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Get Me to the Gray, presented by COJA Services Inc., is a podcast about the conversations we’re told we shouldn’t have. Hosted by journalist and author Paula Lehman-Ewing, the show brings people with fundamentally different ways of seeing the world into honest dialogue—where we name what divides us and keep talking anyway.
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Paula (Host): [00:00:00] There's a social contract between musicians. It's unspoken, which I think is part of the point. You learn it by being inside the craft long enough for it to become obvious who leads, who follows, when to play, when to listen, when to put down the instrument. The contract is particularly load-bearing in cultural music traditions, the ones that didn't just survive history, they were shaped by history, where the form itself is an act of preservation where the way you play is inseparable from the tradition that you're protecting.
But here's the problem. That contract is legible only if you're let in long enough to learn it. and the people arriving at the door now don't necessarily grow up inside the culture that made the rules, which means the tradition is doing two things at once that don't always sit easily together. It's holding the line and holding the door open.
So I'm gonna start with [00:01:00] Tara Cunahan, the creator and host of In Tune with Tradition, a podcast built on the idea that session etiquette isn't about rules, it's about behavior.
And that understanding the difference between those two things is what separates feeling welcomed into a session from sitting on the edge of one, not quite sure how to get in. So Tara, before I bring in our second voice, I wanted to ask you something foundational. when you talk about behavior over rules- Mm-hmm
tell me about how is, that is a distinguishing perception.
Tara Connaghn: think the behavior happens because people are maybe unsure of the expectations. I think that's kind of what it is. and it's maybe those ex- expectations aren't very clear because there's, everything's very unclear. So, yeah, I think, I think the main thing is that the session is probably not quite a [00:02:00] democracy, which is what we've kind of all kind of grown up with, but yet a session is slightly, slightly different.
it's kind of democratic, but it's kind of not.
Paula (Host): Okay. Well, let's see how that feels to someone who is learning to sit in on those sessions. I'm gonna bring in, Wendy Morgan. Wendy came to this tradition the way a lot of people do, just through deliberate pursuit.
she plays classical piano and is, as she puts it, attempting Donegal-style, Southwest Donegal-style fiddle. So she met Tara during a music festival up in, Glen, which I'm gonna have you tell me about because it's a fantastic story. and then she started listening to Tara's podcast and Somewhere in that listening, she started accumulating some questions that the podcast answered and some questions that it didn't.
So Wendy, tell me a little bit about how you met Tara and your first impressions of the podcast.
Wendy Morgan: it's going back [00:03:00] about 20 years ago that I decided that it would be nice to be a bigger part of something that should, I feel, have been a bigger part of my culture, but which I just didn't access when I was a child.
and then of course, it rolled into my teenage years where I was already busy on a path doing something else anyway, which was a happy one, but, solitary and I'm not gonna say boring, but it's certainly, I was looking in on the craic from the outside on the rare occasions that I discovered a mad session, which I stumbled upon in random places.
one of which was Letterkenny when the Fleadh Cheoil was on, and I can remember standing on the outside looking in and thinking, "I want to be in that session." There's, a gap here between these people who are sitting in this, around this table and having all the craic and playing tunes, and then these people who are completely extra on the outside.
So by good luck, I ended up at the Glen Fiddle Week up [00:04:00] in Donegal. it's an absolutely stunning setting. It's a beautiful week in the middle of the summer. I was already on holidays and relaxed, and I remember driving into Glen and, discovering people standing on the side of the road at nighttime, outdoors, with, in Tara's case, she was wearing like a old kind of satchel style handbag across her chest.
I'm pretty sure there was no pint in her hand or anything, but she had a fiddle case, I think, on her back or at her feet, and she was going gusto on the fiddle. And I thought, "Oh my God, I wanna be that girl."
I was just fascinated that somebody would be standing on the side of the road playing music, where I had grown up with half an hour, very organized kind of formal lessons every day, but actually couldn't play happy birthday, without my piano music. So I had decided that I needed more fun, and I had found it.
And that was 20 years ago, and I'm having so [00:05:00] much fun that I'm still, doing a lot of talking on the outside and having the craic instead of actually playing the tunes.
you mentioned a moment where you're looking at a session and there are people that are on the outside of it, and then there are the central group, and that desire to be in the center and not on the peripheral.
Paula (Host): Is that, does that feel like you know, oh, this is something I wanna work towards? Or does it feel somewhat exclusionary as well?
