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"AI needs leading and the adoption of it needs leading."
— Pia Lee
"Being curious and exploring is not the same as saying, I'm curious, and then making your opinion very much felt."
— Dan Hammond
"We've got to let the technology actually connect us in a really conscious way."
— Pia Lee
Exploring how humans connect and get stuff done together, with Dan Hammond and Pia Lee from Squadify.
We need groups of humans to help navigate the world of opportunities and challenges, but we don't always work together effectively. This podcast tackles questions such as "What makes a rockstar team?" "How can we work from anywhere?" "What part does connection play in today's world?"
You'll also hear the thoughts and views of those who are running and leading teams across the world.
00:00:04 Dan:
Hi everyone, you may have seen the title of this next episode and thought, just like WhatsApp groups, the last thing I need is another podcast on AI.
00:00:13 Dan:
But we really tried to take a fresh approach in this.
00:00:16 Dan:
So if you are using AI, thinking about using AI, wondering how to use AI more, this will certainly help you.
00:00:22 Dan:
We're going to share quite a lot of the latest science around AI usage in organizations.
00:00:27 Dan:
But crucially, we're going to explore
00:00:30 Dan:
and help me to see how you can go beyond individual productivity into better group effectiveness, team effectiveness and actually even how you can connect better with other humans through using this artificial intelligence.
00:00:44 Dan:
Enjoy.
00:00:47 Dan:
Hello and welcome back to We Not Me, the podcast where we explore how humans connect to get stuff done together.
00:00:53 Dan:
I'm Dan Hammond.
00:00:54 Pia:
And I am Pia Lee.
00:00:55 Dan:
Pia, I have a question for you.
00:00:56 Pia:
Starter for 10.
00:00:58 Dan:
We're talking about AI today and my question for you is what's your P doom number?
00:01:02 Dan:
Do you know about this?
00:01:03 Pia:
Well tell me what that is so everyone knows what that.
00:01:05 Dan:
So this is the probability of doom, the P doom.
00:01:09 Pia:
Of doom.
00:01:10 Dan:
Which is what is your belief that the probability of AI destroying humanity?
00:01:16 Dan:
There'll be quite a few.
00:01:17 Dan:
recently talking about this, Evan Hubingen and people like that talking about this number.
00:01:22 Pia:
And certainly a number of the tech bros have been talking about slow it down.
00:01:26 Dan:
Yes, exactly.
00:01:28 Dan:
Cory Doctoroff has been onto it, Mr.
00:01:30 Dan:
Institutification.
00:01:31 Dan:
It's a difficult one to answer, isn't it?
00:01:33 Dan:
But apparently everyone's got a P.
00:01:34 Dan:
Doom number.
00:01:35 Dan:
Right, okay.
00:01:36 Pia:
So mine is.
00:01:39 Pia:
actually quite low.
00:01:41 Pia:
I would probably say 10%.
00:01:43 Pia:
So there is a chance.
00:01:45 Pia:
But to actually extinguish the whole of humanity takes quite a lot of doing.
00:01:51 Dan:
It does.
00:01:51 Pia:
You'd have to either do it all in one go
00:01:54 Pia:
Because if you did it bit by bit, the other humans, I think, would rally.
00:01:58 Pia:
If you asked me what the chances are of civil unrest, I'd probably say 60%, 70% of what's happening in France.
00:02:06 Dan:
Yeah, it's sort of short of doom.
00:02:07 Pia:
If you would say pain, I'd probably say 80%.
00:02:11 Pia:
But actually ending, because at the end of the day, we are nothing without humans.
00:02:17 Pia:
And I don't know whether that serves anyone, even with mal intent to have the whole place to themselves.
00:02:24 Dan:
Interesting.
00:02:24 Dan:
10% is quite a high number.
00:02:26 Dan:
That was the one that hit the press and sort of caused a wave of panic.
00:02:29 Dan:
But I agree with you.
00:02:30 Dan:
My observation of humanity, that sounds very pompous, doesn't it?
