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An Equity-First Students as Partners Podcast.
Student Stories in Higher Education.
00:00:01 PIERS
You're listening to Voices from the Classroom, the podcast that bridges the gap between students and educators. I'm Piers.
00:00:06 POPPY
And I'm Poppy.
00:00:07 PIERS
And we're your hosts for today's episode. Thank you for being here.
Today we're joined by Grace, a Bachelor of Law/Bachelor of Science student who's passionate about sharing the realities of balancing work, study, social life, and personal commitments while navigating university life.
She's here to talk about the ongoing impacts of COVID on student connection, the struggles of finding clarity around future pathways, and why lecturer guidance and mentorship are more important than ever for students, and success.
[So we do have one final question. The question, if you will.
What do you wish your lecturers knew?] 00:00:36 PIERS
Welcome back to another episode of the Voices from the Classroom podcast. Our mission is to amplify the lived experiences of students, especially those from equity cohorts, who face unique challenges and offer valuable insights into university life.
We aim to spark conversations between students and educators to deepen the understanding of the diverse realities shaping student engagement, motivation and success.
Please note that while this is a student as partners project supported by the Equity First team, the views shared are our own and based on personal experiences and stories from fellow students, not on behalf of any institution or group.
00:01:06 PIERS
Today we are joined by the wonderful Grace.
Grace, can you start off by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you're studying?
00:01:13 GRACE
So myname's Grace. I'm studying a double degree of Science and Law at Deakin. I started back in 2020, so our lovely 2020 year. I came to campus for a grand total of two days in week one, and then we went into lockdown for a year and a half.
Since we've been back, I've been pretty involved in Deakin clubs with DUSA. I'm currently the president of the Snow Club, so that's been really fun. I've really enjoyed that. But yeah, that's a summary of my Deakin journey, I guess.
00:01:45 PIERS
You want to tell us a little bit about the club that you manage?
00:01:48 GRACE
So it's the Snow Club. It sounds very, like we just do trips to the snow. We don't...we’ve actually this year, I think had 11 social events between both Burwood and Geelong. So we tried to spread out a bit. Geelong is a bit of a new endeavour for us. We've been a Burwood-based club, but we're trying to grab more Geelong members because they're keen as well to go to the snow. We also do a day trip every year, so that's fun.
Yeah, you don't need to know how to ski or snowboard or have ever done it. You can just come try, you can suck, it doesn't matter. We all suck, to be honest. So we do have an Olympian in our ranks. Yeah, that's kind of crazy. She goes and then we're like, “oh, bye, we'll be down here. You go over there”.
00:02:33 POPPY
“See you when the bus is leaving at the end of the day”.
00:02:35 GRACE
Yes.
00:02:36 PIERS
What brought you to Deakin in the first place?
00:02:39 GRACE
My course, to be honest. It's a bit of a rogue. Obviously, science and law isn't that popular. A lot of unis don't actually offer it. It was actually a last-minute decision. I was really like based on like, I was like, I'm going to do science my whole high school. I love science. And then kind of last minute, I was like, oh, I really like little politics. Maybe I should do law?
00:02:59 PIERS
Spice it up a little.
00:03:00 GRACE
Literally. And then here I am, five years later.
00:03:04 POPPY
And how long do you have left in your degree? 00:03:06 GRACE
Just a couple months.
00:03:07POPPY
Oh, woohoo.
00:03:08 GRACE
Yes, very exciting.
00:03:10 POPPY
How does that feel?
00:03:10 GRACE
Relieving, but also...yeah. Because what's next is obviously such a big question that so many people, including myself, have.
00:03:21 POPPY
Yeah.
00:03:21 GRACE
And it's so, especially with two very broad degrees, there's a lot of, there's a lot of opportunity, which is a really good thing, but it's also very broad and unclear.
00:03:33 POPPY
Yeah, unknown.
00:03:35 GRACE
Yeah, unknown and competitive in some aspects as well. So it's a lot to think about, a lot of work still to do to get a job.
00:03:42 POPPY
Yeah.
So my first real question that I have for you as a student that started in 2020, how has COVID impacted your studies, your social life and your ability to connect on campus?
00:03:58 GRACE
So it definitely massively affected all three of those things. I think at first, I was really focused on the social aspect beca use when I came to Dea kin, I very much had this image of like, when you go to uni, you go and you meet all these like-minded people and you try all these new things. Like my parents were very, in uni, they were very involved in their social clubs, in all of that, and they had made all these friends.
