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Where food opens the door to conversations about craft, culture & tradition.
TWK EP 8 Jesse Griffiths
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Jesse is a Texas-based chef and the force behind Ddue, a Michelin starred restaurant that champions wild game, whole animals and local food. He also teaches people how to hunt, fish, butcher, and cook, and has written a few books along the way, including a field, the Turkey book, and the hog book. I'm sure a lot of people will recognize him from his work with the Weater crew.
Welcome to the podcast, Jesse.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker: Yeah, thank, thank you very much. It's, uh, you know, I, I first, I think I first learned about you just through social media, um, being a Canadian and seeing your work at your restaurant, and then on me Eater and then, uh, Travis Podcasted with you and, um, picked up a couple of your books for me.
So I like, man, they, they're just fantastic. Um. One of the things I've noticed is how you focus on the storytelling of [00:01:00] food. Um, the, and it's, it's not something that's really, really common with chefs, but you, you really are a master at it. The, the storytelling of food and sharing hunting and, and how important that is of the provenance of the food and, and where it comes from.
And, um, do you wanna, do you wanna chat on that? Why, why that's a, a, a goal for you? If I'm not putting words in your mouth, but, I mean, just reading your work, it's like you're a storyteller first and foremost, and you seem to do that through food, which is, it's amazing to watch.
Speaker 2: Oh, well, thank you. Uh, definitely.
I, I mean, I think that the impetus for it was that I, I grew up. Reading, uh, outdoor magazines, any book about hunting or fishing. I love to read it. Um, and especially when it came to stories also, you know, at that, at that time, you know, getting up early on a Saturday, a Sunday morning and watching fishing shows, you know, it was Roland Martin or, you know, like these, you know, ba usually [00:02:00] bass fishermen or maybe some kinda local outdoor show.
And I, I loved the story. I, I love especially like a shorter story where it's not like an entire book written around this, this event, but rather, you know, it's just like this. We went to the Northwoods of, of Canada to, to catch walleye out of a, a lake. We had to fly in on a bush pine, and then we ate a shore lunch.
And I mean, as, as a kid, I was super captivated. By that, um, by the stories. And I, I always wanted to include them. I, I read tons and tons of books about him. I have a favorite author named John Gear Rock. Uh, he passed a couple years ago and just like, uh, just since I was, I think 13 years old, just, uh, diligently read everything that he ever put out, uh, and really, really, really loved it.
And so I always wanted to incorporate that, um, into the books, especially being short, kind of to the point. So there's a lot of these stories are like two pages [00:03:00] long, you know, when you look at 'em, maybe three or four, but they, they kind of get to the point quick. It's not the super long read, and then we'll go back into recipes, things like that.
But, uh, you're, you're absolutely right. You know, it's just like that story, um, being able to tell that story and having that, that narrative around a meal, uh, is, is for me, probably the. Like, uh, rewarding part of it. And, and it can come from anything like, I'm, I'm a, an avid gardener. Uh, so like, I, I also, you know, we ate some spinach last night, uh, you know, that, that, that I grew.
And so it's, it's, you know, like, Hey, everybody, it's just in case you didn't notice the spinach, you know, was, was planted, you know, a long time ago in August, actually. And so it took a long time, you know, and it, it had its own little history and it's obviously not as exciting as, you know, stalking a river bottom for a big feral hog or something like that.
But, um, I, I think it all has a story and we all seek that [00:04:00] connectivity. Or if we don't seek it, then we probably haven't experienced it. I think that a lot of people, you know, when they do have that connectivity. Uh, with food, then it alters their, their perception of, of food in general, maybe resources in general.
And having a story, you know, telling that story I think is a really, really important facet of that, of that, um, kind of that, that learning process.
Speaker: Yeah. Do you think as a chef, um, there's, there's an extra responsibility to, to share that story with people? I mean, and as well, you could roll in hunters and, and anglers as well to, to share with other people the story of the food to try to gain a little bit of common ground.
Speaker 2: Definitely. I, I, I feel like I, I enjoy education. I enjoy sharing, uh, what, what I'm learning, what I've learned, uh, with, with people. I mean, uh, every single bit of it, you know, I think I want to, I want anything that I know, I want to put it out there. [00:05:00] And I think that, um. You, you communicate with people better if, if you're entertaining them as well or giving them a good reason to stick along for the story.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 2: Um, it's not a trick, it's just, it's, it's more enjoyable. I think I, you know, to include that story. Uh, so it's not just like, you know, we we're just starting with a chunk of venison and it's like, well, it was a very cold morning.
Uh, you know, and we didn't think we were gonna see, you know, you know, there's always, you know, the, the, the drama of it, you know, and, uh, so, you know, I think it, it aids in the communication. Um, and, and yeah, I mean, more, more so we, we do want to be entertained.
Speaker: I think, you know, hunting hunting's not an easy, it's not an easy venture, and it's nice to be able to.
To share that with other people too. And like, like this, this piece of meat was not easy to get. Remember, it was like, I mean, in Canada it was like everything was frozen. You know, we were on a [00:06:00] hunting trip and, and I, we were in our trailer and the water tank froze solid. And so we were, it's like we were sleeping on a big cube of ice.
And you, you can go and you can share all these small details of the hunt and it, it, I find it's fantastic. 'cause you know, the meat that you're eating has so much more value to you than something that you're buying from a store. And to be able to share that, that excitement and all that extra value that's built into that with other people is like, there's nothing better than that.
It's, you know, I, I know I'm like, like you with your spinach, I constantly bombard my family with, just so you guys know, all the food on this plate came from our backyard or the meat that we harvested or whatever it is just on a constant basis. And. Because I think especially if you have kids being able to ingrain that in their brains that food, food has value beyond just fuel for our bodies.
And, uh, I think it makes eating ethically that much easier and, and making smart decisions with [00:07:00] food and with the environment and conservation, all these other things. It makes all those things so much easier down the road once you built that value system in with people when they're consuming food.
Speaker 2: I was gonna make one more point about the memories of that, and my friend Ben O'Brien, he pointed this out.
We were actually on a, on a mountain in Oregon when he pointed this out to me, he was like, and you'll notice this. And it's, it's, it's almost universal. It's like after, if you're with a, with a, or one or more people and you're hunting or fishing and you've just captured the animal, you've caught the fish or you've, or you've just walked up and you put the Turkey or the deer or the pig in hand, the, the.
The instinct immediately is to tell the story. And the way that Ben explained it was like, this is, this isn't just, you know, us wanting to, to brag about it or anything. This is a, a human, uh, imperative. And that while the, uh, the lessons [00:08:00] learned from the hunt are still incredibly fresh and indelible, we need, we feel this very strong need to share that, uh, information so that we can learn how to do it better.
And so this is, you know, this a thousand generations old instinct to be like, Hey, listen, this is what happened. You know, we we're re retailing it, like, oh, and, you know, and then the Turkey popped outta nowhere, and then I did, you know, but, but what you're saying is like, listen, turkeys can pop outta nowhere beyond the next time you're out.
You know, you're, you're trying to ingrain that, uh, that, that, that skill in there while it's still fresh. And I think that that. I mean, it, it dissipates of course after the hunt, after the adrenaline comes down. But I think that the, the storytelling aspect is still, still has a, a more innate, uh, quality in us.
Like when we, when we read, uh, hunting and fishing stories, maybe even somebody that doesn't hunt, hunt or fish might read something like that and feel a little [00:09:00] stirring in them because of that. Um, you know, that millennia old, uh, uh, innate instinct that we have still lodged in our brains.
