasn't there and I realized this is a journey. Like this is not, it's like you said before Danielle, it's not flipping a switch and like, I've done it. It is a practice is another keyword that I like to say it is a practice. How can I continuously practice radical self-acceptance? So that's some of the origin story for the journey tattoo. As far as how to practice that, I do want to give your listeners a really
Danielle Sprouls (12:02.366)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (12:10.163)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (12:15.349)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (12:29.422)
tangible tactical thing they can do. And before that, I want to explain one of the key reasons people are actually resistant to self-acceptance. Most people, when I talk about radical self-acceptance, think, well, if I accept myself, then what? I'm just complacent? I just stop getting any better? And I think that's the most important myth about self-acceptance to dispel. Because
Danielle Sprouls (12:38.304)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (12:56.916)
Okay.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (12:57.952)
The opposite of self-acceptance isn't self-improvement. The opposite of self-acceptance is self-judgment. So I can focus on self-improvement from the lens of self-judgment, which is what most of my high-achieving clients tend to do, or I can focus on self-improvement from the lens of self-acceptance. And so that, we call that this paradox theory that says that self-acceptance and self-improvement coexist.
Danielle Sprouls (13:24.564)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (13:27.564)
When you can wrap your mind around that, it starts to really shift the paradigm and it changes the worldview to say, so self-acceptance doesn't mean just kind of giving up and stopping my growth.
Danielle Sprouls (13:42.742)
I love how you're saying that Dr. Laura because what it's bringing into my mind is that the shift becomes focusing on the problem to focusing on the solution. Right. So when we dispel the self judgment it doesn't mean we're giving up the self improvement you know proactive journey that we're on to to get better or do whatever especially for the high achievers. But you know where we're going not necessarily where we are.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (14:09.507)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (14:09.548)
While also staying present but but I love it because the self-judgment is so easy to begin from a critical state of mind which you know that gets us nowhere. I want to just bring up a quote. I was looking at your Instagram and something really just I just loved it. Let me say so the quote goes I found myself in this constant pursuit of happiness rather than finding happiness in the pursuit.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (14:18.263)
Yes.
Danielle Sprouls (14:36.537)
That's a quote from Dr. Laura. And I said, okay, that's going on my fridge. You know, because within that, it also speaks to the positivity around your message. Because when you just hear radical self-acceptance, first of all, when I hear the word radical, I'm like, okay, this means extreme. This is going to be hard. This is just like, you know, there's no nuance to it. And yet there is. There's so much depth behind that actual.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (14:36.917)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (14:42.272)
Hahaha!
Dr. Laura Gallaher (14:54.602)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (15:02.456)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (15:06.021)
you know journey that there is with the radical self-acceptance, but I love about the you know, the whole happiness in the pursuit, right
Dr. Laura Gallaher (15:13.068)
in the pursuit, yes. And I would love to take full credit for that quote. I did not, I'm not the origin for it. I can't remember the exact place that I learned it. know Dr. Benjamin Hardy writes about it in his books. He's also an organizational psychologist, but I think it actually comes back to somebody more from history, but it is profound.
Danielle Sprouls (15:27.16)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (15:30.925)
Well, you know, at the end of the day, I I credit you with bringing it to my awareness. And here's the thing, right? We're all walking versions of something earlier that we were taught, right? And we are gifted the opportunity to share that information, that insight, that perspective. And so I'm crediting it with you because this is where I found it. So thank you for saying somebody else may have written it, maybe in a different way. But the message is for everybody.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (15:42.029)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (15:48.674)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (15:55.726)
You
Danielle Sprouls (15:59.297)
Right, Dr. Laura, the message is for everybody. So talk to me about, you know, we think about radical self-acceptance, the word self in and of itself is like a personal journey, it sounds like, right? But you also assist organizations. mean, know, Yahoo, Disney, we're talking NASA people. I mean, she's been there, done that. How does the radical self-acceptance
Dr. Laura Gallaher (15:59.426)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (16:14.947)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (16:27.17)
in those larger platforms work? Can you give any comparison or, yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (16:30.828)
So yeah, absolutely. And I'll probably actually go back to NASA, really, is where I started my career. And it's where I learned about how profound this kind of work can be. So I was studying organizational psychology already. I thought, this is already super important. We spend far too much of our lives at work, going to work, to not have it be a productive and fruitful and enjoyable place. And then,
Danielle Sprouls (16:48.621)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (16:59.298)
When the Columbia accident happened in 2003, and I was given the opportunity to come in and help transform their culture, I learned a lot about what the investigation revealed. And what it comes down to is obviously much more complex than what I can talk about just in our time today. But as a psychologist, I was blown away by the reality that some of the smartest people in the world
know, rocket scientists, Nobel Prize winners, were in a system that reinforced beliefs combined with self-deception that led them to make decisions that killed seven people.
