Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

The Tiger Sisters share the keys to collaborative communication.
Good marketing communication doesn’t just go one way. As the Tiger Sisters know, building a brand is about bringing your audience into the conversation.
Cherie and Jean Luo are sisters, tech and finance experts, and co-hosts of the Tiger Sisters Podcast, a show about money, power, and love. Their approach to content creation mirrors how they think about communication: know your audience, stay curious, and embrace feedback. “We often think about our community as the co-producers of our episodes,” Cherie says. “Each episode we put out is like a mini product. Once we put it out, we can get feedback on whether or not people are resonating.”
In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the Tiger Sisters join host Matt Abrahams, sharing how they’ve built a thriving brand through collaboration — with each other and with their audience. From simplifying complex topics to crafting messages that resonate, the Luo’s insights show why the best communication is about healthy back and forth.

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (03:07) - The Tiger Sisters Mission
  • (04:43) - Going Viral on TikTok
  • (06:33) - Explaining Complex Topics
  • (08:29) - Learning from the Audience
  • (10:38) - Working as Sisters & Co-Founders
  • (13:38) - Reinventing Careers
  • (15:04) - Family Expectations
  • (16:53) - Personal Branding
  • (19:30) - Teaching Through Storytelling
  • (21:35) - The Final Three Questions
  • (26:56) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Cherie Luo
Co-founder & Co-host of Tiger Sisters | 450K followers with 100M+ views | Ex-Product @ LinkedIn
Guest
Jean Luo
Co-founder & Co-host of Tiger Sisters | Former Tech & Finance Executive | HBS Graduate

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Passion and collaboration
can turbocharge your communication.

My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today, I'm excited to visit with the
Tiger Sisters, Cherie and Jean Luo.

They are the dynamic co-hosts of the
Tiger Sisters podcast, a show I encourage

all of you to put in your playlists.

They together demystify the tech
and finance industries and go

beyond with their insights that
are both fun and educational.

They blend the strategic
rigor of the boardroom with

the candor of sisterly love.

Well, welcome, Jean and Cherie.

It's great to have you here.

I'm a big fan of your show
and the connections we have.

It's great to be here in person
chatting with you at Spotify in LA.

Thanks for being here.

Cherie Luo: We're so excited.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

You both are incredibly
curious and motivated.

What drives what you do?

Jean, you want to start?

Jean Luo: So for Tiger Sisters, our
mission is to help one billion people

in the world with what we do, and that's
something that we didn't really say

out loud and start telling people until
recently because we were quite sort of

bashful about how audacious that is.

But now we just say it full on.

And the context behind that is that
prior to starting Tiger Sisters with

Cherie about a year and a half ago, I
had never been on camera in my life.

I had never done anything like this,
never been in the media industry.

I actually had had a 15-year-long
corporate career before all this,

so this is all totally new to me.

And the reason that, you know, I left that
all behind is because while I was in my

corporate career, I was sort of behind
the scenes and watching Cherie and seeing

all that she was doing as a creator,
which she had been for about 5 years.

And I was sort of seeing all the DMs and
the messages that she was getting from

people where they would write into her and
say, "Hey, I just wanted to let you know,

you changed my life with your content.

I never knew what product management was.

I never knew I could ever
work at a tech company.

But I watched all your content.

I applied, and I got the job.

I'm moving across the country."
And so after, like, a few years of

that, I was like, "You know what?

This is something that has both incredible
scale and reach and really touches

and changes the lives of individual
people." So from that, I was like, "This

is worth me dedicating my life to."

Matt Abrahams: I really like that
you guys are very purpose-driven.

Cherie Luo: Oh, yeah.

Matt Abrahams: And you're right.

I mean, what we do can have impact
on people, and that's fantastic.

So Cherie, you and I go way back.

We've, we've had a connection.

But I'm curious to have you
share sort of your motivation.

Maybe you can share how we
actually know each other as well.

Cherie Luo: Yes.

So Matt and I know each other from
Stanford Graduate School of Business.

I was a student there, and I graduated
in 2024, so not too long ago.

Jean and I, it's amazing that we get to
work together every single day for this

mission, but we both feel so much drive
and purpose and passion for empowering

and helping and uplifting people.

I started creating content in
2020 during the pandemic, and

mostly on TikTok, short form.

And the thing that really clicked for me
was when I created this video that rated

my undergraduate computer science classes,
one through ten, I rated them, and I'm

like, "How helpful were my classes to
what I am doing now working in the tech

industry?" And I took that idea and a
TikTok trend with a Hannah Montana sound,

so it was like current and relevant.

