The Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 2 (1986)

In 1986, Tobe Hooper returns to his own creation, cranking the chainsaw speed to “unhinged,” and swapping the original’s documentary-style dread for neon-lit chaos, pitch-black humor, and a surprising amount of chainsaw-related enthusiasm. The gang's all here from the original Texas Chainsaw: Leatherface, Drayton Sawyer, and even the corpse of the hitchhiker, affectionally referred to as "Nubbins." Add a new sibling into the mix with scene stealing, Chop-Top, played by Bill Moseley, a vengeful Lieutenant "Lefty" Enright, played by Dennis Hopper, and Caroline Williams delivering a powerful performance as the criminally underrated, final girl and small-town DJ, Stretch. What is this blatant display of mindfuckery? Why it's The Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 2, of course. The buzz is back!

Hosts: Bart Shannon, Lindsey Roberts
Guest: Joey Carr

Music provided by MKE. Check out more of his music at detectivemusic.com and Detective on Spotify.

Creators and Guests

Host

Bart Shannon

Bart Shannon is a film and commercial producer/director and a diehard horror fan. His 2023 documentary feature film, Show Business is My Life, But I Can't Prove It, is available on all streaming platforms.

Host

Lindsey Roberts

Lindsey Roberts is a film, commercial and theatre actress, who has appeared in over 20 films including Hustle and Flow and Craig Brewer's breakthrough film, The Poor and Hungry. Her extensive theatre roles have included Velma in Chicago, Tanya in Mamma Mia, Nancy in Oliver and multiple years as Pan in Peter Pan.

Guest

Joey Carr

Composer

MKE

Hear more of MKE's music at https://detectivemusic.com/ and Detective on Spotify.

What is Die Laughing?

You'd be hard pressed to find a more divisive sub-genre of horror than horror-comedy. Those who hate it, really, really hate it. But for those of us who love horror as much as we love comedy, there is something truly special about a film that manages to combine these two genres into a perfect blend.

On the Die Laughing podcast, hosts Bart Shannon, Lindsey Roberts and a weekly special guest, take a tour through some of the best and worst entries in the horror comedy field!

speaker-0 (00:02.156)
Lindsey, we're back.

speaker-1 (00:03.992)
We're back! my gosh, I've missed everybody, I've missed you.

speaker-0 (00:06.99)
I know I've missed you too. We've been off for several weeks and now we're back We're gonna fill that void and I'm very excited because we have our second franchise It was actually it's a it's sequel So it wasn't a franchise yet and all I can say about it is the buzz is back

speaker-1 (00:23.628)
The buzz is bad.

speaker-0 (00:26.39)
and also something else is back.

speaker-1 (00:28.386)
Yes, it sure is.

speaker-0 (00:30.872)
We have our first returning guest, our first two-timer.

speaker-1 (00:35.928)
That's right, very exciting. Welcome to another episode of Die Laughing.

speaker-0 (00:37.784)
then let's do it.

speaker-0 (00:42.712)
you

speaker-0 (00:56.334)
Yeah, Lindsey. I know we say this every week, and I'm not saying that we ever lie about it when we say it that we're excited, because we don't. I am fucking giddy. Me too.

speaker-1 (00:58.103)
Yeah, Bart.

speaker-1 (01:07.34)
No, we don't.

speaker-1 (01:12.738)
been all fucking weak. Like one of my favorite horror comedies and one of my favorite guests.

speaker-0 (01:19.022)
It is fan fucking tastic. First of all, let's address, we had to skip a few weeks. One of our guests had a family member that had a heart attack and so we had to postpone, but the perfect guest to fill in that extra gap because he's coming with extra knowledge, extra oomph, extra entertainment. He's just extra. And the movie we have today, you know, let's...

speaker-1 (01:26.018)
Yeah, sorry. Love you guys.

speaker-0 (01:47.906)
Go ahead and let's just get to this fucking movie because it has such a special place in my heart and in my youth and my history. Lindsay Roberts, I feel like I've already said too much. Why don't you tell the beautiful people at home what our movie is this week?

speaker-1 (02:08.014)
will happily do that. We are watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2, 1986. Toby Hooper.

speaker-0 (02:19.374)
Toby Hooper returning to the characters which he created and taking them into a comedy realm. But this movie, so nostalgic, so many cultural references, so many quotes that just pop in my head on a weekly basis. many actors that became somebody because of this movie. And we'll talk about that a little later. But yeah.

speaker-1 (02:38.829)
Well, huh?

speaker-0 (02:45.698)
Toby Hooper, 1986, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Part 2. I saw it at Thanksgiving. My daughter and I went and it at the Hollywood Theater with a band called the Turkey Necks, an all-cramps cover band that opened for it. And it was fun. So much fun to see it in 4K on the big screen.

speaker-1 (03:02.656)
I would love to see this on the big screen. I was trying to think about the last time I saw it before rewatching it this week. I mean, it's been in Jackson's lifetime. You know how everything is just equated to whether or not it's been in my son's lifetime. So it's been in my son's lifetime at some point. So fairly recently, right? The second one I will always go back and watch, but I don't go back and watch the first one.

speaker-0 (03:26.146)
Yeah, same. I only watch the first one maybe every decade because I've seen it enough. But the second one, I always appreciate some nuances. I just like revisiting it. Texas Chainsaw Massacre, part two. I'm so excited to talk about it. Let's bring on our guests. Let's get into this thing. We have our first returning guest. And I couldn't think of a more perfect person. He was on for an episode of Return of the Living Dead.

speaker-2 (03:43.736)
Do it!

speaker-1 (03:44.363)
Yeah

speaker-0 (03:55.576)
that we did. We all had a blast with it. We all love that movie so much. I think we mentioned at the time, maybe you can come back and do Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2. We say a lot of things at our age that never come to fruition and we mean it, but it still doesn't happen. But this one it did. So please welcome back our guest, Joey Carr. Joey.

speaker-2 (04:16.172)
Hey guys, thank you so much for bringing me back. I guess the first returning guest. That's such an honor. Such an honor to be back here with you two and talking about one of the more bizarre horror comedies maybe to ever exist on a national release. Because wow, what a wacky, wacky movie we're about to deep dive in.

speaker-1 (04:37.038)
Mm-hmm, for sure.

speaker-0 (04:38.52)
Yes, we are. There are so many scenes in this movie that are brilliant that I will die on the hill for how brilliant the scenes are. And then the very next scene will be a scene where you're just like, why would you put this scene in a movie?

speaker-1 (04:52.664)
You

speaker-0 (04:54.73)
If there is a definition in the dictionary for uneven, it would be this film.

speaker-1 (05:00.589)
Yeah.

speaker-2 (05:01.154)
I'm glad we're kind of agreeing on that from the outset, because yeah, this movie is all over the-

speaker-1 (05:05.613)
Okay.

speaker-0 (05:06.262)
Acting wise, storyline, the scenes, the writing, all of it.

speaker-1 (05:11.79)
Yeah. Yeah. But honestly, I think that's why it works.

speaker-0 (05:15.352)
You know, I don't know. The great scenes work because they're great. Yeah. Imagine if some of those bad scenes were replaced by more great scenes.

speaker-1 (05:17.96)
Ha ha ha!

speaker-1 (05:26.878)
By better seeds. Right.

speaker-0 (05:28.974)
By scenes that made sense. What a movie it would be, but I don't give a fuck. Let's just talk quickly, Joey, before we jump into this about your new role. You are now one of the co-executive directors of the Indy Memphis Film Festival that took last year off and now it's back. And you and Alicia George are now taking the reins and bringing back such a storied, fun, well-put-together festival back in existence.

speaker-2 (05:54.688)
Yeah, it's a big undertaking. I worked for Indie Memphis since 2015 until last year when I left around the time that this inevitable pause needed to happen. There was a desperate need to kind of have leadership step in that could help the organization find some sustainability. And so that's kind of what the organization hadn't working on while I was away. And so Alicia George ended up stepping in as well. And at the time,

I was kind considering just coming back in a smaller capacity, but once she and I started talking, it just became very clear that like we played off of each other super well. Like she has a lot of development and fundraising experience while I can kind of focus more on operations and strategy. And yeah, it's been great so far. You know, this is a challenge to bring this institution back, but there is so much goodwill in the community.

and people are so supportive of wanting it. And now that we've gone a year without it existing, people really understood, you know, this means a lot to the community, this means a lot to the city, so we need to rally around it and try to help out however we can. So I'm thrilled, I'm excited. mean, film festival community, film festival world is so important to cinema, to independent filmmakers, you know, and audiences obviously too. And so...

you know, without them, there's a significant lack of discovery that people can have because you're only getting to see the things that, you know, your local theater chain might be programming and sometimes that's not the most interesting or risk-taking work. And so, yeah, we're just thrilled to be back and supporting Memphis filmmakers as well. There's so many great Memphis filmmakers that are doing work and those that are kind of coming up. So, yeah, I could probably talk for two hours about all of the exciting stuff we've got planned, so.

just happy to be a part of it and putting my experience to use.

speaker-1 (07:45.076)
You and Alicia are like the wonder twins. mean, it's, is a perfect combination, running the ship.

speaker-2 (07:52.942)
Thank you, I appreciate that.

speaker-0 (07:54.72)
As Indy Memphis has proven in its history, Memphis deserves a film festival and can support a film festival and nurtures a film festival and the film festival nurtures the up and coming filmmakers in Memphis. So glad to have it back, glad to have both of you guys leading that charge and yeah, very excited about it.

speaker-1 (08:12.984)
Big congrats.

speaker-2 (08:14.062)
Thank you. Thank you.

speaker-0 (08:15.694)
Indeed. On to why you're here. Tell me a little bit about your history with this movie.

speaker-2 (08:23.138)
Well, this movie came out when I was three years old.

speaker-0 (08:26.668)
Yet another reminder of how old Bart is.

speaker-2 (08:28.632)
That was exactly why I said it. But, I started watching horror movies when I was like six or seven years old. My uncle was a big horror fan. He started showing me stuff at a young age and I always kind of like, I would get creeped out by stuff, but I always knew from a very young age what I was watching wasn't real. So it was very easy for me to just like get into the story, get into it and not like take it home with me or traumatize me or any, you know, anything like that. However,

There are exceptions to that rule at a young age and that one of those big exceptions was the original Texas chainsaw massacre because my cousin showed it to me, this would have been like 1991, and it was just a VHS tape that he had. I wasn't super aware of it. I think I'd maybe heard something about it at some point, but I watched the original on a grainy VHS tape and was absolutely terrified. I mean, I'd already seen a lot of horror, but this one really bothered me because it felt real.

It felt like an actual event occu-

speaker-1 (09:26.158)
Yeah, recorded. You absolutely feel like you're a voyeur watching this occur that right that movie absolutely has that exactly terrifying

speaker-2 (09:37.07)
And I recall after that just, you know, browsing the video stores, right? And looking at the horror section as I was prone to do and seeing the famous Breakfast Club style cover for Texas Chance On 2. And I remember being terrified of that cover because I remember thinking to myself as a kid, maybe not in these exact way, but like looking back, like, why do they look like they're having fun? Why do these characters look like this is a joke?

This is not a joke. The first film was horrifying. This isn't funny. So like that upset me more because I was thinking, why are these characters looking like they're having such a great time and being so playful when what they do is not playful? And so I did not seek that movie out for a long time until I was probably in my teens, like maybe late teens, that I finally actually sit down and watch it and then saw what absurd nonsense it really was. And so that kind of took me aback because I don't think I was ready for

that kind of comedy, wanted more of just the visceral, strange, deeply upsetting, like, verite style that that first film has. And so it took me a while to kind of like come around on this movie because I just wanted a terror experience. And that's obviously not what this film sets out to do. so once, and I can understand why at the time it was not super well received because that's what audiences were wanting, but that's not where Tobe Hooper's career was going. So we'll probably talk about that too.

speaker-0 (11:05.08)
What about you, Lindsay? When do you recall this movie?

speaker-1 (11:08.686)
I the first one first and I was completely and utterly horrified. It scared the daylights out of me and I don't think I slept for I don't even know how long. I think I just finally fell asleep last year. I was young. So when I decided to watch the second one, it was because a friend was like, it's actually not anything like the first one. I was like, I kind of like that they took this other direction, you know, because I love it.

I loved it upon first viewing and I think I've seen it probably three or four times before watching it for this.

speaker-0 (11:45.256)
I read about the soundtrack to this in Fangoria. So I bought the soundtrack first before I saw the movie and fucking love that soundtrack. It is filled with 80s gold. It is. listen to that soundtrack, still have it. So that's it. This is the movie we're talking about. I think it is divisive. There are people that fucking hate it. And then there are those of us that love it. And even though we see its flaws, we can still appreciate it for the brilliance that it does have in it.

speaker-1 (11:55.49)
Soundtrack's great. Yeah.

speaker-1 (12:14.318)
In fact, when we have guests on, Bart every time was like, I'm throwing in Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2, somebody's going to pick it. Nobody. Nobody was picking it. They're like, no, I hate that. And I'm like, what is wrong with you people? And so when you were on last and you were like, that's the one I want to do next, I was like, OK.

speaker-2 (12:31.086)
I don't blame people. mean, it is still a confusing experience. And Return of the Living Dead in a way, I'm sure there are probably earlier examples, but I can't think of any on a mainstream level that made sequels that were comedic versions of the original horrifying film. Like the original film is both Night of Living Dead, which Return of the Living Dead you can debate is a sequel-ish thing. You listen to that episode to get into that. this and...

speaker-1 (12:34.12)
It is. I get it.

speaker-2 (12:59.49)
Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2, like they're diametrically opposed to the original versions of those movies and they're trying intentionally because I think those filmmakers know we're not gonna be able to up the stakes of the originals. And so making it comedic, you could argue that's kind of a cop-out in a way to try to take it in a totally different tonal direction or you can embrace it and say, know, okay, I get what they're going for and then just have a good time with it. But.

It is interesting that around this mid-80s era, people started looking back at their original work, I guess, and just making very bold decisions with their sequels.

speaker-0 (13:36.974)
Return of the Living Dead, 85, this one 86, Evil Dead 2, 87. Let's dive in. As always, let's watch the trailer and we've chosen the Vinegar Syndrome trailer instead of the original trailer. This is a little more modernized. The original trailer is mostly a VO and shots of the saw, closeups of the saw being oiled, things like that. So let's watch the trailer to Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Part 2.

speaker-0 (14:07.854)
You know why I'm here. Killsites have been clustered all over northeast Texas the last two years.

think I was talking to those kids when it happened. No way was that an accident. I might be the only believer you've got, because it's right here. This is my chance to stop playing headbanging music and do something real.