Speaker: It's, uh, you know, trickle down from coloring on walls of caves and, you know, this is, this is how we brought down this, MAs it on when, and like all these drawings and stuff is now it's, you know, it's sharing in the way we do.
All these stories and it's, it's, it's gotta be bred into us instinctually to, to do it like you see it. I mean, you, you don't have to be a hunter to read these stories and like you said, you feel this something inside you. I think for a lot of people, um, and I, I've, I've always felt with people that don't hunt or, or against hunting that bridge to, I'm not saying you have to convert everybody, and not that we need to in any way, shape or form, but at least make them, uh, open their eyes to it being something that's not negative is through food.[00:10:00]
Everybody has to eat. And, and sharing these conversations and getting that stirring in those people's bellies on it, that it's, you know, it's natural and it's something that, you know, it might not be for them, but is, is always through food. And, uh, I find it, I, I find it in, especially in the beginning of your book, a field, um.
I, I think, I think you've triggered a lot of people to, I hope anyway, but I, I feel strongly that you've probably triggered a lot of people to open their eyes to the aspect of hunting not being a terrible thing or going out and doing it themselves. And it's, it's very, very cool to see. Um, I wonder, I, I heard recently that you've stepped back from grinding behind the line at, uh, at the restaurant.
Is that, uh, is that something that you, are you looking back and, and missing it, or is it sort of a natural progression you're focusing more on teaching and, and all the other work you're [00:11:00] working on now?
Speaker 2: Oh, it's very much a natural progression. If not, um, it just, your, your body one day is just like, you've done this for a while.
And I mean, I definitely know people that, that can do it into their sixties. Yeah. Um, I, you know, we, we just are, are lucky enough to have a situation at the restaurant where. We have a really talented chef who, uh, runs the day to day, and I, I'm able to step back and do what it i, what I think I'm just better at.
Um, you know, it's like I don't need to be there on the line, um, when I could be, you know, talking with you, you know, or o other things like that. The, and the educational aspect of it, because the, the restaurant in is multifaceted. You know, we're not just a restaurant. We also delve into conservation and game, and what's happening in the bay systems of Texas is important to the restaurant.
And so that requires a [00:12:00] different. Person like me who to kind of like, uh, straddle those worlds, you know? It's like, not only do we do we care about, you know, is our order gonna arrive on time at the restaurant today, but we're like, well, you know, 10 years from now is the bottom of this, you know, estuary gonna be amenable for oysters and therefore the other fish that we serve and you know, this and that.
And, um, it's a, it's a higher concentration and, and I'm, I'm so lucky that I'm able to kind of live in, in both of those worlds.
Speaker: Is there anything that you miss from it, from, from working line?
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, it's, it's, it's exciting and it can be very rewarding. It can be very difficult. Um, but over, not really, I'm a morning person.
I've always been a morning person, so I, um, my, I struggled throughout the career with, is it, even if, you know, um, you're, you're getting home at one and then you're going. At, at best you go into bed at two. I'm still up at six. You know,
Speaker: you're [00:13:00] wired
Speaker 2: a bit of a curse, you know? Yeah. Just because I like to get up in the mornings and so, yeah.
No, I, I think, but I did it, you know, and I, I did it and, you know, I, I definitely paid my dues. I've worked in a lot of restaurants other than my own, um, you know, I've worked two jobs at a time. I've worked three jobs at a time. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, coming up, I, I didn't go to culinary school or college. I just started working when I was about 15 and just went all the way through.
So like any like. We, we tend to have a lot of guilt in this industry about not working hard enough. And I suffer from that sometimes, but then I look back and I'm like, listen, I put in my hours. Yes, I definitely did. Uh, you know, I've, I've, you know, I, I don't know how many hours, but definitely, uh, you know, I've, I've, I've worked quite a bit, uh, on the line and on, you know, I worked every station and, and now I'm like, I'll step back and kind of let other people do that, offer my advice, uh, where it's needed, and then kind of focus on bigger picture educational things.[00:14:00]
Speaker: I, it's, I find it so funny, um, you know, when you think about successful, successful chefs, so often the public looks and they're like, yeah, look at 'em. You know, grinding behind the line, working as expeditor, getting food out, shaking hands, like visiting people, and like, it's, it's so rare that you see a chef that.
Is, I mean, most great chefs aren't good line cooks. Like they're kind of terrible 'cause their mind's thinking on other things. And you know, you have to be a good business person. You have to like be able to be a good leader. You have to, like, the food is totally separate from a lot of things about writing a great restaurant and becoming well known that way.
And, and like you talked about the guilt and there is so much guilt when you, if you're not like with the guys in the kitchen getting sweaty and scrubbing the flat top and doing all these things. And, um, it is, it is a challenge. I, I know when I, when I left the kitchen for years, people are like, oh, do you miss it?
I'm like. [00:15:00] No, I don't like, I, I, like you said, I miss the, I start and end of a day, you know, there's this completion. Once, once you leave that and get into other work, it's, it feels like it never ends. But there is a, a joy to working in a kitchen. You show up for your shift, you get your work done, you go home and it's, it's done.
Um, with, with what you're working on now, um, you're mostly focused on, on butchery classes with the, with the restaurant. And I also noticed you are doing, uh, something called the paternal project, which looks amazing. Uh, do you wanna talk, talk through that a little bit. What, what that's all about?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean, you know, along with kind of stepping away from the day-to-day roles, I mean, I, I definitely have to, you know, fill my time and, and, and produce still.
So, you know, we do, we do butchery classes. We have, we've ceased doing our, our, our. Start to [00:16:00] finish hunting classes. We used to do four or five day class. Um, we've, we've not, we're not doing that anymore after 14 seasons of doing that. Um, and the reasons for that are just like it. Again, that was just taking so much time and I was able to have reached six people per class.
And, and that got to be like, we could be doing more and it, and it would just take so much, you know, five or six day chunk at a time. Multiply that by, you know, I think the most we ever did in a year was 10. And so I was gone for two months. Um, you know, essentially guiding, cooking, organizing these things.
Um, and it just got to be a little unsustainable. Uh, but the day classes are, are a lot easier to do. And then, you know, kind of the natural segue from that would be, you know, hey, I need some sort of, um, you know, video alternative that that's still gonna be able to be accessible to people where I could still teach.
And that's where the Petal [00:17:00] project, uh, came from. And, you know, we, it took us. A couple years to figure out like exactly how is this just gonna go on YouTube or, or what. And I think we, we chose a subscription service for it. So it's, um, it's essentially like these very long form videos. Uh, there's some hunting, there's some field work in there, like how to position yourself in a dove field, how to, how to pluck, how to scan and gut.
Uh, you know, we've, we've covered so far, uh, doves, uh, hogs, turkeys and blue crabs, um, in depth. And it goes, it goes pretty deep, uh, into butchering as well. And then we just wrapped filming three more episodes of just feral hogs. And so. All in, you know, we're probably looking at close to 10 hours of video tutorials.
Uh, most of that being around feral hogs. It's all different size categories. If, [00:18:00] you know, the hog book has four size categories in there, so it'll soon have all four of those, uh, videos on there. Like a small, a small hog, a medium hog, a large bore, a large sow all broken down, start to finish with multiple recipes.
