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Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.
Louisa: Hello!
And welcome to S G Squared.
Pastor Steve Gladen pulls from over 25
years of small group ministry experience
to encourage and equip listeners like
you to lead small group ministry.
So let's listen, and learn, together.
Speaker: Welcome to SG squared.
Steve Gladden on small groups.
Derek here with the Man of the Hour.
The man whose very initials
spell small groups.
Steve Gladden.
How are you my friend?
Speaker 2: Yeah, doing good.
It's a, it's a wintery time of the year.
Here we are in February.
Uh, but, uh, not as bad as what
other parts of the country have gone
through over the past month or so.
I cannot complain.
And, uh, I always giggle when
you, when you say my, my initials,
you know, spell what I do.
And it's a good thing my parents name
me Steve, because, you know, it's, uh,
other initials wouldn't have fit so well.
So it's pretty funny.
Speaker: I assume you're into
predestination, being that you
were given the initials sg it
was like it was prophesying
your future small group pastor.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Coming from a home that didn't even
follow Christ, that is really very,
uh, prophetic and in many, many ways.
But it's a, it's a giggle.
It's funny when I look back at it.
And so it's funny,
Speaker: and it's kind of funny.
You, you act like you're suffering
there in, uh, sunny Southern California
in the winter here in February.
What's the, what's the temperature?
Uh, ballpark.
Speaker 2: You know, we just
had a cold spell come in.
So we're in the high sixties.
So literally last week we were in
the mid seventies and I was just like
going, oh my gosh, this is so wonderful.
So
Speaker: the people listening to
us now in Alaska and Minnesota
are just like, not happy.
Speaker 2: Help, help, help.
Speaker: So, uh, this far removed
from the national championship game,
we're talking college football here.
I gotta ask, have you recovered, Steve,
that your team wasn't playing in it?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Uh, that's a hard no.
But if anybody had to win, and for
those of you, I know that Derek and
I are much more immersed in college
football than anybody, uh, else
that probably listens to this show.
Uh, but we still love you and we're, we're
glad that you're along for the journey.
But it it, if we had to have
somebody, here's my Constellation
prize for the Buckeyes.
The only two teams they lost
to were Miami and uh, Indiana.
So the two people win the
national championship.
So if you had to have two losses,
good, two losses to have, if
you wanna go with it that way.
But oh my goodness, the story behind.
Indiana and everything Kurt ti did.
I have a bunch of Indiana fans that
are just like peppering me, uh,
not with the most nicest text all
through the game, but that's okay.
They deserve it.
They can have fun with it and all
that, but it's just crazy of how,
uh, well they've come along and
their fan base and everything.
It's just so many kudos and it, it
actually lays into a lot of what
we're gonna talk about in this show.
But, uh, it.
It.
One of the things I want you to focus
on is, this is one of the few times
you have to go to the show notes.
If you have not read the story behind
the story on Fer, Fernando, Mendoza,
and Everyth, everything he went through,
all the persecution, all that stuff.
Go to the show notes.
You have got to read it.
It is probably one of the most
inspiring stories that I've read,
especially as we're taking the
small group network on its own.
I was reading that, just
going, oh my goodness.
And one of the traits of a
leader, you're gonna hear about
it, that we're gonna talk about.
But I mean, his tenacity to stand
back up in the midst of, you know,
adversity is just unbelievable.
What, what, what was your take on it, man?
Did you, did you sit there and Husky
Nation and just go, I hate you,
Speaker: you know, as a, as a fellow
fanatical fan for my own team.
Too, man.
This was the next best thing
was having Indiana win.
This is one of the greatest sports
stories they're saying of all time.
One of the greatest compacts, uh, an
Indiana team that was perennial the
doormat of college football, like the
worst losing record of all teams, um,
hires a no-name coach who brings in
a bunch of no-name players from a way
lower division that nobody wanted.
They go on in one year to
dismantle every power team and
win the national championship.
And like you said, the quarterback
Mendoza, this guy, nobody wanted him.
This coach saw something
in him, saw a fighter.