They live on fear. They thrive on They ain't got no fear left.

speaker-0 (14:45.218)
Did you do that? What happened?

Bubba, she's ready. Bring her on!

speaker-1 (14:55.95)
You've got to the secret of that fabulously tasty chili!

speaker-0 (15:00.611)
I got a real good eye for prime meat. Run to the family. Show me what I fear so I don't fear it no more.

speaker-0 (15:24.364)
Boys, boys, boys.

speaker-0 (15:30.562)
Here's a first girl Bubba's brought home to dinner. It's a real special occasion.

speaker-0 (15:42.894)
Still an odd trailer, but better than the original.

speaker-1 (15:46.252)
Yeah

speaker-2 (15:47.23)
I was wondering if they had cut a trailer together like that for the original, would that have set people up better for the experience they're going to get?

speaker-0 (15:53.762)
Yes, I think it would have, especially even like having one of the soundtrack songs on the trailer. So you can kind of go to, this is like a moment in time.

speaker-1 (16:03.768)
does a good job, I think, of showing sort of the setting and bringing the characters back. And I love the music in the background. I mean, like, I think it's a great trailer.

speaker-0 (16:11.822)
Alright, you guys ready?

speaker-1 (16:13.387)
Ready, Freddy?

speaker-0 (16:14.914)
Here we go. Okay. So the movie opens with text on screen, deep throated voiceover that is not John Larrika. And it describes the events that occurred in the OG Texas Chainsaw, which left Sally Hardesty in right, picked up on the side of the road. Sally had said she had broken out of a window in hell. That was what Sally's quote was. She told the police about the gruesome details of what happened and that her friends had been hacked up for barbecue. So they give us that right away.

speaker-1 (16:43.982)
Right. I already have a question. I have to raise my hand. Go ahead. These are the filmmakers. They have seen their first film, correct?

speaker-2 (16:48.718)
There's so many as well.

speaker-0 (16:57.198)
Correct?

speaker-2 (16:57.772)
I would assume.

speaker-1 (16:58.956)
Why did they say it was a Volkswagen when it wasn't? Yes, it's a fucking Ford. I was like, I don't remember. Was it a Volkswagen? I went back and watched the first one. I watched both of them because it had been a while and I was like, nope, it's a Ford.

speaker-0 (17:02.51)
Where does it say? did it say Volkswagen in there?

speaker-2 (17:07.81)
Nice catch, I didn't think I caught that.

speaker-2 (17:19.041)
too distracted by how boring the voiceover guy was. That's in the larraquette in that original, like come on. The second guy just sounds like he's rushing through it and just trying to get it done as quick as possible. And also like the police not being able to find the house boggles my mind. Like it's literally off the road. It's not like this house was like hidden back deep in the woods. Like she jumps through the window, runs maybe what? Not even a quarter mile from the house to the road.

speaker-1 (17:22.315)
And now...

speaker-2 (17:48.95)
and then she gets picked up by the truck and all that that happens at end. But the fact that the police scoured the area for months and couldn't find anything is just hysterical to me.

speaker-0 (17:59.544)
Well, apparently they realized that someone had gotten away and destroyed the place and left no trace of the place. And then they moved along.

speaker-2 (18:09.504)
Impressive cleanup job. Yeah

speaker-0 (18:11.224)
Especially for three people and a nubbins.

speaker-2 (18:13.518)
Right.

speaker-1 (18:15.63)
Three people and a nubbin!

speaker-2 (18:18.326)
Old nubbins, he's coming up soon.

speaker-0 (18:21.03)
Okay, so she says this she tells them what happened. She tells them they were hacked in barbecue and then she sinks into catatonia and then that's it. That's all we hear. That's we don't hear anything else about Sally Artis D. Enright. Texas lawmen couldn't find the house. Officially on record the Texas Chainsaw Massacre never happened. But in the three years since there had been reports of chainsaw murders all across Texas. The VO says the Texas Chainsaw Massacre has not stopped. It haunts Texas.

It seems to have no end.

speaker-1 (18:53.346)
Bum bum.

speaker-2 (18:55.113)
Let's go. Let's go.

speaker-0 (18:56.578)
And then we get to red titles on black screen, score by Toby Hooper and Jerry Lambert, also written by LM Kit Carson as well. We'll go right in from the credits into the opening scene. It's a rural road. see a row of beat up mailboxes, Timbuk3's Shame on You is playing. So we're already into 80s soundtrack goodness. And then this lockdown of the mailboxes is interrupted as gunfire hits one of the mailboxes and a Mercedes flies past them down this road.

You see that the passenger is holding a long-billed revolver out of the window. He continues to shoot up road signs as he got on the road and we meet the two occupants, two very obnoxious rich assholes who are so fucking annoying.

speaker-2 (19:39.0)
Thick casting, just two yuppies drinking Scheiner Bock, driving down the highway.

speaker-1 (19:43.874)
This film brought to you by ShinerBot. Right.

speaker-0 (19:48.142)
They're credited as Buzz and Gunner. Buzz the driver, think is the worst. He's a very Kenyan. He's only done a few things. I thought he was terrible, just absolutely horrible. But Gunner is played by Chris Doritas, who was a long time DJ at KCRW. And he went on to become a music supervisor on films such as American Beauty and As Good As It Gets and all three Austin Powers movies. So he had a big career as a music supervisor and decades as a DJ at KCRW.

And I thought he was better, but they were so fucking annoying, both of them. Love the glasses they gave him. was just another weird, I love how they just add weird elements throughout the movie, these bizarre hologram glasses.

speaker-1 (20:27.116)
Here, wear these. He was like, okay.

speaker-0 (20:29.934)
So we see these guys, you know, just hooting and hollering, drinking beer, driving down the road, shooting shit up. And then we cut immediately to K. Okla radio station. We meet DJ Stretch, played by Caroline Williams. And I can't, so different age groups here. You were three, Joey. I was 16. I can't explain to you what Caroline Williams did to teenage Bart.

speaker-1 (20:57.319)
huh.

speaker-0 (20:58.808)
I'll just let you know she had an impact. She is so enjoyable to look at. Her face is so enjoyable to look at. They light her eyes so well in this and make those just big beautiful eyes pop.

speaker-2 (21:12.28)
She's great in this movie, man. She's probably my favorite part of the movie and like performance wise for sure. Like she has that vulnerability while still being like cool and collected and you know, just sexy and everything. Like she really brings all elements that she can to the role. And think she just is incredible. And Lindsay, to be honest, like when I'm watching this, I'm like, Caroline Williams is great, but if Lindsay was the right place, right time, you would be an incredible stretch.

speaker-1 (21:40.302)
That's not, well my legs aren't long enough, so I would have to have another nickname. I don't know what it would be, but it wouldn't be stretch. That's very nice of you. But yeah, I know. I thought she was such an awesome final girl, you know? I mean, she fought tooth and nail, and she's just not going down without a fight. I mean, she's active, she's smart, she's beautiful. Those shorts all day long, that scene with the chainsaw.

You know what I mean, terrifying and amazing. I think she's a totally underrated 80s horror heroine for sure.

speaker-0 (22:14.52)
Two things, I saw an interview where she only started taking acting lessons three years before this movie. So she was brand new. I saw the audition and I agree with you, Joey. I told Lindsay on like our second episode of this podcast that she has always reminded me of Caroline Williams. Really? Nice. Always has.

speaker-1 (22:32.718)
That's real sweet, y'all. I may get her haircut from this movie. I may do it. It's great. For the time. She's great. man. But yeah, her and the legend of Billie Jean. She was in Days of Thunder.

speaker-0 (22:38.133)
I love that haircut.

speaker-0 (22:46.798)
Was she really?

speaker-2 (22:48.046)
That's great. That's awesome. She ended up having a pretty strong career

speaker-1 (22:49.474)
Yeah. Yeah, so apparently they were, she wanted to make like a really strong impression in the audition. And so when she was called in, she went to the end of the hallway and ran screaming into the room. So she pulled like Toby Hooper and Kit Carlson out of their seats and used the chairs to barricade the door before she began her audition.

speaker-2 (23:12.578)
That's amazing. That's how you do it sometimes. That's how you stand out to horror directors.

speaker-1 (23:17.378)
Yeah, she's just great from the second she enters the screen. She captivates you. You can't take your eyes off of her. Like, she's just awesome.

speaker-0 (23:25.464)
Camera loves her, absolutely loves her. There's a caller calling into the request line, Stretch answers it. It's some woman telling some skank to leave her boyfriend alone and then we cut to the two rich Mercedes assholes and we see that they're listening to her broadcast and they decide to give her a call to make a request. They call in, they tell her that they're on the way to UTOU weekend in Dallas. Hook them horns! She tries to get them to hang up, but they won't.

speaker-1 (23:49.666)
Hehehehehe

speaker-0 (23:54.398)
And this requires a little explaining to younger audiences. And even because I'm an old and I didn't get this at the time, I remember, I think I watched it at the time thinking even as a teenager having a vague memory of this, but even into the nineties, early nineties, rural areas had this type of phone where if someone would call you and if they didn't hang up, the line would not be disconnected. And so...

It seems so archaic and bizarre to say that, if the person calls you and they refuse to hang up, you can't disconnect the line.

speaker-2 (24:32.532)
She could have hung up on them at any point, but it wouldn't have freed up the line for them to get any other calls through.

speaker-1 (24:38.154)
Right. Exactly. Right. Yeah.

speaker-0 (24:39.854)
It just reads better and more dramatic for her to just keep saying, hang up the phone, guys, hang up the phone, guys, hang up the phone, guys. But yeah, so that's what it is. And I even went on Reddit and a lot of people were like going, that doesn't make any sense. And then old people have to explain, no, I lived this. It was a real thing. It sounds so stupid, but it's real. So that's what that's about. They won't hang up. While stuck on the line with them, Stretch hears that they start to play a game of chicken with a pickup truck that's on the road.

So they see this pickup truck and they're like, hey, let's play a little chicken. so they get into the lane of this truck that's coming in the other lane, sending the truck off the side of the road. I don't know guys, that truck seems a little ominous to me. Just me. Doesn't seem like a normal pickup truck. At the station, we see that Stretch is pulling plugs, trying to disconnect the line, but can't. And Stretch calls across the glass for help from her lovable redneck audio engineer, LG, played by Lou Perryman. And Lou Perryman,

speaker-1 (25:21.496)
Well...

speaker-0 (25:35.884)
Let's talk about Lou Perryman while we're here. Lou Perryman was an assistant camera on the OG Texas chainsaw massacre. Had small roles in the blues brothers and boys don't cry, but is probably best known to horror fans as the construction worker and poltergeist who's eating the food and drinking the coffee through the open window of the family's kitchen. I, Jo Beth Williams, she takes the cup from him and says, he says, sure make great coffee. Unfortunately.

speaker-2 (25:55.425)
right yeah

speaker-0 (26:05.528)
This is where it gets very tragic and sad. Perryman is included in the poltergeist curse lore because on April 1st, 2009, a 26 year old parolee named Seth Christopher Tatum attacked and murdered Perryman in his home with an ax in Austin, Texas. And he was killed. So he is part of that lore of the curse of people that were in poltergeist dying. Once you know that is how he died, it makes watching

speaker-2 (26:24.622)
Holy shit.

speaker-0 (26:35.82)
his scenes so difficult.

speaker-1 (26:38.542)
So hard.

speaker-2 (26:40.482)
Damn, I had no idea.

speaker-0 (26:42.542)
Yeah, just awful. But yeah, he was a he was, he was in a bunch of stuff in small roles and just like in Pulture Guys and he was good. He went from being a crew person and a camera person and until the other side of the camera and yeah, we're better for it and I'm glad we got LG out of that trade. Yeah.

speaker-1 (26:59.064)
Yeah, he's great.

speaker-2 (27:00.076)
I'm just making the connection that you two are kind of like the stretch in LG of horror podcasting, right?

speaker-1 (27:06.574)
Except Bart doesn't call me darlin'. Don't call me that.

speaker-0 (27:12.8)
I'll cut it out.

speaker-2 (27:15.575)
OGB.

speaker-0 (27:17.1)
No, that line, we're getting there. that fucking line, man. my God. That's one of those just like, why? What are you doing here? What kind of movie is this? So LG is trying to disconnect the line as well. I'm trying, darling. Stretz says, don't call me darling, damn it. So he's pulling all these cables and apparently every cable at the radio station is somehow connected to the phone lines, but still doesn't work. He's like, I'm plugging out of the control board.

Then we see the Mercedes drives on down the road and we cut to nighttime. We see our first exterior of the K. Okla radio station. Great location. This movie has a bunch of great locations that look fantastic on film and that radio station is one of them. It just looks just like on an Oasis out here in the middle of nowhere. Great location.

speaker-1 (28:05.454)
Oh, maybe I should mention I was actually also a DJ for Rock 103. Did you guys know?

speaker-0 (28:10.346)
that's right!

speaker-2 (28:11.054)
There we go! All these connections.

speaker-0 (28:13.838)
Inside the station, nighttime, is playing and dancing to Goo Goo Muck by the Cramps as LG does some busy work. If I worked with Stretch, I would do busy work to stick around as much as possible too. I don't blame LG at all. Unfortunately, we got our second phone call from Buzz and Gunner. LG starts pulling even more cables, trying to disconnect them. It's like flipping every switch. It's like he's controlling a submarine to try to turn this, disconnect this phone call.