And then on the website, we have additional recipes on there too. So it's kind of a natural progression for me to, to get into that. 'cause now I can reach in, you know, indefinite number of people
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Instead of just a few at a time. And it's, it's a little, it's just easier on my schedule, you know, we can just do this when, when, when we want to.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think most importantly allowed me, you know, to have more time, you know, in hunting season and. Uh, frankly, my, my daughter likes to hunt and that's the person I just wanna hunt with now. So, just like,
Speaker: it's, it's, it's so funny you say that 'cause I've had people ask, oh, when are you gonna do this?
When are you gonna do this? And it's so flattering that people, like, I'm sure there's like an infinite amount of people that would pay untold sons of [00:19:00] sums of money to spend four or five days with you learning how to hunt and do all those things. But to be able to reach so many more people and, and at the same time be like, I'm doing this 'cause I love to hunt.
Like, being able to follow your passion and do what you wanna do is like, and, and to hunt with your kid is like, you are living the dream, really. Like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I
Speaker 2: acknowledge that, you know? Yeah. Every day I'm like, this is great, you know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: On my own schedule. And that's another thing that, you know, working the line is like, no, you have to be there from, from noon to 11, you gotta be there and you can't do anything else.
Like, you can't send emails. Like if you need to send a few texts or get on the phone, you're really not able to do that. And so, you know, like yesterday, I, I, I scheduled, uh, an event 11 months from now, you know, and it's just, and that's about how far out I am instead, like being, having to compress these days, you know, working the line.
It just doesn't, it doesn't even seem tenable anymore when I'm like, [00:20:00] so far out in my brain is, is kind of in another spot. So I, I, I love where we're at now, you know, as far as like the project, the books. I'm working on another book project. And, um, you know, I just think it's a, it's a great place, uh, to be and it keeps me as busy as I want to be.
Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, so new book, what's, what's the focus on that?
Speaker 2: I can't say yet.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: Um,
Speaker: okay. Well, I'll, I'll keep my eyes peeled for it.
Speaker 2: I would entertain guesses. I'm, I'm gonna poker face them. It's not hard to guess. I'll give you that as a hand. Okay. It's not gonna be hard to guess. Okay. Um, and the, you know, and once you guess it, you'll guess the title right away.
Um, but, uh, no, but it's, uh, we're, we're, I, I don't know how far along we are since we self-publish. We can, we're, we're, we can move at a kind of a lightning pace versus, uh, someone that's going through a traditional publisher. Uh, so, you know, we're, we're looking at, actually we start on Monday [00:21:00] shooting, um, in the, in the field.
Uh, so, uh, we'll, we'll start the, the, here's another hunt, the hunting part of it. Uh, we'll we'll start on my and b photographed.
Speaker: Very cool. Are you working with the same photographer?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is. Uh, he'll be, this will be book number four with, uh, Jody Horton, who is the photographer, and he also serves as the publisher.
So, uh, the two of us, uh, have the wild books, um, and St. John Press is his publishing house at press. He's only published our books, so, um, yeah, it's a, it's a great partnership. He is an amazing photographer. Uh, he has a studio as well that we're able to use, uh, to shoot all the recipes and the food and to, so it works very, uh, very efficiently.
Uh, and we, we can get stuff done, uh, quickly and, and it's, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker: It's nice too. I, I imagine you're probably not, uh, burden with editors telling you [00:22:00] deadlines and things. You have a little bit more creative control over, over what you're putting out there. If, if it's, you know, you're sitting higher on the, higher on the chain of command on, uh, producing your own books.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a field was through a publisher. I wouldn't say a bad process. But the self-published books, the Turkey book and the hog book, uh, were amazing. I mean, so much fun. Um, we assemble our own team. Uh, we have, uh, an editor and indexer named Samantha who's amazing. And we have a designer named Blair, who's also amazing, and, uh, and Jess who handles the, you know, warehouse and like logistical functions.
And then there's Jody, and that's really it. Like, that's kind of, I mean, there'll be a couple more people dropping in here and there. Uh, but that's the, the team. And once you, you know, when you work with people that you absolutely love working with, you almost make excuses to work with them again, which [00:23:00] is what, a
Speaker: hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just like, I, I mean, I just, I enjoy the process so much and working with such incredibly talented people that, um, might, let's do it again. You know, I'm all as long,
Speaker: it's nice when work is fun, right? Like, you're just like, follow your passion, do what you wanna do and get to a point where you're just, yeah, this, this is, this is, this is what I'm doing today.
I'm having fun. I'm going hunting. And you look back on where you were and there's, there's no need for, for guilt on, on leaving all the work you put in before and moving on to something bigger and better. And so what's, uh, what's on the horizon hunt wise? Like, I, I, I've never hunted in Texas. So are you guys like here in bc We're just winding down, really.
Uh, are you sort of ramping up for, for Hunts in Texas or how's it work?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I. My, my focus now, uh, I, let me, let me see how, how I should explain it. It's like I, I don't take a [00:24:00] lot of time and do extended trips during what most people would consider hunting season, fall and winter. The Texas seasons go very long.
Deer for instance, can run, if you're on a managed lands permit can from October to the end of February, so like five months out of, out of 12. So like a really long season.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Um, we're. You know, we're, we're blessed with a, a lot of game here, uh, hogs we can hunt year round. I, I spend all my tokens in the spring, uh, for turkeys.
It's the really, the only thing I travel much for, unless it's a, a fundraising event. Like we'll go to South Dakota and, and hunt pheasants with pheasants forever and just to, you know, as fundraising or, uh, something like that might pull me away. But I spend, like I said, all my, all my real travel and the, the most concentrated amount of time spent in the field will start in March and, and, uh, right around [00:25:00] May 31st.
Nice. Um, I love Turkey hunting. I love traveling for Turkey hunting. I, I like to, uh, you know, go visit friends or see a new part of the country, um, through the lens of a Turkey hunt. I think that's a, you know, 49 states, um, allow you to. Uh, travel and hunt turkeys there. And so I like to take advantage of that, you know, 'cause you can go anywhere from the swamps of Florida to Maine, uh, you know, Washington, North Dakota, I'm, I mean, I'm just not gonna name all 49 states, but I mean, Arizona, you can, you're
Speaker: not gonna give us your honey holes either.
Speaker 2: I'm not, I'm not particularly good at it, so it doesn't really matter. I just enjoy the process. So, um,
Speaker: what is it about Turkey hunting that, uh, that you enjoy so much?
Speaker 2: Um, I, well, first that you can travel, um, they inhabit, uh, pretty much just beautiful places, you know, or significant [00:26:00] places. I think, you know, south Texas might not make a postcard, but it is, it's got its own like very rough beauty to it.
Um. Oregon, Wisconsin, you know, name it, wherever you're at. Um, can be pretty, or the people could be cool, you know, or, or whatever. You know, I just, I, I enjoy travel quite a bit, and so I'd say that's one of the things that I love the most about it. I love eating them. Uh, very much so. It's probably my favorite game animal.
I love, uh, fried Turkey. My birthday falls in the middle of May, and I love to have fried Turkey, uh, and do Barry Cobbler for my birthday. Um, so I, I have to go shoot a Turkey for that. That's very least. Yeah. Um, I love the, uh, the game of it. Mm-hmm. I love how hard it can be, especially if you're like me and it's not very good at it.
Um, and so, you know, I, I think I 129 days last season [00:27:00] and I killed four birds, so, um, that's it. I
Speaker: don't know that, that's pretty good. Like,
Speaker 2: is it?
Speaker: I don't, I, I mean, uh. Uh, from, from my own perspective, I've, I've seen turkeys in BC here.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Only outside of when I'm Turkey hunting. Mm-hmm. Uh, I, I've, I've yet, yeah.