And then I got here and I was like, oh, I don't know anyone. And obviously then we went into lockdown two days later, and I still don't know anyone, like two years later, because we were in lockdown. I do say, I do think Deakin did a very good job of online learning, but obviously on online learning, you don't talk to anyone and that is just how it goes.
I thought that it would, the social aspect, it would come back as soon as COVID kind of was over and we were out of lockdown, but I unfortunately don't think it happened as naturally as all of us would have liked. And so I think we definitely had to work hard to make connections and to meet people because we were all so comfortable with online learning and we hadn't met anyone.
"So coming to class was, for a lot of people, very intimidating. It was new, it was different. A lot of people had like changed their living arrangements, so getting to campus wasn't possible anymore. And so as much as I would have loved to say that like, “oh, it like all went away and all of our like social issues were fixed”, unfortunately, I think that's very hopeful to think it would have just gone away.
So there was a lot of work I think that everyone had to do and are still doing now. I'm still meeting people who I speak to who they don't know anyone. And it's sad because obviously everyone wants to come and make whole friends and be very social.
And I also think it very much surprised me is how much it affected my like uni learning. I thought it was like, oh, just the social, I'm like, “oh, well. It's okay, I didn't get to go to a party, it'll be alright”.
But how much that affected my learning and other people's learning, I found very shocking because I think if you don't have the talk, if you're not talking to each other in class, you don't know anyone, you're not going to attend class, you're not going to want to go. If you don't attend class, then you're probably not going to want to do the work. You also have less motivation, I think, to like go home and study to then go to uni and speak to no one with less balance as well. So it definitely affected a lot of different aspects.
00:06:34 POPPY
Yeah, I think the university experience as a whole is so different compared to before COVID.
Like I started university in 2023 and I remember being so nervous like my first day and thinking, “oh, it's all right. It's like your first day at school. Like every day after that will get easier”.
And I definitely don't go to lectures as much because I find it so intimidating walking into a room every week of people I don't know. Yes, I see familiar faces, but do we talk to each other? No. Like sometimes there's people I'll talk to, but it's like walking into a new classroom every single week. And that makes me less...like when my alarm goes off at 7am, that makes me really not want to get out of bed. Like, whereas if I had friends that were there and I knew I was going to spend time with them, it would make it a lot easier.
What do you wish your lecturers knew about the challenges around COVID and connecting on campus?
00:07:26 GRACE
I think it goes back to kind of what I said before, that having connections and having friends and being able to socialise does really help your learning. And that there are conversations that aren't, I think that lectures kind of assume that definitely used to happen pre-COVID, that kind of just aren't happening anymore.
I feel like students used to come, and it's definitely coming back now, five years later, like students just like talking about the unit content, talking about “I've got this internship. Oh, I know this guy”. Like, and like, “oh, that's really interesting to know”.
Just like totally random things about the unit, about the work. I think those conversations aren't happening anymore. And there's a lot of learning that I think we do off of each other that just like, unfortunately, just like isn't happening.
It's no one's, really, fault. It's just how it ended up. So I wish they knew that those weren't happening and maybe would facilitate those kind of things a little bit more, as well as understand the kind of pressures that are put on because of the lack of socializing or because of other issues that have happened because of COVID, like living situations.
And there's a lot more that everyone, I feel like it's going through now in a weird way. There's just a lot more to think about.
00:08:50 POPPY
I think the cost of living too, like, I know that's such a word that everyone uses and annoys me so much when I hear, oh, cost of living, but like, it has changed all of our lives.
I'm a massive believer in why, that's also why the university experience is, because you don't get to hang around, you've got to go to work after uni, or, you know, you're running from work to uni, you don't have time to do, you know, grab a coffee beforehand, or you have to miss that lecture because you're going to work.
How do you personally manage your time between studies, work, family, social life, and running the snow club, being part of the...how do you personally manage all of that?
00:09:29 GRACE
Honestly, I don't. Like, to be totally frank and honest, I am on the, it's like a treadmill, like you said. You go to class and you run to work and you run to do this thing, you run to do the next. I don't think there is a balance, and I wish I said that I could, like in five years, I figured it out. I don't think I did, to be honest. And I think a lot of people are in the same boat.
There was one time in particular, it was a period where I was working two jobs, so I was working over 40 hours a week just to support myself. I was doing a full load at uni.