And I combined those two together,
and that video went viral.

So it had way more likes,
comments, views than my silly

dance videos or my cat videos.

And people were asking follow-up questions
in the comments like, "Oh, wow, this class

is so interesting," like, "How long did
it take you to do your major?" And at the

time there weren't a lot of people sharing
their experiences in an educational

and like also entertaining way.

And so starting from there, I've had a
content creator career, mostly part-time

until recently full-time after graduating.

But throughout GSB, I was also
posting like, what is it like to be a

business school student at Stanford?

What are the classes that I'm taking?

What am I learning?

What's the behind the scenes?

And so now after graduating in 2024,
Jean and I have come together and turned

it into Tiger Sisters, which is both
our full-time jobs and passion for the

impact we want to create in this world.

Matt Abrahams: Well, I'm hoping that the
ratings of the GSB classes were good.

I really like how part of what you
all do is in a very creative way,

you make more detailed, tough at
times, content accessible to people.

You're very good in the way in
which you communicate complex

ideas and make things relevant.

How much of that is strategic?

Do you guys sit down and talk about,
how are we going to address this

issue or communicate this topic,
or is it just natural and happens?

Cherie Luo: Oh, no.

I mean, I think the behind the scenes
of Tiger Sisters people don't see,

'cause it does come out very polished,
but there's so much research that

goes behind every single episode.

And for Jean and me, I think a lot of
our ethos is meeting our listeners, our

viewers, our audience where they are.

And while some of the content we
have is more complex or academic,

one of our more famous episodes or
well-received episodes, we talked about

private equity and venture capital.

Very fun and sexy.

But we called it like Private Equity
for Hot People, and that was a bit,

but it also reached people, we're like,
"Okay, there's something interesting

there. We can talk about it, break
it down, and make it more palatable,

exciting, entertaining, and interesting."

Jean Luo: Yeah, and we're always thinking
about what our audience wants, right?

What the community, we call the
Tiger Fam, what they want and why

they want to listen to this topic.

So for a topic like venture capital
or private equity, yes, like some

people are interested in it just
for the academic pursuit, but really

what people want is to be able to
participate in any conversation.

Like if you go to a networking
event or you go to a fancy dinner

and people are talking about this
company just raised a seed round or

like this vertical industrials is
really heating up for private equity.

People want to know what to say to that.

They want to understand it.

They want to be able to participate
and ask well-informed questions.

So that's why when we made an
episode about VC and PE, that

was the angle that we went at it.

We're like, how to talk
about money in any room.

Matt Abrahams: Which,
which is all of us, right?

So really knowing that audience,
doing that reconnaissance reflection

and research is important.

How do you get insight
from your audiences?

Are you doing surveys?

Are you talking to people?

Are you watching who responds to what?

Cherie Luo: Yeah.

We often think about our community,
our viewers, listeners, as the

co-producers of our episodes.

And Jean and I think about Tiger
Sisters building it like building a

tech startup, which I think is pretty
unique in this space, but makes

ton of sense with our backgrounds.

Matt Abrahams: The rapid prototyping,
the, the frameworks and all of that.

Yeah.

Cherie Luo: Because each episode
that we put out is like a

mini product in and of itself.

Once we put it out, we can get feedback
on whether or not people are resonating

with the topic, what do they want to
hear next, what are their follow-up

questions, and a lot of that comes in both
quantitative and qualitative feedback.

The qualitative is digging into every
single comment that people leave,

and we read all of the comments.

Jean Luo: We say that in every
episode too, so people know that.

Matt Abrahams: Right.

And that encourages more.

Jean Luo: Exactly.

People are very passionate, and people
really make a lot of suggestions

about what they want us to cover.

So we've seen comments before where
we release an episode and then

people say, "Oh my God, this is
the topic I asked for a month ago.

I can't believe you guys finally did
it." And they'll be like, "Please talk

about this topic next." So it's really
this like virtuous cycle because our

audience, the Tiger family, see that we're
listening, and they really do feel like

a part of the production and the growth
and the development of Tiger Sisters.

Matt Abrahams: That sense of
community is so important.

We do very similar here
on Think Fast, Talk Smart.

We definitely like getting the feedback
and the ideas, and we build that in.

It's part of it.

And that sense of community I think
is something that's very special.

I really like this idea of seeing
your work as a tech startup.

One of my colleagues, I don't know
if you ever took a class with Michele

Gelfand, but she likes to say, "Mind
your metaphors." The metaphors we

use affect how we do our work, and
seeing it as a startup m- means you

bring a certain ethos and approach
and a way of interacting not just with

each other, but with your audience.