I have yet to kill a Turkey. Yeah. It's, uh, although on, on our side it, it conflicts with bear hunting season, which is, um. Is, is one of my favorite hunts. It's, you know, here it's finally a little bit warm. You can sit out in a t-shirt and it's, it's good that way. But, uh, yeah, turkeys have alluded me. That's for, that's for sure.
So your, your, your numbers sound pretty darn good to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Texas is, it can, sometimes it can be a bit of a layup here too. A lot of, oh
Speaker: yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, I have, I have good access to, to, to land a lot of times, places that nobody else is hunting turkeys at, and so they tend to be a little more amenable.
Uh, to it, [00:28:00] but still not, not always easy, but
Speaker: So are you guys, are you guys managing them? Like, do you, like Travis was hunting, well, he was supposed to be hunting hogs in Texas, and he didn't see a single hog, and all they saw were deer. I know. He was like, he was a little shocked. He, uh, for whatever reason, they just saw like deer after deer.
Um, but they were, there were feeders and it was all managed. Um, which is something you don't see around here. Um, are you doing the same thing for turkeys or are they just kind of running around eating everything?
Speaker 2: Uh, it really depends on where I'm hunting. Um, you know, I don't own any lands. I'm, I'm always, you know, a guest of, of someone who is managing their land however they see fit.
So, in the feeder blind situation in Texas is, uh, almost omnipresent. Like, it's, it's very, very common and to the point where people just, they. I think that they don't feel like they're doing the right thing unless they are doing that, because then your neighbors are out competing you [00:29:00] by feeding. And so it kind of generates this, it's like a, it's like an arms race, you know?
Like if your neighbor is, is, is feeding, you know, uh, it has four feeders out and is throwing corn three times a day.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Um, then eventually you're gonna be like, well, why don't I have anything over here? And I'm like, 'cause they're snacking over there constantly. Um, uh, but in the context of hogs though, I mean, he probably didn't see any maybe 'cause of pressure.
Weather. Hogs are, hogs are the outlier. They'll, they kind of do whatever they want, you know, you can see 'em routinely at the same time every day for months. And then one day, poof, they're just gone. Um, they, they move on. They're like, uh, I mean, they're little anarchists. Um. I wanted to put this illustration, I had this idea for an illustration in the hog book called, uh, pig Ball, and it would be like a pinball machine, and all these different influences or, uh, factors would cause the ball [00:30:00] to just like, like go in different wreck and, you know, like, like agriculture, bing, you know, or like a flood bing or like, of hunting pressure.
And it's like, and it's just like, and the, the, it was a difficult illustration act. I conceived it for the designer. She's like, I don't know if I can do that. But, um, you know, the idea is, is that the pigs are that ball. And once they hit one of those things, they just get flung in another direction. Not like a deer, which is just be like, we're gonna wait it out here.
Um, you know, and they, they have kind of a home range and pigs are just, you know, they, they go with the flow. Does
Speaker: it make them more enjoyable to hunt that way? Like is it, is it like a constant quest to like attach all those red strings on the wall to understand what pigs are doing and why they're, why they're doing it?
Or is it just like Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a bit of a
Speaker: crap shoot
Speaker 2: once you, especially if you, if remove like feeders and blinds from the situation
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And go and hunt pigs like that. Once you start to figure 'em out in that context, it's, I mean it's just like anything else, you know, it's like, it's very [00:31:00] rewarding.
They have their senses, uh, that, you know, like if you're 500 yards upwind of a hog, you're never gonna know it's there. It's gonna be out, like it's gone. Mm-hmm. If you're five yards downwind of a hog, you got a good shot at it. Like this thing is crazy how close you get to them. Oh yeah. Um. I mean, real close.
Speaker: You, you said something in, I, I think it was in the hog book where you're talking about, uh, sneaking up on some hogs and they're eating, uh, acorns and how it must have been like chewing was so loud in their, in their head that they couldn't even hear you walking around. Got super close.
Speaker 2: Uh, we, the last pig that I killed was a, was a big sow.
And she, we heard them, there was three of 'em. We heard them eating pecans and grunting happily. Like, and I like, how do you know they're happy? And I'm like, if you heard this, you would a hundred percent be like, those things are happy right now. They were like, kind of, I don't, I don't want to really wanna make the vocalization, but
Speaker: Oh, come on.
I was like
Speaker 2: so happy. I was. I didn't [00:32:00] say that. Yeah, but you know, when I was excitedly telling the story right after,
Speaker: of course.
Speaker 2: Uh, uh, but we heard them crunching pecans.
Speaker: That's
Speaker 2: awesome. Uh, and the reason that they could not hear us, it was a very dry day. Uh, the reason they did not hear us is because of the crunching within their own skulls.
They. Uh, that's amazing. Very close. It was dark, uh, just right at dark and so it was very hard to see them, but we heard them pause, looked over, saw these three dark shapes, identified them as hogs, and we were able to do it. We were 30 yards downwind of them. Had it been the other way, we would've never even known their presence 'cause they would've been out.
But, you know, it, it's like anything else, they're, they're very difficult in some ways, but then they have, uh, uh, I was kind of liking them to like, uh, centers. They, they have, they just, they, they, they, they can't control themselves of like, around a couple things. Like bores obviously are, uh, will commit themselves to the [00:33:00] pursuit of sows, which will definitely let their guard down on.
I've seen extreme like examples of that. And then of course, the pigs eating, they love to eat. And, um, it's, it's just like, um. You know, it's just like one of their, their faults. Uh, and you have to take advantage of those, you know, and then their sense is, of course, their sight's. Okay, hearing's fine, smell is out of this world.
They can, they can just smell you. But, so you put all those factors together, you know, get a hungry pig, uh, upwind of you and, and you're, you've got a good shot at it, but then you gotta buy them, you know? Yeah. So,
Speaker: sorry, you have to call them.
Speaker 2: No, I've heard people doing that. Um, you, you certainly can, there's some, uh, vocalizations that they'll respond to, but I don't know if it's with enough consistency to make it work, but,
Speaker: okay.
Speaker 2: I am, I'm to the point where I can, if [00:34:00] I hear pigs, I know. Oh, this is gonna sound a little pretentious, but I, I understand. I not understand. I know some of their vocalizations.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, well, the, the other day I was out with a friend and, and I, we heard the, we heard them grunting. Mm-hmm. And I knew that it was, they, they were aware of our presence, but as we were downwind, they had not yet, they haven't confirmed it.
Yeah. And that's something I'll always say is like, they, they like don't trust their own senses until they confirm via smell. Okay. A lot of times they'll look at you, you know, you'd be 50 yards away and they're just like, what is that? Or just like, um, and they might, they might run, but they're gonna trot off if they smell you, they run with like as bad.
It's a different thing. And I, I recognize this. They're making these grunts. That that indicated like, oh, there's, I mean, I was like, there's pigs right there in, [00:35:00] in this, in this brush. And they know we're here. They don't know exactly where we are, and they're not exactly spooked yet, but they're kind of just like, Hey, I think something's going on.
And then there's this more guttural, uh, almost like a huff that, that they'll make. And that is like everybody out now.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you can, when after a while you can kind of hear those, the difference between those two and it's, you know, it's just something you get, uh, through experience
Speaker: when you're in hunting situations when you're so close to the animal that you can hear them and smell them, and you have that interaction and you're like, oh shit, are they gonna make me, or, or like you said, when they, like, we've had it with moose where.