Danielle Sprouls (17:40.474)
Mm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (17:45.506)
So it wasn't a question of intelligence. It was a question both of the system factors and then the intrapersonal factors. I would imagine all of your listeners can identify with a moment or maybe multiple moments at work when they had a thought of, know, I could speak up right now. I could express disagreement right now with my boss or I could share that I think that something's maybe gonna go off of the rails, but.
Danielle Sprouls (17:52.1)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (18:14.466)
I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to upset somebody. I don't want to hurt people's feelings. So they didn't feel the psychological safety in that moment to speak up. That is one piece of what was happening inside NASA's culture. And so radical self-acceptance ties into that because if I am radically self-accepting, I am not going to allow a fear of upsetting somebody.
Danielle Sprouls (18:15.93)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (18:42.926)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (18:43.398)
or even my career being set back, I'm not going to let that stop me from doing what I genuinely think is the most effective thing to do. I put myself and my ego down here and I put what I think is right up here. And I'm making it sound very sort of crystal clear and like easy and obvious. And most people listen go, well, yeah, of course, of course. But self-deception is the challenge. If I...
and thinking it's not going to make a difference. I'm just going to rationalize and talk my way out of speaking up.
Danielle Sprouls (19:18.203)
Sure. Sure. And, you know, it brings up things about fear, right? And so there's all these, you know, around speaking up. whenever we're really denying ourselves, especially when we're going to make an informed decision and statement that would be contributing to seriously contributing to a situation, you have to get outside that sense of fear. And for me, you know, as the younger version of me did, played small, stayed small and
Dr. Laura Gallaher (19:23.96)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (19:40.12)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (19:46.168)
Mm.
Danielle Sprouls (19:46.835)
to your story though, that could be catastrophic. But even for the everyday lives and whatnot, we're really denying ourselves and the people around us some decision-making that can be happening as a group that's really for the benefit of the whole. And it's not that you're just promoting yourself and your ego, but it also brings up to my mind seeking external validation.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (19:50.392)
Yeah, yep.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (20:03.725)
Yes.
Danielle Sprouls (20:11.632)
you know, the obsession with that. And you really can't get to radical self-acceptance if you're caught up in that people pleasing mode that is so easy to us that, you know, even culturally was introduced as something that was positive. Right. And so because you weren't self-seeking in that moment. And at the end of the day, there's just there's a big shift that's happening in the world. That's why I love what you're studying, what you're doing, the messages you're delivering in your work. They're so critical because they really kind of
Dr. Laura Gallaher (20:11.896)
Yep.
Danielle Sprouls (20:41.72)
upend some of the beliefs that we were taught. Right? And it's time, yeah, it's time to have that growth mindset. You know, there's the buzzword, right? And then we talk about intelligence and then we talk about EQ, emotional intelligence, right? That's really been introduced, you know, over the last several years into organizations. you I think the term is almost overused, but the shift is no less important. So what kind of things are you seeing?
Dr. Laura Gallaher (20:44.844)
Yes. And yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (20:49.368)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (21:09.923)
both on the personal side with the coaching or even on the larger scale clients that you help in organizations. mean, do you see that there's this readiness to make these shifts?
Dr. Laura Gallaher (21:23.416)
I really do. And I will acknowledge that I get to work with a segment of the global population that is pretty cool. Sometimes when I talk about what I do, people say, gosh, that must be hard to get companies to hire you to come in and do that kind of thing. And I'm like, is it? I don't know. I'm pretty busy. Because the people that would have no interest in hiring an organizational psychologist, I don't even talk to them. They just don't end up.
