008 - We (maybe) Pivot

Jonathan and Caleb interview Brendan Shaw, local real estate agent, about investing in a new product idea.

Show Notes

Jonathan and Caleb sit down with Brendan Shaw to chat about OpenHouse.social and instead think about a pivot into a different product entirely.

[00:39] Welcome Brendan
[01:51] How does an 18 year old become a real estate agent?
[07:51] On not trading hours for dollars
[09:15] Give us your feedback Brendan Shaw
[19:19] What part of Brendan's business could be automated
[30:00] Does Brendan just want to become a tech entrepreneur?
[36:57] How to get ahold of Brendan

Find Brendan Shaw:
Web: bsre.ca
Email: [e-mail]
Twitter: @brendanshawbc
Instagram: @brendanshaw

The Product: OpenHouse.social

Newsletter: factory.twostoryrobot.com

Twitter: @twostoryrobot

Instagram: @therobotfactorypod

The Product: OpenHouse.social

Newsletter: factory.twostoryrobot.com

Twitter: @twostoryrobot

Instagram: @therobotfactorypod

Follow Jonathan: @thejonotron

Follow Caleb: @calebissharp

Creators & Guests

Host

Caleb Sharp

Full-stack developer at Two Story Robot

Host

Jonathan Bowers (he/him)

Founder of Two Story Robot. Developer turned entrepreneur.

What is The Robot Factory?

Follow along as we attempt to build and sell a SaaS company. A build in public behind the scenes journey of a small software agency, Two Story Robot, trying something new.

Jonathan: Welcome back to The Robot
Factory podcast, a podcast where we record

ourselves, building some software in hopes
of trying to sell it with me as always.

Is Caleb Sharp here live
in smoky Salmon Arm.

It's not smoky.

Well, it's a little smoky.

Yeah.

It's not smoky.

What would you call it?

Hazy.

It's cloudy because I just
looked at the purple air sensors.

It's like 20.

Well, it can be smoky,
but the air quality.

It's not smoking.

I wouldn't say it's sunny.

Okay.

It's not sunny.

It's very overcast.

Um, we have a guest today,
another guest, uh, Brendan Shaw.

would you introduce yourself please?

Brendan: yeah, my name's Brendan Shaw.

I'm a real estate agent
here out of Kamloops BC.

I've been licensed since 2006.

Um, actually I was, uh, had
my license taken away in 2006

because I wasn't old enough.

So officially licensed to since 2007.

Jonathan: how old are you?

Brendan: I was actually when I
was first licensed, I was 18.

And, uh, yeah, you actually have to be 19
to sell real estate and witness contracts,

Jonathan: Okay.

Brendan: yeah.

Yeah.

Jonathan: You are younger,
not, not younger than you look.

I won't say that because I don't
think that's true, but you're younger

than you seem like I thought I

thought we might be
closer to the same age.

You seem like a accomplished individual
that I don't often associate with youth.

That's awesome.

Brendan: I appreciate it.

So yeah, I would have Kamloops BC, uh,
we have our own, uh, real estate office.

We're an independent, um, so yeah,
we're uh, based downtown Kamloops.

We have about 18 agents and other four
or five support staff and, uh, yeah, we

specialize in residential and commercial
real estate here in the BC interior.

Jonathan: nice.

Um, so as an 18 year old real estate
agent, like what, what got you into that?

Brendan: I don't know in high
school, honestly, I thought I

was going to get into medicine.

My group of friends there, you know, all
doctors are, One of them went to Harvard

and other went to Dartmouth and whatnot
and kind of went that like science.

And that was probably like
my passion in high school.

And then, uh, subsequently actually,
uh, one of my uncles gave me a one

of those rich dad, poor dad books.

And it kinda like changed my
thinking, wanted me to get into

like investing and stuff like that.

And, yeah, just a real estate
kind of intrigued me a little bit.

And, uh, yeah, just decided to move
to Kamloops because real estate was

cheap and went to, TRU tried that out.

a little bit and in the process,
just, Thought I'd get into real

estate, get licensed through UBC and
yeah, it went through one from there.

Jonathan: I I've not read rich dad.

Poor dad.

Was that the book you
read or was it something

Brendan: Yeah.

Yeah.

It was, well, I read part of it.

I think the first chapter or
two chapters is like pretty much

all you need to read, honestly.

Cause I think the rest of the book is
just kind of like going through it,

but, I think when you're like 16 or 17,
you just don't really fully understand.

Right.

yeah, it was just nice to, read
something a little bit different.

Jonathan: What was the, like if
you were to synthesize the whole

book, what do you want to read?

The first couple of chapters
synthesize that down for like

a couple of little nuggets.

Like what's one of the big
takeaways you got from that book.

Brendan: Well, I think the
biggest thing was just about like

investing and stuff like that.

