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Overdue Advice is the podcast about cash flow strategies to grow your business. Each episode covers an aspect of credit management and accounts receivable. "Legal Collections (and How to Avoid Going to Court)," "Debt Doesn't Die: Estate Collections," and "How Professional Collectors Recover More," are just a few areas covered with rare industry insights. There's no show like it!
Host Bryn Griffiths talks with guests including published authors, veteran collectors, accounts receivable trainers—and Brian Summerfelt, the CEO of MetCredit, North America's leader in ethical business debt collection, to examine all sides of debt recovery. Most importantly, you'll learn how to improve your business' cash flow—and put an end to bad debt forever.
Bryn Griffiths:
My name is Bryn Griffiths. The world of credit and credit collection is always changing, mostly because the world is always on the move too. Today we focus on the great work done by the Credit Institute of Canada. And joining us is the General manager of the Institute, Nawshad Khadaroo. Hey, so we had you on a few years ago on this podcast and we were talking about coming out of the pandemic. Now all of a sudden, we're going into a new economic wonderland, the way things are rolling out these days. But tell me, how much has changed since 2020?
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Well, quite a bit. First of all, thank you, Bryn. And thank you, MedCredit, for inviting me back on this podcast. I'm very delighted to contribute to it and add some insights from our perspective at the Institute, some insights from the over 25 years in the credit arena that I've spent almost my entire career in this domain. So since 2020, as we know, we all went into lockdown in March 2020 with COVID 19. But for the Institute, you know, this was not a major disruption because even before then we had already started using virtual technologies to deliver our courses, to do meetings. And so it came, it did push us a little bit more towards, you know, 100% online, if you will. So in our operations at the Institute, nothing changed other than we started having more online virtual meetings with our board of directors, with our students.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
And it was, you know, we were prepared for it.
Bryn Griffiths:
Early summer of 2025, at the symposium in Edmonton, we chatted briefly about the fact that it's amazing how we've come out of 2020, which was a real tough time, a slowdown, but it was also an opportunity for people to reflect on how they approach things. Have you found that that still continues the reflection to this date?
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Absolutely. You have to move with what's happening out there in the marketplace. It's a displacement or maybe a reset of how we do things now in the credit industry. There is quite a bit of disruptions in terms of technologies. Automation, artificial intelligence.
Bryn Griffiths:
Oh yeah.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
So our members, members have been asking for more, you know, content that we have in our courses to be more oriented towards, you know, the, the new technologies that we're seeing using tools like Chat GPT, Gro, Perplexity and, and other tools in the same, in the same industry. And, and we keep telling our members it's something that they have to work with, not to fight against, try to incorporate using those tools into their workflows on a daily basis. And if they are able to do that, the road ahead will be a lot smoother for them.
Bryn Griffiths:
Is it a little tougher? And AI came up a lot at the symposium, and people are curious about it, but I also sense as it is out there in the real world, there's a real nervousness about that type of thing. But when we're talking about credit and that type of. That type of thing that we're talking about here on this podcast, is it important that people look and make sure that they've covered all of their bases before just jumping into the pool?
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Absolutely, yeah. And I helps with. With that kind of repetitive task. And the credit professionals can then focus on what's more important. The relationship. Buildings that will not go away. AI or not, that will always be there. The human touch.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Right. Human judgment will always be there. But AI members do realize, accredited professionals in general, based on conversations I've had with many of them, AI is here to augment what they do and help them achieve better and bigger things in the career as credit professionals.
Bryn Griffiths:
So what have been some of the good things and what have been some of the bad things over the last five years? You. You've been around, as you said, for over 25 years doing this. So how do you see the lay of the land here from 2020 to all the way to 2025 as we move into 2026?
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, at the Institute, we are always at the forefront of what our members need to know. So since 2020, we've made some changes to our programs, to our courses, to the content, making them more up to date, relevant to deal with the complexities of credit in this modern day and age. We've introduced, you know, not long ago, in 2023, a new certification, an executive level in our certification program. So now we have two certifications that we offer at the Institute, Certified Credit Professional and then Executive Certified Credit Professionals. So our members is always the focus of what we do, right? They are at the core of what we do. It's. We always have their betterment, their progress in credit, in their careers in mind.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
When we look at how we do things, new courses that we introduce and speakers that we bring at our conference, our symposia, it's always with the members in focus for their. To give them the tools that they need to Perform at the highest level now.