On the phone, the Mercedes crosses a bridge and is blocked by the pickup truck from previously. And it's just blocking this two lane bridge. The truck pulls to the lane beside them. And as they try to pass the truck, the truck begins racing backwards alongside them on this small two lane bridge. This driving is some of Buzz's finest work. Did you notice his driving style on the steering wheel? It's like someone who's never driven a car before trying to imagine how that would work. He just keeps going.

speaker-1 (29:08.814)
Right, phone in one hand, steering wheel in the other.

speaker-0 (29:14.862)
In the back of the pickup truck, we see for the first time this bizarre looking corpse jumping around and waving its arms. And it's really spooked these two dickheads. And we don't know it now, but we'll know it later. But we'll go ahead and say it. This is Nubbins. This is the corpse of the hitchhiker from the original Texas chainsaw massacre. And very creepy how you see the glimpse of a figure behind him, like shrouded in this black material, but he's controlling him.

and then pulls out a chainsaw and just very well done. This scene has stuck with me since the first time I saw it.

speaker-2 (29:51.182)
I think this is the best scene in the movie. wow. I think it's an incredible opening, sets the tone for the whole thing. You have the Oingo Boingo song playing at the same time. Like, if you're not understanding that you're about to watch a silly comedy, this is, I think, first and foremost, a horror film. But I think it sets up what this movie is going to present in such a perfect way. That opening scene is creepy as sh**. On the back of the truck with the corpse as like a shield, I guess, in a way.

speaker-1 (30:13.536)
It is.

speaker-2 (30:20.034)
dancing around swinging this chainsaw like it is unsettling. It is really, really unsettling. so it's still hilarious once you're you understand the tone of the movie. So I don't know. I think it's the best scene of the film.

speaker-1 (30:32.206)
shot really well, edited really well, like everything about it, it's solid, it's very good.

speaker-2 (30:37.346)
This was Oingo Boingo's moment too because just a few months before was back to school the Rodney Danger film with Oingo Boingo live performance in the movie. So this was their time. This is their three months they had. Yeah. Summer of 86 until Danny Elfman of course went off to

speaker-0 (30:53.55)
And we never heard of him again

speaker-1 (30:55.246)
Yeah, never heard of him again. Who's that?

speaker-0 (30:58.318)
Well, I like to think of this movie as an exploration and mind fuckery. It twists your arm behind your back and makes you watch. And I, and I love it for it. So yeah. So we see nubbins with obviously someone controlling nubbins behind it, pulls out the chainsaw, starts hacking the chainsaw down on the Mercedes. The occupants are ducking away from the blade. And finally Gunner realizes that he's holding a pistol. He fires it at the corpse of nubbins and hits it in the head.

and knocks the head back and then behind it we see the face of Leatherface and Leatherface is pissed and Buzz the driver says, shit, he's back. Leatherface starts cutting into the driver's side of the door as both cars are still flying down the bridge side by side. Gunner fires a few more shots before he realizes that Buzz has had his head severed and the top half just falls off and blood starts squirting out of about four or five different tubes.

speaker-1 (31:49.662)
So good. I love it. The cut on his forehead and like the look on his face and then, I think it's great.

speaker-2 (31:59.042)
Yeah, Tom Savini did the special effects for this, which in a way, the special effects in this are so good that I wonder if that also kind of hurts the comedy a little bit because this is a nasty movie. You know, it's a different kind of like Evil Dead 2 splatter gore where that's so over the top that you can't help but laugh. But this is taking its gore pretty seriously. And so I do think that might have hurt the tone a little for people that weren't sure what they were walking into because it's a gnarly, out movie in that way. It is.

and you've got one of the best to ever do it doing your effect.

speaker-0 (32:31.116)
And doing it well. Immediately we cut to the accident scene the next day on an overpass, which doesn't look anything like the bridge that we were just on, by the way. Nothing like it. Totally different area. Look closer to Dallas on this one. But here we see little tiny Dennis Hopper in his cowboy outfit as Lieutenant Lefty Enright. He's so tiny. Wait a second, hold up. Wasn't Sally Hardesty Enright the sole survivor of the Tex Chainsaw Massacre? They have the same last name.

speaker-1 (32:50.392)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (32:57.762)
Wait. Whoa. Wait. Do you think they're related? okay. It's gotta be. It's gotta be.

speaker-0 (33:01.71)
I think it's a coincidence.

Yeah, it's gotta be.

speaker-2 (33:06.35)
We've got our true prime voices on this one.

speaker-0 (33:08.662)
So Lieutenant Lefty and Right kneels down to study some of Leatherface's handiwork on the car door. Okay, that's enough of that. He touches the blade mark on the car door and pulls his hand away like the memory is too painful. Then he slides the door on the ground and there are those hologram sunglasses that Gunner was wearing from before. Another just cool little shot. You didn't have to do that. You didn't have to. But it works. Because the very next shot...

speaker-1 (33:33.249)
It works.

speaker-0 (33:35.712)
is him standing up and seeing that the cops are all arriving. So it was a great in-between shot between seeing the door and the cops.

speaker-1 (33:44.088)
What a year Dennis Hopper had. Blue Velvet and Hoosiers.

speaker-2 (33:47.796)
who's Oscar nominated for Hoosiers that year and he was also in the River's Edge that year. This is another great film. had four important films that still kind of hold on in the zeitgeist. It's impressive.

speaker-0 (33:52.312)
Jesus Christ.

speaker-0 (33:58.798)
around the old picket fence and don't get caught watching the paint dry.

speaker-2 (34:01.774)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (34:02.755)
Apparently it was the year of Oingo Boingo and Dennis Hopper.

speaker-2 (34:06.626)
He has a complicated relationship with this movie, I think. He's called it before the worst film he was ever involved in. Yeah. Marin's also in the Super Mario Brothers movie, so maybe that's changed over time.

speaker-1 (34:16.909)
Yeah, he was he did not seem to please.

speaker-2 (34:21.038)
I wonder why he's in this movie. Like what made him think this was the thing to do? I mean, I'm glad he's in it. I think he's funny in it. But I wonder if it's because of L.M. Kit Carson's writing, because Kit Carson at the time had done Paris, Texas, which is an incredible film on the palm door, was like an established, like up and coming screenwriter who apparently didn't want to really be a prestige writer. And that's why he agreed to do Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2. So I wonder if there was some sort of like

prestigey feel to it that maybe Dennis Hopper was gravitating towards? I don't know. I'm curious as to why he thought this was the right move at that time in his career.

speaker-0 (35:00.184)
I don't know the order of things, but it could have been and just happened to be the first one they shot before the other films you just mentioned. And he didn't know if he was going to have a lot of work that year. And then it just steamrolled.

speaker-1 (35:10.604)
That is the case as I remember.

speaker-0 (35:13.23)
So he would have totally turned it down had the other ones come first. So I'm glad he didn't, even though not all of the unevenness of his performance can be blamed on Tobey Hooper or the writing. Some of it is just, you can tell he didn't want to be there and he's kind of phoned it in. Though there are lines, like there's a line coming up, like, so the cops arrive and one of the detectives comes out and is talking to them at the accident scene.

speaker-1 (35:16.718)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (35:42.38)
He's skeptical of lefty's chainsaw hunches on this. But I have to say I like this actor. And I couldn't find his name, but the actor who plays the detective, I thought he was really good. He's got very comfortable delivery. A lot of clunky dialogue. He said, were just, he was just raising some hell. And Dennis Hopper says, hell, hell's exactly what they raised.

speaker-2 (35:52.598)
Yeah, he was funny.

speaker-0 (36:04.226)
There's a lot of lines like that and then the detective says something and it doesn't even connect to what Dennis Hopper says, something like, more precise with your words. And it doesn't even make sense with what the guy just said. He was very concise in what he said. And it was one of those clever writer things where you think he's really telling them how it goes down, but he didn't give him the right intro to that line. So it just didn't make any sense. Back to looking at uneven in the dictionary.

lefty tells the detective he wants him to put it in the press so that maybe some witnesses come forward. Now, when he says this, I thought, well, yeah, why, why would you not, you know, where are the reporters anyway, that there's an accident and you think there'd be coverage.

speaker-1 (36:45.55)
think they were at the actual accident. This isn't it. So the reporters are at the actual accident at the real bridge or it happened. Right. They're like, wait, this was the location.

speaker-0 (36:57.39)
Maybe the brothers of the Chainsaw family can not only teleport houses, but they can teleport accidents as well. And so that's what we're dealing with here. So very next scene, we're at Lefty's hotel. Stretch shows up at Lefty's room and a lot of partying going on by the OUUT rabble rousers. And we see a very quick cameo by Toby Hooper right there at the door. a Longhorns hat. Stretch knocks on the door, Lefty answers.

speaker-1 (37:20.846)
Okay, all right.

speaker-0 (37:26.984)
She shows him the headline of the story, which is in the paper, which brought her to his hotel room. Cowboy Chasing Chainsaws is the title of this story. So does it list his hotel room?

speaker-1 (37:38.861)
Right.

speaker-2 (37:39.394)
This is also probably the worst scene of the movie.

speaker-0 (37:42.166)
When I was 16, I hated this scene and now that I'm old, it's gotten even worse. So let's talk about this.

speaker-1 (37:49.27)
It's bad. Yeah.

speaker-2 (37:51.982)
It's a weird jump in time to show up in this situation where how does she find his hotel room, like what is going on, why does he suddenly look all beat up? Like his eyes are saggy, like his skin is off, like he looks completely different, looks like he's gotten beaten up somewhere, like is there a scene missing here?

speaker-1 (38:10.914)
has to be. This movie was a lot longer and they cut a ton out of it. Yeah. you just have to think there was something that we're missing.

speaker-0 (38:15.904)
RIP, Joe Bob Briggs.

speaker-2 (38:18.145)
exactly.

speaker-2 (38:23.49)
He's also just like so dismissive of her playing the tape. Yeah. Like just listen to the tape, buddy. Like this the one person that should have.

speaker-1 (38:29.518)
not a fucking audio of the murders. Like what detective is going to be like?

speaker-0 (38:35.938)
Yeah, she says, I've got recording of the actual murder and lefty has zero interest in it. She explains her case even further that the tape that she brought contains the two men being murdered and you can hear it. And lefty escorts her to the door and tells her that these mad dogs live on fear. They thrive on it. I ain't got no fear left. And since her packing, she answered the call with evidence and he doesn't want to hear it. So he sends her on her way. Yeah.

Such a dumb scene. We might as well have not even had this scene and it could have done it on a phone call. Again, there's a few scenes like this one, but I agree this is the worst scene in the entire movie. But thankfully it is. It's quick and it makes no sense, but it is the worst. Downstairs in the hotel restaurant, lovable LG is making a French fry cabin on the table. Stretch gets to the table, she's agitated and LG says, looky, built you a little fry house.

speaker-1 (39:18.616)
Yeah.

speaker-2 (39:19.212)
are.

speaker-1 (39:33.646)
Yes.

speaker-0 (39:35.05)
Stretch says LG and he says, what darling stretch smiles and says, hell G.

speaker-2 (39:42.734)
That was the sitcom moment, you know?

speaker-0 (39:44.824)
with our beauty lighting and everything. just was so weird and syrupy.

speaker-2 (39:50.382)
It's like the only way they knew how to establish there being like any bond between the two of them that they have this like dynamic I guess but it's just lazy. Yeah. But it's fine.

speaker-0 (40:00.846)
How can she stay mad at sweet and simple LG?

speaker-1 (40:04.46)
O-L-G. Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (40:06.718)
They're quickly interrupted by a dinner bell and we see the trophy for the Texas Oklahoma Chili Cook-Off Grand Champion with a chili bowl atop of it, unnecessary, being filled with chili. This is very Troma-esque as well. It's like pouring chili over to the bowl and it's pouring down the trophy and it's gross. They're announcing the winner of the Chili Cook-Off and the champion is none other than Drayton Sawyer from Texas Chainsaw, played by Jim Seda.

speaker-2 (40:33.902)
Love him. Yep. Love him so much.

speaker-0 (40:35.982)
and a humdinger of a suit.

speaker-2 (40:38.508)
He looks like the evil Mr. Roger.

speaker-0 (40:40.576)
Definitely more of a Don Knotts

speaker-1 (40:43.042)
Wasn't this his last film? He did it, he had like an episode in a TV series, but I think this was his last feature film.

speaker-2 (40:44.408)
Jim Sito? I don't know.

speaker-0 (40:51.534)
I wonder if the violence got to him, you know, because there are some interviews about hitting Marilyn Burns and how he had to really hit her in the original Texas Chainsaw and this one's...

speaker-1 (41:00.013)
Yeah

speaker-2 (41:00.654)
can see that, he's an older man, you know, I can see him not being...

speaker-0 (41:03.394)
He looks like he fits the part, but he's probably sweet and just took an emotional toll, even though he did do cons for a long time. So he didn't turn away from

speaker-1 (41:12.45)
Yeah, he's great though. He's so good.

speaker-2 (41:14.382)
It's so funny in this scene, like all of the like little jokes that he has where it's like cluing people in that like this is people in this barbecue chili. Yeah, I don't know. It's so funny.

speaker-0 (41:23.448)
Yeah. The woman says she presents him with a trophy and asked what the secret is. And he said, it's the meat. Don't skimp on the meat. The woman takes a bite of the chili and finds a tooth. Drayton spots it and takes it forever and says, it's one of those hard shell peppercorns. Everybody seems to love old Drayton though. Just love it. Now we cut to my favorite scene in the movie. So we cut to cut right chainsaws.

speaker-2 (41:39.0)
Right.

speaker-2 (41:42.56)
Yeah. What a charm.

speaker-1 (41:44.462)
It's the hat.

speaker-0 (41:52.512)
Lefty pulls up outside the chainsaw shop and decides to do some chainsaw shopping. While the proprietor is on the phone, Lefty comes in. The owner of Cut Right Chainsaws is played by James N. Harrell. Harrell was in a shit ton of stuff. Harrell was in Paper Moon. Wow. He was in Urban Cowboy. Wow. He was in JFK. And he was in a family thing. A family thing makes sense. A lot of old-timer actors, but...

I have an old roommate who's now passed on to the great barbecue shop in the sky. And one of his favorite lines was from this scene. And I think about it often when I think of him. So great scene here. The store is dark because the proprietor has just opened it up. He's walked inside, phone call, he's on the phone. Lefty steps inside the front door. The owner flips on the light. So then it lights up Lefty as he steps into the room.

And then left, he's looking around, he sees the darkened showroom and as he steps towards the darkened showroom, the owner flips on the light, lighting up a whole room of chainsaws. Lefty walks in to the room full of chainsaws, set to Life is Hard by Timbuk3. He starts trying all the chainsaws on for size, he'll pick them up and he's fans out a bunch of $100 bills on this tree stump in the middle of the room, which of course there should be a tree stump in the middle of the room, it's a chainsaw store.

The proprietor walks in looking very red and very confused and just watches him pull down chainsaws and test them out like he's using them as swords. And he picks one massive chainsaw and two small ones and then walks out. The owner tells him to hit them suckers a time or two. They got gas in them. So we cut to outside. There is a tree trunk out in the parking lot.