So I really like that idea.

And all of us can be thinking
about what are those metaphors we

bring to the interactions we have?

Is this gonna be a battle?

Is this gonna be a dance?

Is this gonna be a startup?

I think that's really interesting.

I'm curious about the two of you.

I mean, obviously you're sisters, but
you're also colleagues and co-founders.

I can imagine occasionally there
might be some differences of opinion.

How do you resolve conflicts
or different points of view?

For those listening in, are
there some conflict management

techniques that we can learn from?

Cherie Luo: Not included
in your list is roommates.

Matt Abrahams: Oh.

Wow.

So you guys are a 7 by 24 Tiger
Sisters and Tiger roommates.

Wow.

Okay.

This just got really interesting.

Jean Luo: I mean, people ask, they're
like, "How did you grow so quickly?"

It's because we're always working on it.

I think we're really lucky in that we did
a lot of sort of pre-work, whether we knew

it or not, in aligning our mission and
how we looked at building Tiger Sisters.

Like the metaphors we use,
we looked at it as a startup.

We said, "We are gonna bootstrap
this." We said, "We are going to,

no matter what, spend 18 months on
this and just see where it goes.

When we start this podcast,
we are not gonna take any

sponsors for the first year.

All we're gonna do is work on the content
and make sure we prove to ourselves that

we have product market fit." So I think
because we did all that pre-work, we were

really well aligned on, like, so many
aspects of how we were gonna build this.

And I think just personality wise, we
both are pretty hard workers when we

are really excited about something.

And so I don't think we've
had too much conflict.

Cherie Luo: The thing is, with Jean
and me, we both have very low ego when

it comes to creating Tiger Sisters
or when you're working with someone

or in a partnership with someone.

I think it's having low ego.

So we do a lot of testing for thumbnails
and titles and content, and sometimes

Jean will have a crazy idea and I'm like,
"I don't know if that's a good idea or

a bad idea. Let's test it." You know?

Like, let the numbers speak for itself.

Let's test this title, and if
it works, that's great for the

betterment of Tiger Sisters.

And I also just have a lot of respect
for obviously my older sister and

going into conversations thinking
like, "What if she's right?" You know?

Instead of being like, "No,
I'm definitely right," or like,

"She's wrong and I have the better
idea." It's, it's not really that.

It's like we both want Tiger Sisters to
be so successful and we wanna help people,

and we have the same mission and vision.

I'm like, "What if she's right?"

Matt Abrahams: I really like that
approach to potential conflict is

what if the other person's right?

Most of us, I think our natural
reaction is I'm right, they're wrong.

But I like that, what if she's right?

And I love that you
also go to the numbers.

Let's test it out.

Before we have a battle
or a fight, let's try it.

And in the space you're in and
with the technology we have, you

can test things pretty quickly.

The notion of being very clear on your
goals and alignment also I think is

something that is, have been helpful.

I heard you say that was
really important upfront.

Lots that you're doing that
many of us can take away.

Get alignment.

Think about what if the other
person's right, and figure out ways

to test the areas where there's
contention or potential conflict.

That's really helpful.

I'm curious to hear, you both made pivots
from a completely different career.

How was that, and how
did you communicate that?

I can imagine family members, friends,
others saying, "Well, you had a

pretty good run doing what you were
doing, and you're gonna go do what?"

What was that thought process, and
how did you communicate that in a

way that was able to help get the
support that I assume you've had?

Jean Luo: Yeah.

I mean, in many ways terrifying
to kind of, not throw away, but

put aside the entire 15 years,
you know, of working in corporate.

And, you know, after a long time
you become quite successful, and

you are an expert in one area.

So to move to an entirely new area that I
have no evidence that I'll be at all any

good at it, that was really terrifying.

But I think the sort of tenet that
I've lived my life by and that I use

to help communicate this change is
just the idea of reinvention, right?

That is a theme that we talk about all
the time on Tiger Sisters, that you can

reinvent yourself at any age, and you
can do it in a million different ways.

So the other tenet that I live
my life by is that don't ever,

like, count yourself out.

Don't, because so many people, they're
gonna wanna, like, count you out.

Don't do it to yourself
before you get into it.

And especially if you're a woman,
play to your strengths, and, like,

don't worry about the fact that
you may not be perfect on paper.

There's going to be something about you
that makes you special for the role.

Matt Abrahams: I think this idea
of reinvention, which comes across

loud and clear in the show you
do, and it's very empowering.

But every time you reinvent, you're
leveraging what you've learned in

the past, so you're applying all the
skills you learned into your new role.