You'll call them and they call back and that you can hear them getting closer and you can hear them like walking around you and, and trying to figure out what's going on. And you're like, you're just sitting trying to be quiet and, and see how close I can get. See if you can see 'em. But, uh, it's like, it's the best of hunting for [00:36:00] me is like being able to have that interaction with the animal and try to figure out what all those noises mean and see how close you can get.
And it's, I think it just, like, it makes you love the animals that much more. Mm-hmm. Right. To have that, to have that interaction with them is just, it's so cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. You know, it just, and you can kind of dial it back to the, the style of hunting that you want. Mm-hmm. You could put yourself in the position where you'll have to use all of those senses.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like if you, especially like smelling them. I think there's something real special about that and also makes you look like a total badass when you're like. That's pigs.
Speaker: Well to, I love it. It's amazing.
I
Speaker 2: did that with a friend of mine, same guy that I was with, and one time I was out, we were out and I was like, I smell a pig.
And he's just like, what? And five seconds later, a boar is like 15 yards away, beded down, he stands up and kind of grunts at us and then drops off. And he was like, [00:37:00] it was the next day, which was really funny. He sends me a text and it, I'll never forget this, it just says, that was pretty cool how you smelled, like, yeah, it was kind of cool actually.
Speaker: Yeah. I, it's like, it's, it's funny too, I've realized, um. In the last couple years that I can do certain things. So my sense of smell gets better. Like I'll, I'll adjust my diet. I'll, uh, I find if I, um, like if I skip breakfast, my sense of smell gets better. I, it, it's, it's crazy all like, cut out certain foods, like I cut out dairy and, and uh, wheat, my sense of smell gets better.
I think it messes with my sinuses. I'm, I might probably mildly allergic or something like that, but when, if I cut those things out, my sense of smell gets incredible.
Speaker 2: Oh,
Speaker: it's, yeah. I honestly, I was, I was down in Vegas last week for shot show and uh, I was around a lot of people during this week and I [00:38:00] was just like, I, I was adjust, I was adjusting my diet in in that case and I'm like, people stink.
Like it was, it was to the point where it was bothering me smelling other humans. 'cause they. Travis always talks about how people smell like, like pigs. They have like this sweet smell to them. And, um, anyway, it's, if I, for me, it works like I'll, I do adjust my diet and I, my sense of smell goes through the roof.
Speaker 2: That's fascinating.
Speaker: Yeah. I, I mean, I don't know the scientific side of it, but for me it works anyway.
Speaker 2: No, it sounds entirely plausible. I love
Speaker: that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I love it. I love it when you walk through the woods and you, you can smell because animals stink. They, they really do, like, they have a very strong smell,
Speaker 2: especially pigs.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, I've never hunted pigs. I
Speaker 2: like, yeah. I got this incredible sense of smell. And people are like, you smell pigs, dude. Literally, I mean, they're kind of metaphorically the stinkiest animal out
Speaker: there. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Do you, um, yeah. Part of me sort of like self, I shouldn't [00:39:00] wish it, but like, we don't really have wild hog hunting in bc.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: I shouldn't, I shouldn't wish it on, on BC to have it, but we have little pockets apparently they're migrating up, but,
Speaker 2: yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I don't know. State
Speaker 2: biologists are, are, are, are just like, stop with the wishing we need.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: We don't even need that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There, I mean, I get asked that, you know, there's the whole like the magic button question.
Like, if I could push it would. I make all the pigs disappear. 'cause we have 50% of the population in the
Speaker: cotton
Speaker 2: Wow. In Texas. And you know, I'm like, I, you don't want to hear my answer, you know, you know, and I'm not a farmer, you know, I'm not a, I don't, I'm not growing corn for a living. And so my, my. My answer's gonna be a little bit different.
You know, I'm gonna be like, no, I kind of enjoy hunting them quite a bit. And also I need to sell a few more thousand copies of this book called The Hall Book. Um, it's all magically disappeared. Sales will go out extensively. Uh, so [00:40:00] yeah, I, you know, but yeah, be careful what you wish for. I, I, I'm sometimes shocked that they haven't gone to certain areas of the, of, of the country and Canada as well.
Um, but it feels like that they, they could, if they wanted.
Speaker: I mean, they're, they're pretty cold hardy too, right? Like they're not just hanging out. T is hot. They could totally survive in cold air climates.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look at Russian boars. Yeah. Not from the warm part of Russia, you know. Yeah, they're, they're built for it.
Um, yeah, I really haven't, I, I don't know why, but I just know there's gonna be this crazy story, uh, you know, on meat eater Outdoor life or something. It's just gonna be like, elk hunter shoots big, and I'll be like,
Speaker: yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: In, in Montana, you know, it's, it's gonna happen.
Speaker: Yeah, it was funny. Uh, we were recently in Sweden and it was a very different experience.
It's, um, it was a organized hunt, uh, driven hunt, which again, for us using dogs is totally not, not a common thing, but [00:41:00] they're running through all the animals. Okay. We're get do red Stag and we're shooting fellow deer and we're shooting hogs. And it was, it was funny because they're like, okay, it's hogs, but you.
Don't shoot the males, uh, or sorry, sorry. Shoot. The males at this size, don't shoot the females unless they're between 30 and 40 kilograms and shoot, shoot, shoot as many piglets as you can, or wild pig, like little, little guys as you can, and all these things. And so we're sitting here in this stand and, and Travis and I are just like, we've got like little question marks floating out of our heads with all these different animals.
They're not used to hunting. And then trying to navigate like how we're gonna identify these animals when we do see them. And on top of it, it's not like BC we're like, it's an animal that stopped and then you shoot it. Right? Like these are, they're all bolting 'cause they're being chased by dogs. The first one that came out was a, a wild boar, and we had been screamed at by the hunt leader, the whole group like, [00:42:00] can't do this, can't do that.
So we're terrified to misidentify something and this boar comes out and it was probably about a hundred yards away and Travis was like, I don't know, should I shoot it? Shouldn't I shoot it? I'm like, I'm trying to see if it has a penis as it's like running across this field. I'm like, I don't know. I don't see anything.
Anyways, one of the other guys in one of the other stands shot it, but it was just like, it was a very challenging hunt with all these rules in it. I think it would be a lot more enjoyable in a place like Texas where you're just like, just, it's a longitudal.
Speaker 2: If you see a pig, kill it. And if you see another, pull that one too.
Please.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. I was hunting in Sweden was really fun. But that first day was just like, oh my God. Our heads were spinning with like, how, how, how do you tell the 30 to 40 kilogram sow from a hundred yards away was like a test, A test of our eyesight and, and hunting ability, for sure.
Speaker 2: 30 k, two pounds.
Speaker: Well, that's it too, [00:43:00] right? Like we're Canadian we're the, uh, the ultimate meshing of imperial and metric for, for things, right? Yeah. That was a challenge.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think I would've been, I would've just been like, I'm an observer at this point.
Speaker: Well, yeah. For, for first part of the, the first, uh, drive, we were just like, just watching things and then to, to make it that much more challenging.
We know what fallow deer looked like, but the fallow deer in that particular region of Sweden were totally different. They're all black. They didn't, they didn't look like the, the lighter ones with the spots like we are used to seeing. So we saw a few of those, but we're like, I, I don't know what the hell that that deer is, but I'm not gonna shoot it.
But yeah. It was fun. It was really fun. With the, with your new new book project, are you, uh, are you getting out in the field a lot these days? Are you, uh, you've kind of done the work now, you're sitting behind a desk writing, or how's, how's your day to day looking? It's
Speaker 2: really, it's mostly riding [00:44:00] right now, recipes.