Danielle Sprouls (21:24.505)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (21:32.955)
Hmm
Danielle Sprouls (21:46.535)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (21:53.11)
on my radar or norm me on their radar. So I get to work with leaders who already understand or have core beliefs that align with mine, like how people feel about themselves and the organization matters. Creating a truly effective culture actually drives business results. And so when I'm working with leaders like this, I absolutely feel the readiness as soon as I start to talk about some of these ideas and I help each
Danielle Sprouls (21:56.357)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (22:07.682)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (22:22.958)
high achieving person shine a light on what does it look like in areas of my life where I have a self acceptance gap. Those are the key areas of their lives that they're really wanting to change and shift. And what's so empowering about radical self acceptance as a practice is that it is wildly empowering. It brings everything back instead of me feeling like a victim or me turning into a
Danielle Sprouls (22:43.899)
Mm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (22:50.374)
and blaming other people when I don't like how I feel about something, it helps me see that I actually have infinite choices for how I handle any situation and that the more I can practice that radical self-acceptance, the more I'm going to actually listen to my own intuition and trust it and allow it to guide me, speak up without fear of external validation, and everything becomes easier.
Danielle Sprouls (23:13.691)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (23:19.157)
You know what's in my mind right now is that, you know, before acceptance, to your point about the organizations that you're working with that get it, that align with your thinking, what they're starting with is a state of awareness because you have to have awareness before you can even address acceptance. And so tell me a little bit about
Dr. Laura Gallaher (23:34.115)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (23:40.733)
You know, and I talk about, in fact, you know, I'm in the middle of writing this book. I wrote the book. Now we're editing the book. me, I'm editing it before it actually goes out there. And I literally was up 530 this morning working on one of my chapters. And, you it was about the three A's. And we talk about awareness, acceptance, and then action, right? So there's the process. So it's so funny that you and I just happen to be talking about this today, because that's what I'm working on in my chapter. And I'm a big believer in that process. How do you help for those that are not?
Dr. Laura Gallaher (23:44.008)
Mm-hmm. Exciting.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (23:56.621)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (24:05.634)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (24:09.423)
already aware but seeking help because what they do know is something's wrong but they have no awareness of like what it is and whatnot. Walk us a little bit through the process of your coaching style where you're helping them become aware, dial in and get into the acceptance so that they can then transform into the know the action.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (24:14.766)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (24:32.076)
We look at five different sources of self-awareness in the work that we do. And I say we because I run a small boutique consultancy. It's not just me. We love to actually facilitate in pairs. And so these different sources of awareness, when a leader or a person goes through these different sources of self-awareness, they usually get some degree of conflicting information about themselves.
Danielle Sprouls (24:35.964)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (24:41.137)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (24:58.978)
Their own self-perception, for example, maybe doesn't match the feedback that they get from their peer group. Or maybe it matches for two or three of them, but then for other two or three, it's different. But that doesn't match what comes up through the imagery that we walk them through when we tie the imagery back to core elements of self. And so we like to, again, of shine that light in multiple directions, multiple angles, so they can start to notice, huh, there's something.
here doesn't quite align. In what way might I be self-deceived? And then we talk about self-acceptance as actually being a ceiling for self-awareness. So I'll give you an example. Let's say, well, Danielle, you find, are you like me? Do you have a strong inner critic voice or have you historically had a strong inner critic voice? Historically.
Danielle Sprouls (25:31.141)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (25:41.327)
Okay.
Danielle Sprouls (25:53.224)
Historically on occasion I I now have kind of silence. We'll call her Sally. I take Sally sit down Okay, you know it comes in I'm human and I say Sally sit down. Okay No, no room for you today. Okay. There you go
Dr. Laura Gallaher (26:02.712)
Yes. Okay, so I love that you've named her. Yeah. So if you think about, you know, and go back 15 years or 20, before you had built this kind of relationship with Sally, where you could just say, down, Sally. Think about how Sally would speak to you if you made a mistake or came up short in some way.
Danielle Sprouls (26:18.139)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (26:28.202)
Now imagine that you have somebody working with you or working for you and they come to you and you speak to them the way that Sally spoke to you. Oof, right? Just kind of picture that interaction for a moment. It's probably rough. And now ask yourself, is that person more likely or less likely to come to you again if they make a mistake or come up short?
Danielle Sprouls (26:41.126)
Yeah, it's.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (26:56.492)
Most people say, yeah, less likely. They're going to go, that was unpleasant. I don't want to be vulnerable like that again. I don't want to feel belittled or demeaned, or I don't want to feel guilt or shame, right? Like any of those feelings. And so that's what's happening in our own minds. When we are leaning into self-judgment, which would be like a Sally or an inner critic tendency, then our inner mind actually starts hiding things.