Wendy Morgan: Now that we're having these discussions more, I know that I looked from the outside in and was very aware that I was not sharing the bond of what was going on there. I was this superfluous extra, 100% irrelevant to any of the enjoyment that anybody else was having.
it's actually a fascinating never-ending journey where I am never one of the main players. I'm always people watching because there's a lot of time for me to listen and watch, and now I'm kind of that [00:06:00] might take out my fiddle, might play a handful of tunes, but likewise might end up with none all night.
or might end up with actually scrambling my way through half the night, and it's totally unpredictable, but it is still very much a, I'm a, I'm an extra that's, my contribution is questionable, in terms of I never know whether I'm going to have anything to offer. more often than not, I probably don't.
I still enjoy it all the same, and I think I call myself a level something listener 'cause that's predominantly actually my contribution is that I'm listening,
Paula (Host): I want you guys to really address some of the questions that you've been sitting with for each other.
But in setting that up, I wanna go back to Tara and that same scene, people on the periphery and people in the middle.
I mean, Wendy even used the word rules, and your etiquette says, "Well, it's not rules, it's behavior." And so take me inside that [00:07:00] tension. And Wendy, feel free to pepper Tara with all the questions that you've wanted to ask her in this last 20 years of friendship.
Tara Connaghn: Yeah. I suppose, 'cause it's, the rules are very loose 'cause, you know, they change with every... So therefore I'm, I hesitant to call them rules because they change so often. You know, if this session today might be completely different to the session tonight, because there might be different people in it.
And, you know, we're all just people in, under the same sky, and we all want to have a, an amazing time together. And so there's times where I feel guilty that I maybe should be more thoughtful to people who are learning. And then there's times where I'm, where sometimes I may feel guilty that I'm actually just having a good time with people that are similar level.
So there's kind of that tension always in my head going, "Am I giving enough? Am I receiving enough?" There's that kind of tension in my head the whole time. And it's more of a session in a corner in a pub. It's not really on a stage thing, it's more kind of off stage. It's kind of when people just [00:08:00] let loose and, and enjoy themselves.
So you want everybody to jo- enjoy themselves. And that is the reason I said at the start of the podcast, 'cause I wanted to try and kinda decode what was going on so that more people could stop worrying or maybe be less anxious when they're joining sessions so that they could really enjoy it too.
Paula (Host): So Wendy, then what are the barriers to that?
Like, what, you know, why isn't that coming across in general sessions?
Wendy Morgan: Ooh, I think it's, it, they're, they're so fluid and there's so many things that change in a session that it's not like having a football game where you have a ref, you have two sides.
The setting changes all the time. Then there's never a referee, or at least you think there isn't, unless... Or actually, maybe there actually is, and you're the referee yourself and you don't know. then there's also, like, people are in good form one night and not good form the next night, or they meet different people and they think of different tunes.
And you're looking forward to the tunes that you think you might know that you play, 'cause y- you know these people play those tunes. But of course, they're not there to play the tunes that you know, [00:09:00] because they're the ones you've learned. So it can be a frustrating, situation. I used to really struggle to understand why sometimes Tara sat in a session and sometimes she didn't.
I think because there's just no stable...
It's a bit like sailing or something. Like, when there's a boat involved, and then there's the sea, then there's the tide, then there's the wind, then there's the crew, the skill of the crew, then stuff just happens. You know? The, it, there's a race on, and the boat's cut in front of you, and you have to rejig things.
And sessions are a bit like sailing for me. There's just so many unpredictable things that happen, and yet they're sort of meant to be like you're going somewhere. You're meant to be getting somewhere. But I've no idea where it is. I don't know what the end is. I don't know how long you're supposed to have to get there.
For me, sometimes I can't figure out why sometimes people would want to play and sometimes they don't feel like playing, but yet they're all where the session is. So the mu- music is what has brought them there, but then- I don't know whether they're listening tonight and they've [00:10:00] decided, "I think I'll listen tonight," or whether they just don't feel it, or whether it's they had a bad day at the office, or they don't know the tunes, or like I just...
And I suppose for me then that's where I either start watching or talking. and I either watch and listen and go very quiet and, I love a session where actually, no, I haven't talked to anybody. but it inevitably means I have to detract myself from any conversations.
I have to hide almost in a little corner where I'm not in anybody's way in the middle of the session. and I know like down in one of the pubs I used to... There's like a corner, a sidebar in one of the bars in D- Glencolmcille, and it's probably going back 10 or 15 years, but I actually used to get in behind the corner bench and sit down on the ground underneath almost like the fiddler's feet, like a, you know, like a puppy dog or something.