I am kind of like maybe a little cart before the horse on it in that I'm riding all the recipes, uh, testing some of them and then we're gonna do all the field work. We're really cramming the entire hunting portion of it into five days. Um, it's not intended to be heavy on hunting. It's gonna be more after that, you know.
So each one of these books has had a very different focus and theme and narrative hog books, but the textbook, the Turkey books, like a journal, you know, it's just like that took place in a little over two months. Of 2023. So it was just like, yeah, it was, the whole thing just happened in one season and it was meant to be, um, a little more literary and the, and, and it is, and it goes in time.
You'll notice that if as you're flipping through, we're, we're, as we're cooking turkeys, those are interjected into the, [00:45:00] the narrative of the hunt. So it's like, you know, it's like we stop hunting, we go back to the cabin, this is what we had for dinner. Here's the recipe. Next morning we get up, we go out, this is what we had for lunch.
And so it, it follows like a real linear, uh, like timeline. And, uh, this is gonna be, uh, probably more in the textbook realm of it, a little more technical. Um, and I really want to focus on the, the cooking. And so we don't need a lot of time in the field, uh, which is, you know, unfortunate because a lot of times that's the way I engineer, uh, myself.
Go and just have fun outside, is that I pretend that I'm working. Uh, and so this one is just, it really, I, I think it'll re, it'll require about those five days and we'll be able to get everything that we need in there. And then we're gonna move on to the real thorough guts of it, which is gonna be the, the cutting and cooking.
Uh, and it's gonna be very extensive on that end. So I would say 80, [00:46:00] 80, 90% of that versus a different, a different blend for the other books.
Speaker: So what, what's the reason for, for the different strategy on this?
Speaker 2: Well, without, without giving too much away, I feel like that, um, a lot of the hunting aspect has been covered.
It's, it's, you know, with media and, and just the volume of content
Speaker: mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And books and things out. Uh, right now it's, it's, my voice isn't really necessary in that real.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's also not, it's something I enjoy doing. It's not something I'm fanatical about. Um, I'm more fanatical about the eating side of it.
And so that's, you know, I mean, just to, to continue to be just like real and frank and honest, you know, it's just I feel like, hey, this is, this is where I wanna start with the conversation right here.
Speaker: Yeah. And,
Speaker 2: and move from there. Whereas Turkey, you know, I, the, the hunt, I, I feel like [00:47:00] is, is part of its mystique almost.
Yeah. And it's also kind of the same, uh, you're in, you're in a different situation. You're in a different, like, uh, biome. You're, you're in the mountains, you're in the swamps, you're in the brush country, you're in the hardwoods for turkeys. But the, the sequence of it is pretty much the same. You know, you're, you're roosting birds, you're getting there in the morning, you're trying to get 'em off the limb, and then you're chasing them all day.
And it kind of works out the same, whereas other animals, um, you know. Once you get into a different part of the country, it, it's, it's a totally different game.
Speaker: Yeah. And I, so I guess the strategies for how you've written this new book is what's guided you in your previous ones. You've sort of taken what you love about that subject
Speaker 2: mm-hmm.
Speaker: And used that to guide you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And like the pattern Now project would be a good example too, is like, uh, you know, I love dove hunting. Um, I, I feel like I'm, I'm fairly good at the hunting part. The [00:48:00] shooting part, maybe not, depends on the day. Um, but I, I, I do feel like I, I have a lot to bring as far as strategy about where, where you set up in a field.
And so we, we, we talk a lot about that in, in there. And so I don't always offer a much hunting information. I feel like I'm a mediocre hunter. Uh, uh, you know, I mean, I'm fine with that. That doesn't, doesn't bother me. You know? I love it. Um, but. You know, some, there's some things that I'm better at. And setting up in a dove field is something I'm pretty good at.
Like, I'm, I, I can analyze, I'll look at a map and I'll be like, I'll, you know, I'll look at the power lines and I'll look at the trees and the gaps, where the pond's at, where that one tree out in the field is at, and I'm like, I think we should go right there. And most of the time I'm right. And so I, I would include something like that.
So the, the things that I know I, I will include, but I, I think that's something, I hope that's something that, you know, readers, um, enjoy about the [00:49:00] books. It's like when I don't know something I, I don't know. You know, I'm like, I I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make it.
Speaker: I think it comes through pretty clear. I mean, you're, it, it is funny.
So many, so many books on, on, I find hunting especially, uh, try to be everything to everyone, all encompassing, this is how you do everything and yours are not like that, which makes 'em infinitely more trustworthy. You know, you read something that, that you write and you know, you're like, well, that's. That's, that's right.
And it's something that comes across as well, because your name has come up in conversations. I think actually recently I was speaking to Elias at Olympia Provisions and he, your name came up. He's like, yeah, like if you wanna know about, uh, barbecue or, or hog hunting or, or hog butchery. And he, you, he's like, you gotta talk to Jesse.
Jesse's a guy. Right. Like you're, there's, um, a strength in not trying to be everything to everyone. Right. And it's, [00:50:00] it's unattainable, but it definitely leads to infinitely more, uh, trust in your readers when, when they go through your stuff. Right.
Speaker 2: Exactly. You want to be reliable. And I mean, I always say like, I, I didn't.
Really write the hog book as much as I compiled answers to a thousand questions that I'd heard over a decade. And, and that's just, it was a really effective way to go about it. It's like, I mean, what is a, what is an educational book about hog hunting, butchering and cooking? You know, it's gonna be like, well, it's gonna be the things that, that the people that are actually doing that find to be germane topics.
Things that they're really wondering about. Like, can you eat a big boar? What do you do with a little pig? Can you smoke this? Uh, can you make bacon? You know, how do, does it matter if boom, boom, boom, this? And so it's like you hear these questions and you're like, write that question down. I'm gonna, you know, either apply my real real world knowledge to it or, and go and figure it [00:51:00] out.
You know, do some testing and be like, oh, hey, can you throw this on? The smoker is this big stinky boar edible. If I do this, does this work? And so I, I really just answered people's questions, you know, and, and in doing so, I provided them with the answers that they were looking for. And, um, I think that's the way you do it.
I mean, otherwise what are we doing here? You know, it's just like, I'm not writing books for me. I'm writing books for, for other people, and I love that. And so I think, yeah, knowing your limitations, not only you avoid giving out bad information or obviously false information, but you also make it seem like, uh, attaining knowledge is attainable.
You know it, so you, you put the reader in this position of like, oh, oh, okay, this guy doesn't know everything, but this seems to be well vetted. And so you, you do develop a, a trust with people. And I think it's really important to, to do that as, I mean, as an educator, you don't want, you [00:52:00] don't wanna talk down to people.
You kinda wanna talk with them. Be like, you know, when we're doing classes and somebody asks me something I don't know, I'm like, man, I don't know. But I love that question and I'm gonna, I'm gonna delve into that. And that's why the, the butchery classes, we used to cut three hogs in three hours, and now I'll cut, A lot of times I'll cut one hog in three and a half hours and this, and it's, I can't figure out the math.
I mean, what's happening is this more and more questions come in. I'm addressing more informational, uh, or information, you know. Versus just cutting and going and going through my spiel. And so it's, it's, and I, and nobody's complained about it. They're like, oh, I really wanted to see three hogs. And I'm like, instead, we did one or two and instead we, we covered a lot of ground because it's, I've, I've heard that much, that many more [00:53:00] questions, you know, since, so we've probably done 150 plus hog classes and so, you know, it's 10 people at each one and every one of them has multiple questions and you just compile these things.