Like, uh, you don't need to necessarily.

You know, work for a dollar or work an
hourly wage, as long as you like work

for an hourly wage and then invest that
into something that produces more money.

Right.

And I think that's the
ultimate, like jest of it.

And, yeah, I think that, uh, kind
of like switched my focus to From

like science and, you know, getting,
getting into, you know, healthcare

or something like that, yeah.

Switching to something that,
uh, you know, it was more real

estate focus that provided some.

Some sort of income in perpetuity.

So that was a pretty intriguing for me.

Jonathan: That's awesome.

That's super cool.

Uh, I love hearing that I was going
to be a doctor, but decided to become

a real estate agent instead sweet.

Um, do you, uh, just out of
curiosity, do you have, do you

got the chops to be a doctor?

Brendan: I don't think so.

Jonathan: Oh, uh, I don't, I don't know.

I wouldn't sell yourself that short.

I think you seem like a pretty clever guy.

I don't know, maybe that maybe
the patience to sit through

the, sit through the education.

Uh it's too much.

I dunno.

Brendan: Yeah.

I, I would agree with that.

Jonathan: Um, so Brendan Shaw
it's Brendan Shaw real estate.

Uh it's BSRE what does that stand for?

Real Estate.

Brendan: Yeah.

That's right.

Jonathan: how did you start?

And then how did, how did that
end up becoming what it is now?

18, 18, some odd agents
plus support stuff.

how did you get there

in relatively short time?

Brendan: I don't even know.

So I actually was originally licensed with
Royal LePage, so, um, yeah, they're one

of the first people I went and met with
and I really liked the ownership group.

That was, that was a part of it.

Being a realtor is, is, you know, it's
focused on you as an individual, right?

It's, it's different than any
other job that I've had previously.

And, um, you, you really have to be like
self motivated to, to get out there.

And so, um, started out
working at Royal LePage, as a

residential real estate agent.

So, uh, I was selling, you know,
homes, condos, townhouses to

predominantly first-time home buyers.

And I received.

Yeah, like I said, you know,
a lot of support from the

ownership group that was there.

So there were a couple of agents that have
been in the business for 20-30 years that,

um, you know, fed me some leads and really
helped me kind of get started in this

new community that I barely knew anybody.

from there, um, you know, I really
wanted to kind of like evolve from there,

ended up, uh, applying for and getting
my broker's license, um, managed to.

Uh, Royal LePage here in
town for a couple of years.

And then in 2012, just decided
to open our own, company.

.
Jonathan: Sweet.

And you said new community.

Are you, are you not from Kamloops?

Brendan: no, I'm originally from like,

Jonathan: Uh, okay.

What brought you?

What brought you to the.

Brendan: uh, TRU originally.

So, um, I knew, like I said, I kind of
grade 11 grade 12 after reading that book,

I knew I wanted to get into real estate.

And, uh, just looking at like UBC SFU,
you know, some other places where some

of my friends were going to, um, you
know, for $200,000, you could get a

studio apartment in those locations
or in Kamloops at the time you could

get a six bedroom house in Sahali.

So it.

It was actually, I somehow convinced
my parents to, uh, you know, invest,

get a house here in Kamloops.

And, um, yeah, I ended up renting
out rooms, dens, you know, rec

rooms, two buddies of mine when
we were going to university.

And, so it, it, it was a pretty cool
experience while I was at university, but

yeah, uh, having six or seven roommates,
uh, probably wouldn't wanna do that again.

Jonathan: So you're a
rich dad, poor dad thing.

It like right.

The whole, the whole way.

You're just, yeah, that's cool.

I don't know how much, how involved you
are with attracting people to Kamloops.

I know we talk about it a lot through
the innovation center, but like what kept

you, what, what kept you in Kamloops?

Why did you not leave?

Brendan: That's actually a good question.

Um, I think having that, that real
estate here, I mean, I was tied here.

Right.

I, I couldn't leave in a lot of ways.

Um, you know, just from a management
perspective perspective, but also,

um, there was opportunity that I saw
and, you know, getting my real estate

license as soon as I possibly could.

kind of allowed me to create that
career and, and grow from it.

Right.

And, um, Yeah.

I mean, we're finally at a point
where, um, yeah, it's a little bit

less of a grind and uh, yeah, I
mean, now we have a family and we

have roots and stuff like that.

It's um, Kamloops is, is truly home.

Right.

Jonathan: I always assumed it.

From Kamloops, like he just seemed like,
a significant part of the community that

it felt like it was rooted, not just, um,
something that you had grown organically,

so that's even cooler to hear.

you know, rich dad, poor dad,
you're talking about investing.

You want to have, maybe not
trading hours for dollars.

one of the things that we're
trying to do as an agency is get

away from that, that race as well.