He goes on to win the Heisman and is
now gonna be the number one draft pick.
This is nuts.
Speaker 2: It it, it is crazy.
But what, what a story it is for us.
'cause so often we, you know, it's
nice that he's a believer too.
And, um, and we, we hear so often
and we reflect in our own lives, you
know, how we're not worthy of it, we
can't do it, and things like that.
And it, it was just amazing to see
him rise from all the, the, the
naysayers that he had to do it.
So isn't it just like, uh, Indiana,
who put out the movie Hoosiers
that will now put out the movie I,
I, I can't even do their, their.
Who, who Hoosiers thing.
But
Speaker: the Hoosiers version.
Football part two.
Right.
Speaker 2: My goodness.
It's super crazy.
But Les, we digress.
We're gonna pull you through this whole
Mendoza story all through this show.
Uh, 'cause we're gonna be talking about,
uh, leadership and well, one of the things
we wanna do is talk about five ways we
can, uh, we can all learn to lead better.
We're all leaders on this, uh, whoever's
listening to this podcast, we're all
leaders to some degree, but there's
ways that we can learn to lead better.
And one of the things I wanna focus
on is a little bit more on the soft
skills versus a lot of what you
read in a lot of the leadership
books, uh, that are out there and.
When we look at the Mendoza recovery,
and, uh, when you read that story
in the show notes of everything
he overcame, you'll see so many
of these five things inside of it.
So it's exciting that when
we're with that, it's, it's
one way to take us through.
So, um, and like Derek,
we've all had, we've all sat
under a lot of great leaders.
Um, you know, when I look at Rick, when
I look at Andy, when I look at so many of
the other lead pastors I've been under.
So much of these points
just exude from them.
And when you really distill down a
lot of the, the great leaders from
the average leaders, it's, they
usually have two great traits in them.
And it's humility and it's
dependence, uh, obviously on God.
But we'll unpack that a little bit more,
but Derek didn't know if you had anything
else to add to that as we jump in.
Speaker: No, I'm excited about this topic.
Five ways we can all lead better,
because there's always something
better we can improve on.
Right.
And, uh, especially knowing,
um, yeah, some of the, the
leaders that you've sat under.
I'm excited to, uh, have you
break this down for us because
I wanna level up in 2026.
So let's, let's jump into this.
Speaker 2: So let's, let's go with
number one and then, uh, Derek,
you'll help navigate us through this.
But, you know, a, as I said, just to re
recap this, one of the things I want to
do is kind of focus this when you, uh,
read the story of, um, uh, Mendoza and
everything that he did and overcame,
there's so many things that when
Christ works through us the same way.
And as you lead, there's many hard
skills that you need in leadership,
but there's also some soft skills.
So I wanna walk through those five,
uh, that, that I've just said.
I've gleaned from, uh, my, my
leaders ahead of me, uh, the ones
that I've been with, but also from,
uh, reading this story and, uh,
hearing, uh, everything behind it.
But number one is own your
mistakes and your weaknesses.
And one of the things that is beautiful
about when you're working in kingdom work.
Is, uh, that you know that there is no
other perfect person other than Jesus.
So you're gonna have mistakes
and you're gonna have weaknesses.
That's what we're just all bound with.
And when you sit through that and
under and you really unpack that
and understand it, you know that.
No one is going into their
day as a follower of Christ.
No one is going into their day saying,
how can I make somebody's life miserable?
I don't wake up and go, okay, how can
I make Derrick's life more miserable?
Although I tend to do that because
I always have to say, Hey, can you
send me the link one more time?
Can you help me out?
I know I sent you the notes,
but can you send 'em back to me?
Uh, all these great things on, on, on the,
on the show that you guys just don't see.
There's always mistakes, but
there's a couple keys that
you, you gotta learn from it.
And one of 'em is, is just
being able to walk through and
saying, will you forgive me?
Now, that's a whole lot
different than saying, I'm sorry.
Because when you look at the
psychological pieces and don't have
time to unpack this, but there's a huge
difference between just going up to
somebody and saying, Hey, I'm sorry.