And I'd pop up on the screen and go to the toilet, and then I'd come back in, and then I'd, you know, half an hour later maybe go out again and get a pint, and I'd sit in with my [00:11:00] pint.
And on other nights I don't, I don't hear the music because I'm so busy sitting at the bar talking with somebody. And I've no idea why I do that. It just happens. It's just such an organic, mad, crazy thing that you just can't measure.
Paula (Host): Well, and that's interesting because, 'cause you're describing a sort of like at a, I just go with the flow. I don't know why they're doing what they're doing.
I don't know why I'm doing what I'm doing. Yeah. I'm sitting at someone's feet. I'm sitting at the bar. You know, it's just- Yeah ... it's great, but then you get into Tara's perspective where everything does have a structure, where there is like an etiquette and there are , not rules of engagement, but certain behaviors that have to be learned.
And I guess I'm wondering, Tara, how you see that conflict 'cause you, it's, like you said, it's not really a democracy,
Tara Connaghn: There are, frequent nights where I, you know, just don't get into the middle of the session. Sometimes I would like to be in it. And, the one thing I suppose maybe [00:12:00] that's really pertinent in my head is that- I don't want to impose my energy on something that doesn't want my energy or that those...
So it's bigger than me. as in the music's bigger than me. And there's lots of people that I would get on really well with and, and play really well with. And then there's lots of people that, you know, maybe they just, we just don't maybe click, and that's fine. And so if some of those people I think maybe are in a session, I'll normally hang back because I'm thinking, life's too short to put myself in something that, is going to make me feel a little bit kind of like I'm not particularly wanted or needed here.
So I pull myself back from that. or maybe as, as Wendy said, I just could be tired, I could be exhausted, and all I wanna do is chat to Wendy at the bar Yeah. And I- Which we do frequently.
Wendy Morgan: I don't have enough tunes to ever be needed.
So I don't [00:13:00] have any of that layer of worry or, Mm-hmm ... concern that Tara has when she... Like, the, my only thing is will I bother opening the fiddle because I think I might know enough tunes to warrant taking out my bow and wasting some rosin. and then I'm like, "I've taken up a stool. What do I do?" but it's f- like, I have no expectations on what my, input will be because I know I'm not accomplished enough to really make a difference in a positive way.
It would only be, and, and I would hope I've learned what a session wrecker is, so I don't do session wrecking. So I'm not gonna be hopefully a negative, but I'm definitely not bringing a whole lot of positivity in terms of moving it along with my energy or my tunes or what I chose because I'm not at that stage.
So I think there's a lot of freedom on my part that maybe Tara doesn't have because the weight of the music that she's actually carrying, can have a far bigger impact of anything I can offer. So I don't have that weight. [00:14:00] I, I have happy, carefree nights at sessions.
Wendy, you mentioned that you had maybe listened to a part of the first episode and you switched off 'cause you were annoyed by something in it. So ...
Are we going there?
Tara Connaghn: Oh, we are
Speaker: going
Wendy Morgan: there.
Tara Connaghn: I know that you have had, quite a good discussion in a WhatsApp group, about asking questions.
Because there are frustrations, I do believe, from learner's point of view and, I want to see if, they can be sort of, aired because I think- Teased out ... they're necessary. Yeah.
Wendy Morgan: Yeah.
I got quite excited. i- in, it really annoyed me. I got really annoyed, and I was so amazed at how annoyed I got that I was like, "God, what's wrong with me today?"
Like, I've ... It had completely PMI bonnet over something that I didn't know I was meant to have an opinion about. I think part of the success of the podcast for everybody is that it's opened a can of worms that everybody is now actually discussing.
And I'm like, "Sorry, are we meant to know about this?" Like, I still get given out to, in a way. Not given out to, but like, I, if I [00:15:00] possibly start a tune now in a session and go from a jig and end in a hornpipe, people are like, "Yeah, that was a different type of tune." I'm like, "Was it?" Like, I don't know. And I'm like, are you meant to have three hornpipes that you play three times because that's what somebody did once on a recording and everybody thought that's what we're supposed to do.
But when I started listening to the podcast, I realized why, for me, it made me feel like it will never be accessible because I'm just always gonna be on the outside of this circle that I didn't really know exists. It never crossed my mind when I was looking in to the session in Letterkenny with my friend and saying, "I wanna be in there."