Um, most of our work in the past has
been all of our work in the past.

Trading consulting hours for dollars.

you know, there's been a few things have
happened over the past, particularly

in the past couple of years that have
made that a little bit scary, you

know, COVID happened and we thought,
oh no, what's going to happen.

Um, it ended up being fine.

And then now we're like staring down the
barrel of who knows this weird recession,

depression who knows what's coming.

Um, so trying to find a
diversified income stream.

And we're looking at building, you
know, building some products where

we're not trading hours for dollars.

So we've started this thing we've showed.

We showed it to you last, uh, last
time we talked, we've talked once

before, um, we alluded to you in an
episodes that we haven't released

yet, but we didn't name you yet.

So, uh, um, but there's this, uh,
real estate agent that we been

talking to is you, Brendan Shaw.

we showed you this tool that we made
OpenHouse.social, which has started

off as just like a really simple thing.

Like.

The obvious thing that we could
identify as something that we could do.

but what we're trying to do is
understand more from real estate agents,

other problems, like we, I know that
this solution that we're building,

isn't the thing that we're going
to end up with down the line, we've

already got some other ideas around
how we can morph what we've built.

Um, but I want to, I just kind of want
to get your feedback of what we've

built so far and ideally your honest,
brutal feedback, not the, not the

flowery stuff that makes us feel good.

Uh, but like, you know, I don't know.

Give us, give us your thoughts around
what we've built with OpenHouse.social

Brendan: So the thing about real
estate is there's so many different

like aspects to this, right?

I mean, there's sales, there's
property management, there's

strata management, there's finance,
there's inspection management.

I mean, the list kind
of like goes on and on.

Right.

And so there are with that, you
know, there's so many, problems that

need to be overcome, um, with sales.

I know, especially with a lot of our,
you know, newer agents that may not have.

So much as a tech background, you
know, some of the issues that I've

seen when they're first starting
out is okay, how do I create a

professional product for my listings?

Right.

Um, professional website, professional
photos and stuff like that.

You know, a lot of that sort of stuff
can be contracted out, I think relatively

easily, but a lot of the social media.

Especially when you're just starting
out, you know, you don't have

a budget to hire a social media
manager or anything like that.

Right.

And so, um, you know, when you brought
kind of open social there, you know,

I th I do think that fills a need
within, our industry, especially for

those starting out, you know, for.

Um, kind of solution to create
some professional marketing that

they can use on Instagram, Twitter,
Facebook, and stuff like that.

Right.

Because, um, there are agents out
there that want that specific brand.

They want their name recognized
and stuff like that, which I think

all of them should, especially
when they're first starting out.

And I think, um, you know, what
you've built there is, is great for

that kind of like clientele, right.

Um, for.

For me, it's a little bit different
because a lot of the listings that I

have right now are co-listed with other
agents, you know, they're spending a lot

of the time on those sort of aspects.

Whereas my time it's more
spent on like the kind of like

back management, type areas.

Right.

So, Newer agents.

I, I, I definitely think should
be like your target demographic

for, for something like this.

Cause I think, yeah, it's, uh,
it's something that, um, I think

would be, would be needed for sure.

Jonathan: I'm going to get a
maybe put you on the spot and say

like, why, why not for you then?

Do you want to buy it?

Brendan: uh, it's honestly, I'm in
a little bit of a transition phase

as far as like my, uh, like social
media goes and stuff like that.

Right.

I mean, I, I'm almost at the point where
I think, um, I need to hire or contract

out that, uh, social media piece so that,
you know, have a social media manager to

manage the, kind of like all of our stuff.

Right.

Because, um, I kind of feel
like that's kind of the latest

procedure that I'm a part of.

That's probably on the chopping block
where I can spend less time doing that and

more time, you know, spending elsewhere,
uh, A little bit more beneficial.

Right.

Um, I mean, the thing that I like about
social media is like, with Facebook means

scheduling like posts and stuff like that.

You know, if you have an hour
of free time or whatnot once a

week, I mean, you can schedule
everything for a month or whatnot.

Right.

Um, anytime we have new listings
that come up, you know, Uh, workflow

where, you know, our admin posts it to
social media and stuff like that too.

So it's, you know, for me having that
manpower kind of behind the scenes

and whatnot really helps me out.

But for somebody that's just starting
out where you're an independent business,

you're an independent agent, you know,
you're, you're, you know, You know, for

all intents and purposes, paycheck to
paycheck, it's, you know, those are the

sorts of processes that you need to be
doing yourself and not spending money on.

Right.

And so if there's some sort of
affordable solution to automate that

and make it look professional, like
open social, I think that'd be the

most beneficial for somebody like.

Jonathan: one of the things
that, I'm exploring is.

adding some service components
to what we've built.