Danielle Sprouls (26:58.897)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (27:25.998)
from ourselves. And this is tough for most high achievers to really grok because they're like, no, like my inner critic points out all kinds of things. I'm very aware of all of my shortcomings. But the reality is you're only allowing yourself to see and know the things that your self-acceptance can hold and tolerate. And so as we can increase self-acceptance, our ability for self-awareness also grows. And we can.
Create more space for more self-acceptance by normalizing the human experience, by introducing paradigm shifts, to say that you don't actually need somebody like Sally yelling at you to fuel your growth and improvement, right? You've shown that to yourself. You've really, for the most part, gotten that under control. And you are still a rock star, and you're still growing every day. You're writing a book, right? And so we need to have these shifts for people.
to create space for self-acceptance to grow, and then they become more self-aware.
Danielle Sprouls (28:27.838)
Well, I love this. And what it's reminded me, Dr. Laura, is that, you know, the compassion that we give to others, we have to give to ourselves, right? It brings up self-compassion and self-compassion is, you know, that doesn't come easily all the time. It really doesn't. And I can see as you're working with the high achievers, which are also my client base, right? Everybody wants to focus on like, you know, all the things and they're down on themselves. And you know, it's amazing to me.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (28:38.501)
Absolutely.
Danielle Sprouls (28:55.901)
is how incredibly accomplished and smart and even kind, like all the good stuff. And yet they don't see it in the same lens. There's like no clarity there when they're starting to go into self-judgment. That's why this work is so important because until you get into self, you know, the radical self-acceptance, you really can't get very far at all. At all.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (29:02.177)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (29:06.766)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (29:19.916)
Yeah, I totally agree. It becomes a ceiling. And I think the hard part with our high achieving clients is that they've gotten as far as they have by judging themselves. And they just don't yet know maybe how much further they can go and how much more enjoyable the journey can be. Because there is no.
Danielle Sprouls (29:26.621)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (29:33.885)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (29:38.374)
Yeah, and moreover, if you're going to be judging yourselves and staying in that mindset as a leader, you're probably judging those that you're leading. And that is just at the end of the day, that starts to get catastrophic. That's, know, like something that keeps feeding on itself. What is like one small, actionable step that someone can take when they're looking to embrace what it is that you're talking about today?
Dr. Laura Gallaher (29:45.814)
Absolutely.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (29:49.706)
It does.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (30:04.012)
Yes, I'm excited to share this with your listeners. So it's called taking credit. And I'll explain a bit about what this is. I want, I want you to think about it. Like just starting to do baby pushups. This is probably building muscle that is new. So it might feel weird. It might feel hard. It might feel super uncomfortable. None of those are good reasons not to do it. You want to practice taking credit, build the muscle up.
Danielle Sprouls (30:10.129)
Okay.
Danielle Sprouls (30:17.789)
Okay.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (30:32.758)
An example of this, let's say, and this actually was true for me probably nine or 10 years ago, I decided I was going to become a runner and I was like, I'm going to go run three miles and I put on my shoes and I went out into the neighborhood and I had not even quite made it a mile and I was practically wheezing and my side was cramping up and like my legs were on fire and I was like, okay, I'm going, I'm going back.
Danielle Sprouls (30:43.916)
Okay, here's a go.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (30:59.99)
You know, like that's good. I kind of looped around. like, there's my house. Maybe I'm just good for right now. Now, most high achievers are going to look at that and go, god, I couldn't even get a mile. I was supposed to go for three. So pathetic, right? Or some version of that. They're going to focus on the gap and not the gain. Taking credit would sound like, you know what? I am proud of myself for getting out there and running the 0.8 miles that I did run.
Danielle Sprouls (31:00.612)
Ha
Danielle Sprouls (31:11.304)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (31:15.004)
Yeah, I get it.
Danielle Sprouls (31:19.528)
Okay.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (31:28.834)
that's point eight miles more than I ran yesterday. So practicing taking credit it is it's focusing on the gain instead of the gap because there's always going to be a gap Danielle right for
Danielle Sprouls (31:41.634)
No, you know, I'm right there with you, Dr. Laura. We are we really there's a lot of overlap in the way that we think and approach life. You know, so I Dr. Laura doesn't know me well. We were introduced by a mutual podcast type of company. And so I am known as the WTF lady. WTF stands for women that flourish on the podcast. On the podcast, you're on and you are a woman that flourishes.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (31:45.494)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (31:51.276)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (32:06.58)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Danielle Sprouls (32:09.97)
So within the WTF, I've taken the coaching that I'm doing and everything's about WTF, right? So to your point that you're making right now, what I call this is WTF, which stands for win tiny first. And what I drive home consistently is the message that you're saying in a different way that we need to celebrate, acknowledge and just, you know, as we're going towards that goal, whatever that goal may be, the three mile run.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (32:24.419)
Mm.