That actually I would really never be in there 'cause actually I don't belong. Because I wasn't born into it. even though I'm Irish, I speak Irish, I'm, as Irish as the Irish can be. I dunno. But, because it wasn't given to me as a gift when I was growing up, I feel like I've actually realized in [00:16:00] part of the podcast, I'm just never gonna be anything except an outsider.
Like, I'm always gonna be a foreigner s- trying to get in. and I don't even know what was being said in particular, but, my reaction, I was just so annoyed, about this, this circle existing. And there being like, this sort of hierarchy almost of who might start tunes, and that you can't really start a tune unless you have enough tunes to go with the tunes, and you play them well enough.
Whereas it never crossed my mind that y- you would have to attain a certain level in order to get into this inner circle. And that actually you mightn't get into the inner circle anyway because it's hard to get in there 'cause you weren't born to the music.
Paula (Host): Well, and before, Tara, I want you to engage with that in a second. But before that, Wendy, do you think that that realization, that freedom that you express, like, "I'm just sort of there and I do this and I do that."
Do you think that's because there isn't... Like, it, did it [00:17:00] diminish a drive to get in the middle of that crowd?
Wendy Morgan: I think probably it did, although I haven't thought about that, so that's a very good question. I think for me, starting out it didn't cross my mind that you would have to be essentially, like, good enough, depending on who was in the session, to join them.
I've realized now there are people that I would... I do know how privileged I am when I go to Glenn. Like, there are just absolutely incredible players there, in a different league. You know, there's nothing average about it. It's almost like, um, I know in chess tournaments they, you know, they buddy up everybody and when you win you play against another winner, and the loser plays against another loser.
And the idea, I think, I heard today from the chess teacher is that after three rounds of winning and losing, they've sorted out where everybody is, and then the tournament really proper kind of starts at the right level. and there's no way of doing that in a session, but if [00:18:00] there was, I would probably aim to play every night instead of no night.
And I would be happily filtered down to where I sort of belonged at the moment with, maybe aspirations to be, you know, in the next group up over time. But really for me it's absolutely dependent on who the personalities are now who are playing.
I understand also that because the week in Glen is so exceptional, people are home for their holidays or they're there to fill up their own pot and not to facilitate me and the one week that I'm trying to do it. I should be more proactive about trying to find a session that matches my level more.
so Tara, as you answer that, I want you to think of a couple things. Irish traditional music has survived things it shouldn't have survived, right? Colonialization, diaspora. and the reason why it did that, in part, is because it stuck to certain etiquette.[00:19:00]
Paula (Host): But it also did that because it had to be passed to new generations of players. So when you hear Wendy, who would represent a newcomer or, someone coming to the tradition to carry it forward, but feeling distanced because she wasn't born into that tradition, tell me about how that lands with you.
Tara Connaghn: I do know where Wendy is coming from. Absolutely. and it is really hard to be in that middle of the circle. Like the, if you're, I wouldn't say born into it, but if you didn't grow up with that, so if you didn't kind of learn all those, I suppose, what we call them, kind of nuanced behavioral rules, as a kind of a teenager.
Because it's not as if we all came out of the womb and suddenly we knew, you know, what we the r- how to act in a session. We didn't. Nobody did. You know, it's, we all gonna went through those phases of, "Oh, shit, I've just done some- I've just done a big mistake." And you went home and you cried, probably [00:20:00] cried or, you really thought about it, you know, thinking, "Oh, my God.
Am I ever gonna live down the embarrassment?" You know, es- especially as a teenager. You're like, "Oh, my God. I wish the ground would open up and swallow me. I've just done the biggest faux pas ever." And then, you know, time moves on and you realize you make another one and then another one and then, and you're like, "Well, I'll not do that one again.
and so it is possible, I think, because there are examples of adults who have taken it up, later in life and who're, who are able to sort of get those nuances. Definitely. and there's even people who don't play, but have been around sessions a lot and get the kind of, get the vibes.
I was actually, recently at a session, it was maybe last summer or something, and there was two little girls. One was a 12-year-old and the other was her six-year-old sister. and the 12-year-old was, was playing. Now she has more of a classical background, but likes to learn a bit of traditional mus- music as well.
So she was in the session and she wanted to play her tunes that she had just learnt and, and she'd already just played a couple of [00:21:00] tunes as, as well. And it was a small session, so it wasn't, it was no harm in anything. but she wanted to play the next tune and her six-year-old sister tapped her on the shoulder.