Lefty cranks up the chainsaw and starts going medieval on this fucking log with this chainsaw.

speaker-2 (43:49.314)
And the chainsaw owner is just having a blast watching him go too.

speaker-0 (43:53.098)
As he watches him go to town on this log, we see fear, we see lust, we see excitement, we see joy, we see arousal, pretty much every fucking emotion in this guy's face. He's so exciting. His arms are moving. He's just giddy. And then he says one of the greatest lines ever uttered in cinema as he gets more and more excited has left. just keeps going down on that log. He says with a slow

Camera zoom on his face. my Aiken banana Glorious makes no sense and is glorious

speaker-1 (44:33.482)
I just guffawed. Like I was like what in the world.

speaker-2 (44:40.066)
I remember thinking when they watched this the first time was like is this guy involved? Is he part of the Sawyer family? Is he the chainsaw dealer that they work with? how is this? I thought that guy was gonna come back around but nope he's just a weird little old man that runs his chainsaw factory.

speaker-1 (44:43.351)
Right

speaker-1 (44:54.146)
I remember thinking that too the first time I saw it.

speaker-0 (44:56.652)
This scene is a lot like a lot of the early scenes in the first Texas Chainsaw where other people along the way are just weird and bizarre and it makes it creepier, you know? And so yeah, same thing when I first saw it, I thought, this guy's obviously the grandfather. No, he just loves chainsaws and gets a heart on when someone else appreciates chainsaws as much as he does.

speaker-2 (45:19.128)
for him, good for him, he's found his niche.

speaker-1 (45:21.854)
My aching banana. That's the best.

speaker-0 (45:27.17)
Back at K. Oakley, Lefty is waiting for Stretch sitting on the steps of the radio station. Stretch pulls up in her Jeep.

speaker-1 (45:34.862)
coolest jeep on the fucking planet.

speaker-0 (45:36.824)
Small town radio station DJs, we know they pay very, very well. Yeah, of course. As we all know, especially in the eighties. Lefty tells her he wants her to play that tape on the air. He tells her that the killers are here and that the kill sites have been clustered all over Northeast Texas for the last two years. So he wants to, wants to smoke them out. Cut to Drayton Sawyer driving his catering truck down the road, singing to himself about his chilly cook-off victory. Very trauma like scene to me and the

The grain on this scene is so big, it makes it even more like a tra...

speaker-1 (46:11.31)
Yeah.

speaker-2 (46:13.282)
I love that he's driving, the trophy's just sitting in the passenger seat, still full of chili as he's speeding down.

speaker-0 (46:19.39)
I'm number one, number one, I'm the best, number one.

speaker-1 (46:24.59)
my god

speaker-0 (46:26.854)
we cut right back to Kay Okla stretch plays the tape on the air and says, not one of her best performance. This is for lefty. So Drayton gets a call on his catering truck phone. man, the eighties, everybody in this movie has car phones and I knew nobody with a car phone in the eighties.

speaker-1 (46:46.551)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (46:47.256)
Drayton gets a call and the person on the other line tells him to turn the radio to Keokla and he does and he immediately hears the chainsaw and the screams of two Mercedes doofuses. Fishtails the last roundup catering truck on the side of the road. It's nighttime now, is still playing the tape on the air. LG is fielding complaint calls and Caroline Williams, come on lefty, she just keeps saying this stuff out loud. Where are you? Clock hits midnight, Stretch signs off the air for the night.

LG hocks up a Lugi, spits it on the floor of the control room as he stands in the doorway of the sound booth. LG asks her she wants to get coffee, but stretch declines, causing LG to get jealous. I didn't even think about, I thought maybe they were just coworkers. And then he says, huh, I guess you're waiting on this guy, Lefty. And that was like, okay. He has feelings for it. I didn't even know it until. So he's jealous of old Lefty. And also at the time to my teenage eyes, Dennis Hopper was a hundred.

speaker-2 (47:35.842)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (47:44.759)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (47:45.518)
But now looking back Dennis Hopper was younger than I am now maybe younger than both of you

speaker-1 (47:51.31)
Yeah.

speaker-2 (47:51.938)
Wow, possibly,

speaker-0 (47:53.678)
but he just seemed so old that I just thought, that's ridiculous. She wouldn't have anything for lefty. So stretch grabs LG's arm, turns him towards the door and says good night. LG storms off in a huff, not before spitting another loogie on the floor of the hallway before leaving the station.

speaker-1 (47:58.999)
Right.

speaker-2 (48:11.586)
Him hawking those loogies is grosser than anything else in this movie. Right?

speaker-1 (48:15.082)
It is. And in one particular time later where you're like,

speaker-0 (48:19.374)
Get there. The phone rings. She's alone. Stretch answers. Nobody's on the other line. Soon after she hears a noise coming from outside the sound booth. The geography of this place is a little confusing at times. Great set deck on the whole place. Love the design of the whole place, but a little confusing about where the rooms are, what the rooms are now. We find out later, but so she hears some noises coming from outside. She

speaker-2 (48:19.881)
Yeah

speaker-0 (48:48.366)
She's got music playing in the sound booth, real loud. She steps out in the hall, great cut. She steps out and turns in the hallway. Immediately the sound drops, cause now she's in the hallway, but she also turns towards the hallway at the same time on the cut. Excellent cut, walks down this hallway, excellent set deck. They've got all these different color carpet samples on the wall. Just gives the room great pop. It just looks great on camera.

speaker-2 (49:11.566)
I've got credit Kerry White, the production designer. Fantastic job. Yeah, he went on to have a pretty strong career. We're about to meet our hero, the hero of the film.

speaker-1 (49:13.89)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (49:21.038)
She goes down to the end of the hallway and sees a person's shadow through the frosted glass of a closed door. We find out in a moment that that door leads down to the lobby. But right now it's just like, I'm totally disoriented in where we are. It is such a tiny little station, but it just keeps going on and on and on. So yes, she sees someone through the door. She's nervous at first, as anybody would be, and then immediately just throws the door open and says, Lefty.

speaker-1 (49:34.542)
It's like the house in house.

speaker-0 (49:50.656)
It ain't lefty. She steps inside the multicolored room and it is a mind fuck of lighting in this room. She steps in and the light on her is totally red. And then beautiful fucking face, beautiful emotion on those big, beautiful eyes. And she steps and she's startled by sitting on a couch in the dark, a man struggling to speak at first. He leans forward and the light cast from this novelty lamp on the table. And he said he wants to buy some air time.

We still don't see him fully. We see it's creepy. We see that he's got odd hair, odd clothing. He looks kind of dressed like a hippie, but we still can't see him fully. And she says, are you fucking crazy? We're closed. Love the delivery on that line. then some weirdo shown up in the middle of the night after midnight, wanting to buy airtime. And then what does she do? She walks straight down the stairs towards him. But as she steps down those stairs, she sees him for the first time, like lit.

speaker-1 (50:35.651)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (50:50.07)
and freezes and this scene to me is the movie. This was the scene for me that I was like, holy shit, I'm creeped out. I am legitimately spooked out. And it's our first appearance of Chop Top played by Bill Mosley. Other than this role, Mosley is best known to horror fans as Otis B. Driftwood from Rob Zombie's Firefly trilogy. And this movie fucking made Bill Mosley. He'll always be Chop Top to me. Every line in this fucking movie that he says is quotable.

The performance is excellent. The scenes like this make up for all of the trauma-esque scenes in this movie because they're so scary, unnerving, and great. The fucking cut on action where he stands up from the wide shot to the closeup on the couch and we get to see his face lit properly as in the closeup is so creepy. Yes. And everything about him is so well done.

speaker-1 (51:33.005)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (51:49.102)
This is the movie to me. I was all in when I first saw this movie, but this scene was like, oh, we just, we just stepped into a whole nother realm here.

speaker-2 (51:57.592)
Yeah, he fully understands what movie he's in. Yes. You know, when he brings that performance, like it is unnerving and funny at the same time, which is really hard to do. know, like you're laughing at him, but you're also just grossed out and horrified at what he's doing to him. The lighting of the coat hanger. Yes. Scratching his head. don't know what, you don't really understand what he's doing with it. He's scratching his head.

speaker-1 (52:14.274)
So right.

speaker-2 (52:24.098)
We know he's picking off the pieces and eating the skin. even saying it out loud makes me. Yeah. But you don't quite understand why he's doing it or how it works or what is happening. So you're distracted by that while trying to listen to what he's saying to her. It's just, mean, it's. A star just entered the room, the tone of it changes, the vibe of it changes like he just yeah, he brings such energy to that performance.

speaker-0 (52:29.294)
Revolting.

speaker-1 (52:29.986)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (52:40.384)
terrifying and

speaker-1 (52:50.474)
exactly when we needed it.

speaker-2 (52:52.28)
But I can see that it's also turning people off immediately too. Like I would assume that if you're watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 that like this wouldn't revolt you, but what he's doing is pretty vile and I can certainly see that being the moment that some fans or some people watching the film might have just said, alright, I'm checking out of this.

speaker-0 (53:10.85)
And this scene is a continuation of the disorientation because like you said, he's got this coat hanger. You don't know what it's for at first. You can just tell he's holding it and it's bent and he's just holding it. And then he starts lighting it and scratching his skull and eating the flesh off of it. This to me is what I enjoyed about acid. That moment where I have no touchstone right now. I'm out there. I don't know if I'm gonna come back. I don't know what is reality.

I'm a little lost, but I like it. I'm just gonna see where this goes. That's what this feels like to me.

speaker-1 (53:44.994)
Yeah, and any other actor would have taken that and it would have been a total gimmick. I mean, but the way that he plays it is so on the nose and perfect. It's just enough, but it's not too much and it's genuinely memorable. It never feels gimmicky ever.

speaker-2 (54:03.79)
Yeah, I he's committed.

speaker-0 (54:05.006)
I don't think I'd ever seen anything like it before.

speaker-2 (54:08.11)
I mean, the closest thing, honestly, would be the brother character he's playing from the original Texas Chainsaw, Nubbins. Yeah. I guess, I mean, but he's not called Nubbins in the original film, but that's his brother, right? That's the implication that that's his brother. And so obviously, he's playing with a little bit of that. I think he's taking a little bit of that character and then just amping it up to a more heightened 80s sensibility. Yeah. That's incredible.

speaker-0 (54:30.028)
first time I saw it I thought it was the hitchhiker.

speaker-2 (54:33.292)
Yeah, I think a lot of people probably did. Yeah, I certainly did.

speaker-0 (54:36.322)
this whole scene of trying to find reality again and get back to it is what makes this movie so much fun. And this scene is a representation of that. Like I hear immediately goes in, I wanna make a request. What about Iron Butterfly? know, a Vita da Gata baby, which everybody loves. It's like he said, instead of in a Gata da Vita, he says in a Vita da Gata and they left it. But as he like, walks towards her and she starts walking backwards and then she's got nowhere to go. She's walks against this desk and.

and he asks for a tour and this is one of her best scenes in the whole movie. She's just legitimately frightened by this guy, just terrified of this guy, knows there's no way out, you know? She's in this small room, he's walked her against this desk and he asks for a tour and she goes, yeah, just put a short one, but it ends at the exit sign, which is a great line. I love that line. Yeah. Because exit sign is right behind him on the wall. Yeah, exactly. And legitimately just starts grabbing things off the desk behind her. Here's a lamp.

speaker-1 (55:27.252)
Call back later.

speaker-0 (55:33.57)
Here's a typewriter, here's a rubber man, armadillo, Mr. Shark, which I remember how adorable she did the Mr. Shark that has stuck with me for years. Mr. Shark, let's it bite a few times. Here's some flowers, here's a Rolodex, here's a lamp, and she takes the next lamp and shines light on it, and he immediately just slaps it out of her hand. It just ramps everything up, like, he's violent. He's not just weird, he's gonna be physical. So he slaps it out of her hand, and then she goes, and there's the exit sign, tours over, Chop Talk walks over to the exit sign.

and the exchange they have here of good nights. So classic.

speaker-2 (56:08.366)
Good night.

speaker-1 (56:09.848)
Good night.

speaker-0 (56:10.666)
Every way she says goodnight, he says it like, goodnight, goodnight.

speaker-1 (56:15.342)
Tonight!

speaker-0 (56:17.784)
but won't go anywhere. He says, I still need to do a request. He goes, you know that lefty request record? And he said, what was that anyway? The Rambo 3 soundtrack?

speaker-1 (56:26.818)
which hadn't come out yet.

speaker-2 (56:28.364)
He knew it was coming. knew Rainbow 3 was coming.

speaker-0 (56:31.758)
They we cut to a profile shot of the two of them for the first time and they're really in close proximity and right behind them is a darkened doorway to another room and he asked what's in there and she says it's the record vault and he says maybe there's new music and soon as he like leans towards the door he says maybe there's new music the room lights up and Leatherface comes flying out with the already running chainsaw

It's, I think it's the only jump scare in the movie, but I watched it a second time that scene yesterday, like an hour after watching the first time. It made me jump again.

speaker-2 (57:03.542)
I know it's coming every time and it's still. It's just a combination of the sound, the light coming on, the image of leather face attacking, like all of that working simultaneously makes for a jump scare that just will always work. No matter, even when you know it's coming because it's so well timed.

speaker-1 (57:05.41)
Yeah, it's

speaker-1 (57:21.754)
it's so good.

speaker-0 (57:22.766)
And Lindsay, think we made fun of Friday the 13th, the new beginning, how she just has the chainsaw and it turns on immediately, she steps out. This is the same thing. The chainsaw's just on. And then a couple of times in the movie, it's just on. And then it made me wonder, I didn't watch the original, but I would assume also in the original, it's probably just on a couple of times too, right? They just cut to them and it's already fired up. like, how'd you do that?

speaker-1 (57:46.498)
Yeah, he's magic. He's magical.

speaker-0 (57:48.766)
I will accept it in better movies, but I will not accept it in shitty movies.

speaker-1 (57:52.27)
Exactly.

speaker-2 (57:54.094)
accepted because it's leather face like he's a master of that chain.

speaker-1 (57:56.814)
Exactly, he knows what he's doing.

speaker-0 (57:58.754)
He's rigged it. He's rigged it to just one click.

speaker-1 (58:02.722)
which is totally something that he would do. He needs that alumnus bright.

speaker-0 (58:06.998)
And he's got time. Because he hasn't discovered sex yet. So what else is he going to do? So as Leatherface lunges out, goes for stretch, he rakes the chainsaw across Chop Top's skull and then chases Stretch up into the control room. She sprays Leatherface with a fire extinguisher and then manages to lock herself in behind a giant iron door to the control room. And that's very much like the iron door from Texas Chainsaw Massacre One. you know, it's just a hair.

speaker-2 (58:34.283)
huh. Yup.

speaker-0 (58:37.014)
While that's all going on, while he's trying to get into the door that she's locked behind, this is where we get more great stuff from Bill Moseley as Chop Top. He dead in my plate! We see that he has a metal plate covering part of his skull. Non-flashback, non-flashback! Leatherface, you bitch! Look what you did to my sunny-bono wig!

speaker-1 (58:52.376)
Bye.

speaker-1 (58:58.456)
So many good lines. Isn't this the scene where he says dog will hunt?

speaker-0 (59:02.23)
Yeah, it's cut right after this. He's like, And then he pulls a huge piece of skin from it and eats it. Vile. Vile. then he composes himself and he yells to Leatherface, dog will hunt. Get that bitch, Leatherface, get that bitch. Dog will hunt.

speaker-1 (59:17.39)
for our misuse later.

speaker-0 (59:18.914)
Yeah, as Primus used later and Leatherface keeps trying to saw the door down while Stretch screams from the other side. Chop-Top goes into the record vault. It just starts raiding records. That's like, that's his whole action for the next five minutes of movie while Leatherface is trying to get her. He's just going through records, like putting something in his bag.

speaker-2 (59:38.094)
shows how much he trusts Leatherface to take care of the problem. You can just hang back and listen to some tunes.

speaker-0 (59:43.458)
And he's already said music is his life.

speaker-2 (59:45.848)
Mm-hmm. Right.

speaker-1 (59:47.724)
Yeah. Time for him to have a little bit of fun.

speaker-0 (59:49.998)
Exactly. Stretches in full panic. She's in the room and she starts screaming and then she remembers what left he said to her and they live on fear. They live on fear. They live on fear. It was one of those writer moments like have it come back in her mind at that moment to realize she needs to calm down. She needs to figure out a way to calculate the situation and manipulate it and get out of this situation, which does set it up nicely because he keeps trying to saw the door down.