Danielle Sprouls (32:38.491)
Everything that we do those small wins that were showing up in a different way because we're moving towards something. These things are wins in and of themselves. So you WTF you win tiny first. Do not overlook that. It is is so easy for all of us myself included to say, well, that was a failure. I set out to do this and I didn't. Well, just back up the bus. OK, because yes, you did.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (32:50.04)
Absolutely.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (33:01.955)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (33:07.026)
First you were aware of what that goal was going to be, you made shifts and steps to approach that goal, and you're working towards it. This brings up perfectionism. We fall into this whole thing like, okay, we've got an idea and it's gotta be perfect, and perfect out of the gate. Now, it's so downright ridiculous, right? There's no way. I don't even wanna be perfect, okay? I just enjoy the process.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (33:07.117)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (33:19.213)
Yes.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (33:24.515)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (33:31.724)
Let's start with perfect and get better from there. Right.
Danielle Sprouls (33:33.727)
Yeah, but you know, it's not so great, especially for, you the clientele that you have and that I actually service and that we kind of both fall into as well, right? Not to toot our own horn, but to be willing to suck at something before you get good because the problem becomes or the problem is or the problem was, let's put this as a historical thing, is that we're used to being great at certain things. So...
Dr. Laura Gallaher (33:44.162)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (33:51.692)
Yes.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (33:59.854)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (34:00.51)
All of a sudden, you know what it's like to be proficient, efficient, and just like, you know, excel. And that's your reputation and that's your identity and that's your brand. And then you get outside your comfort zone to try something new. And all of a sudden, you're back into kindergarten. You know, my 20, 24 year has been all about that. I mean, the struggle is real as I try to wear so many hats that I never had to when I was in corporate America. But you know what? It's also exhilarating. There can be a really like youthful kind of experience of saying,
I have no idea, but you know what? I'm on my way. So whatever that goal is, again, to that message that you had, which is going to be in my refrigerator, I want to say it again. I found myself in this constant pursuit of happiness rather than finding happiness in the pursuit is what she has on her Instagram is one of the posts. And, you know, it all goes back to that. Right. It's the actual process. It's the actual journey. It's not just the end goal.
And because we just, you know, experienced so many unscripted pivots, that goal may never happen. You know, I tell my clients like, look, you know, have a goal. Goals are good. You know, and I mean, I don't have a plan necessarily. I believe in planning and I believe in strategically moving forward. But the plan. Well, let me tell you, life is what happens when, we're busy making other plans. Right. And when you get fixated on that and if you and if you think you fall short, it's because it didn't go according to your script.
But our life script is so much bigger than what it is we set to do. And I will tell you this wholeheartedly, I believe this, that if I had everything that I wanted in life, you know, if my script looked like that, I would have denied myself the life that I have today. I have no problems. Even the obstacles, even the heartaches of which there were many, I would have denied myself. I was thinking so much smaller. So it's about that open mindedness. It's about congratulating yourself.
celebrating the tiny wins because they count. They are concrete evidence that you were capable of going further. Right. But when it comes to running, you said that and all of a sudden I went and I'll be honest with you, I went to self judgment, I went wah, wah, wah because one of the things I have always wanted to do and have yet to actually execute is to become a runner. Now, at my age, I convinced myself that it's probably not good for me. OK, because, you know, the hips and this and that and I want to keep things like working.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (36:07.552)
Absolutely.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (36:19.296)
Danielle Sprouls (36:26.94)
But I have always, I have always, Dr. Laura always looked at people that ran, you know, like even more than a hobby. I was actually married to a guy who when we were first dating, he used to run marathons, right? And just the hours and the commitment involved in that. And whenever I see people running, I'm like, look at them. I wish I did that, you know, which is kind of silly. I don't even have to be run three miles. I could power walk them. And I do do that.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (36:50.798)
Totally.