00:02:34 Dan:
does.
00:02:34 Dan:
But I'm me, so let's go for it.
00:02:36 Pia:
You stay there.
00:02:37 Pia:
You stay there in your little mount.
00:02:38 Dan:
Just stick in the pompous zone.
00:02:39 Dan:
And is that we are rubbish at foreseeing things that we're walking into.
00:02:45 Dan:
We create things like an environmental crisis and we just march towards it.
00:02:50 Dan:
We are rubbish at averting disaster in advance, but then when the time comes
00:02:54 Dan:
We somehow pull something out of a hat and swerve.
00:02:58 Dan:
Well, the environment is a tricky one because there could be a switch that flicks effectively when we're doomed.
00:03:03 Dan:
But if it doesn't, then we could actually save ourselves.
00:03:05 Dan:
But God, we've been marching towards it for 50 years.
00:03:08 Dan:
And I would hope the same would be with AI.
00:03:10 Pia:
And it's interesting.
00:03:11 Pia:
I've just read Sarah Wyn Williams' Careless People, which is her sort of expose on Facebook, Meta and those early days, but also leading right up till 2017, 2018.
00:03:24 Pia:
and just the total disregard for the impact of what they're doing, selling our data, trading it with anyone, all for profit.
00:03:33 Dan:
Yes.
00:03:34 Pia:
So there is an element where you go, gosh, if there's those people who have a vast amount of power.
00:03:40 Dan:
There is a bit of this, which is, this will be fine if the technology and governments are in good hands.
00:03:47 Dan:
Well, they're not.
00:03:48 Pia:
They're not.
00:03:49 Dan:
They have literally shown that they don't care about humans at all.
00:03:52 Dan:
So yeah, that's the real risk.
00:03:54 Dan:
I think
00:03:54 Dan:
Not AI itself, but who's in charge of it.
00:03:57 Dan:
I mean, the first book that I read about AI, really, was the one by Eric Schmidt.
00:04:01 Dan:
And Henry Kissinger wrote a chapter in there.
00:04:04 Dan:
And he likened it even then.
00:04:07 Dan:
I sort of thought, oh, this was a bit of a fuddy-duddy 60s Cold War belief.
00:04:11 Dan:
But he brought that thinking to that book.
00:04:13 Dan:
And at the time I thought, well, it's a bit dusty.
00:04:15 Dan:
But actually, it's so right.
00:04:17 Dan:
You know, we've invented this thing.
00:04:18 Dan:
It could be dangerous.
00:04:20 Dan:
And we're going to need some international work to sort of work out how this could
00:04:24 Dan:
overall serve humanity and amazingly that has worked in the nuclear world.
00:04:28 Dan:
It's phenomenal when you think about that.
00:04:30 Dan:
But we're going to need something like that.
00:04:32 Pia:
And I think it was only the potential alignment of what Facebook was doing.
00:04:39 Pia:
that could be perceived like the tobacco industry that might have caused them to go, we don't want to have that.
00:04:46 Dan:
Yeah, it's another good comparison, isn't it?
00:04:48 Dan:
They definitely know.
00:04:49 Dan:
And I must say, when Elon Musk says, let's slow AI down, the alarms go off, which is, okay, that's clearly not going to serve us.
00:04:56 Dan:
What's your motive behind that?
00:04:58 Dan:
Very suspicious.
00:04:59 Dan:
It's so complex.
00:05:00 Dan:
One of my daughters won't use AI because she says that this is a technology for the first time ever that could develop consciousness.
00:05:06 Dan:
She's worried about doom.
00:05:07 Dan:
She's worried about the environmental
00:05:09 Dan:
which by the way are overplayed, I think, looking at the data, but still there, But how do we see through this as a member of a team, in an organization, in a community?
00:05:18 Dan:
I think that's the point of this episode is to say, let's have a think about getting the sort of covey within the area of influence.