And outside, LG returns with coffees, because he's a provider, he's a sweetheart. She said she didn't want coffee, but he knows she needs coffee. So he sees the truck in the parking lot. And I would assume, I don't know this for certain, I would assume he assumes it's lefty, maybe. Probably. Because he spits a loogie near the truck before going up. He walks in the door and I he says, stretch darlin', you know you left the door unlocked? And starts going up to the studio and then...

speaker-1 (01:00:27.224)
Sit down.

speaker-0 (01:00:47.414)
notices Chop Top digging through records and the record falls and LG says, Hey, what the shit and Chop Top replies, lick my plate. You dog.

speaker-1 (01:00:59.214)
What in the world?

speaker-0 (01:01:01.07)
I've said on this podcast before, am unapologetically a fan of Rob Zombie's music. I don't give a shit, I'm old, it doesn't matter. I love his music. It speaks to me, a horror fan who makes dark music, dig it. Don't like his movies. I think House of a Thousand Corpses, I always think about how I almost got fooled by the first 20 minutes of that because it checked every box for me. Serial killers, the lighting style, just the unease that this movie, he was not recreating Texas Chainsaw.

speaker-2 (01:01:01.474)
Unbelievable.

speaker-0 (01:01:30.828)
He was recreating Texas chainsaw massacre part two. When they get into the layer of what was Dr. Yeah. When they get into the layer of Dr. Satan, it is all of this. It is all of the Christmas lights and lighting from this. He totally copped Texas chainsaw massacre too, but he just did it in an unoriginal way.

speaker-2 (01:01:36.994)
Dr. Satan.

speaker-2 (01:01:49.13)
One thing to do an homage, it's another to just completely steal the entire design of a film for your entire second half of your movie. yeah. Rob Zombie's films never really worked for me either. Although I do appreciate what he goes for. You know, I do think that there is like, he's taking big swings with stuff, but they've never clicked for me.

speaker-1 (01:02:07.756)
Yeah, I think that's part of why, right? It just kind of feels like a not good rehash of something that was good.

speaker-0 (01:02:14.004)
And as if it didn't seem like Texas Chainsaw Massacre Park 2 enough in House of Thousand Corpses, what would make it even like more on the nose that he's trying to steal? I don't know, maybe taking like the most popular character from the movie and then putting him in said movie? That would probably do it. As LG's at the top of the stairs with the coffee, Leatherface bursts through the door, he knocks LG to the floor, then Chop Top starts beating the shit out of him with a hammer. And in between,

hammer blows to the head, LG still manages to hawk a loogie and spit it. It's just like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.

speaker-2 (01:02:52.172)
I gotta go back to that when when leather face first like knocks the door down and the stunt double for LG falls over the Bannister of the stairs onto the desk, it's a nasty fall that that guy takes and like it kind of makes sense because it's a canon film and Canon films back then were notoriously very dangerous set sometimes and weren't have didn't have the best like, you know stunt coordinators running the show or if they did have good quality people they weren't given

know, the budgets to work with to do these things safely. So, yeah, it made sense. It tracked with a lot of other canon releases at that time.

speaker-1 (01:03:27.628)
Yeah, so just suck it up and fall and we hope we get it in a couple of takes.

speaker-2 (01:03:31.488)
Exactly.

speaker-0 (01:03:32.431)
yeah, so they just keep being the shit out of them and LG is convulsing.

speaker-1 (01:03:36.11)
Hands coming, yeah, and his hands are coming up and they're all blood.

speaker-0 (01:03:39.15)
everywhere. again, this is like when you know the fate of Perryman in real life, just hard to think about. Yeah. Just very, very sad. Yeah. Leatherface returns to the metal door upstairs trying to get stretch. He gives up and just decides to bust through the wall. Just why not? You're 300 pounds with a chainsaw. Just break through the wall.

speaker-2 (01:04:00.024)
And that shot is pretty iconic, he ripping through the wall with the chainsaw and attacking her initially. That scene, that first time I ever saw that scene is in the movie The Burbs, which is another great horror comedy, the Joe Dante film, Tom Hanks. There's a scene where Tom Hanks is like trying to sleep, but he can't or it's his dream or something and he gets up, he turns the TV on and that scene from Texas Chainsaw Massacre is what he's watching when he decides to get out of bed and walk around.

Yeah, and that terrified me as a kid too, because I saw the burbs at a young age and then seeing that scene and her screaming and all that just, yeah, that stuck with me too.

speaker-1 (01:04:36.236)
I'm not watching that one. Yeah.

speaker-0 (01:04:39.534)
This scene is something else. This is one of those scenes that makes up for a lot of the bad scenes. Stretch falls backwards as Leatherface busts through the wall and lands on, they have a six foot long cooler, metal cooler of ice and soft drinks, which I guess they can't afford a refrigerator. So that's just, that is what they have. So she falls backwards and lands sitting on this metal cooler filled with ice and soft drinks.

as Leatherface kind of peacocks with his chainsaw in front of her, showing off with the chainsaw, not really doing anything. Great editing here. We cut back and forth between Leatherface slamming the chainsaw down into the ice, ice and water and soda, spraying stretch. She's getting wet, cutting back to chop top, still beating LG's bloody mess of a face, spraying blood everywhere. We cut back and forth, spray blood, spray soda, spray blood, spray soda, back and forth.

Leatherface is now full on fucking the ice chest with the chainsaw. fucking it. Just ramming it into, she's kind of straddled the chest. Then we see a low angle and we kind of see what has caught Leatherface's eye because we see Caroline Williams, wet, sexy, bare legs as she's sitting on this cooler of ice. She's screaming until Leatherface lets the chainsaw turn off.

And we see his eyes start darting around looking at her and he starts noticing her legs and other parts. And then he just starts kind of dry humping the air with the chainsaw, stretch tries a different tactic and she starts to talk to him and she asks, are you mad at me?

speaker-2 (01:06:20.258)
That's one of the funniest lines of the movie to me. She's like, are you mad at me?

speaker-1 (01:06:25.292)
It's so good.

speaker-0 (01:06:27.446)
And her cute southern accent, how mad at me are you?

speaker-1 (01:06:30.818)
mad at me are you?

speaker-2 (01:06:32.095)
That's she's most concerned about having this psycho killer mad at her

speaker-1 (01:06:36.183)
Right.

speaker-0 (01:06:37.87)
And so she talks to him, which probably no woman has ever talked to him. Leatherface then looks back over shoulder towards the direction of Chop Top and he lowers the chainsaw and then starts eyeballing Stretch, probably the first woman to ever talk to him without screaming for mercy. He digs it. He licks his lips, which him licking his lips, which I think every Texas chainsaw after this, they have him lick his lips just because it works so well and it's so.

speaker-1 (01:07:02.646)
It's so gross in this scene, but yeah. Sorry, I just wanna say too, those are the moments when she says, you mad at me? It's so off-putting and it's funny and it makes you laugh, but then you actually start to think about it and you're like, it's actually very smart. And it stops him in his tracks. And you have to think about the psychology and the psychosis of somebody like a leather face, right?

And so she's just trying anything that she can that might work that will kind of dig in a little bit and hit different for him. know, I mean, it's so stupid, right? It's Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2, right? But like, there are some moments in this film where you're like, whoa.

speaker-2 (01:07:46.03)
Well, that's a good point. That's a good point. makes you wonder if anyone's ever actually been able to stop him long enough to actually ask him my question. Like, what is motivating you right now? What is, why are you doing this? Are you mad at me? What is the reason?

speaker-1 (01:07:57.42)
you mad at me? Right. What did I do? Is it me?

speaker-2 (01:08:01.07)
Right. And broke his brain a little bit. Yeah.

speaker-0 (01:08:04.78)
Yeah, and the tactic worked because he stops. then, then she, you can see like she's looking around, another great performance by Caroline Williams. So she changes the tactic a little more and she says, how good are you? And Leatherface looks down at her legs and her little daisy duke shorts and the camera tilts down with Leatherface so we can see where old Leatherface is looking. And he starts to make some moaning grunts and she asks him softly, how good?

Are you? And he starts caressing her leg with the chainsaw, moving the tip of the blade upper inner thigh, which is still dripping from the hack soda cans. Stretch starts slowly saying, you're really, really good. So he takes the tip of the chainsaw and hits pay dirt and holding the blade against her lady business. Stretch says, you're really good.

She tells him that he's the best and he starts to get a little too excited, starts quivering and shaking. Guys, I think we just witnessed Leatherface have a premature ejaculation.

speaker-1 (01:09:16.174)
I think we did too. pretty sure we did. So apparently she was like, when she read the script, she was like, my mom is going to see this. She was like, which in hindsight, watching it right pales in comparison to half the things that you see in films these days. But back then she was like, my God, my mom is going to have to watch this. You know, so funny.

speaker-2 (01:09:20.119)
Bro.

speaker-0 (01:09:38.924)
Like I said earlier about you really have to come to terms with the visceral gore of this with the humor. You kind of got to come to terms also with this violent fucked up murderer and how sexy they have Caroline Williams and the things she's saying, taking power. And it brings up conflicting emotions because look, they're lighting her sexy. are how she's.

speaker-1 (01:10:03.864)
Yeah!

speaker-0 (01:10:07.182)
covered in sodas, she's dripping, her hair's wet, her face is wet, her legs are wet. It's something to behold. Again, an exploration and mind-fuckery is this movie.

speaker-1 (01:10:17.644)
Yeah, because you think about a mass murder or a serial killer. mean, half of them, you know, rape their victims or whatever, right? And you're thinking, this is the kind of thing that they would love, that this is what makes them tick and do what they do. And so you feel like you're watching that. That's why I said the best word I can come up with for this film is just unhinged. It's just totally unhinged. And you are watching it raw.

speaker-0 (01:10:47.534)
Once he stops quivering, once he's done shooting his Texas load into his chainsaw pants, he cranks the chainsaw back up and starts screaming and slicing up the room with the chainsaw. He's like, I'm in a glass case of emotion. And I guess he is literally because he's in the booth and he starts kind of hacking up the DJ booth. Yeah, he doesn't know what to do. He's had this feeling for the first time ever. He starts just destroying both the control room and the booth.

speaker-1 (01:10:49.101)
Is finished.

speaker-0 (01:11:17.79)
And then he just starts dry humping the air with his chainsaw again, but way different than he did before. Like, this is my dick. And she's like, what the fuck have I done?

speaker-1 (01:11:28.258)
Yeah, I created more of a monster.

speaker-0 (01:11:30.946)
but he runs out of the room and leaves Stretch unharmed and runs back down to join Chop Top. So it works. So down in the lobby, Chop Top asks if he got her and Leatherface lies to his brother and says he did. And he says, you get her good. And he's like shaking his head, but still kind of looking back over his shoulder, you know. And then they drag LG's bloody body out with them and Chop Top.

speaker-2 (01:11:53.4)
Somehow it's still alive, like after the bludgeoning he just took. Jesus.

speaker-0 (01:11:57.698)
That was another one of those shocking moments we'll get to later where it's just like, holy shit, you're not doing this. Are you really doing this? Yeah, which just makes this movie special because they talk about having no filter like, yeah, fuck it, we're gonna do that. So yeah, Chop Top puts on his cowboy hat and they drag his body out. Stretch comes out of the destroyed station and sees them driving away. And she says, they can't get away, God damn it, left a year late. So she jumps in her Jeep and she takes off after them and follows them, which gutsy heroin we got here.

speaker-1 (01:12:28.076)
Absolutely.

speaker-0 (01:12:29.112)
So she follows them to the old abandoned Texas battle land amusement park. Great location. She parks her Jeep and takes off on foot following through this really cool row of arches that almost look like rib cages. It's like a tunnel of these pipes that look like a giant rib cage. And then as she's following the truck on foot, a car pulls up behind her and starts chasing her. So she starts running through this tunnel as this car is following her. And then she

gets to this point where she realizes the truck is stopped in front of her, the car is behind her and she doesn't know what to do, and then he gets out of the car and says, stretch, and she says, lefty.

speaker-1 (01:13:10.6)
Ha ha ha!

speaker-0 (01:13:11.95)
And that's it. Those two were stretching Lefty. Yeah, and then suddenly the ground beneath her feet opens up and she falls into the chute, but she's still hanging on dangling by these branches and debris hasn't fallen all the way down in the chute. Lefty comes up and looks down and she asks where he was and he tells her that he had to use her as bait. And he grabs a branch, holds it out to her to grab onto, but it's not a branch, it's a skeleton arm. And as she grabs hold, the hand breaks loose from the arm.