And so it's, it's great. So it's so much fun.
Speaker: I think you forget too, uh, as a teacher how it's, it's rote for you, but for someone else, it's like overwhelming. I mean
Speaker 2: mm-hmm.
Speaker: I remember in cooking school, seeing my, my teacher butcher a hog and all I remember from that entire sequence was how he held the knife.
The rest of it, I, I dunno, it didn't, didn't stick with me, but I was mesmerized by how he held his knife to, to butcher the, the pig. So the fact that you're able to slow down and, and address all these things, I, I imagine it's infinitely more valuable to the, to the students and, you know, they're, they're retaining a lot more information, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you just have to have a, a lot of empathy, um,
Speaker: yeah. [00:54:00]
Speaker 2: Around like where they are. I, I'll tell you, this is a funny story. I've never, this will be the first time I've ever said this out loud. Like I, I, when I'm writing like a recipe specifically, I have, I have got this, uh, kind of aggregated person in my mind and I'm writing it for him.
It's a guy.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He is, uh, from Texas. He cooks sometimes loves to cook things on a smoker, loves to hunt, and is never heard of miso and
Speaker: Yeah. No, fair.
Speaker 2: You know, and it's like, and so while I'm writing, I'm like, okay, I need to have this conversation with this person.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, and, but I also need to convince him to try miso, you know?
And I need to be like, it's fermented beans, but wait,
Speaker: yeah. Beer's fermented too. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah. Right, right. Exactly. An empathetic [00:55:00] response. And I mean, and another thing that I've been doing a lot lately is in small towns, I'm going into grocery stores and walking around and just absorbing everything that they have there.
And you know, I mean, I'm in Austin, Texas. I can go to the, I can drive right down the street. There's a, I mean a Mexican grocery store that's phenomenal. Right over here I've got every dried chili types of sugar and kind of some crazy produce there. And I go to, and there's Central market and Whole Foods.
There's these really nice, beautiful big grocery stores. And I'm like, sometimes you gotta like back out of that and see like. If you were in this town, what can you make with these ingredients? Like when you go there? Do they have parsnips? No, but they have carrots, you know? Yeah. So it's like, and we'll, we'll talk about that.
You just throw a carrot in there, you'll be fine. Yeah. Um, and so also like developing that, that [00:56:00] empathy, you know, of, of like situation, you know, it's like I really want people to succeed and make these recipes and be excited about it. And, and, but, and how do you go about it? Don't lose 'em in the process, you know, and just keep them engaged and, and, and have fun.
Speaker: Yeah. And I, I think it all, it all boils down to lack of, lack of ego in, in how you're writing these things, right? Like you just wanting that connection with the end user wanting to have, like you said, empathy for, for what they're dealing with and, and limitations they might be facing. But at, at the end of the day, just like being passionate about it and wanting to share.
Share good food and, and share them in the experience is like, I think what pulls people in, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I was asked, uh, at a, at a, I was doing a little talk and somebody asked me what was the most important, uh, I can't remember what was the like thing, like probably said thing, what's [00:57:00] the most important thing to remember while you're butchering and processing wild game?
And so I was like, oh, is it, is it keeping it cold? Or you know, is it a little dash in maple syrup? I was like, but yeah, I was like, wait, wait, wait. No, I know what it is. It's that you should enjoy it. And, and maintaining, um, that level of enjoyment throughout the entire process. Now I have spoken extensively out about this concept.
Mm-hmm. And, but it, it bears repeating like when you start planning a. You know, for instance, you know, I'm gonna go hunt with my good friend Eli in Oregon in April. We're hunting turkeys. And so from the minute we started planning this trip, you know, it's very enjoyable. So I'm, I'm, I'm maintaining this, this like linear level of enjoyment.
You know, I'm gonna get on the plane, it's gonna be great. I'm gonna see you. I give him a big hug, he's [00:58:00] gonna drive me to some crazy restaurant. We're gonna have an amazing meal. And then we're gonna head, uh, east to the mountains of eastern Oregon. We're gonna hunt Turkey. That's gonna be amazing. It's gonna be frustrating and amazing.
We're gonna shoot a Turkey. That's gonna be fun. We're gonna butcher that Turkey. At that point, a lot of people lose interest. They're like, Ugh. Mm-hmm. You know, the work begins and stuff. It's like, wait, a, it doesn't have to be take your time, get yourself a beer or a cup of coffee, or whatever it is that you like to enjoy this part of it and just look at it and enjoy it.
Enjoy this, the feathers and the blood and all that stuff, and the smells, whatever. You know, it's like, this is cool. We're so lucky to be able to experi experience this. You're maintaining that level of enjoyment. Then you get to package it, bring it home, and then you start to get to cook it. You know? And it's just like, that's so much fun.
Every little bit of it, the neck, the wings, the gizzard, uh, the broth, everything that you, that comes off of this. Like, [00:59:00] that's, I mean, if, if you can maintain that excitement and just kind of trick your mind into thinking, this is wonderful until that very last package is gone, and then you chart that whole thing from the minute that I call you, I'm like, Hey man, I'm coming up there in April.
Until that very last package of Turkey is consumed. If you maintain this beautiful, like, level of enjoyment throughout the whole entire process, then that's the trick. You know? That's it. That's how you, how you get there. Well, how do I get to make it better? It's like, it's really not about, you know, how much salt you put in and it says, how about you?
Did you love this? You know? And if you, if you love doing it, you're gonna be more engaged in it, and you're gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna give miso a shot. You know?
Speaker: I think, I think it's also a bigger statement on life too, right? Like, I mean, if you can enjoy folding your laundry and enjoy that process, then, right?
Like, I mean, that, that's it, right? Like, I remember, uh, I, what's her Marie [01:00:00] Kondo talking about? Like, does it bring you joy or whatever, right? But it was, it was like a light switch in my brain where I'm like, dammit, I have to fold my laundry, so I might as well
Speaker 2: You're using, you're using my words against me now.
Speaker: Yeah. No, but seriously though, like, it's, it's. Not everyone is gonna love start to finish.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Right. Like, not everyone's gonna find the joy in pulling the guts out of a Turkey, but if you can reframe it in your brain and say, this is part of the process. I have to do it, so I might as well enjoy it. I mean, it, it was, for me, it was a life changing experience.
It really was. Like, and it's, it's a shame when people, they kill the animal and they're like, okay, well, uh, my job's done. Mm-hmm. Like for me, the best, like my favorite part is, is butchering it, packaging up. That's, I love it. Like you said, like, put on my little black gloves. I have my coffee. I like, I'm setting my time aside for the day.
This is what I'm doing. I'm loving every second of it.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: But [01:01:00] it's, it's a challenge. Like, how do you get people to, to get on board with that?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the, the real, um. Issue for so many people is time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like the way that they view time. Mm-hmm. And, you know, always able to make these pretty, I, I think substantive arguments about it.
You know, let's take doves for example. You don't probably hunt doves. We hunt doves a lot. Mm-hmm. Pluck doves. Doves are tiny. They're, they're just, they're very little, but I pluck them in their, each one of them in their entirety. You know, over a season we'll probably bring, you know, 8,000 plus doves home, each one of them plucked.
And people in Texas, you'll get openly mocked for doing that. You're supposed to just like pop the breasts off and then peel the breasts out, and then you throw the bird away. We save the hearts, the livers and the gizzards. I mean, the heart is tiny, you know, it's like [01:02:00] half the size of a dime. But once you accumulate a hundred of those mm-hmm.