Bryn Griffiths:
Well, let's talk about that too, because one of the things I wanted to chat about on this podcast is the importance of skilled and accredited credit professionals in every business. It's essential. We both know that. But the importance of good communication and interactions has got to be one of the huge factors and, and the ability to take the skill set and to grow it.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So we, we've always emphasized that communications, the human touch. Right. That will not go away. Although we, we all already starting to have some conversations with chat bots and all that. But in the end, at the end of the day, at the other end of the line, it's, it's, it's a human being that you're dealing with. Credit managers, like collection agencies, credit agencies, they deal with real people. So communications, developing good skills in the area of communications, how to build rapport with your customers, is of utmost importance in all of our courses and what we try to teach to our members, credit professionals in the industry.
Bryn Griffiths:
The personal touch. I was having a problem with my mobile device over the past weekend and so I was online with that provider and I found that I was actually quite comfortable actually doing a chat with probably a computer, that type of thing. But I'm not sure that that's ever going to work completely for the credit industry because I love talking when it comes to money and my money and making it work for everybody. I still think that personal touch is so big. Do you ever see it completely going away from that or is there always going to be that personal touch?
Nawshad Khadaroo:
No, it's always going to be there. It's true that, you know, newer generations of credit customers, Gen Z, millennials, they are more comfortable with technology, doing things on their mobile phone or small screen. Right. At the end of the day, the human touch rapport is always going to be.
Bryn Griffiths:
And there I, I don't know if this is an easy question to answer, but I'm going to throw it out there. So what are the challenges as we move forward for credit professionals, do you think?
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Yeah, I think there needs to be a mind shift. Right, okay. Understanding what's happening with technologies and AI and work with it. Adopt those tools that are available out there to, you know, to automate repetitive tasks and then freeing up your time to build rapport the. With a relationship with your customers. At the end of the day, you know, you know, like I said, if you have a good rapport with your clients, if you understand their business, if you Understand what they're going through. It will, you know, and sometimes, you know, act as a consultant, as an advisor to them.
Bryn Griffiths:
Right.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
It's gonna pay off in the long run. You know. At the end of the day.
Bryn Griffiths:
Are you blown away by how much things can change from month to month, let alone year to year these days? It's crazy.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it can be a challenge to keep up with these, but I think, you know, based on where you are in your career progression, you always have to be cognizant of those changes and try to adapt and adopt as, as much as you can. I personally, you know, I, I try to read as much as I can on, on AI, on, you know, whatever is coming out there. Right. So I have some sources that I go to Flipboard, you know, daily newspapers online and try to, to read as much as possible on the, the trends that are happening in our marketplace.
Bryn Griffiths:
It was great for me to be at your symposium in Edmonton in June 25, but there's another big one coming up in Jasper next June and I'm going to be at that one as well. But it's fun watching me watching you talk to all of the people there because I'm guessing you learn new things from everybody you talk to at these events.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Yeah, it's an evolving landscape. Right. And that's one of the, the value we bring with our conference at the big conference every two years. Next year I said June 9th through the 12th, it will be in Jasper park at the Jasper park lod. And bringing the whole credit community across Canada, even from abroad across border to bringing people together on a platform where they can exchange ideas and best practices, talked about trends, about challenges and everyone is a winner at the end of the day when you get the benefit of networking with others in the same industry.
Bryn Griffiths:
Well, I was fascinated by how much the discussions carried over from the sessions into the hallway because there's nothing better than that one to one touch with people, is there?
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. This, the relationship, the new friends that we make at these events, the symposium, the conference can last a lifetime. I am telling you it's because credit professionals tend to stay in the industry, the ones that I know at least for a long time and the relationship you built with them is, is, is valuable. Yeah.
Bryn Griffiths:
Let's talk about the, the Credit Institute of Canada, that type of thing been around for a while as you've mentioned, you've been around for a while as well. But tell everybody exactly what the, what the Institute does in case somebody's just picking up this podcast for the first time today.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Yes. Well, the Credit Institute of Canada was created by the government of Canada back in 1928. Wow. We are almost a century old and now. Actually we'll be celebrating our centennial anniversary in 2028 at our conference in Toronto. So the Institute, like I said, was started by a group of credit professionals back in 1928, and our core mandate is to represent the credit industry in Canada, to be the voice of credit professionals working to represent them, to raise their Prof. With, in the business community. And I can tell you, for having spent my entire career here, almost 35 years in credit, the Institute has done tremendous leaps in terms of representing the credit industry in Canada. It, the core mandate, like I said, is to represent the, the Institute, the profession, and to advocate for our members and the credit industry as a whole.