And she goes spiraling down the chute, down a spiral slide, landing on a skeleton before breaking through another level and falling into this underground lair of our evil family. Lefty realizes he's holding a severed arm and then runs to his car, opens the trunk, and with a golden glow from the trunk, he pulls out the two small chainsaws, straps them to his back and grabs that big old boy and begins praying for strength.

speaker-2 (01:14:07.086)
This is where Dennis Hopper, like, the movie starts to kind of unravel a little bit for me once we get here because we're about to, you know, we're going to dig into those scenes in a minute, but so much of this becomes him just running around with chainsaws, destroying the foundation of this place, and it just gets a bit tedious after a while. I have a theory about this movie that I think, I wonder if it would have been...

speaker-1 (01:14:27.979)
Yeah, and it's

speaker-2 (01:14:33.954)
had a little bit more legs to it or if it might have been more well received if it had been revealed somehow that like Dennis Hopper was part of this family and that there was like I would have liked to have seen a little more of Dennis Hopper over the top being part of this Sawyer family. I don't know. I think we would have gotten more craziness out of Dennis Hopper. Maybe that's what he didn't want to do. He was, you know, trying to be the grounded hero, I guess, of the story. But because of the career trajectory he ends up going on, especially with Blue Velvet, like

I can just see a world in which like, what if Dennis Hopper's character was the head of this family or, you know, the other son that kind of made it out, but now he's being pulled back in by the family or something like that, because I could just see that and see it really working well, but that's not the movie we got, so.

speaker-1 (01:15:20.108)
Not. Maybe he didn't like the film because he thought I'm going to be the hero of this movie and he's not.

speaker-0 (01:15:27.31)
I kept expecting like the scene in Big Trouble in Little China when Kurt Russell shoots the beam above him and it all just collapses on him. He's knocked out for the whole battle. I thought that was gonna happen.

speaker-2 (01:15:38.254)
would have been great.

speaker-0 (01:15:39.842)
Lefty has his chainsaws, he's praying for strength. He runs into a side entrance to the abandoned park and steps inside to see that the chainsaw family loves Christmas lights. There's just Christmas lights as far as the eye could see. He walks up on a mural and sees that blood is dripping from the mouth of the person on the mural. And he kicks a hole, cool effect, kicks a hole into the mural and out pours entrails, blood, guts, all types of goodies right onto the ground.

And he says, it's the devil's playground.

speaker-2 (01:16:15.31)
Just in case you weren't catching that yourself.

speaker-1 (01:16:17.166)
Yeah, right. Yeah, that's where the meat is marinating for the chili

speaker-0 (01:16:22.36)
They'd need a better disposal system than just putting all the entrails behind the walls. Or maybe it's time to make chillings.

speaker-1 (01:16:30.508)
Yeah, they're never going to pass a health inspection with that one.

speaker-0 (01:16:33.184)
No, they are not. Absolutely not. Lefty says it's the devil's playground, cranks up the chainsaw and says, I'm bringing it down, down to hell. And starts hacking away at support beams with the chainsaw. This is a lot of upstairs, downstairs here too. It's like lower level, upper level, lower level, upper level. Lower level, Stretch realizes that she's in the belly of the beast. She hears Drayton yelling at his boys and sees all these body parts hanging from meat hooks.

She hears someone coming into the door. She hides behind this 55 gallon drum and Leatherface comes inside and grabs this small electric handsaw and then Chop Top joins him and says, peel that pig and slice him thick. That's my sweet meat. And Drayton joins them and he mentions that they've got a big order to fill. And if you haven't gotten it by now, Soylent Green barbecue is people. Let's hope everyone has gotten it by now.

Stretch watches as Leatherface works at a body. She can only see the legs of the body and he's working at this body with his handsaw and he keeps cutting pieces, hanging pieces of skin from meat hooks. And then Leatherface pulls the face and the scalp from this corpse and holds it up to admire it. And then Stretch accidentally knocks over a pile of hooks that are leaning against the trash. Leatherface grabs a meat claver, walks over to her and realizes that it's her, that it's his girlfriend, that it's his crush. So many conflicting emotions here.

speaker-2 (01:17:59.967)
Die.

speaker-0 (01:18:01.334)
Leatherface leans down, strokes her face with his bloody hand, and then Chop Top comes in, followed by Drayton, who tells Leatherface to get that eyeball pate a-workin'. So many lines of Drayton are bloated, but I thought that one was pretty funny.

speaker-2 (01:18:18.926)
mean, he doesn't have a single line in the movie that isn't like a tongue-in-cheek joke. There's not a single other moment where he's not making some sort of like reference or, you know, humorous slant on something. Like that's every single thing he says, which he says a lot. Half the time I don't catch what he's saying because there's so much other noise happening that you're not even like, did he make another goofy barbecue people reference that I didn't catch? Like, yeah, he's endless.

speaker-1 (01:18:24.183)
Right.

speaker-0 (01:18:47.416)
Yeah, he is the endless. Stretch asks Leatherface to help her get out of here. Leatherface nods then puts the freshly carved face onto Stretch.

speaker-2 (01:18:57.486)
She is so good in that moment too.

speaker-1 (01:18:59.822)
It's wet. mean, that has got to be real fear too. You know what I mean? Just looking at somebody like that, they're putting this, God, this face on her face.

speaker-0 (01:19:14.786)
You know it's fucking hot in there. Yeah. It's.

speaker-1 (01:19:17.08)
Yes, and that's wet and it's, yeah, but she's so good and you feel all of that fear. Yeah.

speaker-0 (01:19:28.28)
She tries to pull it off, but then he yanks her hands down. He doesn't want her to take it off. And then he motions for her to stay here. And then he goes and gets LG's cowboy hat and puts it on. So she doesn't even know yet that she's wearing LG's face in his cowboy hat. Doesn't have a clue. She just thinks it's somebody else's face.

speaker-1 (01:19:45.802)
Mm-hmm, but this is the only thing he can think of to save her, right? He's trying. Sloth loves junk.

speaker-0 (01:19:50.274)
He's trying, he's trying.

speaker-0 (01:19:54.766)
This is a man willing to put in the work. This is a man who will go to therapy to save a relationship.

speaker-1 (01:20:00.654)
And after this next scene, she's gonna need some serious therapy.

speaker-2 (01:20:05.72)
She didn't

speaker-0 (01:20:08.782)
So he stands her up wearing LG's face and cowboy hat and starts dancing with her and twirling her and dancing. She's just like a Marionette. While they're dancing, we cut back to Lefty. We're gonna say this a lot. We cut back to Lefty who's still going at it chainsaw and support beam shockingly not loud enough for the people below to hear his chainsaw, but debris is starting to fall. Some debris falls onto stretch and leather face.

interrupting their dance. Leatherface ties, stretches arms behind her back with some rope, closes the door behind him, stretch stands up. The rope keeps her from pulling the mask off. So she's still trapped with LG's face on her face. She tries to escape, but the rope is tethered to a hook. So she's stuck. Then the body that Leatherface has been working on, unbeknownst to her, LG, raises up into frame.

and then Stretch realizes that it's LG and that she's wearing his face. Awkward.

speaker-2 (01:21:11.726)
The shot of her standing up for the first time with her hands tied back trying to reach for the little raptor arm style, trying to reach for the mask is so creepy looking. Like it looks so disturbing while she's trying to do that.

speaker-0 (01:21:26.958)
It makes me feel very claustrophobic.

speaker-2 (01:21:28.716)
Yeah, yeah.

speaker-1 (01:21:30.178)
This is one of those like esoteric moments, right? Where you're thinking, what are they trying to like say here as filmmakers? I mean, it is beautifully done by Tom Savini. I mean, it is just unbelievable what LG looks like and his lack of face. He is still alive staring at the woman that he loves wearing his fucking face. What in the

fuck kind of film are we watching? And his hat, it's mind boggling and blowing and I'm just fucking love it.

speaker-2 (01:22:09.752)
Then he sits up and hawks a big ol' loogie.

speaker-1 (01:22:12.398)
That's right, that's what I was gonna say. And then this is where LaLugui comes back in, you know? mean, it's like Keys in E.T., right? That's his name, right? Peter Coyote. Because that's what you always see, is his Keys, you know, jangling. This is the same type of thing to me.

speaker-0 (01:22:28.888)
Are you saying LG should have been named Lugi?

speaker-1 (01:22:31.65)
That's right. That's right. He should have been named Lugui. LG, that's what it stands for. Lugui.

speaker-0 (01:22:37.666)
Wait, you just blew my mind!

speaker-1 (01:22:40.78)
Yeah, maybe. Loo-gee.

speaker-0 (01:22:42.382)
Okay!

speaker-2 (01:22:44.526)
This is why think when horror comedy can really be at its best, you know, when you have truly horrifying imagery of him waking up, seeing this woman he loves wearing his face. That's, I mean, objectively disgusting and terrifying. And then his introduction is to Haka Big Lugi again. So it kind of brings you back into comedy while looking at this horrendous, horrible situation, you know, just really, really well done.

speaker-0 (01:23:11.958)
I'm trying to move forward, but I'm still trying to process LG LU-GEE.

speaker-1 (01:23:16.366)
You're welcome, This is why I get paid the big bucks as your co-host.

speaker-2 (01:23:18.574)
I've been just hanging on this for a while.

speaker-0 (01:23:23.594)
I'm shocked. He struggles to his feet and we see that he's missing most of the skin from his stomach and his chest. He's struggling to stand so he hangs onto a meat hook. He spits another loogie and he says, we got to get you loose. And he grabs a butcher knife and he staggers over to her. turns around and with the butcher knife, he's having these muscle spasms and you don't know if he's going to stab her in the back or if he's just trying to control without all this flesh.

but it looks almost like he's been overcome by this mad family and he's become a part of it. And so he like takes three stabs towards her before he finally focuses and he cuts the rope loose.

speaker-1 (01:24:01.036)
Yeah, that's the other thing that's like crazy about the scene, right? So you have this guy who is basically stripped down and he like truly like skin off the bone, right? And you're thinking, is that what switches the mind? Right? So it's, think this film is playing on some of those things in such an interesting way, right? Like what causes your mind to flip? Did it happen to him?

Is he about to kill her? It is an unhinged moment in an unhinged, already completely unhinged scene. I just think that this movie does a great job of layering some of that stuff in where upon first viewing, you're like, man, this is just fucking weird and gross. But like, when you actually really think about what's going on, it's quite interesting.

speaker-0 (01:24:51.508)
It gives you no compass because you're like, it going to kill her? Why? Why is he going to kill her? I don't understand. Why would that happen? Talk about like suspension of disbelief. Not even that. It's just like questions. I'm like, let questions go and just live in the moment unless it's like a trauma moment where you'd like have to call it out. Yeah. So he cuts the rope loose. So she's free and he falls onto the ground and he says, I guess I'm falling apart on you, honey.

speaker-1 (01:25:08.395)
Right.

speaker-1 (01:25:17.465)
LG!

speaker-0 (01:25:18.574)
And he falls on the ground, he grimaces a couple of times, and he lets out this big breath and he just goes, shit.

speaker-1 (01:25:29.57)
Which is again, it's like so terrifying to think about what he really went through later in his life.

speaker-0 (01:25:34.735)
I know, it's like, where are those last words?

speaker-1 (01:25:38.188)
Right,

speaker-2 (01:25:40.056)
rough.

speaker-0 (01:25:42.776)
So Stretch removes his face from hers, puts it onto his face, and puts his hat on his chest, and Stretch says, LG, I loved you. So you should have told him that when he was alive. So Stretch is free now. So she tries to sneak deeper into the lair, but goes exactly where the family is. I think I would have tried to climb up the slide maybe as my first option, but she goes right into where they are.

speaker-2 (01:25:56.206)
Right.

speaker-0 (01:26:10.252)
And we see Drayton going on a tirade as Chop Top is dancing around with the corpse of his brother Nubbins. And I think that's the first time we've seen Nubbins since the beginning of the film, right?

speaker-2 (01:26:19.031)
Might be, yeah.

speaker-1 (01:26:19.924)
Mm-hmm at some point. He says nubbins to I can't remember what point he does Yeah

speaker-0 (01:26:24.706)
Drayton does later. Yeah. Chop-Top says brother. He calls him brother a couple of times. So up top, Lefty continues buzzing away at the foundation until more debris starts to fall down below. But Drayton just thinks it's from structural damage. They still can't, here's Chainsaw. Stret sneaks above the family and looks down on them as Drayton is complaining about the property taxes on this place. And Chop-Top tells him, well, it's time for my idea. It's time. It's what the people want.

It's NAMM land. While the family argues, which they do a lot, Stretch tries to make run for it, but they see her running into a tunnel behind them, like a rabbit running from tunnel to tunnel and from behind them and they all turn and look. They don't know what it was. They're a little confused. So back up top again, hacking away. Lefty comes across the corpse of his nephew, Franklin Hardesty from Texas Chainsaw, still sitting in his wheelchair. Lefty kneels down and touches his arm and the flashlight.

speaker-1 (01:26:56.101)
god.

speaker-0 (01:27:22.626)
Franklin was holding in Texas Chainsaw that he wouldn't cough up turns on.

speaker-2 (01:27:26.794)
It's that flashlight still held on all these-

speaker-1 (01:27:28.652)
God, all those years.

speaker-0 (01:27:30.574)
Here's what I'm thinking. That light meant he was now at peace. He was his light going on. His last moment's trapped in hell and he was now being freed to move on.

speaker-2 (01:27:44.11)
That's beautiful, Bart.

speaker-1 (01:27:45.166)
Throw to the lot, Carol Ann. There is peace and serenity in the light.

speaker-0 (01:27:52.824)
So Lefty says, don't cry my brother, I'm here now. And starts back to saw and saying, I'll take you back to hell. Back down again in the lair filled with more Christmas lights, stretch can't find a way out, then sees a path, but then a chainsaw starts buzzing and the exit collapses. It was fucking Lefty. Lefty.

speaker-1 (01:28:13.762)
You're not helping, lefty. Stop!

speaker-0 (01:28:16.398)
Maybe Lefty's not very good at this. So she's trapped, she turns around, Stretch runs through the long corridor of corpses, lamps, and Christmas lights, which kind of reminds me of Tad's old trailer park in Memphis a little bit. Except for the corpses, as far as we know. Stretch is running down the corridor, back down the corridor again, and she's met this time by Leatherface, who chases her back in the other direction. And just as she's getting to the other exit at the...

speaker-2 (01:28:19.256)
Clearly not.

speaker-1 (01:28:30.627)
yeah.

speaker-2 (01:28:31.054)
indoor trailer park.

speaker-0 (01:28:45.96)
Other end, lefty, somehow has arrived at that one as well and chainsaws that one and it collapses. So she's now trapped in there with leather face.

speaker-1 (01:28:55.118)
I just don't understand why they even wrote it like this.

speaker-2 (01:28:58.37)
assuming that he was intentionally trying to bring it down to trap himself down there because he stated before that he was willing to die for this so it felt like he was doing it intentionally because it's like I'm not getting out of here so may as well bring this whole place down and try to trap them in here even if I get killed I don't know that's that's my read on it at least

speaker-0 (01:29:18.066)
Or was it they were trying to keep their shoot days with him to a minimum? so we, I mean, it was always hearing it happen, but he wasn't in those scenes. Like, okay, we got 20 minutes, we're gonna shoot you cutting shit, and then the rest of the time, you're just gonna be off screen.