You've got something. But also. Like, okay, so, you know, to, to go on this big dove hunt that we go to every year, we drive there in four and a half hours, and then we, you know, stay there for a couple nights and then we drive 45 minutes to get to the dove field, and then we hunt doves for two, three hours.
Drive. I mean, I'm just like, wait a minute. Where at what point did that extra 25 minutes just be like, whoa, we're talking about too much time. Or like, or pulling the legs off of your Turkey. It's like, listen, man, you just sat under the tree for seven hours and another eight minutes is gonna break the whole deal.
Like, it, it doesn't make any sense to me, but it time is usually used as the excuse, oh, that takes a lot of time for what you get. And I'm like, man, he drove for 12 hours to get here. Like, uh, and I think it's way more [01:03:00] meaningful to be extracting this thing, you know, from, and this essentially is what we're, what we're here for.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Uh, and, and, and it doesn't make much sense, but once you kind of crack that, that time argument open, I think that it's kinda like, oh, okay. I can take my time. I mean beyond like sanitary standards or whatever, but like taking your time to clean a deer or a Turkey. Takes that stress away. 'cause we're we're ingrained to be like, oh, we just gotta get this part of it done.
You know, just, uh, because it's just time doing this thing we don't want to do. But it, like, if you take your time and do it right, and you take that, that pressure and that stress out of the, out of the factors, you know, it, it seems so much more enjoyable.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. And it's like, you talk about time and time and money and the value of things and I mean, how many hours a day do people spend on their phones pressing buttons and doing stuff that they're not getting back?
Right. Like [01:04:00] it's, it's, it's a challenge. And I, I think, again, circling back, we're we're food. And taste and, and, and like, having that story is how, how you convince people, right? Like yes, financially it probably doesn't make sense to, like you say, drive four and a half hours to a dove hunt and then, you know, 45 minutes out to the actual location and then all the cleaning, right?
Like money-wise that the math doesn't math, right? Like, people that come into our hunting courses and they're like, well, you know, I'm just looking for cheap, you know, I'm trying, food's so expensive in the grocery store. I, I'm trying to save money and, you know, provide cheap food for my family. I'm like, well, hunting is definitely not the solution there, right?
Like, this is, I I think it's great that you wanna do it, but you're probably gonna be disappointed if, if this is like a money saving, money saving venture. And you, you are talking about hunting with your, with your daughter. How does that relate to, to you hunting? [01:05:00]
Speaker 2: Oh, it's changed everything really. Yeah.
You know, in the past it's, it's been about the past two years where she's surpassed me in what she's putting in the freezer. And that's all by design is because I would rather just be with her and let her do it. Um, I have no more, you know, desire to be the one that, that it doesn't matter to me how it gets in there.
That direction. Yeah. How, how it gets in there. Uh, I just need it in there and I would prefer for her to maintain that, that connection. And, uh, she's 15 and so, you know, we're, we've gone since age eight. Um, you know, kind of. Through some years where it was pretty easy, uh, easy by, by that I mean like she, she was still very much into it and now we're kind of into this, you know, time in her life where, you know, a weekend is time to be spent with your [01:06:00] friends and not, not the likes of dad out in, in the country, you know, hunting deer, but she still wants to.
And so it's just like super meaningful. Every year we will travel and do a Turkey hunt. We went to Nebraska last year and the year before we went to Washington State and it's my favorite thing. It just, it's just simply my favorite thing. It's like a great way to spend a lot of time, you know, in the car with her talking, seeing new places.
You know, we got to drive through the La Lakota reservation. We got to drive by Wounded Knee. We got to see Mount Rushmore. We got to see Crazy Horse Monument. We went to the town of Custer, we went to, we saw the Badlands, we saw the Black Hills, you know, all these incredible things. Just in one trip, actually in one day, that we got to do all that.
Um, and that's another thing about, you know, I was saying earlier is Turkey hunting. You know, it's like, [01:07:00] that was after a Turkey hunt and we were just going to the airport, you know, like all of those things happened. Um, and so spending time, uh, with her in that context after she had just killed a giant big fat Miriams on the last hour of the last day, um, yeah, it doesn't get any better.
And, and I, I just really enjoy hunting with her and I'm, I'm bracing myself further to be a gap. Where she's says, maybe not this year, it's gonna be hard for me, but I do feel like she'll circle back to it. I mean, she's an excellent shot. She's really good at it. Uh, she enjoys it. Um, she likes to eat it. And, um, I think that it's, it is a long term investment.
Speaker: Yeah. What more, what more can you ask for? Right. Like that the quality time of the, the drive out to the hunt is mm-hmm. Is invaluable.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: It's [01:08:00] amazing.
Speaker 2: It's wonderful.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, was there, uh, anything we missed? Anything you, uh, you wanna discuss? I
Speaker 2: don't think so.
Speaker: No,
Speaker 2: I feel like we've, we've covered some
Speaker: the wide gamut.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. I, I get rambly, drink enough coffee and I can go, go anywhere for any amount of time.
Speaker: Yeah, no, it's been, it's been amazing. I've, I've really enjoyed speaking with you. And, um, for the, for the listeners, we'll put links to, uh, to books and websites and, uh, your, uh, paternal project. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right.
I know I didn't before, but
Speaker 2: No, it's, it's totally fine. Yeah. I, I,
Speaker: Canadian accent, dammit.
Speaker 2: I also am realizing that I like to create things with strange names, you know, is the name of the restaurant, and people are like, wait, what? You know, my mom still can't pronounce it. Um, and uh, and then the Patal project, so [01:09:00] Patal is the Spanish.
There's a, well there's a river very close to, to us here in central Texas called the Patinas. Um. And petal, uh, is a Spanish word for Flint. And so, uh, with the indigenous tribes around here, Flint, you know, most places I was, uh, probably the most important, uh, lithic material for, for tool making. And so I just have always loved that word.
And so it is now, uh, and yeah, it means Flint.
Speaker: Very cool. And it's, it's like an amazing, amazing site. I recommend everyone check it out. It's, it's, it's beautifully laid out. The content looks amazing. And, uh, being able to tap into your brain and, and your skills and, and being able to share that with a wide audience is massive resource for people.
So highly recommend they check that out.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I, um, I, I, uh, look forward to, I'm actually meeting Elias next week. We're driving down to Portland to [01:10:00] hang out and, uh, go check out his facility and have dinner at his restaurant and right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, he is, he is such a stunning person. Um, the, the facility where he's making all this sausage, it'll just blow your mind.
It's one of the largest, uh, in the US That's, I mean, and he's using all pastured pork too.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Uh, it's, he's just, he's a visionary. And you'll get in there and you'll, you'll be able to see some incredible things. Um, and then you'll eat some. Very, very good food and a lot of it Get ready.
Speaker: I'll wear my stretchy pants.
Speaker 2: He doesn't know when to stop.
Speaker: Oh, that it sounds, it sounds amazing. I've, I actually recorded a podcast with him a few weeks back and, um, I've been a big fan of his, his work, but like, as a human being, he's just like, he seems just super generous and, and humble and amazing. I can, I can see why you two are friends.
'cause you guys seem to share a lot of qualities, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker 2: I mean that's, that's a [01:11:00] compliment right there, so
Speaker: thank Yeah, no problem. Well, thank you very much, Jesse. It's been a real pleasure and, uh, enjoy working on your, on your book and I'm very excited to see, uh, see when it comes out, what it's all about.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Tiffany. I really enjoyed.