Then going up to them and
saying, Hey, will you forgive me?
Because there's a part in there
that you're getting their buy-in.
Their participation with that.
And what you've gotta know is that
you're, you're gonna have mistakes,
you're gonna have weaknesses.
And when I look at the leaders
that have been around me.
When I've looked at the times
where, uh, I saw interviews with,
um, you know, with, uh, Alberto,
not Alberto, that's his brother.
Um, help me Derek with his first name.
Um, I have no clue.
Fernando.
Phew.
With Fernando Mendoza, when I saw
his things is that when he, when he
blow us, blew it, he always owned it.
And you'll see that in the
mark of all of our biblical
leaders too, that are out there.
They're just gonna blow it.
And, and, and I'm gonna blow it.
You're gonna blow it.
But what a great leader does, and this is
the beautiful part about soft leadership
skills, is that when you'll do these
five things, what you'll see is that.
People won't be more like, oh,
I don't wanna be with them, or I
don't wanna follow them, but it'll
actually endear you more to them.
Oh, you'll be more endeared to them.
They'll be more endeared to
you because of these things.
Derek, can you read the scripture?
I think it's in one Corinthians 15.
Speaker: Yeah.
First Corinthians 59, um, NLT says, um,
for I am the least of all the apostles.
In fact, I'm not even worthy to
be called an apostle after the
way I persecuted God's church.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be interesting
'cause we, we'll get the back half
of this verse on the next point.
But, uh, the thing that I love about
this is that even Paul who wrote
two thirds of the New Testament, he
realized that he just made mistakes.
And so often we, we have, when you make
a mistake, you have two ways you can go.
You can bellyache in it and just say,
woes me and just be, or you can be
frustrated or mad, or I can't believe I
did this, or different pieces like that.
But the more appropriate thing
is to be able just to own it
and being able to say, you know.
I've got mistakes, but I'm willing to
be forgiven by God and move beyond.
And obviously the more people that you,
the bigger the ripple of the mistakes, the
more you've gotta be able to reach out to
people and build the trust back with them.
Speaker: This is such a great point.
Um, you know, I think it's our
natural human inclination to
not want to do this, right.
We don't want to admit we're weak.
We don't want to admit I messed up,
but the secret sauce in this one is
how it actually endears people to you.
Um, when you're just humble
enough to say, you know what?
I really blew that, uh, or apologize
to someone, or just say, you know what?
I could have done this better.
It's amazing how it really brings people's
walls down and they just see, man,
you're a real human, uh, who owned it,
and it actually draws 'em closer to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so true.
All right, little, uh,
number two right here.
We're gonna talk about, uh, righteousness,
show righteousness and compassion.
And, uh, with this, there's a couple
things that you gotta realize is when
you look at righteousness, when you
look at compassion there, there's strong
forms of what humility is all about.
And humility is a choice.
And kinda like what Derek was just
referencing on the other point is that
it's one thing to know you made a mistake.
It's another thing to own it.
And to, to lead in the right way.
And part of what we, we realize is
that everything we do is because.
God has ordained it.
God has blessed it in giving you the
talents to be able to do it, and he is
right there with you in the Holy Spirit.
In the same way, it's just like
with the principle of giving, we
realize that God owns everything.
That's why we're willing to,
to give our 10% back to him.
Even though, you know, he could
have said 40 or 30 or 25%.
He said 10.
And so, you know, we do that because
we realize he owns everything.
But in the same way, everything
that you are being blessed with.
It's because of God.
Now there's a piece of this as we're
we're gonna read in the scripture there.
Matter of fact, Derek, if you could
read that, I'm gonna go back up to
it, but can you read the back half
of that one Corinthians 15 on one 10?
Speaker: Yep.
It says, but who?
But whatever I am, it is all because
God poured out his special favor
on me and not without results.
For I have worked harder than
any of the other apostles yet.
It was not I, but God who was
working through me by his grace.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and part of what I
wanted to bring up in this is being
able to understand that there is a
balance that you have to strike because
you do have to show righteousness.
You do have to show compassion.