speaker-2 (01:29:31.438)
That's the real logic behind it, I'm sure. It does make me think, I did notice at the very beginning, in the opening credits of the movie, not to go all the way back, but I did notice that the UPM, first AD and second AD all had above the line credits, and it makes me wonder, how bad did this shoot go that those folks got to negotiate their credit above the line? You know, because it must have been a nightmare to deal with.

speaker-1 (01:29:33.17)
Now

speaker-1 (01:29:52.662)
Yeah, yeah.

speaker-0 (01:29:54.062)
You are probably right. So Lefty has trapped Stretch against the broken down exit with Leatherface. And she says, this isn't going to work out. So they continue the whole relationship thing with her breaking up with him. And she asks him to let her go, but he shakes his head no. And with sadness in his eyes, he's actually sad about that he knows he can't let her go now.

speaker-1 (01:30:20.3)
Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-0 (01:30:21.902)
So he shakes his head no, and then Drayton and Chop Top show up and they find Stretch. Drayton thinks she's the one that's been fucking up the house, but Chop Top tells him that it's the DJ, my fave. So Chop Top says, Bubba's been playing with her, Bubba likes her. Bubba's got a girlfriend, Bubba's got a girlfriend, Bubba's got a girlfriend, Bubba's got a girlfriend. And then Drayton says, is this what this is about, Bubba?

speaker-2 (01:30:46.027)
my god, so f***ing cool.

speaker-0 (01:30:51.279)
S C E X

speaker-1 (01:30:53.572)
Yes.

speaker-0 (01:30:56.11)
Drayton tells Leatherface to finish her now and then Leatherface shakes his head no he can't because he loves her he can't do it so Drayton grabs the chainsaw from Leatherface and says turn traitor for a piece of tail he said you got one choice boy sex or the saw sex is well nobody knows but the saw is family

speaker-2 (01:31:18.062)
And that sums it all up for them right there.

speaker-1 (01:31:20.012)
Yeah, right. There it is.

speaker-0 (01:31:22.412)
Yep. So Chop Top knocks her out with a bone from the ground and she wakes up strapped to the end of the dinner tables. Sitting in a chair made of a skeleton. She wakes up screaming and Drayton tells her that she's the first girl that Bubba has brought home to dinner. Grandpa is going to love meeting you. 137 years old, but still as fast as Jesse James. I think there was, when I first saw this, I think there was a part of me that was like, we're doing this again?

speaker-1 (01:31:29.196)
my

speaker-2 (01:31:50.126)
What's the only part of the movie that is like a callback to the original really? You know, like it comes to like a scene really.

speaker-1 (01:31:56.822)
Well, yeah, yeah, it's all very much an homage, even the bucket and her head over the bucket and all of that.

speaker-0 (01:32:04.632)
I guess if it's the same family and it's their tradition, I guess that's what they would do.

speaker-1 (01:32:09.1)
Right? they were pissed that it didn't work the first time.

speaker-0 (01:32:12.728)
But how many times has it happened that we don't know about? They've been traveling for 13 years. From town to town, up and down the dial.

speaker-1 (01:32:15.925)
Mm-hmm, that's true.

speaker-2 (01:32:19.838)
seems to quite work the way they want because grandpa can't ever like actually barge in anyone to death or

speaker-0 (01:32:26.712)
your shit together, Grandpa.

speaker-1 (01:32:28.469)
Yes, poor crimp.

speaker-2 (01:32:31.458)
Yeah, four.

speaker-0 (01:32:32.286)
Speaking of old grandpa, Chop Top and Leatherface wheel grandpa in in his wheelchair and Drayton tells her that grandpa threw in the towel on the butcher business when automation came in. Drayton tells her that grandpa is a one hitter. He tells Leatherface to bring her to grandpa, but Leatherface again is torn. He throws, he pats his heart, but then also then kind of reaches to his girl. Like he doesn't know what to do. Like, I don't know if this is my heart or my dick.

speaker-2 (01:32:58.53)
His performance in this scene is the best leather face performance in the movie. when Drayton's telling him, bring her over, bring her over, he's like looking at her and then looking back at him like, I don't know if I should, you know? He's kind of shrugging and yeah, he's really, really funny.

speaker-1 (01:33:12.482)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (01:33:13.666)
Then he plants a kiss on her lips. She gets a taste of that leather face mouth. I wonder how often the face mask gets washed. I'm going to guess never. He takes her over to grandpa at his wheelchair. Chop top puts the hammer in grandpa's hand. He has a hammer in one hand and a ladle in the other and starts.

speaker-2 (01:33:15.661)
Nuff.

speaker-2 (01:33:27.682)
Hopefully they had more than one.

speaker-0 (01:33:39.106)
Just licking the ladle is so gross. So he drops the hammer, he keeps dropping the hammer, they keep picking it up, putting back his hand, he keeps dropping it. He tries to hit her in the head but misses, they keep putting it in his hand. Finally, he hits her once with the hammer, but then runs out of steam, and then Drayton just grabs the hammer and hits, struts in the back of the head, knocks her out cold. Just as Chop Top is ladling some of her blood for Grandpa to drink, Lefty finally breaks through Chainsaw Ablazin.

singing, bringing in the sheaves. And at first you think he's like in the room with them, but he's not yet. He's still breaking through levels. The family's a little spooked as they listened to him singing from above and then left. jumps down from the tunnel, lands on the ground with the family looking on and says, boys, boys, boys, you never should have been doing this. And this is a Drayton still a little confused. And this is where we were talking about earlier where

speaker-1 (01:34:10.202)
my god.

speaker-2 (01:34:15.406)
Right.

speaker-0 (01:34:37.954)
They don't think what they're doing is bad. It's just business. So he says, who sent you thinking he is a catering competitor. I love that part. Yeah. He pulls out a stack of bills and he wants to pay him off. And he says, who sent you, who are you? And left. says, I'm the Lord of the harvest. And Drayton replies, who's that? Some new health food bunch. he's still thinking in terms of business versus business and not that anyone would come.

speaker-1 (01:34:40.75)
of

speaker-2 (01:35:01.251)
Yeah

speaker-2 (01:35:06.218)
Come for revenge of the numerous people that have been murdered by them over the years now. It's just a chili cook-off competitor.

speaker-0 (01:35:09.934)
Exactly.

Right. I'm real. Someone's jealousy of my trophies. So Stretch comes to, raises up, sees Lefty, calls out, Lefty. He replies, sister, and cranks up the chainsaw, immediately sticks it to Drayton's ass as he's running away. Just nailing Drayton right up the ass. Drayton runs and hides under the table as Lefty cuts the rope on Stretch's wrist with the chainsaw and tells her to run. Lefty and Leatherface have an old fashioned chainsaw battle.

as Stretch runs back into the labyrinth where she's chased by Chop Top.

speaker-2 (01:35:46.038)
A chainsaw duel too is also like, the idea of it is usually better than the execution. They do a good job here, but chainsaws are so weighty and heavy and cumbersome to swing around. So they try to treat them like swords and they don't quite work the same way. And so it's always like a little awkward. So you have to cut around that a lot, but they managed to do this one pretty well.

speaker-0 (01:36:06.926)
And also I wonder, you know, Leatherface has been in the biz probably his whole life. Lefty a little new to it. I don't know if Lefty practices at home, but if he practices at home, you think he'd just bring his own chainsaws, maybe he'd travel with chainsaws?

speaker-2 (01:36:18.964)
We saw him practicing earlier at the shop.

speaker-1 (01:36:22.178)
Yeah, what the stump. My God.

speaker-0 (01:36:24.632)
He really did hold his own against a seasoned pro. Drayton hides under the table. He's complaining about how the small businessman always gets the shaft and then grimaces and says, took care of my hems, saves me a trip to the hospital, pulls his hand away from his ass and sees the blood all over it and says, looks bad. He sure burned my beans bad on that one.

speaker-2 (01:36:28.718)
Alright.

speaker-1 (01:36:47.623)
lord.

speaker-2 (01:36:49.58)
He's just unrelenting in his one life.

speaker-1 (01:36:51.624)
my god, never stops.

speaker-0 (01:36:55.278)
The chainsaw battle continues and Chop Top continues to pursue Strats through the labyrinth. Then Lefty gets the upper hand and shoves his chainsaw into Leatherface's belly as Drayton reflects on shutting the whole show down from under the table. He pulls the corpse of Nubbins under the table with him and says, where's that old fuck you Charlie? And starts digging through Nubbins' pockets looking for something. With Lefty's big chainsaw sticking all the way through

Leatherface's belly and out of his back. Leatherface continues to fight him and now Lefty pulls out both the small chain saws and he's fighting him with the small chain saws.

speaker-1 (01:37:36.024)
turns him towards the camera in this really cool shot, right? And then turns him to the side. Like it's very intentional the way that they do that. It's very cool.

speaker-0 (01:37:46.296)
Just in case you thought we phoned this in, no.

speaker-1 (01:37:48.354)
Yeah, guess what? We sure didn't. Here it is.

speaker-0 (01:37:52.588)
And if we did phone it in, hang up, hang up, hang up, hang up, hang up, hang up, hang up, hang up, hang up, hang up, hang up, up. Okay, sorry. How'd you get that last one out? You're The battle keeps going. Grandpa gets up from his chair and starts walking towards lefty with a hammer in his hand and Drayton finds the hidden grenade and nubbins corpse pulls it out.

speaker-1 (01:38:03.512)
You

speaker-2 (01:38:06.946)
Yeah, thank you for that.

speaker-1 (01:38:09.154)
Hello.

speaker-0 (01:38:20.802)
Cut back to the labyrinth, chop top and stretch, continue fighting, stretch, grabs one of the many, many, many, many, many lamps that are lit in the labyrinth, shoves it into Chop Top's metal plate and electrocutes him, and then heads up the stairs to the exit. An exit sign, just like from the radio station.

speaker-1 (01:38:39.416)
That's right, from the radio station. Who knows? E-X-I-T!

speaker-0 (01:38:46.402)
Leatherface falls backwards on the table and his saw goes through the table cutting Drayton causing him to drop the grenade.

speaker-1 (01:38:53.71)
I just realized I think Drayton is Foghorn Leghorn.

speaker-2 (01:38:59.79)
I can see that. Yeah.

speaker-1 (01:39:01.804)
That's who he reminds I've been trying to figure it out. Who is he? He reminds me of Foghorn Leghorn.

speaker-0 (01:39:08.802)
I'm still stuck on Don Knotts from Three's Company. Stretch has made it outside. Atop the stairs of the old amusement park, Chop Top has pulled himself together after being electrocuted and is following her, slicing her as she runs up the stairs with the straight razor, which, ooh man, the razor blade, I just kind of flinch every time he hacks her with the razor.

speaker-1 (01:39:28.144)
Well, and he does the same thing in the first film. Yeah. Yep.

speaker-2 (01:39:30.702)
And it gets even worse at the very end.

speaker-0 (01:39:32.99)
yeah, my God, like 30, 40 times. So yeah, he's hacking at her with a straight razor. She kicks him and he falls out and he's hanging onto these like emergency stairs and kind of swings out as they're on this big monument outside. Very great location. Just a weird ass, probably an actual amusement park location. Don't know what that represents or anything, but it's just as like this almost like Adobe Tower.

He's hanging on onto that emergency stairwell. She runs up the stairs to the top of the exhibit to find grandma's shrine in this room of bones. Grandma is sitting in the shrine with a chainsaw in her lap. Fucking grandmother's alive? Like, what the hell? Is she alive? We don't know. But Chop Top manages to get back up onto the stairs. He gets into the room with Stretch.

tells her to look at his face as he cuts his own throat with the straight razor and he cuts it several times.

speaker-1 (01:40:33.986)
Bye.

speaker-2 (01:40:34.919)
really yeah that's tough

speaker-0 (01:40:36.544)
and says, it's just like death eating a cracker, ain't it? Rob Zombie, wish, you wish.

speaker-1 (01:40:43.96)
Ish. Ish.

speaker-2 (01:40:46.432)
Never in a million years, Mr. Zombie.

speaker-0 (01:40:48.674)
Nope. Stretch then turns to the grandmother, pulls the chainsaw from her corpse's grasp, and the whole time Chop Top's like, what are you doing? Get away from her! Leave her alone! Don't touch her! She's trying to crank it up, but Chop Top runs to his grandmother and says, you killed her, you hog bitch! I don't think your grandmother was alive.

speaker-1 (01:41:04.201)
speaker-2 (01:41:09.782)
Yeah, I don't think she was hanging on.

speaker-1 (01:41:11.394)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (01:41:12.409)
So he runs over as stretch has the chainsaw on the floor trying to crank it up It's not cranking and he just starts slashing the fuck out of her with this straight razor 30 40 50 times

speaker-2 (01:41:24.494)
uncomfortable things to sit there and watch that happen because if anyone else is in that situation you're trying to crank up that chainsaw you're giving up after two pulls while this guy's lacing you right you have no idea that this thing even works how long has it been up here is have any gas in it

speaker-1 (01:41:39.438)
Meanwhile, he should have just kicked it away from her.

speaker-2 (01:41:41.686)
Right, exactly. But no, he's just having a good old time.

speaker-1 (01:41:44.93)
Yeah, just lashing her up.

speaker-0 (01:41:46.776)
Yep, just doing serious damage. And then finally it cranks and she raises it up, nails Chop Top with it a couple of times, really no defense from Chop Top. She just sort of sticks him in the gut, rips his guts open, sends him falling backwards down into the tunnel and back down to the lower level below. And in a wide shot of the amusement park tower, we see Stretch going full leather face, spinning and twisting and screaming.