In communicating that to your
colleagues, your parents, et cetera,

was it hard for you and for them?

I mean, that's a hard message to say,
"I'm leaving a successful career."

Did you strategically think about
the message that you had to deliver?

Cherie Luo: I think for Jean and me, it
may be our mother's worst nightmare that

we're not working in corporate anymore.

So we come from, you know,
we are Tiger Sisters.

We have a tiger mom to say the least.

And she's an immigrant.

And we grew up thinking that our
lives should look a certain way.

We should get the resume attributes and
go to those schools and have those jobs.

And so I think it's absolutely so scary
to share that we are not doing that,

or we've done that and now trust us.

We are taking a major pivot,
but we believe in ourselves so

much, so we also need that belief
and support from you as well.

I still think it's kind of a battle.

Like, maybe battle's kind of a dramatic
word, but I do mean that, in that we're

proving to ourselves, we're proving
to the world, and also proving to the

people who care about us and want the
best for us but don't necessarily know

what this whole media stuff is, you know?

Matt Abrahams: Yeah.

One of the things that I wanna pick
up on that you said that I think is

really valuable when communicating
change to others from whom we want

support is that you had an ask.

You didn't just say, "We're doing
this," or, "I'm doing this." You said,

"And we need your support." And that
connection I think is really important

in sharing that I'm making this change.

I'm reinventing myself, but I'm gonna need
that help and support along the way, and

that can pull people forward with you.

You guys are doing a great job of
branding yourself and your show.

In this creator economy, whatever
that means, that brand is important.

Can you talk to us a little bit about
the conscious efforts you're following

or acting on to define your brand?

Because I believe as we move forward
in this creator-led world, all of

us in some way, shape, or form are
gonna have to have a personal brand.

Maybe it's a show like you have, or maybe
it's just when I go to apply for a job,

I have this brand that others can go
check out to see that my brand is in line

with whatever the corporate brand is.

Thoughts on branding?

You're doing a great job at it.

Cherie Luo: Something that I've
been thinking about for branding

for Tiger Sisters and how I've
approached branding for the last few

years is what makes you stand out
in your category or your vertical?

Be good at what you do, provide value,
and what are ways that you are different.

So one of the reasons why I reached
out and we're doing this podcast is

that our podcasts were next to each
other on the top business charts.

And, you know, Jean and I look at those
charts, and sometimes when we're up there

in the top 10, we're like, "Wait a second.

We're talking about business.

We're talking about career,
finance, money, power.

And we are the only people in this
category that look and sound like us

and have the experiences that we have."

And so I think my takeaway for the
last few years is just, like, how can

you brand yourself as someone who is
very credible, be good at what you

do, provide value, and how are you
just a little bit different, providing

nuance and a different perspective?

This started when I was in my computer
science classes as an undergrad.

I wasn't the best CS student at all,
but something that's different about

me, I was good enough in my classes.

I was part of Women in Computer Science.

But I was very talkative, very outgoing.

That helped me stand out among my peers
who were in the club with me, and I was

nominated president because I could be
the corporate-facing person to talk to

these companies, to bring the companies
to campus and, you know, have those intern

and job opportunities for my classmates.

But I think in that way, like, I also was
trying to figure out, how do I stand out?

Matt Abrahams: What I hear in different
answers that you gave is knowing

yourself and where your strengths are.

And then from a branding perspective,
understanding the context you're in and

figuring out how you can bring a little
bit of nuance or difference there so that

you leverage the strengths that you have.

And you've done a good job of that.

And it takes a lot of research and
reflection and trial and error, as

you've mentioned, to really find that.

But once you do, it can
really be helpful for you.

It gives you focus, and it
also invites in those audiences

for the creative stuff you do.

One of the things I really
appreciate about what you do is you

take a lot of complex information
and make it really accessible.

And I'd like to get very tactical.

What are some of the techniques
you think through about how to

communicate it so people understand it?

I know you think about your audience, but
are you thinking, "A good story would work

here," or, "Let's use an analogy there"?

Talk to me about that process because
it's very helpful to learn material

through you all and the way you do it.

Jean Luo: Yeah.

I think the funny thing is that,
again, it helps that we have a similar

background in that we both went to
business school because we really draw

on that sort of method of learning,
of learning through case studies.

So whether or not we intended to go about
it this way, we basically approach every

single episode as kind of like a lesson.

And hopefully that's not how people
perceive it because it's also

meant to be extremely entertaining.

But we try to pull the best of what
we learned from business school,

and we always include a case study.

We include some of the background that
people need to learn in order to be

able to process and build that critical
thinking around the topic themselves.