So right now we've kind of approached
it as, as this is something that the

real estate agent would use themselves.

They would like, you know, upload
pictures, craft the craft, the, um,

the wording and the description, and it
generates, or we can add some tools to

make that a little bit easier, but it's
really the agent doing all the work.

Would you, would you consider something?

Um, that's a little bit more bundled
in with a service, like, so you've

just, you've just described potentially
offloading the, your own social

media, um, tasks to, to someone else.

If we, if we had that, um,
would that be interesting?

Brendan: Yeah.

Uh, I think so.

Yeah.

Someone that could yeah.

Put it together and, you know,
I don't know if it's, uh, yeah.

And then just load it for, to
Facebook or Twitter or Instagram

for me or something like that.

I mean, that would be, yeah.

I mean, that would be ideal.

Jonathan: Interesting.

Well, I'll have to, I'll have to explore
that a little bit and think about it.

I, I, I'm not trying to.

Commit you to do some things
here on the air at all.

Like that's not the goal here.

I'm not trying to trap you.

I'm just kind of exploring
some of these ideas.

Um, okay.

Uh, what about the rest of the
agents in your, uh, in your office?

you know, as I walked down the
street, you know, there's a, there's

a bench, just out front of, the
office that has, uh, what's his name?

Doyle.

Brendan: Yeah, Joe Doyle.

Jonathan: Yeah, Joe Doyle he's
he's he's got a bench, and

it's got your branding on it.

It's BSRE branding.

Um, is there, is there some economies
of scale where some of the other agents

could, could come on board and have,
have some of these, like this branded

imagery, branded social media posts
that are branded BSRE is that something

that would like as a, as a whole
organization, that would be interesting.

Brendan: Uh, I think so, like I
remember being a part of Royal

LePage and Royal LePage had kind of
this backend software where yeah.

They had a bunch of, like
word documents, right.

With Royal LePage branding or,
um, flyer, postcards with Royal

LePage branding that you just.

In a word document, upload
your photo, put in the address

and price and stuff like that.

Right.

And so there are tools like that,
that I know other brokerages

use and stuff like that.

I mean, here's, here's the one issue
that I think you're going to have to

overcome is real estate is inherently,
uh, uh, you know, self-employed

business for realtors, right?

And so even though there is a brand,
there is a company kind of behind them.

Ultimately it falls on that individual
realtor shoulders, whether or not

they're going to make it or not.

And so with that, we actually just
experienced this in our office.

We're trying to implement some
software for everyone to use.

And, um, some sort of like common, tools
just for communication and whatnot.

And the issue is you have
somebody that uses like outlook.

You have somebody that uses Gmail.

You have somebody that uses and everyone
are, you know, they're, they're kind

of set in their are ways a little bit.

And so trying to like group everyone
together, I mean, that's, that's

the biggest, um, hurdle I think
you're going to have to overcome.

Right.

So, um,

Jonathan: Yeah.

So from the outsider's perspective,
it looks like it in a naive, I

think in a naive way, it looks like
everyone that's listed on your website

works for your organization, but
that's, that's not actually the case.

They're all sort of independent.

Yeah.

Brendan: All independent and yeah,
I mean, it's the same with every,

every brokerage that's out there.

I mean there were, there were a
couple of brokerages in Kamloops

that tried to go like the team
route and, you know, they would pay

people's salary and stuff like that.

And, um, yeah, I mean, th that, that's
great for the brokerage in times, like

the last two years, when, you know,
we've hit record sales and stuff like

that, but, um, you know, paying multiple
people's salaries when we're heading

into, you know, by all accounts, uh,
a bit of a recession here, right?

Um, you know, I remember, I think
it was January, 2008, there were

17 sales and all of Kamloops.

And, you know, if you have 300
agents, you know, that's a lot of

people going without a paycheck.

Right.

Jonathan: How, how does it work?

So if they're all independent, You
know, I'll use the, back of the

bus seat example, like it's branded
under BSRE that's Brendan Shaw.

they're still under your, branding and
logo and colors, and I think maybe even

email address, What benefit does the
independent get from working with you

and what benefits do you get from it?

Brendan: Yeah, so it's
more compliance based.

So, um, ultimately I'm responsible.

I'm responsible for, you know, the
success or failure essentially of,

our company and the individual agents.

Right.

So, um, you know, if there's an
agent that goes out there that, uh,

Uh, you know, does something that's,
um, you know, unethical or whatnot.

ultimately it would fall on my shoulders.

So, with that, you know, our
office, you know, we review all

listing files, all sales files.

Um, you know, if there's a question
about, um, you know, wording of a

contract or whatnot, um, you know,
we're the ones that put our agents

in touch with, the professionals out
there to, you know, Complex issues.

yeah, I mean, we have obviously an
override in authority, the BC FSA

that, um, you know, they're the
regulators essentially of our industry.