00:05:26 Dan:
What can I do with AI and how can I best make use of it and not cause any additional problems around me and in my team and my organization?
00:05:34 Dan:
I think it's good to sort of see our way through this.
00:05:36 Dan:
So let's dive into the topic.
00:05:37 Dan:
What are you seeing
00:05:39 Dan:
on that front.
00:05:39 Dan:
In your mind, what are some of the headline numbers or research that you've seen that sort of really shed light on this topic?
00:05:46 Pia:
I actually published something very recently on LinkedIn, which was an article from Korn Ferry called Help Humans Wanted, which was like the other side of
00:05:56 Pia:
they reported that 280 billion was spent in a year on AI adoption by non-tech companies, not just by technology companies.
00:06:05 Pia:
I think there is a slight panic of being left out, and yet we're not quite sure what we're getting and why.
00:06:13 Pia:
And then there was this interesting stat that 32% of organizations who eliminated roles had to rehire for those roles a year later.
00:06:23 Pia:
So I think there is some
00:06:25 Pia:
Sometimes because of shareholder pressure, because of tunnel vision around profitability, there's a sort of passing aside of the value of humans.
00:06:34 Pia:
And I think we're missing where the alignment can happen, where this technology can really eliminate a lot of the wasted time and effort and actually liberate the superpowers of a team and an organization.
00:06:49 Pia:
But we haven't transitioned.
00:06:51 Pia:
There are all these changes, but the humans have not quite transitioned yet to
00:06:56 Pia:
Yeah, you're right.
00:06:57 Dan:
That drive for profit is going to make savings very attractive, aren't they?
00:07:01 Dan:
And yeah, you're right.
00:07:02 Dan:
It's not a simple picture, is it?
00:07:04 Dan:
There are tasks that are incredibly dull, that can be automated and freed up.
00:07:08 Dan:
Of course, the knock on effect of that, if there are mass layoffs, then we've got a societal issue.
00:07:13 Dan:
But from a company or team point of view, that's a thing that can be useful.
00:07:16 Dan:
Also, I think this is another question, isn't it?
00:07:19 Dan:
Past technologies have come along and they look like they're labour saving.
00:07:23 Dan:
You know, if you think about the loom or
00:07:26 Dan:
the internet.
00:07:27 Dan:
Overall, unemployment's gone up and down.
00:07:29 Dan:
What actually happens when humans are freed up is we find something else for them to do.
00:07:33 Dan:
And that seems to be, certainly with the organisations we're working with, more the case.
00:07:37 Dan:
Yes, you can automate some very menial tasks, if you like, boring tasks, things that may not be all that fulfilling, but actually we tend to find stuff for humans to do.
00:07:47 Dan:
And that's the key thing.
00:07:48 Dan:
The question is, what are they going to do with that extra time?
00:07:51 Dan:
The data as well around AI adoption, of course, how does this work
00:07:56 Dan:
humans.
00:07:56 Dan:
I think it's very often seen as an individual thing.
00:07:59 Dan:
How do I become more productive?
00:08:01 Dan:
And we have a quite individualistic approach to this.
00:08:04 Dan:
But actually, if we zoom out to look at that team, there are some real positives.
00:08:08 Dan:
A person with AI is as effective as a team, but a team with AI, this comes from research from Procter and Gamble, a team with AI is three times more likely to find high quality solutions than one without AI.
00:08:22 Dan:
So it's really worth thinking about how you bring AI into your team as a team member so that you're really using it to the best while avoiding some of the potential downsides of fragmentation and individualization.
00:08:35 Pia:
I think that's because as a human, you should be
00:08:38 Pia:
discerning in your judgment.
00:08:40 Pia:
A leadership question is what are we trying to achieve here and why?
00:08:43 Pia:
There's a lot of low grade ways to use AI to get a quick answer, not have to do the hard work, make something look a lot prettier and better than it would have done.
00:08:54 Pia:
And some of those are valuable, but it's quite easy to get a lot of slop come out of it.