She goes, "I don't think yet. Hold back." So the six-year-old Could like just pick this up, whereas the 12-year-old who was in the sessions more than the six-year-old was able to pick it up. so I think it's maybe ... 'Cause Wendy's really good at picking things up, so she's probably, you know.
Wendy Morgan: I'm just riding the wave that's already gone. And I'm like- ... scrambling on the surfboard at the back, you know, for the free ride. Because, I'm not going to be leaving traditional Irish music in a better space than it is.
that's Tara actually. and like I've never cried after a session, ever. Like, w- yeah, cer- certainly not from the music or what happened at the session. And I've never been embarrassed 'cause I, I didn't go there, 'cause I ... Well, maybe because I hung back, but also like I recognized that this wasn't my party over there [00:22:00] somewhere.
And like I, I've, I've probably done multiple faux pas at this stage, but certainly none that I would be going home and worrying and saying, "God, better not do that again." Because I'm coming to it as an adult and I, I just don't have, any of the history that comes with that. Like, I have a friend I know whose mother asked the, the leader or whatever it was in a session one time when she was a child, could she start some tunes?
And she'd been learning, and she was going to lessons, and he said no. And she heard that and knew about it, and it affected her for maybe even still, where basically at the age of, you know, 12 or 14 or whatever, where she had a few tunes, they weren't welcome. Um, and that was in her hometown around the corner from where she lived.
So she, she has carried that. Whereas I, I've never carried anything except having stumbled upon it as an adult, it looked like great craic, and I thought [00:23:00] I'd like to, to have a bigger chunk of the craic than be standing watching it, you know?
I can stand in the sidelines and shout on. I don't necessarily want to be tackled and smashed to the ground and in the middle of a ruck and, you know, a scrum, but I'm happy to cheer on. But with music, I think I'd like to be part of it ...
Tara Connaghn: I'm just wonder how can, how can us, you know, as, I suppose more skilled musicians help those others to be more included, in times where we just want to maybe play the tune?
Wendy Morgan: I think once you leave your house, and you're going to play music somewhere in a pub, you just have uncontrollables, too many of them.
Like, you can't say, "Right, if for every session from now on, take the length of time, divide it by 10, and give that 10% to all the newbies." You can't do that. You can't just like chunk it off and say- "Right, we're gonna give you 10 minutes lads to scramble through whatever, and then we're going back." Like, it, once you leave your, house, it's the music and the people who are playing it, and then the [00:24:00] setting, and then the time of day and, you know, how many pints have been drank or none or, you know.
You just, you can't control a lot of it. That's why I think it's- Mm ... it's a funny conversation because we're trying to put, meaning and purposeful sort of conversations around something that literally is just like a wild child. Like it's there's, I don't know how you're meant to control it. It's like, it's like the sea.
Like, you can't say, "Well, we're gonna go sailing on Tuesday," so you have to turn down the wind enough and you have to turn up the tide, and, you have to have every crew member well and happy and, you know, like you just, there's too many things. You can't change it.
Speaker: But if the sea, if you- I would say in sailing it would be better to turn up the wind and down the tide, but okay.
Tara Connaghn: I would say the- but then if the, the conditions were never right, would people want to sail?
Wendy Morgan: the safest place for boats, is in a harbor, but they weren't built for it.
Tara Connaghn: Yeah.
Wendy Morgan: So you gotta bring your fiddle to the session, [00:25:00] not leave it at home. If you bring your-
fiddle to the session, it's like, what do you do then? It's like, "Oh, who's here? Is my safe harbor Tara?" And then I could start listing people. I'm like, if I saw certain people in the pub, I'd be like, "Right. Okay, I'll definitely play tunes tonight." Because it's like they're making an imaginary safe harbor where I know that they are welcoming enough of facilitating me playing my handful of tunes.
And I'm not gonna be s- taking over the session 'cause I don't have enough But it would be nice to play 10 tunes over the course of three and a half hours and not at breakneck speed. 'Cause otherwise I will never get there. It's j- it's just gonna always be unobtainable. And then there's other people I know who when they join a session, I may as well put my fiddle down and put it away, even though I've played nine of my tunes, you know, fairly well, because they're just gonna vamp up the speed and that's it, gone for me.
Tara Connaghn: it. And I, I think that that doesn't change because there's different levels though. I mean, that's the s- that's the [00:26:00] social element of it.