Danielle Sprouls (36:51.146)
But I mean, just show off for yourself in the way that you want to. But when you did say that I went into little self-judgements, I'm calling myself out here. Yeah, well, because I live for the most part in a heightened state of awareness, right? And sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. You know what I say, Dr. Laura, every day I look for that aha moment. I really do because our lives are filled with them.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (36:54.285)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (36:57.915)
So useful to notice that. Thank you for sharing that, Danielle.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (37:07.662)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (37:16.31)
Yeah, beautiful.
Danielle Sprouls (37:19.899)
And there was a time that I would have been like, how could you not have seen or noticed this before? And today I just live in a state of gratitude that that awareness came to me, right? And when I start cruising along and the days turn into weeks and I didn't get any aha moments, I start saying, uh-oh, if I don't get an aha, go, uh-oh, you're not paying attention. You are missing something because we always have the chance.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (37:25.688)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (37:30.978)
Yes.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (37:39.651)
Mm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (37:49.375)
to see more, learn more, do more, but not because we're broken or need to be fixed, because those opportunities are before us if we so choose to pursue. But it's one of those things that is a journey. I love that you have that tattoo on you. When you said you visited, did you say 11 countries in 12 months?
Dr. Laura Gallaher (38:14.092)
Yes, yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (38:15.569)
My tattoo would have said, tired. Okay. I would have came back from that and I would have said, tired. We're putting that on my wrist. Okay. Can we just go back for a moment? Could you tell us what you were doing? Because not many people get that kind of experience. tell us what were you doing in 11 countries in, you know, 12 months? What was that about?
Dr. Laura Gallaher (38:17.614)
That would have been fitting too. Yes, yes.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (38:35.009)
gosh. So I actually really wanted to move to Sydney, Australia in 2017. I decided I was going to do that. And I ran into visa obstacles. Didn't see a way to do it. And somebody suggested that I do this remote year thing instead. And so it's actually a company that I paid as a service. They handle all the flights, all the logistics. They find the accommodations. They find a co-working space in every single city. And they provide you with a local team in every country.
Danielle Sprouls (38:41.074)
Okay.
Danielle Sprouls (38:54.396)
Okay.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (39:03.938)
to help you learn the culture when you first arrive. So I was like, what an amazing way to do this because I personally don't enjoy planning logistics for travel. I thought if I had to do that, I would never go. I would never visit all these places. It's just too much. And so it was cohort based travel. So we were all working professionals who had the ability to work remotely, but wanted to do it while moving all around the world.
Danielle Sprouls (39:06.547)
Really?
Danielle Sprouls (39:12.903)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (39:29.582)
And so I was still running my business. I did actually come back to the States a couple of times to meet with our clients in person. I was still doing coaching, even if I was in Asia, you know, I'm coaching people at 11 PM midnight. Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (39:35.198)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (39:39.145)
This is incredible. How old were you at this time? mean, give me some sort of time frame.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (39:45.004)
Yeah, this I was 34.
Danielle Sprouls (39:47.697)
Okay, so you were an adult. This wasn't like, you know, post college, I'm just going to take a backpack. I mean, you're full, full on living the adult life, had the career intact, and you had the opportunity to do that. That's amazing.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (39:49.516)
I was an adult. Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (39:58.796)
Yeah. And I actually brought, I brought my employee with me. had an assistant who I had just hired about six months earlier. And I said, do you, do you want to travel the world with me? And I was actually shocked when she said, yes, I thought that would be way too big of a change for her. She was 23 or 24 at the time. and she said, yes. And so it was an incredible bonding experience too, for the, the both of us to go through that altogether.
Danielle Sprouls (40:14.865)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (40:24.223)
Well, just your exposure to those different cultures and whatnot has really probably lent itself to the depth of your work because you're not just talking about, you know, your neighborhood where you're working today or whatever. You have been exposed and lived and seen how all the different cultures can embrace this type of, you know, work with the radical self-acceptance. Right. Because what we learn a lot of times, Dr. Laura, I you'll agree we have to unlearn.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (40:27.468)
Yes.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (40:39.352)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (40:49.442)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (40:53.693)
Right? cultures are different. even if we could all be like, OK, I live in Orange County now, but I'm from Jersey. you know, even though I wouldn't tell you everybody in my neighborhood learned what I learned, I mean, that's particular to family, how you're raised, what you're taught. Right. And I think that probably one of the most challenging but liberating experiences in my life was, you know, later on as an adult, I recognized that.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (40:53.974)
Yes, I totally agree.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (41:07.967)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Danielle Sprouls (41:21.075)
there was more to the world outside than what it was that I going to believe. And it wasn't that I was going to adopt what everybody said, but I had a more open mind as to what things could be. And once I did that, I became a better listener, as opposed to a talker. So valuable, so valuable. Because there's a lot of unlearning to do sometimes.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (41:35.854)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (41:39.444)
so valuable.