I was also doing...Dusk, which is the snow club, which is basically a part-time job in itself. I was running that and I was doing a WIL unit, so a legal internship at the same time. And I was like, “I don't have enough hours in my day to get everything done that I need to do. And unfortunately, that means I guess I don't get to watch this lecture. I guess, oh, that assignment can be 5% late”.
00:10:28 POPPY
Like, I won't do the readings this week. Yeah, yep. It's so tricky.
What do you think educators, lecturers, unit chairs could do to better support students juggling all of those responsibilities? Because I would say most students are.
00:10:45 GRACE
Absolutely. I think part of it would just be an understanding, because a lot of our unit chairs, a lot of our lecturers are from a different generation.
They had one for university, which would be amazing. We could bring that back. That would be good.
00:10:58 POPPY
Yeah, anyone listening, that is the main, that's the main idea.
And they had no Zoom as well.
00:11:03 GRACE
Yeah, no Zoom. You had to come in. And it meant that I also think employers were a lot more understanding of like, “oh, you got to go to uni”. Now they're like, “oh, well, can you just watch it online later?”
And I think if lecturers, unit chairs kind of understood the different pressures that we're facing, and the fact that all of us have to go to work and a lot of us are working full-time.
And I don't want, like the amount of work or the course to change or anything like that.
But I just think the way sometimes that they talk can be a little bit like they expect you to put your whole life into this unit. It's like, “well, for a lot of us, that's not actually physically possible if we want to eat lunch”. Like it just doesn't work like that.
And so I think some of the, I don't know, just some like understanding of where we are at is different from where they were at the same time. But also, I think there could be, and this is more of a university thing than I should think, maybe a tad more leniency in terms of extensions and things like that. I feel like you have to be on your deathbed to get an extension at this point. I've got one extension in my five years, and it was when I was in emergency surgery.
00:12:14 POPPY
We were having this discussion before, actually, of how non-accessible it is and how beyond hard it is to get an extension.
And often when you're applying for an extension, sometimes you actually just need other support as well as an extension, and that's the hardest bit. And it's also really hard for unit chairs and lecturers, I totally agree, of how they can actually help the students. But yeah, it's a bit of an impossible situation for everyone, I think.
00:12:38 GRACE
No, I totally agree, because it's like, what's the solution? Because if I understand the idea of, like, if you start giving leniency to one person, then everyone has to get it, like, where's the line? And unfortunately, I don't have the answer.
00:12:50 POPPY
What's the hardest part about figuring out what's next after being at university for five years? You know, that's a huge, that's a huge question. What's that like?
00:13:04 GRACE
Honestly, it's really difficult because I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me. We don't know anyone in our field. We have no, like, connections or networking, because obviously that kind of fell by the wayside and it's still kind of building back up now. And I think the job market, particularly for entry level jobs in this economy, is really, really difficult as well. And it's really hard to know what to look for when you don't, like you don't even know what you're looking for.
Like sometimes, and I was thinking about this probably like a year ago when I was, thinking about, “these are like my final units. I should really set this out”. I was like, “I don't even know what I'm supposed to be looking for. Like, I don't, like, what do I Google? Like, what do I put in the seek bar? Like, what job titles? I don't know”. I really had no idea. And I think that is very much not just a me issue. It is such, like, almost every uni student or even high school student has that thought of like, “oh my God, now what?”
00:14:09 POPPY
Yeah, it's so intimidating. How do you think Deakin and lecturers could provide clearer guidance on that?
00:14:18 GRACE
Absolutely. So I think talking about it at, like I know it would be very scary and intimidating, but I think bringing it up from the beginning, like first year units, second year units,
electives, I think having just a little bit dedicated to like, “have you thought about this career path or about this thing? Or like maybe you should apply for these kind of internships”.
It's hard to know like what's available out there if you don't know anyone. I'm very much like in that boat. I feel like I missed quite a lot of boats just because I didn't know they were there waiting for me. And I know that a lot of like, I can only talk from like a law science perspective and from what people I know have told me. But I know definitely from the legal perspective that there's quite a strict process with becoming a lawyer, and I didn't know anything about it. And I definitely think there used to be, like the faculty used to give lectures and presentations on it, COVID, that all kind of fell apart. So I was actually speaking to a friend of my graduate at the same time, we were like, “oh my gosh, like we didn't know any of this, like we had no idea”. And so I think bringing it up as early as possible. And I think it could go on like every lecture.