They're the ones that are, you know,
watching over us, theoretically.

I'm the one that watches over, the agents
just to make sure everything's above.

Jonathan: got it.

feel free if you just want to say
you don't want to answer this,

but do they pay you, do the agents
pay you in some, like, how do you

you're doing this work like that?

You're not doing that for free.

Brendan: yeah.

There are compensation structures and
every office operates differently.

So some of them are like splits,
um, other offices, um, you

know, they might be, um, desk

Jonathan: a split,

Brendan: uh,

Split on commission.

Yeah.

Others charge desk fees where, um,
every month you're, you're paying X

number of dollars to the brokerage
essentially to operate out there,

have your desk and stuff like that.

Um, there's also online brokerages
too, that charge, you know, tech

fees to be a part of it and whatnot.

Um, where, you know, if you wanted
your own office, you'd have to

pay that separately essentially.

Right.

So, I mean, there's, there's pros and cons
honestly, with every business model there,

ultimately it's just, you know, you, as an
agent, you have to decide, you know, what

fits best with what, where you want to be.

Jonathan: Do you, do you have to
be part of a brokerage by law?

Is that like a requirement
as a real estate agent.

Brendan: You do here in BC.

Yeah.

So you have to be a yeah.

A real estate agent as
part of a brokerage.

there has been talk, you know,
here in BC and other provinces

about moving more to yeah.

Independent based.

framework.

But, currently, if you're a
licensed real estate agent, You

have to be a part of a brokerage.

Jonathan: One of the things that
you mentioned way back and something

that we had discussed on email that
we want to talk about is, I asked

if there was any, anything about
the way you run your business.

Any part of it really, that
is ripe for automation.

So something that just sucks, like
something you do that is monotonous,

um, repetitive, whatever, uh, and
something that we can automate.

I've always been surprised at how much.

Um, this is, this, isn't a judgment,
but I think it's, it's a case of like,

I've got 20 years of experience in
tech and some of that, some of that

I take for granted and forget that
people don't have 20 years in tech.

And so, um, occasionally I'm surprised
when people don't realize that you can

automate some things and regularly run
it, run across instances of people,

doing things very manually when there
is a potential simple solution that.

Don't aren't aware of.

And so I was curious, like, what
kinds of, what kinds of things in

your business, or that you're aware
of that real estate agents have or

suffer from that could be automated?

One thing you brought up
was, uh, property management.

Um, and it was curious to just kind
of explore some of that a little bit.

What are, what are some things that
just S I don't want to say stuck, but

like, wish you wish you just didn't
have to do social media aside, or

maybe it, maybe it is social media.

I don't know.

Brendan: Yeah.

Uh, yeah, property management, I think
is our biggest, problem right now, as

far as, uh, you know, trying to find
something that's a little bit more

streamlined The issue that I think
we're seeing is, there isn't really

one type of software to handle the
aspects of property management that.

we're a little bit different than a lot
of other property management companies.

There's a ton of property
management companies here in town

that are independently owned.

they manage their own
portfolio and whatnot.

And so with that, there, there there's
no requirement for them to be licensed.

Right.

Whereas with us, our requirement is,
uh, you know, if we manage property

for other people, which, which.

you know, we have to create separate
trust accounts, um, you know, separate

processes, paperwork, um, there's a
lot of regulation that, that comes

with that too at the same time.

So, you know, recently we've been working
with, with our accountant who, And works

with a number of other kind of property
management related companies as well too.

And, um, you know, we've just been
trying to find that, application

to kind of streamline everything
just a little bit better.

So, you know, if there's some sort of
property management software out there,

um, that could work for, you know, the
small mom and pop type shops to the

largest, you know, real estate holders,
I think there could be a lot of, I know

there's a lot of other people that are
out there kind of in our situation.

So, um, some of the larger, like proper
management software companies that are

out there right now, I mean, there's, a
threshold to being able to utilize it.

They might have, you know, startup
costs of, you know, tens of thousands

of dollars essentially to get into it.

Plus monthly fees.

And the issue that we saw with
that, just being a licensed company

is that you can only have like one
licensee essentially for one company.

you know, if we manage, you know, 20
different properties for 20 different

individuals, we have 20 different trust
accounts that, uh, we need to have set up.

That would be 20 different licenses that
we would need to operate, uh, out of.

I mean, we're talking about
hundreds of thousands of dollars

in licensing costs in order to.

kind of move forward
with something like that.

Right.

And so, um, there becomes a cost
benefit there that just isn't,

Jonathan: right.

Brendan: you know, it's
just not applicable.

Jonathan: can we just back up
just a, just a bit, like when

you, this is going to sound silly.

Cause I feel like I'm asking it late.

When you say property matters.

What does that mean?