00:08:59 Pia:
And that doesn't add to your brand or actually doesn't add to the relationships that you have.
00:09:03 Pia:
So AI needs leading.
00:09:06 Pia:
and the adoption of it needs leading.
00:09:08 Pia:
You don't abstain your leadership to just have something that's easy.
00:09:12 Dan:
Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it?
00:09:15 Pia:
And makes life more effective or easier for you.
00:09:18 Pia:
That's a big leadership vacuum.
00:09:20 Dan:
I saw a headline just this morning, someone saying, please stop anthropomorphizing AI.
00:09:25 Dan:
So stop treating AI as a living thing.
00:09:28 Dan:
And I think, again, we need to be on two sides of that.
00:09:31 Dan:
I know the lovely Mrs.
00:09:32 Dan:
Hammond refers to her French friend Claude as he.
00:09:36 Dan:
the AI companies are trying to, it's worrying actually, trying to say, you should call it it, and that's fine.
00:09:42 Dan:
But I think also we need to imagine that it is someone on our team and how would we lead them, as you say.
00:09:47 Dan:
They've got capabilities, they've got downsides, there's got risks.
00:09:50 Dan:
So how do we actually consciously, deliberately, you know, it's about deliberate choices again, isn't it?
00:09:56 Dan:
So that comes down to in our leadership, we'll see how we're going to lead AI effectively in this situation.
00:10:02 Pia:
And with that, there's been a new article by HBR
00:10:05 Pia:
leadership mindset for AI adoption, which actually marries and aligns with the three Cs, clarity, climate, and competence, which is fantastic.
00:10:15 Pia:
And thanks, HBR.
00:10:16 Pia:
Very good.
00:10:17 Dan:
We like that a lot.
00:10:18 Dan:
These are very valid research.
00:10:20 Dan:
Stamp of authority.
00:10:22 Pia:
So they talk about clarity over certainty.
00:10:26 Pia:
And so we've had a lot of certainty in our systems and that's probably actually created behaviors where we want to control things.
00:10:34 Pia:
And actually we are in a world which is highly ambiguous and more free flowing, but we can decipher the clarity and create that.
00:10:43 Pia:
So that was one point.
00:10:45 Dan:
So interesting, by the way, just jumping in on that.
00:10:47 Dan:
I think that a lot of people confuse those two.
00:10:49 Dan:
It's just a brilliant article that.
00:10:51 Dan:
So we get
00:10:52 Dan:
clarity, but don't think you can have certainty.
00:10:54 Dan:
And I think people are seeking certainty.
00:10:56 Dan:
I mean, it's a demand of the brain, isn't it?
00:10:59 Dan:
Our limbic brain wants certainty.
00:11:01 Dan:
We're seeking that, but it's not there.
00:11:03 Dan:
But you can build clarity.
00:11:05 Dan:
So I think that's a great distinction.
00:11:06 Pia:
And then they talked about exploration over expertise.
00:11:11 Pia:
And again, I guess if you think about this from a hierarchical perspective, from a status perspective, that climate, whereas in actual fact, we're in a new territory.
00:11:22 Pia:
And how do we leverage with curiosity by exploring different ways?
00:11:26 Pia:
And how do we let go some of the ways that we've done?
00:11:29 Pia:
Now that's not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but that is that openness.
00:11:34 Pia:
Whereas if we feel a sense of fear, we will shut down and hold tight onto our expertise.
00:11:40 Pia:
And a bit like the Titanic, we'll sink with it really.
00:11:44 Pia:
It is a gargantuan shift in the workplace.
00:11:47 Pia:
However it works, it is huge.
00:11:49 Pia:
So we do have to ride that.
00:11:52 Pia:
wave and then go, okay, so what's open for me?
00:11:55 Pia:
So having that curiosity to really ask the right questions, to be open to things, to take a few seconds before giving you viewpoint, I think is really key and creates a safer environment for people to explore with it rather than not feel like they might potentially fail.