Just like Leatherface at the end of Texas Chainsaw 1, she does it here. The end. We never got a grenade explosion.

speaker-2 (01:42:25.102)
heard it, we hear the explosion, we never really see the aftermath or exactly what happened to everyone. We have to assume, I guess, that they were all killed. Yeah. But you don't really get any real like release from that. There's no closure. There's no release from it. You're not like, oh, they got them or like, oh, there's a mystery. Are they still around? just kind of gives up on it. Kind of disappointing.

speaker-1 (01:42:36.408)
close.

speaker-0 (01:42:45.964)
Now that we are in the world we live in with sequels, maybe that was intentional. just, because you do want to see like 137 year old grandfather blown the fuck up, you know, to pay for it. But maybe the sort of like, you don't know who died. We'll see how this movie does. And then if it does well, we'll maybe do a third one.

speaker-1 (01:43:04.054)
Yeah.

speaker-2 (01:43:05.294)
Which they did, which the third one ended up not even referencing anything from the second one. So there was no connecting tissue there.

speaker-0 (01:43:14.562)
That is Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 2, my friends.

speaker-2 (01:43:19.394)
Woohoo! What a film. How about that?

speaker-1 (01:43:23.533)
I love it.

speaker-2 (01:43:24.152)
You know, this movie fascinates me for Toby Hooper's career because, you know, Texas Chainsaw Massacre hits in 74, obviously becomes one of the most influential movies ever made. then, you know, he does Poltergeist, which, you know, I think, you know, he does a few other things in between then, but does Poltergeist, which is a huge, huge hit, massive success. Right. But as everyone knows, he never really gets the credit for that movie.

speaker-1 (01:43:27.406)
career? Yeah.

speaker-2 (01:43:52.302)
Everybody says, oh, it's only successful because of Spielberg. And I don't recall if Tobe Hooper ever tried to combat those things. I Spielberg did come to his defense and say, no, no, no, no, this is Tobe's movie. But then you look at the rest of his career, he signs with Canon Films, which was probably the worst thing he could have done, really, even though he got a few movies made. He did Invaders from Mars, and then he did, or I guess Life Force, and then Invaders from Mars, which both of those have their fans, you know, they're fine for what they are. Yeah, it's...

speaker-1 (01:43:54.988)
Right.

speaker-0 (01:44:20.161)
I love Life Force.

speaker-2 (01:44:22.144)
ridiculous and great. then, like, I wonder if, like, this is me just making assumptions, but, was his confidence, like, so shaken by Poltergeist and it like that being such a success, but him not getting the credit and then the other two movies he does with Canon, those movies seem to they don't do very well and he gets total credit for those. Does he now then do Texas Chainsaw Massacre in a completely different way to like?

I don't know if it's like a fuck you necessarily, but in a way it kind of feels like it might be, you know? And so instead of like, I'm gonna rehash my old film, I'm gonna kind of, you know, tear it apart a little bit. I'm gonna make a totally over-the-top zany version of it, because why not? You know, obviously he never makes another nationally released film, nothing, you know, a theatrically released movie after this. Everything he does is just these, you know, I never watched, I don't think I've seen any of the movies he did subsequently in the 90s or anything, but...

I don't know, it's a fascinating career because the man made one of, if not the most terrifying movie ever made and then had great success with Poltergeist. And so it's weird that like his filmography never really got more recognition or more, never got more opportunities with an actual budget to work with.

speaker-0 (01:45:32.92)
Yeah, I know I feel bad for him. I think most people do just because we will never know the truth. People that worked on Poltergeist have their opinions and they're conflicting. Not everybody says it was Spielberg. It'd be different if everybody said the same thing, but there are conflicting opinions about how that went down. I'm sure it had to hurt him to know like, made this big budget movie and I'm not getting any credit for it. So it's like, I'm not getting a three picture deal after this. Everybody just assumes it was Spielberg. So that had to hurt.

It happens with co-songwriters in bands all the time. know, like when one band member gets more credit and then the other band member is like, this is my fucking band. And then they break up because they don't get enough credit for it. I don't want to say it's a heartbreak because he did continue to make really good films, but it's a shame. It's a shame that he didn't get the credit he deserved. And fuck it, I don't give a shit. I don't give a shit what the situation was on Poultry Guys. He sat in that director's chair.

He had one of the best directors of all time sitting next to him as his producer. Yes, he's gonna influence how it goes down. And yes, he's probably gonna have to defer to him a lot because of who he is, but he's still in that position. And he has these other films like this, like Texas Chainsaw, like Life Force. But yeah, he's a very good director.

speaker-1 (01:46:50.702)
Maybe people were just confused because he and Spielberg kinda do resemble each other.

speaker-0 (01:46:55.63)
I did, that's true. Yeah, I was always a joy to watch this movie. I think I said to you, Joey, before we started, as I get older, I see more flaws in it that I didn't see when I was younger. There are a lot of bad scenes in this, but the great scenes outweigh the bad ones by so much that I will always champion and love this film.

speaker-2 (01:47:19.478)
the same. can't remember who said it but some famous director once said a great movie is Billy Wilder. A great film should have at least three great scenes and no bad scenes. This movie has three great scenes but several bad scenes so it doesn't quite nail it according to Billy Wilder but it's still a lot of fun to watch.

speaker-1 (01:47:39.936)
I love it for all the reasons. I think it hits all the right notes. And I kind of love what they did with this film. I think it's got a lot of that same heart of terror and core of terror and these characters, these new characters, you know, and again, and I forgive all of those bad scenes. So should we jump into some of our kind of signature questions here, Bart? What do you think?

speaker-0 (01:48:03.906)
Yeah, I think we should.

speaker-1 (01:48:05.624)
So as you know, Joey, being your second time around hosting, we have our signature wrap up questions. Joe, a two timer. He's a two timer. We're going to get a jacket for everybody like SNL. comedy horror meter. You talked about this a little bit before, but elaborate. On a scale from straight up horror to full on comedy, where does this one land for you?

speaker-2 (01:48:19.63)
There we go.

speaker-2 (01:48:33.55)
I would say it's probably 80 % horror, 20 % comedy because you're never gonna convince someone who likes comedy to watch this movie. I think with Return of the Living Dead, you could probably get more people interested in comedy to go for that, but this is gruesome in a way that just saying it's a sequel to Texas Chainsaw Massacre is not going to get any comedy fans excited about watching it, and it's really gross. It's really, really gross and horrifying.

I would lean way more heavily into this being a horror film with a lot of comedic tone to it with endless bad one-liners from our pal Jim Seedal.

speaker-1 (01:49:13.419)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. What do you think, Bart?

speaker-0 (01:49:15.214)
Yeah, about the same. was gonna say 7525 just to be different, but I think it's 8020. It's a horror movie with funny stuff, you know? And that's what makes it work for me. Let's say it was 7030 or 6535. That wouldn't work. It wouldn't work. It wouldn't have had the impact it has, because I'm a weirdo. I enjoy twisted shit. I enjoy gore. I enjoy...

Like I said, like feeling disoriented, like someone's cut the rope and you don't know where you are and you have to float until you find your way back. I love that. And if this had more comedy, less horror, would just be basic. And I think what Toby Hooper did here was create something really special and unique and different than his original Texas chainsaw movie. And I'd say 80-20. What about you?

speaker-1 (01:50:00.898)
Yeah, same. no, I'm straight up 80-20. I agree with you guys wholeheartedly. I mean, I think that's the core of it right there.

speaker-0 (01:50:08.142)
I laugh a lot. You could say like 90, 10. I guess it depends how affected you are by gore. Some people could easily say 90, 10, but I laughed a lot. Even during the gory parts, I laugh a lot. When LG is getting the shit bashed out of him over the hammer and he spits that loogie, I laugh.

speaker-1 (01:50:14.114)
Right.

speaker-1 (01:50:25.166)
Right, or like her line, are you mad at me? You know what I mean? Right.

speaker-2 (01:50:29.41)
That's my favorite.

speaker-0 (01:50:30.466)
You just, after it's over, you just have to reevaluate how you see things.

speaker-1 (01:50:35.754)
Yeah, so did leather face he kind of went off the rails there yeah. All right. So elevator pitch if you were trying to get this movie greenlit or just trying to convince a friend to watch it What would your pitch be? What would you say is the hook that sums up this movie?

speaker-2 (01:50:40.631)
He did.

speaker-2 (01:50:56.782)
I would say, did you love the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre? Because you're probably going to hate this one at least a little bit because it's very, very, very different. Yeah, you're, you're, taking one of the scariest movies of all time and you're turning it on its head and you're making a comedy out of it with a chainsaw wielding Dennis Hopper running around like a madman.

speaker-1 (01:51:16.814)
Yeah, if I'm pitching this movie, I'm just pitching stretch. That's what we're doing. Ah, nice. Yeah, I mean, I just think it's just, she's such an underrated final girl. Her performance is phenomenal. She's just got this real fear and real grit about her, real presence. And she just, she's made for the camera. She walked straight into one of her's weirdest sequels and she's the one who kind of makes it work. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally.

speaker-2 (01:51:43.351)
and chopped up.

speaker-0 (01:51:46.348)
I guess my pitch of it would be if you fucking loved Texas Chainsaw Massacre and you have a dark, twisted sense of humor, I just don't see how you couldn't love this movie.

speaker-2 (01:51:59.814)
Yeah, I mean the people that don't are people who... and I don't blame anyone for not liking it. If you're a fan of the original and not liking it because, well, Bart has a much more aggressive opinion about it, but I would say I get it because you want that same feeling you had the first time and this does not give you that feeling.

speaker-1 (01:52:04.824)
Of

speaker-0 (01:52:05.41)
I do.

speaker-1 (01:52:17.516)
It's eating a bite of ice cream only to find out it's sour cream.

speaker-2 (01:52:21.006)
Exactly. You can't blame Tobey Hooper especially for wanting to do something totally different because, you know, he knows he's not going to be able to recreate what he already did. So may as well go in a totally different direction, which I appreciate the audacity of it. That's what works for me in the comedy is like just the audacity of trying to do this kind of gives it an extra five percent funny to me. Just, you know, even if the jokes know, so they don't work in certain moments, I just appreciate the swing.

that it took to try to pull it off.

speaker-0 (01:52:51.382)
And had he made a Texas Chainsaw 2 and it was just a continuation of Texas Chainsaw with no humor, what would we have gained with that in our lives?

speaker-1 (01:52:56.152)
Where do you take that story?

speaker-1 (01:53:01.376)
One more, one more recommendation. So this would be maybe interesting. Would you recommend this movie to everyone or only to a certain kind of fan? What is the right audience for Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2?

speaker-2 (01:53:16.972)
I would not recommend this to most people I know. I would recommend it as like a... I think it's a fun like party movie. Turn it on at a party and have like...

speaker-1 (01:53:26.35)
I was gonna say, you have your party, Joey.

speaker-2 (01:53:29.034)
Exactly, exactly. Throwing it on at a party is fun because like every scene has like something weird going on to where like you'll get distracted and like, what is this bizarre thing? You know, it's a good conversation starter and then you can kind of walk away and not engage with it. But I can, it makes total sense for just turning it on at a Halloween party or something. Let people just come through, make fun of it or celebrate it however they want in the moment. But unless you're already a horror fan, then this is like required viewing.

But if you're not, this isn't gonna convince you that this is the world you wanna explore.

speaker-1 (01:54:02.926)
If you're a fan of cult horror films, I don't think that you can say that you truly are if you've never seen this movie.

speaker-2 (01:54:11.532)
That's the thing is like recommending it to people you've probably if you're the type of person that would watch this you've probably already seen it

speaker-1 (01:54:17.868)
You've already seen it. There are people who are like, what movie are you all watching this week? And I tell them and I'm like, it's great. There's all this blood that it's got. love it. And it's fun, you know, all this stuff. And they're just like, yeah, have fun. You enjoy that viewing by yourself, you know? Yeah, it's definitely can't be for everyone.

speaker-0 (01:54:34.808)
For me to answer the question, would I recommend this movie to normies? Never. It's too gross and the humor's too weird and the combination turns them off even worse.

speaker-1 (01:54:44.59)
I've been zittin' for normies.

speaker-0 (01:54:47.862)
Nubbins is not for normies. But for anybody who not only likes twisted humor and gore, but also appreciates movies that aren't perfect, know, like those audiences that do like trauma films. And this is by no means a trauma film. I'm not a huge trauma fan because I find them, not to use the word again, tedious sometimes, because I don't wanna sit through 90 % garbage for 10 % jewels. I want the ratio to be different.

If you can embrace the good and accept the bad, you can watch this movie. That Brothers and Sisters is Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 2, 1986, Toby Hooper.

speaker-2 (01:55:22.19)
Well said. Well said.

speaker-1 (01:55:31.191)
Love it.

speaker-2 (01:55:31.662)
Incredible. Such a joy. Such a joy to watch. And such a joy to be your first returning guest on your podcast. This has been so much fun.

speaker-0 (01:55:37.998)
your quadrilateral.

speaker-1 (01:55:39.048)
Yeah, so when we go for a third time, what's it gonna be? You gotta really think about it now.

speaker-2 (01:55:44.722)
We gotta go really weird on the next one. I want to find something though that like will really upset Lindsay That's what I really want to find but if she's into TCM 2 though It's gonna be hard to find something that she's gonna just be really weirded out by I have some thoughts though, so

speaker-1 (01:56:03.176)
I would love to hear it sometime. So absolutely. Do your best, Joey Carr.

speaker-0 (01:56:10.2)
Well, yeah, thank you for being our first returning guest and always an absolute pleasure to talk to you on time.

speaker-1 (01:56:16.632)
Joey, this was amazing. Thank you for being with us yet again for one of the finest horror comedies.

speaker-2 (01:56:23.202)
both such lovely people, great friends, thank you for having me, and see you all at the Indie Memphis Film Festival November 5th through 8th in downtown Memphis. Thank you.

speaker-1 (01:56:31.854)
We'll be there

speaker-0 (01:56:33.518)
Thanks, George.

He's best. Yeah. We should have a rotating chair and just have Joey back every three months.

speaker-1 (01:56:42.07)
I'm convinced that you're doing this just to test him and you're going to kick me out and one day it'll be the die laughing podcast with Bart Shannon and Joey Carr.

speaker-0 (01:56:50.456)
Paranoia isn't a sign of dementia, is it? Yeah.

speaker-1 (01:56:52.91)
It might be. You know what the thing is? I wouldn't even be mad. That's how much I love Joey Carr. I'd be like, I get it. I do. I really do get it.

speaker-0 (01:56:59.98)
How about this? How about in the future, we don't let our hiatus go this long? Yeah. Because I miss getting to talk to you.

speaker-1 (01:57:05.634)
I know, me too, I don't like it. Man, when we don't do it, I miss it. So definitely can't wait to do it again next week. 15 episodes in Bart, how you feeling?

speaker-0 (01:57:12.408)
That was it.

speaker-0 (01:57:16.044)
I feel good. They look good. I think I had said internally last year, like, we'll do 20 episodes and see how it goes. We'll just see how it goes.

speaker-1 (01:57:24.206)
going well. I think it's going well. 20 episodes in, you're going to replace me with Joey, and again, I'm okay with that.

speaker-0 (01:57:30.478)
I was thinking more we do the 20th episode and then I drive my car off a bridge in honor of these two losers and Mercedes from Texas chainsaw master part two

speaker-1 (01:57:41.422)
And then I'll go to another bridge and mourn the loss of Bartram.

speaker-0 (01:57:45.419)
call back. Let's end it there. I love you, Linda.

speaker-1 (01:57:48.846)
Love you too Bart, talk to you soon. Bye.

speaker-0 (01:57:55.566)
All music for this podcast is provided by MKE. To hear more of his music, visit his band's website at detectivemusic.com and Detective on Spotify.