I mean,

Brendan: So the simplest, uh,
answer to that is, uh, property

management is someone will come to us.

They say, Hey, I have a house.

Uh, can you manage it for us?

Can you rent it out, find a tenant, do
drive-bys do inspections and just make

sure that, you know, there's income coming
in, being able to pay my mortgage for me.

we see that a lot with
out-of-town purchases.

Um, but even professionals here in town,
too, there's a number of people that

invested, bought real estate, um, where,
you know, they want to spend more time

with their family or more time their,
their time's better spent at work where,

um, you know, we're the ones that, that
kind of stick, handle things for them.

You know, if there's a plumbing leak
or something like that, we'll send,

um, you know, call a, a contractor to
go and take a look at it and stick,

handle all that, those sort of aspects.

yeah, without, I mean, it
could be a single family house.

It could be an apartment, it
could be an apartment building.

It could be a commercial,
uh, building an office tower.

we even yesterday had a request
to manage some farmland, uh, for,

for people and stuff like this.

So it's kind of all over the map that way.

Jonathan: what is like, what are
those tasks that you know, what

are you looking for in a, in a,
I guess, a piece of software or a

thing that helps you manage that?

Like, what's the, what's the, what's
the, I dunno, a couple of things that

you gotta do or that your staff have to
do that it's just a royal pain in the

butt that you would like software to fix.

Brendan: Yeah, for sure.

So there's, uh, aspects like rent
collection and rent collection.

It's different for everybody, you
know, you can't just have one standard.

Okay.

We accept e-transfer or we accept, um,
uh, you know, direct deposit you have

to tailor to, to the tenants, right?

I mean, there's some tenants that
don't even have a bank account, right.

uh, you know, they pay, uh, you
know, monthly and cash, their.

Um, other, uh, other tenants that they'll
only pay by, e-transfer no other way.

And so it's, um, you need something
that's, you know, fully encompasses,

I think every, um, aspect of rent
collection, that way, something that, you

know, ideally on notice notifies you as
a manager, uh, as a landlord that, uh,

you know, Hey, rent's due, uh, it has
been received or it hasn't been received.

Um, you know, these are who you
need to follow up with essentially.

Um, some sort of bookkeeping
tool as well, too.

Um, it's actually funny.

We used a couple of different pieces of
software right now for our sales side

and for our property management side.

And each one of them uses
different accounting software.

So we might use Sage for one QuickBooks
for another FreshBooks for another.

And so

Jonathan: Oh, my goodness.

Brendan: it's, it is honestly,
archaic in a lot of ways,

something that's, I think just.

Easy for rent collection, uh,
bookkeeping, uh, you know,

maintenance requests, reminders,
you know, something where, okay.

You know, if it's the fifth of the
month rent was due on the first, you

know, why hasn't rent been received?

Can we follow up with those people, you
know, some sort of tool where, you know,

saves, um, you know, lease agreements
where it's easily accessible, where it's

not, you know, on a, you know, in Google
drive and, you know, three or four folders

or something like that, where, uh, you
need, you know, we need to search for.

I mean, like I said, something that's
cost effective where, um, you know, a

small mom and pop type shop that just
wants to streamline things, you know,

they don't need to spend $10,000 and, you
know, a thousand dollars a month in order

to receive their $1,500, rent payment.

Right.

and I think above all else,
something that's like easy to use.

Um, I was actually recently just
talking to, this owner of a.

Interprovincial a management company,
they manage thousands of units, throughout

Canada and, uh, talking to them about
kind of the software that, that they use.

Um, and one of his comments was,
after they just recently upgraded to

two, some new software was that he
kind of feels like they need to hire,

you know, three or four new people.

Kind of manage that software and
continually like update it with, um, you

know, changing tenants or, or maintenance
requests and stuff like that, my kind

of thoughts are, ideally you want
some sort of technology, some sort of

software that, that makes things easier.

It doesn't complicate things where
you need to hire more people on

a monthly basis to, to use it.

Right.

Jonathan: yeah.

That's wild.

I mean, one of my, like I've.

Casually saying this to people for a
decade or two is like, I just think life

is too short to use terrible software.

Like, I don't know, like why,
why do we have to suffer through

somebody's terrible design decisions?

Brendan: I've used a ton of CRM
type software and stuff like that.

And some of that, like taking so
long to load, it's like, I can just

throw this into an Excel spreadsheet
and literally, you know, control

F you know, find whatever I'm
looking for and literally a second.

And it's, you know, why am I waiting,
you know, five seconds here, 10 seconds

there in order for something to load.

Right.

It just doesn't.

Jonathan: I mean, it's funny you bring
up Excel, like what, what are, what are

some of the things that you're using
Excel for right now that you think

is like that that's a great example.

Like something that's super
slow and maybe, maybe if you've

done this where you've said.