Wendy Morgan: Personalities and-
Tara Connaghn: Yeah, because, like I was, I was explaining earlier, there's people that I just, you know, wouldn't join a session if they were in it or if they joined the session. Eventually I'd kinda peter out because
We'd look at things differently, so I kind of go, "Right, I'll just, I'll stick it out for a little while and then I'll, I'll go and talk to Wendy at the bar."
Paula (Host): I think there's a difference between what you're experiencing, which is kind of like difference in styles, difference in technique, different in understanding and, personalities and stuff, versus someone who is on stage and then that hierarchy takes over where people are like, "Oh, we can play that," but not in a way that you can keep playing it.
You know what I mean? Like, it does seem more hierarchical , in Wendy's situation where, where I'm at least hearing a bit of like railroading where it's just sort of like she's playing a tune, they start to play the tune, but they play it in a way that she can't play it anymore.
Tara Connaghn: I don't think, well, I would, I would hope that doesn't happen [00:27:00] very often. I never would ever, ever, ever do that because I just think it's rude. I think it's really rude for anybody-
Wendy Morgan: But I think for some people- ... doesn't matter what level ... it's rude if you have the awareness of what you're doing.
But I think for some- Yeah ... people, they're not aware the same way that you are, and they don't necessarily look and check out and see what might be happening. So they join the session with very little or maybe sometimes loads of, but don't care, or sometimes none, awareness that they're, they're going to have an impact on this.
And their behavior- Mm-hmm ... or the speed of their tunes or whatever is going to have maybe an access issue for others. You know, it's like everybody was happy to play a division lower than where they can. We're back to the sports analogy. you're w- able to play a division lower and include everybody, and everybody has a nice time.
And then you get somebody who's like three levels up, and they ain't going back to schoolboy stuff. They'll [00:28:00] maybe go down a level or two, and then the others are happy to go up to that because they have been damping down things. So they get pulled up, and the other person who's come in doesn't even realize that somebody else is dropping out because they joined in.
Tara Connaghn: But
Wendy Morgan: yeah.
Tara Connaghn: Yeah. The, the division lower thing, I mean, it... There are times when I don't... Yeah, I, I, I don't mind doing it, but it's, it, it, it's, it's a different session for me- Yeah ... if I am playing at a different level to what I know I'm capable of.
It's, it's like, it's almost like a teaching session. Facilitation. Yeah, it's, it's facilitating. Yeah, you're facilitating
Wendy Morgan: other
Tara Connaghn: Yeah. So it takes-
Wendy Morgan: what a session is for you ...
Tara Connaghn: it takes more energy. It takes a lot more thought. So I can't lose myself. I can't get into the flow because I'm in a different, it's a different, purpose.
so sometimes then when a per- a person does jump into the session and I know that the session's gonna be raised a couple of levels, you know, there's kind of a part of me that goes, "Ah, this is amazing. I [00:29:00] just wanna go up there." And so I don't ever wanna feel guilty about that 'cause I, that's what I need is a session sometimes, not all the time, but for me to have my ducks in a row where I am just, oh, this, the, the kind of session that I want everybody to experience, for me, that's the one.
But it's just if, if it's in flow for me and it's got the, you know, it's got the personalities that work well together and the music is, is a high quality, then to me, I love that as
Wendy Morgan: Yeah. And sometimes I'm very happy to go to a session where I absolutely know this is gonna be so far beyond me that I'm gonna be in listening mode or social chat, catch up, have fun mode. But I absolutely know I'm never gonna be playing. And sometimes for me, the only bit of frustration is where I'm in a session where I know I could access the tunes here, but, I don't know if they've already been played, and that's like a faux pas if you join in- Mm-hmm
and then you start a tune that they just played before you walked in the door. So you have to spend [00:30:00] an hour figuring that out, and then by that stage somebody comes in and the session goes. And you're like, "Well, I should've just played my one tune, and at least I'd be getting better this week. And, you know, maybe I'd get to play it faster next week."
But, like, this, the, the frustration for me is beginning to creep in, I think, as I become more accomplished, the, the frustration is creeping in because I know I could do more than I am possibly doing depending on- the amount of people, whether there's stools free, whether there's like a big circle or a small circle.
I don't know Tara from sessions at all. We didn't bond over the music. We bonded from the nights that sh- she wasn't playing, and I was like, "Why don't you play?
But we, we didn't, we didn't bond over the music at all, which is a big part of this whole kind of session etiquette is that you play tunes together and then you make friends. And I'm like- Mm ... or you don't make tunes and you don't make friends, and you're still outside the circle.