And then we layer in what I think is
our secret sauce, which is we talk a lot

about our own personal experiences, right?

So we talk about our mistakes and
our failures and the way that we

had to learn things the hard way
across certain topics in our careers.

And then I think one level deeper,
what makes us even more unique, is

that we don't just take these sort of
frameworks and principles and apply

it to business and money and career,
but we also apply it to our personal

lives and our personal relationships,
our friendships, our love lives.

And we also have mini exercises.

Matt Abrahams: And what's so interesting
to me is, I mean, the things that you

do and you've just described are things
that people like me use when we teach.

And I love that you learn
them from the other side.

As students, you learn these techniques,
but adult learning theory is all

about the things that you're doing.

I love that you use a
case to make it real.

You bring your own personal experiences.

You give people an activity
to do to really reflect.

That's how people learn and grow.

Before we end every episode,
I always ask three questions.

One I'm gonna create just for you.

Actually, instead of a question, I want
it to be a little bit of an experience,

and then I'll ask you the two questions.

So when I teach, one of the
icebreakers I use is a very

quick game called This or That.

So what I'd like to do is I'd like
to pose to each of you a choice,

and I'd like you to just state
your choice, no more information.

And then after we do a few of
these, I might ask a question.

So it'll be interesting to see if you
have similar or different choices.

So for example, if I were to say to you,
Cherie, summer or winter, you would say?

Cherie Luo: Winter.

Matt Abrahams: Summer or winter?

Jean Luo: Summer.

Matt Abrahams: Okay.

See?

Interesting.

Already we've got a difference.

Backpack or suitcase?

Cherie Luo: Backpack.

Jean Luo: Suitcase.

Matt Abrahams: Money or time?

Cherie Luo: Time.

Jean Luo: Money.

Matt Abrahams: Player or coach?

Cherie Luo: Player.

Jean Luo: Now player.

Matt Abrahams: Okay.

Interesting.

See?

So some similarities and differences.

Talk to me about backpack or suitcase.

Cherie Luo: I like to have things on me.

I'm ready.

I'm on the go.

Suitcase, you gotta,
there's more maneuvering

Matt Abrahams: And for you?

Jean Luo: I personally have a
suitcase that I really, really love.

Matt Abrahams: Okay.

Cherie Luo: And that's, that's,

Matt Abrahams: That's the way you do.

Okay.

So question number two.

Jean, I'll ask this of you and I'll
come to you with question number three.

Who's a communicator you admire, and why?

Jean Luo: Okay.

I would say Reese Witherspoon.

'Cause I think she's done something very
special with building Hello Sunshine in

being able to tell stories that are meant
for an audience that is historically

really underserved based on what she
wants to hear and what she wants to know.

Matt Abrahams: So
connection and storytelling.

And Reese is, uh, Stanford affiliated,
so that's important to note.

So, cherie, what are the first
three ingredients that go into a

successful communication recipe?

Cherie Luo: I would say the first
thing is knowing your audience.

And maybe that's something I learned from
you and Allison Kluger from your classes.

But knowing your audience.

And I'll, I'll bring this
example into the digital world.

Whereas, like, if I am posting on
LinkedIn versus posting on Instagram,

the message I share and the way that
I share it, the medium, and also the

copy that I use, it's very different.

The audience on LinkedIn coming from
the corporate world, they're expecting

to see more professional content.

And that way, maybe I can make my content
a little bit more personal, surprise

them a little bit, be more vulnerable.

It's not what they expect in that way.

It's a little bit surprising,
and they can engage with that.

On Instagram, like, my
audience is a bit younger.

Maybe I should come off
a bit more professional.

That's not what they're
seeing on social media.

So knowing your audience and maybe
knowing what they expect and maybe

tweaking that a little bit so you
can surprise and delight them.

I would say the second thing is
when you're talking to people and

meeting them, I think about how do
you be the most curious person and

asking a lot of questions to them.

In that way, like, we've all met
people who are like, "Oh, my God.

They're so charming. They're so
magnetic." Like, how do they do it?

And I think it's being really
curious about the other person.

And I think everyone has an
interesting story to offer.

And really digging in and asking
good questions and making people

feel like they're the star.

Matt Abrahams: So it's about knowing
your audience, it's about being

curious, and it's about bringing
out the stories in other people.

Fantastic ingredients and something that's
demonstrated on your show all the time.

It's been lovely to chat
with you, to reconnect.

I am fully a member of the Tiger
family, and really appreciate the

collaboration and the learnings.

Thank you.

Cherie Luo: Thank you, Matt.

Jean Luo: Thank you.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
joining us for another episode of

Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

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