Screw this I'm not going to do it.

I'm just going to put it in Excel
so I can control F look for stuff.

Um, what are some things that you're
using Excel for that you feel is,

uh, silly to be doing an Excel?

Brendan: Uh, well right now, I mean,
it's just this, uh, you know, it's

rent collection and stuff like that.

Like we have our like
accounting softwares.

We have our backend, uh, uh,
you know, real estate software

and stuff like that too.

But, uh, I mean, I always, rather
than writing down on a piece of paper,

you know, kind of have a backup in
Excel where I'm just cross-referencing

numbers and stuff like that.

Things match up.

Right.

And so, um, you know, occasionally
if we're going for a refinance on,

on a building or, a property or
something like that, a lot of the

times, you know, banks will need like
per personal net worth statements or,

income statements and stuff like that.

It's a lot easier just to, you know,
save a PDF off of Excel then to,

You know, create an export some, uh,
statement that way in a lot of ways.

Jonathan: why do you
think no software exists

it does exist.

It's just, they're not good.

Why, why is that?

Brendan: I think for us it's because
we're, we just haven't found the right.

Piece of software yet.

I mean, something that works for a small
or like a large independent wouldn't

necessarily work for us because, you
know, we have part of our business is,

um, you know, our own management, but
part of it's a management for third

parties as well, too at the same time.

Right.

And so, um, there's government regulation
I think is, is one of the biggest

hurdles, uh, to get around our reporting
requirements and, um, I think without

there's, uh, you know, companies out
there that, or at least I maybe I

haven't found it, that, don't currently
support just with their structure.

Jonathan: How many organizations
do you think are like you

in this, in this regard?

Uh, this property management,

Brendan: Well, I think every
property manager I talk to has yeah.

The same issues with it.

Right.

So, yeah, I mean, it doesn't
matter if it's, yeah.

I was a small mom and pop type shop
that needs to provide their accountant

at the end of the year with, with, you
know, their income and expense statement,

or like I said, you know, uh, larger,
property management company that, um,

you know, needs to hire additional,
support staff just to use that software.

Jonathan: this is maybe a random question.

Do you want to be a, you want
to be a tech entrepreneur?

Brendan: I would love to be like,
I would, I would totally invest

in something like this because I
do see a need for this for sure.

100%.

Jonathan: It's super interesting.

This isn't the direction.

I thought this was
going to go at all, but.

We could build this for sure.

Like, I'm almost certain of it.

Caleb's done some work with a, uh,
electric vehicle financing company,

and integrating with, uh, direct
deposit, like pulling, pulling

money out of people's bank accounts.

Yeah, it was out of the state.

So it works a little differently, but
the gist of it working with like banks

and how much of a nightmare that.

We've we've done that before and
we've got another client right now.

That's just getting started
up in the, in the states.

I don't really know how to describe it,
specifically for first time home buyers.

It's a really, really cool, like really
cool thing that they're building.

we've built the initial product for
like onboarding the application,

credit checks, all this kind of stuff.

We built all that.

So like we're, kind of experienced
in this, in this space.

And like, I honestly thought we
were going to talk about like,

how do we automate your email?

Um, but I'm, I'm really excited
about the idea of, of exploring this

property management thing, because
our approach to building software has

changed dramatically over the last year.

And.

Probably get something that you could use.

It wouldn't do everything, but we could
probably get something that you could

use that could collect rent, from some
people, within a matter of months, like

that's something that we could do,

Brendan: Yeah.

Like add on, yeah.

I mean maybe a document, uh, know tab
or something like that, where yeah.

Agreements are in, uh, you know,
if we could spit out or, you know,

connect with, um, you know, like
QuickBooks or something like that, and

just have everything like automated

Jonathan: Yeah.

I mean, like we've built, we built that,
like that, that piece we've also built,

like we've got this, uh, if we're a
completely different client where they

have these templates, when they need
to send it off to a client, we just

grab the template, fill in, fill in the
information that they need to fill in.

And it generates a word document that
they, that we send to the sales agent

because they do have to like review
it, but then they don't have to like,

do all that pasting around themselves.

They get this email with
the, with the document.

They can make whatever changes
they need to make or review it and

then send that off to the client.

Brendan: It's actually interesting that
you bring up that word document template

because in the last couple of years, like
historically when I first started like

back in 2006, 2007, um, a lot of people.

We're still using like carbon copy, print,
uh, uh, contracts and stuff like that.

Right.

And, um, I mean, even five years ago,
how it used to work was he, I mean, you

do everything by hand, essentially on
a, uh, printed pieces piece of paper.

You know, if you're doing a new
listing, you'd send it to the office.

The office would review it.

They'd send it to our board or board
would, you know, hand put in that data

input in order to get on like realtor.ca.