Bryn Griffiths:
What's the one misconception about the Institute here? People afraid to contact you or are people afraid to go online? That kind of thing. What's the one message you'd like to send out to everybody?
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Well, I'd like to, to encourage everyone to explore what a credit career can, how rewarding it can be. And I know that you know firsthand because I worked in credit for a number of years before I joined the Institute. I'm still in credit, but in a different role. I'd say it's, it's very rewarding. There are members who've been with us over 50 years, are still working, still finding, you know, satisfaction working in the credit industry. But please reach out and we can guide you if you are, you know, on the fence whether you should jump into a career and credit or, and where to start at the Institute, we're here to, to help you, you know, see the OR charter a course for you from, you know, the first time you join the Institute, all the way to a senior level because now we have the program, so we have, we've had the programs for a long time to accompany you in the journey, in your journey for a successful career in credit there.
Bryn Griffiths:
There were a lot of things that stood out for me at the symposium this past summer. But one of the big ones for me was the age group is so immense. Like, you've got people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and in some case, 70s. And I gotta think if you're working in this industry in your 70s, there's one common thing thread here and that is you absolutely love it.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. The age spectrum is an amazing thing at the Institute. So the younger up and coming career professionals can benefit from those who have been in the industry for a long time. And at the Institute that we facilitate that mentorship, that coaching between younger and older or more experienced senior credit professionals. And we do that through a number of ways, live one on one or group coaching sessions. So we recently introduced a program called CIC Connect where we have mentors, you know, presenting and helping, guiding younger professionals in the industry.
Bryn Griffiths:
Well, when you take a look at where we've come from in 2020 to where we are right now, it's not just in the credit industry, but in every industry. I'm amazed and blown away by one, how durable everybody is. Not every company makes it. We totally get that. However, there's the learning process that people have gone through over the last five years that to me is absolutely mind numbing. I've got to think that you've been viewing it exactly the same way.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Absolutely, yes. So, you know, credit agencies, credit managers, collection agencies are all vital parts of a complex credit system. Right. We don't, no single player operates in isolation. So there we are all interconnected players in the network that includes businesses, lenders, suppliers, regulators and ultimately the end customer. So there's a decision we make the data point and communication flows through this ecosystem and affects the overall health. So for those credit managers out there, you know, and the collection agency, the credit agencies out there, we appreciate your being part of the, of the, of the network of the community, the CIC Community, Credit Institute of Canada's community. We all bring, you know, value to the, to the supply chains, to the, to the, to the system.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Right. So it's important the work that we do. Yeah.
Bryn Griffiths:
And one last one before we wrap things up here when we're talking about credit agencies, but we also can't forget that many companies have got credit managers, they've got the personnel that they have to deal with inside an organization of a company trying to bring the two parties together. So they're all speaking the same language. I guess that's a big challenge as well, is it not?
Nawshad Khadaroo:
Yes, it is. And the Institute tried to cement that relationship. So we bring opportunities to everybody, whether it's a collection agency or credit agency or small business with an accountant running the credit department at the Credit Institute. This is where you can congregate together and make that build up work for, and to make the system more efficient.
Bryn Griffiths:
Do you have another 35 years in you?
Nawshad Khadaroo:
I'm not sure, but at least for now, I'm still going strong and I still love what I'm doing at the institute, helping others achieve their potential through education and providing other resources for their career advancement.
Bryn Griffiths:
Well, thanks for joining us today, and we'll see you in Jasper.
Nawshad Khadaroo:
All right. Thank you so much, Bryn. Thank you so much, MetCredit, for inviting me again to be part of this podcast. Appreciate it. See you all in Jasper.
Bryn Griffiths:
Hey, that's it for today's episode of Overdue Advice. We're easy to find online. MetCredit is on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and X. And you can also check out Brian Summerfelt's blog. It's easy to find, too. It's blog.metcredit.com. The website also includes numerous helpful tools and calculators to assess your business debt risk. And we'd also love to hear from you. So subscribe like or leave us a review on this or any of our podcasts and make sure you share that podcast with your friends and business associates.
You could drop us a line at overdueadvice@metcredit.com. Overdue Advice, the podcast about cash flow strategies to grow your business. I'm Bryn Griffiths.