And I think nearly Tara- Mm ... is one of the very few people that [00:31:00] I've met, through music, but not from our shared experience. It's been on a night where Tara didn't wanna join in for whatever reason or chose not to. I couldn't, and then we met, we don't have that relationship of having nice tunes together, but we have a very deep appreciation, I think, in very different ways maybe, or just on a different stage.
Because I didn't grow up with it and Tara did, and yet we get on great. But that's a kind of a more of a personality and a respect thing than it actually is the music. Or it's- Mm-hmm ... a respect for the music maybe rather than actually I love playing with Tara, which is what most people seem to meet each other and kind of make a bond in a session.
Mm. Like, "Oh, I love playing with him." I'm like, "I don't love playing with Tara." So it's, it's, it's much more wider than just who you sit down and play with because it goes outside that group if people are in the group are willing to embrace that.
I actually kind [00:32:00] of feel almost sorry for them because they're always stuck with very like-minded or like-leveled people who can play like them, and they're actually missing out on a whole variety of life because they're, they're- Yeah ... stuck with like their friends or the people that they are in the circle, and Tara's not like that Which for me is, makes a big difference to the access to the music.
Tara Connaghn: Yeah.
My dad always said, "It doesn't cost anything to be nice." and so I just love connecting with people, regardless of what level of musici- musician they are, because they're just people. And as Randy says, there's so much to everybody, like, so much to learn.
So yeah, that, that's almost, like, the challenge for me in a session where I'm getting challenged. It's meeting people that's, like, I get so, I'm so curious. I'm like, "Oh, what does this person do? What is it?" And maybe not everybody's like that, so.
Wendy Morgan: 'Cause I think when the fiddle, for me, like, as a philosophy in life, like I do karate.
And when you, when you get on the mats, [00:33:00] you're, you're in training mode, and there's a lot of respect for the people with higher belts and lower belts than you. And you're maybe in teaching mode depending on who turns up on the night. Or you're maybe in learning mode. Or you're on an equal status night, and you get to do your stuff.
But for me, when you put away your fiddle case, everybody's equal. I think Tara does. But I don't think that a lot of people think when they put away their fiddle- And I never took mine out. And the session is like over, or it's the next day, or we're walking down the street, or we bump into each other in the post office or the cafe or the shop.
I don't think there's a lot of people who don't think we're equals, whereas I do. I just think you're amazing at fiddle and I'm not, but you're no better of a person than I am. And I keep coming back to where it is that Tara actually lives. Like Tara lives in the music, and that's what it is, and I keep coming back to visit for more.
I've considered moving to Donegal and stuff, but, for the rest of my whole life it's not gonna work for all those other bits. and I [00:34:00] love spending time there, but I'm so appreciative that I get to come back to where somebody else is actually, living it. Because for me, I'm only revisiting it.
the music, I'm not sure, we talked about loving the music, but I think it's more nearly loving what the music makes you feel. and it makes me feel enlivened and energized and like there's a whole other layer of life that I haven't discovered. and I love the energy and the flow, and I can recognize the freedom when people play it.
But, if I'm listening to other Irish music, I don't get the same feeling because I feel like it's not my music. Like that's different. Like that's a different part of the country, and I just don't really connect with the music. maybe it's just 'cause I don't know the tunes, but I keep going back to those other tunes.
So I think it's more about what it gives to me that brings me back. And I know Tara has lived away and moved home again, and I'm not surprised because I think the pull is, [00:35:00] is stronger when you've grown up in it and you have it. Whereas I didn't grow up in it, and I don't really have it, I'm just trying to get it, but like only bit by bit.
And I'm only kind of willing to, to do it in a one bit of my life. I'm not willing to give up my job, sell my house, and have it affect everything else so that I can get the music, but I do love dabbling in it.
Paula (Host): Closing remarks?
Tara Connaghn: I think the saying that Wendy had there, when we put away our fiddles, we're all equal, nothing tops that.
Paula (Host): That was a, it's a beautiful way to end it. I mean, between- Yeah ... the sailing, the surfing, the football pitch. I'm pretty sh- sure I heard a rugby pitch in there. You say scrum. and karate. Did I mention the karate?
Wendy Morgan: Yeah. I think- And my main thing is Scouts, actually. I didn't mention Scouts, but like I'm a jack of all trades and master of none.