00:12:13 Dan:
And a reminder to listeners, we've said this many times on this podcast, being curious and exploring is not the same as saying, I'm curious and then making your opinion
00:12:22 Dan:
very much felt.
00:12:24 Pia:
That is gold.
00:12:26 Pia:
And then one of the last things they talked about was emotional insight over emotional control, which sort of falls out of that.
00:12:33 Pia:
Humans understand humans and a lot of the work that's been done is that that's the realization that however good agentic AI or AI and however you feel like it perceives you, it's not a human being.
00:12:46 Pia:
It can't read you in the same way.
00:12:48 Pia:
It's taking cues and that can be valuable, but it's not the human
00:12:52 Pia:
So those insights, those gut feelings, those sense, but you have to switch that on.
00:12:58 Pia:
You have to switch that on.
00:13:00 Pia:
And I think that sometimes is the danger of AI is we dial that down.
00:13:05 Pia:
We actually atrophy some of our own capability, our natural intuition.
00:13:11 Dan:
And I think there's science around that, isn't there?
00:13:13 Dan:
We've allowed ourselves to become dumber.
00:13:15 Dan:
And someone this week who'd been working with some students in a university, they'd used AI to build a prototype.
00:13:22 Dan:
And when asked about it, they didn't know what it was.
00:13:25 Dan:
And that reminded me of working with a few people around the place who use a huge AI adopter, super efficient, but I do get served up slop sometimes.
00:13:35 Dan:
I know it's from an AI, hasn't really been owned.
00:13:38 Dan:
There's no human in the loop.
00:13:41 Dan:
And this is too much for me to take on because it's been AI.
00:13:43 Dan:
I'm going to put it into an AI and tell me the summary.
00:13:47 Dan:
How have we come to this where I'm having to sort of translate, you are accountable for your output is the answer.
00:13:53 Dan:
And that human in the loop thing, I know there's challenges to that and it can lead to brain fry because you've got so much going on.
00:14:00 Dan:
You know, I've got multiple browsers doing different jobs at the same time, but ultimately
00:14:05 Dan:
responsible for that output.
00:14:07 Pia:
100%.
00:14:07 Pia:
If you look at the resurgence in vintage clothing, we do value going back to the things that we treasure.
00:14:13 Pia:
And I think humans are part of that.
00:14:15 Pia:
I think this looks really shiny and glossy and has real value.
00:14:20 Pia:
I'm not being negative about it, but it's the balance of it.
00:14:25 Pia:
It's the balance of how to utilize it and to be human and to value the humans in a human way and understand some of the things that are brought us to be human, not necessarily always looking at technology as the answer.
00:14:39 Dan:
Yeah, I think help seeking, as they call it, you know, going to other people, I think there's that piece of data you found about 74% of people now have, you know, will ask AI over asking, which they would have, where they would have asked a colleague before, I think it came out of Microsoft and LinkedIn, that research.
00:14:55 Dan:
Interestingly, I saw some other researchers that said that a lot of time that is because they don't want to waste their colleagues' time.
00:15:01 Dan:
So a lot of these things come from quite human foundations.
00:15:05 Dan:
It's not great.
00:15:05 Dan:
I can just ask AI and I can avoid someone, which could appear to be the favor.
00:15:10 Dan:
Actually, quite often it's this will save them me wasting their time.
00:15:13 Dan:
And I think, again, being really deliberate about what side of that line you go.
00:15:17 Dan:
You can be individually efficient, but is this a good time to have a conversation and make use of AI A-team sport?
00:15:23 Dan:
You know, have the three of you involved
00:15:25 Dan:
conversation and in sharing ideas rather than just cutting yourself off.
00:15:29 Dan:
It's a really deliberate choice.
00:15:30 Dan:
The other thing that I spotted in preparation for this was again coming out of that Procter and Gamble research, which is really encouraging and worth thinking about is that we've seen this actually, Pier, in our use of AI in creating clarity on a page.