That's part of a great leader, but
there's the part there that you realize
like Paul did, that God poured out
everything to you, but also that Paul
is right there to say, Hey, I'm working
as hard as possible to make it happen.
And I'm always saying this to my son.
I'm always saying, you know.
Do your best.
Let God do the rest.
And in the same way when we're coming
about this is that you wanna be
righteous and you wanna be compassionate,
but you wanna do everything within
your power to make it happen.
And understanding that it, it's
only because of God that it's there.
And I know this is a little bit of a, it's
not as much science in this particular
talk that we're doing, uh, on this, on
this show, but it's a lot more of the
art and the finesse of how you do that.
Because, you know, too much
compassion and then, you know, people
will walk over you and there's a,
there's a fine balance of trying to
understand, you know, I understand
God's given me everything to do.
I understand that, you know,
humility is a choice, but at the
same point, it's understanding that
God's called me to a mission and
that what I need to be a part of.
Speaker: Yeah, I think this scripture
is so powerful because it's got,
like you're saying, uh, it's Paul's
saying, um, I've worked harder than
anybody else, but at the end of
the day, it's only by his grace.
It's only because of him
that I can even do this.
So, uh, that is so, uh, powerful for
us to remember for our leadership.
Speaker 2: Number three,
develop self-awareness.
This is the one I have to put a
star beside all the time because.
I, I, I, I try to work on this so much,
but so often I can be the most unaware
person of things that are going around me.
And developing self-awareness
is super important.
Now, part of that comes from being
able to give the permission to people
to be able to speak into your life.
Uh, one of the things I've always told my
staff every time, if you, if, if I've hurt
you, don't sit on it and don't wait on it.
Because I need to, I always use the
analogy, I go, uh, I'm like a puppy.
And, uh, if you don't, if you
don't discipline me in the moment
of where the, the infraction comes
on, I've totally forgotten about
it, and it won't sink in as well.
So I'm always telling people,
Hey, you can nicely stop me.
Don't, I mean, do your best not to
embarrass me, but if I've done something,
you know, make sure that you, you stop me.
And I give people permission all the
time in team meetings, in one-on-ones
or in anything to be able to come
back and be able to say, Hey, that,
that kind of hurt me, or I wish you
wouldn't have said it quite like that.
And I'd learned from that.
And that's part of what.
A great leader is all about
is that we gotta, you know,
understand self-awareness.
Now, there's a couple things that
you gotta do is one, you have to
realize everybody's got blind spots.
And part of what we've gotta do is we
gotta understand what are our blind
spots and how do we, how can we have
people around us to help overcome them?
But another thing is using tools.
And one of the things I used, uh, all
the times when I had teams was a, a 360.
Man, I can't remember what it was called.
It was a corporate tool that we
used, but it was a, it's basically
a 360, uh, awareness tool so that
people could anonymously share what
they, what they thought about you as,
your strength, as your weaknesses,
things you gotta improve on.
With all those pieces.
And, uh, one of the things that I've
always had to learn is that not only
do I have to keep on doing things like
that, that tool, but also understanding
that I always had to go to people and
invite them into that, that that circle
I could handle to be able to say, what
do you see in me and how can I improve?
And so I've also learned that you've
also gotta be able to understand.
There, there's an authority.
Uh, because I had been at Saddleback
for so many decades and because I was
an elder of the church and I was on the
management team, when I would lead teams,
it was hard for people, even if I had a
friendship with them to speak back at me.
And that's, that's where that
constant invitation putting
in, uh, tools that are, um.
You know, uh, or they're not
exposed of who's giving the feedback
to you and things like that.
It's very anonymous.
And so it's one of those
things that you gotta do.
So one of the great things is, you
know, develop that self-awareness.
Derek is there.
You got a, we got a SCR scripture
for this one too, don't we?
Speaker: Yeah, but first I was gonna say
those staff that were hesitant to, uh,
share, you know, feedback with you, they
were just, they were worried that you'd
become Kurt Signi on 'em with those eyes.
You're fired.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he does rule with an arm.
A very strong arm.