Like I know I had one really good, I can't remember his name, but he was a, it was an elective I did in my science. And a lot of people in that unit were people wanting to do, it was a science unit, but it was also a crossover with biomed. He was talking about all of these like biomedical like things you could do. And I was like, “oh, like this would be really helpful if every lecturer talked about it”.
And I know that the law, not the law faculty, but the student society, the Deakin Law Student Society, I think is what they're called, they put on like presentations about this information, but they're students and they can only know so much, which isn't their fault because they are, they're just students like us. And it also means that, as I looked into some of the different unis' information, because I was like, “oh, if we're putting it out, I wonder what they're putting it out”. It's different information, which I'm like, I don't know.
Like it's no one's fault. Like they're all trying their best. They're students as well. I think having some information and guidance from the faculty and from the beginning in almost every unit, because you're not coming to uni to not get a job. Like you're coming to uni to get a job. I think making it job-relevant is really helpful.
And I think particularly for, I've did two very broad degrees, there is so much and you don't know where to look. You're just like looking at a big universe and you're like, “oh my God”.
And you try things and they're like, not you. And you're like, “oh, okay, let me try over there”. I don't know.
The WIL unit, I will say, was really good, but I do think it was limited because obviously there's only a certain amount of things you can do. And that lawyer can only tell you about
what they did. So I also think maybe having like ex-students or professionals come into classes and actually talk about, like what they did. Because I know that's something that I asked every single lecturer that I've had is like, “what did you do and how did you get here?” And I'd have got a lot of the same answers because obviously they are all now lawyer academics or science academics. But just like asking that question was like really helpful.
So I think if they provided that information and started that discussion, I think that would be really, really beneficial because...it makes people think about it, because I definitely wasn't thinking about it in my first and second year, and I now I'm like, “I really should have been”.
00:17:59 PIERS
So we do have one final question, the question, if you will. What do you wish your lecturers knew?
00:18:06 GRACE
I wish, and I guess it kind of ties everything together.
I wish...that my lecturers knew that we weren't talking to each other. That we're not really talking to each other about the class. We're not talking to each other about the field. We're not talking to each other about our futures. And that makes one class really scary. It makes our learning and education more difficult. But it also makes our future other more uncertain when you're talking to other people and they don't know either, or...at least there's like solidarity when you don't know together. Whereas I think when you're not talking to each other and none of you know, you're like, “oh my God, I'm the only one that like, everyone else has it all figured out”. They don't, no one has it figured out.
But like, it definitely, I would love them to know that we are not having those conversations. And I would love for them to start them.
00:18:56 POPPY
Just more connection, I think is, yeah, in the main thing.
00:18:59 GRACE
Absolutely.
00:19:00 PIERS
It just seems really frustrating. You've almost, like, slipped through a crack or something and now you don't know where you've gone.
00:19:05 GRACE
Yeah, and I'm sure like it's not just me being like, I'm only feeling like this. I'm sure everyone feels like this because there are definitely like resources out there, but I also think like maybe they need to be like shoved in our faces, a bit more aggressive, be like, “here, look at this”. Like I only learned about Deakin Talent like a year ago. And I'm like, “I've been here for so long. How did I only learn about this a year ago?” How did I only learn about, what else did I only learn about? Oh, there was a, it's like a, it's called the Victorian Law Institute. And they have all these resources for undergrads and postgraduates. And I was like, “how did I only learn about this like two months ago?”
So totally in terms of connection, but also just like shove the resources in our face.
00:19:45 POPPY
Yeah, I'd rather have way too many resources where there is none.
Thank you so much, Grace, for sharing your perspective. Your story highlights the need for lecturers to better understand the pressures students face, the lasting effects of COVID on social and academic life, and the importance of clearer guidance to help students feel supported when navigating future pathways.
This conversation has been really helpful. We've really enjoyed having you here. Thank you so much for your time, we appreciate it, and can't wait to see what you do.
00:20:15 GRACE
You too.
00:20:18 POPPY
Thank you for joining us for another episode of Voices from the Classroom.\Ne hope Grace's story provided some valuable insights that could potentially be considered as part of your education provision.
If you found today's discussion engaging, or if you're a lecturer, we encourage you to reflect on what you've heard today. Could you check how accessible your unit site is? Or think about the pace of your teaching for students balancing study?
Don't forget to subscribe so you won't miss our next episode. We also welcome any suggestions or topics you'd like us to delve into or experiences to be shared. Please share them with us through the link in the podcast notes.
Until next time, keep listening, keep learning and keep connecting. These aren't just our stories, they're calls for empathy, understanding and change.