Danielle Sprouls (41:50.369)
You know, just to think better. think that the generations today, you know, I four kids, you know, they're full-blown adults now, 25, 29, 31, 33, the list goes on. But really, you know, their generations were a whole lot more open-minded about things. And so I do see the world shifting that way than, you know, me. I'm class of 1964, so.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (42:07.8)
Hmm. Hmm.
I agree.
Danielle Sprouls (42:16.756)
But I'm on board with all of it now. I have caught up to some degree. I think that radical self-acceptance is something that is a real game changer when, you know, just living a life that is full more of joy than judgment. the whole, you know, that saying Dr. Laura comparison is the thief of joy. And that is true.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (42:19.873)
Yeah.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (42:35.756)
Yeah. Yes.
Danielle Sprouls (42:46.788)
And it took some doing, but the way I live my life now, and I say it a lot on this podcast, is that I'm no longer comparing myself to you, to anybody else. I wake up and I look in the mirror and I'm like, OK, Danielle, this is you. What's the goal? To be a better version of that, you know, yesterday. That's the only goal. And if I look at you or somebody else and I want what you have, that to me is a source of inspiration, not envy.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (43:15.168)
Absolutely. That's actually a self acceptance thing. I think your ability to do that is you're not in self judgment as you look. You're self accepting and going, wow, look what I can also always
Danielle Sprouls (43:16.734)
Right? if you... Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Because there will always be somebody that's something bigger, okay? Whether it's prettier, richer, smarter, more advanced. I mean, come on. That is just going to be... And the point, the thing is that we can all walk into any given room and the things that maybe would have in the past made me envious maybe wouldn't make you.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (43:33.622)
Yep.
Danielle Sprouls (43:44.424)
We are attracted to the things that are really meant for us. That's how it gets on our radar. So if I see something that I want, okay, to become or to be, I don't mean like, you know, be five nine, because that would be nice and that's not happening, right? But if somebody has something, I'm like, look at that, that got on your radar. That's a source of enlightenment and information that maybe you wanna move towards that. yes, right, it's useful information.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (43:45.134)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (43:58.926)
you
Dr. Laura Gallaher (44:08.876)
Yes, that's useful.
Danielle Sprouls (44:13.234)
It's not like, they're just better. I'll never get there. You know what? Everybody started somewhere, which is why I like to have people on this podcast and say, hey, we celebrate your success and where you are today and where you're going. But that journey wasn't overnight. Nobody really is thinking about all the nose that person encountered and the heartache or the hardships or all the kind of denials, right, that are along the way. And so.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (44:35.306)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (44:39.176)
Your work is fantastic. Is there something that you want to end this episode with to lead our listeners into some more insight on what this entire thing is about? What's your little piece of advice?
Dr. Laura Gallaher (44:55.958)
So I would summarize it with a quote from Robert Holden, which says, there is no amount of self-improvement that will ever make up for a lack of self-acceptance.
Danielle Sprouls (45:10.241)
okay, that's a good one. All right.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (45:11.552)
And so, right? It was very sobering to me when I heard that. And if your listeners are curious for themselves, we actually do have a free self-assessment, a free quiz, if they want to take that and check it out, to see kind of where do you fall today between that self-acceptance and self-judgment and then self-improvement.
Danielle Sprouls (45:31.392)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (45:35.854)
trusting that you can actually be high on both. But where are you today? If you want to learn more about that, then you can just go to selfacceptancequiz.com. Take that and we'll give you a report and give you some ideas about how you can shift your life in ways that are really meaningful.
Danielle Sprouls (45:44.064)
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (45:51.338)
That's fantastic. I will have all those links in the show notes. So anybody listening, make sure you check out the show notes. And thank you again, Dr. Laura, for coming on and just for coming into my world. You sometimes these things just happen randomly. And then I get so excited that the universe has just gifted me another WTF woman that flourishes because that's what you are. All right. Thanks so much for coming on, Dr. Laura.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (46:05.592)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Laura Gallaher (46:12.152)
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Danielle.