Whereas now, you know, five years
later, it's, it's all automated through

like authentic sign DocuSign, um, you
know, uh, uh, transaction online desk

software that essentially spits out
everything, um, to those, those signers.

And, you know, you just
load everything, just.

Digitally instead of, um, having
to go through, you know, that

six or seven different avenues in
order to, to get a property listed.

So,

Jonathan: one thing.

Cause, cause I live in a building that
has like a property management company

and, and every once in a while they sent
like the emails that are like, the gutters

are going to be cleaned at this time.

Or like they're cleaning out the parking
garage, but they're always these like

super janky, like hand typed out emails
with some like gifs or whatever in them

is, is that something that could be.

Brendan: Totally, I think
part of the software.

Um, yeah, I mean, sending out like
reminders or maintenance requests, um,

you know, just the other day I got a phone
call from, one of our tenants they were

like, Hey Brennan, you know, the grass
hasn't been cut in like three weeks,

you know, what's, uh, what's going on.

And, You know, it's hard for us to be
at every different property at, at once.

You know, we need people to let
us know if there's, you know, some

issue that hasn't been dealt with.

You know, if we have, you know, if
there's a contractor that, has, you

know, one of their staff members
has, skipped doing some, tasks like

that, we need to know about that.

yeah, having something.

Easily accessible where, you know,
we can send out an email, you know,

rather than having to hand deliver
every notice or something like that.

Um, where there's a red re receipt
where you, you know, we know people

have received it, um, I think would
certainly be beneficial that way.

Um, and even having some sort of
tool where, you know, that's easy for

people to, to communicate with us.

Jonathan: How would they
get ahold of you now?

Like if somebody doesn't show
up to cut the lawn in three

weeks, they just email you.

Brendan: It's just like right collection.

Everyone does something differently.

Some people text me.

Um, when we have a designated like
manager managing the building, uh, or it

might be a strata management issue and
they messaged me rather than, than the

strategy, uh, strata management company.

Um, it might be texts.

It might be email.

It might be phone call.

Um, it might be somebody
showing up to our office.

It's I mean, ultimately
we want to create it.

I think it's easy for the landlord
as easy as the tenant as possible.

Right.

So, you know, if someone messages me or
something like that, um, you know, if I

have the software open on my computer,
I can maybe just type in a quick

note, send it or something like that.

I mean, it's, but it's just, you
know, how do we lessen that workload?

I think that's, that's the
issue we need to overcome.

Jonathan: One of the things that always
annoys me is like, if I have like a,

like a minor question or something, I
got to like call the property management

office and like either try to remember
who the property management person is

and like their extension, or like wait,
and then ask to talk to the person.

And it just like, there's
a lot of overhead for just

asking like a small question.

Brendan: property management for in BC
is kind of being left by the wayside.

There's no kind of like,
communal software that, um, you

know, licensed agents are, are.

Essentially using.

Right.

So, um, that's where I think
the opportunity is for sure.

Jonathan: I want to build this, uh, I
mean, we've got enough things to do, but.

I want to, I want to build this.

And the reason, the reason why is
because you're excited about building it.

And because you said you also
want to be a tech entrepreneur.

so one of the things that, like one
of the things that we have realized

is, we can build whatever, but
we're not very good at selling it.

where we've been successful is.

When we can build products that other
people can can take, because they've got

the domain expertise, they've got the
networks, they've got the connections.

Uh, so I'm, I'm super, I'm super
interested in exploring that,

So we've kind of run out of time.

Thanks so much, Brendan, for
hanging out with us, this was a

super fun conversation that went.

In cool places.

If someone wants to get ahold of you, and
they're listening and they're like, ah,

I want to talk with Brendan Shaw about,
you know, having him manage my farm.

Brendan: Yeah.

Jonathan: How do they get ahold of you?

Brendan: Uh, through our website, BSRE.ca.

and my email is just [e-mail].

Uh, so yeah, they can,
uh, yeah, go explore it.

I think my cell number, you know, we've
got a contact form on the website, you

know, if they want to call, text me,

Jonathan: are you active
on social media at all?

Brendan: Yup.

I've got a Facebook, a Twitter handle is
@brendanshawbc, Instagram @brendanshaw.

I do have a TikTok account, but
my daughter calls it cringy,

so, uh, yeah, go check it out.

Yeah.

Uh, so yeah, th that's actually,
yeah, anyone wants to take on

managing my TikTok profile.

Uh,

Jonathan: Just let your

daughter do it.

Brendan: no, I should.

Jonathan: Yeah.

you've been listening
to The Robot Factory.

I've been Caleb Sharp.

I've been Jonathan Bowers.

Brendan: I've been Brendan Shaw.

Jonathan: Awesome.

Thanks a lot.

Talk to you soon.

Brendan: Thanks.