So, uh, that's, but hey, he,
he's a different kind of coach.
Speaker: For those who don't know
what I'm talking about, I'm talking
about the head coach of Indiana,
the team we've been talking about.
Their coach is kind of
like scary in a way.
And there's all these memes about the
faces he makes and the eyes and, and
so, uh, that's what I was envisioning.
But let me read the scripture.
Uh, Psalm 1 39, 23 and
24 says, search me God.
Know my heart, test me and
know my anxious thoughts.
Point out anything in me that
offends you and lead me along
the path everlasting life.
And Steve, let me just say, I loved
the little point you shared about
how you would, uh, often give your
team's permission to, if I, if I've
offended you, please let me know.
And coming to me.
I think that's so critical
to give people permission.
Um, because, and they know,
hey, uh, he said I could.
So, Hey Steve, I just
need to tell you this.
Speaker 2: You know, it, it is one of
those things too when you're, when you're
talking about the, the, those aspects
and everything, uh, and even about Kurt
Signi right there before the, before you
read the scripture, uh, sometimes people
just have a have a mean resting face.
And so if you do, if you're not a natural
smiler, you gotta get to know people.
And, and again, that could be in your
blind spots if you like going, Hey,
if I'm resting, smile, uh, with that.
So you can be more approachable.
But number four, give credit to
others and the crowns to Jesus.
And uh, I don't know how
many sports interviews I've
seen, but when people don't.
Give the credit to other people because
when you, when you've played football,
when you've, uh, coached football
or any other sport around the world,
you know, it's a team sport and there
are people who carry the banner and
they're, they're like the premier
player, but it, it is all about a team.
And one of the aspects I loved about
this Indiana team is that, like
Derek said in the beginning, there
wasn't a lot of superstars on it.
They all realize the power of
team and the power of each other
and him being able to do that.
And I think for us in ministry, it's
very important for us always to say
who is before me and who is around me.
Always build on the people before you.
Uh, I know when I came in to lead the
small group ministry, I know a friend of
mine named John Baker, was the guy before
me, and he did things different than me.
But I also realized well enough that the
number of groups that he raised up were
all before me, and I'm, I was starting.
Not from ground zero wasn't starting
from third base, but I sure wasn't
starting from ground zero in in
what I was doing and I always wanted
to remember who was before me.
And I know if you can just think
in your ministry, if you wanna
lead far better in 2026 than you
did in 25, is go over the top.
And, uh, to, to recognize the people
before you and the people around you.
And, and with that too is going, how
can I also lift up Jesus' name even
more ironically, sometimes in the
church circle, uh, he's the last one
to get the credit and we wanna always
make sure that Jesus gets the credit
for everything that's a, a part of us.
So it's a three tier process with that.
Speaker: Well said.
And let me read the scripture
one Peter five, four.
It says, and when the Great Shepherd
appears, you will receive a crown
of never ending glory and honor.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
And for those of you that don't
know this particular scripture,
it's one of the verses that's one
of my life verses and um, it, it's
one of the few places in scripture.
That tells us that there will
be a reward for those that are
leading and every one of us.
If you've got someone behind you,
you're leading them and it's gonna
be important for you to understand.
Your dues gonna come, and so
use the time on Earth as a great
opportunity to be able to, uh, you
know, build up the people around you.
It's, it's a great piece.
Encouragement and credit are
beautiful ways to be able to build
those up, and especially the people.
That are behind the scenes.
I know that for us, I was always going
outta my way to, to thank the people
that worked on the technology side of
everything we did, because you know,
when you're so web based and you're
so app based that you know, you look
like the star because everything's
easier and better, but they're the
ones working the long hours doing
all the testing that nobody sees.
And to be honest, nobody
really even knows their name.
And so this scripture right
here is really great because.
The Great Shepherd will appear
and there will be a time when
you'll get what's due you.
I would just go to say I would err heavily
on the side of, you know, working with
others and giving others the credit.
Speaker: Well said, very powerful.
And last but not least, number five
is confess your dependence on God.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Yeah, this is part of it, and so much
of it is, is really based on where,
where you're at in your quiet time.