00:15:45 Dan:
So we have this AI tool that helps to gather virtual post-it notes, cluster, wordsmith, and it's a fantastically efficient tool for getting to a
00:15:55 Dan:
clarity document.
00:15:56 Dan:
What we've observed there is feedback from our clients using it that it's really helped to be a neutral facilitator and people get on the same page much faster because they feel like AI is just neutral.
00:16:08 Dan:
And actually the P&G research said that teams using AI found better harmony between commercial and R&D.
00:16:15 Dan:
So these two sides came together much better through using AI as a sort of neutral teammate.
00:16:21 Dan:
So I think these things are really positive.
00:16:23 Dan:
So again, being really deliberate about it.
00:16:25 Dan:
get huge benefits out of it as a team and not allow it to individualize you or to have you sitting on your own just serving up slop to everyone else.
00:16:36 Pia:
And the danger is, and we've talked about this before on the podcast, is that teams aren't really teams at all.
00:16:41 Pia:
They're groups of individuals.
00:16:43 Pia:
And so I think this actually amplifies that fragmentation and that construct of being individuals.
00:16:50 Pia:
And so everybody is scuttling away getting information to prove their value in that group as an individual and achieve their own objectives.
00:16:59 Pia:
And again, that takes leadership.
00:17:01 Pia:
You need a leader to be able to go in and go, we need to create a space where
00:17:05 Pia:
is safe and this is our collective goal of what we're trying to achieve.
00:17:09 Pia:
Because that brings the team together and helps them to really align their efforts towards a bigger objective that they're trying to achieve, not just the little things.
00:17:19 Pia:
We can become incredibly tactical and overwhelmed by the tactical and we lose sight of the bigger picture that we're trying to create, which is often the thing that gives us joy in work because we're making a difference.
00:17:33 Pia:
So again, that's a leadership prerogative
00:17:35 Pia:
That's important for leaders to really highlight that and to be aware, they call it lone wolf syndrome, knowledge fragmentation, all of these things.
00:17:45 Pia:
If that goes unchecked, that becomes workplace loneliness and low engagement.
00:17:51 Pia:
So to bring the joy back is the collaboration piece and finding the right balance of how to bring that in.
00:17:57 Dan:
Yeah, it's again comes down to actually that sort of ability to sort of balance, really, just be really deliberate.
00:18:05 Dan:
I think our old colleague Andy used to say, do whatever you want, but know what you're doing.
00:18:09 Dan:
I think that probably applies here.
00:18:11 Dan:
That's probably the biggest danger is that we become that company of 1.
00:18:15 Dan:
And we're under pressure in our organizations to deliver individually still.
00:18:19 Dan:
So we've got to really swim upstream a little to be a human connected person that's successful in that world.
00:18:27 Pia:
So I guess, where do we leave?
00:18:29 Pia:
leaders in this conversation?
00:18:31 Pia:
What have they got to be thinking about?
00:18:33 Pia:
Because again, the HBR talked about this different level of leadership that's required and different mindset.
00:18:40 Pia:
And they talked about the ability to pause and I guess to just hold not the silence, but just to really see what's going on.
00:18:49 Pia:
So when they're with the team, they're with individuals, groups of people that they're able to do that, it actually speaks a lot to something.
00:18:56 Pia:
Gosh, we don't hear as much these days, emotional intelligence, the Goldman work.
00:19:01 Dan:
Yeah, true.
00:19:01 Pia:
What's below the surface, perceiving what's happening, not taking everything at face value.
00:19:07 Pia:
And then that ability to be able to have that flexibility, to have that exploration, have the ability to pivot, and then finally to practice, try things.
00:19:18 Pia:
And to feel okay, to have a more agile mindset, let's give this a go.
00:19:23 Pia:
Let's try this, see what we can quickly learn, adjust as we learn and bring that.
00:19:29 Pia:
Because what we cannot assure anyone is that the world is going to be stable for the next 10, 15, 20 years and everything's going to be okay.