And sometimes I think that the people who are the masters of the one- maybe [00:36:00] could be a little more cognizant of making sure their own pot gets filled enough that they don't mind sharing a bit and spilling it over to the people who are trying to be a jack of all trades and master of none. Mm-hmm.
But I don't know that it's any, it's a, it's not, it's no worse a way to live than to focus on one thing- Mm-hmm ... than it is to do 20 things.
Tara Connaghn: Like, I'm just thinking that was really what I was focused on when I was 16, when I really got bitten by the bug, as you say, Wendy.
I mean, that was all I wanted to do. I would move mountains to get to that thing. I was so hungry for it, I wanted it. and so that's maybe the difference, you know, this- Mm-hmm ... between the, the people who are kind of maybe more skilled and, and the people who are still learning.
Paula (Host): I don't know if everyone's built that way, though. I knew I wanted to be a writer from, like, I don't know, second grade, and I just kept that passion going forward and going forward. My husband isn't built like that. My husband wanted to try this thing and be unfocused and then party- Yeah. ... and then, and then go to school and then not go to school and [00:37:00] then try this and that and do, like, a thing.
And then, like, in his 40s, he discovered this love for being an artist. And he's really good, which really bothers me because- ... like, who fi- who finds a hidden talent in their 40s? Like, that's- Yeah ... just rude. But, It's
Tara Connaghn: so unfair ...
Paula (Host): But that's the thing, is that, like, yeah, I think it would be great if a lot of people decided who and what they wanted to be early. I just don't know if, like, that's everybody- Yeah ... and if they shouldn't have access because they came to it later on.
Wendy Morgan: But he's maybe a great artist because he did everything else.
Obviously- Oh ... there's a skill and a talent involved in actually expressing it, but he has maybe got a lot to express because he did a lot of things. So- Mm-hmm ... mm, I think. it's, I think it comes back down just at the end of it all to respect. Like- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... I try to be very respectful of the fact that I land into Donegal once a year for one week, and I know it's not all about me, and I try to listen in the sessions because I'm not [00:38:00] gonna session wreck.
But at the same time, it would be nice, like I remember saying to some, one person one time, and it really s- it really irked me, that, I said something about there being a slow session. It would be really nice, like, if there was a slow session, that the learners who are going to all the lessons, who aren't the accomplished, brilliant people who play at night, if they had somewhere to go and play together.
And this, very famous person absolutely slated it that there's no such thing as a slow session. It doesn't exist. There's only a session, and every session is different. And I was trying to explain that like, "Well, I don't know people to go and meet this week at a session who are at my kinda level."
And she was like, "That's... You're completely missing the point. You go to the session, you join in." I was trying to explain to her, "No, I'm not able to go this week to the session and join in. I've been trying that for 15 years, and it's way beyond me." but she was horrified that I would think that it would be nice to [00:39:00] organize a slow session, because first of all, sess- it was like a complete oxymoron to sessions don't get organized, and there's no such thing as having a slow one.
I was like, "Okay, a beginner's one, a learner's one." I didn't care what you called it, but I... It really to me made it feel even less accessible.
Tara Connaghn: I, I think they're a great idea so that people can get more comfortable, and then, you know, start getting better at what they're... Because it's... Like, I had my own slow session basically.
I kind of recorded sessions and I, when I was growing up, I put them on, on a hi-fi with big speakers, and I played along, and that was kind of like my learning session. And then I went to the sessions then. So it, you know, it's very hard to just go straight in and go, "What am I supposed to do?
What am I..." Like I- That's my mistake ... can't keep up. Yeah.
Wendy Morgan: I need your tapes.
Tara Connaghn: You need the tapes. Yeah.
Paula (Host): Well, and I mean, it's also like when you're taking a second language, like the best way to learn that language is to be immersed in
it's a lot different from being like in a Spanish classroom to going to Spain and living there for, or studying there for a year or [00:40:00] so.
the person who is immersed in it is gonna come back much more fluent than the person who studied a textbook. Mm-hmm. So I can understand. I, I think that there, there's something to explore there. Mm-hmm. Slow sessions. Yeah, I th- think
Tara Connaghn: they're great.
Paula (Host): Well, I really wanna, wanna thank you both for sitting with this today. I know friends can disagree, and sometimes that's hard, but I also think that it's what makes us interesting friends and not boring yes people. So- Yes ... thank you both with, for sitting in this session today, and I really appreciate it.
Wendy Morgan: Thank you.
Tara Connaghn: Thank you so much, Paula.