Um, this is one of the things that
you're, where your quiet time can set
the trajectory of, of your ministry.
Uh, and I know everyone's got a different
form of quiet time, and sometimes
we feel guilty about it because.
We don't have our bible, our concordance,
our journal, our pen, and we're up at
four in the morning till five in the
morning doing, doing your quiet time.
Everyone has a different mojo
with it, but I think behind the
heart of it is that lifestyle that
we have a dependence upon God.
Uh, I know that as we're, um, reshaping
and reforming the small group network.
I've had to have so much dependence on
God, not trying to get ahead of him,
not trying to be behind him, trying
to be perfectly in sync with them.
And it's been super important that, uh,
in my quiet times, in my times where panic
overcomes me or anxiety overcomes me,
or, uh, there's such different things.
Or even when, you know, success
comes before me and things starts
to fall into place and that.
There's that dependence upon God
that's super, super important to
have, and so much of it happens in,
in who you are behind the scenes,
things that nobody can measure, no
one can know or anything like that.
It's not about how much you can journal,
it's not about how much scripture you
can memorize, how many times you can
read the Bible through in, in a year.
Those are all great disciplines
and wonderful, I'm not knocking
any of those, but it's in the,
in the soul of who you are.
That's what sets the trajectory of
your confessing, your dependence.
Speaker: Lament.
Lamentations 3 55 and 56 says,
but I call on your name, Lord,
from deep within the pit.
You heard me when I cried.
Listen to my pleading,
hear my cry for help.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
And that's a beautiful part of,
you know, that he always hears us.
And that's what I take, take solace in.
And so as we kind of wrap up this,
this show and, uh, uh, you know,
in a, in a strange way, Derek, I'm
taking so much more of the lead and
you know, I'll let you wrap it up.
But as we, you know, finish up this,
this show, I, I want to go back
through these, these five points
and, and understand, again, I wanna
encourage you read the story from, uh.
Fernando, uh, Mendoza and just,
you know, his story of his journey
in life because he is a good kid.
That is, oh, he, you know,
he's not perfect in any way.
Uh, but you know, he, he leans
on God and he, and he loves to
give the battle to the Lord.
But I think these five things
are there five soft skills for
ways for you to lead better.
One is.
Own your mistakes and weaknesses.
Think as we go from 25 into, you
know, 26, we're deep into, uh, Q1.
You know, how can I
own my mistakes better?
Number two, how can I show
righteousness and compassion more?
How can I lead with that?
Number three, develop
self-awareness and who you are
and what what you can be about.
Number four, give credit to others.
And the crowns to Jesus.
You know, how can I keep deferring to more
and understanding who I'm building upon?
And number five, confess
your dependence on God.
And this is something that is
way behind the scenes way in
the dark between you and God.
Derek, I'll give it to you to wrap it up.
Speaker: Yeah, that's five ways
we can all lead better in 2026.
And I would just end by saying
that, man, these can apply from.
You as a, just a human being doing
these, you're gonna have more success
in life just dealing with people.
Um, or if it's you, uh, as a small group
leader, a small group point person, right?
Uh, owning all these five
and growing in these five.
Are gonna help you with your
small groups, with, um, the small
group leaders you're instructing.
Um, people are going to be
drawn to you as you own those
weaknesses and show compassion.
Um, as we develop self-awareness
and let people have permission, uh,
to speaking to our lives and giving
credit to Jesus, and obviously
confessing our dependence on God.
So good.
Thanks for that, Steve and everybody.
Definitely click the show
notes, uh, in this episode to
read the, uh, Mendoza story.
Very inspiring.
Speaker 2: Bless everybody.
And just, uh, these are not,
these are not intuitive.
They sometimes be counterintuitive
to leadership, but dig
into 'em and God bless.
Speaker: Thanks everybody.
See you next month.
Louisa: Thank you for listening!
And don't forget to subscribe
wherever you listen to podcasts.
If you'd like to go deeper and get
more resources or join the small
group network, just head over
to small group network dot com.
We'll see you next time!