00:19:38 Pia:
It's actually going to feel a little bit rocky and uncomfortable probably for a while while we're going through this big change and this big shift in our lives.
00:19:49 Pia:
And so we do need to be really present, actually, really present as leaders as to what's going on and not sort of disassociated by the technology.
00:19:59 Pia:
We've got to let the technology actually connect us in a really conscious way.
00:20:04 Dan:
Yes, that's the key.
00:20:05 Dan:
You use the word we a lot through that.
00:20:07 Dan:
I think that's at the heart of this is not allowing this to isolate us.
00:20:11 Dan:
I do think zooming out that this is even more a time where leaders need to look at their whole selves
00:20:18 Dan:
as well.
00:20:19 Dan:
are you sleeping well, eating well, exercising?
00:20:24 Dan:
Do you have hobbies outside work?
00:20:26 Dan:
Do you connect with others?
00:20:27 Dan:
Do you have a little network of people?
00:20:28 Dan:
Just check your emotional health because this, you can be drawn into an individualized world of brain fry.
00:20:35 Dan:
You need something to counterbalance that.
00:20:37 Dan:
So just look at the whole as well, I think, just to stay healthy.
00:20:40 Dan:
It's certainly something I encourage my children to sort of keep an eye on.
00:20:44 Dan:
It's my sort of play the guitar mantra.
00:20:46 Dan:
You know, that could be cooking, could be anything,
00:20:48 Dan:
Just making sure that you've got that cultural and social stuff going on in your life as well.
00:20:52 Dan:
Because it's going to be a rocky rd, not in the sense of the chocolate.
00:20:57 Dan:
Chocolate, sadly.
00:20:58 Dan:
It's going to be the other kind of rocky rd.
00:20:59 Dan:
But again, there could be much joy ahead if we play this right.
00:21:03 Dan:
And we just hope for the best with those tech pros.
00:21:06 Dan:
There's not much we can do about them, honestly.
00:21:08 Dan:
All we can do is just see what we can do around us.
00:21:11 Dan:
And that's about being as human as possible, as you say, being a present leader.
00:21:15 Pia:
Absolutely.
00:21:15 Pia:
And all we can do is talk about it like this conversation.
00:21:18 Dan:
Rather blather away, exactly.
00:21:19 Pia:
And that's why we're really passionate about it.
00:21:21 Pia:
Not because we want to be on our soapboxes, but because actually the connection of humans is absolutely fundamental to who we all are.
00:21:28 Pia:
And we sometimes have to remind ourselves in the blur of technology that that's a core element.
00:21:33 Pia:
It's not an either or, but it's an important and.
00:21:37 Dan:
And we've seen in our own team how the adoption of Claude code and other AI tools in our development team has brought them together and accelerated them, we estimate, by a factor of 6.
00:21:48 Dan:
And they have really come together around this.
00:21:51 Dan:
Like a sort of this is a new skill, this is a new thing we can share.
00:21:55 Dan:
And it's not de-skilling them, it's re-skilling them.
00:21:58 Dan:
It's an inspirational story, really.
00:22:00 Dan:
And that's really where we want to go rather than how can I just dehumanize myself and get something else to do my job for me.
00:22:06 Dan:
So that's the wrong fork to take on the road, I think.
00:22:09 Dan:
Wonderful.
00:22:10 Dan:
I'm hoping the next episode will be about AI adoption in organizations, where we'll have a nice panel.
00:22:15 Dan:
So we'll pick this up again and get into the actual practicality.
00:22:19 Dan:
How do you get this to happen across an organization?
00:22:21 Dan:
But that is it for this episode.
00:22:23 Dan:
Check out the show notes for useful links.
00:22:25 Dan:
And if you've enjoyed the show, please do share it with someone else.
00:22:28 Dan:
We're not being brought to you by Squadify, helping organizations to transform through teams.
00:22:32 Dan:
Thank you so much for listening.
00:22:33 Dan:
It's goodbye from me.
00:22:35 Pia:
And it's goodbye from me.